tv Third Rail Al Jazeera September 7, 2015 12:00am-1:01am EDT
lasgorillas have been born this year. they are adorable. richelle carey new york, thank you for joining us. "third rail" is next keep it here. tonight, silicon valley is a intertonight, silicon valley is a major growth engine for the u.s. economy. some say it represents the future but does it come at a price? is the tech industry harming u.s. workers? and later in our panel, racial stereotypes is conforming and demeaning but some say it's helped them, are they right? >> and police have agreed to wear body cameras.
but racial groups are disturbed, why? i'm imran garda, this is "third rail." >> information technology workers are being laid off and replaced by workers from indian. >> they don't take jobs they make jobs. >> replaced by cheap foreign workers. >> when people come over on cheap h 1a visas,. >> we brought in h 1b visas. >> we wanted the best and brightest to come here. >> this will create more jobs for american workers. >> america has a secret weapon, the h 1b. >> tonight we have robert hoffman, a consultant at heather podesta and partners, and a son
of indian, a research assistance at the economic policy institute and co-author of the book outsourcing america. >> gentlemen really great for you to join us. is the tech industry hurting american workers? >> absolutely, it is undercutting american workers. >> how? >> certainly in a number of ways. h 1b visas, the research you talked about on edison, disney, syracusxerox, where i used to w. >> what is h 1b visa? >> it is a guest vees, it gives permission for employers to bring in worker for a period of time. the worker doesn't hold the permit.
typically they have a bachelors degree or higher. for professionals white collar. >> robert hoffman, the h 1b was designed to help american businesses fill specialized positions, that's what they say, not to displace american workers but let's face it, that's what's happening, american workers are being displaced. >> you have to step back and look at the economy. just four years ago, the four pillars, ibm, oracle, microsoft, intel, had 4 billion workers among them. glassdoor.com, you will find 775,000 i.t. job openings in this country. skills report for 2015, they're going to need to ul fill 3.5 million -- to fill 3.5 million jobs. they don't think they're going to fill 2.5 of the five
million -- >> hold on. a recent report shows americans with nearly twice as many stem degrees, as there are stem jobs. american citizens are looking for work and not getting those jobs. >> that report uses a misguided and misleading statistic on the stem economy. that report undercuts by 12 million the number of jobs that need some stem knowledge or stem education. that report wouldn't count the ceo of an up and coming company a workforce is not considered a stem worker. >> ron russia convinced by any of that? >> no i'm not convinced by any of it. let's look at the tacts. as robert knows, the firms using the h 1b tens of thousands of firms like he represent,
cognizant, the only reason cognizant brings in 9, 10,000 per year on h 1b is they can be paid less. this is not to fill a skills gap, it is because the workers can be paid less. >> 775,000 job openings, are you saying there isn't 775,000? >> there is no measurements for that. >> people filling out on glassdoor.com? >> let's look at what the h 1b visa program is used for, for ordinary i.t. work, like infosys like tata. they're not filling skills gap, to train their foreign replacement. >> that's the difference. the problem that we have is there are hundreds of thousands of jobs that are going unfilled in this economy and unless we address it with better workforce policies, education and training policies, those jobs will find
their way offshore. the h 1b myth that he's been parroting for i don't know the last decade i think does not match up with the reality. for him to be right the president of the united states would have to be wrong. economists from across the spectrum would have to be wrong. >> adding to the president mark zuckerberg, mark bloomberg are they all lying? they're saying there's a shortage of stem workers. >> to pump up supply, new think they don't care about wages, wage fixing scandal google conspiring with apple, conspiring with ceo the late steve jobs to keep wages down, to hundreds of millions of dollars settlement on this. they have an interest in keeping wages down but let's are clear. it's not facebook, it's not getting google that's getting most of the h 1bs, it's
companies that robert represents. most of their workers are in india, their work model is not only to replace american workers, but to replace them with guest workers. h 1b program could only be used when you can't find an american worker. we know it's not being used that way. the majority of the program and hundreds of thousands of h 1stbs here, the majority is to replace cheaper american labor. >> the bizarre cases, two disney cases smaller layoff that was reversed and southern california edison,sce case, replaced their workers with h 1b visa workers. you're fine with defining a system like that?
