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tv   Up Front 2017 Ep 32  Al Jazeera  November 3, 2017 10:32pm-11:00pm AST

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after walking away from his post this is been a terrible ordeal. you can't the background ordeal that you're all familiar with. time during judge nancy's deliberations has been particularly. anxiety inducing for obvious reasons he's certainly glad this is over the united nations are going astray to restore food water and health services to six hundred refugees are refusing to leave its decommission prison camp on top of new guinea's mannus i'm in the camp closed on tuesday but the refugees are too scared to leave because of previous attacks from locals. thousands of people in malta have attended a funeral for the journalist daphne current and was killed by a car bomb last month the european union is calling on long to find those responsible that's all for us for now you're up to date is coming next though an upfront special as we approach the first anniversary of donald trump's presidential
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election victory will see anything but later. it's been a year since donald trump shot election victory and yet the controversies keep coming this week his former campaign chairman was charged with conspiring against the u.s. one another former campaign aide pleaded guilty to lying to the f.b.i. about his contacts with russia in this hour from special all challenge prominent conservative supporter and former president of the u.s. national rifle association david keene on president trump's record so far and ask when it comes to guns whether the n.r.a. is helping or hurting.
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david keene thanks for joining me on up front almost exactly a year ago donald trump won the presidential election proved all of his critics and opponents wrong but what they don't seem to be wrong about is that his presidency would be the disaster that seems to have become on monday of this week paul campaign was indicted on several charges pleaded not guilty to several charges including conspiracy against the united states how bad do you think it is for a president of the us to have someone. in that way is former campaign chairman a guy who used to call him twenty times a day called him a great asset known him for forty years he lives inside trump tower and that apartment that this guy is surrendering most of the f.b.i. but there are a lot of people that live in trump towers i'll tell you this. when you look at what happened recently in these in these indictments there are
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a lot of legal experts that have looked at it and said basically what we're talking about is over charging for purposes of leverage mr mann afford and i'm not here to defend him and i'm not going to defend him he was charged with with his conspiracy against the united states was that he hadn't filed as a foreign agent for activities that took place and long before he was associated with trump in the campaign the indictments run to twenty seventeen that's not true donald trump lied this week on twitter when he said that you know the utilities run up to twenty seven he was indicted there are two items from one let's be clear about them very very few people if any have been indicted on felony charges for what he did generally a misdemeanor generally what they say is you haven't registered you need to do it so there's that secondly the money laundering charge that was brought against him is on the face of it is going to be very difficult to prove because the statute requires you know that for money laundering you have to be laundering money that's the result of
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a crime when the campaign chairman of the president of states has to surrender himself when a former campaign adviser to the present united states admits pleads guilty to lying to the f.b.i. about his connection to the russians about something you don't think damages the president makes the president look pretty system of course it looks bad to things though one he was the he was he was hired by trump to do the convention which is what he does secondly none of these charges as as everybody is observed have anything to do with collusion none of them have to do with the campaign that george mcgovern charges against the advice the other guy guilty is to do with other guys in my life ever met was was not you know i don't know is irrelevant to trump i know that trump well he he was in campaigns put together these volunteer advisory boards you know they announced a whole bunch of people thank goodness a lot of those people never went into the administration or anything but to say that's to say that's a high campaign adviser he said. next to trump trump called him an excellent guy next to truck guy but he did. you spoke in defense of trump saying in
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a speech last month that hoping for trump's removal from office by impeachment or indictment for colluding with the nation's enemies is unconscionable and incredibly dangerous let's be clear the republican party that your politics of tried and failed to impeach bill clinton over a sex scandal with an intern some of them wants to impeach barack obama of a bengali executive orders and the rest and yet you'll say the democrats a liberal shouldn't mention the way to impeachment when trump sachs is f.b.i. chief said i did it because of russia and a former adviser pleads guilty to lying about when i never said that they shouldn't mention it i think that impeachment is something that divides and is very difficult to do the impeachment against against clinton didn't work but you would accept it's a legitimate discussion right now given the kind of things we're going to the political tool congress has every right to do that whether it's wise or whether it can succeed or whether it's good for the country you called it is unconscionable because there was a president might be working with the nation's enemies if we should investigate and
