jazeera's ali velshi joined by al jazeera morgan radford who new nelson mandela on a personal level, ali? >> yeah, you can hear the cheering at the end of moon's comments and it's more somber in there at moments, outside people are still streaming in and starting to become a trickle and morgan is here with me and morgan knows the family. today is not the family event, the family funeral will be on sunday in the mandela home. but the family is here and this is the way for the rest of the world who really thinks of themselves in many ways as nelson mandela's family to celebrate. >> they call him father of the nation and we heard the youngest
of the three young men born to mandela's only son and he spoke about the legacy his grandfather left and afterwards that cut the cameras to president obama and the entire stadium erupted and immediately after they sowed zuma and the stadium booed. >> this is a complication of the post mandela era. for all the problems in south africa citing and there are many and no economic equality and people come in and said nelson mandela dismantled apartheid and are pleased about that but it's tough governing in africa. >> that is where his legacy can be a little more controversial and south africaens feel he sold the country to foreign investors to bring them out of the post apartheid era. >> you are here to celebrate. >> the death of nelson mandela. >> we were talking about the economy in south africa, it has
not gone as far as people would have liked but you still think that mandela, that is okay, we are on tv so don't call your friends just yet. you go celebrate and we will talk in a little bit. >> thank all the people of the world by coming to our country and we are so grateful for that even if they have come today to celebrate this day with us, we are so grateful, and mr. mandela our father was in prison for 27 years. we are so grateful for the world and we are celebrating but the mediva rest in peace. >> thank you, sir, this is has been happening all day by the way, this is what the spirit of the event is. you were saying this is a dichotomy saying he fought for freedom and we needed democracy and freedom and got that but dot, dot, dot they still struggle here. >> i was speaking to a woman on
the plane coming over here and she said mandela sold us out and i said what do you mean, he sold some of the white people out. you have an interesting remembrance of his legacy and some people are celebrating it and you see most of the nation is and sometimes they say remember and sometimes the jury is not sold on the legacy. >> one thing i heard from blacks and whites today is what south africa didn't have is a civil war and didn't have that significant blood shed and didn't have the call for revenge and in the new anc there are members and some younger who still want that, they want to take property back from whites in country and some are worried with mandela being gone less of a moderation of views. >> that is why he is a controversial figure and represents the future of anc and you see streets on the stadium and their names are being changed and some people who had
english names on the streets that live for years and years are seeing the change happen and for some it's unsettling. >> this is a celebration and seeing more sadness now than you had earlier but it's here and hearing cheering in the background and we will be out here and we will keep on talking to people and we will send you back there in a few minutes. >> thank you, appreciate it, thank you very much. let's talk about what ali raised and morgan raised which is talking about south africa moving forward and also looking back as well. and you wanted to take issue with this idea of a civil war, right, in your mind, proud south african, black south african, there was a moment when you are here to raise your hand and say there was a civil war in our country, explain that. >> well, i mean, when you think of the amount of blood that was shed for our freedom, then one
redefines what civil war is. it was never declared a civil war but there was a fight with the ordinary person the street and the government, with the government using war equipment, those huge machinery they would drive with into the black township, run over houses, flatten houses, shoot at people and unleash violence against people. i was a student at the university and they would come and vicious dogs in the hold they were holding. >> you saw this. >> i saw it, i witnessed it. >> you were there. >> i have scars of it from all those and there was civil war in south africa and i smelled tear gas and if there was though war why would you smell tear gas, i smelled tear gas and we lost people and people were locked up and people locked the country
and i had numerous cousins who left the country and joined the struggle out there. there has been war in south africa and we still have to come to terms with that with our history to really put the facts on the table. >> does that need to happen? you think there needs to be a declaration of the facts. >> our history has to include that. we should not keep fooling ourselves and towing the party line saying we achieved the freedom without blood shed. >> wasn't a lot of that aired during the truth and reconciliation period? >> yeah, but the truth and reconciliation commission focused on a very narrow period of time in the history of south africa and focused from 1960-1990. and i think just to develop the whole idea, it's not so much that we were at war, it was the fact that there was state oppression, a form of state
terrorism in which the government tried to instill fear into the black population. >> i want to get back to the ceremony here because we are hearing the songs of the prayer for africa. earlier we heard nobody is like nelson mandela and sort of the importance of song in the mourning and celebration. >> and is one of our soprano in south africa and she is an opra singer and i think we should listen to that. ♪ ♪ to the loving god ♪
in fact, you saw her coming up, to the podium and zuma will be speaking and by way of history she was a strong antiapartheid activist and under ground member of the national congress and currently dr. zuma is the chair woman of the african commission, in 2012 she was the first woman to lead the commission and appointed minister of health during nelson mandela cabinet in 1994 and during her tenure she desegregated the health system and introduced access to free basic healthcare. she was appointed minister of foreign affairs by the president in 1999 and in that role she promoted peace, human rights and more collective development for the continent and taken to the stage moments ago and let's listen in to her tribute to her former boss and the former president. >> i sent you the program
director, zuma, your majesty and national dignatory, members of the nation and committee of the nc and its league, members of the south african government and fellow mourners. from north to south, from east central and west, africa is in mourning, together with the rest of the world for the loss of its greatest. at the same time they are
celebrating the life of the fighter and then the leader of the south african people as a whole, leader of the african people and the rest of the worldment we stand proud of you, mediva, who represents the best african values, of freedom, solidarity, service to the people, equality, sacrifice, and defend of the human dignity. throughout his life he lived with values and struggle, always willing to serve, prepared to listen and respect our views including those that are different from his. his humanity and compassion and
commitment and courage and openness meant that working and engaging with him or listening to him, talking to him was always a lesson. at the same time he could be standing his ground especially when it came to the defense of the oppressed and the poor. mediva is part of the ranks of the south africa heros and to the equality and justice remains stead fast throughout their lives. as one of the young militants of the anc youth league, in 1944,
he said he understood that south africa's struggle were closely linked to struggles of the oppressed people across africa and indeed the world. and he said to the young youth league in 1951 at their congress, history is on the side of the oppressed. the growing african movement, the increasing number of independent african countries and the support and solidarity of the struggles of those still under oppression were a source of inspiration to him and his peers. it was this solidarity that mediva counted on when he was sent by the anc in 1962 for a
part of south africa's end of the struggle. he is compared across the continent. and many others. wherever he went on our continent doors were opened. and he got military training and got support for the struggle. when the apartheid regime with was our organization and with our leaders our continent became home to freedom fighters from across southern africa. and of course a number of those countries became targets from
the regime. and thus when mediva took his seat as the first democratic and nonracial president of south africa, the summit of head of state and government. >> this is live coverage of nelson mandela's memorial service from johannesburg, we will take a quick break and we will be back with much more. ♪
and welcome back to al jazeera's coverage of the memorial service, for nelson mandela, great to be here with you but want to take a moment and introduce our guests who have been terrific with us over the last couple hours and what a pleasure to have you with us d and. >> maybe i should do this. >> hang on. better? >> better. >> and this is the assistance professor at columbia university and pleasure to have you here and a professor of higher education and new york university, what are your thoughts on the memorial service so far, you two are getting a little restless watching which is reflective of what we are hearing. >> south africans. >> and we are hearing and as
speakers are speaking we are hearing singing going on in the background and with i reminds us to talk about the importance of music not only to the ceremony but to south african society. >> and when are we going to sing? i want to sing. >> we will by the end. >> you can leave the singing. i don't have a singing voice. >> well, you don't have to have one, you just sing. the song and lyrics come out is what is important. and music is very important. and as a coach and one of the documents and saying in the movie and he was there talking about, well, you know, when we cry we sing, when we go to war we sing, those traditional wars and this is the singing and he
was fine with it and said the enemy knows we are coming because we are not creeping on them, they are not silent. which can work very well because it intimidates them and you can be hundreds and coming down to really get you. >> that is such an interesting nugget of history. i don't want to bring the singing down but there is an out pouring of feeling and the audience is not shy and we heard several boos and talking about zuma we heard booing and when barack obama came on we heard cheers and what is becoming evident in the service is that surprising to you? >> no because south africans are thinking ahead to the next election and it's time to make their own predictions using the voices and stomping their feet
