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tv   The Stream 2017 Ep 148  Al Jazeera  September 15, 2017 7:32am-8:00am AST

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to be out of sight out i miss all thought before a missile is launched and that's partly what that test was all about here on friday that's number one number two is they want the capacity to take out the missile in flight is partly what the five anti missile device is all about and third they want north korea to know that they are ready to launch missiles of their own in a punishment capacity in retaliation for any strike a three pronged approach that is the approach they've always said they're going to do the missile launches south koreans carried out early friday as soon as they noticed that the north koreans had launched a missile that taps into if you like points one and three it's both a demonstration that they can preemptively take out of the onslaught but also that they have the capacity to punish off their words but they're also working with the united states about potentially bringing in more fads batteries into this country as i why of intercepting a missile in flight so all of these issues will have been discussed at national security council meeting as well in seoul and of course that we talked about with the americans to. the headlines the news continues here on al-jazeera off
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the street. catalonia independent from spain. separatists say they're going ahead with a referendum on that very question about the spanish government has said it is illegal imo it could be and here in the stream. in the latest twist in a high stakes confrontation between spain central government and its possible catalonia region the government has summoned more than seven hundred cattle on may
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as it says are supporting an attempt to hold an independence referendum catalinas insists they have a right to hold a vote on whether they should break away from spain. if a citizen has a problem with justice and justice pursues if this person has a problem but when more than seven hundred twelve mayors are persecuted by justice that it is not the mayors who have a problem with the spanish justice system itself it is the spanish justice system that has a crummy. authorities are seizing ballot boxes of conducting searches of print shops and individuals across catalonia thought to be producing political material the spanish government has journey with lee objected to the vote. this referendum which is intended to be imposed in a hasty shoddy and illegal way will not be held there will not be an auto determination referendum because that involves depriving citizens in the whole
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country from their right to decide their future as you might understand neither the government nor the courts can tolerate that under any circumstances but. today we're joined by a panel of catalogs to discuss the independence movement in barcelona alfred is a city councilor with the republican left party and a former member of parliament a middle cut and weak martinez is an anti independence at to face and sonia thoughts is a lecturer in international politics and security at the university of boston and us good to have a guest spoke out fred i want to start with you because we're getting pictures from members of our community of an event happening right now or thursday evening this is from a.n.c. international full house for the start of the yes campaign at tara goanna that's a city in the region of catalonia it's a kick off event to launch this referendum campaign you see another picture here
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really excited people and it comes just a few days after september eleventh the day that the region marks its national day and where an estimated hundreds of thousands of people filled the streets of barcelona this is what mark says about that day when you can get one plus million people he says in the street your voice at least deserves to be heard what are those voices calling for. well there's also. you see we're calling for a democracy. one of one of the most outstanding aspects of this is a process in catalonia is that the drive for independence has now become a drive for a democracy because when you have a spanish government which is not allowing does whence it wants to ban the vote which is banning websites the spanish government which is banning rallies
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and political information and which tries to prosecute seven hundred twelve mayors which is seventy five percent of the mayors in our country that government seems to have turned crazy and there's a moral question behind that the moral question is do we have the right to vote about our future yes or not we think we do and that's the main issue right now it's no longer whether you're in favor of in the bend or not obviously the referendum is for those who are for and those who are against for those one of yes and those who want to vote no so the issue now is how has the government of spain turn so crazy and weak. well democracy what is the most of all this is a community of people living to have walked into their operating. looking for you in your own for celebrity or peace or friendship that's the loss of the social
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aspect and the rules the rules of engagement those of us patient. that's the opposite and that's a lot of the what is happening all citizens believe it was the first last in a sense a second class citizen has. been with for years not best of office. is therefore rules rules of equality. so that the union doesn't want an able level i like that i'm here in my letter is that all of us are rector of the us as a sort of but wait and hear. us ability on with that of guards lol and say me. i've got imus has already said so let me show our audience sonny i hate you let me just show our audience what i mean does it pretty much every wednesday which is have
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a look here on my laptop here that data says spanish government employment and reinforce the constitution article one inside five now say basically emirate is protesting and rallying for spain to stay unified so there what did you want to say i had to speak reinforce i think that sunny go ahead i wanted to say that i'm guessing that every fan a colleague of university is aware that democracy is not just what he mentioned democracy it's also a way of ruling ourselves as societies and therefore it's not something you just it's not movable and any social construction. the dot to new times to new scientist things a long time and therefore even lower and legislation or legal framework and is not here and we are particular society it should be moved and it should be
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able to be this cast and i am. changed so as i get what has not happened so it's sunny give us an example of that in because i don't want this become a general conversation about democracy so you are making very pointed remarks give us the what i'm trying to say this the worst about ending for this come obviously. should i continue on friday as twenty second he's taken to the west will be with me in a moment there was a beginning for this conflict where the conflict was clearly political and the spanish government right then they had a momentum where they could had sought it by political means not by standing in a movable and just saying no to everything the other side kept moving along and moving forward and kept developing new strategies new mechanisms now it all keeps being various magic because one side is state and the other one is non-state actor
