tv Real Money With Ali Velshi Al Jazeera April 10, 2015 1:30am-2:01am EDT
memorable moment and quick reminder. you can keep up to date with all the news on the website. there it is on your screen - aljazeera.com. terrorism is something that threatens americans at home and abroad. but all the military might in the world is not enough to stop it. tanks, troops have given away to interrogation and intelligence in a fight for hearts and minds. on the home front a conflict has emerged pitting our need for protection against our right to privacy. i'm david shuster in for ali velshi. our special report - a smarter war on terror begins right now.
so what does it take for america to prosecute a smarter war on terror. it's a pressing question especially as debate about successes and failures continue, it's a pressing question after a jury in boston found dzhokhar tsarnaev guilty of all 31 gaunts in the boston marathon bombing. it's more pressing after a week of arrests after federal bureau of investigation proebs, proebs uncovering support to u.s. terror groups like al qaeda and i.s.i.l. the u.s. government says recruitment by the groups are a threat. 20,000 foreign fighters have
gone to syria to join i.s.i.l. 3400 coming from western countries, 150 from in the united states, and the sofist case of groups are growing. last night cyber criminals said they were hacked - from i.s.i.l. - hacked into a television network, tv5, and they cut transmission of 11 channels for several hours, posting propaganda messages on the website. how to deal with the threats, whether on the american home fronted or overseas has been debated since the 9/11 attacks of 2001. the c.i.a. is criticized for enhanced interrogation, torture to some, rendition, kidnapping to others. domestic agencies like the federal bureau of investigation and n.s.a. came under criticism over confidential informants. undercover stings and spying. a robust response was demand,
but pushes back when it invades privacy, something that former c oo. amount chief wallsy exists does not make sense. >> you don't defeat people that are chopping off other's heads and crucifying them and forming mass movements to do that without penetrating them by spies, electronics, otherwise. and finding out what they are plotting to do. you can't just kill them with drones and expect to learn everything. you have to capture and integrate everything. ali suphon is an executive at a privacy consultancy advising companies and governments on security risks. he was an fbi counterterrorism agency taking part into investigations in al qaeda and other groups, and is credited in uncovering sheikh mohammed as the mastermind behind the september it 11 attacks. and obtained it during sessions with an operative. he wrote about his work at the fbi in a book entitled "the
black banners", saying there's a smarter way to fight the war on terror, by countering the narrative of a religious war that the groups pedal. more needs to be gun. what is the smarter way that i.s.i.l. and al qaeda are trying to settle. we have been successful in obstructing the plots. since 9/11, we were able to disrupt many terrorist attacks, protect the homeland, and they are tactical successors. the war has been a strategic failure, on the eve of 9/11, we had 400 members of al qaeda, today we have thousands of people who adheres to the ideas of obama. we have movement in nigeria, north africa, somali, in yemen, in syria, in iraq, pakistan, afghanistan, et cetera.
all believe in the idea of osama bin laden, and the ideology, as part of our terrorism, or the war on terrorism. we need to counter the narrative of the group, and we need to counter the reasons or counter the incubating factors that is leading into more extremism and conflict in the region. >> what do you see as being the factors. a lot suggest that it's the power vacuum that exists in the countries, enabling the groups to fill it. >> absolutely. the vacuum is a big one, but there are a lot of things that is leading into the vacuum, and there's no cookie cutter approach. look at nigeria, northern nigeria, where boko haram is based. 75% of the houses have no electricity, they don't know the meaning of electricity, when it comes to public health or
education, the worst in the world. look at yemen, you have 25 million in yemen. more than 50% of them live under the poverty level. poverty line level. for example, among the youth of yemen, more than 60%, and this is before the conflict. it's the rate of unemployment. >> you were known in many circles as being able to to g more information out of a fish sandwich than the united states got out of waterboarding. your techniques were to show compassion and understanding to develop a rapport. does is translate to dealing with situations like yemen or somali, or other places where they are having problem. the only way we can win a war like this war, it's when our tactics and strategy is in sync with wars and moral fibre as a nation. if we do something that does not fit, what the united states is
all about, they'll backfire. we have seen them backfiring. we see them backfiring in the interrogation techniques and with many tactics that did not work well. >> in the situation of yemen, where the abd-rabbu mansour hadi government was friendly to the united states, they were accused of being corrupt. the houthis were accused of taking advantage of that. what could the united states have done differently, because the united states saw them and a strategic ally in trying to base operations against terrorism. >> that's the problem. we focus on yemen as an ally, not a nation. we focus on yemen. will the government allow us to fly drones and get rid of a threat posed to the united states by a.q.a.p. don't get me wrong, these things are important. we cannot focus on one element and forget the other areas creating chaos.
