tv Real Money With Ali Velshi Al Jazeera April 25, 2015 3:30am-4:01am EDT
scary part is the earth is still shaking so nobody is going to their houses yet. so everyone is gathered around in small squares and on the main road wondering what will happen. >> okay, clear something up for me, i am -- i want to get two things -- >> the truth about taxes in america. politicians love to call to deep cuts to court voters but it all back fires when services are cut too. i'll talk to the man conservative power broker grover nor quist. >> what you're seeing here is the front line and the battle between man and nature. it is a scene that plays out all across the world but
particularly the tropic. >> i'm ali velshi. our special coverage begins right now. the gop playing field is already taking shape ahead of 2016. and as expected it will presidential candidates are peddling tax cuts to rally the republican base. but maybe they should consider. i'm getting to why in a moment but let me tell you what they're calling for. rand paul wants a 17 17% flat tax. and, replacing them with a 23% national sales tax. marco rubio wants to double tax cuts for families and bring down the corporate tax rate to 25%. now jeb bush who still hasn't even announced that he's running
yet breaks with republican orthodoxy. he said he could accept tax hikes on a deal on the budget. that's got republicans worried. when he decides to run because bush's views pit him against one of his party's influential activists, grover norquist, his group, americans for tax reform has convinced some 1400 incumbent officials to sign a pledge never to raise taxes, ever. but we're talking about cutting taxes now not raising them. and it's neat to see how tax cutting ideas already road tested in the states can offer clues on how they might work nationally. louisiana governor bobby jindal has pushed six big tax cuts since he took office in 2008.
sam brownback enacted sweeping tax cuts in 2012, both said they would raise growth by lowering tax credits. supply side economists now in louisiana, economic recovery has lagged behind the rest of the country. the state budget went from a big surplus to a big deficit forcing bobby jindal to make big cuts. in kansas, the governor is plugging holes in his tax policy he helped create. david schuster has the story. >> reporter: when kansas governor sam brownback instituted cuts to the income tax he said it would energize the state and turn it into an economic powerhouse. >> the state of our state is strong and blessed an leading america in a number of key areas areas. >> reporter: in attendance at
brownback's 2013 state of the state address was grover norquist who tweeted kansas was the center of economic thinking. norquist tweeted that of the six strongest republican candidates for president he was keeping his eye on brownback. but brownback's idea of eliminating a state income tax backfired. it presich take precipitated a down grade in moody's and standard & poor's. with kansas at the precipice brownback ultimately had to back down and propose a tax increase. norquist was outraged and in an open letter to the kansas legislature he urged state legislators to oppose governor brownback's proposal.
but one thing had become crystal clear, the grad plan was a complete failure in kansas. perhaps no one person epitomizes the movement than grover norquist, came up with a taxpayer protection pledge, a promise to oppose any tax increase. it has arguably become one of the most influential american documents of the 20th century. most republicans in the current congress have taken the pledge not to raise taxation. it has made -- raise taxes. t has made norquist one of the most powerful not elected persons in washington. but contributed to gridlock in washington and more republicans have distanced themselves from him. just listen to what house speaker john boehner said about florquist. >> not that i'm talking about
some random person in america. >> brownbacks once considered the poster child for are tax reduction, has become a pariah. nikki haley has distanced herself from brownback. >> we are not doing what kansas did. >> doomed to failure in the real world. david schuster, al jazeera. >> despite the problems in kansas, grover norquist still says, the state is annal example others should follow. how to restore a low tax high growth america. grover joins us now, thanks so much for being with us. >> absolutely, glad to be with you. i'm glad mr. shuster has taken
al hunt's job. al hunt used to say it every year but that's been 20 years that he's said it now we're hearing it again. >> let's discuss the facts. >> sure. >> kansas is dealing with a massive shortfall. since brownback took office. i think you said something along the lines that it took many, many years to develop this ineffective tax regime, don't expect it to turn around immediately. even kansas is calling for a shortfall, republican led legislature is talking about a gas tax. i'm just wondering does it not always come back to some tasms whentaxeswhen we cut income tax? >> let's understand what's happened in kansas. before the tax cut they were growing in their private sector job growth at 60% of their pure states. they're now at 90%.
