tv Inside Story 2017 Ep 297 Al Jazeera October 26, 2017 2:32pm-3:00pm AST
please allow each and every one of us to exercise our right iraqi forces have launched an assault to recapture al qaim and rob from i saw two towns on iraq's western border with syria are two of the armed groups last strongholds in the country leaflets were dropped over the area in northwestern anbar province on weapons day warning of the operation to come. the iraqi prime minister says his government won't accept anything but the cancellation of the kurds secession bit bodies in tehran for talks with iranian leaders iraq's kurdistan regional government had offered to freeze its secession bit but iraq says that does not go far enough. at least forty seven people have been killed in an explosion at a fireworks factory in indonesia the incident happened at an industrial complex in the city of tongue around just twenty five kilometers west of the capital jakarta. thousands of university students in barcelona demonstrating against spain's plans to dissolve the castle and government catalonia as president promised which is due
to speak shortly. prominent american civil rights organization the. devising african americans not to fly on american airlines is accusing the airline of a pattern of disrespectful and discriminate to read behavior american airlines has offered to hold talks about that it's up next inside story with patty. israel's accuse of the systematic abuse of palestinian boys an occupied. some are detained in the middle of the night accused of stone throwing the occupation by israel is considered illegal under international law but is it breaking other laws
and is there a hidden motive ation this is inside story. hello and well. come to the program i'm patty call hain handcuffed arrested and questioned without the presence of their lawyer or their parents a new report says that's common for palestinian teens picked up by israeli police the human rights group that salam and hama could accuse israel of systematically abusing young detainees in occupied east jerusalem israeli police say the report is inaccurate and misleading so what does it actually say the report includes statements from sixty boys suspected of stone throwing it found seventy percent of them did not understand they had a right to remain silent three out of ten of the boys did not speak to lawyers
before questioning in almost all the cases they were in the interrogation room on their own without parents or any other relative and eighty percent of the confessions the teenager signed were in hebrew a language they don't understand the guy is the executive director of bet salaam one of the groups that sponsored the report he says palestinian teens are particularly in need of legal protection the special laws that protects the rights of minors a few majors out there especially because of the understanding that this is an aging which people. are more vulnerable a can actually be scarred for life and traumatized for life through such experiences is so you want to have special protections in place we have a system in which and one side is the. police officers that prosecutors judges the jails will all in always ves rarely and in this case you have you know
that a student teenagers who are always on the receiving end of this of this reality is of course even though the laws have the uniform and protections that need to be upheld we end up in a reality that is consistently demonstrates that if a state in teenagers do not receive the protections that they deserve so let's now get the thoughts of our guest joining us today in ramallah we have ayad abu attash he is the accountability program director at the defense for children international in tel aviv we have yossi beilin former israeli minister of justice and also in ramallah we have in the stuff a bug the secretary general of the palestinian national initiative welcome to you all gentlemen i want to first talk about this report the statistics are absolutely startling but in some ways not surprising i had first to you what is your reaction when you see these numbers that are overwhelmingly show the abuse of children.
i think that the organization who produced the report before. reportedly came to the same conclusion and almost the same numbers. for example unicef in two thousand and thirteen report called children in military custody and they came to the conclusion that illiterate meant it's widespread systematic and institutionalize in the israeli ticket system now districts it's legal practices against but it's teenage children with her in the west bank or in is to sell them so despite the fact that pristine and children. theoretically enjoyed the right in shrines in the israeli civil law but in practice all the other rights throughout the system are violated since the early beginning of the rest of the appeared before the israeli courts so i believe that the numbers because we are
dealing. right. on their says are. realistic and almost all children who. interrogated by the israeli author it is exposed to a different types of the treatment and torture and the main purpose of this a practice is to extend extract a confession from the charge was which constitute the primary evidence before the court but yes i wanted to bring that you into this conversation as you mentioned there was a report we already unicef four five years ago it seems as if nothing has changed so this is a n.g.o.s really and you know could this possibly get into the consciousness of the israeli people because of who the authors golf course we should first of all and i'm very sorry that there is no israeli official a spokesman who is referring to these. important report i think that one should
have done it and they are of course not representing the coalition of today. so this is this is one point another point to put it in the context is that as you said it is it is an israeli organisation which is monitoring for us have been monitoring for years. rights and views of rights of palestinians. in the territories and this report is one of many other reports that they are issuing all those years now as to the future. usually what is happening is that on the one hand at least part of the. newspapers. are using this information and publishing eat for the knowledge of the general public and the instant is immortal and i mean in iraq it is important nothing is changed
we've known this for years. what we change is the end of occupation if you ask me whether i believe that under this government things like that will change in a very significant way i don't believe so but i do believe that here and there are things can be changed i don't think that everybody wants. the views of the riots of the juveniles in east jerusalem i don't think that there is a policy a plan to make the life more difficult and to benj them for me for jerusalem i do believe that what is best selling doing is a sacred job of exposing the situation that actually youngsters in east jerusalem are being treated like adults rather than youngsters in israel when they brought to the. detention to prison or or whatever and my hope is that the