and reacting to some of the veteran, people who served in several ministries and zuma who was speaking served as a minister to mandela and the crowd is going come on, you are a veteran. >> you are never more unpopular as a politician than you are the day after you assume office. >> right, yes. >> and you are never more popular than the day you leave, right? >> so president obama cannot show up at yankee stadium in new york and throw out the first pitch and not get booed. >> he gets booed. >> really, there was a portion of the crowd today and given out it is the political debate is in the country, i dare say the president couldn't go to a washington redskins game or new york, it's new york, right, and not get some boos. >> there would be some boos. but even looking at the line up of the official program, i mean,
that has to be quite political as some of the south african leaders we have seen have long histories in government. who decided who was going to speak and how political is that? >> i think it's very political. there are a lot of people who are missing and we were talking earlier for example that he was instrumental in the transformation is absent. i don't think he is in the box. he wasn't invited at all. and a businessman and a multi millionaire and not a politician any more is the mc. so that was also very political decision to ask him to speak. >> he had a very important role. >> yes. >> during the struggle and in those years. immediately after nelson mandela was released from prison, correct? >> yes, one of the negotiators and he was there when the constitution was instituted in south africa and the anc power
broker as it were with the negotiations. >> and i also think what is seen today is government, official government and anc and bringing the two together and selecting who plays a role where and how. so key leaders in anc as well as key leaders in government so that makes it really difficult, to some extent for me where the program is shot. >> yes. >> because you cannot really have everybody be represented on this so people who played a role in mediva's past and people who are playing a role now >> let's set up the next moment because it's going to be one of the moments we remember from the ceremony for years to come, you see the shot there of president obama arriving. >> yes. >> we are moments away from the first black president of the united states remembering,
ulogizing the first black president of south africa. think about that for a moment. let's listen to more of the music and we believe that either the president will make his remarks at the conclusion of the music as the song end or will be introduced there after, but just so that we don't miss the moment, let's take you back. ♪ ♪ the heart and soul ♪ everybody listen ♪ come on ♪ let me hear you say ♪ no matter ♪ no matter what ♪ they come away ♪ my life is in your hands ♪ with jesus ♪ no matter ♪ no matter what
♪ may come ♪ i believe ♪ ♪ with your tested trials ♪ they seem to get you down ♪ come on ♪ for your friends and love ♪ are no where to be found ♪ remember ♪ remember ♪ they are a friend ♪ can i get a witness over here ♪ ♪ can i get a witness ♪ over there ♪ can i get a witness ♪ backup there ♪ get your hands up there ♪ come on ♪ come on
♪ come on ♪ mediva ♪ let me hear you say ♪ no matter ♪ no matter ♪ my life is in your hands ♪ ♪ come on ♪ i know i can make it ♪ i know ♪ no matter ♪ no matter what ♪ my life ♪ my life is in your hands ♪ with jesus ♪ can i get a witness ♪ up in here. >> i want to talk about the moments, there are a couple moments there with president obama shaking hands with the other world leaders that are
there and some of them controversial i might add but castro of cuba and seeing him shake hands with castro and you would not find a cast of characters speaking on the same stage at any event that i can remember in resent memory. >> look at this. this is the gospel artist. gospel, r and b, kurt franklin and he has been stirring this crowd up. >> they love him. >> running the pitch, right, running the pitch. and we were just talking about this, the importance of music and now the crowd is fully engaged. let's listen in. >> and franklin from the united states. we will now like to welcome to
to graca machel and the mandela family, to president zuma and members of the government, to heads of states and government, past and present, distinguished guests, it is a singular honor to be with you today, to celebrate a life like no other. to the people of south africa. [cheers] people of every race and every walk of life, the world thanks you for sharing nelson mandela with us, his struggle was your
struggle. his triumph was your triumph. your dignity and your hope mount expression in his life and your freedom, your democracy with his cherished legacy, it is hard to ulogize any man, to capture in words not just the facts and the dates that make a life, but the essential truth of a person, the private joys and sorrows, the quiet moments and unique qualities that iluminate someone's soul and how to do a giant of history and moved a nation towards justice and in the process moved millions
around the world. born during world war i, fired from the corridors of power and raised with cattle and pride, mediva would emerge as the last great liberator of the 20th century and like gandhi he would lead a resistance movement, a movement that at its start had little prospect for success. like dr. king, he would give voice to the claims of the oppressed and the moral necessity of racial justice. he would endure a brutal imprisonment that began in the time of kennedy and krucheff and reach the final days of the cold war and emerge from prison and
like abraham lincoln hold the country together when it threatened to break apart and like the founding fathers he would have a constitutional order to preserve freedom for future generations. a commitment to democracy and rule of law, ratified by his election and willingness to step down from power only after one term. given the sweet of his life, the scope of his accomplishments, the adoration that he earned and it's tempting to remember nelson mandela as an icon and smiling and serene, detached from the affairs of men but mediva himself strongly resisted such a
lifeless fortress. [cheers] instead, mediva insisted on sharing with us his doubts and his fears, his miss calculations, along with his victories. i am not a saint he said unless you think of a saint as an sinner who keeps on trying. and that is precisely because he could admit to imperfection and he could be so full of good humor and even mischeif and the burdens he carried that we loved him so and he was not a bus made of marble, he was flesh and
blood and father and friend and that is why we learned so much from him and that is why we can learn from him still, for nothing he achieved was inevitable in the arc of his life we see a man who earned his place in history through struggle and shroodness and persistence and faith and tells us what is possible in the pages of history books but our own lives as well. mandela showed us the power of action of taking risks on behalf of our ideals. perhaps mandela was right that he inherited a proud rebelliousness, a stubborn sense of fairness from his father and we know he shared with millions of black and colored south
africans the anger born of a thousand slights and a thousand unremembered moments, a desire to fight the system that imprisoned my people he said. but like other early giants at the anc, mediva disciplined his anger and channelled his desire to fight into organizations and platforms and strategies for action so men and women could stand up for their god-given dignity. more over he accepted the consequences of his actions knowing that standing up to powerful interests and injustice carries a price.
i have fought against white domination and fought against black domination. [cheers] i cherished the idea of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and equal opportunities, it's an ideal which i hope to live for and to achieve, but if need be it is an ideal for which i am prepared to die. [cheers] mandela taught us the power of action but he also taught us the power of ideas. the importance of reason and arguments, the need to study not only those who you agree with but also those who you don't agree with. he understood that ideas could not be contained by prison walls or extinguished by a sniper's
bullet. he turned his trial into an indictment of apartheid because of his eloquent and passion and also because of his training as an advocate. he used decades of prison to sharpen his arguments but also to spread his thirst for knowledge to others in the movement. and he learned the language and the customs of his op pressers so that one day he could better convey to them how their own freedom depends upon his. [cheer [cheers] mandela demonstrated that action and ideas are not enough. no matter how right they must also be chiseled in the law and institutions. he was practical. testing his beliefs against the hard surface of circumstance and
history. on core principles he was unyielding which is way he could rebuff offers of unconditional release reminding the apartheid regime that prisoners cannot enter into contracts. but as he showed in painstaking negotiations to transfer power and draft new laws, he was not afraid to compromise for the sake of a larger goal. and because he was not only a leader of a movement but a skillful politician, the constitution that emerged was worthy of this multi racial democracy, true to his vision of laws that protect minority as well as majority rights and the precious freedoms of every south african. and finally mandela understood the ties that bind the human spirit. there is a word in south africa
rabunto. [cheers] a word that captures mandela's greatest gifts, his recognition that we are all bound together in ways that are invisible to the eye. that there is a oneness to humanity. that we achieve ourselves by sharing ourselves with others and caring for those around us. we can never know how much of this sense was innate in him or how much was shaped in a dark and solitary cell. but we remember the gestures, large and small, introducing as jailers, as honored guests at his inauguration, taking a pitch in a spring black uniform, turning his family's heart break
into a call to confront hiv aids, that revealed the depths of his empathy and his understanding. he not only embodied him he taught millions to find that truth within themselves. and it took a man like mediva to free not just the prisoners but the jailer as well. [cheers] to show that you must trust others so that they may trust you. to teach that reconciliation is not the past but a means of confronting it with inclusion and generosity and truth. he changed laws. but he also changed hearts. for the people of south africa, for those he inspired around the
globe, mediva's passing is rightly a time of mourning and a time to celebrate an heroic life and it should prompt in all of us a time for self reflection, with honesty, regardless of our station or our circumstance we must ask how well have i applied his lessons in my own life? it's a question i ask myself. as a man and as a president. we know that like south africa the united states had to overcome racial subrogation as was true here, it took sacrifice, the sacrifice of countless people, known and unknown, to see the dawn of the new day.