so they've improved their position since they cut taxes. they were doing very poorly before, they're doing better now. they have 50 years of bipart dan big government that they have to move away from. second as the governor said -- >> we have to break these down in each part so we make sure we keep our viewers with us. >> sure. >> as kansas aimed to gain 2,000 jobs a month. in all of 2014, they created 12,500 jobs. >> this is obama's economy it sucks. >> it's sam brownback's economy. >> i'm comparing same area they've increased their position in terms of others. second brownback and kansas are committed to phasing out the income tax. that hasn't changed. the only conversation people are having is whether it's going to
take a couple more years to get there. the law says that every year that revenue comes in more than 2% up and would you have a more than normal growth in the nation, a little more than obama's economic growth, the income tax would be ratcheted down permanently, the income tax will disappear in kansas. not only is that not changing, of course all the people who made the criticisms of brownback did so before he got reelected when the people of kansas voted to reelect him with the tax cuts with the phase outs. >> although you and i have had the confidence since the phase out. i want to talk about the idea that you bring the tax down. your pledge talks about raising no taxes. republican legislators in kansas are talking about these taxes,
so is sam brownback also. you just think there's a budget hole it's going to fix itself somehow. >> no. you look at it and you see a budget hole. not enough taxes. i look at kansas and see 50 years' history of overspending. one of the things that the democrats said -- >> does that prevent you from seeing a budget hole? i didn't say more taxes. you and i must both agree that kansas has a serious hole. we might not agree with anything else but we have to agree on that. >> they have an overspending problem. they do not have an overtaxing problem. the idea that you have to fill with taxes is what the liberal democrats say. not what the reporters should be reporting on. they should bring a spending level down. spending on education has continued to grow every year since 2011 and it increased again last year. the argument that the teachers unions make that this shouldn't be a question of how many nontweemps have in schools which
is -- nonteachers we have in schools which is too many there, give them more money. they have been getting more money every year. >> let me give you another arguments. 300 million worse of projects the maintain roads and buildings will be put on hold in the next two years because of brownback's very specific proposal to transfer $132 million out of the state's highway fund. is that an overspending problem or is that a revenue problem. >> you have both the problem with the davis bacon act and similar legislation at the state level -- >> the davis bacon act means when you procure work for public works that the contenders for that work must have union workers right? >> must have union wages.
>> but kansas roads are not broken because of unions. >> you have a problem with more expensive costs than you should. the challenge -- okay look. in kansas they're phasing out the income tax and as you know maine has announced that's their goal, mississippi the house just voted to do exactly what kansas citykansasdid. arizona is looking to do the same thing, louisiana, whoever the next governor is. the model of phasing out the income tax by taking revenue that comes from growth and ratcheting down the income tax was done fishes in kansas and by then a dozen states to do the next thing. they are seeing a very successful model that is moving forward, i know they hate it but it's true. >> there are two republicans who hate it in kansas, one is overland park state representative marvin kleib who
>> i'm back with grover nor requisite. he's the founder of americans for tax reform. i'm just going to give you an opportunity to respond but i do want to tell my viewers about something else i want to get your views on something else something with a really dull name like supporters like the u.s. chamber of commerce is the
export import bank, some call it the ex -im bank. includes making and guaranteeing loans to overseas businesses that purchase products that are made by american companies. the bank also sells credit insurance to u.s. firms in case these customers don't pay them. that can help small and medium businesses get loans from private lenders because it's then guaranteed by a federal agency. here is where it gets interesting. congress has to reauthorize the bank by june 30th or it shuts down business are pushing to keep the bank open, they say its business is vital, the export import bank says last year, this is where i want to get grover in it approved 270 billion of financing that supported exports and the bank says through fees and interest it generated a $675 million surplus, to u.s.
