tv Inside Story 2017 Ep 327 Al Jazeera November 25, 2017 2:32pm-3:00pm +03
in syria the trump administration began supplying weapons to the y.p. g. earlier this year before the battle to retake isis stronghold of rock up turkey considers the wipe e.g. a terrorist group. although i'm still on the one subject that negatively impacts our relationship with the us is the weapons that it's given to the y. p.g. lately we've seen that some armored vehicles have been supplied and our esteemed president once again reiterated his discomfort to mr trump mr trump clearly stated that he had given clear instructions that the white b.g. would be given arms and that this nonsense should have ended a long time ago of course we were very happy with this. for eight planes have arrived in yemen's capital sana'a one carrying vaccines to help fight the area the other three were bringing humanitarian workers yemen is ensuring the world's worst cholera epidemic and now doctors are warning of an outbreak of the potentially fatal diptheria virus zimbabwe's former finance minister is in court accused of
corruption just a day after a new president was sworn in the nation's chambre was detained by the military jet in the takeover that forced president robert mugabe from office the high court has also ruled the military's actions during that takeover were legal as of the headlines and news continues but first its inside story. sealing the deal bangladesh in man maher region agreement for the padre shin of hundreds of thousands of muslim rohingya will it finally solve a decades long problem after a campaign of ethnic cleansing what's left for people to return to this is inside
story. hello and welcome to the show i'm sam is a done for nearly three months now hundreds of thousands of muslims have been fleeing me and mark their escaping a military crackdown in iraq and state the u.n. calls ethnic cleansing more than six hundred thousand have been living in makeshift camps in neighboring bangladesh now the governments of the two countries signed a deal to send the refugees back to me and maher it's a decision human rights groups are calling unthinkable they say refugees should not be sent back if their safety can't be guaranteed there have been extensive reports of abuse rape torture and killings in rakhine state the military says it's
combating rangar fighters where the operation has been condemned around the world the government of aung san suu kyi strongly denies the accusations of abuse of the agreement is expected to begin two months from now in late january it's based on an earlier accord between the two countries which allows refugees to return home after proving their residency in me and maher officials say three hundred potential refugees will be processed daily that rate the verification process could take up to twenty years to repatriate all the refugees. and pope francis is expected to arrive in may and mar on monday he'll likely address the ring of crisis when he meets the leader aung san suu kyi and the head of the army international pressure has been building on me and mar u.s. secretary of state rex tillerson who recently met on sound sujit said the atrocities being committed by the military amounted to ethnic cleansing the united nations and human rights groups have used similar language. they will have to take
it seriously this is the most powerful country. saying yes and these are strong words well there was even a feeling artemus it innocently left that well he's been fobbed all you know while he was going home and he's been charmed by believing in all that but he came back strong. something of a surprise. let's bring our guests into the show we have in barcelona president of the burmese rango organization u.k. in oxford ben phillips humanitarian officer for oxfam and joining us via skype from penang in the later gwen robinson chief editor of nikkei asia review welcome to the show if i can start with turn so does this deal between me and man bangladesh solve the ringer problem. i don't think so at all you know this is just. i think from the side they are trying to assure international community to that where
the economy genocide against running that they want to erase international pressure so they saying turn the bow now we're finally willing to take. to me and mark yes but i think it's very premature you know how can these people can return back to they are native land where. the houses are down and many of us are fleeing as far as what i receive some videos i received last twelve hours ago rakhine mob rule in the house in booted out cooperation of the army's military and the military and it is not allowed already not allowed many places it's still so people are still dying how can these people can come back where they live as an open prison where they have no rights and you know this is a place where the government can relate to impossible situation where u.n. and u.n.