michelle and i are beneficiaries of that struggle. [cheers] but in america and in south africa and in countries all around the globe we cannot allow our progress to cloud the fact that our work is not yet done. the struggles that follow the victory of formal equality for universal franchise may not be as filled with drama and moral clarity as those that came before but they are no less important. for around the world today we still see children suffering from hunger and disease. we still see run-down schools. we still see young people without prospects for the future. around the world today men and women are still in prison for their political beliefs and are still persecuted for what they look like and how they worship
and who they love, that is happening today. [cheers] and so we too must act on behalf of justice. we too must act on behalf of peace. there are too many people who happily embrace mediva's legacy of racial reconciliation but passionately resist even modest reforms. and they would challenge chronic poverty and growing inequality. there are too many leaders who claim solidarity with mediva's struggle for freedom but do not tolerate the sense from their own people. [cheers] and there are too many of us, too many of us on the sidelines,
comfortable when our voices must be heard. the questions we face today, how to promote equality and justice, how to uphold freedom and human rights, how to end conflict and sectarian war, these things do not have easy answers. but there were no easy answers in front of that child born in world war i. nelson mandela reminds us that it always seems impossible until it is done. south africa shows that true. south africa shows we can change, that we can choose a world defined not by our differences but by our common hopes, we can choose a world defined not by conflict but by peace and justice and
opportunity. we will never see the likes of nelson mandela again. but let me say to the young people of africa and the young people around the world, you too can make his life's work your own. over 30 years ago while still a student i learned of nelson mandela and the struggles taking place in this beautiful land and it stirred something in me. it woke me up to my responsibilities, to others and to myself and it set me out on an improbable journey that sends me here today. and i will always fall short of
mediva's example, he makes me want to be a better man. he speaks to what is best inside us. after this great liberator is l laid to rest and when we return to our cities and villages and rejoin our daily routines, let us search for his strength. let us search for his largeness of spirit, somewhere inside of ourselves and when the night grows dark, when injustice weighs heavy on our hearts, when our best laid plans seem beyond our reach, let us think of mediva and the words that brought him comfort within the four walls of his cell. it matters not how straight the
gate, how charged the punishment the scroll, i am the master of my fate, i am the captain of my soul. what a magnificent soul it was. we will miss him deeply. may god bless the memory of nelson mandela. may god bless the people of south africa. [cheers] the president of the united states of america, barack obama. euologizing and the first president and the first south african black president and they
welcomed mr. obama, calling him the son of african soil. and the fact that we are americans aside, so far he has been clearly the superstar of this. he talked about mandela the man, not the disembodied icon, it was a moving speech and a historical moment. >> and let me join you on this and he looked rested and it's a long flight but it's airforce one and all creature comforts on airforce one and looked great and looked in total control. the speech started out i thought in kind of a workman like fashion and then there is the moment. you start the speeches and start slow and you build and then it started to hit its stride. at the time of self reflection that this, right, this is a moment for self reflection for everyone. and then there was the line about applying the lessons that
everyone including the president of the united states, time to reflect on whether i am applying the lessons of nelson mandela's life in my life. and from that moment on i thought the speech started to pick up momentum and started to soar a bit, reflections? >> i thought he was really great in personalizing it and not making it a speech, an official or so, but more of like mandela means to him personally and what he could mean to other people. and you could feel that connection. >> he wanted to be a better man. >> yes. yes. you could feel that change, the pace changing and reflection, deeper reflection that he is trying to also put a message across to the younger people when you go back and all that
try to find the spirit. >> and maybe even beyond that. i have been reflecting in the last few days about the world and what is happening in the middle east and syria and central african republic and thinking where is the next mandela or, gandhi and for me it was just as this moral compass and there is that profound loss that the world has lost a great moral compass despite the feelings and the contradictions in mandela's life who is there to take his place? >> you can hear it in barack obama's speech, the sense of powerlessness in some ways, that he feels he has not measured up to the legacy of mandela. i mean. >> and won't. >> yeah, yeah, but i think what was also stirring about the speech is he directly addressed the south african people. so he wasn't just speaking or sending messages from the american people. he was speaking as a human
being, as a man, saying i'm addressing you about your loss and talking to you directly. and i think the crowd responded and reciprocated that love, that warmth that he expressed for the south african people. >> and stephanie you really sort of opened i -- it up there and talking about the conflicts in the region and you are talking about mali and still real problems in mali in spite of the french intervention and drc and central african republic and egypt and the idea it will take this next generation of young people, going back to the villages and going back to their towns and their township and providence and it will take the generation of young people and in south africa the born frees to lead the country into a better and brighter future with
elections next year. >> yeah. >> and do you know what with africa, it's the question about where is the next nelson mandela going to come from. one of the things i find really disheartening is there is this prize, an award that is supposed to be given to presidents that have said farewell in the countries and stepped down on the first term or so, i have forgotten the name of the award. and for the last three or four terms nobody has won it. africa, the big continent, nobody, when i read about that that nobody qualified for that, that is really, really sad. so we hope that the part of mandela and the born frees are just enjoying the honeymoon and will be about to pick up the
for fighting the dictatorship in the 1970s and as a candidate she was the first woman elected to the presidency in brazil and hand picked by former president desilva and she was chief of staff and energy and in that role she helped make the country one of the world's leaders in alternative energy and we want to go back to johannesburg to listen to her speech. >> apartheid defeated by mandela and the south african people was the most elaborate and cruel form of social and political inequality of modern times. the leader now mandela.
entering prison and suffering. for the enlightened strength and the determination that he showed in his fight. for his deep commitment to justice and peace. above all for his moral and ethical superiority. he was able to turn the quest for truth and forgiveness into the pillar of national reconciliation and the building of a new south africa.
for his beloved african continent but all who seek freedom, social justice and world peace. >> like the south africans who mourn mandiva, we, the before stillian nation proudly carry african blood in our veins and we, too, mourn and celebrate the example of this great leader, who belongs to the pantheon of humankind.
>> the brazilian government and people bow down before the memory of nelson mandela. >> i would like to convey to family members, the president and all south africans, our deepest feelings of pain and sorrow. long live mandela forever! >> thank you very much from brazil, the land that welcomes all of us to the world cup.
we now call upon our next speaker, who is the vice president of china. >> so, what you're hearing basically is the introduction to the next leader, who's the vice president of china. we were just talking about how interesting it is, how they chose which world leaders would speak. some of them, for me, stand out particularly, the person from china and cuba, just because you think of nelson mandela as this freedom fighter and cuba and china are places that continue to jail political disdentist regularly. do you have insight on how these leaders were chosen? >> i would think they were leaders of countries that once had a very close association with the african national
congress. i think they are trying very hard not to count on contemporary politics on who is going to speak and they avoid the controversies by having the long standing allies of the movement. >> but you're missing russia. you're missing the president of russia. >> yes. >> you've got the other brick nations, bricks represented, but you don't have... >> and u.s.a. wasn't an ally, so i think they have picked on economy powers to some extent, so the future attempts of symbolically extending that to old friends. they had a balance both, the allies and power, so cuba, u.s.a. fall in that particular place. >> let's head to del walters.
he has more information about the chinese vice president. >> stephanie, he recently became vice president of china back in march. he is going as the special envoy. he was the president of the youth league of china. he was in education and a professor. we take you back now to johannesburg to listen to his remarks. >> the founding father of the new south africa would backers of strenuous he was, he led the people of south africa to victory in the fight against apartheid, making historic contribution to the birth of the rainbow nation and laying a solid foundation for the long term growth of his country.
>> mr. mandela was a household name in china as far as the founding father of relations, he committed himself to china-south africa friendship and cooperation with great passion. the chinese people with will always cherish the memory of his important contribution to friendship and china-africa relations.
>> we are deeply saddened by the loss of such a great friend. at the same time, we are hardened to see that the course mr. mandela has started will be carried forward. the african people have made great achievements in building their nation as a major emerging country. africa is playing a constructive role on the international stage and upholding the legitimate interest of developing countries.