>> what about i.s.i.l., given there's so many groups spread out between syria and iraq. how do they deal with i.s.i.l., caseworkers. >> i.s.i.l. is an offshoot of al qaeda, and i believe the only way to deal with them is two fold. you have to beat them militarily. number two, you have to drain the resources. when i talk about the resources, not only financial, but people and fighters as you mention in your report. we have more than 20,000 foreign fighters aidingies, and fighting with i.s.i.s. under the banner of the so-called islamic state. we have, you know, people coming from 90 different countries to help the group. we have an ideology proceeding over social media, creating chaos, and people in the united
states reading what i.s.i.s. is putting online and providing support for the group, as we have seen recently in some of the cases. what we need to do is focus on two different things, on defeating i.s.i.s. militarily and physically. it can't be done without our allies in the middle east, our coalition against i.s.i.s., and we have to take it a level more in countering the narrative, countering the money, the support that this organization world. >> by countering it, you mean the theme that they see this as a religious war, they are christians, and countering that so they can't use it as rocket fuel for their efforts. >> sure. if you look at i.s.i.s., they killed more sunnis than anyone else. they killed, you know, more iraqis and syrians, and they killed, you know, westerners.
so, you know, i.s.i.s. has been focused on eliminating all people in the middle east who don't believe in the ideas of i.s.i.s., and in the ideas of abu bakr al-baghdadi, and osama bin laden. it's the job of the people in the muslim world to stand up against the ideology and discredit the ideology. it's not the job of the united states or the western world. we in no credibility in talking about religion or what the real islam is about, it's the job of the people in the muslim world. unfortunately we have a sectarian issue in the middle east, and a lot of sectarian conflicts are used as a proxy war between iran and countries in the region. >> a former fbi agent and integrator, good of you to come. in next, whether you call it torture or enhanced
interrogation technics, my next guest feels it works. a former official gets a chance to make his case. back in 2 minutes. >> monday - a climate emergency. >> those species could not be here in 10 years. >> nasa steps in to help protect the future of the planet. >> the tropics regulate our climate. >> techknow heads to costa rica to see how one rainforest is fighting back. >> wow! some of these are amazing. >> techknow's team of experts show you how the miracles of science... >> this is my selfie, what can you tell me about my future? >> can affect and surprise us. >> don't try this at home. >> "techknow" - where technology meets humanity. monday, 6:30 eastern. only on al jazeera america. >> part of al jazeera america's >> special month long evironmental focus fragile planet
was evil... >> fault lines investigates the impact of the u.s. involvement in south sudan >> fault lines al jazeera america's hard hitting... >> today they will be arrested... >> ground breaking... >> they're firing canisters of gas at us... >> emmy award winning investigative series... >> we have to get out of here... south sudan: country of dreams only on al jazeera america [ ♪♪ ] philip was a deputy director of the c.i.a. and worked with the federal bureau of investigation, he used techniques to acquire safe. ize latest book: he joins us from washington. i want to pick up from a last
point, the point that the united states has not done a great job of being empathetic and understanding the root causes that some of the groups the united states is fighting in the middle east. would you agree with him? >> i think the problem is not with the united states, but the region. we are seeing a spasm of violence after the arab spring of 2011 across most place, with the exception of tunisia where we see revolutions, from libya, yemen, syria the question goes to a point we see in the middle east - what do people want - security, democracy, secularism islamist groups in power. people talk about the united states because we are a global superpower, as if we could solve the problems. these are not problems for us to solve. how do we want to be governed. >> regarding yemen, which we talk a lot about. the united states treated yemen as an ally in the war on terror,