>> first and foremost those practices are being investigated now. so ron is obviously correct to say that we should make sure the laws are being enforced effectively. this administration has done much for enforcement. take a look back at the bigger picture. >> the worker said the supervisor told the group, quote, we can get four indian guys cheaper than the price of you. i last heard that phrase in the gulf where there are not many good labor practices in the arab world. it is about the bottom line. this is the mentality we can get four indians for you you don't matter. >> first the bottom line. southern california edison disney not tech companies. what is i.t? i.t. is a fixed cost for any non-tech company. the whole purpose of i.t. is to
look for efficiencies. i empathize with those who are displaced. i've been displaced on several jobs and on the wrong end of interviews than i would like to remember. the reality is take a step back. you are suggesting that if we focus in on southern california edison and disney that somehow southern california edison and disney are going to throw up their hands and say you're right we shouldn't try for efficiency. >> are you providing a false choice here? >> absolutely not. absolutely not. because the problem is what you're oning to is the means to achieve these efficiencies. the reality is, let me finish, let me finish. it's not just the issue of efficiencies through h 1b which again if there are efforts to do things in sir couple vengs of
the law they should be punished. absolutely. >> hold on, let me give you an example. you could make al jazeera america much more efficient by taking a 50% pay cut. that's what robert's saying. >> no it's not. >> workers in america should take pay cuts. these are not immigrants these are guest workers right? this is employment policy. you're intervening in the labor market to increase the supply of labor of these workers. why are you intervening? your payment is for skills gap but in reality it's for profit. not to say these companies are villains right? bob eiger who is ceo of disney, lobbying for more h 1bs so he can replace his i.t. department with foreign guest workers. >> no -- >> the profits. >> but the funne fundamental prm and what both of you are escaping is we do have a skills
gap in this country and again for ron to be right it would require a conspiracy so vast involving the government and the private sector that i wouldn't be surprised if there's a white paper at epi that [simultaneous speech] >> hold on now we mentioned zuckerberg and president obama. 50,000 members of partnership of the new american economy, founded by michael bloomberg. >> and the qualcomm ceo just laid off 5,000 workers. and the h 1b program [simultaneous speech] >> the program is used almost exclusively, not exclusively but the. mood of it is used for ordinary i.t. workers, ordinary entry jobs. wages that are 20% or 40% less than the average wage for the had a occupation. >> you are talking about [simultaneous speech] [simultaneous speech]
>> not for specialized people. >> you are singling out anecdotes. >> anecdotes? we are talking about tedges of thousands. cognizant is a company you represented [simultaneous speech] >> i know their business model fine. >> 30,000 american jobs that were destroyed. >> you're losing the message you're talking over each other. could you give robert a chance. >> you're talking about one via as a part of an immigration system policy that is failing to fill 775,000 current openings, an economy that is going to need per year 180,000 -- can i finish? >> we don't measure that in those sectors. >> i want to move on to diversity, it's a big issue big part of this debate. yahoo disclosed robert in july that african americans made up
2%, hispanics, 4%, facebook reported it employed just 81 blacks in its 5,000 workforce. tech workers tend to look like you or us, they're brown males from indian. would you agree with that? >> i agree. >> these practices lead to a lack of diversity in the workplace. >> i'm glad you're bringing this up. the fundamental premise of this, to get more science study, african american women or men and women, we wouldn't have the skills gap. >> so does it reflect the demographics that are at play in terms of the skills? >> no, it shows you tha that the employers are pretty bad employers. there's ram pant rampant age
discrimination that goes on in silicon valley. they're underrepresented in terms of both hispanics as well as african americans and with women. even compared to the job pool that's out there. there are people out there who are capable. the other problem here is tying back in the h 1b. these are entry level jobs that they're bringing my cousins in from indian to d india to do. they went to a boot camp with ibm for a couple of months learned the job. ibm could be doing that in the u.s. but because it's so much more profitable to bring over workers here. >> i'm glad rob brought that up. there was a study done 50 partnership of the new manner economy that you mentioned a while ago dx you can laugh all you want it's a better study that i've read that you have
authored. as many as 231,000 jobs were kept out of the economy. >> i'm going to let that be the final point in this part of the show. i need to take a break. coming up we talk to a tech entrepreneur that is say there aren't enough skills coming up. >> if there was a skills gap we would see wages rising very rapidly. >> and later on. >> my two youngest sons, if asian kids are in the class it's accelerated, the competition is going to be fears. >> i'm sorrfierce. >> the village is in increasing danger. the water is literally coming up around them there's no play to grow. us tennis association. >> we're about getting rackets in children's hands... >> building the game...