>> you're continuing to watch live coverage of the memorial service for nelson mandela, a parade of word leaders speaking about him now. we're going to cut in and speak to a guest about south africa's economy. it's the largest in south africa. there's still a lot of barriers to economic equality that in country. here to help us understand those financial disparities is david rice from new york university's center for global affairs. good morning, thanks for joining us, professor rice. nelson mandela served one term from 1994 to 1999. in many ways, it's not a lot of time to put in place and execute social and economic patrols. where did we see him succeed during that period in terms the of building south africa's economy? >> as you know, south africa was
under international sanctions for many years because of apartheid. once it was ended and president mandela elected, the international community responded, foreign investors returned and economy grew rapidly. it is still the largest economy on the continent, but they've had some real challenges primarily due to labor unrest and a shrinking european economy, which is where most of their exports end up. >> professor, what we're talking about is a real wealth gap, income, inequality and there is a sense for many in south africa that the promise of a better economic future has not been realized by enough south africans. >> this is a very critical issue, and despite the great celebration of president mandela's life and the legacy that he leaves, many africans have to be waking up and asking
themselves are they truly better off economically and socially than they were in the years during his presidency and in the years after. president obama made a very good speech, and there's a phrase he used at the beginning, which he said mandela strived toward justice. i think that was a very subtle way of saying south africa has not even come close to achieving justice, just as it took a big step towards it, but it's still a long way from attaining it, especially from an economic and social standpoint. >> given the economic sanctions and pressures that mandela took over when he became president, do we have any models that can project how long it will take for their to be more income equality in africa? >> i don't think there is a model, because africa emerged as a very divided country not that long ago. the issue really is africa is an
export-driven economy, 60% of their economy is due to the mining sector, the most of which is exported to the world and it's no accident that you see some of the most important economic actors of africa playing a prominent role in this memorial. these are the future trading partners of africa. it's not going to be europe as much as brazil, india and china. i think their role here exemplifies that. >> professor, this is really a critical moment. i was in the middle east at a time the mining strikes were going on in the summer of the year. there was disheartening to see. it really was disheartening to see. we saw miners being show and killed. we saw a very uneven response
from the south african leadership. these were miners fighting for what they thought was fair, for rights, for a larger piece of africa's economic pie, and for many in the world, what they saw as a response was a heavy-handed approach from the government. >> that's right. there's talk about africa being -- hosting 25% unemployment right now. that number among the youth is 50%. this is a ticking time bomb. unless people see real progress toward economic equality and about her sense of their leadership, you heard people booing president zuma, certain ministers in his administration, i think people are frustrated, and once the celebrations are over, south africa needs to ask
who are the next leaders we deserve, where is the next mandela. when you look around the continent, there just aren't enough strong leaders emerging, and with south africa itself with young people facing unemployment. >> 25% of unemployment in south africa. >> we are going to be back after a short break. continuing coverage of president mandela's memorial service. the president of namibia will be next.
>> we are going to take you back to jonesberg in just a moment. getting ready to speak now is the president of namibia. he won reelection there in 2009 and also served as the minister of home office from 1990-1995. we take you back live now to johannesburg for the president. >> today, we are gathered here
as one human family, united by a son of the african soil. fighting apartheid and a giant who gave his life serving humanity, because he was selfless. he sacrificed his life for the dignity of others. he believed in the will of every human being. he personified the humanity, who humility. because he believed in unified south africa, he chose
forgiveness over retribution, reconciliation and peace. yes, mandiva was south african, but to us in namibia, he was a comrade in arms. for those patriots in namibia who served with him in prison, some of who are with us today, it was an inspiration to the people of namibia in our struggle for freedom and
independence. mandiva was a simple fundamental of human rights, freedom, peace and justice, not only for the people of south africa, but for humanity itself. the mold is a putting tribute to nelson mandela to celebrate his life. >> while world leaders continue, we're going to head to the outside of the stadium where ally velshi is joining us. >> there is a brief reprieve from the lane. president obama has spoken, the mandela family has spoken. most people are leaving. there are still speeches going on, it's rain, wet in there,
but, you know, i couldn't help but listen to the conversation you were just having with your previous guests about the fact that when the current president jacob zuma was introduced, there were boos. they showed president obama and there were cheers across the stadium. the current president was booed. i have a couple people here on their way out and i wanted to talk to them. why did that happen within the booing for the current president? >> i think it's because the local deliver being done, i think you that was the main concern. >> what is the main economic concern, jobs, what is it? >> jobs, everything here around the country. >> how is this such a celebration today of this man who ended apartheid and yet so many people are dissatisfied with the economic situation? >> maybe trying to compare zuma
and mandela, mandela did so oh much and zum ax is doing not so well. that's why maybe people are booing so much. >> what is your sense of how much things have changed from the end of apartheid until now? >> well, a lot has changed, but now, i say now, but zuma is not doing very much. actually, much hasn't been done, some has been going slow down. >> how does south africa become better? >> i would say i would like the previous president to come back. >> the last president. >> he was the last president and he made so many changes in south africa. >> he did so well, yeah. >> thank you for talking to us. we appreciate that, and thank you for being here today. >> thank you. >> so real mixed message, people are are so happy for nelson mandela, that he played a major
role in ending apartheid. they are wearing the colors, celebrating the party. there is no sense that it is not going to be an a.n. led government, but more and more dissatisfaction about the lock of progress from then until now. bottom line, though, today, it's not about dissatisfaction. it has simply been people celebrating the life of president nelson mandela, very few people holding him responsible for the lack of economic progress here, but they are, when pressed, citing the fact that there is a lack of economic progress and very high youth unemployment. >> i'm glad you got a reprieve from the rain. thank you for reporting from that outside the stadium. let's bring in our guest. what about the south africa
leader specifically of today. did mandela set an impossible bar for these leaders? >> ok, you remember when he stepped down and the next president stepped in. he said nobody can fit in those shoes, he's too big. i think today, set a very high standard in terms of a leader who suffered so much, who freed his people as he stepped back, but at the same time, i wouldn't want to say he's the only leader. in south africa, there are many other leaders. in the absence of leadership, where government had enjoyed our leaders, other people stepped up. the desmond tutus and many others.
those people were there, and some of them, as soon as the jailed leaders came back from prison, they tend back. they were not interested in taking over, but just leading -- >> where is the competition? if you've got youth unemployment at close to 25%, if you've got the problems in the economy that are present right now in south africa, those conditions are rife for competition, right? where is the dr. bulelazy of today? julius longa, where is the competition for the a.n.c.? >> where's the root of the problem? we shouldn't forget the history and the root, where this problem came from. it didn't come up much as we know that we can just president
zuma. he didn't cause the problems that are there and have we adequately addressed those causes? a failing education system, it has been failing, set up to fail, set up by the apartheid government to fail and not even mandela managed to turn it around. >> that's a question four, how long, we don't know how long it does to untake the vestiges of the apartheid movement and and repercussions of the international sanctions. >> power is actually very distracting. i think many people in the a.n.c. have become distracted because they have power. >> what does that mean, to be distracted by power? >> you lose sight of the job, but also start to focus on the perks. issues about the perks that you
get -- >> so corruption. >> it's corruption, but it's also just the sense that all of a sudden now, you can have -- you can express largesse, you have a credit card and can take 20 friends out to dinner. people present like a $5,000 bill for a meal that they had with several dozen of their friends. i think that we underestimate the extent to which many young south africa are taking a back seat and watching and waiting for the situation to resolve itself, the power struggles within the a.n.c. to resolve. there are many young people ready for the power. >> doesn't that bring me back to the point, brings us back to the point i was just making. where is the competition? when you've got these conditions on the ground again, that provides an opening for political movement.
