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tv   Real Money With Ali Velshi  Al Jazeera  April 8, 2015 1:30am-2:01am EDT

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with tens of millions devoting themselves to musicianship. it is closing. a reminder, you can keep up to date with the news on the website. there it is on the screen, the address america's global war on terror. >> the strategy of taking out terrorists who threaten us while supporting partners on the front lines is one that we have successfully pursued in yemen and somali for years. today yemen is torn by civil war, and al-shabab has extended its reach beyond somali's
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borders. what went wrong. former ci director james woolley joins us to talk about that and more. i'm david shuster in for ali velshi, and this is "real money". [ ♪ music ♪ ] america's global war on terror is in disarray in some of the messiest hot spots in the world. in yemen the government is battling rebel groups, and it's fighting for its life. the recent air strikes are meant to show the government in coordination in the united states, but the yemeni government, a key ally in the fight against al qaeda all but disintegrated. it evacuated a coast inside yemen, hampering the ability to fight al qaeda in the peninsula. a.q.a.p. is the international terrorist group's franchise in
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yemen and has been lynned to terrorist -- linked to terrorist crops, and is fertile ground for them to extend their reach. al-shabab in somali is a threat through. some african countries succeeded of robbing al-shabab fighters of the territory controlled in somali. but the group responded by metastasizing into a menace, one recruiting outside of somali, including, some argue, here in the united states. last week an attack on a college campus killed some 150 students. they were singled out because of kenya's messy involvement in somali's civil war. somali and yemen - like syria and iraq - are active theatres in the global war on terror. as chaos in the places reaches new heights u.s. designated terror groups step in to fill the vacuum, it increases the
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threats in the regions and the world. all of this is despite years of military action, including air strikes, drone strikes and billions of dollars in aid to groups on the ground. no country has seen as much u.s. involvement over the past decade as iraq, yet iraq is u.s. trained and armed security forces crumbled when i.s.i.l. swept in seizing the west and northern portions of iraq. i.s.i.l. is in a tactical retreat in baghdad, but as charles stratford reports i.s.i.l. maintains its control on other parts of >> reporter: /* >> reporter: many of the roads and buildings in tikrit remained deserted. the iraqi army allied with the militias may be in control, but the fighting has been intense in recent weeks. the islamic state of iraq and levant overran saddam hussein's hometown in june. security forces are trying to reassure people it's safe to return. >> translation: we are in control of security. we control all the government buildings, and we have secured
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the residential areas. >> the iraqi military victory was helped by u.s.-led coalition air strikes. evidence of atrocities was discovered in a mass grave, believed to contain the bodies of soldiers, committed by isil. >> i came to this place to look for my nephew. i was told he was killed and buried here in tikrit. >> reporter: iraq's p.m. visited the kurdish north, and repeated a promise that the iraqi army would work with the kurdish forces to take back control of the province. >> translation: we are here to cooperate and coordinate a joint plan to liberate the people. we'll work with all the sides and sects to liberate the area for the benefit of its people. >> the streets of tikrit may be quiet now. i.s.i.l. controls huge areas, and various areas north of the
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iraw. next door i.s.i.l. leap-frogged from the north-east to the suburbs of damascus. i.s.i.l. fighters threaten the syrian capital for the first time ever. stefanie dekker has that report. the yarmouk refugee camp has been besieged for two years. people starving, no running water. i.s.i.l. has taken control of the camp. some civilians escaped. civilians are afraid. it most are afrad of being attacked by i.s.i.l. some groups have reconciled. aid is coming to the area. palestinians.
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>> reporter: thousands are trapped. there's a fear of government attacks trying to push i.s.i.l. out. the syrian observatory for human rights says that the government is targetting i.s.i.l. positions with barrel bombs. this palestinian refugee camp is less than 10km from the center of damascus. others groups joined in the fight against i.s.i.l., but did not manage to gain much ground. there's allegations that al nusra front, an al qaeda affiliate is helping oil rur. the group issued -- helping i.s.i.l., even though they issued a statement they were nut really. we spoke to the syrian minister for reconciliation who said a deal was going to be signed where palestinian factions would lay down arms and the government would end the siege. they said al nusra didn't want it and allowed the fighters to enter the camp. what was a desperate situation for 18,000 civilians trapped there has gotten worse. >> the united nations called for
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a humanitarian corridor to allow civilians to leave. the people in yar hook are dependent on aid and none has been delivered since the fighting began. hospitals and clinics are no longer functioning. with i.s.i.l. in control, negotiating humanitarian relief is further away than ever ambassador james waulsey a director of central intelligence chashing the foundation of democracy says the global fight against terrorism needs to get tougher. what went wrong in iraq? >> well, lots of things. the first thing that wrongt is we didn't persist in the first gulf war when we had the kurds, and a lot of shia and a lot of people willing to help us, and get rid of saddam then. but having passed up that opportunity, the next thing that
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went wrong - some people would say the invasion itself in '03, but i would say we did not fight the counterinsurgency strategy as several people wanted to do from the beginning until things went sour around '04. >> going into iraq in the first place, you had iraq, iran, they were balancing each other out. the theory that by knocking out saddam hussein, we have been emboldens iran to mess with argument? >> there is validity to that. i think that we could have done it if we successfully, if we had persisted with a counter insurgency strategy into '04 and '05, instead of fighting the way we fought. what happened then was that the surge, going counter insurgency, succeeded. by
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around '07/'08 we had effectively won in iraq, and threw it away. >> i won't disagree with the counterinsurgency, but the broad are argument - we'll talk about it after the next break - the more the united states is involved we create more terrorists than we can kill. >> that's about 80% nonsense. there is some validity in some parts of it. generally speaking it matters a lot how we get involved. you are interviewing the former founder and president of yale citizens for eugene mccarthy, antiwar campaign that i participated in. i'm not always in favour. if you fight them, you have to fight them right. we had a chance to do this right in iraq, and we threw it away by plotting early withdrawal and bigger withdrawals than was consistent with winning.