>> ...sky's the limit for growing tennis in america. >> and expanding access to play... >> at the end of the day, it's about the kids... >> every tuesday night. >> i lived that character. >> go one on one with america's movers and shakers. >> we will be able to see change. >> gripping. inspiring. entertaining. "talk to al jazeera". only on al jazeera america.
pass [ ♪ ] the u.s. is in a major rebound. >> the u.s. is in the middle of a major rebound. it's being driven busy technology. >> silicon valley's technology is booming. not showing signs of slow down. >> breathtaking profits, billions of dollars pouring in. >> there's a disconnect here. >> displaced american workers. >> as a result of this program you are unable to provide christmas presents. h1bs, it's economics. >> welcome back. joining us is bjorn billhart.
founder of inspire thank you for joining us bjorn. you could not have done it today due to the current cap and restrictions on these h1b visas, why? >> absolutely. when i came to the u.s., i came as an exchange student, went to college went to grad school and out of grad school i started my country. ron you were talking about entry level, i couldn't apply for a permanent visa. when i applied in 2001 when i started my company, there were enough visas for people like me to apply. know if we had the qualifications we could get the visa which would allow me to start my company with my two american co-founders. there have not been enough visas. the visas run out on the first day that they become available.
so if someone like me if i had graduated ten years later, in 2008 i couldn't have started my company. and right now, i probably would employ 30 germ answer. >> buanswer -- germ ans. germans. >> the argument is a different one. it's precisely the immigrant workers that create jobs. i think no one is working that there should be -- that workers should come in here and replace american workers. the argument is -- >> that's what ron is saying. >> thanks ron for speaking for me. >> even if they are entry level like i was, there is actually enough evidence and you just look at the number of fortune 500 countries that are founded by immigrants. 30% of countries that went ipo were found he by immigrants.
>> the restrictions are too tight now? >> they are not too tight they're really too loose. first off the h1b program, you can't found a company on a visa, it is a guest worker program. the ones that are using the h1b program the most, tata, infosis, [simultaneous speech] >> one out of 18 -- no. >> in terms of overall numbers. >> one out of 18. >> ron i mean seriously. >> 17 of 18 are not sponsored for green cards. tata sponsors no one. this is used for cheap labor. your story is not the typical use of the h1b program that we're talking about. isn't that important? >> it absolutely is, there are a
few isolated instances where -- >> let's talk about how many visas they got. they got 9,000 visas. >> here's the point -- >> one company getting 9,000. >> give him a chance. >> for an entry level like me, i was a graduate student, i had no family connections, i could not apply or the a family visa. there were not enough applications for me to apply. there is no path for me to start a company and ultimately contribute to the company and benefit american workers. >> you're saying your situation first off would be cut off. all we're talking about is raising wages. it's not to actually -- it's not to end the h1b program it's not to end the path to immigration. in fact you actually want to make that more fluid. the reality is what you're trying to do is ensure it's not being used for cheap labor. that is being used for skills --
>> bjorn is making a good point, at thisitting on an immigrationy that is about 30 years old, when the economy was one-third the size it is today. we're sitting on whatever you may say hundreds of thousands of job openings. we do need better immigration training policies, to align american workers. the tech industry, in manufacturing and energy, need the american worker more than ever before because if we don't address the skills gap in manufacturing, energy and tech, those jobs will be elsewhere. what hasn't been discussed and it's tragic because we're all wrapped up in an h1b panacea. extraordinary individuals have to wait over ten years to get a green card and to bjorn's point
you can't get a green card. >> what we can't forget is the world hasn't salt still. when i came in the 'nigh there's was really only one country that people could start a company. the united states like many american entrepreneurs did and created an immense number of jobs. that is no longer the case. there are tech companies all around the world. [simultaneous speech] >> it could destroy jobs. >> all the data shows that foreign students are coming in record numbers to the u.s. >> and they get taken away. >> and the u.s. is still the most welcoming place. but let's be clear, cognizant, the company that robert represented they are not hiring graduates of u.s. universities. >> yes they are. >> 80% of cognizant's are