>> they have been taken add filled by youth leaders. after being kicked out, before he was kicked out, everything was fine. get kicked out, seize the opportunity, seize the gap, seize the competition and seize the moment and forms a appear along those lines. he is definitely competition. we cannot underplay that, and especially the youth forming the majority of the population. >> just getting back to the events of the day, do you think the death of nelson mandela, i mean, here we are, we've been talking about south africa politics for an hour and a half here. how often do we do that? this is a country highlighted because of the death of nelson mandela. do you think that his passing will spur on a new future, a new south africa. >> i think there is a way in
which revisiting his life has reawakened many south africans. many people are looking back and thinking about what it is that they've done since 1994 to honor the freedom. i think many are askinging what am i doing with the freedom that i gained. >> we haven't talked about america's role in that, in the future of south africa moving forward. the last few years of the obama administration, and then what comes after. >> yes. >> the second term of the obama presidency. >> first, we're going to bring in del walters, he's going to be talking about the next speaker, the president of india, one of the six heads of state that will address the crowd at the memorial service. >> the president of india says that mandela holds special significance for people of india. he says the people there saw him as a reflection of gandhi, who devoted his life to defeating
colonialism by non-violent means. he has served at minister of defense, finance and commerce. he was elected to the upper house of parliament in india five times. we take you to johannesburg, the president of india. >> uncommon human that inspired all of mankind. he was an icon of social and economic changes, the kind of transformation and emancipation that his people had only dreamed of. he guided his nation braced by
apartheid with his simple message of tolerance and harmonious. his life and struggle which represented hope for this uncertain not only in south africa, but all around the world remind us of the principle that the other nations, in the face of the of the prosecution, punishment and relentless oppression, nelson mandela continued his non-violent struggle with dignity and pride, refusing to be intimidated. he never diminished you his kind of struggle against injustice
and inequality. he reminded us in india of the revolutionary methods of gandhi. it was therefore an honor for the indians to confer upon mandela our highest civilian award, jewel of india, when he visited india in 1990. mandiva received an unprecedented public welcome and was in calcutta. when he visited india as the first president of post apartheid south africa, he
visited and said that it was for him a homecoming, a pilgrimage. the first chatter of gandhi's struggles, he resisted aggression before he took up in india the same post. mandiva identified the foreign policy of the new south africa, equal how many rights, democracy, respect for international law, world peace achieved through non-violent means.
cooperation in an independent world are the same principles that the founding fathers of free india had enshrined in our own policy. mandiva offered nationally the influence of gandhi and the first prime minister of india on his own. it is no wonder then that we in india have great sentiment with the people of this great country, south africa. we stand by you. >> you are watching live coverage of the memorial service for nelson mandela. a slate of word leaders are speaking to eulojize him.
it's 2:30 p.m., a working day in south africa and it's raining. the biggest cheers were when president obama was introduced. here's some sounds from what he said. >> mandiva would emessage as the last great liberator of the 20th century. like gandhi, he would lead a resistance movement, a movement that at its start had little prospect for success. like dr. king, he would give potent voice to the claims of the oppressed and the moral necessity of racial justice. >> we're joined again by our
guests from columbia university and n.y.u. it's a pleasure you here and get the context. i want to talk more about the man being honored today and this global outpeg, which i can't remember seeing this since the death of pope john paul ii perhaps. you count the word leaders, more than 50 are there. help us understand why this outpouring. was it simply his life, his personality? what was it about nelson mandela? >> do you want to take that, or should i go ahead? >> go ahead. >> it's not just the fact that many of the people themselves were politically active in the apartheid struggle. i think the international struggle pulled in people. i think many are there because they had this experience are
being politicized by the anti apartheid struggle. many leaders, heads of state are there because they also have some kind of relationship with south africa, historical relationship. i saw the foamer president of britain you wouldn't expect to show up, but they feel they have a special relationship with south africa. there's a kind of moral pressure for people to be there, because it's one of those moments at which you can't quarrel with the morality. >> we were talking about how the end of the cold war is really why we're all here today and cell braying nelson mandela, because south africa really became sort of mired in that conflict. can you talk more about that? >> i saw what was happening in south africa asacriaing the
platform for the cold war when the anti apartheid movement was supported by the left and the government was supported by the right. we were the casualties of that war for whatever reason, the powers that we saw happening there. also, at the same time, an interesting thing is that south africa was the last in the continent to get the liberation. >> raul castro is speaking at the podium now. let's listen. he is the president of cuba and succeeded his brother, fidel castro. it looks like we're having some problems with the translation. let's talk about the fact that fidel castro was a strong
supporter of the anti apartheid movement. we can listen in now. >> equality and the well being of all of its children, a nation bent on overcoming the consequences of colonialism, slavery and racial segregation. >> setting an example of integrity and perseverance, mandela headed efforts to eradicate poverty, creating opportunities for all.
>> mandela has set out an in surmountable example to latin make and the caribbean, which are currently moving towards unity and i want allegation for the benefit of their peoples on the basis of respect for diversity and convinced that it is only through dialogue and cooperation that discrepancies that can be resolved in a civilized relationship established between those who think differently.
>> cornerback ba, a country born in the struggle for independence and for the apparition of savory and who's children have african blood in their veins has had the privilege of fighting and building alongside the african nations. >> we shall never forget mandela's moving homage to our common struggle -- >> you are listening to the president of cuba, raul castro. we're going to head over to the
stadium. aljazeera's alan is there. >> the master of ceremonies here has repeatedly had to scold people sitting in the upper deck over here, some of the rowdier groups for interrupting some of the speeches and has had to ask for discipline in honor of nelson mandela, because there have been very loud boos from the stadium crowd wherever jacob zuma's images appear on the big screen. he is scheduled to give the key note speech in just a couple of minutes and there's no telling what exactly is going to happen. whenever he has appeared, this place has erupted in boos. it will be an interesting scene in just a couple of minutes when president zuma takes to the podium. it is raining, it's been raining solidly and nelson mandela
himself once referred to his life as a career of storms. what we're seeing here today, what all these people are seeing and experiencing might be one final storm. >> that's very good. alan, appreciate it, thank you. as we continue to follow the memorial service, we should pause for just a moment. we've got to squeeze in a quick break. we're going to come back and listen to the moment when the president of south africa, jacob zuma takes to the lectern. first to a break. we're back in a minute.
>> welcome back to aljazeera america. you're watching live coverage of the memorial service in johannesburg for nelson mandela. raul castro, the president of cuba speaking. it's extraordinary that he followed an address by president barack obama and what preceded that was look at this video with, a handshake between the leader of the free world and raul castro, the president of cuba. >> they are leaders of state, right? >> we vice president had diplomatic relations with that country for decades. that handshake, as well, the president of brazil, also a notable handshake. she not long ago canceled the state visit to washington because she thought the n.s.a. was spying on her, so really an interesting stage that's been
set here. i want to bring in our guests again. let's talk about the politics of this a little bit more and the fact that nelson mandela really did have some interesting allies, didn't he, including fidel castro and gaddafi. >> nelson and many leaders of the a.n.c. went underground, looking for allies, and they were looking for allies around the world, looking for allies in africa, in the west, and they didn't find many takers in the west. muammar gaddafi was an ally. fidel castro in this hemisphere
was an ally. correct? >> yes. yes. >> from palestine. when you mention gaddafi and the relationship that they had, i was really so proud the one time i was invited to a dinner where mandela was having dinner with muammar gaddafi and i was part of that small crowd. >> we're going to of to interrupt, because president zuma is going to speak. i want to get to del walters with more background. >> jacob zuma was elected back in 2009 as president of south africa. his journey was a long and interesting one. he became politically active at a very young age, joining the african national congress in 1958 when he was 16 years old. he served at deputy president of south africa. that during that time, he worked
>> mama mandela and the entire mandela family, and your former heads of state and government, presidents and representatives of governments, heads of international organizations in all regions of the world, your majesties, your royal highnesses, traditionalle leaders, religious leaders, the leadership of the a.n.c. and alliance partners, leaders of fraternal political
organizations in africa and abroad, representatives of political parties, activist it is of the former anti apartheid movement, the diplomatic core, eminent persons, friends of south africa from all over the world, fellow south africans, good day. south africans sing a song about former president nelson mandela.
we sing that he is one of a kind. that there is no one fight like him. nelson mandela, nelson mandela. the song is one of the most accurate descriptions of this global icon who is the founding president of a free and democratic south africa and also one of the former presidents of the oldest liberation movement in the continent, the a.n.c. his passing has packed and
unprecedented outpeg of grief across the world, yet it is grief tinged with with administrations admirations and celebrations. everyone has a nelson mandela moment when he has touched their lives. let us begin before by thanking all heads of states and governments, international delegations, presidents here today. we also extend our deepest gratitude for the messages of condolences that we continue to receive.
