tv Inside Story Al Jazeera October 16, 2015 2:00am-2:31am EDT
ideas about life in general. that's our show for today. thank you for joining us. two people, one patch of land and permanently contradictory visions of the future. tensions have been rising in jerusalem and israeli occupied areas captured in the 1967 war and still disputed territory. palalestinians are attacking and promised land? it's the "inside story." ♪
elcome to "inside story," i'm ray suarez israel controlled a piece of land that used to be part of jordan since the 1967 war. in the intervening years jordan has dropped its territorial claims, israel has allowed and, in fact, encouraged hundreds of thousands of israelis to move to the captured territory and at the same time israel has not annexed the land and made it part and parcel of israel. in the weeks since the early 90s oslo and all but complete denunciation of a two-state solution tensions and violence have been rising between arabs and jews. on the west bank of the jordan, in israel itself and especially in jerusalem. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu
places the blame squarely on the palestinians and the leader of the palestinian national authority. >> i've called on the president abas to resume unconditional negotiations immediately. right now as we speak we can meet. i have no problem with that. i think we should stop meetly the wave of incitement against israel and these attacks. murdering attacks against jews. i'm willing to meet him. he is not willing to meet me and you can me about the resumption of negotiations. come on, get with the . >> translator: these days the israeli aggressive assault against our people and its land and its holy places is escalating and the racism is showing its ugly face and is making the occupation uglier and threatening peace and stability and threatening to spark the religious conflict that would burn everything, not only in the
world. >> al jazeera's carl has been reporting from jerusalem and he joins me now, carl welcome to the program, what set this off or does it really depend on who you ask? >> well, that is always where you might imagine it does depend on who you ask. but i think you can trace the most immediate causes to the current wave of violence to mid september when tension erupted between muslims and jews over the mosque compound in jerusalem's old city. under a longstanding political agreement designed to keep the peace, jews are allowed to visit that site but are not allowed to pray there. it is of course revered as one of the holliest sites by muslims and jews who call it the temple mount and so when jewish holidays came around in september there were a growing number of requests to visit by jews and that sparked fears by
palestinian muslims that the israeli government may be getting ready to change the political arrangement, the so called status quo, at the mosque compound and possibly even allow jews to pray there in the future. and that also set into why suspicions that perhaps the israeli government was trying to push and try and lay claim to ray. >> well, running alongside your report we've seen pictures of israeli troops and palestinians civilians and is the army much in evidence as you move through the city in all its parts? >> well, i think when we talk about the israeli security forces in general there is a very heavy presence in jerusalem, we are talking about regular police units, border police units have been drafted into jerusalem and then in resent days the government has said that it will send in israeli soldiers on to the
streets to bolster police operations and then as a part of a package of beefed up security measures what we have seen over the last couple of days is israeli security forces throwing up concrete quarters at the access points to some of the palestinian neighborhoods in occupied east jerusalem. that the israeli government says is designed to stop potential palestinian attackers from coming out of their neighborhoods to launch those attacks, however, if you are talking about control, remember the kind of violence that we have seen so far relatively random, low tech attacks and those are very difficult to stop, ray. >> the temporal mount in jerusalem's old city is one of the most visited places on earth and you can usually find people from all over the world there, if you head to that part of town now can you gain access to it? is it heavily guarded? are they allowing people into the compound that includes the
mosque and the dome of the rock? >> the problem is of course the tightnessed security there and through the old city you are subject to the searchers at the entranscript gate and metal detectors in the city and as a visitor the rights are very much curtailed because of rising tensions and israeli government are trying to stop muslims under the age of 50 getting into the mosque compound especially at friday prayers because they feel that that could lead to further tensions, ray. >> that is al jazeera's carl reporting from west jerusalem and joining me to discuss the escalating violence and the dangers of a third is matt the president for the foundation of middle east peace and manager of public information at the center for security policy and a palestinian blogger for the site mondo-wise and is there any longer a peace process?