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>> we'll talk about the details, in terms of how we fought in iraq, the mission in yemen and kenya and ambassador james woolley. president obama cited the battle against al-shabab militants in somali as a model of success to his approach for counterterrorism. last year's massacre puts him in doubt. more with >> there's heavy security everywhere >> mass killings... government corruption... misguided influence? >> i wanted people to know, this regime, was evil... >> fault lines investigates the impact of the u.s. involvement in south sudan >> fault lines al jazeera america's hard hitting... >> today they will be arrested... >> ground breaking... >> they're firing canisters of gas at us... >> emmy award winning investigative series... >> we have to get out of here... south sudan: country of dreams only on al jazeera america
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fearing her son is fighting with al-shabab. >> reporter: this woman's son, john, left their home in nairobi, with men from the mosque when he was 22. that was in 2012. she has never seen him since. these certificates show a conversion from christianity to islam. she believes he joined an extremist group, likely al-shabab. he called her in the night to check on her. she asked him to come home. >> translation: he told me he can't because he's wanted by police. i told him nothing is impossible to god. so instead of calling he should come home. heaven." >> police and people from the mosque kept questioning her and putting her under pressure. she is not alone in losing her son.
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there are dozens of families across kenya that say their young men and boys disappeared, and they suspect they have gone for paramilitary training with al-shabab. >> the kenyan recruits are additional. one escapee said the planners of terror attacks send troops to carry them out. when the group rose, the main aim was to obvious through the western-backed government. they brought a brutal form of law, and stability in the areas they control. >> 2006 ugandan troops arrived, the first country to contribute to an african union force. al-shabab threatened retaliation. in july 2010 it came with devastating effects. 74 people were killed by suicide bombers while watching the world cup final. the first attack outside of somali.
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it entered somali following kidnapages. attacks in kenya began. the 2013 attack on the wet gate shopping mall caught the world's attention. # 7 were killed. -- 67 were killed. it detracted from claims that al-shabab was a movement for the somali people. it drew attention from al qaeda. they were losing most territory to the african union troops. >> they were forced away from the territories they held, including kiss may u, and therefore are desperate to create relevance. >> reporter: force in somali has the upper hand. the government it backs provides few services and is accused of being corrupt, a situation that al-shabab tried to exploit. in the group's attack last week on sleeping students, it was the bloodiest yet, killing more than
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twice as many people than at westgate. while weaker, it poses a deadly threat james woolsy, a former director of central intelligence and foundation for defense of democracies - what should the united states be doing in terms of al-shabab, and what they are trying to do? >> we ought to supply local supporters, who are hostel to them, with weapons, with guidance, with c.i.a. and special forces people to help them. we ought to be there, but not with the main line units. we shouldn't be battalions of american infantry. >> the united states should help kenya bomb al-shabab targets in somali, if necessary. >> maybe bomb, maybe other actions. it depends on what the kenyan military wants to do. we ought to be helpful to them, and help stop them. brett stevens at
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"the wall street journal" talks about the situation internationally, like the broken window syndrome. if you let police department, if you let broken windows occurring in a neighbourhood, it will deteriorate. brett says the same thing is the case internationally. if we don't stop some of the crazed undertakings like al-shabab, i.s.i.s. and the rest, the broken window syndrome takes over the continent. you don't want to send in the army. there's a reasonable approach that would help local democratically inclined powers to get the job done, without announcing as soon as you do something that you are about to propensity. >> you sound like you moderated the position since the start of the iraq war, after you suggested that iraq had something to do with it, and you need to be
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forceful. >> i think that we showed by going in and by the success in the surge, that we could have taken saddam out, and help bring a lot more order and democracy to the country than we did. we felt the wrong strategy, we ignored people who argued for counterinsurgency. we fought - in some ways the way we fought in vietnam was a bad idea. in terms of the war in iraq, we admit it was a mistake for you and others to suggest that iraq had something to do with 9/11. a lot of americans believed that iraq. >> i still don't no that that is untrue. there was a lot of cooperation with the russians, with the international leftist
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organizations, one for the other. i'm not willing to say there was planning. >> you are the only person at your level of government services willing to suggest that. with the exception of dick cheney, but dick cheney backed away from that idea. anything is a big word. if you say that a country was not principally responsible, i'd go along with it. if you say it had nothing to do, i'd disagree with you. >> would you say iraq and the vacuum of power had a lot to do with the creation of i.s.i.l. that didn't exist before the united states went into iraq. >> fanatic beliefs on the sunni and the shi'a side of islam are not a new thing. in one way tore another. i.s.i.l.-like entities, and shiites on the other side have been fighting the war
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for 1300, 1400 years. so i think one puts all together too much emphasis on contemporary undertakings by saying that i.s.i.s. was begun by the united states a contemporary undertaking, you look at saddam hussein, but you think his regime kept the sunnis and the shia in check. >> he kept the sunnis in check by killing them. it's not the way we out to look at the problems in the world, including quiet, as long as they are quite through mass murder, that is okay. more are slaughtered now. i don't think that that is principally the result of american action or activity. i think it's something going on, as i said for hundreds and hundreds of years.
