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tv   The Stream 2018 Ep 161  Al Jazeera  October 9, 2018 7:32am-8:01am +03

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nationalist who wants to break up bosnia and herzegovina has won a seat in the presidency after sunday's elections the office of the presidency must contain one serb one wozniak and one pro at. that kavanagh has been sworn in as a new justice of the us supreme court and follows a bitter nomination process and accusations of sexual assault prompted an f.b.i. investigation and women's rights protest against the appointment. the nobel prize for economics has been awarded to two americans for their work on economic forecasts william norris will study the impact of climate change and economic modeling and paul romer looked at how governments can spur growth by investing in research of element and people's skills as though the headlines keep it here much more to come the story is next. in the lead up to the u.s. midterm election we'll be talking to the american people looking at key issues for voters from immigration to economic struggles to health care system races women's
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rights joined us through october for special coverage and analysis with us move time. hi i'm femi oke a and you're in the stream the presidents of kosovo say they support a land swaps towards a new dawn in relations but the proposal is dividing opinion imo it could be allowed to they will ask whether changing the borders within the western balkans will promote peace or deep in divisions send us your comments your twitter and our live shot. kosovo is recognized as a state by one hundred sixteen countries but neighboring so still considers it to be a rebel province that first broke away during a war two decades ago now president of course of us says that they are going to
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quote him here a good window of opportunity and of quote to reach a final deal with serbia as the idea of land swaps gain support and his serbian counterpart alexander richards first put on a united front for altering the country's borders in august the precise outline of a land swap has not been laid out but analysts say serbia could absorb parts of northern kosovo home to a majority serbian population kosovo could receive parts of serbia's for valley which is largely populated by ethnic albanians. the suggestion that land swaps could be part of a final deal between kosovo and serbia has sparked some fierce debate some observers say they could reduce tensions add put both serbia and kosovo on the path towards e.u. membership but for many people than swaps are not the answer in late september thousands of course of us protested against the very idea of changing the borders of the country to discuss this further we're joined by florian bieber he is
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a professor of political science whose work focuses on south eastern europe he joins us from grosse austria now that i mean it is director of the center for euro atlantic studies she joins us from serbia's capital belgrade of the course of our capital pristina we have all gone millet he is an activist and policy analyst it's good to have you here everybody i'm just thinking back to that map that we showed at the beginning of the program it seems a little bit extreme for two countries have borders have been quite set for some time to be thinking about giving a bit of this back taking a bit of this what is behind it. well it's going to a lot to do with the fact that both countries have established many diplomatic relations serbia refuses to recognize kosovo and its name claims its constitution that this is a part of serbia so there's an open question and the real question is how do result results of water changes or something else it's clear the messages between the
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european union dangerous the difference is there are some terms in which they recognize one another so that both of them can join the european union so at the end of the day it's actually about to get the you. know border between each other that's the certainly the are you. are going to just thinking about as we have another look at that map there how easy is it to go from kosovo into serbia from serbia into kosovo bearing in mind that the end of. his relationship that hasn't happened yet. there have been some of the freedom of movement improvement because there's been a biologic over the past two years to fill the by the. cross where you can go to serve you know you were so we can move freely into kosovo the problem is. this idea border change and come to. explain the context why it's part of the process of joining the e.u. the e.u. one hundred one that was a joint as
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a result of bilateral disputes and what is happening now is because there's been this artificial kind of deadline said that to follow the nineteen should be maybe the kind of date where a final like comprehensive solution should be should be reached and the challenges of this is not the preferred option for coastal land swaps and and it does not enjoy and recent polling the straw that does not enjoy life the white support. but it's kind of has been imposed or at least a part of the political he thinks especially present us just kind of embrace this. because kosovo you know the expectation from the west and from parts of the e.u. is because social make some sort of compromise for serbia the recognizes within these borders. and it's very difficult for kosovo to sort of. come up with a new more concessions more than it has given in terms by not i mean getting more
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rights because of the serbs so now with kosovo not having any more to give. would come to this ideal maybe exchanging territories and this is actually a. by by serbia the key difference in why this has become the acceptable is the shift in the international community until now where there have been sort of any talk of borders has been sort of strongly discouraged both of those in the balkans have been. you know sex and the country should result in the minority issues within these existing borders but now there's been a bit of a shift in the international community especially in terms of the u.s. position on this so this difference in opinion or so is what openness the u.s. or this issue. impacts the way some people in kosovo war especially present sees this and you know sees it as one of the ways. of how possible.
