tv Inside Story 2017 Ep 284 Al Jazeera October 12, 2017 8:32pm-9:01pm AST
in need of fundamental reform and has continued anti israel bias the pakistani army has rescued a family held captive by the haqqani network an armed organization aligned to the afghan taliban the army says they were saved in a tribal district along the pakistan afghanistan border after a tip off by u.s. intelligence agencies president on trump says the rescue shows pakistan is beginning to respect america again spain has celebrated its national day with a massive military show of duty as pressure builds on the catalan leader catalyst bridge the moment to clarify whether he has the cleared independence military parades flyovers and marches took place in madrid with smaller and the same demonstrations in barcelona. baghdad has the nie that it's planning an imminent attack on the autonomous kurdish region of iraq kurdish authorities say they received a warning from the iraqi military of a planned attack on kurdish controlled areas it follows iraqi kurds overwhelmingly
voting in favor of independence two weeks ago those are the headlines coming up next it's inside story and i'm going to have the news hour for you in less than half an hour see you then. trying to end a longstanding split palestinian rival groups fatah and hamas reach a deal but previous reconciliation attempts between them have failed on this one succeed and what could it mean for the future of the peace talks with israel this is inside story.
hello again i'm james space they've been rivals for a decade but now the palestinian groups fatah and hamas of reached a deal to makeup and work together egypt has been mediating the most recent talks in the relationship between the two factions soured in two thousand and six after hamas won the election and then seize gaza from fatah after a period of there's cautious optimism about this latest agreement because we've been here before will this time be different tare force it has more on the deal for . in the occupied west bank. well in a recorded statement it has been played on egyptian television we've heard from the two delegation heads and what appears to be the case is a disagreement among other things will center on the crossing between egypt and gaza the palestinian authority delegation head saying that the p.a.
would assume full control of that of that of running that by november the first at the latest other things we've been hearing that thousands of hamas officials have been providing government services in the ten years but they or at least some of them will be brought under the p.a. or forty within the next four months and that some three thousand palestinian authority security officers they will be merged with the security that has been provided by hamas in gaza in the last ten years as for people in gaza they're just desperate for this to work. when we used to hear about any reconciliation efforts we would think immediately of the failure of it but we hope this time is different unity could at least solve the power crisis and bring happiness to the gazan people . we've had enough eleven years of suffering without electricity no medicine for people no traveling we want to live like other nations one question that remains open so far is the future of hamas military wing hamas before these talks
said that its fate was entirely off the table in these discussions but the palestinian president mahmoud abbas said that he wouldn't accept any lebanon style situation where there's a hezbollah equivalent providing an alternative center of political and a need military power in gaza or it may be that there is some less formal agreement in the works on that front those are the indications that was sent in the run up to these talks whereby they would remain quiet underground and that if there were to be any use of military force in the future that would have to be the subject of national consensus as far as the egyptians are concerned this is a success and they want the palestinian factions all of them to meet again in cairo on the van the twenty first sorry for that al-jazeera for inside story in ramallah . let's discuss all this now by bringing in our panel of guests in garza we have the senior hamas official arm of the use of joining us from ramallah we have the former
director of the palestinian authority government media center ghassan khatib and from london we have years he'd say year senior associate with the carnegie middle east center welcome to you all let's talk first about what we know about the deal armored use if you represent hamas you know what's in this deal let me ask you possibly the most difficult question under this deal who is in control of your weapons who will be in command of your fighters the rest i'm a to some but something like twenty five thousand fighters and commanders tell me that key question. with the good intentions that we have right now between federal and hemis and this kind of fair indorsement by the president we vote we should be told the palestinian would mean that one who are a part of the government should be under that footage of the palestinian government
and that would be an if you are talking about. resistance we've been this is something is not on that even for discussion right now but if you are talking about that we've been for the people in. the guard the palestinian guard and national palestinian police and something like this it's all their gun and that enough. i thought it team of palestinian government. specifically i'm asking specifically about what you describe as the resistance weapons because the palestinian authority president mahmoud abbas has said in just recent days he wants one state one regime one law one weapon and he said he wouldn't accept the reproduction in gaza of the hizbollah situation in lebanon with regard to your hamas weaponry isn't that what we've got. i think this is there is a contradictory between some of the statement coming is that from president