the mandela family, the south africa people and the african continent as a whole feels stronger today because we have been supported by millions throughout the world. dear south africans, that we are mandiva's compatriots and lived during his time is a cause for a great celebration and enormous pride. never before has our country celebrated alive as we are doing with that of mandiva today. we do not call mandiva the father of our member nations nearly for political correctness
or relevance. we do so because he laid a firm foundation for the south africa of our dreams, one that is united, non-racial, non-sexist, democratic and prosperous. we do it because mandiva was a courageous leader. courageous leaders are able to abandon their concerns for bigger and all embracing dreams, even if those dreams come at a huge cost. mandiva embodied this trait. he was a fearless freedom fighter who refused to allow the
brutality of the apartheid states stand in the way of the struggle for the liberation of his people. being a lawyer, he understood the possible consequences of these actions. he also knew that no unjustice system could last forever. he said through the struggle will be a bitter one, leaders will be deported, imprisoned, and even shot. the government will terrorize the people and their leaders in an evident to halt the forward
march. reforms of organizations will be rendered impossible, but the spirit of the people cannot be crushed until full victory is won. the struggle became mandiva's life. he was at the forefront of the rush of the radical change in the a.n.c. in the 1940's, advancing the long walk to freedom. he became a volunteer in chief during the defiance campaign in the early 1950's and became the first commander-in-chief of the a.n.c.'s armed wing in the early 1960's. he paid dearly for his beliefs
and actions through imprisonment. he stated in 1952 "i was made by the law a criminal, not because of what i had done, but because of what i stood for, because of what i thought, because of my conscience." arrested and sentenced to life imprisonment during the trial, later in 1954, he never lost his fighting spirit. for 27 years, the south african people spoke about him in hushed tones out of fear.
in fact, if the a part who you had government had its way, they would have been burned even from thinking about mandiva. the powerful name of nelson mandela lived on. he continued to inspire our people every single day from inside prison walls, he demonstrated leadership despite starting negotiations with the enemy while in prison. he also negotiated for the release of his fellow political prisoners, first, before his own release. his release from prison on the 11th of february, 1990 was one
of the most remarkable and moving moments in the world history. the world came to a stand still watching this tall, imposing figure walking out into a world he had left behind 27 years before. the enormous emotions and feelings we can express in human language. a downtrodden people who had been dehumanized and made to feel that pariahs in the land of their birth suddenly saw signs that freedom would be attained
in their lifetimes. south africa need add leader like mandiva to help us through a difficult transition from apartheid to a free democratic society. in the bumpy road to start free elections, there are many times that he brought our nation back from the brink of the massacre in 1992 and the killing of the popular leader of our people in 1993, a time of the occasions when our country faltered in its long walk to freedom when we
stared into the heart of darkness. it is at this time that mandiva installed a sense of calm and purpose and brought us back on the road to freedom. south africa felt democratic elections were largely peaceful because of his leadership that he displayed. indeed, there is no one like mandiva. he was one of a kind. today, on international human rights day, we celebrate mandiva, the man of peace. today is the 20th anniversary
of his being the world peace prize in 1993. this freedom fighter had always stated that the a.n.c. had resorted to arms because the regime with which responded with violence burpings and detentions to simple demands for equal citizenship, human rights and justice. to him, for south africa to ato in peace, the arms struggle was inevitable, but it was a means to an end, but not an end in
itself. mandiva's love for peace was also evident in the work he did in the continent. people enjoyed peace and democracy today because of the seeds of peace planted by mandiva. following the historic national elections, on the 27 april, 1994, an unprecedented number of heads of state and government and eminent persons from around the world descended upon our shores for mandivas inauguration as the first president of a free and democratic south africa. today, the whole world is
standing still again to pay tribute to this greatest son of south africa and africa. fellow mourners, there is no one like mandiva. he was one of a kind. the world speaks fondly of mandiva's promotion of unity during his presidency. he had declared as follows during the trial in 1954 and i quote" the a.n.c. has spent half a century fighting against racism. when it triumphs, it will not change that policy on you ." that is promotion of
non-racialism, and reconciliation during his tenure as president of the republic but not surprising. compatriots in france, speaking at the induction of a new constitution of the republic, in 1996, mandiva out lined the vision of the new society. he said" let us give practical recognition to the injustice of the part by putting a future face on equality and social justice. let us nurture our national unity by recognizing with respect the joy, languages and
cultures of south africa in all their diversity. let tolerance for one another's view create the peaceful conditions which gives space for the best in all of us to find expressions and to flourish. above all, let us woke together in striving to banish homelessness, illiteracy, hunger and disease." with with the magnitude of challenges, facing the young, south africa in mind, mandiva said about uniting the nation, he carefully managed the anger
and frustration of both the oppressors and the oppressed and reminded us of our common humanity that unbonded racial boundaries. that he managed the fears of the minority and high expect is as and jim patience of the majority. he told us that the promises of democracy would not be met overnight and that the fears of the few would not be allowed to derail the new one freedom. we all agreed with him as mandiva never hesitated to speak his mind when it was necessary to do so, regardless of how
uncomfortable the words may be to recipients. many leaders, some of whom are presently here have experienced his time. realizing the power of sports to conquer prejudice, former president mandela embraced south africa's 1995 rugby world cup ambitions, donning the sprint bowl jersey at a time when it was much, much analyzed by the majority of the population. this would be a malmark of his presidency. our sports teamsunder for the mandiva magic that his visit
would bring each time they faced opponents. beyond promoting the conciliation, mandiva also laid a firm foundation for transformation, as well as reconciliation and development. he knew that reconciliation without transformation and reconstruction would be meaningless. and the leadership, the newly democratically elected government focused on political injustices and created new institutions to facilitate the burden of a democratic society based on the principles of non-racialism and non-sexism.
close to 800 racist apartheid laws were remove removed from te statute books in the first 10 years of democracy. the did you say mantelling of the legal framework of apartheid and transformation of many state institutions led to the visible improvement of the social economic conditions of millions of people. that mandiva laid the foundation for a better life for all, which was the rallying cry of his presidency. mandiva also laid the foundation for our country's now successful fight against one of the
greatest sketches of our time, still in office and during his retirement. the global campaign gave birth to mandela day, a global call for action, mobileizing people to spend at least 37 minutes helping those in need. in november, 2009, the united nations general assembly declared the 18th of july as nelson mandela international day. each year on the 18th of july, the world comes together to
join us. >> the enthusiasm level for jacob zuma is much less than for his predecessor, which was much less than for nelson mandela. what i thought was interesting is how many people speak in glowing terms and intimate terms about nelson mandela. they even retrained today. the last couple of days, i've been hearing about refraining here, discreet about asking about now because they were celebrating nelson mandela. they hear zuma's name, it changes. they don't think he is mandela or in inheritor of mandela's legacy. this does come up with some
issues of south africa. there's a wing of the party that is wanting to do things that are bolder. a lot of black south africas look to zimbabwe where after 35 years of rule, 30 years of rule, their government decided to take bolder steps, particularly directed against the whites, who are still economically entrenched. that kind of talk still exists around here. i loved in south africa in 1996 and 1997. if you allow me to reach in my pocket, i'm going to bring out the pass book. you will know this from movies and lore, this was the most hated instrument of apartheid. in 1994, they didn't get rid of the pass book, which had to be carried by blacks and everybody who wasn't white. inside, it would of your details and race. instead of getting rid of it, they made everybody get one. the hatred at the time, the whites who felt disgrades and
insult yod to have a carry a pass like the blacks had carried, everybody carried them, but the whites saw this as the blacks putting their foot on their neck. the blacks didn't like it in the first place. there was a lot of animosity about the jobs, the economy, about everything that was going to happen in the society. this is beautiful now like a driver's license. everybody in south africa has them, but those debates about these instruments of apartheid of gone. now is the debate you've been having, jobs and economy. the unemployment rate might be 25% here, spain and greece, too. the youth unemployment rate might be 50% here, in spain, as well. the fact that you've got those unemployment rates doesn't necessarily mean unrest and dissatisfaction, but in south africa where so much seethes just below the surface, that could actually matter. when you see the reception that jacob zuma gets, you get the sense that the road is not all clear for south africa ahead. >> let's get inside the stadium
now. alan, i'm looking around behind you and the stadium is emptying. is the president of south africa still speaking? >> he is still speaking and this crowd you has thinned considerably. they have allowed him to speak, which at some point we were questioning, because they have interrupted other speakers. they have booed loudly whenever jacob zuma's picture was put up on the screen. i am hearing chanting and singing beginning. that is going to be heard on the stage and is clearly a slap at president zuma. you can simply tell that the crowd in this stadium as the president speaks is virtually sitting on their hands, just about 30 seconds ago, we heard the first applause for president zuma, and it was rather subdued applause at that, very little of the explosive reaction that
we've seen from some of the other speakers, especially from president obama, who was very well received here. we were down in the stands and talking to some of the folks just after he spoke. one man told me we love he's hes celebrate the life of nelson mandela. we can't wait until he gets started on his third term and he gave that a big laugh. that's the scene inside the stadium. it's thinning out, half full right now. some of these folks have been here for nine solid hours now. the gates opened at 6:30 johannesburg time and a huge rush of people came in. a lot of people put in time sitting in the rain and it's been a very, very tough time for them. they're thanking in there right now, but just barely. >> the ladies on set said i'll introduce them in a second here, have said that maybe the best
thing jacob zuma could do was make president obama a citizen of south africa and let him run for president next year. this is an assent professor of a an throw polling and our other guest a professor of higher education. the line is you don't want to be the person who follows an icon. all right? perhaps what we're seeing today with jacob zuma is you don't want to be the man who follows the man who followed the icon. so much the commentary about this man today, what does it say to you about how he has led the country for two terms now? >> well, i think we have to start with how he came into power.