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maybe impeach him. to get there is no longer there is no evidence that the president has ever worked with the nation's enemies there is evidence that people around trump tied to russia trump may be tied to russia we've not seen attacks in what is what mean tied to russia connection to russia we know that don't we don't know as russians no no no that means they met with the russian government officials are trying to do that because you've met with government russian if not to attend a u.s. election come and you know that's against the no evidence yes there is there's the road a better way to lose what we know they don't know met with ok here's what i don't get the n.s.a. the f.b.i. the cia all say vladimir putin interfered in the election what do you know they don't know i don't know anything that they don't know. or think it's likely you know i'll tell you this you think if the russians the americans we all interfered in elections all the time does it usually work when when you're pro russian to the . oh no i don't not that's not i'm not that i'm not my only point is that it is not
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my fault that i can't imagine if the president hillary clinton campaign chairman indicted her advise a pleading guilty to russia go that she had sacked the f.b.i. sitting here just your driving isn't helping you get insurance on an order of business partners you'd say dangerous unconscionable if it president hillary clinton should be impeached by now by the g.o.p. if she'd done ten percent of what you know that and i know that i know you that's not true just to be clear i mean one of the issues i'm going to talk about guns and your new book donald trump has the support of the n.r.a. even though he used to be a big supporter of gun control but he switched on not like he switched a lot of things how can you trust him on gun control or any other she this is a guy who according to the washington post has made thirteen hundred full statement since his inauguration that's around five lies a day and you trust him you know that i don't know that that's true either but we do trust him on that for a variety of reasons one he made a commitment secondly he stuck to the commitment and we're very pleased with what he's substantively done in this area and particularly in this isn't just people that are second amendment supporters but the constitution in the supreme court
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became a big issue in two thousand and sixteen he made a commitment that he would appoint people who were basically originalists like antonin scalia justice to the court with the appointment of neil gore sixty delivered on that the appointments of this administration at the lower levels in the courts have been something that conservatives would like so so are you going can we trust them yes i think we can you must be one of the few people who say that david keene on the subject of guns it's been over a month since a gunman killed fifty eight people and injured more than four hundred people in las vegas in what is considered to be one of the deadliest mass shootings in modern american history and yet apart from offering condolences and pray is neither the president nor congress has done anything in terms of legislation to stop such an attack from happening again do you know of any other government in the world that would sit back and do nothing as the u.s. government does with the n.r.a. support each and every mass shooting the question is what can you do what. law could you pass that would have prevented what happened there or prevented some of
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these things now let's put these these mass shootings in and the killing of any person whether it's with a gun or a knife or with a truck is a tragedy but let's ask ourselves what can you do that's been proposed that would prevent that sort of thing and one of the reasons that a lot of these new laws that are feel good laws that have been suggested by people haven't been passed is because they ultimately come up to the question is of this and this is what happens in congress and elsewhere if that law passed would it have prevented this or would have would it prevent another activity like this and the answer is always well no but it would be a good thing to do many would say that the laws have been passed because of the power of the n.r.a. and those laws which obviously we obviously we speak which imo is only millions of american gun owners you do but the fact of the matter is that speaking for people is not enough you also have to be able to make a country so making a case you say what can be done this is a global channel a global t.v. show millions of people around the world are watching this who don't have the same
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problems of guns in the united states as other countries have managed to solve this problem do you know what the u.k. government did in march one thousand nine hundred six after a man shot and killed sixteen children in dunblane scotland in great britain today what did the u.k. do they banned you can you even have to go outside of britain to say about hunger the olympic you know it's current has been how many and how many mass shootings in the handgun since one thousand nine hundred six usually mass shootings don't take place with handguns no this one did dunblane did ok so how many since then. there are surprise surprise well there aren't very many mass shootings anywhere do you know anybody just oh that's not true you know do you know what the australian government didn't april one thousand nine hundred six when a man use an automatic rifle to everybody i mean a ban shotguns and they destroyed most of the weapons you know how many mass shootings have been in australia since one thousand nine hundred six if you talk about mass here as opposed to pride while roger simon violent crime in an australian something we're talking about just about shooting people are not as much as shooting them so. wells and their family but you do realize that the gun crime
