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tv   Inside Story 2017 Ep 323  Al Jazeera  November 21, 2017 10:32am-11:01am +03

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has held talks with russia's leader vladimir putin in sochi the allies met in the black sea city on monday according to the kremlin mr putin told president assad the fight against armed groups in syria is close to ending he said once that's over finding a peaceful political settlement will be the key issue meanwhile the head of the largest saudi backed syrian opposition group has resigned after nearly two years riyadh he had led the hine against the asians committees insists ember twenty fifteen he's among a number of other officials who stepped down ahead of an opposition conference in saudi arabia and a new round of u.n. sponsored talks in geneva zimbabwe's parliament is set to launch impeachment proceedings against the president robert mugabe ignored an ultimatum from the ruling party to step down or be forced out the new p.f. accuses him of giving his wife too much power mr mugabe has begun talks with former vice president was a man and gaga whom you fired two weeks ago. donald trump has designated north
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korea a state sponsor of terrorism both japan and south korea have welcomed the move saying it will help the new killer arise the north part secretary of state rex tillerson says washington has not given up on resolving the nuclear crisis through diplomacy . all right up to date coming up next inside story. setting the stage for serious debate up front at this time zero. who's in charge of zimbabwe and the embattled president robert mugabe is clinging to power and faces impeachment everyone but him seems to agree his time is up so what's next for zimbabweans desperate for change this is inside story.
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hello there and welcome to the program i'm laura carlisle zimbabwe's president robert mugabe has ignored a deadline to resign his ruling zanu p.f. party had told him he must step down or be impeached now it says that process will begin the parties accusing mugabe of being responsible for political instability and an unprecedented economic tailspin and that frustration is spilling on to the streets with hundreds of students out protesting demanding mugabe get out of office a powerful war veterans association is also demanding mugabe step down and threatening high court action to have him removed. we want the war population to send up on our it in giving an unmistakable message that we want to see mugabe's back to the countries to start on
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a new bridge is the rule is the desires of us but the reality of the last fifteen years no country has been reduced to the level of debris decision which is what with going through with the only country which is going to war it is totally or believe just the damage which has been due to the missing because it is mobile who played with the we with indulging this. in the dirty way that's what has been his business in parliament nothing else the crisis started earlier this month when mugabe fired vice president emerson milan ghagra putting his wife grace in prime position to take over as president when god was dismissal was the last straw for the army chief who was his long time ally the military seized power wednesday surrounding government buildings and putting the gobby under house arrest that led to extraordinary scenes in harare on saturday hundreds of thousands of zimbabweans flooded the streets to celebrate the apparent end of his thirty seven year grip on power on sunday the rulings on m.p.'s dismissed mugabe as party leader
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and expelled his wife grace but on gagra was promoted to president of the party of mccarthy was told he must step down or be impeached embattled leader was widely expected to resign hours later during a live t.v. address instead he provoked anger and disbelief flanked by army generals who vowed to stay on until zanu p.f. party congress next month this congress if you. live a few weeks from now preside over its dresses which must not be pre-positioned by any acts calculated to undermine it or to compromise the outcome in the eyes of the public. well let's bring in our discussion panel now and joining us from harare bright matonga a former government spokesman and deputy information minister under president
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mugabe and from new york a professor of law and constitutional expert at cornell north school welcome both of you thank you very much for joining us here on inside story bright matonga you are a former spokesman for president robert mugabe can you give us some insight into what's going through his mind at this point in time he didn't resign in that speech on sunday took many people by surprise what happened. is a must of the art of politics. he wants to be in control of a lot of things but i suppose if you have to be how it has to be but the issue now is. in power for ninety three now next year when we have elections you'll be ninety four so you have if a few. by the time that term finishes you'll be ninety nine.
