tv Inside Story 2018 Ep 213 Al Jazeera August 1, 2018 8:32pm-9:00pm +03
spread that much beyond but it remains to be seen once dissolve announced tomorrow what will happen in harare and beyond. nationwide problem isn't a p.f. of course always saying that they had a stronghold a supporter of people in rural areas that is itself disputed we will discuss that in more detail in half an hour or so for the moment dr chatham house thank you thank you and as you've been hearing we have just been bringing you the latest from zimbabwe will bring you more on all developments and still of course waiting for those results for the presidential elections to come so do stay with us here on al-jazeera coming up next inside story i'll see it half an hour by. i've.
tested against a long running problem of. puce so what can be done to stop violence against women not just in africa but around the world this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program today with me thousands of women have marched across south africa against gender based violence the demonstrations were organized by a campaign called total shut down south africa has one of the highest rates of violence against women last year alone around seventy thousand women both victims of sexual assault now protest as a calling on the government to take action across generational action if young men
are to understand how to behave before we bring in our guests malcolm webb sets up our discussion today from johannesburg. yolanda kyunki had just started a degree at rhodes university in south africa but she says she was raped she went for a drink with friends she doesn't remember anything else the following day other people told her that two different men had sex with her it's just really made me angry. really angry and through kin i mean it has affected my relationships with him in their eyes. obviously the encounter after that i had my trust in people in general . and i guess i just was a become a prison's really and it's a state. you landers met many other students who were tired of their universities and police not acting on reports of sexual assault. on the exchange students marched in broad university in twenty sixteen as part of their campaign they
published a list of students and university staff on social media they said were responsible for sexual assault students have also protested here the university has run in johannesburg and since the student movement began thousands more south africans have taken to social media to express their anger at the lack of justice for women who have been raped or killed when carol mcqueen i was found murdered in johannesburg last year it prompted hundreds of thousands of tweets activists say the pressure pushed all four of these to act her boyfriend was found guilty of the murder earlier this year ten james one a study the movement she says the social media activism and the naming of suspected rapists may not always bring justice but it breaks the silence because of the of help quickly hashtags pick up your able to call out your repurposed and there's a bunch of people who say i believe you this is your first interaction been going to the police and saying this is happened to me and the police saying well what we
were where were you what time was it south africa's some of the highest rates of sexual violence in the world activists say less than one in ten. reported rapes result in conviction we asked the state prosecutor what she thinks about frustrated victims receiving justice on social media instead consider the danger there are a few dishes. i think that were extremely well where the burden of proof is under clinton or at least as a prosecutor i know i can sleep soundly at night because i know if i had convinced the court that someone is guilty that person really guilty he landed says a rapists have never been held to account this is the authorities failed her no justice has been done malcolm webb al-jazeera johannesburg. ok there we are here we go let's bring in our guests joining us today in pretoria
lerato more toying and activist has just joined the shutdown movement in new york will be joined by a person she is the u.n. women's director of policy and from nairobi we have say for corey program manager for sites a place in n.g.o.s educating and engaging youth on how politics affects society welcome to you all coming to you first how far away is south africa from complete and total gender equality. wow. that's a hard question to answer. i don't know it could be anything from being is two hundred years it really just depends on the entire society coming together and deciding that it's had enough of gender based violence i don't think we're working on timelines i think we're just working on at this point conscience sizing people around gender based violence and getting to a point where is saying that patriarchy is killing women daily and we just wanted to stop i can't give you
a timeline because people have been fighting the three years in a sense if this is caused by a certain going on for decades if not more in the country understood put in a sense if this is caused by a certain intersectional aspect of different parts coming together warsaw they are . well if i may just add to what your last interview he said there that states all states have made a commitment to end all violence by twenty thirty so when you ask how far away is the country from achieving true equality one indicator of that is ending violence and that they have promised to do by twenty thirty so there's an imperative now to speed up everything that's being done intersectionality is the ways in which different aspects of inequality come together to shape particular people's experiences whether that's race and gender or that's disability and gender sexual orientation and gender and that complicates how people understand and experience different expressions of inequality so it makes it harder to talk about all women
