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tv   News  Al Jazeera  November 24, 2015 6:00am-6:31am EST

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♪ turkey shoots down a russian military jet near the border with syria and says the aircraft violated the air space and pilots ejected from the plane and moscow says they can prove that the jet was not in turkish air space. ♪ you are watching al jazeera with peter live in headquarters and stopping violence between israelis and palestinians and two men go on trial in thailand accused of carrying out the
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bangkok shrine bombing. ♪ we begin we solving story and russian helicopters could be bomb agree area on the turkey-syria border after ankara downed a jet in the region of province in turkey near the province of latakia in syria, turkey says the plane was repeatedly warned before its military took action and russia confirmed the plane crashed it says in syrian territory but denies having violated turkish air space and syrian activists say one of the two pilots was killed and we are monitoring developments from a turkish city near the border and rory is standing by in moscow and lee barker is at headquarters in brussels and this is a moving story where you are, what is the
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very latest? >> basically the turkish army has just released a radar map with it says it shows the course of the russian s 24 as it got into the turkish air space and with a red line that it said was a violation of the turkish or the russian fighter jet and we've also heard from different sources that one of the pilots was killed and that the russian helicopt helicopters had been hovering in the area in latakia with a search and rescue mission. that mountainous area under control of the rebels so different factions are now operating on the ground trying to seize both pilots. there is an area further east
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which is still under the control of the syrian government so of the pilots that were ejected from the plane landed in the areas under the control of the rebels and it's going to be extremely difficult for the rescue mission that has been launched by the russians to sort of get hold of the two pilots. >> looks as if we are heading into a claim and counterclaim saying we were not in the air space and we can prove it and turks say yes you were in our air space and we can prove it and why would turkey lie about a russian aircraft being where it shouldn't have been, what would they gain from that? >> well, basically the official line so far from the turkish government that it was on the defensive because the fighter jet violated the air space and this is not the first instance of a violation of air space, it happened in the past to the point where for days ago the
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turkish prime minister summoned the russian ambassador in ankara with one warning basically that says if you don't stop pounding the areas on the border with turkey serious situation will follow. so the escalation and the rhetoric was there and do you know, peter one of the problems you have in that particular area is you have a long border area between turkey and syria where you have different military campaigns underway with different axis operating and russia launching operations against them and i.s.i.l. and some of those areas are on the border with turkey. this is exactly why the turks have been saying that we don't want to see any of those fighter jets crossing into our border or operating and pounding minority, syrian minorities particularly like the turkmen who live in
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villages in latakia just on the border with turkey. this is definitely something that would be raised in the near future between the two parties, between the turks and between the russians but i think we will put more pressure on the international community to step in and try to sort of agree on a protocol or vote of engagement about how to move forward in syria. one of the problems also is we have different actions taking on different targets and the russians saying they are basically launching an offensive against i.s.i.l. in the eastern part of the country latakia and also in areas that control in aleppo the turks at the same time have been providing assistance to the syrian opposition to take on i.s.i.l. in near aleppo. i guess the back drop of this jammed some air space traffic the potential for incidents like the one we saw today could be
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replicated in the near future unless we have a sort of final agreement about how to move forward. but with this whole growing tension in the region and the huge divide between russia and turkey about how to move forward in syria the tension will continue. russia has been backing bashar al-assad and said he should be part of any political deal. >> thanks very much so what do we know about this downed plane? it's reported to be one of these, a russian su 24 and super sonic and all weather attack airplane and introduced in service in 1967 and flown in almost all significant russian conflicts since then. russia is reported to have 12 su 24s flying from the base in latakia in syria and rory alcohol is our correspondent in moscow for us this hour so rory a significant day and bad relations or worsening relations
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between moscow and ankara and what do they do for a damage limitation exercise on this? >> well, the interesting thing about all of this and if you look at the two very brief confirmations of these incidents that have come out of russian officials that happened two or more hours ago, first from defense ministry and then from the kremlin, the russians have not actually acknowledged yet this plane was shot down by the turkish. they are saying that it was brought out of the sky. they said originally that they assumed that it was shot down from the ground, that it hadn't got into turkish air space or more specifically what they said is it always had been in syrian air space so at the moment there is no official confirmation from the russians that they are actually dealing with a severe diplomatic incident and if you