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that's what people are saying what is it that you want to prove is. this no one can . live. to be a president so. look it's not a question of what goes into his mind it is about. you want to control everything. in his mind because he's been so much in control before independence after independence that's more than forty something years so that was that is lifestyle so i think is to find it very difficult to comprehend beyond that but the people of zimbabwe look i think thank you mr mugabe you've done a lot of good things you've done a lot of bad things who doesn't so it's time to hand over the button so again nieces know i'll be there but bright who is supporting him i mean who is that
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telling him encouraging him to stay the course. right. right now it's very difficult to because we don't know who it is ouse. we don't know we advise him but i think he can stomach a loss is come on top all the time yes to fight all the time but i think now things are different people are so last night people expected more we expected him to do the right thing to say guys i've had you a video loud and clear i think and if you take a break and give someone. you know the opportunity to take zimbabwe forward you know we don't have a current of our own. public debt is forty percent of g.d.p. we don't you know we people are suffering in this again much poverty what this does is it kills families young girls are forced to go into procedures into to get
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money for their level would so things are getting bad after now who is going to come in to visit is about which is. a very unstable economy so people just hold back in these five more years of suffering and. we think you're taking us right and we want to prove to you that you can do all the kinds of the ransom and people tomorrow are coming back again in their millions. i think you better move out in the parliament. about ten or so senior party members has been working with the idea what is going to come in and a lot more to you before we go over to there in new york just one more because you're talking about the people having had enough and coming out onto the street but it wasn't the people who finally moved to remove mugabe it was the army the
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people have put up with a decade of economic stagnation and human rights abuses so why did the army choose now to move. look the me noticed that there was a vacuum the police was in. so is the services they were not working in the for the best interest of the country so they spoke to him they asked him to intervene he didn't listen to them they made a public announcement and when the chief of the army said that he also wanted to arrest him and fame unfortunately that couldn't happen. commander you know we respect you we've been with you in this trenches so high time you you have to listen to us there's no police force but the funny thing is now the interesting thing at the moment is you can't see any policemen along the streets in this sort of peaceful nor looting no crimes you know recorded and we were just
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happy if people saw united so i think the army said we custody and of of the security of this country it's better for you to do the right thing control your people if you can and then we have to tech the role of the police that's why the word vigilance today approached the high court to say they support the actions of the sort that they feel that give that has been left by the by the political and otherwise there's going to be. people who write listening and moving are now going to want to make a way that the army is going about removing mugabe that very keen to say this is not very keen not to have any bloodshed but is it constitutional what's happening in zimbabwe. i think that has read them or the other people rightly. smuggling people i mean the problem over mugabe has been
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there for quite some time and things were deteriorating and i think what you see the army trying to do is of course to try to use course constitutional ways rather than go into a straight forward corps and i think this is really in order to promote stability so that you know it is the christians that remain in place and i think what has happened is that for various reasons that to be the new moderated by many people is about where the no longer able to breathe under the regime now so i think that the to me what mcgovern could do now is to really do to save his to the country is for him to step down so that there can be a new beginning this is an opportunity to go forward and resolve the country's problems clearly move as a as yesterday's speech where he didn't step down there's not much hope that he is
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now going to end zanu p.f. is x. policy now is talking about impeachment proceedings beginning on tuesday just give us an idea of what needs to happen to get those proceedings underway i think the resignation that would have been the easiest way out. and this is provided for and to go into six of the constitution so he would have resigned and that would have been much much easier i think the impeachment process is the party that just is the next process that can go on the difficult way that is that there is a process to eat in that you have to look at got to cause them to six ninety seven to ninety nine and you find then that there would have fests to table motion before a joint sitting. senate and the assembly and then get. a
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majority of the members are supporting the. motion and after that deliver a couple into a committee that would have to look into the. impeachment. and that's specified grounds on which he has to be no you can impeach him and then you would have the committee of nine i think that's what he's provided for reporting. back. to the joint sitting and then you would need a two thirds. majority to remove him ok and i think there's also a complication and i'm just i'm just going to jump and say let's just listen i'm going to get some i am happy and pleased to be able to bring in also from harare an estimate saying gaze a political commentator and director of the zimbabwe media center and as we just talked this hearing from mena the process that needs to happen to get impeachment proceedings underway against robert mugabe on what grounds do you think mugabe