degrees -- >> they have been over the last 15 years one of the largest green card sponsors, right up there with microsoft, oracle and intel. >> you're not that genius that mitchiu okaku was talking about. you get first dibs because they can pay you less than an american end of story. >> the real issue is how do we maximize work in the united states, how do we create opportunity for work? why? work creates jobs, work creates wealth and higher incomes. bjorn is the poster child for that. i know ron says the skills gap doesn't exist but everyone else seems to think it does exist. but maximize work. >> if there was a skills gap we would see wages rising very
rapidly. we don't see that in the u.s. or in the tech sectors,. >> let me also point. >> in the top 30 starting salaries [simultaneous speech] >> let me -- >> bjorn needs a visa to get into the discussion. >> avoid. wow, i think the point is not whether you can pay someone $5,000 or less. it costs a company more than that to actually apply for visa. so it's absolutely false to think that it costs these companies less. the point is not that, it's not about what someone has on paper, a degree that someone has on paper. it's finding the person for right fit, the team that creates the right product -- >> but do you believe these are the geniuses that we're talking about these hand picked brilliant individuals about elsewhere? >> it doesn't neat to be -- >> it's about the bottom line that's all?
>> it's not about paying people less, it's about getting the right person for the right job and ultimately more wealth for everyone. >> you can't do that right now. >> just like everyone in austin texas right now we have an acute skills gap right now. if i can find someone that knows js on the front, they will get a job offer from ten companies. you cannot find enough good people that have specific skills that are needed to be competitive. >> right now the unemployment rate for computer scientists and mathematicians is 3.5%. >> which is extremely high. >> let me finish. in engineering it's 2.4%. he said it's very high. actually if you took an economics class you would know that full employment is 4.5%. that's underemployment. what is underemployment? that's a shortage.
>> the unemployment for lawr las is 1%. >> you're playing games, this is the problem with the discussion. you're playing games with the numbers of unemployment it would take a little time. >> let's move beyond all of that, let's just ask you ron what's your solution? >> very straightforward. you raise the wages so that foreign workers are being paid a fair wage so that when employers turn to the h1b program they're turning like bjorn is saying, because someone has specialized skills not because someone could be paid less. he is misinformed about how the program operates. >> that's current law. >> you just repeated current law. >> it's fair wage, not cheaper labor, that's what everyone says the intent of the program is. give americans first legitimate shot for the jobs, so they're not guest workers and workers
are not having to be trained, not displairsed by foreign workers -- displaced by american workers, blow the whistle and be able to speak out publicly. it's amazing that you weren't able to bring an american worker on here because they had to sign nondisparagement agreements with their employers. how outrageous is that? >> final word very brief. >> i think talk about wages is really missing the larger point that immigrants when they come here and apply themselves actually create american jobs. that's what we're all for. >> okay we have run out of time. i realize enjoyed this, robert hoffman, ron hera and bjorn, thank you. the third rail panel is next. >> reviewing the panel will help you get a much more accurate report. >> that gives distinct advantage to cops. >> you don't let them review a
>> drilling in the arctic. >> rapid change is always an alarming thing to see. >> as the ice caps recede... and the ocean opens up... how can we protect our natural resources? >> this is what innovation looks like. >> scientists reveal cutting-edge technologies... >> you can look beyond the horizon and extend your reach. >> that could avert disaster while helping save the planet. >> i feel like i have a front row seat for some very dramatic changes. >> on the next third rail, trean years after 9/11, after two wars and aggressive security tactics is the u.s. still powrldz to poo
stop the next attack? shifting to the most famous ceos. marissa mayor. julie gunlock, the author of from cupcakes to chemicals and curtis sliwa, founding teart off the guardian angels. marissa mayo has announced she is regular fapt, take limited time away there her office and slez will be working throughout the leave. is she setting a bad example? the company has 16 weeks of leave. why doesn't she take the leave? >> because maternity and paternity leave are intensely personal decisions. executives should be making decisions that are best for their families. if she made the decision, it