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came gun violence went down in australia that if you don't really know how to use a knife or a baseball bat you're going to have the same number of deaths and you would have the same number of deaths there all the same number of deaths there are the same number you believe they're the same number of deaths with baseball bats and they're all with guns it was country for a they just are going to gamble for this country according the u.s. government every year more people are beaten to death with fish than are than are killed with all the long guns including some automatic weapons period ok so should we ban fish we call money that salvia matter is what you found about weaponry you can never stick to and no one's even asking for banning it there's a second amendment in the constitution in this country your book is about that which says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed but it's about restricting access to us has ninety six times the gun homicide rate is canada seven times as high as sweden sixteen times as high as germany and you're saying we can do anything about it everyone else in the west has managed to do something about it those are very different countries exactly different they don't have a second amendment they don't have this gun culture that you have we have
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a gun culture which we're very proud of even though it needs to be the title of the book the reference that i or that i coauthored shall not be infringed is a reference to not just the second amendment but the reason the second amendment was adopted it did not stablish in this country the right to own a firearm nor did it stablish the right to defend to defend oneself what it did was recognize the preexisting right that philosophers have talked about for thousands of years of the right of a man and a woman to defend themselves their families or communities. against a hostile actors in the united states at the time of its formation. defend incorporated that right into the constitution so it would be there a lot of people again watching around the world would say so what seven hundred ninety one i think the second amendment was passed things changed the world moves on slaves were mentioned in the constitution in seventy ninety one the united states abolished slavery amended the constitution while you type i think a lot of your going to scripture it's a lot of a lot of tall yourself just
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a lot of you know you were dying as a result in a lot of countries know that they would like to have the right to defend themselves and their families the united states is not the most violent country you know how many countries in the world guarantee a right to bear arms and it comes to the united states that's not the point you know how many in most you know how many of britain for example you know how defend yourself you can be arrested nobody and britain looks at america and says we want to america's gun problem i can assure you that i have in fact many my life in the united states i think will show the polling is just like american politics the majority of americans want gun control you do realize the n.r.a. is in the minority it is the polls show that even gun owners hands a majority of government is about universal background check and i support it on a daily basis but it depends entirely on how you ask the question and in fact the support for the second amendment rights is growing in today's if you look at poll of the cohort that is most supportive today of second amendment rights are the
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youngest voters that are coming in so the the in attitudes change over time but the put the support for the second amendment right of. the second amendment nice goalpost shifting the majority of gun owners a majority of americans support universal background checks a gun database more gun to your organization doesn't seem like the majority of americans on gun and it's probably the majority of americans not even going to be lots of pens about half your present among about half our thirty percent according to the pew polling from this year you know it depends again on the poll because of what you intend to let me let me tell you that when you say something like the believe in universal background checks that's a feel good question then when you ask question. it is about do you think that if you sell a gun or give a gun to your grandchild that should require you to go to the government and get a thing then they say oh no the biggest gun seller in america is wal-mart if you go to wal-mart and that's where most are places like that a point is you can buy guns outside of wal-mart you can get on your you can without any i provide any id well you can buy in a private sale just as you can buy
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a car in a private sale without going through a dealer yeah and you still have to get very very good to do it and i said very well your car you have ever purchased that way in fact there have been studies of felons where do you get your guns they don't get them illegally it's interesting it's interesting point it's interesting mention cause car is it can be a deadly weapon as we saw in new york a truck or a car but you need a license to drive a car you need a health check to drive a car need a cite test to drive a car you need to pasta test a driver nothing you need to ensure there's nothing in the constitution that guarantees you the right to drive a car that's seen as a group you've heard all the shouting you know what is in the constitution a right to vote why is it what is easier to buy a gun in the majority of american states than it is easy to feel it is not yes it is just it is not you don't need to photo i.d. surely you can tell me your just tell me i'm going to know you do not let me tell you what the law is as opposed to just bantering back you just told me you know i told you as you did not say you can do it up with private sale without id no no you
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have to stay is if you're a private seller most private sales where there's any question for example if you go to a gun show ninety nine percent of the firearms that are sold are sold by dealers because that's who's there are people with licenses that require as a background check the law says that if you sell me a gun. and you have you have any reason to suspect that i might be a prohibited person somebody that wouldn't pass you know background check then you become liable you know what happens at a gun show in virginia for example is the state police have a table they're in for five dollars you can have a background check run on me ok but that's that's not respect that is not a long wait a minute so. can i get one and we need to make the clearing out time can i buy a gun in the us for my next door neighbor or for my brother providing id yes or no if he doesn't know you'd be he'd be dangerous shall you got to deal with the question asked can i buy a gun from my neighbor or my best friend of my brother without providing id can i vote in thirty two states in america without providing id for it is yes you can no