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could be impeached all of the usual. issues. being discussed with the design of the or so of course the what did the saying is that the mugabe should be peace because he he sat in the executive for thirty two years wife saying that yes roast a couple seated to make a decision india's instead have been kept. specially by why use wife and the other people around the years while. the sergeant was present and when on guard well let's take a look at him he's been named as the new policy leader he is known as the crocodile the in zimbabwe what do we know about him. he is you was sentenced to death when you are. old for carrying out good activities
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the only thing that spurred death was because he was under age from there or i mean he took part in the liberation struggle. then from one thousand nine hundred eighty seven he was prison assistant in a border guard sort of speak he's a lawyer he's been minutes of security has been minister of defense has been minister of justice he's been. head of parliament. and is now the. president so he's got a vast experience in terms of money meant fine in finance. law all those things so i think at the moment. people we're looking forward to. to him taking over. next presidency people are looking for all right you say to him thanking average that's the way it is that i know right but worries that he is just
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going to bring them more of the same that mugabe did. or sometimes bitter deal would been a tickle you know but i think for my job it was a bubble is not a question of whether it's emerson or whatever they just want to see a different president. you know that's what people are looking forward to i know you asked my other colleagues of impeachment what not a man doesn't understand the process is the order of men for example now you know that president was fired get into his mind this impeachment is the footing that caused ordinary men was the m.p.'s in voted to impeach people don't care about the process the process is all follow was you know you somewhere out this is the mood on this not my views but it's what i've picked up from from the streets they say ok we don't understand this legal jargon but what we know is that impeachment is you know you have to go where no is that is that true or might bright be doing the
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zimbabwean people is like the service they're saying they don't care about the processes and the intricacies of impeachment well i think that you know the process is you know would have to be followed if your driveway would be cool. and i think that's the issue at hand and i think also as you know the process of removing mugari begins they also have to remember that yourself i think you have to jointly start the process of removing the vice president because if you look at the constitution you find that when the president is removed the vice president will be acting so i think that you have to deal with both in terms of war and in the constitution is provided for that you can proceed against the president and you can also impeach the vice president. just picking up marina says that if you impeach the president you also have to impeach the vice president does that mean that we're
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not going to see what i'm guy coming up to the president. i think the people of zimbabwe right now. are so tired and they are blaming everything on the garbage that is in terms of the economy the tubes and they would want to see someone else that the that is the truth on the surface that when you go deep down the people. are saying no to a system that t. in both very system they are saying no to a system that he abuses human rights so that's what the people are looking to deep down so it is the end of the day we have a comes must to deal with the economy got to she must make sure that the economy is mend it must make sure that the people are able to work at least two or something must be like you or that people get. which is their workforce you look at how
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people read that in order that the cars in the bank so that's what people want there wouldn't mind the number of the person there wouldn't mind woo the person is coming from what they want is someone who can at least better their lives this was going on that situation of the people is but so what is wanted is someone who is coming with us that is a reform in terms of the economic front and the reform also in terms of the political front in terms of human rights so if that is what they want they can then forgive when god weighs alleged past his past ways lesley involved in a crackdown on opposition and independents he is where more than ten thousand people were killed they can forgive that can they if he can bring about the economic reforms that they want. yeah the people who are willing do do to forget that badly this is not to say that those issues may totally be buried just by the
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strong of change of a leader there will be a need for process is done he will use the nation because there are people as we speak you wouldn't have the wouldn't even know the relatives who don't know their five those who don't know their mother who don't live birth certificates so i think the kind of a truth commission would probably be needed if this is why civil society yes been talking of a nation now peace and reconciliation commission we bright matonga and just picking up there and what i said just before we lost contact with him he said that there needs to be a truth commission i was talking further down the line there are way immediately he said there needs to be reforms that need to be economic reforms in zimbabwe how quickly can they be put in place this is a process that has to be taken there's a lot of anger on the ground. is people can't afford the basic amenities electricity. you know. you know the basic things so
