tv Inside Story 2017 Ep 320 Al Jazeera November 18, 2017 2:32pm-3:00pm +03
to day the modern day why didn't you go. lebanon's prime minister saad hariri has arrived in paris has been greeted by the french president about a while back rob it's two weeks after hirai very suddenly announced his resignation in the saudi capital he's in paris with his wife and two of his children remain in riyadh hariri is told the lebanese president will be back in the country on wednesday. doctors in syria's eastern ghouta say many residents could die if they're not immediately evacuated four hundred thousand syrians living in the damascus suburb have been besieged by government forces for the past four years the area sided with opposition fighters there that's meant that food aid and medical supplies have not been making it in. have to be completely sealed off since august the rafa border crossing from gaza to egypt has reopened but only temporarily rather is meant to open indefinitely later as part of a palestinian reconciliation deal brokered by egypt hundreds of people queued for
hours at the border to have their paperwork processed so they could cross only humanitarian cases from gaza are allowed into egypt at this stage i'll be back with more news in thirty minutes that's on al-jazeera its inside story to stay with us. dissolved by cambodia's top court the main opposition party is urging world powers to cut ties with longtime leader send but china is standing firmly behind it so what's behind cambodia's crackdown on the opposition this is inside story.
hello welcome to the program i'm adrian finnegan sixty five year old one cent is one of the world's longest serving leaders first taking office as prime minister of cambodia in one nine hundred eighty five rights groups say that hundreds of opposition figures journalists trade union leaders and others have been killed in politically motivated attacks during his time in power human rights watch says that none of the killings has been investigated credibly when sens dominance was challenged in parliamentary elections in twenty thirteen when the newly formed cambodian national rescue party nearly pulled off an upset but since then its leaders have either been jailed or gone into exile and now the supreme court has dissolved the party accepting the government's claim that it conspired with
foreigners to stage a revolution this effectively allows the ruling party to run uncontested in next year's polls well prime minister hun sen gave an address on state television saying the decision was necessary to maintain peace and political stability and china has expressed its support of the government we have a lot to get to with our guests in just a moment but first our report from iraq mcbride implant pain. the death of democracy that's what it says on the front page of the phnom penh post but it's the last major english language paper on the stands after the closure of a fellow publication the cambodia daily a couple of months ago all part of a general rollback of civil society that it's claimed has been taking place here in recent times it's also included according to rights groups curbs on the activities of some foreign n.g.o.s at the last election three million people went out and voted for the opposition see an r.p.
but you do well not to admit you were one of them under the current political climate. did you support the syrian r.p. . thank you. oh i don't know about that. we just want to have a good living and the country and to develop. the see an r.p. leadership has appealed to the international community to intervene but while there has been condemnation from abroad it's a very different international community that saved cambodia from civil war twenty five years ago and set it on the path of democracy many would argue the united states is not the international player it used to be and the investment from china that is changing the skyline of phnom penh tells you it's the chinese that are now the biggest influence here and beijing certainly likes the way prime minister hun sen needs doing things with his emphasis on national security and stability virtues
that it approves of the country it calls rather cambodia. so let's bring in our guests for today's discussion from paris we're joined by more such well vice president of the opposition cambodia national rescue party from beijing to go director of the china national association of international. that is from washington d.c. we're joined by hoss oakley mark yama director of the european center for international political economy thank you all for being with us let's start with you you wrote in a newspaper article on friday that democracy was on trial this week in cambodia and that it lost the supreme court decision set of the death knell for democracy in cambodia it was a big blow for democracy in cambodia that is not a fatal blow because democracy in cambodia is
a poor of huge pool of democratic forces in cambodia that includes the rural poor civil servants they used intellectuals the workers all of us we want change we are the forces that mr han sen wants to demolish and he can't because it's in shrine and in the hearts and minds in the spirit of the cambodian people for change change without bloodshed change through three fair and inclusive elections all right so the supreme court's decision may not have been a knockout blow but what does it mean for next year's elections. it is very clear that we can say from now from yesterday even before yesterday that mr huhne san is manipulating is cutting off any chance for free and fair elections in two thousand and eighteen because mr canst not stand any chance at all