and not understanding issues that they have with literacy poverty, and as a result we prop up a government na was corrupt, creating conditions where you have the houthi rebels able to kick the government out and the united states is facing a disaster there. >> i think the problem with the suggestion that the united states should solve this is a problem of breadth. if we are responsible to protect america is to fix places, where people do not have food, or water. let go to some -- somali, uhuru kenyatta -- kenya, jordan and other place, in theory it makes sense n practice it doesn't. >> does anything make sense in terms or engaging i.s.i.l., not in terms of dip loam assy, but
in order to stop them you have to defeat them militarily. >> there is something we have to think about for the future, and that is if you look at places where we have seen violence, like northern nigeria. regional coalitions are coming together to say this is a collective problem. the african union has been successful in somali. a regional group saying this is our problem, the americans can help us, drones have been affected. on place where is we had problems like this, same questions arising in yemen, do we help the pakistanis, and saudis. when we see problems like this, do we, in the background help the regional groups, instead of suggesting that the united states is disillusioned. >> do we have to do something in terms of the united states given the number of americans joining the groups? >> i think we do. let's not overstate this. in contrast to where we were when i sat at the threat table
with the c.i.a. 15 years ago, we don't face a major threat from a centralized organization that murdered nearly 3,000 people. we face a threat from an organization with an ideological appeal to a few thousand in the united states, a few hundred of whom who have been picked up. i'm not sure in an open society that we have a capability to tell people what they believe. i am not sure that the threat of i.s.i.s. is huge. it's interesting. a few people picked up, a dozen, more than dozens have an ideology that is unique that, it makes the new, i'm not sure that this is the same threat we faced from al qaeda, 15 years ago. >> a way americans thought we needed to deal with al qaeda was through enhanced interrogation techniques. knowing what you know now, do you have regrets about your position or the way that those techniques were used over the years? >> not really. there were questions, they don't have much to do with techniques,
but the political process that oversees the central intelligence agency. let me give you a couple of questions. what does america want. if there's a major ech in the country and the congress doesn't want the president to be under pressure, they should pass a law saying here is how we treat detainees in america. road. >> it's sort of irrelevant when out there you have to clear, according to the c.i.a. report and people that work there, that there was no real accessible intelligence coming from waterboarding or other enhancement techniques, more of... >> it's dead wrong. >> that's what the report says. >> absolutely - there is not a report much there's three reports. the sem et report from the democrats, a republican response, and a c ia response. the c.i.a. response acknowledges there were mistakes, including early on in the management of the programme. it was rough.
it is not correct to suggest that either one side of the aisle on the senate or the c.i.a. acknowledges valuable information was not gained. there were three reports, not one. >> what about abu sab ada, interrogated. he used friendly inches, compassion, not waterboarding, to get into his head. that's how we get the information about khaled sheikh mohammed, not through waterboarding. >> incorrect. he declined to talk. we had a responsibility in 2002 to say if we have a detainee near the center of al qaeda, what do you want us to do. we ask the justice. >> what about the person that did the interrogation... >> he did not do the interrogation. he talked to... >> he did the discussion with abu zab aider that produced intelligence leading to khaled sheikh mohammed that the united states knew he was responsible.
it came from him, not anyone involved in waterboarding him. >> look, the initial stage of the interrogation for a short period of time, i believe ali was there. during the linon's their... >> you believe he was there or he was there. he was there, you don't believe he was there, you know he was. >> during the initial weeks, that's correct. we had zooub aider for years, we had more than 100 al qaeda prisoners that we talked to over time. you want to tell me someone there for a few weeks of one interrogation tore individual nose everything we did and all the value. that is not correct. >> what we got came from a larger point. that's the approach the united states should take in the general sense instead of waterboarding, the united states should try to underpeople getting in their heads, a way of the getting the information that they need. as opposed to using techniques.