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>> that's another hot spot. the united states had a friendly government. we'll talk about that and what the united states should do on the other side of the break with >> the peninsula, in arabic, is aljazeera. our logo represents courage. fiercely independent quality reporting. >> to take as much aid as possible... >> and standing up for the voiceless. when you see this symbol respected around the world it means you too can now count on all the things we stand for. aljazeera america.
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the situation in yemen deteriorates with rebel forces making advances on the pore city of aden at the same time as saudi led air strikes battle their position. many are holed up after being driven from the city. hashem ahelbarra has the latest. >> reporter: the saudi-led collision ramps up air strikes. war planes strike brages leading to the sea -- bridges leading to the seaport city. the aim to prevent houthi fighters sending reinforcement. radar, command centers and checkpoints have been hit. >> the houthis target buildings
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and people, and managed to move to certain areas, to take cover from the air strikes. whilst working in coordination with tribesman and committees. >> violence in aden shows no sign of slowing. after days of fighting and running battles, many parts of the city have been destroyed. homes, shops, vehicles lay in ruins, civilians are being killed. houthi rebels and fighters loyal to ali abdullah saleh, the former president are infiltrating districts near the city's port. these are fighters loyal to president abd-rabbu mansour hadi, and are putting up a fierce fight. they have received new weapons airdropped by the coalition. they are largely outgunned and out numbered by the rivals.
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aden is a battle ground. and locals are caught in the middle. president abd-rabbu mansour hadi, who fled to saudi arabia could be trying to restructure the military. he sacked the army's chief of staff, and the commander of the special forces, they are accused of treason. they may have little impact. the military is loyal to sadr. the deposed president and is fighting alongside the rebels in this war. >> back with us again ambassador james woolsy, and the chairman for the foundation of democracies. yemen is a crucial money lost. we had a military base, they had to pull out. doesn't the chaos help arismendy alcantara and offshoots. >> of course. but it - because the houthis are
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doing well, it helps iran. so of the two empires in that part of the world, the cal fates, that are getting started, one is iran, the other, i.s.i.s., and their building to establish a caliphate. what is happening now in yemen tends to help the houthis and iran. if it turns, you'd why violence. even if another - the other side decided to win. >> one of the ways the united states thought it could win the war in terror was through unprecedented surveillance, internationally and domestic, carried out by the n.s.a. rand paul, running for president, says that surveillance needs to stop. is iran? >> i disagree with him on that. n.s.a. is a valuable collector of intelligence, for the united
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states, you don't defeat people chopping off others heads and crucifying them. with the penetrating them. and finding out what they are planning to do. you have to capture and interrogate them. >> what about the surveillance in the united states. >> i don't think there's surveillance in the united states that is against the law. there are people that complained and want to change the law. as far as oversight from the congress, from the particular judicial tribunal that reviews all of the requests by n.s.a., to look into something where there's probable cause, i don't think the u.s. government is breaking the law. i don't think it is wreaking the law with respect to material na edward snowden was circulating
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you authored a book in 2010. the washington post said the book argues: do you still believe that? >> sometimes. i think that's sometimes the case. sometimes it is - they are moderate muslims, and radical ones and the united states. it's necessary to deal with those who are breaking the law, and deal with them legally. >> so you say most mosques have states? >> i think most is strong, there are a few that have been. >> fair enough. >> former ambassador, and c.i.a. director. thank you for coming. we appreciate it.
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that is the show for today. i'm david shuster in for ali velshi, thanks for night. in a world where breath-taking mass murder is too common, al-shabab's attack on a kenyan college, and the killing of 147 people stands out. the somali armed extremist group took responsibility for the attack without hesitation or shame, and promised more. understanding al-shabab,