in the same way it means we have to pay attention to the different ways in which racism and sexism cooperate and intersect with each other to make any closer to real for different people and i think we haven't done enough to recognize those inequalities whether it's women in rural areas where we disability surely to have that reflected in our approaches with a job of work to do all of us and ship. be in what ways is masculinity or the expression of masculinity a key toxic components in this. i mean the whole idea of my skin than it in itself needs to be and packed and it should be put in its right place where it belongs which is in the peach. because when we kind of then have conversations about how masculinity and meant to live in like they have the ability or they are allowed to express suddenly motions will set in feelings and not at there is terribly terribly wrong in society because if i'm looking at our society now men
are not express anger anger which fuels violence violence which has been meant to women and women's bodies for eternity is problematic in so many ways so even just starting conversations like what there actually is doing with women in south africa basically is that is a great start in just understanding that masculinity is not about a man being allowed to get away with violence and it's not just physical most of the time it's emotional and to a point where now man gets to put their hands on a woman it's just going overboard and the fact that we're not even allowed to talk about these things will happen he and in the way that they should be talked about as being violent and being a crank is terrible and set in the african culture as well plays a big dynamic in this and then the fact that there's no knowledge and no safe place is a safe spaces for women to express all this on this all is criminal activity is is terrible because the bodies of women have become a political playground of what is that women have become
a playground for people to just do what they can do and walk away with it if it's hot they can dream that we talk about violence against women today as if it's something that we don't know exists and it is something that we cannot fix what's selves and it's paralyzing it's i'm not there also your new nodding there as she thought corey is taking us through how to recognize the discrepancies and she's talking about african culture where you are in south africa does that african culture exist in a sense above the law of the land i would assume. in south africa equality is enshrined in the last surely. i think we also have to take into context into consideration that violence is embedded in south africa's history right violence comes from we have a long history of violence in this country and to talk about african culture as if this doesn't happen within a context where this country with. this country was while
most black people in this country where exposed to white violence and how that into things with masculinity particularly hyper masculinity with poverty and all those things so i don't know how to talk about african culture as if african culture exists on its own it exists within a system that exists within patriarchy and even though we do have all these laws that a supposed to ensure equality this is not happening on the streets people need to be taught that you're not allowed to grab a woman while she's walking on the street you're not allowed to force a woman to have six which is called rape because you feel entitled to have id. you were not in there as well tennyson in new york a recent u.n. report talked about this issue is is generated in a cocktail of it being systemic institutional and structural those are big heavy
issues to address which is the easiest issue for your organization to unpack and deal with. i think it would be a little. not terribly helpful for us to pick out a simple issue because there isn't one the very set of issues that your previous speakers have mentioned you know from economic arrangements to political arrangements to failure to implement laws they're all interwoven they support each other through the structural arrangement that pertains everywhere and has particular manifestations depending on history now speaks of talked about colonialism in south africa and of course the laws that most countries of inherited article in unison our laws of those those countries that work on your rulers and there are over one hundred fifty countries in the world which still have discriminatory laws on the books many of those and heritage laws it's up to those states now to get rid of them but we also need to have women able to have a role in making decisions that impact upon their lives whether that's in politics
whether that's an economic life or whether that's in simple straightforward things at home what should be straightforward what they eat when they eat whether they go out when they go out whether on who they have children with etc and these are all interwoven is absolutely important that those laws are there you mentioned the wonderful south african constitution it's imperative that those laws are there because that gives a signal from the state as to what's acceptable and what's not but the task goes beyond that in terms of implementing and it goes beyond laws and implementation because you can pass a law for example that men should take but can take paternity leave from work but if the social acceptance for men being active and engaged fathers isn't there then men are going to take that lead so you have to embed those those legal and political and economic measures in the bigger agenda of cultural change and you're only speakers mentioning masculinity and how that shapes and is allowed to run
pretty much riots on on the bodies of women is is a much bigger more complicated project and if we don't understand the linkages between those different era. we're not actually going to deliver the quality we've all been promised and women have a right to expect she thought what's the reaction you get when n.g.o.s such as yours goes to employers politicians prime ministers big business when you say look we have a massive issue here south africa was known at one point as the rape capital of the world so when n.g.o.s goes to the relevant government or the employment ministry and you say we've got a problem here what's the kind of reaction you get to that. i mean it was a moment this understanding that you come into these spaces as a female that's myself and then you're coming to this space talking about power because peter he's about power and it is that our power that has been distorted to one gender. the other gender so you can imagine if i walk in which i always do walk into these spaces i'm talking about this issues and say hey we need to discuss how