. united estate mentioned happened. at the new clues in. how these people can come back this is right question here you know ok let's bring a ben into the discussion and turn is raising some questions that have been raised by humanitarian organizations are come to that in the minute if i may ben but if we could take a step back and ask this question is it clear in what capacity may in mar will accept the return of the ring is far as i know they haven't said that they recognize them now as citizens what are they coming back as is that all clear from this deal i think what we seen is the challenges that. many people that i spoke to when i was in the camps in bangladesh many of them did not want to go back to the or do as they had gone through the violence of the witness or the violence that was against them themselves so it's very important and it's all process to which people returned to me amar they are given the choice and do so voluntarily because as i
said when i spoke to people in the camps they were very clear that they were very afraid overturn it. from what we understood from reading the statements for example of the secretary of labor of me and mine he's quoted as saying they've been sending registration forms to bangladesh i take it from that that there is some kind of process of the routing the refugees will be required to prove that they came for me and mark basically yes but as has been pointed out we have absolutely no clear idea of what has exactly been a great you know we were just garden and the news is everywhere today that the foreign ministers of myanmar and bangladesh signed an agreement we have no idea what the substance of that agreement is it's not clear what the level of proof required will be i mean it has the stated and it's being repeated quite
a few times by myanmar government official that they will be required to prove identity on the other hand there's also been mixed signals about you know toss a ball so a relaxation of earlier conditions on previous return agreement so there is an acknowledgement that a lot of these people have fled with absolutely nothing i mean maybe the clothes they're wearing so there is some acknowledgement that this is going to be a very tough thing to do but building are going back to ben's point i would say there is a lot of fear in those camps in our in the bangladesh border region but also i think many many refugees have said aid workers when interviewed that they would go back with some sort of guarantee that they could go back to their lives they had before in other words their land and this is been made very clear that you know that is not an option from the myanmar government's point of view so i think there's many issues and. as the first big are made clear as well there
are still people leaving so it does seem rather hazy. the pressure is mounting. and so i guess the whole thing is being rushed through and it leaves us with very little knowledge of the details turn is there any process you're aware of as part of this deal to ensure the safety of people who do return to me and mar are as far as you know of of what we know is it's nothing clear as to you know we have not seen any details of this agreement so i am. we all are quite worried what will happen what we'll do next two days to a few days because you know the thing is this is this is a kind of their families government to. to take away the attention from international community today but the at attention that is what we have to look
here you know where us all more so do people want to forgive us for interrupting a vendor said a moment ago from perhaps his contacts with people in camps in bangladesh it doesn't seem like people want to go back is that the sentiment you get when you talk to members of your organization do ringers want to return to me in mar you know when i was in milan they told me. of because their lives are at risk that's why they fled from the country the weary horrific situation and their brutality what military did that is they're facing trauma in their camps you know so the other thing is that problem with military just tried everything you know the whole the carbs and they're taken away or whatever they have so the thing is our fasting whether they will provide safety and security secondly whether they will recognize
as a citizen the robbing of people largely whether they can go back. the origin of place and on top of that where that their rights what i have to get out right this is a question here because they told me if we have we we can get back our rights of course we want to go back to our place where we believe where we belong to but the thing is it's quite hard to see from the site where the are green and they are denying all the at cross city's crime against rohingya that what i can see all right let me take the question the point then i should say to go in the the statement there was to made the people want to return back to their places now the reports that we've all been hearing of things like homes have been burned down villages have been razed i mean do people even have homes to return to well as i
mentioned and also said in fact you know they destroyed but i think the more important point is the military leaders have said and also government officials have implied that these lands are no longer it's not an option for any refugee to return to where they were living there has been rezoning taking place i've done quite a few interviews in months recent. us with officials who have confirmed that those lands that really lived on and are being redistributed a new net of northern rakhine is drawn up and already government officials have made clear that there will be a kind of calling of model villages i'd like to see what kind of model but i think you know really they're kind of in cats and they will be in areas that are nothing like what i think these people are. where they were living before they they
