tv The Stream 2019 Ep 16 Al Jazeera January 28, 2019 10:32pm-11:00pm +03
it's an iron ore mine most of those people are presumed dead trapped under the mud the town of ramadi. and the united nations human rights investigator looking into the murder of saudi. has been missing with takis foreign minister agnes kalamata is in turkey for a week of talks because he was killed in a saudi consulate in istanbul three months ago it is the first day back to work for hundreds of thousands of federal employees in the united states affected by the partial government shutdown which was suspended on friday but i only be working for three more weeks unless donald trump gets funding for mexico portable well to stay with us because the stream now looks at what could be next for venezuela and to do you will for the presidency.
millions of venezuelans are wondering what lies in store a made a jewel for the presidency that is divided international support i seventy ok and i'm really good as an interim president maintains his push for power we want to hear from you on your part to be a twitter and the you tube like job. president nicolas maduro is facing and president to challenge his leadership by the head of the country's national assembly wango hijo declared himself interim president i'm going to say i made anti-government protests in the capital caracas us press than donald trump supports quite
a while argentina brazil and colombia mungo's backing him but not with your says declaration is unconstitutional and he has the support of russia and china has more on what people are saying online. venezuela my good as new president day twenty seven january just some of the hotshots the venezuelans on both sides of this issue have been rallying around in recent weeks supporters of president must do it or using the hash tag i'm a doodle is my president and we are must do it though i thought one of those tweets seeing who supports the self-proclaimed gives me more reasons to support the do it oh well facebook user tale of pop news one of the hashtags to rally support for a promo due to event how the new york city one why though is calling for more protests but there are concerns for the safety of demonstrators former stream gas and caucus space photo journalist sunday hernandez took these photos she says thirteen people were killed on the first day of demonstrations the venezuelan
observatory for social conflict is tweeting updates on the number of people who have died during protests so far this tweet using the hash tag for january twenty fifth reports twenty nine people dead the group has also created a google map to document those fast. but provides legal support to people in detention is also documenting the treatment of protesters founder gonzalo him yob tweeted sunday that seven hundred ninety one protesters have been arrested since demonstrations began. thank you so much so for more on this we're joined in the studio by david smith he is a former mayor of the municipality of caracas and he's now living in exile and is a visiting scholar at georgetown university tomorrow is a member of the venice weight and national assembly and also a member of the popular will party that is part of the opposition to nicolas maduro she is in caracas and she sits we have a hundred asco is
a historian of modern latin america and he's extensively research venezuela and from philadelphia we have. he's an organizer a writer political theorist who is also written widely about france where it's good to have you here everybody let me just try out your your historian and flex your muscles here how is it possible to have an interim president and a president of venezuela at the same time. well i mean it's not possible. the. why though has appealed to is a particular article in the constitution two thirty three which declares in the event of sakya power the executive faculties of that office go down to the president of the national assembly and they declare that there's a vacuum of power in the executive because of tremendous. concerns about
irregularities in the presidential elections last year which gave money to a fresh new six year term and he was supposed to swear himself in for second six year term of general tenth and so are courting to article two thirty three they. suggests that it because is his presidential man that is illegitimate that if france appoint him to be president ha in the biz i absolutely. understand what you're saying i wonder was this a vacuum of power but is there was that kind of palace. concerned totally that is about you know far worse things generally tenth and that is why according to our constitution what is a vacuum of power of this people the house becomes the press in the interim president does whether well one way will. is doing he's interim president of the venezuela he's the head of state he's the commander in chief of the armed forces he's been recognized by more done for to governments already called on member of
seal which is our neighbors as united states kind of what even george michael soul would germany france are also going to use in why the last interim president he's well so. we're the only piece of the possible waiting east to my eureka of the armed forces to become loyal to become institutional on with the transition will formally begin but what are the at this time mother who is completely isolated on hughes who's he using the forces and he's killing people as we've heard almost thirty people have been killed on the regular group to be in the palm. you're saying there dana but i want to bring this tweet up from carlos carlos says this image it is see why though is a tricky question in his view he says the process he followed to claim the presidency is not strictly legal but he is constitutionally allowed as our guest said today to claim the presidency if congress deems the seat of the president is vacant or taken claim through fraud so clearly this is something that is up to how