the power dynamic that is leading to let's find the mill gender about the female gender is really in so many problems develop it comes to products when it comes to resources when it comes to equalization because now there is a myth around it occasionally being a little lazy but it is not feminism is the only two ph yaquis because bitchy actually humanizes both men and women and it's just that we don't allow men to talk about it and they're not allowed to talk about it and they feel like if they talk about them be beneficiaries of the p. track or system then it kind of makes them this enemy yes it is the east because when you talk about happy jackie distributes resources and have even opens up opportunities and knocks out women just because you're a woman i'm a qualified woman and up what in political space and social space in educating people about consciousness democratic rights institutionalizing feminism but then you will find that people are always against that kind of conversation because
instills the power and it gives the park back to the people who are always had it all who deserve it more because of the what they've been doing and the been sadly. because now you realize that more women have been put behind the scenes so it doesn't matter how qualified you are when you get to these positions they are discussing issues with government with yours with dourness there's a question of where does the power and that is very problematic because it ends up being the pre-check or conversation that was under the cup it and it's the conversation that risks my life because when i talk about these things i am automatically the enemy because i'm the one who's trying to bring back the power yet we can all exist is enough true for all of us to be powerful and for all of us to grow and for all of us to feel safe but it doesn't happen and being in political space as well it has exposed me to a lot of attack a lot of me such an estate compliments a lot of bubble you know a lot of fumbles which are online and offline as well where people just feel like you're taking too much yet there is enough for all of us so it's
a huge conversation and it requires meant to be allies so that they can also understand that that benefited from a system that has do you molest them as well because richie ikea laus meant to believe that their only contribution to add anything building institutions building homes during families building relationships is about who can provide but then if that is now more happening or if that is now being malice then what else do they have and then you find like men like this tend to violence because now they don't know what else to do in order to quit and what control the women in that lead which is terrible there's a whole conversation around this that i love that that has really ignited and that is the fact that very many people need to discuss how the benefit from peachy eki especially the men and how women have constantly been say we cannot breed we cannot hear ourselves we need to grieve we need a space for us to feel safe because we can't live in a world where all of your plans and telling women go out and be safe with been safe
we've been doing everything to be ok but when we have numbers like sixty three women debt in thirty days seriously this is so much to be done. the rights of you want the south african government to adopt a national action plan at the center of that are you also implicitly telling men in south africa how they have failed women what we're expecting what we want them to do is hold themselves accountable we want men to be accountable for their violence you want men to acknowledge that they are violent or you want men to acknowledge that they've been violent we're not just asking the government to adopt this plan we're asking men across a five here across the continent across the country to be the kind of people want to be the kind of people that make it safe for women to breathe. we're asking individuals you're asking organizations we're asking everyone involved in fighting
to stop gender based violence. how do you make sure that some women are not left behind with this because it occurs to me if you've got a vibrant go ahead city like say johannesburg you can get to those women who are high achievers you can get to the start up tech women that are making inroads into a male dominated industry but if you go north into some of those rural areas those women literally cannot get out of the household because they are kept under the thumb and they are we're told regularly abused. yes and it ph i think that the challenge of ensuring that all women are touched and made freer and and live more joyous lives through the work we're all doing is a is a live challenge and what we have yet to meet probably earlier this year there was a global meeting held in new york on possibilities for the challenges faced by women in rural areas and it's very clear and very unambiguous messages from the
women from rural areas who are part of those conversations saying you have left us behind you have not heard our voices and you really need to change what you do so i think the onus is on us i can to change how we operate to make sure that we don't rely on only say as social media as a form of communication that we do have on the ground community work in all areas of the country let me at this point pay tribute absolute tribute to women across the world today is the largest south africa and the month of women's rights activities coming up but women across the world who have put this issue on the agenda who have come together in amazing global solidarity to say no more to say me too to say time is up they are saying all of them that all of us are involved in the struggle all of us have been. denied our rights and dignity and our ability to have control over our land love lives and we have a great deal more to do to honor the calls that they have made and i say we not