>> i don't have a core of that. if the american people through representatives believe they have an idea of what the c.i.a. should do in situations of high threat they ought to have congress pass a law. what i see is we have little understanding in the orgs niceation before detainees wept into the programme in the middle of 2002. when we forced the detainees to speak, our understanding expanded dramatically, i don't know what else. >> the book is "the head game, high efficiency, analytical, and the art of solving problems quickly", we appreciate you being on the programme. we look forward to having it back. thank you. >> my pleasure. >> vladimir putin is fighting his own battle for hearts and minds. not in russia, see what he is doing to drive a wedge through europe. ali velshi joins us from athens hey.
>> hey, greece made a $500 million loan payment today. normally you'd thing when somebody meets their loan payment things are starting to work occupant. greece's problems may be about to get worse. i tell you when "real money" returns in a minute. >> the peninsula, in arabic, is aljazeera. our logo represents courage. fiercely independent quality reporting. >> to take as much aid as possible... >> and standing up for the voiceless. when you see this symbol respected around the world it means you too can now count on all the things we stand for. aljazeera america.
>> al jazeera america brings you a first hand look at the environmental issues, and new understanding of our changing world. >> it's the very beginning >> this was a storm of the decade >>...hurricane... >> we can save species... >> our special month long focus, fragile planet the greek prime minister was in moscow this week talking about an economic alliance with russia, and the conversation is leading critics to ask again if vladimir putin is trying to undermine european unity. >> reporter: from the far right french national front, to greece's radical left, syriza. kremlin. >> it's clear that there's a set of the links between the russian government and fringe parties across europe. >> reporter: like a shared
dislike of european union dick tatts. europe's far left and right rail against brussel's encroachment on authority over issues like austerity and immigration. positions that dovetail with the kremlin's vment opposition to n.a.t.o. and ehue expansion into backyard. >> the russians like the idea that they can make common cause with someone within the west with someone denouncing the idea of expansion into russian - what influence. >> faith has proved fertile courting ground. russian president vladimir putin casts himself as a defender of traditional russian orthodox values, a roll that resonates with the conservative far rite. >> vladimir putin's willingness to embrace the russian orthodox church and the values that it espouses has
energized person european right wing groups and feel the speech is taboo. >> the kremlin's friend saw benefits, of there was refusal to lend to the national front. the far right party securing a loan of $10 million from a russian bank. can the kremlin's goodwill drive a wedge into europe? >> i think the kremlin will like to do what it can to undermine the effectiveness of the e.u., it's hard to imagine that it can do very much. >> reporter: the kremlin's friends denounced sanction, that is pretty much all russia has to show, underscoring how difficult it is to parlay a tactical influence. >> is it just as simple as vladimir putin trying to exploit the anti-austerity feelings in europe, or is something else going on?
>> he's trying to exploit the oint austerity -- anti-austerity feelings. you have to keep in mind the resentment is something that the radical left and right have in common. it comes back to an idea of european, brussels encroaching on sovereignty, that's a hot button issue. >> thank you very much. >> let's go to athens, where the host of this show, ali velshi, is standing by. hello, ali. >> david, today was supposed to be a big day for greece. there was a chance that greece might default on a $500 million interest payment. a repayment of the loan that the international monetary fund had given greece. greece received $280 billion so far in loans from the european central bank, the eurozone and the i.m.f. they had to make a payment. the new government that patty
was talking about, on the back of anger about the austerity that were imposed upon greece from the outside, in exchange for getting the loans, the european powers, and the i.m.f. said you have got to change things that are structurally wrong with greece. people retired too early getting the pensions in greece. a small proportion of the population and business paid tax. corruption is ramp pant. greece tried to impose sanctions, and what the government calls recessions. in addition to owing 286 million, youth unemployment is 50%, housing market is at a stand still, and things are getting worse, not better for greeks. they are frustrated. they were hoping for a hail mary pass with the prime minister going to russia. it didn't happen, they got on order from the international
monetary fund from the bank of greece. pay the debt tomorrow. which is today, and they made the payment. >> ali velshi reporting from grows, thank you. you'll see ali here on tuesday. that is our show for today. i'm david shuster, on behalf of ali velshi and the entire team - thanks for joining us. s. yes, civilians shouldn't do wrong things once we stimulate that, can we ask hard questions about how police are trained and how they react. it's "inside story". after the shooting of 50-year-old walter scott, a police officer told a story often heard in these cases, a