you interpret the constitution and we've already seen some people interpreting it slightly differently tomorrow they're going to talk to us about what this person use is a tricky question what is there this is in my view the problem it's. to be understood from a larger perspective to start. fifteen when the national assembly to thurso the supermajority of the national assembly was won by by the opposition and then immediately after mother will stop to have. electrical system or create a product system that it's impeding since then to have free and fair elections and suddenly in two thousand and eighteen after having illegal most of the. actual democrats. out of the middle. well all are all well
he decided to use in the national assembly additional national assembly which is the perl institution that is also struggling. call for elections nine multi events and these elections were not accepted by. such a few countries thirteen or fourteen. all right so i want to play to you george and i guess the venezuela it is an defense minister is describing what is happening right now he is saying that a coup is taking place let's have a listen in to what he had to say. well would i like to sit on one of those on the side of the well but i will settle multiple distilled openness an even equal a model then in a he will. win that in the senate will say little live on on the low level. i will put a cuomo the that is the. only problem that management. all of us
who will want to be. a very serious issue has to put it mildly chill chill take sure i mean the only correction that i would offer is that this is not necessarily a coup but if an attempted coup right the military has not taken the side of these of these coup plotters who are you don't need to be a constitutional expert or a lawyer to understand what article two hundred thirty three says it says absence of power i mean this is an absence of the president abandoning his post it doesn't say anything about fraud it doesn't say anything about anything else these are all being read into a much longer historical process that is incredibly complicated right the opposition won the national assembly in two thousand and fifteen this is true and it's a strange dictatorship that allows for the opposition to win elections but instead of pursuing a program of reform or economics stabilisation the opposition just let it to antagonize and attempt to remove the president and attempt to declare the supreme court in contempt and as
a result with the clarity in contempt by the supreme court and this is the tip for tat it's been playing out now for a couple of years but there's one elected president of venezuela and there's an attempt using as as w. has done explicitly this sort of recognition by right wing governments across you know across latin america as though that were some measure of legitimacy when that's not how you measure the didn't see in the democratic world david. well. all that to explain a little bit more the. things the opposition warned the mayor to the national assembly. a lot of congressmen right now are in exile because they have been persecuted thirty millions were removed after we won our elections and six of them have went to jail when one of those thirty nine years also a consumer and was killed for four months ago after he was detained because he participated on the general assembly of the u.n. and as we speak more than four hundred political or more for four hundred political prisoners in venezuela so we are facing
a regime that is. a human rights violator it's a regime that is clearly involved in drug trafficking illegal mining that has become not only a threat to venezuela the threat to the region i have to say that is the responsible of three point three millions of venezuelans migrants and refugees that have left the country because of shortages of food shortages of medicine a hyperinflation of one or more than one million percent since january tenth there is a vacancy of power will cause we did not have our free and fair elections anymore so i said i mean there your idea of the international community is recognizing the interim president one way or the majority of venezuelans which is the most important thing here is are supporting one way though as the interim president as you see an elite of armed forces and a regular group to stay at the palace as we speak he's completely isolated. well because this is i mean this part of a very misleading mayor in exile we're talking about people including david who
were the rest was ordered for allowing even encouraging bloody protests in the streets of their own municipalities in other words not protecting their own citizens i mean this is why people were ordered arrested and so we're talking one fugitive from justice well actually i think you justify that consumer because he participated in a journalist and reveal u.n. he was detained at the airport and then he was killed in a prison for you well you have a problem with human rights and you go back and forth between you there and i understand your point george and david i wanted to bring in this perspective picking up on something that was said earlier about the shortages of food because i want to our audience to remember why it is that venezuela is in the situation it is now this is laura the dollar she says these protests are linked to the legitimacy of nicolas maduro selection in two thousand and eighteen which comes in the context of a deep crisis reaching many aspects of country life lack of food and medicine health crisis urban violence human rights violations we also heard from someone else is