in two thousand and eighteen if the opposition party the democratic forces together for in two thousand and eighteen but very certain determined to keep peace movement of democrats in cambodia going for the sake of democracy for stability for our people because we do not want to step on said who is a former khmer rouge we do not want to go back to genocide it was difficult as you saw from from our reports to ascertain what what people think on the streets in cambodia given that the c.l.p. enjoyed it a good deal of support at elections in the country how do its voters feel about what's happened what are the implications for the people of cambodia the supreme court's decision at this moment in the world voters are keeping their votes for c n r p the opposition cambodia yesterday the trial was. supposed to be
a public trial however you saw a blockades of police in civilian clothes as well forces that is all what mr han sent wants to say to me are people demolished. they have confidence and spread fear in up with people that's not going to happen we will continue and we will continue by saying again and again it is only through the release of missed the president did return of all of us including mr some nancy and a civil society independent media so that we can put democracy back on track it is not determined by anybody else but by democratic forces because we want cambodia to move forward and it can move forward but he has to be rule of law and the
corruption and the deforestation and the forced evictions and so on so that we can be build cambodia and we can have it in a mic stand the social stability and political stability that. go in beijing which china has view of what happened this week in cambodia. well i think at the marcus is always a worthy goal for all the people in all the countries to pursue how to really get to democracy and how to promote democracy is a very important question for people in countries like cambodia to consider because there may be occasions where the pursuit of so-called democracy of me actually and up in loss of social stability which may bring back greater loss of wealth of stability of good wellbeing for the people in our income badia i was in
cambodia earlier this year and i saw with my own eyes that there was a good rate of economic development people generally speaking were happy with the improvement in their living standards and i would say that the people at large desire stability and peace and more alternate development of their country and i think these are the major trends in. boulder now of course in any country including especially countries like cambodia there may be you know social tensions and social problems and different ways to look at democracy and the pursuit of greater democracy for example all these things need to be sorted out by the people in that particular country china and commodious have excellent relations and china is very much committed to help compose the maintain social stability and political stability so that people in that country which is
a great friendly country to china can really pursue ok more peacefully more leisurely their pursuit of democracy victor we'll talk more about china's relationship with cambodia in just a moment a come back to bear with me but both of our other guests on today's program are shaking their heads as you as you as you speak. what do you make of what you just heard. of course we want stability of course economic growth of course we're not saying no but we can't we say but not at a cost of human rights at a cost of a lot of other than for us national resources and it cannot maintain this top pipe of stability if it's going to run in cambodia as a one party. system and still in say in is not has not been willing to reform the courts and the judiciary to do is no checks and balances look investments will also depend on. is system that works that it's not clear yet how
long can this be maintained and now with the challenge of the opposition without free and fair elections and if they don't and very soon there will be sanctions from the western countries what is mr holmes and going to do about the jobs that will be lost in the government sector most are talking about seven hundred thousand workers in these factories possibly. in washington of a sort of interrupt you that will come back and it just about the book what do you make of what you've heard so it is true in a sense that china's place of people to a role in this relationship because in the end the world community even where there is a coherence between the e.u. and the united states will not achieve actually much of a change or do they form a credit situation on the ground without actually real cooperation from china and that considering that what we heard now and also will be seen in the last twenty
years is that there are very different let's say objectively in terms of what we want to achieve in cambodia and i think that the the extent that we can achieve for example through sanction and the aid from the e.u. and united states is going to be really limited if this is what we also learn for example in the situation the myanmar in the paused and also in other areas where we had situations for example in the ukraine and on so essentially until the situation between china and the come come bodi a change in either direction and the efforts will be a relatively limited. i think to go i read somewhere that the china accounts for twenty percent of capital spending in cambodia has worked pretty hard to develop a close relationship with cambodia why what's in it for beijing is that cambodia is china's route to building closer ties with with other nations.