should be dedicated to her family and her work. i think women get an incredible package at yahoo. that's the limit of her responsibility to her employees, she offers both maternity and paternity leave. to suggest she has to make a decision to satisfy others this her company is i think a little bit inprop. >> you don't think young women in yahoo particularly young women who might get pregnant, think, she took two weeks, i don't want to take all this time off. >> i see the point but i think women of yahoo probably understands that the ceo of yahoo isn't going to come back to work in the typical way that others have to. i think with the first child that marissa mayo had, she had
help. most people understand, this isn't the typical coming back to work scenario. >> clinton do you agree? >> it seems to bother me every single move this woman makes is becoming a natural story. if she was a man what happens with with her family would not be an issue to discuss at all. that in itself is a worry as well, her ten-year-old son, you're forced to be under a microscope. that says as much about the tech community as anything. >> should we not be talking about her or should we also talk about how much time mark zuckerberg should be staying? >> look, to get to your point she came to would weeks, she is just doing what she wants to do, simple decision, it's a family decision as the ceo of course she's making one decision but as omom she's making a different one. they are not the same.
in this case people are conflating the two. >> curtis sliwa, what is your opinion? >> it's not american, there will be plenty of time to sleep when you're dead because your room temperature you take odirt bath, you're on the wrong side of the dirt. but she's a ceo. like carly fiorina, she was a ceo. when you are a ceo, they kiss your tukus. all the accouterments. if she was a receptionist, she would have nothing. she should have far more time at home caring for brand-new ababy, regardless how she came into the world, petri dish or old fashioned way or whatever.
>> discovered some stereotypes or some types of stereotyping, can actually be good. >> when people think of asian americans, model minority stereotype. >> they are perceived to be more sued use by nature. >> people expect them to perform well. >> it doesn't feel like pressure, it fields like scaffolding or wind at their sails. >> the question is can stereotyping maybe be a good thing curtis? >> doggone good thing. because i'm a serial marrier, i have many wives many children. but my latest venture, my two youngest sons with the convenesboro president melinda katz, is accelerated the competition is going to be fierce with math and science and they're being raised jewish.
i'm a gentile. that's the way i was a kid, there were enough jewish kids in the class. >> the other side of the coin, stereotyping, it's generally racist discrimination it's mean. >> no no no. the italians like i am, the way the mexicans are treated from the peasant class. there wasn't -- >> is that going to be motivating to you? >> absolutely. all of a sudden they're in with the asians and jews, southeast asians now, highly motivated academically. it rubs off you. sometimes you go home they look at you, why you got to have a book in your hand? you are a construction worker, you're going to have to go out and earn money. there's not propensity to earn money. >> this is insane. motivating kids is what's called
teaching. you don't have to worry about stereotypes. that is their job, as well as the instruction of the materials. if we want to look at what we're talking about here, the public and private schools is clearly at a problem point if we're worried about stereotypes to get kids to learn. the reason you're required to go to school is that -- >> this one had told a student she was a c student, raised her grades and graduated with a 4.2 average. >> but that's motivation. >> plugged into a general stereo time. >> my point is, i don't know, i'm trying out for a basketball team. if somebody makes me a starter just because i'm a black guy, doesn't mean i didn't want to do it beforehand. it just means you're in a spot where people are paying more attention to you, which is my point exactly. teachers should be doing that
anyway. >> from the study that was cited it is really fascinating to see how high expectations if i expect certain students schedule and treaexcel,to really be carer stereotyping certain children. i think the study also said that black and hispanic students are not thought to be -- teachers treat them like they won't excel. i think it's important for educators, i think this study is only important to tell, and parents and educators, if you treat students in a certain way they realize might meet your expectations. so it's really important that we treat all students -- >> but look at your caps, sorry we can't accept you, why? we have hit our limit of bright young asian students.
