tv The Full Circle Al Jazeera October 1, 2017 1:32am-2:01am AST
of communication with north korea secretary of state rex tillerson is in beijing meeting his counterpart wangi on a second trip to the chinese capital this year yes wants china to increase the economic pressure on north korea over its nuclear weapons program thousands of people have been gathering in washington d.c. to protest against racism and police brutality in the u.s. two rallies were held the march for racial justice and the march for black women organizers are calling for an end to what they say is systemic racism. at least fifty people have been arrested in the swedish city of gold then but ensuring a demonstration of my a far right and to semitic group members of the nordic resistance movement four of counter demonstrators on police officer and several other people were injured. after twenty eight people have been killed in airstrikes in the rebel held the province of syria u.k. based group the syrian observatory for human rights said the four children were among the dead but they've not been able to verify whether the strikes were carried
out by the syrian government or its main ally. that's all for now next up talked to al jazeera speaks to the capital and leader ahead of tomorrow's secession referendum thanks very much for your company deceiving ceases. with documentaries that open your eyes at this time on al-jazeera. you're. looking. at catalonia prepares to hold a historic referendum on whether to split from spain we have come to catalonia to speak to the man behind that independence movement catalonia as president carlos puts them on talks to al-jazeera. the new president thank you for joining us there
welcome how can people vote technically how was this going to happen last time you had two point four million people voting this time the spanish government wants to dramatically minimize that they want to deal idjit i'm eyes this whole process and they want the number of voters to be small so let me ask you first technically how can you carry this out. just us spain never authorized any referendum or any consultation even open on binding nature it refused we made a proposal for not a binding referendum it rejected that in fact it does not accept this current referendum but one important think has happened in the last few days there's a new majority in it along at a wide ranging majority amongst the catalan people which is growth and that is that people who want to devote be
a yes or no but they want to vote and this is unstoppable referenda or not carried out by the courts or the police it's voters who make up a referendum. my question is will there be voters on the first of october there'll be many many million people who want to vote my question is how can that be stopped you don't stop the police force the wish to vote is unstoppable we're going to put a brake on it today the debate is not between independents yes or no it's above all between those who wish to create a new state right from the grassroots a modern state or to continue with authoritarian state which can cut back on freedom liberties to compel us to continue forming part of this state this means there's been a massive movement of people in favor of voting there will be difficulties of
course. but on sunday night we should be able to count the voters and see how many people have gone to the boot to the polling booths yes many positive surprises i can tell you that and based on the results we'll have to . take political decisions one decision which will not take is to withdraw or to renounce. we want to move forward whether or not the spanish state likes it but i. solemnly make a commitment to dialogue to discuss to negotiate we do not wish to. have an abrupt break we want to construct reconstruct we want to do it from mutual respect that tomorrow whatever happens spain will catalonia will have earned
the right to be listened to and to be a participant this has not happened till now but last time two point four million people voted in the spanish government wants to ensure that that does not happen this time isn't there a threshold doesn't there need to be one million two million people some number of people to vote. to comments that i think many many people will go and vote tomorrow i trust. and i just hope that a clear. indication that they there is a ground current and impressive ground currently within cattlemen society and mobilizing then the referendum and all does not fix a minimum participation minimum turnout but he neither does the spanish electoral legislation has never thinks at minimum turnout a minimum participation i can give you an example of how low participation did not legitimize a result. when you had you know spain referendum to approve
the european constitution which didn't come into force but that's by the way but spanish member states had to approve it and referendum would happen like everyone celebrated that the european constitution vote was approved it would turn out a forty nine percent what does that mean that the rules of the game which are good for one instance on not going to be valid for the referendum we have the same rules of the game that applies in spanish legislation and the spanish legislation does not fix minimum turnout and i think that very few legislations or jurisdictions which a impose a minimum turnout we wanted to reach an agreement with the spanish state to fix turns and conditions of the referendum where we could contemplate fixing
a minimum turnout and minimum. level of support for the winning option to consider the referendum but it is what is not consistent is that those who have refused to sit down and talk of the practical. aspects of random knowledge they are. here the rules of the game one sided impose i'm going to negotiate so there is no minimum off and on the right when it comes to the people at the polling booth when one side chooses not to participate there's really no no campaign how do you ensure that there are objective people at the polls and since you had to reprint these many times since the spanish government has confiscated over ten million of them. how do you ensure that these ballots are legitimate that they are. they have no registration on them there are no officials there writing numbers on them. yes you have the electoral census people
who are registered in the census will be able to vote people are not in the census will not be able to vote people will not be able to vote twice over. there will be a electoral panel which will be. checking each voter individually but. they'll be lots left over because there are many who have printed and reprinted because we hadn't visited the possibility that. the powers that be may discover or ballot papers and we have ballot papers we have. if you like. the ballot boxes available we want to know what the population of we're going thinks you know at the end of the day what if that ballot box is. translucent plastic with a made of cardboard is irrelevant what is important that there should be. ballot
boxes and ballot papers deposited within about a book says yeah this money state has attempted to send to people's attention on logistics and while they were talking of that we were not talking. of why yes why vote no the reasons the other calls the pros and cons why is an important part of clinton who wishes to be independent why have we reached this state which what can be done to convince all the catalan people that we want to have an independent state. in this is not a good idea and one of the been talking about. ballot boxes ballot papers census. ups sending police in cruise ships to the port of us alone or they have stopped on the key question is not what the ballot box is going to look i know is what do