>> i mean, no negotiations clearly and have not been or at least high-level negotiations palestinians since the break down of the kerry process last spring. but i think there is an increasing understanding that the old paradigm of the peace process as it was known under the oslo accords coming and going into the 2000s, that paradigm is ending, if it's not already over i think we saw i mean certainly on the ground the israelis have been working to end that paradigm but abas' speech at the u.n. it was full of all kinds of rhetoric, it was fairly low on specifics. but i think we can say that that was another step toward closing the door on that era. >> same question, that phrase peace process has been so much a part of our conversations about this part of the world. i'm wondering whether if it really even applies any more. >> well, i don't necessarily think it applies any more
unfortunately, since the early 90s, since the establishment of the peace process, there have been claims that the palestinians had been violating the accord since its inception and we continue to see that and unfortunately abas' rhetoric at the united nations saying that they are going to be the -- they are not going to be the only ones still abiding by the courts, i believe it's just generally an farse and it's a continuation of the rhetoric that him and his top party said passed. >> what is the practical effect of all of that if both sides are sort of saying oslo is over where does that leave the palestinians and leave the young guys we are seeing the street at troops? >> well, the guys that you are seeing taking to the streets
today are largely a product of i would argue modernization and alienation and they are young in their 15, 16, and up to early 20s the peace process that began in the 90s was not existent and palestinian leadership. >> oslo is older than they are. >> effectively, yes, but as they grew up to wanting and desiring to take part in what is going on on the ground, they have been marginilized and also by the political dynamics and the divide between hamas and da and fueled frustration with youngsters who are taking to the streets i would say to simply be head, to tell the leaders and everyone else that we ought to have a voice because nobody has been listening to us and they
are the one whose have been suffering the most and palestinians just as young who lost opportunities to receive education abroad because of restrictions in movement. i know palestinians just as young lost family members and family members in israeli jails held illegally, these youngsters have ground up dissolutioned with the political process with their life. >> when you say they want to tell their leaders, you mean not just benjamin netanyahu but tell their own leaders. >> absolutely, absolutely, primarily leaders at home. one thing if you recall i believe it was last year or two years ago, i'm not entirely certain of the actual date but palestinian president abas did hold a meeting with israeli you youth. and welcomed by many in an effort to engage with the israeli public i can tell you palestinian youth was not happy. not one meeting like that in his entire leadership was held with his own flock, not one.
>> we are going to continue our conversation. the head of the palestinian authority blames netanyahu for the violence and netanyahu lays responsibility between confrontation between soldiers and palestinian men and boors -- and doorstep and what could charge and counter charge when they announce the way for peace talks in the early 1990s, can the status quo hold or does it simply guaranty more of the same. promise land? it's "inside story." ♪ >> oil in the arctic. >> we're the eyes and the ears here in the arctic, we wanna be prepared. >> as the ice recedes and potential danger builds, can science keep a step ahead of disaster? >> we can't go back if we have a significant accident. the oil will make its way into the ice. >> techknow's team of experts show you how the miracles of science... >> this is what innovation looks like. >> can affect and surprise us.
you are watching "inside story" i'm ray suarez and early today prime minister benjamin netanyahu called on the head of the palestinian authority to stop the incitement, stop the provocation and netanyahu says it's fueling attacks on israeli civilians and palestinian for this starts earlier with attacks on palestinians so again the two sides are locked in seemingly irreconcilable and fruitless attack and counter attack. matt and alex are still with me, alex how do you break that cycle? >> we've seen it a lot before. i would suggest you break that cycle with education.
you break that cycle by making sure that not only the people who are educated about the issues and people are educated about other people's cultures but you make sure that education that people are receiving especially i would say the incitement of education that you see in the palestinian authority where you see textbooks that say kill the jews and see television shows that say stab an israeli, it's okay, you do your best to eliminate the incitement and you educate people on their culture and you end kate israelis on pal stint crayon culture and you educate palestinians. >> sounds like a long-term solution about something and killing each other right now. >> unfortunately i don't think there is a short term solution other than putting up checkpoints and stopping people and interrogating them and making sure that the violence ends through the use of force. long-term we must look at the long-term of educating people
and trying to get people to come together in more unified fashion in that regard. >> right now in israeli cities palestinian workers can't enter to go to construction sites for instance because there is a feeling that right now they have to be kept apart. so is this really a two-track solution, as alex suggests, something long-term like education and also kind of a trial people? >> well, the formula that ultimately a solution is a divorce rather than a marriage is proving really complicated to enforce in an area as small as jerusalem. and we are two nations that have grown and if they want to admit it and extremely independent on each other in many respects and i would begin by suggesting and disregard that the idea of education is extremely essential but it does take two to tango
and arabs who live in the proper tend to have problems with educating their own societies about what it's like over the 1948 and these are the education curriculum that are by the administers of education and laws and regulations which they are entitled but ultimately takes two to tango. >> take that as an example, the catastrophe as it is called in arabic should you be able to sit in a classroom in iz raldz on nazerith and hear about what is happening in the countries? >> that is a situation and unique and complicated as that it's essential and not necessarily to prove a point but reconcile. you have to understand the ultimate disparity is about this in the big picture and look at details and timelines with the
confrontation and hostility and pretend this is it, there is a much bigger picture going on here that as long as nearly the case of an experienced of a historical narrative with two people and not just one people but invariably the problem here is one people quite frankly has the upper hand in the equation and he who pretends otherwise has not been living on planet earth and has the upper equation and need to come to the terms with the fact they are the people next door that doesn't have as much power, as much prestige or place in their own society even palestinians with israeli citizen and can deal with it. >> when americans get involved and try to wade in are they conscious of what we just heard from alex and dorgam? >> i think some are and americans in general tend not to be aware of realities on the ground and what you asked about incitement and i think it's worth looking at the security forces have been saying about
abas and reports from the idf that recognized that he is actually working to control terrorism and to work very diligently on security but the problem is you have a situation of occupation which is a form of incitement every single day so the idea that you need textbooks to make pal stinl -- palestinians angry is silly and enduring harassment and violence every single day and think that is the context that is missing and this is not to defend terrorism and i think the attacks are horrific but understanding this context of daily violence and humiliation is extremely important. >> yes, stay with us, do israel and palestinians have anything to talk about as they continue fighting? is oslo well and truly dead? is the two-state solution still the preferred outcome in american foreign policy dead as well? and when israelis and palestinians talk about a one-state solution are they talking about two very different things? promise land?