you know turn the commode in relations go back for thousands of years and there are very deep records detail the records about how these two countries conducted friendly good neighborly relations with each other in more recent decades of course when the former king see arnold was forced into exile he was not or come by any other country but then he got huge work in china in the one nine hundred seventy s. it cetera saw in there says china back in the ninety's seventies and eighties came to come boldly as aid and helped the former king restore his rule in cambodia and one cambodian was occupied by four vietnam china came to the rescue of cambodia and china played an dispensable role in helping come valdivia be avoiding being. assimilated into all these are for the record and the two
countries have ever become very close friends comrades in arms as weak as an all weather friends as was our prime say and the two countries stand very close there are major regional issues and international issues of course china is the largest contributor in terms of foreign aid or foreign investment in cambodia and i would say kumble deers recent years economic development is very much thanks to very close cooperation with china and i think china is proposing major infrastructure projects connectivity projects projects aimed at improving the living standards of the people improve their health standards improving the education standards it's also making the government more transparent and more accountable to the people all these are very important measures and i think china fully respects the
internal affairs of come. and if for example democratic elections will come up with results which are different from the allocation of power in cambodia today then that's fine china will accept that factor but before then i think i think china's very firmly promoting more political and social stability in cambodia rather then intervening in cambodia domestic affairs by foreign powers therefore i think china believes resulting to asking for foreign powers to be involved in domestic political decisions in cambodia ok maybe the wrong choice victor a very brief answer if you wouldn't mind please how how then would china view any attempts to bring about targeted sanctions on cambodia's leaders sanctions were not working as a general rule of principle and i think that china will have nothing to do with the so-called international sanctions whatever sanctions that may come from any other
country i think china will very much stick with its friendship and cooperation and partnership with cambodia and come to the rescue of cambodia again. musard sure to what extent is the international community's response to what's happened previously in cambodia contributed to what's happening now we mentioned targeted sanctions there what do you think the international community should do now. the international community has waited for twenty five years for mr one cent of reform and given mr han said the chance. for economic growth and there has been economic growth but at the same time what we are losing we are losing defend amental values which is cambodia cannot move forward without democracy and mr consent needs to legitimacy from the western world and we have been a hands if we talk about economic growth how come we have close to two million
cambodians working outside of cambodia unskilled labor migrant workers in the neighboring countries like thailand so they are all it's a number of issues that mr finn said will have to address and they are don't forget youth who represent seventy percent of this population in cambodia that are not going to wait when they can they see their parents losing their land being forced out of their land and they have to go seek in the problem and at the lowest lowest gains for their parents they will have to say no we want change and that's how we the national rescue party see an api continue to have to make gains and that's what we talk about then we'll cross the change without interference from the rest of the will however the international community including china we want it would in peace yes also be.
yes ok but human rights as well ok most likely makiya in washington that to go says that targeted sanctions won't work would they make any difference what further steps if if the international community decides to go down that road what further steps could it take to sanctions if china refuses to abide by them. well let me put it this way i think mr gallo is absolutely right in the sense that there is a strong economic relations with china but i think the slightly mistaken about the counterpart on the cambodian side is not necessarily with the cambodian economy but it's actually with mr hoon sen and also the people's party if you look at the cambodian economy as a whole if you look at the people it is mostly dependent on trade with europe about five billion of the cambodian export is actually going to europe thanks to the duty
free and quota free iranians we have a range for the least developing countries and the cambodian has been one of the main beneficiary of that did iran judgment and now if you look at that number i actually entails it's actually in the quarter all the entire cambodian economy and if you look at key sectors for example like textiles most though they export actually go to europe and so in that sense they are real economic link is between the europe and the cambodia so china's trade was actually cambodia is relatively limited there are of course the financial things but these are primarily with the leadership of the people's party and that's a very very different and they which is also one of the reason why if we would have asset freezes or visa bans for the leadership of cambodia it is very likely that they would have relatively limited effect size from the naming and shaming of the
people party leadership including mr ascend and the next step which is going to be the big and the nuclear option is actually trade sanctions and at that stage we will see that the entire economy will start to suffer ok well the european union has warned that fundamental human rights should be respected to assure cambodia's juji free access to the blocs markets e.u. countries as we were hearing it accounted for around. forty percent of cambodia's exports last year mainly clothes the u.s. give similar preference preferences for garments made in cambodia and bought thirty percent of its clothing exports last year but china is cambodia's largest financial backer in terms of investment aid and soft loans as we were hearing possibly. then if the e.u. for instance were to push for sanctions from brussels would there be any pushback given that trade from other european nations or what about the u.s. any appetite to impose sanctions against cambodia from from washington.