people want what are the pros and cons of voting yes or no. we should do things democratically by a politics not using the police or the courts i want to move on to the substance of this referendum but just one more question because this is such an unprecedented time with this cat and mouse game in which police are shutting down polling places and citizens are occupying them and setting them up elsewhere is there a secret plan for how to carry this out is if you think it is obvious that as we knew that in front of us we had a very powerful state which has all the tools and resources of the state many of our plans could not be made public. obviously we don't know what the plans of the state are to block that or a friend and they haven't told us why they've got them under wraps so we have no obligation to publicize to make public how we're going to organize the referendum
logistics and there has been as you rightly said cat and mouse game which almost reminds one of our cartoons of our childhood and it homage to that idea one of the crews vessels which is what police took at the lonia is decorated with warner brother. and you know characters which everyone is able to see. a yes as i said is powerful. and can one man tame. really low pensions very low pensions shamefully low patients but they can spend three thousand euros a day on three hundred thousand euros a day to hire ships. and with police who are not going to chase crooks who are not going to. deal with terrorist organizations or
wife battering. right but they're going to. sort of run off the ballot boxes and ballot paper us that sounds daft and as we have in front of us a state which is capable of this we had to make plans and today we have reached so far because of the pressure of the state who want to stop us even beginning and electoral count pain you're quite right it is a cat and mouse game to a certain extent i will take that to mean yes there is a secret plan and no you can't tell me about it. describe for me what independent catalonia would look like i realize the voters play a role here but you're their leader how do you see it will there be an army will be part of the e.u. will it be capitalist socialist will they be free healthcare and. we like to think of them could. it be the catalans who decide whatever is going to look like.
constitutional process of this new state should be the result of. wide ranging debate and participation and where the people are in a pilot it should not be some elites military economic or political who lay down what is going to be no there should be a debate a process between the people between the stakeholders including a dimia. and there is a consensus in that or in a place of consensus that we need a democratic state national committee to do the values of peace and international cooperation. combating climate change progress and welfare of. the public there is one point second point would be to do this within the european union members and we are active part of europe we feel that and
that alone is a net contributor to the european budget we make a greater. contribution than what we receive so we are committing out. to the great challenges of humanity fighting terrorism fighting climate change fighting fighting cyber attacks and cyber war so we will have to have a defense policy but will have to be coordinated with our eyes on natural allies it could not be otherwise on the front lines of this quiet revolution our children young people out in the streets people who have gone to catalan school. and who are now occupying schools to keep them open as voting places. and there are thousands of police in the street there is the potential for violence if it gets
ugly. what we tell them what we tell their parents. well firstly it is inconceivable that a peaceful people research questions of peacefully could be repressed with violence i mean it was when a paradox for the last six years we have organized demonstrations which. brought together millions of people with zero. incidence of violence we can organize big pacific demonstrations we can i move allies large masses. now we have ten times more police. should we be scared of violence. is rather suspicious but the question should be is anyone interested in generating a climate of violence in catalonia to attack the reputation of
a movement which has earned its credibility the hard way by the way it expresses its opinion peacefully there's been no violence there is no violence to get them so if someone does have this temptation. they will. be doing themselves no favor of doing european democracy. no one will accept countenance violence it's a peaceful civic cross-cutting movement with young people old people people from rural backgrounds people from metropolitan backgrounds people of different levels of education people who are wealthy people who are not as wealthy we don't have to show anyone that we are peaceful people who know how to think properly we have proved that let's move on if you succeed. you'll have to decide whether what relationships the nation of catalonia has in the
european union any country can withhold its support for a new country entering spain would almost certainly do that so don't you run the risk of doing a catalonian breck's it in putting more borders between you and europe rather than fewer know is impossible that's impossible firstly. we are already european citizens seven point five million cats of us who have european citizenship and we shall not lose it. to date i've never requested recognition from any european state because we don't know the result of the referendum after the referendum we should move forward on that i just know that the european union and member states should side with spain that's i mean no one said. but. for something. like we describe to happen like
a couple of bricks of the country which would remain outside your opinion if there is a. look at the loan it would have to be recognized as such and it ended state by the spanish state and the spanish that could veto the entrance of a custom of state to be in a union if it has been recognized by the spanish as an independent nation because if it is not recognized that problem what arise what happens if a spanish state or french state or german state. recognizes that only as an independent state and says ok you go back into the queue to apply would be a contradiction in terms because it's a spice it recognizes that there is it and state it is because we have achieved an agreement on borders on nationality questions on debt on the share out of assets. and all debt. are geopolitics
and the first element of an agreement is europe because that will be a win win situation for both parties just crazy to think that spain would recognize catalonia as an independent state and then say no but you guys are not going to join europe. that just what would be crazy would be a country so we are pretty confident about the future of you catalonia within the european union it's a yes yes situation how do you evaluate the response of spain prime minister and the government has reacted dramatically this time to the effort to hold a referendum here how do you evaluate their reaction and what do you think about. no. it's no surprise but we are very disappointed. for many many years that the spanish government. has done everything in its fight except one thing the one thing it has to do which is to act politically is
orchestrated scurrilous and libelous campaigns it is used police it is using public funds to attack. pro independence politicians it has used the martial all its media it has used. police the courts public prosecutors but it has not acted politically it is not capable of making a spanish proposal for i don't yet have a single argument you're saying no you must fulfill the law or nothing else proposal no. nothing. nothing to make us think hey wait a minute maybe it's better for us to remain in spain nothing proposed. maybe. you have seen images of. spanish. people.