fled so i think that is a real problem and the other problem on this issue of fear and that this overwhelming fear that people feel about any prospect of going back where they suffered such trauma and nearly all of them have suffered some kind of trauma is that this is not a longer a military operation there are still people living you can see full of military operations taking place there now it is bija landis' or even individuals you know extremist buddhists groups of youths we've seen at b.b.c. did some excellent reporting and actually caught on video you burning villages these are not people in uniform therefore i think that is an extra concern that i think is even beyond the government's you know capacity to guarantee because these are individual citizens civilian to your first point about rezoning and
reassignment of land ben when you work with people in refugee camps i'm wondering how aware they are of what's been happening back home to their lands and properties will this reassignment of land and rezoning in iraq kind state is anyone communicating that to them do they have any clue anyone explain to them what they might be returning to and i think it's very clear from when i was speaking to people in bangor both that maybe some of their family members were. gone gone first fleeing to bangladesh and therefore later on some of our relatives or family members would return arrive in in bangladesh as well and so inform inform the families of the situation so there is an awareness of how it is and that's why i got what i want i mean ben is anybody if there is a process now to return people are only officials explaining to some of the ringers in refugee camps in bangladesh what they might be returning to then they may know that you know there's been
a bit of rezoning going on record status anyone told them if they sign up and say yes or go home what where is home now that they're going back to an official is what would be need to be done because i don't think it's happened in the moment and is therefore important that actors like the un you know see are are involved in the process so there is a clear understanding about what people will get when they return will they have freedom of movement in myanmar will they have opportunities for for jobs and will they actually be able to go back to their homes because it's very critical that people return that they feel safe and they also do so with dignity and choice and not forced to return to to their country on the other hand there's a there's a voice that says is this is serious still at all there have been all the deals over the last few decades to return the refugees they haven't been implemented this one even by the current schedule three hundred a day could take up to twenty years to implement in fact when i when we interviewed
the minister in charge. of the recount reaction process in fact he actually said one hundred to one hundred fifty a day which as you say take about twenty years even if you were i mean really realistically no one i think thinks that eight hundred thousand or actually the actual figure. refugees now residing in bangladesh is actually over a million if you take in the previous waves and the attacks. about one hundred thousand who fled after their last october attacks so we're looking at a lot of people so this is just a p.r. stunt. well p.r. stunt is one is one friend is a refused by some of the more cynical critics i think are really actually it's more a kneejerk response to intense international pressure absolutely intense fear of the piano government side of sanctions and that wrenching up of the of the pressure in the last couple of days with the u.s.
secretary of state rex tillerson coming out actually reversing an earlier position where he refused to call it ethnic cleansing he made it very clear that. the position has toughened considerably so i think there is real fear in ninety dollars that they really have to be seen to be doing something so what was driving these trucks the real motivation i think was to really look and appear as though there was an agreement in place so that the card has become has been put before the horse in this case and it does depend what the details are that you send three leaders agreements hadn't being fully implemented you're right they have been half baked implementations but in fact quite a lot have come back there were about two hundred thousand or more move back in one of the earlier waves so that did take place and of course you saw you saying what happened there was this during resentments which will go all the over again so it
really does look like a bit of a hopeless situation but that doesn't mean that both sides can't try they must try again for obvious reasons and on that point to what is the alternative if we play devil's advocate though if they're not even if conditions aren't perfect to miramar are they to sit in refugee camps indefinitely in bangladesh where conditions are not perfect there either are they. yeah i think we need to look at here the point is you know returning refugees is not the solution we need to look at the solution these people belongs to berber rohingya us our indigenous people of burma they must get their rights environment so to get their rights we need international action here you know you and united the state mission already what seventy two ring as it ethnic cleansing so we must put a stronger pressure to our bangladesh and also burma together
you know that particularly to burma what is the point is the must give their own citizenship first and provide safety and security and you know the thing is we have to look at one nine hundred seventy eight one thousand nine hundred ninety two you know these people came back not as a citizen of burma so this is as sokoloff as the us but we don't so we cannot repeat again so the thing is we international community have to call another u.n. security council meeting and you know we need our. security our security and safety need it so un peacekeeping force or other mechanism need to provide for rolling up people in our current state for the safety and also or save those should be created and the u.n. should should be observers there and same time you know we must call this