opposition in israel will take this material and will use it as a very important information visit the police the police ministry and ask the proper questions and demand the proper answers and this may have an impact for the future this would not make the revolution you just said that you don't think anything is going to change into the current administration so let's stuff a let me put this to you he he just said he doesn't believe that this is a plan that this is an overall goal of making life so miserable for the palestinians in this part of jerusalem that they just say we're leaving because any pair or tell you when it comes to protecting their children that is the number one motivation for their existence do you believe that this is just the way things are or par or a broader strategy to make life miserable for the palestinians there so that they leave. you know i would disagree actually with the
conclusion of mr belin i think this is systematic and it is in it is in bedded in the israeli system and as a matter of fact this year and systematic violation of human rights of children to the level of torturing them physically and mentally and psychologically to the level of depriving them of basic rights like that i will be silent or that i for the will have to consult with their families or with their lawyers the fact that the miners with others including criminals the fact that then try to get them at night the fact that they're physically and mentally abused them this is part of a systematic treatment that is used against palestinian children and against palestinians and unit but that is not only systematic it's also part of a larger systematic approach which is a system of apartheid no israeli child would be israeli jewish child would be
treated in this manner. it is systematic against palestinian children whether they hold israeli id cards or whether they are from the rest of the could buy that it is so and the third matter which is very important is that everything that was put in this report which was issued by two israeli israeli going to is issues you should multiply it several times and then you will find that isn't compatible with the way palestinian children are treated in the west bank or if they are distant from gaza we are talking about systematic and not sure it's even treatment of the children in the west bank for the level of killing them sometimes that's right as of august twenty seven thousand three hundred thirty one to palestinian children in prison i have to go back to this this report is shocking but it's not shocking but think about it let's boil down what we're actually talking about we're talking about
children being dragged out of their home without their parents beaten not given a lawyer is forced him to sign a confession in a language they don't speak that is shocking why is the world silent let's go through first yossi why is this happening and why are more people angry about it first of all those one and angry about it is more than anybody is ourselves if that was true if you were the most outraged among you it would stop it doesn't stop until the israeli public is outraged till they demand change from their government because the palestinians can't vote what they consulting is druze and then they don't vote because they don't want to vote it is jews and them but generally speaking what i'm saying is that i don't want to compare it to interrogation scene in palestine. in jordan what i want to compare it only to the if you do well it's the juveniles in israel
a. non-police the non-police genius and the heel there is the problem. although according to the report the behavior of the day of the police is on the face of it at least according to the law i mean no obvious breaching of the of the law but practically there are if you do it is not the same attitude especially in the context of not in every link them to have their parents during the investigation or all the lawyers is the main problem according to the. report and i really believe that this is something that can be changed through the parliamentary system because in the parliament there are people who who believe that it is important i really don't see although i cannot prove it and the stuff
that cannot be refuted i don't believe that we are speaking about the system it's bad enough if this is the attitude it's very not even be without it being an apartheid system god forbid it's the palestinian kids. referred to and treated this way and that should be changed where you say it's not it has to be changed through the system but the system is going in the opposite direction just in twenty fifteen they changed the sentence in the maximum sentence now for throwing a stone without intent to cause harm is ten years let's put this in perspective throw a stone a rock you can get ten years in prison and in twenty fifteen a change to have the maximum sentence of if you have intent to cause injury which is very hard to prove but if you have intent to cause injury let's say can prove it because there's a course confession twenty years in prison twenty years the minimum there is one
fifth of the time so this is not a little thing these are children. who after their go through this torment they are going to face very real prison time so i have let me ask you is this the system that it seems as if the system is getting to the point where it's actually going to be harder and harder for these palestinian children. this is the case and all the amendments to the israeli legal system gets palestinians who are living in the east jerusalem so it's discriminatory against palestinian children because the israeli legal system originally was designed to deal with israeli children but the way by which the i through the treating but just in and children from is jerusalem make the exceptions in the israeli law is the rule so the according to the israeli youth law children have the right to be
accompanied by a parent that you are going to question the right to be silenced to consult with a lawyer and all of this protection and safeguards but when it comes to palestinian children. disputed by israel or all these rights deprived from the system the saudi member of us of the legal system is to suppress and control people who are living under the patients saw. the man be a boss of the legal system is not to administer justice without in the with or. is jerusalem so it's a system for suppressed control and oppression i think it's important to take a step back and let's look at this region the best salaam and hammock had report focuses on prisons in east jerusalem it's a region with a complicated history it was under jordan's jurisdiction in tel israel annexed the area after the one nine hundred sixty seven war israel's occupation of east
jerusalem is considered illegal under international law and even though the region's borders the west bank travel between the two areas it's a very restricted east jerusalem is highly coveted by both jews and muslims as it's home to important religious sites including the al aqsa mosque compound known as the temple mount to the jews about three hundred thousand palestinians live in east jerusalem as permanent residents. they're eligible for health of municipal services but are not considered citizens they can't vote for the knesset or bear an israeli passport i'm going to go to mr hall. these children what happens to them how does what does this do on the ground where they live let's say they don't get convicted they don't go to prison or they do when they get out. what how do they feel towards israel how are they impacted by this because this isn't just a report it's not a statistics i'm sure you know some of these children how does it impact that well