in the way that the people try to miss and that is stand work that really has been agreed in cairo and two thousand and eleven which mean that that is this tense weapons is nothing on the table for discussion right now and this is what has been all so many many of the people been at this issue and seeing this is not right now for discussion even. delegation and also in all of those of hamas will be talking about this this is not only in the egyptian mediators look at the egyptian to look at also they have said this is up for discussion right now this is what has been talking about that would be this is the weapon that and that is that i thought it you off the ministry of interior ok let's go to some khateeb in ramallah make it clear that you are not a spokesman now for the palestinian authority but you have been in the past and you
know very much the thinking there in ramallah president a bastard and he wanted these weapons and fighters directly under palestinian authority control in principle in general. but i think that this issue is postponed at the moment because apparently in this phase of the internal negotiations the two sides have agreed on the gradual approach so there agreed on one thing as we know so far they agreed on the necessity that the government the the official person in government of mahmoud abbas would extend. its responsibility and the role into gaza so the civilian departments and the government departments would be unified according to what has been agreed on. yet however the rest of the issues on the
table. such as the political agreement or disagreement and unifying the p.l.o. such as the election for a future neurologist of concepts such as the thorny issue that you discussed with your guest from gaza the others dance we pons are to be discussed later and the new thing is that they seem to be trying to start with the easy thing and with the pressing thing from a humanitarian point of view and keep talking about the rest of the issues for the future. this will this is a practical approach that will probably help alleviate some of the suffering in gaza without linking everything together you see you here a very gradual approach they've done deals on the easy stuff but they've left out some of the difficult parts some of the things that israel and the international
community demanded this isn't a complete deal is it. no of course not and that probably is necessary i.e. trying to resolve everything is pretty much impossible it's taken ten years so far and previous deals have sailed over this kind of thing. furthermore a comprehensive deal here might then run into total israeli resistance or us objections and therefore i think the egyptian approach of sponsoring a partial process that will then later ground for the next step and then the third step does make more sense i'm reminded here of what's going on in syria where in a stand russia and turkey have gradually pulled in the syrian armed opposition groups that are backed by the west among others into a process that focuses first on a ceasefire then on deployment of peace observers delivery of humanitarian assistance and that has put off the hardest political and other issues to the next
stage and with every step these groups get pulled in further and further until it becomes harder to reverse course so in gaza too i think. is how massless forward in the on this sort of track it down becomes harder for both. its competitors front and the west bank to pull away the interesting thing here is if this is going to work then it means that egypt is really throwing its political weight behind to deal with israel i.e. telling the israelis we want this to work you've got to stand back and let us make the first step work even if the weapons issue hasn't been resolved and that is going to be the most interesting thing here one of the questions of the day is have we been here before hamas and fattah have tried and failed to reconcile frequently over the past ten years saudi arabia was the first to draw broker peace between the two but a deal signed in mecca in two thousand and seven fell apart almost immediately
a year later with yemen's term amassing fattah draft of the deal to revive direct talks. but never followed through the karo deal of twenty eleven was hailed as a landmark agreement but it didn't last long either and the doha deal signed in two thousand and twelve five years after the conflict started also collapsed many fell because of alleged pressure from the us israel and regional governments the most frequent the most recent was signed at the beach refugee camp in gaza three years ago without any arab mediation but after two years of trying to implementation it felt the way of the others. from. what's different this time this different that ten years of miserable life in conflict one way or another that the palestinian border in fact and how mad they feel lost and they lost that trust of of their people there are. a lot it he had been decreased a lot and also there is now in the egyptian that sound like they are serious about