true brummies military criminal me online to i.c.c. that is also important because it's repeated again and again we can't go on mole you know international community is not doing and not at all and so the thing is that's why the burmese government can go you know just to ease the pressure this is a kind of and will you sign that will not be have been anything as far as what i can see from the situation rakhine state what i can see there is who who does. to all who have told me well i was involved you know the thing is is that kind of dept law situation they try to do but it will not be happen practically so this is not about a return of refugees a solution a solution is a particle a broader political solution or to leave frank yeah well i currently stateless ok i get that point now i wonder ben from your perspective as in you know you work for an aid agency and obviously you're not here to say this deal is good or bad but i wonder if this deal doesn't include some kind of political settlement that finally
gives these people citizenship from your perspective as an aid agency would you be thinking that this is the end of the problem time to disband the camps or will you be saying let's keep those camps open this could be just another cycle i mean as you've already mentioned even if a person does happen people will be in bangladesh for quite some time you know the average refugee camp globally now ranges between ten and twenty years so you would have to imagine that people are going to be there for quite some time and whoever does go back as already mentioned is in point of the they have their rights you know they have the rights to be able to work in a home and and also have freedom of movement so it's very important. not only to people who have access to all the services but also should return organizations and every day agencies are able to work in over a kind and be able to help people who are in these areas. when we're talking about a lot of practical and rightly so practical needs but i wonder whether the issue
of rhetoric is being addressed i mean among ultimo who is a prominent figure in the nationalist circle which promotes a sort of anti muslim rhetoric was quoted only today as saying quote our ideas have won over the vast majority of the population and quote can there really be a solution countering those ever hope to live in peace in miramar before that sort of buddhist radical rhetoric is addressed seriously by the government says this is no longer on well you're absolutely right no i think that question is about similar you know it's like asking can there be a lasting peace in the middle east i mean many people believe it's an insoluble issue and certainly a lot of people will i mean there's a lot of voices on both sides criticising what's going on in myanmar obviously but actually very few have come up with any workable solution so you know the reason is
because it does say fairly intractable it's happened as as we've pointed out time and time again and i don't think the world still really realizes how deep seizure the. aversion even hatred amounts to a lot of the population boney's towards population in myanmar is towards the really eager and is just something that i think it's a certain kind of almost brainwashing played a lot of brought up i mean i'm shocked that you know very reasonable rational intelligent ernie's can you know can harbor these kind of very very strong feelings so you know if you look at it like there it looks a bit hopeless i'm just hoping that there's enough incentive for myanmar to actually make something work as there has. in the past there were these attempts and half successful efforts before and in that in that respect i'd say that you
know threats and pressure from the international community sanctions whatever. you know are actually resulting in some action let's just say that i think it's very important to point out that the reason for this extraordinary response by the military there the harsh beyond belief it was triggered by a text by reading of militants which took place from last october and again you know it was and that threat although you know it it seems to have gone quiet could come back at any point and that's a big fear i think inside the n r a month people that there could be another terrorist incident even you know bombs carried out by a small number of people because frankly it looks like a lot of the militants have been killed or you know just appeared it's very difficult very large bands to move now inside that region but i think there's
a very big risk that something else could happen and again trigger another ferocious notary response a big risk that something else could have nothing as one point that most of us if not all of us can agree on until this one is resolved we'll have to end the show there though let's thank our guests turn kin when robinson and ben phillips and thank you to fortune you can see the show again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com for further discussion head over to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle there is at a.j. inside story from meantime is a van and the whole team here for now thanks for joining us.
that's what we're talking about to shoot people who are not enough pressure to run themselves and their other countries have managed to solve this problem but you worry that this conflict could erupt into a power right open war into the cities general securities where the people who pay the price creating their writeup in prejudice setting the stage for a serious debate up front at this time on al-jazeera.
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