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but it has reached a point right now where both sides have no other solution one side which is the point of bandits movement is to keep going until it's possible because there's no more solution from the other side and from the spanish point of side we have a legislation and we're just going to stick to the heart and therefore we keep being in that position where the bait we move into where we wanted to be which is about legacy and about will of low and the state of lowered his weapon rate is calling right and that's why it's like speaking on different levels and no one is being able to communicate. we want well. i'm sorry but yes this is. issue related to the chrissy obviously because i'm very much with thomas jefferson when. the world belongs to the living and it
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belongs to the living citizens and they have their rights so they have to the right citizens have the right to decide about their own environment political environment obviously and when he talks about the law let me remind first the one thing that we're struggling also for him for his right to vote no to independence we're also fighting for that for the u.s. and for the know so he's free to choose any of the two options and that's what we have to. it is it really is about freedom and it really is about democracy there's so much of the modesty in the air too much of them obviously in this country thanks to the people too much democracy to be stopped guest let me say this to you yes how tyson might just take a pause for a moment i wanted you to pass in court granted joe and he's from the european free alliance so after the regional elections in catalonia back in twenty fifteen this is what he say it quite provocative or is it have
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a listen to flemish like catalan fly past like from nevada. where else scotland. and we want to be free it's up to the catalans to decide that but we think at least have the right to do so in spain so far has only said no no no. sonja there are some practical practicalities about catalonia breaking away from the west to say let me just show you on my laptop here here respect in right here this is the catalonia region i'm sure all of you will know amazing citicorp barcelona sonia in a nutshell very briefly how did this conversation about catalonia breaking away from spain how did it get started. well in
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a nutshell i would say there are many historical reasons cultural reasons beyond the current conflict started mainly because of an economic discussion about how central spain distributes the taxes that was the very very beginning that has widened a long piece ten years i would say it has now become a much more and lose if discourse and it's it's about a form of state it's a discussion about political organization and so it has been breached and although not as much as many would like and i understand what in britain saying the pity is because the debate about the cross and calm has never taken place because one side kept saying it will never happen it will never be able to decide and therefore the arguments that require just saying which are very legitimate and not being listened in the same courtroom the on the pendants ones because from the non in the pendants
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sector. the messages they sent their potential election electors or voters are just saying no and we're not giving the reasons why he should stay so the whole debate has never actually happened and people who might be in favor of the no don't really have full information and people who are in favor of it yes i have in my opinion there's still a lot more information that they would need to half before voting and this has just not been able to happen so as they go and rick i hear you trying to get in there i want to play a video comment from someone who is talking about the fact that yes october first is coming up but what we're seeing now is something we haven't seen before from the government and how the government is reacting to this potential referendum this is a video comment from albert out of catalonia have a listen. the spanish government. is trying to do. two
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different services the first one time to blog to impute that offer and by using the strength so they can use the referendum they pander for and. changing even the ballot boxes the first politicians and companies that are necessary to hold the referendum but if they enough to suit on. stopping it then they have taken the fathers we would use by using all the strategies of about taking about. things of the strength of prosecuting people. then they will they did they could call the participation. rates fifty percent of the population so and recalls that strategy of potentially criminalizing mayors telling people
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that they cannot hold this vote as a policy of fear have a look here at my laptop this is a tweet from a.n.c. ireland someone who is supporting this call for independence spanish police and the catalan people and they show a cartoon their political cartoon and these are all of the people presumably who want independence and they're all being rounded up into this police car and then what do you make of these tactics and do you think that they represent fear on the part of the government the spanish government. that's. very very look i want to go study about freedom of speech it must be this is basic it's a basis for democracy the thing must be it's the possibility that everyone has the same borders that is all the models because the law we have for the last forty years i'm a sucker for the lack of speech or how little
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a sham it is than the hood we already saw and so therefore. i'm here see there was a lot of those threats we have this part of the border somebody has been silent for so long because they don't get any space at the bottom of the spear so that's out of the seed of you know us the civility. and the leaders and with its own self how we feel and it's our i'm different i've been playing it blaming a science please let me go back so i guess so please let me know let me go back to the truth and let me go back to reality to leave because i'm out of this this isn't acceptable this is not so i don't know what we have to say you know you know barcelona probably many of you it's an open city it's a pretty the it's a calendar city and mother like somebody just a hostile environment so we're really out of that are really response are analogous it's you of any of us every look we have that we have
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a good name without thinking it's all a tire very much in country so lemme see a lot of the buses of members that are out there this is our and i just want to say now sonia how tight out yet how to try and i guess i can recreate tension after just give me a moment i mean i need your attention for america and we have a gap between and it did lay between you and alfred can you just give me a moment i want to hear what he has to say and by all means come back to him africa . yes but let's let's go back also to truth let's go back to reality who's menacing smoking mayor seven hundred twelve so only five percent of the mayors in this country who's actually closing down web sites chasing the press it's the spanish government and let's be let's be very realistic about this and you can hear the news all the time from al jazeera other global networks explaining what's been happening right now so that's what's