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you cannot do you know you should know it most states you can't know in thirty two states you should. do you know you go to vote with your brother and your state if you have a family election my point is it is easier to buy a gun then over the years and that is what kind of democracy it is you've just admitted that you don't need an id you just admitted it in your family to my friends so you get to my know you have a family council you don't have to. i think i think you made the point i don't need i. truly ridiculous so no i think it's a good i think it's a very valid point that it's easier to buy a gun without id than it is to vote no id i think that's that's a pretty astonishing fact let's go back to the legal illegal point you made the point about whether criminals get their guns in them you look at some of the iconic mass shootings the horrible mass shootings we've seen some of the deadly mass shootings we've seen in america and in the united states in recent years you think of las vegas most recently you think of you think of all land you think of sandy
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hook you think you think of san bernadino you think of the church in south carolina the shooters obtained their guns legally but that doesn't bother you virtually all of the difference being sandy hook where the the shooter was a deranged young man who shot his mother killed his mother and stole the gun from her in the other instances take las vegas as a most recent example. this guy had never been arrested for anything he would have passed any background check and did. purchase his gun. you know so it's very difficult to imagine a systems systems of your system use. well the status quo is a mess you're admitting that these mass shootings happened would legally on guns or something about it throw your hands up and you know i didn't say that because in each of these cases less than there are specific i'm going to you're right i know it's a lesson i'll finish this the aurora shooter as one the shooter that went to the navy yard here and in most of the other cases somebody recognized there was
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something wrong with these people they were shooter was thrown out of a gun range in rhode island the fellow who shot up the navy yard was stopped by the police who called the navy and said there's something wrong with this guy and in each of these cases these are not traditional criminals these are people who are on and you know who are you to shows who have mental health problem not all of them but yes some of them three out of four guns used in mass shootings between one thousand nine hundred two and two thousand and twelve obtained illegally yo. so it's not just going to say the criminals getting closer to us shit is you need to control the sale of guns if this is what is the control of guns is why does the law says you do the it or not you want i don't like markets these are do you know exactly these are people who had background system doesn't work they had background checks they purchased the firearms legally and there was something wrong with them that could not be picked up in either a background check or their criminal records or in any other way so what would you do ok study after study shows and again and again whether it's by the national bureau of economic research boston university school of public health university of harvard university of toronto that states in the us that have tighter gun control
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laws and fewer guns have fewer gun related homicides suicides and accidental deaths that's just a fact across the board sixty six over sixty percent of the homicides with firearms take place in a in a number of major urban centers most of them are related to drugs guns and mental difficulties and let's take the sort of poster child for gun violence today which is chicago in chicago you have the tightest gun control laws of any major city with the exception of new york and chicago could if you were to take a gun and rob a seven eleven you would have committed at least two crimes the state crime of robbing the seven eleven and a federal crime of using a firearm to commit a felony. in all the federal jurisdictions in this country where there are the least indictments for doing that can mean the federal crime of using a firearm to commit a felony chicago because they don't they try not to blame the criminal they try to
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blame and yet despite chicago the most gun deaths happen in states with lucid gun laws and more guns that's what all the studies show the internal medicine journal study of twenty thirteen a high number of foreigners in the state are associate with a lower rate of firearms fatalities lower rates of suicide and homicide and we have so many most of the most of the homicides take place in major cities sixty percent of them in major cities that have the right it's going to look to me what i'm asking you national bureau of economic as a i'm quoting studies you're asking kind of rhetorical questions u.s. states would more guns have more gun gun homicides national bureau of economic research the ball guns or not will just go through those both which they expose it's both it's with commonsense and it's supported by every study you have any legislation of the otherwise you know what i say to the u.s. has six times the gun homicide rate of canada seven times sweden sixteen times as germany you're ok with that let's just be clear you're ok with that because that's not ok with well that's the reason being killed by anyone i'm asking about the