in various points of spain where police convoys leave for going saying go on get. those images what you define will reflect the policy of the government. they have no interest in making us feel comfortable within spain how people in spain know because they're here for them it's almost like a private piece of property. and we're going to go go against you because when you don't have. to come to bed you want to leave. history will judge this almost scandalous absence of political negotiation this is. irresponsible the spanish government has almost acted like. an arsonist has been putting. putting of. wood on the fire
it's been acting as. totally responsibly you must also believe that me and it is a lack of spanish and a genuine spanish patriot would want everything in its country to go smoothly and everyone to feel happy within the state they have not acted with any genuine spanish patrick jephson but they have only acted based on short term political and electoral calculations i would have loved to be sitting down at the negotiating table. to seek a solution but whenever i have sent prime minister on a proposal either the answer has been no. all fifteen days ago i said i letter jointly signed by the president of the government parliament with the signature of the mayor of barcelona with
a copy to the king. and. asking for it is only question but no answer except what we see now. the response faced with a referendum. how far does this self-determination go how to what extent are you willing to see people decide their own fate for instance if you would even dependence in years from now barcelona says we want to be independent of catalonia would you say that. let me be clear the right of self-determination is recognized to peoples and nations in fact we can get that oh yeah i recognise that there is one part of catalonia. which is a tariff through specific features that the vote on and we approved a low cut in parliament which is approved unanimously which recognizes the right that it the right of the ironies people to have the knowledge of this if it features we do recognize that if one day one part of catalonia feels that it is
a nation and has that will. they will be. they could read about the last consequences unity is not something. if a few days and you know after katrina becomes independent and. a majority of the population wishes to rejoin spain well so be it but. if you look at the changes taking place in the world i think that at breakneck speed to moving fast forward. everything has been a tough everything has changed companies families culture. but everything is changed except states exactly as they were in the nineteenth century think they are unchangeable eternal permanent it's rather pretentious surely to believe that the only thing which will not be affected by this in many. change our nation states that they must remain set in stone as the nineteenth
century so we should be we should be able to do dramatize we are live in a global world which is interconnected and we do need the tools to express ourselves that's what we are finally i'd like to ask you two questions one is why shouldn't the rest of spain get to vote on this this changes their country as well and if you don't succeed you face some pretty serious consequences with the spanish government they have accused the organizers of this referendum of crimes including sedition which comes with a penalty of up to fifteen years in prison. are you willing to face that. we accept full responsibility. but it be very very irresponsible. for the response to political aspirations. to be
a prison sentence i'm no delinquent i'm no criminal i was not. responsible for sedition but normally when there's a. tent against against democratic regimes you don't normally get. with the ballot papers or the governments and it would be very very responsible. and immense mistake i accept my responsibilities but let me tell you that it would be a very severe mistake and they would have to live with the consequences. would be a definite definite blow. there is the response to dialogue and to offer to negotiate with repression then we don't want to be talking of a democratic state i hope that when that moment has reached the european union which is always handing out lesson to third countries. saying that they should
respect rights and freedoms now that. the charter or the european fundamental rights european citizens is saying i think it's all very well to talk of the rights i'm going to introduce but with which moral authority could the european union keep quiet about what might happen how could it start sort of. giving lessons or rights to other countries if the person of autonomous region is imprisoned for wishing to allow people to express themselves democratically. carlos pushed him on president of catalonia thank you for talking to elders here you're welcome we have repeatedly reached out to spanish prime minister mariano rajoy to talk to al-jazeera his office has not responded to our request but that invitation remains open.
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