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making good solid like a magic bullets. actually it's still we still don't know what we actually thought so i don't i'm glad that you brought that up you actually raise several interesting points there that several of our community members are at going i want to pause on just because you gave us the view from kosovo i wanted to share the view from belgrade that this is someone who tweets and that the main discussion is about territory but we should but what we should talk about is people and how to ensure that albanians and serbs live in a society in which it's guaranteed the rule of law security access to justice freedom of movement and speech respect of human and minority rights and job opportunities so yes and i want to go to you with that coming to us from belgrade are these things that citizens are not accessing right now on either side in serbia or in kosovo. well first of all your comments i think it is fair to
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nazis that actually fire in your member states part of them are also nato member states having to call nice cost so as well and it is not mentally by life that i would this could be seen to be any said i you know that they probably switch sides fully be cracking defendants as many pointed and commentators and frankly diplomats want to present they are talking about fifty unique case so there has been punished you know all the the good deeds and by nato intervention back in ninety nine. of human rights and those on going to many fitting crises and killing of civilians but then too that is the part of the kerry study as an adult it's a prick unique a thing does not by let's settle disputes it is full fledged most illogical disputes bearing in mind the dead as member states of the security council fall also not fickleness in cost of all but yes you know of a vote the act trying i think. in a good state to find is an acceptable season go piece for agreement between
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said yeah and call someone that can keep both current and cities or several studies on the e.u. but and seeing the portal dial between validating cos of all the sucky five years ago none has changed we did it got to the medical condition of the five member states that still haven't because nice costs of all anything not that all the commitments have been made by both sides for example the association of municipalities a said there hasn't been set back that says that its exodus off adjustments of administrative line between costs of all instead of the app is actually not trying final goal as such it is just the brunt of the tools in an effort to find a more comprehensive duty both acceptable solution. which of course should include all other things but it is not fair to
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a narrow. person to be just some kind of british and be monk or go to this. is actually where someone. sues. votes. and interests this is actually part of most of my approach if you ask me. ok i see a lot of this there's a obviously as a political conversation happening at a certain level but there are also people who are living either in serbia or costs of a ton of work out what might happen to them if they're in these areas that have been discussed so. for me because i actually want to hear from some of those people so in september in the serbian town of. we talk to anyone and a serbian about the prospect of them being not in serbia anymore but being in kosovo this is what they told us four years of bush joining kosovo would mean free
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trade because here there is massive unemployment and there is no future that's why young people are leaving. mali. but what if there's a conflict can't forbid a conflict brings the greatest damage so all we should by no means give away what is meant as a gift to me. so what i'm not clear about is what is the actual plan how does that how does this actually happen or we even happen is it just talk at a political level that will never actually happened. i mean i i think that we don't know that and that's part of the problem we have and nobody knows the details of such an idea i mean young as one of you know one of the people from think tanks he has been advocating it or been suggesting these border changes but from the politics we haven't had any clear trigger to kind of outline what this would look like and also how to do with it because as we just saw in this little report read
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there are serbs that think the pressure of all the pressures were on about the towns which are talked about where they end up this certainly would be rather unhappy to be all of a sudden course of the citizens but also we're going to keep them up and that a significant share of serbs do not live in the north of kosovo they live in their central parts of course which could not johnson you know and they would find a more volatile position you find some of the most vocal critics of the idea of border changes among those serbs serbs from towns like about johnny or should observe or other villages and communities across hospital who could not hope to be or or or it dissipates to be part of serbia so there's a degree of uncertainty and i think that's partly what the danger of such a plan that it creates more anxiety and i fully agree with the honor that of course the goal is rule of law the goal is to sort of we're moving both countries lord but the question is whether this change of borders and i think we should call it
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correction of administrative borders and anything like that to be in there i was told is a joke and cause we're now days how do you call it a haircut you call it a correction because people start using the term correction for what it is of order changed and that's a very significant one will affect several tens of thousands if not hundred thousand people. and that creates a lot of difficulties and we're clear poppy general risks and dangers of it and i think those who have been advocating it or putting it on the agenda have not been met i think the so and at the end it's talk about territories it is a talk about territories and ones terror which are. it's on the agenda gets to be very difficult to focus of issues a lot on democracy and on human rights no if you wait this debate has sidelined is what really matters for most citizens it is about jobs it's what you do get will governments and your cost of almost thirty years really for most of its citizens the moment i do believe that. the changes will operate better power to words that