just as women across the world and as activists but also we inside the u.n. have a job of work to do to ensure that this work for equality reaches inside our own organization. if i may just say the issue isn't just and as has been mentioned before of men who have been left without resources or employment that's absolutely true that men who have been alienated in that way have particular issues in front of them that they have to deal with but it's also a question of men in positions of power of authority who are wealthy. the who have all sorts of privileges who also benefit from this culture that says men are entitled they have an assumed in title meant to treat women as they please to be sexually entitle to the bodies of women however they please without consequence and without accountability and those are issues that really really must rise to the top of our agenda and yes a national action plan everywhere would be absolutely crucial because it says from
a government we take this issue seriously we are making concrete activities actions to address them and what's needed in the plan that has value is a budget attached to it so that women's groups know they have predictable unnerve of funding and that government departments get the money if they are working effectively to promote the rights of women and women's organizations the key in making that assessment and there was also ensure there's ongoing political will to prioritise this issue to put into place practical actions and i'm going to interrupt you there which i apologise if you want to go to show for a lot so one more time before the clock beats us schieffer do you also have to talk to as well as those middle aged high achieving men across the continent you have to talk to those ordinary young men in their twenty's because they have to realise where they've gone wrong can i suggest to you and they have to when they have a baby boy they have to bring that baby boy up in a culture in
a household where there are distinct lines in the sand when it comes to how you treat your mother your sister the girl in the playground because that in coal kate's the right kind of behavior for when that baby boy is getting married. yeah absolutely absolutely i mean it's a collective conversation led to chris everybody and to request every everybody to be involved beyond social strata because at the end of the day you will find that are abilities that are created in the structure ideal and the ways and one abilities like properties of the winner ability because you find a quote women want to be by only a point to be physically or domestically abused than women who have privileges like many and access to spaces where they can actually trent take action but end at the end of the day we all need everybody on board to start having this conversation that it is conversations about how only the boys and how we resolve occurrence and it's a conversation about what we think is a gender or what is not a gender role it is
a conversation about the principles and the models that could be still upon women and that we don't be still this impinge upon men it is a conversation about how we felt were meant to be a little bit less aggressive a little bit less ambitious because there's not enough room for them to be ambitious well or that will so involved it's a conversation about even the games we are girls to play but again if we allow our boys to play because we are now boys of no we toys that are creative and innovative but then we teach girls just play around who control them painting and looking pretty it's a collective conversation and must be holistic and it must be candid and honest and last time i'm going to interrupt you while she fixed point to liberate so much going in pretoria eraser have you come across any examples of best practice where a company a government department is totally aware of this and is pushing the country in the right direction no. not it. what i have
found is that increasingly feminist movements have been demanding based practices just not just from men on the ground but from the states as well especially with regards to how the interest gender based violence and reports of gender based violence because gender based violence is not just at the point where the violence happens but there's also an entire system that frustrates women who want to go to the states or want to go to the produce station to reports rape or all these kinds of other gender based violence and they're frustrated by a system from the police station all with all the way to the courts half the thai women shop the cases they don't even go to the police station to reports the fact that they've been abused or the fact that they've been raped because they know that they'll get to the police station and find a man who is going to blame them for being raped and being abused in us then why what are you worried though it's an it's highest system that is at fault it's an entire system that is supporting patriarchy it's an entire system that's making it difficult for women to even come out and say this is what i'm going through though
there hasn't been a best practice we have to work on based practices which i think should not just be at a state level but at a societal level at most understood ladies thank you ladies thank you so much for your company thanks to all our guests toying and shifa corey and thank you to you see if your company can see the program again on the web site al-jazeera got comments of the discussion facebook at facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also toast on twitter at a.j. inside story or tweet me at the top don't be one for me pieces all week and the team here i'm just here in doha thanks for watching season.
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this is al jazeera. alone barbara sarah this is the news hour live from london thank you for joining us coming up in the next sixty minutes. live fire on the streets of zimbabwe's capital harare as the army is the ploy to break up opposition protests over monday's and lection results opposition leader john p.s. benbow receives a hero's welcome when his return home to the democratic republic of congo the three d. technology making a possible to praying to guns and.