we hasn't cap them because they're doing well. i want to follow in their footsteps, there's a lot of peer pressure on them and others to do well. we need to learn something. >> that's a different matter. >> let's go back to the basic sort of classroom level discussion of a teacher telling a black kid who would rather be in the library telling the black kid, you should be running the 100 meters. >> that's not going to come from the teacher, that's going to come from his home boys and home girls. what are you studying for? come on. >> that's unfair. >> the peer pressure is to dumb down young black men and women in the country. the hip hop nature right out of compton is outrageous the way it stereotypes blacks. >> stereotype is a little bit -- listen that's ostereotype for a reason. do you think every single kid out of the corner is going to be worried about his street cred?
that's nonsense. that's the purpose they serve in the community to motivate kids to be better of themselves and to learn something to make society a better place. >> got to be pressure of your own kid. >> got to be pressure -- >> to do what the parents or those who are mentoring them are not doing. >> it's not about pressure is what my point is. it doesn't have to have such a negative stigma, to motivate, is what we're getting at. stereotypes involve negative stigmas, you're talking about wanting kids to live better lives and that's never going to have a negative impact on anybody. >> the study also found among chinese implants of the u.s., 60% of the men and 40% of the women had bachelors degrees. comparing to 28% of general american, only 27% of latinos
drawing. is this a stereotype to launch? >> i think that teachers work with these kids every day, they see this and they also have to struggle with parents who might not be instilling good values, about education, peer groups that might also not be instilling good values about the importance of studying and doing well. but i do think that in the classroom it is important that educators are careful about how they treat students. and that they treat everyone equitably. it is clear from the asian examples this that study that if you tell a child, or sort of give them the feeling that they have to excel, they do. and i think that other demographics can do so as well. i think so often it's limited to the asian kids. >> about motivating kids.
>> exactly. >> let's move on. lapt policl.a.p.d. police officw queameequipped with body camera. >> officers will be allowed to review footage before providing their reports. >> increased transparency and accountabilities. >> giving the officers the advantage of looking at the video just betrays that principle. >> does it betray the principal? cops have the footage but they can review it before giving internal statements, giving statements to those internal investigators. >> first of all each police department have their nuances. but when you talk l.a. you're talking row bow cops. these men and women are impervious to human sentimentality. they are not real cops.
i call them faw faux cops. they locked me up 76 times cops in general. you need watch them, including the time they are pounding down dunkin donuts, do not let them look at the film and let's just say cultivate their testimony. >> but the footage is an objective view of what happened. >> like clinton saying to his secretary, i want to refresh your memory so you can alter it. they should have the memory intact period. >> what about you? >> i don't agree. violent situations i think your memory isn't always a good source of information.