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no doubt is one of the risks that the agenda gets hijacked by a national debate what the karajan i get the other side doesn't get it so it's a zero sum game with losers winners and employ and adding to that uncertainty and that anxiety that you talked about is a tweet like this again who says this will all depend on the population living on the said lannes for swapping for it to work there must be one hundred percent agreement between both the government and the population however it doesn't look like there is this is a tweet we got from puns and rosa says hopefully you will make it clear on this show the host of a silver serbia territory swap is opposed by seventy seven percent of kosovo citizens despite this the e.u. and the us are trying to sell it as a will of the people idea so that seventy seven percent stat comes from a poll done in september by the kosovo democratic institute you can see it here and we can also tweet it out for you would you accept the exchange of territory between kosovo and serbia as part of the normalization agreement between the parties and
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you see it there the no is pretty overwhelming and on what are people saying. that there's a carry on this because laurie also mentioned people feel with the what what is being a stranger what's what they want of the other aspects of this war because this will not only be an exchange also include other parts like also joining the u.n. and you know what will what will happen to the rights that serbs currently with in kosovo so this idea is still very big and very clear so people are people's opinion so far about it is mostly based on it's over. injection personal rejection of the person was the pose and that's present us you who has construct considerable trust in the political scene now i think when we talk about human voices like the voices of actual people and those who will be affected we should definitely be worried about those who are in these affected areas but there is another part of the population that is deeply affected by this and this is one of the reasons why there
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is a sense of a rush to have an agreement and these are the other ninety percent living in the other parts of the country both in serbia and kosovo who are in a wait stuck as hostile minus exactly. as hostage of this this you know this is the continuing this of this limbo and of this of special serbia it should not being resolved and empowering you know there's the flip side of this it's empowering nationalists it's allowing the political elite to sort of securitized the issue and and sort of you know and then rule by sort of being the more patriotic on this of this issue it's hampering the mccombs nation in kosovo it has really damaged our state building process it has them as reconciliation because for example in in kosovo the minority is still seen a little bit as a threat as sort of being are representing serbia and not actually being you know a minority and it's also damaging this whole security architecture for the whole region so my concern is and what some people who might be
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a little more pragmatic on on the solution right now is that you know is this this is a definitely a horrible deal with a lot of risks but is it really worse than the status quo. or this continuation of nominal i mean the type that america doesn't really cut point to put to yet in atlanta. well i can still gave my colleague some cultural. people like betty telling me all i also citizens of this petty thirty's and they have a right to well it's what we see is the best for most of us yes it is complicated maybe it's going to be complicated for some individuals who are leaving along the administers the line anything that many city line because there hasn't been a scot someone like five member states for example but speaking about cities ever since this idea became a mainstream topic nothing happened no magni significant security threats challenges got four beat eggs all those as soon dates and individuals who are not
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the presenting many people like me started tyco which aside are young each are claiming as speaking about the change even if you want gordon. two thousand and eight that cost about unilaterally declare independence was also the change of type of the board that for many even dos are leaving south of you but you're not even formally six ounces and still may have seen significant in terms of security happened so they are not talking big security at risk as some point it's an apartment diplomats are talking about as the speak today. if you would make. me an exercise in two thousand troops is going secretary general of nato and president x. someone press conference announcing both sides improvement. that could sometimes be better for example. the bureaucracy criticizing
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in your. favorite it's the be all over democracy but for me here from d.c. same point it's now is that actually they are not purely in terms of sections of what they did was back in nyc these not acknowledging all the improvements and reality. including defrag that grace your own yet one thing you grow are now member states of make up even romania bulgaria not the member states of nato sort of the missional guy a big thing costs are going to be distracted now they are the members sect that are trying to sell the idea when i hear what you are saying i want to i want to policy for a moment because i want to bring in do members of are you me and i think you get the same amount of time i do believe you did if i actually keep go or i don't believe you did but i'll write what i want to bring in as someone who actually reiterate what some of what you are saying and they're in a back and forth with someone else on line so the first person is he says i believe