i think the dissatisfaction in the country comes where we had the peasant who followed mandiva recalled from office in an unprecedented way. to recall president who is sitting because of the fact that there was a case investigating the president who was waiting to step in, so the way the whole thing was done was that in a way that caused a lot of dissatisfaction in the population, so i think it takes time for people to really recover, unless you step in and you really accel and go beyond what the icon delivered. >> in a really affirm active, construct you have way. >> i don't blame it on him as a person alone.
as i said earlier on, the country leads to skills and all that you. lead, there's great policies formulated and mandela advances a little bit. you are the one who has to implement them. implementation is the most challenging. for any you world leader. >> mandela had it easy, the formulation of policies and all this. the implementer is the one who is really taken to task and unfortunately set in that way. >> opposition is a lot easier than governing, isn't it? >> yes. >> you can run against a lot of things, but once you assume power, having to govern ends up being very difficult and has for jacob zuma. >> another way of thinking about it, too, as the resurrection of
the image. >> we've seen that today. >> it's amazing now, people are looking back with nostalgia. >> the glass half full way of looking at it is the beauty of democracy. we'll continue the conversation and our live coverage of the memorial of nelson mandela right after this. of the people until we restore our freedoms and r
>> this is rounding out and service for nelson mandela is ending soon. as you can see, it's still raining there in johannesburg. i want to check in quickly with our meteorologist nicole mitchell there. >> raining there, but we wanted to quickly touch on the united states. we're having problems that people need to know about heading out the door. you can see the widespread area of moisture up and down the east coast behind that in the midwest, still a lot of cold air. laguardia, the snow has just started within the last hour, brought down ceilings and visibility. i from thursday to friday traveled from here to
mississippi. those delays add up. it took me 26 hours to do a nine hour trip. all those airports are starting to see delays once again. the core of the blue could be four to six-inches. around that the white with the winter storm advisories are possibly three to five-inches. there is going to be accumulating snow through the rest of the day today. the stuff you'll have to shovel, the plows out. that is going to slow things down across this region. as we get to the midwest, it's still that core of cold air, temperatures as they are, easily 20 degrees below average. where we have the oranges here, parts of the arrowhead of minnesota, 20 or 30 below zero with the wind chills. tomorrow morning, the coldest air and more wind, you could be talking wind chills 40 or 50 below zero. that's still critically cold in some of these places, minneapolis even right now
feeling like it is minus 19, so we're definitely going to have to be dealing with that, and even as far to the west as california, still cold, just not this dangerous stuff like we have here in the midwest. we'll keep you on top of all approximate. >> travel, travel, travel, problems in the states, along that eastern corridor. can you imagine, flight delays, cancellations. >> it's been terrible for the past 48 hours. we're going to bring in our guest to talk about more about mandela's legacy. thank you so much for being with us. you know, the event is pretty much wrapping up. i want to get your impressions of how people will remember this memorial service. >> i think there will be mixed emotions. i think a lot of people are going to remember the presence of barack obama. i think for many people, that will be a highlight. for everything he said, he
quoted from mandela, inspired the people. >> did he get it right, the president of the united states get it right? >> i think he did. >> the tone, tenor, message? >> he the everything right. he wasn't speaking as the president of the united states, you know, he really was speaking as somebody whose life has been touched by nelson mandela. i think he got it right. i think they'll remember the music. they loved the music. >> curt performing. >> the zuma speech. >> he seemed to be reading. >> he was reading facts that people of south africa already know. he was speaking of somebody who has just gone to the a.n.c. website and downloaded the biography of mandela and wasn't
really saying anything. >> that's a strong endime. >> about his own relationship with mandela. >> even as this was laid out, we look at this program, it looks like a program in two halves, the economic portion of the program, who with representatives from most of the brick nations, president putin from russia did i understand attend. the united states in improving relationships there, your thoughts on how the program was even laid out. >> before even going to how the program was laid out, what's happening, you have the tradition in south africa of the ceremony after the ceremony after tears, what happens after tears. what you're seeing is people moving away. we have shed our tears, so what
happens next. first a little celebration, then the morning after. clearly, you know you have lost somebody. you come to grips with that, the crowds are gone, the political support is gone. we are left at home. we have the children at home, the family at home and you have lost a father figure. what happens next, and i think that's where the reality of the political situation, the economic situation, the social situation comes in parallel with what happens as the family losing the head of the family, the source of income. what i'm seeing happening now is we are not really getting into is addressing what would be happening after tears. >> i have heard the oldest daughter saying as recently as yesterday, we haven't had an opportunity as a family to
grieve, because people are everywhere, which goes right to your point. >> yes, so this political speakers, economy speakers, great speakers come, but they are not taking the tears away. >> will there be that opportunity in a more private setting for the family to grieve? they've shared their father and grandfather for so long with the world. will they at one point be able to say goodbye. >> i'm sure with the other ceremony that will be held back home. i'm also talking about of the family in south africa oh. south africa, the international guests going, the attention going, the television going and all that, what's happened in the country every day and confronting the unemployment, the economic situation that we have, the political problems that we have.