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watch russian t.v. at the moment they are entertaining on russian television the plane might have been brought down by rebels in syria and possibly nothing to do with turkish war planes so it's a difficult line the russians are trying to tread at the moment because as i've said all that when demetri was talking earlier on he said it was too early to say russian-turkish relations would be impacted by this and when asked about whether sergei fedorov was still going to be visiting turkey on weld he referred that matter to the foreign ministry. so it's almost as if the russians at the moment are trying not to acknowledge there is potential here for a big diplomatic incident. >> francois hollande is building his coalition of the willing and wants more practical backup from the americans and chances are he is not going to get it, when he
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talks to putin later this week in the last few hours force him to deal with the practicalities going on in such a crowded theatre of operations as opposed to going for and trying to define the bigger picture and direction of the bigger picture? >> i think most of the players in syria right now will try and make the fall out from this incident as limited as possible. there is going to be a strongly worded response from nato and of course turkey is going to be very upset about it too. but all the players in syria have been trying for quite sometime now, for at least a month longer to avoid this kind of situation so a month ago, beginning of october there were according to the turkish
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numerous violations of its air space by russian planes. the russians admitted to one of these and said yes sorry we did go in turkish air space and it was an accidents and we were only there for a few seconds because of bad weather and won't happen again. in the after mother of that there were a series over high-level discussions between the turkish and russian military to try and avoid that happening once more. there has also been a correspond ing airforce with the u.s. with deconfliction to make sure u.s. and coalition planes do not get entangled in the skies over syria and clearly a problem with at least one of these processes and looking at the incident we are seeing at the moment but whether that impacts on the bigger picture and on what each of these planes are trying to do
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in syria we can't quite say that at the moment. >> rory thanks and james base is the diplomatic editor joining us live in london and embarrassing for nato when they get together again in brussels. they can't at the moment because the city is pretty much shut down because of the security threat and when they do what will they be saying to the turks? >> they will be very concerned about this situation because what you have here is effectively an act of war by a nato member against the russians. the key question though peter and it's the obvious question is exactly where was this jet, the russians very clearly say they have evidence that all the time it was in syrian air space flying over syria and the question for the turks is did the turks issue all these warnings they said they gave to this jet when it was still over syrian air space warning it not to cross the border or had it at
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any point actually crossed the border. these sophisticated military jets have all of the data and equipment and cameras on board. it should be possible and both sides should have to release this data one would think to prove that they acted in a lawful way because it would not be lawful if turkey actually shot down that jet if it was still over syrian air space although they may argue they had self-defense because it was approaching their air space. >> we need relations to be good or nato would argue we need relations to be very, very, very good between nato and russia because of what is going on in the air and potentially on the ground fighting i.s.i.l. fighters given what they have been doing in syria. >> yes, trying to backup new efforts to try and confront i.s.i.l. and it is interesting there are two countries that intensified their efforts in syria, intensified their reaction, one
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is russia and has done it since the downing of the russian jet and after paris attacks is france and we will have to look to reactions to those leaders and we know that vladimir putin is meeting with the king of jordan in suchi and speaking to the media later on today and the other important place to look is to washington d.c. where the u.s., president obama and the french president francois hollande are meeting at the white house and are two key places and the other place as you mentioned is nato headquarters whether they have a meeting of what is called the north atlantic council, that is all the nato ambassadors deciding what to do about this incident. if turkey says that it was acting in self-defense, it had to take this action then potentially nato could invoke article five of its founding
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treaty the washington treaty that says attack on one nato nation is an attack on all but i think that is unlikely. i think at this stage i think everyone will want to try and stop the situation escalating. >> james base our diplomatic editor live in london and thank you very much and let's take you now to the heart of the story in one sense at least nato headquarters in brussels and to barker and when they get to work one can almost plan on what they are going to be saying about this. >> yes, and we imagine that process is going to be very, very careful and it's going to take into consideration all the different bits of information that are coming into nato headquarters here. so far no key statement has been given, no indication yet as to whether chief ministers military will be called here to nato
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command to workout exactly what their response will be. we know that because the heightened state of alert here in brussels that some staff are working from home and that nato command is essentially on lock down so that may well have an impact on the speed in which nato responds to this incident but we do know that on previous times where russia has apparently incurred into turkish air space the response from nato has been quick and it has been very strong indeed. as we heard from james there time and time again nato has resulted to reiterating article five of nato's founding principle really that an assault on one is an assault on all and with the turkish air space should be seen as in nato air space as well. we know that the turkish prime minister has called on the