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happening and let me say something else because i'm biggest talking about the law now of course we are people of law we are orderly people if you visited barcelona or catalonia you will know that we are hard working prosperous people and we are free and democratic and all in all regards and we respect the laws populous that lot have to change the rules and the laws of segregation and the last about discrimination of women they all changed so we also have to change the last year because because we think they're not fair and look when the spanish police go to close down a website the people gather around the spanish police and you know what they do they don't get something else they don't shout they don't enter into any kind of hostile be behavior they just give them flowers they chant songs and they've given flowers that's the kind of people we have i mean it's so funny because that maccracken every any such
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a happy people that it's unclear it's unfair to paint it in any other way to alfred and i'm weak and something i want to play a little clip of the spanish gentleman rafael nadal everybody knows he's a tennis player here oh my thing is no introduction this is him on september thirteenth talking about the catalonia situation have been to his tech. i feel like all spaniards should feel worried because there is a conflict that needs to be a result and at the moment there's allusions seems complicated or at least not friendly but things can be fixed like i have said many times i feel very close to catalonia i obviously feel spanish and as i understand that the loneliness part of spain i don't see spain without got alone or at least i wouldn't like to see one without it we are better and stronger together than separate and i hope we can
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remain like that forever. so now outside of catalonia if you could take the temperature of what spanish people thinking about this dissipate to get a referendum what would you say. hi my best not to comment on things that have gone by like a few minutes ago yes good i'll try try going forward my back i lived in madrid as you know because last time we had here at the stream i was in madrid i lived in madrid for almost four years i think. there is no. there's no hard oh. sorry my relating the freedom of speech and sign i've been. able to speak i've been and always in barcelona able to speak no sides are silent it's different media different and. portion of.
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being live on t.v. . my question outside of cats no no no i'm not i think in spain there's a pure run t. of. i think there's more people than we think that are in favor of self-determination because they say that's legit tonight but the way it's now being handled by catalonia and political and the parliament hans really really worried many people in spain and it's now being taken as a huge offense to the rule of law ok let's get some more of our community in there we just got this tweet just a couple minutes ago from walid and i'll give it to you alfred well he says what does catalan independence have in common with bracks it eddie so let's fast forward let's say the referendum happens it passes so there is independence on the table alfred the european union has already said that catalonia would have to reapply for each new membership is that something that you're keeping in mind for the future.
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worse yet today president yorker from the european union said that they would consider any result and they were obviously in respect of the result of the referendum now that's great news because we actually want to do exactly the opposite to what it meant for the united kingdom we want to remain in the european union in fact we are european we're not just going to drift away from the european continent we will stay there and we think it's in the interest of everybody especially in a common market not to lose seven point five million producers consumers and net contributors through the european market so we're positive that whatever happens and if there is an independent catalan republic this will be settled and this will be solved in a satisfactory way for everybody even for spanish people like spanish companies who want to keep trading with catalonia obviously we're in the twenty first century
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we're an open democratic society it's a free market whenever we want to wait and we are very positive about the i guess i have something for you let me just show you something that the guardian newspaper reported on a little while ago catalan ex-president are to mass spot from holding public office not just him but the vice president the education minister for catalonia that barred from holding public office they so much pressure on cash lines not even being able to have a referendum what about the debate about referendum issues is that debate even able to happen and week. once you see what's going on in all of europe you see them but it's it. also the same it's it. there's a post we can see that all the way says i'm discrimination is also not we are just example of that was just the other way around the world view not the
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ball of peace or rather that's what we want we want one button for we don't want our fate anymore us up and get along with what everybody hears with no heart with want nothing just one more in the nation more people there and and little when i care what i keep hearing from you and i read wonderful arguments in favor of no i'm in favor of staying which are absolutely the key to making this particular not reasons against why liberal capitalist should not get high and started making up something is there anything ups step in the rules of the game play the game. with with with a clean heart that's the other way this sort of modesty or this or the see if this be making some i mean i need to add something about the rules of the game let me
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add something there but if you have it too you will let us to lose you can see if the algorithm and we can tell you i think you're almost like i'm going to put in one part of the point yes this is via video comment this is rafael have a listen to what he told the thing. being as being half our very good political community we are our modern country our immigrant the country i can't you know he's a part of the european union a country that they are being international relations spain our own history that in some ways it was not cool but now we are we really wanted a more european country in a very important passenger opt out of the european union all these things will be held in greece where this is in its moment sonia of course he is a secession opponent but again it's wonderful but i think many of us would agree that we wish we could happen listen to these angry voice alfredo it's been
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a pleasure having you on the shelf as all this debate will go on and on hash tag out a string to be continued to capital. let's talk about. now. right now. right now it's happening so fast. you can barely keep up with it. right now we've got clouds protecting rhino. and mobile technology finding clean water not tomorrow not five years in the future. now. in a disaster the internet can be restored by a truck. you know mind this truck can drive itself and right now this child is
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