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it's very difficult so we have a it's going to be the next president has got a lot to do it's a process that will take some time and it's it has to be an inclusive process i don't think rushing to this is a might this my personal view i don't think rushing to have elections will solve things no definitely not we need a healing process that needs to be done doesn't the way but i'll just jump in there and then if you're talking about a healing process does this open the way for a unity government for the opposition to to come back in to sit in parliament you know we need if there has to be a government i think it is prudent to involve everybody because the whole thing has been a mess. unfortunately at the moment there was very strong which will leave room for them to be of to win again elections only. skill but i don't know who after
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this or whether that is going to happen but he or she was going to take over they have to include everybody they have to you know zimbabwe is becoming like north korea you know no one wants to come to suburban. so very bad tag you need investment you need if you invest in zimbabwe or in a country you want to be sure that you know the return on investment you can be put at your dividends is about was not clear because there is. no money. for exert you want you can get it but for some reason if you go in the streets you can find your u s dollars and that's not the way to run an economy is only the few privileged who are accessing. the foreign currency sold invest in such an environment where you know you the people don't trust you and we don't trust you. don't trust you your neighbors don't trust you anymore. so catch twenty
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two asian twenty two situation either big miss put it that way when we do you mean that you are in a big headline bob who is in a big mess and there is an opening now first sense of optimism that things can be put right and yes i would agree that. i would agree that you know the question is in by ways very difficult words about ones and and i think that this is really a big lesson in terms of african states that you cannot have a monarchy style kind of government that you cannot you have to have or your. emphasis on. this would not have happened if in fact mugabe did not stay in power for these years and also agree that going forward of course it would be necessary to look at the past in terms of trying to deal with the. already issues that.
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zimbabwe down whether your is a member of for truth commission or you know does something else or prosecutions that is up to this zimbabweans to decide but they have to deal with the past and then after that i think they have to focus on creating institutions that are going to ensure that in fact human rights are respected and that that is participation by or in governance and that's when of course you begin to or. to come up with a the correct police is that the my my colleagues are missing and that are necessary to grow your. economy and it's just got a minute left last word to you mugabe is still commands a level of respect in zimbabwe doesn't his father of the nation do you think it's legacy is going to be more hero or villain although i think it ws done a lot for this country we cannot do wish you my way just like that you contributed a lot to live but as you know this country you did some work i think it's enough to
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independence you know the source accord on the guy gender in terms of education and you know the building of the clinics the building of schools and if you look at the zimbabwe to do obviously we are now losing out but we had a very good lift out of that and the mugabe did something. with the nation but to some while i've been good to the turn of the ninety's there were problems these problems and moved on to kind of dent you guys so you did something in the deserves to be recognized as the founding side that one of the founding fathers was about despite his mistakes so what is important to draw when we're looking at that. is that he should be symbolised down bore down aggressively so that people will not be in a flipped said ok we're going to have to leave it as we're going to have
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a delay jump in that we're going to be on topic we will be revisiting that interesting times indeed for zimbabwe thank you very much all of you for joining us bright matonga. and ernest. and thank you to very much for watching you can see the program again any time by missing our website is al-jazeera dot com and a further discussion to go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com for slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter or handlers at a.j. inside story from me norah kyle and the whole team here by. captaining a leading used team at sixteen years old takes determination. to that staying on top of your game at school. the whole family bands together and shares the
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sacrifices necessary for a son to have a shot at becoming a professional footballer. my tunisia home game at this time on a jersey and the new era in television news. it doesn't say that it's a toss to do things in secret that are all we had actual victims who had survived torture detention and saying this was the calls on my arrest if you would. just stay with us till i got this conviction that everyone has a deep reservoir of talent going to help you can give them the opportunity and wonderful things start to. look at the actual distance there's at least twenty thousand or hinder refugees who live here we badly need at this moment leadership and the president turns to look back as was i guess donald trump is going to be the next president me tell you the other guy. that she finally canisters of gas are
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said to believe it best to prevent the media getting anywhere there's good record that. he achieved something that never happened before. jews iraq where ever you. zimbabwe's ruling party prepares to impeach robert mugabe is the man.

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