obviously these children go traumatized scarred as was told and this they will end up with a lifelong trauma so quality control now this could affect their ability to be healthy this will affect their ability to get proper education this will affect their decision whether they would stay. in or people of my age in the relation who were tortured by those early army and who decided just to leave the country they would saw frightened and sort of free and so shocked although i must also say that the systematic treatment of palestinian did not break our will in general. although we've been under military occupation since fifty years and let me just reiterate here the fact that i do agree that these practices are not only of a relation of israeli law itself when it comes to palestinians but they are also
systematic and i think that affidavit sure that very clearly and the several reports show that it's systematic it's not ok janelle it's not because a policeman is bad it's not because a judge is not doing their job properly it's a systematic racist treatment against palestinian children and their newest but distance in general and what is apartheid apartheid as two systems of laws practiced there were just two people living in the same area and that's exactly what we are suffering from not only palestinians and is jerusalem but also palestinians and the rest of the occupied that it is and i would even see it to a large extent in many areas but just in as we live in israel itself and carry israeli citizenship so practically here we see a system of apartheid we see systematic violation of human rights systematic revolution of children's rights why this is continuing for a simple factor. that the international community is not punishing for its violations because israel is allowed to be above the law and above international
law and above any human rights to be lucian and that should stop that's why there has to be measures like boycott divestment sanctions against the system of apartheid that is not third hurting the future of palestinians only want also the future of israel now i want you to diversity i want to separate fact that's the reality thank you mr i want you to be able to respond to this apartheid yes or no false note i know quite well what apartheid here is because i was the person in israel many years ago who actually influenced the government to sanction south africa it was in eighty seven and part of this is i mean what is the situation here and i'm telling it to most of is bad enough without being apartheid apartheid you are not allowed to marry each other to be with each other to live you know i'm going to tell you right there because that you can continue. to marry them in
israel and if i may say so you don't get it is that is how it how can you marry freely who you want to use the same roads inside cannot marry here. is that it is all done with stuff a lot of tradition. palestinians are not amount to about each other and live together you know that is the judaism is not allowed to marry up on the student i'm going to love because they cannot live together if she cannot have appeared to me to be with him in jerusalem because i do want to get to know them but i don't have as of his privileges because i hold on i want as i was to stop please off i want to you know see the fuss mostafa mostafa i don't put me in a situation where i have to take an attorney oh ok you know me enough i hate the situation it is not bound by time and i mean is there any dual in iraq jule can marry in is just was an event to be slow problem this is not a thought i don't know that the not ok gentlemen i'm moving on we've talked
a lot about israeli law and how they're used to live just a jew. we're running out of time i'm going to we're going to move on and so here here's what i want to talk about the convention on the rights of the child israel is that sir israel is a signatory and signed into law nine hundred ninety they ratified in the knesset august one thousand nine hundred one this is what israel agreed to and this is article thirty seven of this convention which the entire world has signed on to except somalia and the united states but israel you agree to this you agreed that when it comes to children you will not torture that you will not be detained unless it's a measure of last resort you shall not be separated from adults and that is the thing i want you to not forget about this we're talking about children who don't have their parents and their parents can't be there for their children and you promised that they would have lawyers none of this is happening so what's the recourse israel is clearly according to all of you that any thought about devils and i mean
we're speaking about a result which was obvious by israelis to show the world the problem here you people like my sense i suppose in this report you are recently told me. if i'm the one who is don't showing i can tell you do you both does not refill. full. in a significant way the problems make it also are there no no i'm sure many of them ok we're we're we're running out of time and i had a minute not very analogy and it is very much you know the main issue is their lawyers well. they don't need all their parents because they're treated not that many of them but adults and that should be changed the whole story is this a marginal problem or is this the life of a palestinian child and history of islam. this is the daily life a palestinian children because israel do not respect any of the articles mentioned
in the c.r.c. despite the fact that israel as a state party to the convention and we believe that it's the role of the international community to practice a pressure on israel to force it to abide to its legal obligation under the c.r.c. and other human rights instruments ok so i spy the fact that the international community is with aware about israel all right guys about are running out of time sauces against children but so far there is no and our guys were running out of time so i pleased i don't want to be hard stick to a yes or no answer and we're going to go down the line does this change anything i am i think the report reflect what's going on the ground you know like a guys live under all our yes or no practice is this in any significant report would come to the same conclusion ok so does anyone really think it's important to raise the awareness and to put the pressure on the international community to.
punish israel for these practices hard to give a simple answer to a complicated subject i want to thank my guests i had attash yossi beilin and my stuff about gucci thank you all for joining us and thank you for watching you can see the program and again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com for slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a.j. inside story for me particle and the whole team here by.
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