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rates you're ok that because i said to you you're unique you said we're proud of that you're proud that you have sixteen times as many and that's going to sites as jordan as that's because of the existence of guns yes what do you think it's because of that every other western country has the let me just ask you a question based on all your studies in the government studies. twenty years ago and today. they were happy about half as many guns in circulation twenty years ago as there are today how does the murder rate compare that's because crime has gone down across the board and then half of what it was then yes because it's not a crime and i cry every time i get out of the mall police on the street there are many factors that come up that i didn't say there are other factors that i know that's what your signal i did not i am saying that your argument that homicide alone as old as the existence of guns some of them are clearly not true is not a direct relationship there's not a direct relationship between ok so the us is just it's just a freak of nature that the united states has so many more gun deaths than the other western countries that don't have the same level of guns you do have stronger gun
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laws in the u.k. and australia than again ited states don't go it's ok it's a coincidence ok let me ask you this do you think it's wise when you have parents grieving the deaths of children in places like sandy hook when you have ninety people a day being killed you have suicides with guns because why in a country where guns cause so much anguish and home to families for you to say that guns are cool as you did a few years ago. that has a good as those are not related kinds of things you know more people so people are killed by automobiles i think a lot of cars are cool. ok but this isn't that your question you see the different of what an automobile is not designed to be a weapon a gun is you don't see the difference really the problem is the person that using it not the gun i have you know i've never been i've never seen a gun jump off a shelf and kill anybody so i've seen criminals use guns i've seen people who have mental problems you know not criminals use guns as we discussed so this is just me we have run out of time but you want to so you the problem is the person using the
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gun so then shouldn't the n.r.a. support lots of gun control to stop people from getting so many gun we support. prosecuting criminals who michel fournier and i we always have so you don't care about prevention let's talk about rights you know this is back in the ninety's when we funded this but in the ninety's the number four city in this country in terms of the homicide rate was richmond virginia and we funded something which was called project exile and what it was was to get everybody used a firearm illegally prosecuted under the federal law we advertise it was five years in prison within the first year the homicide rate dropped thirty percent the next year it dropped twenty percent because if you prosecute gun criminals you lessen gun crime the fact is that one of the empirical pieces of evidence you can look at is that if you prosecute gun crime. gun crime goes down because criminals now we're
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not talking about the insane person the mentally ill somebody who commits suicide but the vast majority of. people that you're talking about crime gun crime goes down because criminals we want to think about they are actually. the people they know that they're going to be arrested and prosecuted and in prison for committing a crime with a firearm they're not likely that we would reduce the vast majority of deaths which are from suicides from accidental deaths it wouldn't tell you what you do still have a record level of deaths let me also just last question you have kids in schools here doing security drills to prepare for mass shootings you have metal detectors everywhere you have mass shootings becoming more and more commonplace you do realize don't you david keene that the rest of the looks of the united states looks at your gun culture and thinks you're one of it amount to tolerate well you know live like this following sandy hook. the n.r.a. asked. that we that we that every school district in every jurisdiction ought to look at the schools and ask how do we protect our
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kids. first the administration the president so so that's an insane idea because they want armed guards and they realize that there are guards what they call schools security officers you know and most of them and most of the big city schools and in this country today schools have locks they have lights to prevent rapes to prevent all of this some of them have firearms some of protect themselves protecting your kids is a good idea a lot of schools have security officers and have had and will have and should have but that's up to each school this is a country where that's up to each school district to the parents the administrators and the law enforcement officers david thanks for joining me tonight from a pleasure.
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november on al-jazeera. in a historic visit the pope will travel to me in my am bangladesh bringing more focus to the plight of the region jeff. a new six part series about extraordinary lives of the common people from across tunisia. as the u.s. backs away from the paris climate agreement well diplomats will be gathering in bone to restate that commitment. from the heart of asia one when east brings captivating stories and award winning feel. as tensions on the korean peninsula remain high president trump mbox in a five nation tour to east asia nov on al-jazeera. the story that's how the guy does impact on me were probably the magic on
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a message that if my nose died and we where there were no fanfare television things being an eye on that spot at that time to dismiss some of that science the story out of the story and phones and stuff like that tonight i want this to be over in malaysia like al-jazeera english because the news is not sent it and if they miss any of the news any of it is there to watch our life. hello there i'm julie macdonald to here in london our top stories on al-jazeera a spanish judge has issued an international arrest warrant for i was that kaplan leader called mall it s. spain earlier this week for belgium and has already said he'll fight any attempt to extradite him.


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