well the u.s. sanctions nowadays tend to go towards actions that are aimed at the leadership rather than the workers because what we have noticed in the last decade is that actually many out of credit leaders actually don't care about their workers they don't actually care about the people they don't care about the young so in other words if you are starting to enforce economic sanctions and actually revoking these trade preferences g.f.p. united states and what we call the be a everything but arms where actually cambodia can export anything duty free and quota free to europe and practically also to the united states except arms it is going to find you're going to find yourself in the situation revoking the the trade preferences for the workers and the people rather than actually the leadership and as i said in a situation where on our credit later doesn't actually care about its work or can't
sustain itself for many years this is what happened in sri lanka this is what i have been in. in myanmar and therefore i think the immediate effect of this sanction is going to be mostly about diplomacy and also in terms of cambodia standing in the international community and i think given that cambodia has already the oriented itself so close to china keeps coming constantly blocking regionally nation for dialogue for example on the border disputes on behalf of china and is already voting almost as a proxy state in the for example organization like as c.n. it will be very difficult to achieve that naming and shaming because it's in fact already there ok. you can see the. call to sanctions and if they are implemented it may merely push kemba a further into the arms of china. no we're talking
about target take sanctions as step number one yes mr hussein his cronies his families have assets outside of the united states money in china in the united states in australia in france but not in china they get they are not going to have it do they not getting the education in china they get their getting to indication in the united states a son of mr and send went to west point so that's the point the legitimacy of the west the education from the west they are going when they have sick they don't go to china they go to single book they come to france they go to australia they don't go to china except the highest level but their children go to go shopping in the united united states in australia it will affect them that's the first step ok now we're saying first step sync about it mr han said they still do this still time
for us to talk about national reconciliation among campbell jensen let's have a dialogue we're not going all the way but step by step it might get to that china even china cannot help because as. studies say show exports is to the west. not to china. is it economic so live or off. day it's in the west there i'm afraid we're going to have to leave it where we're out of time thank you to all of our guests on the program today. to go out and hustle. thank you for watching don't forget you can see the program at any time just by visiting the website out zero dot com for further discussion join us at our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter i handle at a.j.
inside story from me adrian figure the whole team here in town thanks for watching i'll see you again. in the united states rights activists are still being targeted they have enough information that you found out. what raising surveillance from both the police and the f.b.i. is and not law enforcement and. fault lines investigates the scope of these agencies tactics and the impact on civil society. confidential
surveilling black lives at this time on on. the streets is quiet the signal is given. out it's oh it's safe to walk to school last year there are more than thirty meters in this community in one month the police say this area is a red zone one of several in some townships in cape town children sometimes a court in the crossfire when rival gangs fight the parents and grandparents have started what they call a walking past to try to take them to gang violence i lost my family cooking well i'm doing years ago i also lost my but there are more than one hundred fifty volunteers working for several working buses teachers say it is working class it in it has improved the volunteers also at the security guards. captaining a leading used team at sixteen years old takes determination. to that staying on top of your game at school. the whole family bands together and shares the