i think reviewing the tape will help you create a much more accurate report. >> also the cop has the first option of maybe altering the narrative because maybe the picture can't tell the whole story right? >> they can't alter the tape. as long as policies are in place they can't alter the tape in any way change it, i in order to wre accurate report they should be allowed to review it. >> we saw the instance in charleston, south carolina, when the officer shot someone in the back, attempting to change the scene, we aren't going to have that anymore right? which plays into his point curtis's point that sometimes cops lie. they try to alter the scene of the crime if you like. >> this is problem inherent by is you have to add an extra level of trust to law enforcement, where a lot of people the initial level of trust is not there. so hopefully the idea of having
a camera on you will affect the decisions you make before you do something. however if you have a situation where you have a video tape and you can digital manage it -- >> they don't have final cut pro on their laptops and not going to edit it. >> if you are not going to edit -- >> the cops can't alter it. >> this is what people's concerns are, if you leave the decisions up to the people that are most responsible for it obviously it will go -- >> this is the equivalent of a lineup and i've been before many lineups, when you were shot or stabbed. you get one look, one look only. you either get to pick the guy or that's it, you don't get to reviewing any film. it's fair and square, based on your memory whatever's intact. you would love to refresh your
memory, that gives a distinction option to the cops. it's blue wall of silence, they don't drop dime on one another. one what is the last time you saw a cop drop a dime on one another? >> do they disoarve have a desea supervisor? >> i don't want them permission to turn it on turn it off. let the camera always run at the end of the day, then you can start the film all over again. >> i think they only turn it off i think i'm wrong, i think they're instruct to tush it on when they start engaging with a person. >> i know when i lived in d.c, if you were filming everything it would create too much work as far as reviewing that tape. if that work saves one life or
prevents one crime, so be it. that's part of policing. >> given the nature of the badge is prestige of the job don't they deserve -- >> don't forget about the gun. critical part. >> don't they deserves some level of -- deserve some level of trust, you're a civic servant, you're doing a job, we trust your narrative? >> listen to what you're saying. where are the purpose of the cameras at all? it almost contradicts itself to say oh well yeah, we're going to have cameras, you need to let us review them first. that's the whole point. >> this will validate a good or bad cop, they said yes they did the right thing but it will flush out the rogue cops, cowboy cops which i've run into. nobody in the department would rach out a cowboy cop. great case in baltimore, the
driver of the police wagon took him on a rough ride, did you see anyone chime in saying yes, he did, they went to their attorneys and took the oath of omerta and they ain't saying nothing. >> i want you to base on your knowledge of the swais and let n intact exappe what happened. >> we have run out of time. thank you very much for it. fighting for their town in alaska. >> being resilient is a huge part of their existence. >> if you move then we lose our identity.
address. >> if america threatened to wiem out a town, we would do everything possible. climate change is threatening that right now. >> one of those towns, a small coastal village, one of the first american towns to become submerged by rising sea levels. libby casey joins us. army corps of engineers estimates the town will be engulfed. >> the president is coming to see how the people live and how clievmenclimate has changed. people in kuvalina, they have a lot of statewide politicians coming and the question is
always: what happens after everyone leaves? and so people are focused on what the president's visit will mean in the long term. will it really change anything. >> lobby let's take a little look at some of your reports. >> a nupiakesquak eskimo reliesn what he sees and eats. that's getting harder. >> i see a decline in the bearded seal take for the whole year, my family's just got one. normally we end up with 14 or 15 bearded seals. >> not only is it harder for hunters but the village is in danger. the tribal chief has to figure out what to do. >> i worry about the entire community. this place identify us as a people. >> so if you move -- >> we lose our identity, we lose
who we are. >> i'll help them move but i won't leave myself personally, i want to die here. it's my home. >> lobby you have spent many years of your life in alaska. the viewers look at the pictures, it doesn't look like much. what's so important to these people that keeps them there in the face of this threat? >> beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. and you're not going to see man cured lawns in arctic vil alwaysvillages.you might see snn someone's front yard, you might see a shed that's lopsided and tacked on to a house. what you have to remember for these people the front yard is not their kingdom, their castle. where they spend their time is the wilderness, the yupik were
notice mattic people, their version of home is the natural land around them . >> libby, all the years you spent in alaska, how does it make you feel that they are facing this threat and sinking away? >> i'm an east coaster by birth but an alaskan by choice. i planned to spend just a summer but i stayed more than ten years. one thing from living in alaska the people are incredibly resilient. the alaskan native people are resilient, it's part of their culture. it attracts me and many, the people here have to be involved in the choices what happens to them next. there's a history of outsiders and telling a native alaskan
what to do, stopping their way of life, their drumming their dancing having to settle down. so it's time omake sure the people here are the ones calling the shots. >> libby casey, good to see your experience, in anchorage, alaska. that does it for our show. the conversation continues on aljazeera.com/thirdrail. i'm imran garda, good night.