welcome back to "inside story," i'm ray suarez american secretary of state john kerry will soon head to israel with scheduled meetings with the netanyahu government and kerry represents a u.s. government that still holds official policy support for two states between the jordan and mediterranean, israel and palestinian state living side by side in peace and security and two state solution nuture oslo and the white house and meetings with clinton and arafat seems no closer today than it did almost a quarter
century ago and matt and saline and alex are with me in washington and matt let's continue. what is the assignment for kerry when he comes down the steps? >> i think the immediate assignment is to help stop this round of violence to work with palestinian leaders, israelis and jordans have a role to play given the violence was originally centered on the temple of sharif where the monarchy has authority. but i think in the longer term i don't think we are going to go back to negotiations nor should we and i think the israeli and palestinian leaders distrust each other so much that is not realistic right now but trying to set the table. >> and the american and israeli leaders too. >> i think that is right but i think in the longer term trying to take steps that can arrest the decline of the status quo preserving the two-state solution and i think one important way of doing that is making clear to israelis that they cannot have perpetual occupation and security at the same time.
i think israeli security leaders have made this clear and former head made this point just earlier this week. so i think making clear to the israelis we continue to stand by you and support your legitimate security requirements but can no longer protect you from consequences such as sanctions and other steps that might be taken against the settlements. >> is there a role for the united states? does the palestinian authority trust the united states the way traditionally? >> well, i don't suppose it's just a question of trust. one can observe that throughout years of engagement palestinian authority is above all keen on making sure there is no confrontation or risk for the united states government, not just regarding israeli and palestinian conflict with other issues including the aid that it receives from the u.s. government. but at the same time one must also recognize that maybe 22 years of diplomacy on fluffy
talk delivered nothing worthwhile for palestinians on the ground. the authority has been greatly challenged because of its failure in that regard. looking at the shuttle diplomacy conducted by john kerry most recently which is more diplomacy than we are seeing in ten years regarding this conflict and it still didn't work. in terms of warning israelis they cannot have perpetual occupation and security at the same time and the point has been made repeatedly over and over again the issue here is that you do have a leader in israel today benjamin netanyahu who simply ran on a simple platform. there will be no palestinian state. that is what he assured his own constituents in videos that were leaked recently. this man is convinced of that goal. how exactly do you change that? >> alex van ess is that waiting for the netanyahu years are over and the obama administration has left washington? >> no, i don't think it is. and to playoff what he just said, netanyahu didn't mention
that but he mentioned that in regards to in the context of so long as the palestinians are inciting their people to go to innocent israelis and stab them the street corners there is not going to be a palestinian state. you see the top party advocating this, you see hamas advocating these attacks. >> he said there was a two state solution backed by the general election when they were not stabbing people the street. >> they were running them over with their cars is what they were advocating them. this is continuous incitement of violence on the side of the palestinians that the netanyahu is a realist and when it exists which is a violation of oslo and if it continues to exist there will not be a palestinian state. >> it's a conversation that has to continue and thank force being with us today and we have
a palestinian who blogs at the mondo white site and alex is the manager of public information at the center for security policy and matt is the president of the foundation for middle east peace. i'll be back in a moment with a final thought on states and whether they come by ones or twos. stay with us. it's "inside story." >> every saturday night. >> i lived that character. >> go one on one with america's movers and shakers. >> we will be able to see change. >> gripping... inspiring... entertaining. "talk to al jazeera". saturday, 6:00 eastern. only on al jazeera america.
48 years ago israel fought a war with his arab neighbors after a year of escalating military conflict with egypt, syria and jordan and they were routed and jerusalem was unified and had large numbers of pal palestinians under the administration and there are palestinian grandfathers in places who have lived their whole lives under israeli oversight. egypt made a cool peace with israel and got back the sinai peninsula, jordan relinquished and thought about the entity and what israeli policy makers mean when they say palestinian state is something they may already know the palestinians themselves
will never accept, a consolation of neighborhoods really, not really an intact, broadly contiguous area, tiny, fractured, home to hundreds of thousands of israelis criss-crossed by security roads patrolled by the israeli army without land bordering the jordan river with no army and no access to the dreamed of capitol in east jerusalem yet an annexation of the west bank is looked on with anxiety but israelis as well since granting full israeli citizenship to the non-jews in the territories would delut -- dilute them. and they are angry and a comprehensive settlement gets harder and harder to envision by the day, i'm ray suarez and that is the "inside story." ♪
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