we're going to have coincidentally almost three months leading to that, which in the traditional setting, funerals that's when you really confront the relatives. our elections are going to be the platform that really make us confront the laws we have suffered, the laws we are celebrating. >> in so many ways, it feels like the end of an era. we just recognized the 50t 50th anniversary of the assassination of j.f.k. recently and just a handful of people in our modern history. you can name them, gandhi, winston churchill and this was one of the most inspiring. we'll continue our chat, but we do need to take another break right now and we'll be back with more continuing coverage of the death of nelson mandela. s windiu
hours or more now, came in with when the gates opened at 6:30 and they're still up in the cheap seats singing and dancing and marching. it's been a remarkable.com mon station of their love and support for this man. one person told me this event was important because she and others, south africa as a nation needed to let go of nelson mandela. everybody has spoken about following his legacy by moving forward. she said this is important. we need to let hill go. we need to be let him be at peace. it's been a remarkable day as we see from the political undercurrent swirling, just amazing to be live and in the stadium. the whole problem with the president being booed when he appeared on the screen and the very tepid response to his presentation here absolutely fascinating. also, africa, part of the u.k.,
the united kingdom, two representatives from britain, prince charles and of course prime minister david cameron here, but not asked to speak, so a bit of a snub there. a fascinating day. it is still raining. absolutely amazing, all day long,ed steady downpour that these folks endured. >> alan schauffler inside the stadium. ali velshi is outside the stadium. >> i was talking to jimmy carter. during his presidency, he said he would happily do business with a post apartheid south africa, with a multi-racial government. then, because of the emphasis that the a.n.c. placed on its relationship with being
communist, with fidel castro, with muammar gaddafi, once the reagan administration came in, the tone changed. i had a chat with jimmy carter about this. >> i would say that after i had many talks with nelson mandela, i never heard him say that he was grateful to the united states. he was grateful to cuba, he was grateful to others that spoke up for him while he was still in prison. he was grateful to the people that condemned the apartheid regime, but i don't think that he felt that his freedom and the change that took place in south africa was attributable to the united states. >> tell me about nelson mandela as a leader. when you said he informs you and instructs you, how do you mean that that? >> well, you know, even former
presidents of the united states and brass still and mexico and ireland and secretary general of the united nations, when we meet with nelson, there's no doubt in my mind who the leader is there. not because he's finishes or dominating, but because he's quiet and gentle and represents i would say human cashing san francisco that are admirable and obvious to everyone. he suffered. he went into prison as a young militant boxer who was ready to fight, and literally, and take up arms. after more than 24 years, he came out to everybody's surprise white headed and gentle, but still strong and able. everybody thought that he would want vengeance and to end
apartheid militarily. >> that wouldn't have been surprising. >> no, was expected. that is what people would have expected, but he came out, i would say exhibiting the finest aspects of a human being, the kind that all of us are reminded every time we go to church, who you milty, strength, peace, forgiveness, compassion, love. >> it's remarkable -- >> it looks like the satellite shots are tough, especially when the weather is bad, but that was some really interesting sound from president carter. >> i'm shocked by president kennedy -- president carter my tollies, president carter, i wanted to know from ali how he took those comments from president carter saying the
united states -- nelson mandela never said thank you to the united states. >> i think there's more context that we need there had. >> as we turn to our guests, i'm wondering the reality of the period in time is that the a.n.c., nelson mandela, that was a movement that was looking for allies. we said a couple of times, worth repeating, looking foallelies in the struggle. america at the time, we would have to say was not a strong ally, certainly not in the reagan years. we can be honest about that, right? i'm really interested in the context of that comment. >> of my president carter felted need -- >> to make that point. >> what did you think when he made that comment? >> the question that came to my mind was for what? from nelson mandela perspective, there was no direct support to the liberation struggle at all.
>> reagan and thatcher were calling the a.n.c. and mandela. >> terrorists. >> a terrorist organization. >> on the watch list, and the a.n.c. leaders were not allowed to visit the country, so what are you grateful for of the symbolic attitudes? >> when he visited the country in 1990, we know that nelson mandela expressed his love of the american people. we saw it in new york, in oakland, in miami, again and again. this expression of thank you and love to the american people, because these were young people. >> who supported us. >> who picked up winnie mandela's effort. >> and demonstrated, too. >> i really need to know the perspective. >> let's get the broader perspective in which president carter had great admiration,
talking about when he was released from prison he was the best of humanity. president obama spoke about that as well during the service. let's hear some of that. >> there's a word in south africa obunto. a word that captures mandela's greatest gifts, his recognition that we are all bound together in ways that are invisible to the eye, that there's a oneness to humanity. that we achieve ourselves by sharing ourselves with others and caring for those around us. >> there is a poetic resonance in this word ubunto especially today as we've talked about the leaders on that stage. even in death, i suppose, nelson mandela brought them all together in some way, for one
day. >> yes. but also, he brought them together so that they could feel the thankfulness. when president carter is looking for thankfulness, he wanted nelson mandela to come in and lay at the feet of america and say we are grateful to your country. the fact that the people have been received by such warmth should be thanks enough. he hasn't for then who helped in his time of need. i think there is a great depth of thankfulness that maybe president carter isn't awater and barack obama was aware of it, because he brought up the term ubunto. you heard the crowd cheer as soon as he said it. >> this is where for me the speech really started to lift off the ground. >> yes. >> it started to sore just you a bit. president obama talked about
this being a moment for self reflection and how he would always fall short of that target, mandela's tarts. it's the idea of living like mandela, mandela exhorting young people to live that life. that's when the speech really started to rise for me. we've got another bit of sound from that speech, as well. >> after this great liberator is laid to rest and when we've returned to our cities and village and rejoined our daily routines, let us search for his strength. let us search for his largeness of spirit somewhere inside of ourselves. >> you know, as tony was alluding to, when president obama becomes sort of self
reverential and intro spective about this, i also thought about washington and sort of the turmoil that we've seen in recent months with the budget put somedown. the spirit of reconciliation that mandela, really that is his greatest legacy, we could use a bit of that, not just in washington, but in other conflicts in the world and seems like there aren't a lot of politicians out there that know how to compromise. he was criticized sometimes for it. >> he will continue to be criticized. there is a romantical wish for some sort of return to the struggle and sort of return to the bloodshed. what i think mandela is representing is that politics can be done better.
there is i guess a politics of the heart rather than all the ideological battles. i think one of the things that he's left south africa with is an absence of actual ideological divisions. south africans are not a very ideologically divided people. >> i smoke to a spokesman for jacob zuma. he was in jail with nelson mandela. he smuggled out nelson mandela's first draft of his biography, long walk to freedom. he speaks proudly of those days. we discussed the idea that there are some south africans who in the 1990's were that dissatisfied this wasn't going to be a civil war, a revolution. largely, that died off. nelson mandela could have asked
for a war and his compatriots came up with the idea of a truth and reconciliation commission. i sat in on those hearings. they were gruesome. the idea was if you admitted what you did and provided details, then if evidence came up against you layer, you would not be prosecuted. many people came forward and said what they've done and it was disgusting and gravel. even at the time, anger was boiling over saying why are with we letting this happen peacefully. there are still small groups of people who wish for that or wish for something like zimbabwe where decades after independence, the government started to take away property from white's who still controlled major parts of the economy. zimbabwe has become some what of a basket case because of it. most if dissatisfied with the economic progress made so far understand that it might be
worse off if we did not go through in this country a peaceful transition as happened. that is something i've heard many, many times today, people saying we have to understand the economy's still bad, but we didn't have a civil war. we didn't have blood shed and we live in harmony with our white fellow south africans. the concept of reconciliation and whole concept of that commission versus a war crimes commission has had a remarkable effect on the nation. >> we've been taken by the comment from your interview with the former president jimmy carter. put it in context for us. i'm surmising things that i'm sure i'm wrong on it. so what did he mean -- yes. >> i don't think jimmy carter wasn't saying anything wouldn't have said in front of nelson mandela. what he was saying is what he was president, he made overtures.
walter man detail made a staple saying we support a a free south africa, we want a multi-racial south africa. that was not at the time universally accepted especially by most european governments. he said it. what happened is -- hello, ladies, nice to see you. you guys have finished with this thing. i was just asking, because i'm talking to away audience in the united states and they want to know whether you feel that america did enough to fight apartheid? >> yes, they did. >> so you guys think america was an ally in the end of apartheid. >> no! >> no you don't no tell me! >> yes. >> i think she's caught up in a little bit of emotion. thank you guys, you're welcome to stay here while i just finish my conversation with my friends in new york. ronald reagan and margaret
thatcher did not embrace it the way jimmy carter did. after them, i think things changed. jimmy carter was making the point that things went backward after his administration. nelson mandela said thank you to the american people, made many trips to the united states and thanked the american people but not the government of the united states which did not afford the help that jimmy carter did. >> america did assist us as africans to fight with apartheid. i remember the time when mr. nelson mandela went to u.s.a. they didn't chase him out to say you are a black man, you're from south africa, but welcomed him and gave him some advice to say do this way and that way. when he came back, he really showed us to us that he was really welcomed in america and america did assist him so that today we got the freedom that we
have in south africa. >> and you people welcomed president obama quite warmly today. >> we welcomed him and are very much happy with mr. barack obama. we even wish that barack obama could sleep here the whole night or the whole year, i don't know how you call it. we are very impressed with mr. barack obama, even with his inspiration to us, he really impressed us. we shouldn't just say mr. mandela, you made it for us, it should actually be an art. we should now start loving it in us that actually, the ones that now should leave what mr. mandiva actually did in south africa. >> very good lesson. he inspired president barack obama and you are saying he inspired here. whatever the history was, south africans are very pleased that americans are celebrating this today. >> thank you to our guests for
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