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this land swap will open a pandora's box in the region the predominantly serve entity in bosnia will then want to move closer to serbia i think i'll be in eons in the former macedonia former yugoslav republic of macedonia will want to join with kosovo now the person who has your point of view as this is janet serbia who says the pandora's box was opened with the recognition of kosovo a serbian province why because it was a unilateral decision against the serbian constitution international law and the un resolution and unlike that the land slop land swap would be a deal between sites involved but not with those parties so florian i want to go to you with this argument here in this idea of a pandora's box being opened for future conflict. i mean i would be skeptical in the sense that you know we're not going to see if a you know tremendous change overnight if the border you know if we would have the border changes between serbia and kosovo first of all there would have to be bilaterally agreed and that's quite different from a unilateral claim to change borders so i would not be the one who says you know
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pandora's box we exported changes tomorrow but it certainly the message is we want ethnic borders and i think you know you don't know what's really you know kind of pushing on that saying that you know fundamentally i'm not saying that there should be there should be a stability at the price of democracy but what i'm rather saying is that aren't we by letting the borders fall or ethnic lines and this is what this is fundamentally about on the mentality of an army my job i think i want you to fundamentally unable to not just price finish my sentence younger but play as i meant to manage if it encouraged. but let me just finish the sentence we're going to mentally encouraging the other night parties will try to change the borders along the lines because we say this is possible this is legitimate this is something which i think not immediately but the longer it will encourage exactly the wrong critical courses it
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will keep destabilising immediately states like was you know like mr don't you know can i just add something else that i saw and this is not a pundit i know you're talking a lot about pundits today but this is from kosovo's prime minister ramesh how to deny you have a look on my laptop is an interview that he did quite recently with the irish times he says that this idea of changing the borders it would mean war if we reopen what has already been agreed it means reopening the past and in our region reopening the past means reopening wars all these borders are the result of tragic wars that is the prime minister of course of a who is not even i mean the president of kosovo that so even though i think among . better soon credit should be actually responded to to be done kind of flames coming from sort of get but please a like me if you ask me so many questions let me just answer some of them first of all it is not ethnic partition a mission by ethnic light it is just the least bad feasible option and studies
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there is no even reason to write the predicament to get in and claim that we are going along the line of creation of one hundred sixty eight because as we speak instead of be out there are ongoing process of electing of national councils of ethnic minorities and very straight few one of them can get inside the government boss the us from soundtrack they have been participating in this again government they don't hear any other of the grains graham again approach is the balkans are just going to fall apart and again. there is an increased cooperation between said we are not just the mention bank think contrary to ninety's guy the region is in the process of the e.u. integration bare knuckle creations under the. regional cooperation council the chief of staff's all the. member states of the region including co so what good is a day at the track better except that it's activists are very scared to go partnership action plan we make so i don't know who is going for three going to start because of what i frankly would like the national journal asked me script how
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did they know you on that because here's just some of these pretty obsolete and all schools no risks if properly address i thought the record there you be are actually possibly gaining a lot sort of we are getting closer to the united states and nato ok and yet i think we have one i mean i'm going to read you out you said that and i thank you and i wrap it up from my what you heard from people in in serbia talking about maybe being. incorporated into kosovo i want you to hear from people in kosovo who may well be incorporated into into serbia and you'll hear from in just a second from a serbian and the albanian so again the folks down on the ground have a listen. i don't know what will happen with south of here in that case the division is between serbs and them unfortunately that is bad because of the change in the borders i believe is dangerous it is best for kosovo turns on preserving its
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borders i would lie for president medvedev and the john of this to be a part of kosovo but i don't believe that serbia would give away all its ok after it's just odd. a lot of skepticism here as well this is via you tube legendary rights and there are no benefits and as soon as you start demanding land and switching it about conflict happens and war follows thank you to i guess florian yelena all gone of course this show is not long enough to have this discussion i'm going to take it all online at a.j. stream to be continued thank you very much for taking part many and i will see you online see you next time.
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you know from. on al-jazeera. calls for a transparent investigation into the disappearance of a saudi journalist. i'm richelle carey this is al jazeera live from doha also coming up ron comes with unclean hands. takes the u.s. a quarter of the consequences of a bombing nearly forty years ago. as an extreme far right candidate almost brazil's presidential vote in the first round we'll look at what's next before they run off later this month plus. suffering in.


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