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turkish and foreign ministry to open consultations not only with nato but with u.n. officials as well. of course all diplomatic channels are now open and this is exactly the kind of scenario that nato had been desperately trying to avoid ever since russia joined the conflict at the beginning of october when it began hitting what it saw as strategic targets within syria. the concern back then was that some of those targets may well be groups opposed to bashar al-assad but were actually being supported and sponsored by the united states. the concern at the time -- >> i'm going to interrupt you there because we do want to get to the next interview here on al jazeera and thank you so much for joining us out of brussels and we have a former brigadier general and is live from ankara and brigadier general at one level it comes down to if you
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leave what turkey says what happened or what the russians are saying about what happened, what do you believe took place in the skies? >> yes, there are conflicting statements by turkish officials and something and the government says something else and only god knows why and the president is involved in making conflicting statements itself. so there is much, much truth and certain facts this russian aircraft was shot down and two pilots ejected themselves and then turkey made it crystal clear that the turkish f 16 shot this russian aircraft down. it's a great development. why there are so many conflicting statements in such a short period of time? i think the turkish government is not managing this crisis
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through perfect of working crisis management and mechanism and then the turkish public opinion and the people's minds are as confused as somebody else's. >> turkish government is on record as saying to the russians in the past four or five weeks or so if you come into the wrong bit of our air space we will do something like this and today it looks as if they have done it. would you, if you had been running this would you have taken that decision to tell your fighter aircraft to down the russian aircraft given the relationship between nato, turkey and moscow? >> no, i would not. i make it crystal clear and under line no, i would not. the last thing the turkey or nato or the so called coalition
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needs at the moment is an escalating crisis with russia. this should not have happened in the first place. secondly, one needs to understand the psychological and political circumstances that this happened and hopefully it's an accident happened. during the last week and within syria, within syria and national borders some turkish ethnic groups called turkmans have been under heavy attack by russian and syrian forces. i believe this psychological environment and the political escalation within turkish domestic politics because the government came under heavy pressure and criticism by the political opposition for not doing anything contributed to this event.
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>> brigadier general thank you for your insight and appreciate your time on al jazeera, more on the website al jazeera.com, turkish fighter aircraft singular or plural downing a russian aircraft 24 one of the pilots that ejected from the russian aircraft is dead and we understand the other survived and on the ground and there are russian aircraft that are combing the area and it's mountainous and looking for the pilot who survived and moving on. john kerry met benjamin netanyahu in the region and there tying to help end the violence and since october many have been killed, in the most resent a tack a palestinian rammed a car into israeli soldiers and kerry says that israel has a right to protect
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itself. >> the terrorism, acts of terrorism which have been taking place deserve the condemnation that they are receiving and today i express my complete condemnation for any act of terror that takes innocence lives and disrupts the day-to-day life of a nation. israel has every right in the world to defend itself and has an obligation to defend itself and it will and it is. >> reporter: the police in france have found what they think could be an explosives belt and found by a street clean ner a bin south of paris and police trying to find out if it's connected to one of the paris attackers and still looking for salah abdeslam accused of helping to organize attacks. french president as we have been
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hearing that francois hollande will meet barack obama later today with concerns growing in the u.s. and roslyn has more now from washington. >> reporter: the attacks in paris shocked people in the u.s. and reminded them of september 11th so the question for the u.s. president from rival politicians and the press isn't it time for the u.s. military to take out i.s.i.l. >> equation has really changed, isn't it time for your strategy to change? >> have you under estimated their abouts? >> why can't we take out these b? >> given there are enormous sacrifices any situation it's best not to shoot first and aim later. it's important for us to get the strategy right and the strategy that we are pursuing is the right one. >> reporter: but there is appetite from the public for sending in u.s. ground troops even before the paris attacks 4 5
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54% supported the idea and 31 opposed it and then it jumped to 65% but in a third poll results were split, 44% supported sending american troops and 45% were opposed. the mixed opinions are evident around the country. >> america seeing itself as a super power then it's their duty and our responsibility. >> we can have our troops there for a year and get rid of i.s.i.s., great, but that is not going to be the case. >> we have tried that twice, right and didn't workout so well especially in iraq. >> reporter: obama administration says it had already been increasing its effort attacking i.s.i.l. oil supply and offering rewards for smuggling fighters into syria and increasing intelligence sharing with friends. >> as one capitol breaks up a cell another one breaks up a cell we have to connect the dots. >> reporter: on monday the u.s. secretary of state of state called for calm. >> what we need to do is not