taxpayers. grover, what is not to like about that? >> well, if some government entity is operating and making a profit it obviously need not be a government entity. it should be a private bank. that's a great idea. they should do that but should not take taxpayer dollars and hand them to corporations along political lines. we are at a 35% top rate. europe's at 25%. if we had a 25 or 20% rate given that our states add about 5% the subsidies wouldn't be needed. taxing businesses and handing some of them subsidies is not a way to get ahead. let's cut taxes and get rid of the subsidies. >> would you agree that canada and europe do generally speaking a better way of collecting taxes. most pay a lower rate, in america we have a higher
corporate tax rate and lots of companies pay none of it. >> we should be towards the canada zone, more around 17 or so in canada and we should have a territorial system like most other countries do and allow the $2 trillion in earnings american companies have made overseas to be brought back to the united states without penalty. you don't penalize somebody for bringing money back to the united states, you say thank you very much and get out of the way. >> but you would agree with me that when we say america has the highest tax rate there are companies like general electric who pay no taxes. >> we have a bunch of credits as well as dutions deductions and so on. >> you would be happy with lower rates. 15 or 17% tax rate but everybody actually has to pay it. >> yeah, you want full expensing for business investment but otherwise you should be taxing across the board. >> lets go to xm bank, 6.9
billion in total since they started. that went back to the u.s. treasury to reduce the deficit. >> right. and if they're actually making money, not because of a monopoly but because they're actually privately. there is no reason for government to do that. >> grover i've taken much of your time and i always appreciate it. thank you so much for being with us. >> you got it. >> grover norquist, his new book is end the irs before it ends up us. i don't often agree with what grover has to say but i think everybody needs to know what he has to say. it's easy to save the climate, but right now you have a firsthand look where lives already depend on it. >> i'm david arioso. i'll take you where carbon
trading is a tough sell. >> al jazeera america brings you a first hand look at the environmental issues, and new understanding of our changing world. >> it's the very beginning >> this was a storm of the decade >>...hurricane... >> we can save species... >> our special month long focus, fragile planet
trees give us oxygen and cleanse the air of excess carbon dioxide. that's why a growing number of companies are taking the threat of disappearing forests seriously. archer daniels midlands, far more economic incentives to cut trees down than to leave them standing. that could be about to change. we sent david arioso down to panama's rain forest to investigate. david what did you find out? >> ali here in panama there is a struggle, a bit of a microcosm those who allow on the rain forests to survive are battling against those whose liefltd livelihood
depends on forests. here in cangandee the answer is not so simple. it's 6:00 a.m. in panama. tribes from across latin america are gathering to assert their concerns about the threat of deforestation in their ancestral home land. their very survival depends on this lush tropical rain forest. but the livelihoods of cattle ranchers, farmers and ranchers depends on clearing this land. the logs of 1 billion acres of rain forest around the world in the last 40 years. that's nearly half the size of the continental united states. and for those like the guna who depend on the forest for their medicine their food and even their
clothing the outcome is slim. what you're seeing here is the front line of the battle between man and nature, playing out all across the world but particularly in the tropics here in panama, this kind of scorched earth is what the guna are fighting to stop. but a program like red makes trees standing alive more than they are dead. red means reforestation, protecting the forest from so-called carbon credits which can be traded and sold for cash. >> as a conservationist i finally see something that places value to the standing forest. >> reporter: ironically the people who depend most on the forest are blocking this safe the forest plan. to find out why we traveled deep
into the jung rl to a remote region known simply as the guna yellow. so we're heading up river to this indigenous village. you can see how thick this rain forest is, it just comes right up to the river bank. essentially this is the only way to get into town. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ so after a couple hours of liking and boating, we've arrived. the village of cangandie.
♪ ♪ ♪ the journey here is like a step back in time to a place where people still live like their ancestors. paints and beads all made of jungle fruits and plants. palm fronds and drinking water come from the river. yet many here feel their world is rapidly changing. a man named kito took me down river to explain. so basically he said this is the old village, it moved in 2010 because of increased flooding. they essentially had to move the entire village away. >> just a three hour bode ride boat ride,
authorities are making plans to relocation thousands of local residents. worldwide sea levels are rising by more than 30 millimeters every year. as low lying communities like these islands where the guna also live are slowly being swallowed up. many scientists blame it on the recent greenhouse gases. that's why the limit to sharply limit deforestation is all about. trees are like sponges which absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. when they are cut down, they return that gas into the air. carbon dioxide are released back into the atmosphere when trees are felled. >> if you put together the emissions from cars, planes, railroad, the entire transportation sector burning
diesel, gasoline, all of it together doesn't release co2 into the atmosphere as the burning of forests. >> and that brings us back to our journey are to cangandie and why the villagers oppose red. one thing become clear is assigning value to trees, that goes against their culture because you can't put a price for them at least on the rain forest. there is always a refntion when programs are brought in from the out, they go against the tradition and what we know. >> in panama one fifth of the country is governed by tribes and most of that land is covered by rain forest. so when it comes to red, the tribes have to approve it. >> unless the project is their own project. you don't have a project. >> reporter: and there is reason to be skeptical. under the red program, a country
like panama must self -- police. in other words, it can say it's aggressivelily protecting its forests and receive its rewards but it's not clear if the u.n. would really know if advertise. and that is the dilemma of a 21st century approach to ain gent forests and ancient people like the guna. it's a matter of sacred trust. >> so obviously there are still a lot of obstacles to overcome here but those who are in favor of carbon trading say they're still optimistic. one thing that's clear though is the importance of trees to the environment and the carbon that they sequester. as we go forward and look for solutions the idea of deforestation and preventing it is one of the problems that the global community is going to have to overcome. >> all right, david. that's our show for today, i'm ali velshi, have a great weekend.