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tv   Inside Story 2017 Ep 275  Al Jazeera  October 3, 2017 8:32pm-9:00pm AST

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in maria some officials in puerto rico including the mayor of the capital some one have criticized the federal relief efforts but trump insists his government did a good job hundreds of thousands of people have taken to the streets across catalonia to demonstrate against police violence during sunday's referendum protestors are surrounded a hotel which is housing some of the national police officers around one hundred people were injured on sunday after spanish police tried to prevent voting results show that voters overwhelmingly bath secession from spain. turkey says it will impose a further sanctions on iraq so thomas kurdish region after it overwhelmingly voted for independence from baghdad last month the iraqi kurdish government says it now plans to hold presidential and parliamentary elections in november since the referendum baghdad has banned the international flights to kurdish airports. and iraq's former kurdish president jalal talabani has died at the age of eighty four the veteran leader of the kurdish struggle for self-determination stepped down as
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president two thousand and fourteen after suffering a stroke two years earlier and those are the headlines remember you can get more on all those stories on our web site the address al-jazeera dot com will stay with us inside stories next i'm going to have the news hour for you in less than half an hour but i. it's a real reconciliation. and
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welcome to the program i'm elizabeth piron i'm the palestinian government has made its first trip back to dolls after a decade in exile the fattah movement which leads the government was driven out of the strip in two thousand and seven after a last election and civil war with rival hamas palestinian prime minister around the house was welcomed by large crowds and celebrations in gaza city on monday shut down that soft government in gaza last month to pave the way for the reconciliation both groups are trying to reactivate a unity government both gaza and the west bank says it's crucial for the middle east peace process.
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the heart of the palestinian state exist. between the west bank and the gaza strip. the vision. well hamas and fatah have tried and failed to reconcile frequently over the past ten years peacemaking efforts have never made it this far saudi arabia was the first to try and broker peace between hamas and fatah but the mecca deal signed in two thousand and seven fell apart almost immediately here later yemen gave it a go and two sides signed a deal to revive direct talks but they never followed through the cairo deal signed in two thousand and eleven was hailed as a landmark agreement but it didn't last very long either and the the one deal signed in two thousand and twelve five years after the conflict started also failed
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to stick many failed because of alleged pressure from the u.s. israel and other regional governments the most recent deal was signed at beach refugee camp in gaza three years ago without any arab mediation it also fell apart after two years of trying to implement it well let's bring in our panel now from ramallah most of about a goofy who is secretary general of the palestinian national initiative and from london in black was a visiting senior fellow at the middle east center at the london school of economics welcome to you both mr barghouti what's different about this reconciliation attempt to the many that have come before that before it. made difference is that egypt is clearly throwing all its weight behind this process over the consolation providing the venue providing the political support the diplomatic support. other differences that we have seen
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actually things taking place. like dissolution of the administrative committee and the return of the palestinian. consensus government to taking its responsibilities and there is a clear plan which will start with meetings between fatah and hamas and then with all palestinian political groups to proceed with the implementation of the event it seems that. from one side there is an external role that is helping but on the other side i think the whole world is worried that gaza is about to explode and the conditions there are completely intolerable from human perspective from political perspective from economy perspective and there is a third factor which is very important i think both the leaderships of the time and hamas. do realize today that they are losing their popularity with the palestinian
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people who because of this continuous internal division which makes no sense and where this division has become mostly a fight over thirty that is totally under occupation with a complete and total block of any possibility of fruitful peacekeepers mr blackwell they have of course been two main factors to disunity the internal divisions and a lack of will to share power the external influences like that of israel will get to israel maisha but do you think that there is as mr barghouti is saying more political will now for unity. well i think that there is quite a lot of political will for unity i think it perhaps differs between the two parties but i also think that the obstacles to an agreement which actually works and therefore brings the approval engagement of others is quite problematic you
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know this isn't the first time that there's been an attempt over the last decade two to forge palestinian unity i agree with most of our group here about the pressure i think from ordinary people the situation in gaza two million people living in isolation extremely difficult circumstances is intolerable nevertheless the the constraints on the parties what they can agree to whether others will accepted remains very powerful on the palestinian side yes a will to make change but very serious obstacles still to overcome before a unity agreement can actually hold to a very difficult reality what are the greatest obstacles now mr black. well i think you i think it's been made clear already on what's happening because there is extremely important today and yesterday. the convening of this meeting
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really is is a significant step but it's also true president made clear yesterday and this is in signal before that on one very central issue he doesn't see any room for. full flexibility or compromise and that's the question of weapons hamas is the islamic resistance movement resistance is its raison d'ĂȘtre its identity its commitment to struggle remains absolutely central bassa said very explicitly that reconciliation and unity requires one law one government and one gun and the one gun element of it is extremely significant even mentioned example of hezbollah and lebanon the implication being quite clear to his body operates within within the lebanese state but it operates independently but
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the past is clearly not prepared to do this to go ahead with unification with hamas for all sorts of good reasons but to have hamas remain an independent military actor and i think is almost certainly the single most significant factor preventing successful implementation of mrs gosnold the interests of of hamas as a resistance movement mr barghouti let me bring you in here there is a new hamas charter hasn't isn't in line with the goals of fattah and less whether it's past all military resistance. before these reconciliation started to take. the steps actually since more than two years or do it in the last two years first of all there. is not to establish an alternative to the p.l.o. but they want to join the p.l.o. . and second support popular nonviolent resistance as long as they are not attacked