there andrea hernandez who you saw pictures from earlier in the show she said it's been a couple of rough weeks and venezuela there are protests all over the country and they're being repressed and practice daily life is interrupted by the violent clashes between demonstrators and police moche of musts most of which occur in the body oh so tamara talk to us about what daily life is like for the average venezuelan. well actually i will take the last sentence used by andrea in the sense that change that have occurred in these your protests is that they are concentrated mainly in the very poor neighborhoods where the police they so elite forces are now these appearing people and people in jail or killing the number of people officially it's now around forty six or forty four and the number of people put in prison it's now a around nine hundred and seventy so it's
a situation that is not comparable to the situation of the former process back in two thousand and seventeen because probably many of the persons who were protesting in two thousand and seventeen just leave the country because of the of the lock of opportunities and the lack of medicine the lack of food and the not happens also in the very poor neighborhoods and what is so i understand near in this situation it's the popular support one hundred i want to play you a couple of tapes of protesters on the street what caught my eye was how young they actually are have a look. it is time to end this dictatorship please take to the streets enough with all this hunger the shortages of medicine and people dying in the street of hunger enough people of venezuela please it is time to take to the streets thank you very much that is why we are here to support our national
assembly the only legitimate hower for the fourteen million venezuelan which is with its people today and then ismail and people are here the youth are calling on the entire military to listen to the people and. i wonder as far as you're concerned he is driving the movement on the street is it coming from young people or is it coming from everybody. it's cross-cutting for sure and the next amount of those mentioning there is there's it's not just this general i sense of just discontent with the government part having to do with the hyper inflation that you're mentioning the kinds of shortages that you're talking about but also the inability to see itself out of this kind of economic still me that is your choice mentioning is complex in terms of its causes but what is significant to me is that unlike other protests in two thousand and fourteen and two thousand and seventeen yes in fact there are certainly used that are. at the forefront but primarily we're seeing part because of the significant amount of people who left over the last two and a half years that it's less those sectors of the population and it's really more older
folks not older right but but those are the ones who remain right now i would like to make one particular point about the issue of popular support which you know david is right in bringing up the fact is that we actually don't know if the majority of venezuelans support one way though as president that same article that is appealed to as a way to legitimize why those claim to the presidency also calls for elections to be held within thirty days and although they have been snow weather has said that that's part of the plan to call elections we don't know when those would happen right so you know in terms of thinking about the stability of the next one going forward what needs to happen is the calling for elections as soon as possible so someone here who is i would agree with you this is john on twitter who says my daughter has an incentive to call for elections if he feels that his removal is eminent probably via the faction from the military high command of which i'm not
convinced or a few paces continued international program that gives governance on and on and viable george i want to go to you with this one because it talks about something that we've seen hundreds of online other people talking about where the military is in this what's your take on that and this tweet. i think the military is unlikely to move against the venezuelan government despite all of the pressures coming down on it you've got you know definitely generals and others using the military attache and you know they were clearly being offered all these incentives to break you know to you know to spend the rest of their lives living in the united states and in comfortable circumstances if they're willing to make this political move to help to weaken the the mother of government i think that's you know unlikely at the same time this question of the elections is it's very difficult as well because for example you've got european company countries essential threatening the venezuelan government that they will recognize quite though if you don't muddle doesn't call elections and it looks incredibly. difficult and it looks weak for