. solving the problem it's as became a video to mediate or they're trying to build the relation between fatah and hamas as they've been playing a good look at or at all and it sound like that to that been people talking about all the time and the intellectual and the elites saying that there is an american view too is that eight of you do it sound like there is something being done or hope for the future and it sounds like there is something being cooking and it's needs that both palestinian be united and in doing their division and having and that is one president and one and one government that could tell if there is a peaceful settlement to the conflict this is the way they're going to handle it and also because the people the palestinian people they lost especially a graduate student kidding guys are more than hundred thousand they were lost any
glimmer of hope and. about their future and begin fred and also what happened that security threat coming from the salafist you had this which being considered if it toward the national palestinian hearing guards and also to the egyptian national it's considered a nationalist threat to the egyptian it's became. if it we both egypt and gaza be in became yanni feel that this is syria serious a threat and having a disc on both of us and let me just pick you up on something you said you said or seemed to suggest this could be part of something bigger do you have any evidence that this is being tied in with the egyptians possibly in coordination with the trumpet ministration is this part of the trump peace plan in your view you only some people from the elites political. elites also talking there is
something being cooking and it sounds like. something needs to end that conflict on that issue and because there is another if it there with the ending with. islamic state or what do you call it. this is the things there is something being in the plan to end the conflict in that region and in doing that what they call their islamic if it in that region so there are people talking there are many issues have been at this regarding this there are a ceratin a plan regarding the future of the bank and gaza being joined with the jordanian and something like this that people are talking behind the scenes that it's sound that is something we've been cooking and the palestinian will be part of it but they have to come united not as divided. in ramallah something
cooking are you hearing similar things that this could be not just a deal between fatah and hamas but could be part of a wider deal involving the americans involving the israelis i dubbed that very much there is a lot of rumors and speculations you hear it from journalists and analysts but i don't think there is a ground for this because given the nature of the politics of the god of the current israeli government there is no room for any kind of. compromise any kind of compromise because this israeli government is not prepared at all to give and take concerning the future of the palestinian occupied territories and i think that the american administration is too busy with two other more pressing and dramatic fides in that hand therefore i don't think at
all that this is going to be a part of anything bigger and probably this is only the conspiracy theory that is spreading all was very fast in this part of the world is either let me ask you more about the role of egypt in all this they seem to be the guarantor of this deal which was announced at dorm karo time in karo egypt and hamas is relationship has been somewhat complicated perhaps you describe it as being somewhat wary under mubarak then a mass which of course is a muslim brotherhood affiliate was very close with mohamed morsi his government after mohamed morsi is overthrown in july twenty thirty in how would you describe the evolving relationship between hamas and president see she's got it. well clearly the relations were very bad for a long while they've only started improving in the last few months one might say.
and part of that i think is that the hamas leadership that badly misjudged just how favorable conditions were after the arab spring into twenty eleven and the arrival of them some brotherhood to power in egypt in twenty twelve it's taken them a few years to rethink their overall approach and to understand that they simply have to patch up we've the most powerful regional governments that affect them and that's egypt first and foremost because of the joint border but also here again others in the gulf. but beyond that i think that whether it's for egypt or for us and for president i'm bass in palestine and i think tactical considerations are dominant here we you know you've focused earlier on the question of hamas weapons and assembly gates and what happens to them under the deal that clearly is not resolved yet whether hamas will go further towards reaching some
sort of formal peace deal with israel is another big question whether the u.s. will allow any of this all of these are left unanswered and i don't think egypt has enough clout to either force the palestinians nor you know bring the israelis to the table for reasons at the same copy just explained i think adequately so so if he just knows that it can deliver an actual peace deal and the palestinians understand that they haven't gone far enough amongst each other and that they can resolve these issues that probably means that everyone right now has very strong tactical reasons to get involved in a deal to go forward to stick to this deal to make it work and to make issues of daily life governments the flow of goods and trade and credit banks to. routes and so on to ease the crisis of gozo israel has an interest in that as well and therefore in a sense the more modest scenario suits everyone's purpose and defers the issues