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. in which case they have to i defend themselves even militarily. there. accepting the two state solution basically by accepting a state in the sixty seven borders with jerusalem as its capital which means that there is no practical difference between the different political problems. their problem. fight over in the city. under occupation so if if all these conditions have been met there is no reason for the continuation of this split but the fight continued about rules governing the people under occupation and today if the goal is to is to establish a unity between palestinians it is available it's possible it's achievable i don't see as major political obstacles and even major obstacles in terms of what kind of
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struggle we have to use because i think there is a consensus about that but if the goal is to domesticate terminus to break the palestinian goal of having an independent palestinian state and in force on palestinians more concessions which israel wants and obviously the american team is supporting that then of course this would not have and will never happen not only from the side of her mouth but from the side of most palestinian political forces who refused to liquidate the palestinian goal and if used to give up the right for self-determination we're going to bring in from gaza guest mr the hamas has a senior hamas official mr hamas has been forced to the table by the crippling measures imposed on gaza by palestinian president mahmoud abbas. we think that we expect that the fairness of fruits of their requests edition and then it is. all majors again is. gaza because we think that you know it's not logical now we have
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a government acting and all people are working including switching to hamas and they facilitate everything for the government and now not only hamas but all policy infections all people now expect from the government now to take actions in order to facilitate their life and to ease the life of people and the beginning is the electricity and opening of the course things and also day to day so there is we think that now it is no golden opportunity for the government to prove now everything is normal it is natural and no one kind of stop day d'errico situation we hope that to the prison and the government also take i said morsi yes to take more serious steps in order to reach in this minds. and to in the lives of the children with gaza well one they repeatedly mentioned with the state as mohammad
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the one he used to be a father leader accused of torturing hamas activists he became an enemy of both hamas and fatah when he was expelled from the movement in two thousand and eleven the han's been living in self-imposed exile in abu dhabi and the united arab emirates ever since he has strong ties to the conference there as well as to egyptian president of the l.c.c. and that relationship to c.c. is said to be said by some to be helping the make his comeback it's room it has been making a deal with hamas to return to gaza to lead the government while hamas won the territories interior ministry mr how does the fact that hamas would say mainly reconcile with who was you know one of the architects of a brutal campaign against against hamas in the line hundred ninety days and the two thousand does it show the severity of the plight of hamas. i think we are interested in bringing all the parts together in the chair was to
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allow for. affection timothy good to get together and to. national unity and to work together i think now is not the time that is not. allowed for the. difference is more disputes because i think this will weaken the position of the policy in the front. i think now that you conciliation between hamas and fatah or between hamas and the i think also. the gates for comprehensive solution i think we are in good relationship with the people here or there with all the countries around us because i think we need to support all palestinians all the countries around. the time saudia all out of the countries in order to support us in front of the capacious it is now it is a i think it is a time because now we have one or thought you have one government we have one
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political system i think we have to clean the table of all disputes. mr black if i can bring you in here of course about palestinian national unity but it is being done with the support of key international players like egypt and the united arab emirates how much of this support do you think is aimed at sidelining which has been very involved with hamas and gaza and reconstruction efforts in gaza in two thousand and fourteen war. egypt of course we know how egypt feels about qatar and the united arab emirates has been giving a lot of money. to funnel and to gaza. we're looking at some very secret that the rivalry between. the saudis v.m. iraqis egypt and cars are is a. big story in the middle east today really. spent the last few months talking about a little i think the wider context of this just to just to pan out
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a little bit is about the acid of of the arab spring of the failure of islamist movements not only in egypt but elsewhere the bloodshed in in syria the retreat of islamist movements and they weakening and what's happened to hamas is is part of that story as well countries are pursuing their own interest self interest for egypt dealing with hamas is also about trying to get control better control of security in the sinai where it's facing a serious attack of the. isis and isis affiliate the and the righties in the character as we know to achieve i teach others throat sort of death and throw in this is is a fascinating symbol of all of that so people are pursuing their own interests the question is whether that actually brings about any improvement or just brings about
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meddling in the short term where people can say well we have achieved our goal at the expense of one particular rival or another if true palestinian unity were to come out of this it would be a significant achievement. the president to us whether some of the conflicting goals that are being pursued here will allow that to happen look i think it's important to reserve for a bass has a relationship with israel which is based on the recognition of israel and security cooperation with israel we mustn't forget that central fact and that has to be borne in mind when you talk about the prospects for true reconciliation with a mass whatever the motives of the other countries that are behind this move now mr bout go see how will israel be looking on at these reconciliation efforts that could result in unity and palestine do you think would it be worried. it's very well read and already started attacking these folks i mean i know that. the prime
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minister and his cabinet to go together but i think what is it i just wanted just some kind of defusing of the very conflict of situation in which is about to explode and that's or now that we can move into the direction of the end unity. and bluntly taking stand by mr netanyahu i understand if totally against this unity and attacking it already and in my opinion this is a very dangerous element. and will continue to try to obstruct this possibility of conciliation that's one point the second point there was a very alarming also a statement by the spokesperson of the white house who suddenly started talking about not allowing to have to be in the palestinian government as if it's the united states who should decide who is a government or not and then bringing back the whole body conditions that the court was put in good place but let me say just one very important point here that.