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succumb to fear, people need to not panic. >> reporter: speculation that president francois hollande might ask the u.s. for more military cooperation, analysts say that won't be enough to defeat i.s.i.l. >> countries have to think about working together and under cutting the instability that allows i.s.i.s. to flushish and whether or not it's a war or politics in iraq but basically all these different conditions are what is allowing i.s.i.s. to gain supporters to survive despite u.s. bombing so far. >> with this approach to work the u.s. may have to ignore the emotions at the moment. roslyn jordan with al jazeera. coauthor of the i.s.i.s. inside the army of terror and joins me live from london and get in the choreography of this in a moment but first how should we be folding into our thinking the events in syrian or turkish air space we have been learning about over the last couple of hours? >> well, i think you know this
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changes a lot of things for you know the fact that the turks downed a russian fighter jet i think turkey is trying to set the tone because of the increased involvement of different parties and different coalition and the syrian conflict and i think it's important that in the view of turkey it's a kind of setting the record straight for now. >> setting the tone and if it sets the tone with this kind of thing what does it get from doing it? >> well, turkey wants to kind of talk about those increasingly getting involved in the syrian conflict that turkey is an important player in this conflict, that nothing could be achieved without turkish consent. now turkey has leverage over the americans for example because of the use of the air base in
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southern turkey for russia also because of you know its borders key areas that the syrian rebels control and the russians have been trying since they intervened more than a month ago to say to the turks we could ignore you and we could actually violate the air space of turkey and strike turkish allies in the region and syria and we have to emphasize that the sort of groups that the russians have benatar getting are turkish-backed groups more than any other group. >> okay let's talk about i.s.i.l. for a second and the conflict that's going to come their way in francois hollande has his way, he is in washington and he asks barack obama for more, barack obama says, no, we have given you as much as we can because we are offering more than anyone else, that is the line out of the state department
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this time yesterday. he then goes to moscow, talks to vladimir putin, try angulate for us what he wants with what he is going to get with what that can achieve. >> there are practical issues that complicate this situation for france and for the americans as well. i think i sympathize with president obama's position that the right way is the current campaign. but the current campaign is not enough as in it's the right way in comparison to what the french are asking which is basically just increase the rate and scope of the air strikes and that is the wrong thing to do at this moment because you are affecting civilian areas, i.s.i.s. cannot be defeated by dropping more bombs in these areas and also you know working or getting the american or the american led coalition to work with the russians is also very misguided approach because you know people
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on the ground will pursue this whole coalition as committed to the survival of the assad regime so there is that risk and also from an american perspective the you know russia's idea of collateral damage is different from the american that or that of the american led coalition because you know russians have already been striking areas that are heavy with civilians and they have been killing civilians more than i.s.i.s. members. >> does i.s.i.l. get quid proquo benefit because of how well organized their are arguably what can someone like francois hollande do because if he has to tell his people you are safer because we are bombing i.s.i.s. less because we think there is another strategy, that is not what the people of france want to hear. >> yeah, i mean there is a
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problem today which these calls of doing something against i.s.i.s. and i think i understand the french position for example because they need to do something against i.s.i.s. especially at this moment and they want to strike against i.s.i.s. so that for the french is a good thing but i.s.i.s. like exactly you are exactly right, i.s.i.s. benefits from this from dropping more bombs in these areas because that will come at the expense of political approach that is needed to resolve the conflict in both iraq and syria and pave the way for removing i.s.i.s. because that is the only way to get rebel forces for example to shift focus towards i.s.i.s. and as long as the russians are involved and as long as you are working with the russians that delaying the resolution. >> okay, many thanks. two men have been shot with
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murder in thailand after a bomb explosion at a british shrine and the weger men were arrested and here is wane. >> reporter: months after the bombing they arrived at a military court to hear charges against them and adam and riley have been charged with ten offenses including premeditated murder. >> translator: to efficiently manage this case the judges have scheduled february the 16th next year to be the day the defendants will enter their pleas. >> reporter: 20 people were killed in the attack when the erdogan shrine in the heart of bangkok was busy at 7:00 in the evening and video camera emerged of a foreign looking man leaving a backpack at the shrine and it was adam who police say confessed to the attack. two weeks after the blast he was arrested at an apartment where more bomb-making equipment and fa

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