that at the moment i don't think anyone is yet ready to deal with. as you know when you say as you say is wrong and it's very easy in a discussion like this to stick with the political and forget the real life of two million people because the people living in gaza are being caught in the middle of this rift between hamas and fatah the coastal enclave is currently controlled by hamas which is both the u.s. and the consider a terrorist organization the u.n. says living conditions there have deteriorated in the past ten years because of the blockade by israel and egypt making matters worse president mahmoud abbas is predominately fatah movement which is based in the west bank has been using its administrative power to pressure how mass in garza it cut the salaries of government employees living there and asked israel to reduce the electricity supply to the territory in the blazing heat this summer the power crisis was so bad garza's two million residents had as little as three hours of electricity a day armored you're there you live there how bad are things now. the
situation is very very bad electricity we are talking about four hours and twenty four hours and also the medical supplies the hospital is very charitable so the people are really looking for something to see something facts on the ground and this where the people that some of them showing joy and happiness. happiness for that they both agreed signed the agreement in cairo hoping that to see facts on the ground on the next few days or weeks that people will see the city improve and also the people be able to travel across the. to travel through the crossing of egypt and things to be sound more easy and then of life and also the student to feel in to feel or to see
a glimmer of hope for do something troubling and seeking their bills to their future abroad or something like this situation is still very very terrible and life people are living in very miserable lives so i hope that. the government will extend its support and help and really could be construction in. their minister is to make it all functioning that we the people are seeing in the west bank is it i don't want to sound cynical but that all full situation and the fact it seems so close to breaking point do you think that helps or hinders the steel. it's helped in the sense that the two main political parties couldn't go on ignoring the humanitarian plight of their own people it also means that. unfortunately the success of this deal at least in its first phase hinges rather
heavily on whether the u.s. the e.u. and others in the gulf in particular will back it up with increasing the flow of goods and people and credits into gaza which means getting israeli cooperation it also means that if the two civil services that thomas builds and of the p.a. used to run in gaza if they're to be merged and integrated then you need a financial package either to lay people off or to pay for the massive increase in the payroll and and already the palestinian authority is stretched have masses effectively broke and so for even this simple innocuous kind of thing to happen. other countries are going to have to step up and commit the sorts of resources to make this work in the first phase to build confidence to build public support in gaza otherwise we'll simply be creating a lot of resentment
a lot of disparity between those who are now back on the period of the palestinian authority versus those who used to be on the how mass burial and are receiving no salaries at all and since hamas used to prefer it to the threat of sort of as you had as i'm in gaza and in sinai we could simply be pushing people into their arms and i think we need a clear unambiguous sort of commitment by the e.u. us the israeli government and the g.c.c. to making this work because if they we go back to outcome outside terrorists we don't like that we won't deal with them we could end up really with a blocked situation that will simply collapse again. go silent let me ask you you heard there the idea that other countries need to step up particularly the us and the e.u. but even if they provide resources in the end it's up to israel to let them into gaza how do you think the israeli government's going to react to this. well if hamas will succeed in throwing this hot potato of the of governing
gaza into the lap of the p.a. then i think that there are certain serious obstacles for the success of the stars or one of it is the finances that refer to correctly but second the authority reality that is going to be faced in gaza and three the attitude of israel and their ited states in my analysis if the agreement will be limited by the civilian activities and by the palestinian government trying to contribute to alleviating the suffering in gaza and defuse the growing tension and prevent a possible explosion then i think that both israel and the united states. will have no problem with this but the minute they cross the border into security
or political agreements that will really end this split in the political sense i think that israel will start to put obstacles because israel is very comfortable with the current political split between fatah had have as between west bank and gaza thank you gerson and thank you to all our guests are made use of your son could keep and use eat so our year and thank you to you two for your time if you didn't catch all the program you can watch it again on the web at al-jazeera dot com if you have views on hamas and fatah and the deal go to our facebook pages facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story also on twitter our handle is at a.j. inside story tell us about today's program or what we should discuss next time but for me and all the team goodbye for now.
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