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conciliation has two possibilities one possibility is to transform the fight over. into some kind of. partition of authority between hamas and fatah and that would not fulfill the palestinian. democracy to the palestinian people who have been absent from decision making process all these years and this about one of the one of the biggest stumbling blocks in the reconciliation as liking to be over the long promised elections they happen. and that's why i'm saying the elections are very important because at the end of the day we do not want or need to sort of the palestinian authority which is under occupation but we want to have a unified palestinian democratic leadership we want to consolidate the system is going to listen and we want to have everybody inside the p.l.o.
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and we want the decisions to be taken collectively and in a shooting incident. then you know when i said decisions i mean decisions must have the falcon bring you in here now in the past when hamas has won elections they have been rejected by israel and the us how do you plan to proceed and in a national possible national unity government with other palestinian factions when israel and its allies still considers hamas a terrorist organization. i think we are interested now to continue the process of their consideration because we think that now it is not the only for the government but i think now we are the biggest challenge is how can we continue continue i think now the big challenge is now how can we impose unity by forming a national unity government and how can we run diligence and how can we also fix
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that which is. i think we have to go. all the. table we know that it's not easy but i think we just put. forth a real you conciliation for the big issues like the elections national unity government and also the. p.l.o. . what is different this time the situation now is more positive there are more. trust confidence between the two parties between hamas and fatah i think the situation is it prepared now for a real. we need because of this we need. another concert to support us and to help us because we don't have a world that is doing caught in order to put it to a poor old of us to achieve the national unity because addition. of israel so i think we have now to work together on all the biggest prize for the
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disunity with the siege upon the mr black if this unity that we've seen last a few weeks now continues while all the arab states in the region will the international community get behind it do you think. yes i think that i think that it would i think we've already seen behind the scenes considerable interest from the from the united nations from the e.u. there are lots of distractions the moment but i think that if palestinian reconciliation looked serious there would be a strong interest in using that to do something that is extremely urgent to improve the conditions of the people living under blockade in gaza and i think things reach a terrible peak of this summer when the electricity supply in gaza was drastically cut because president about us on behalf of the pabst in your authority was
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refusing to pay for it that's pretty pretty much alone in terms of palestinian disunity if services can be improved if access can be improved if humanitarian conditions and employment can be improved although that's a long haul even in the short term i think it would galvanize international action on its behalf but i still think there are very significant obstacles to that working more on the political level i think the views raise i agree with most of about a group of the israelis much prefer a situation of pakistan. disunity but i also think it's possible in the short term that they may be interested in an improvement in the situation on the ground to to relieve some of the dangers that are building up an explosion is probably not in their interest well you've missed about and i think that international mr la pointe will grow if this jury signs of work that's
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a very positive note on just being missed about the for the last line on this what do you think is going to take to make this reconciliation attempt you have lived through many and have been involved and many what will it take to make this one a success. two things first of all they will surround both the top and from us they have to accept the principle of sharing power and the principle of democratic rule is that. they have to give up the idea. really and fully of one party rule one group and realize that we have to collectively our own life and second to bring back the right to the people of the democratic practice about these are two important factors but internationally let me let me just say quickly that internationally many people have been using the intent of the vision as an excuse for not supporting the palestinians to have taken this away from them
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now and i think it is the duty of the international community especially the e.u. to support these the conservation efforts to be a survivor he thank you very much for that and thank you to all our guests ghazi hamad most of out of all things and in black and thank you for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and to further discussion go to our facebook page that facebook dot com forward slash a.j. and side story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a.j. inside story for me and it's a problem and the whole team here by fidel. al
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