a political leader who is just of course inaugurated for a second term to heed these calls these threats these ultimatums from from foreign countries that should have really no say zero say you know what's going on in venezuela. totally agree that we need to have a free and fair elections commitment the interim president where you will that's what our constitution says and that's what the my your of the people of all i can say no the majority all them as well and in the international community also ones and we have been asking for that for years but unfortunately we don't we have not had a free and fair elections because the main leaders are in prison or in jail political parties in every dictatorship those are illegalized in venezuela there's no free media and there's no one neutral electoral council so we want to change that on the interim president one way though we want to have a free and fair elections that with legal political parties or anyone who wants to roam who could run with a free media and let's let the people choose the country they want. when what when
where that happened or it has the needs to happen. soon as possible but to achieve that is very important that a model has to step down and we all know that army has been protected now i believe of the armed forces by rebel groups are not according to soldiers in venezuela there are more than two hundred soldiers are now in prison so not only soldiers abroad are. spoken against the regime but also hold yours in venezuela as well because they are suffering from the same problems as anyone is well under suffering for hyperinflation shortages of food shortages of medicine and even crime. here we haven't seen yeah we haven't seen go ahead and then i'm going to come back because we're almost at the end. again we haven't seen as george was mentioning a kind of broad based generalized defection which i agree that wouldn't come from
the higher ranks to say have too much invested in mother staying in power come from the middle ranks i think partly it has to do with some confusion regarding the proposed amnesty law that the national assembly has has used as a kind of carrot to entice some of these middle ranks to you know to switch allegiances and discussions now are suggesting that in fact the law that's been proposed is so ambiguous as to be unenforceable right so i guess one question would be asked of david and others and the amount of for sure you know how what kinds of alterations what kind of moves it been made to you know to bring that amnesty line to international standards and therefore what would therefore be the likelihood. of more significant defections coming forward talking on for that very peripheral thank you. well actually i think this is. the core in the current. discussion for the second discussion the public discussion will give place for any other changes that are needed according to international
standards and to avoid those who are human drive or. human rights. ok we've been talking about the international community right that i want to show you what been happening at the united nations just this past weekend and the part that america and other nations applying it regarding what's happening in venezuela. now it's time for every other nation to pick a side no more delays no more games either you stand with the forces of freedom or you're in league with mature and his male. does not represent a threat to peace and security if anything does represent a threat to peace and it's the same with an aggressive action of the united states and their allies aimed at the outset of the legitimately elected president of an international community have very strong views on what it means for america and other nations to be involved in venezuela and they have one of them is this that i
hear i'm a dual supporter who writes in spanish and it's translated here below we will not allow the vultures to go for the oil of venezuela and that is in reference to some of these international powers that people see as just trying to get their hands on venezuela's oil if alice has the majority of it as well and support nicolas maduro but i want to share the opposite point of view from a video comment we got from a journalist and caracas milan sent us this. one of the things that people outside business well let me to understand about what is happening here is that this movement is not a coup it's a political movement that is sweeping in our constitution and it's not only the us that is backing up these new president great thoughts it's also many many countries across america even in europe what we need to feel the people in a swell of contrary it's a new government another mcgrath the government that respects human rights so
two different views there david on one looking at the international community as as being greedy and meddling and the other saying actually it's interesting that we're getting support from the u.s. and europe and other countries. yes. i said before i mean this is something unique in the region not only the u.s. these organize in one way the laws the interim president the minority of latin american countries they voted one thousand contras in the organization of american states voted in favor to recognize where you go as an interim president also george arkell sole trader israel there would be an union will build out in the next days the sooner in venezuela we have them ocracy the better for the region regarding the oil thing that the us is interested i mean all the oil the has given to cuba for free the gas fields now russia is running illegally because it was given with no
approval of national assembly sort of the things that need to be river re going to shaded in in venezuela in the future we won every nation to half the opportunity to invest in them as well but we need to do this legally not the way that has been given the last years. i mean it's actually not unprecedented historically speaking in one nine hundred fifty four for instance the oh yes back of democratically elected president how cold war bans in guatemala i mean you know other kinds of interventions of the issue of you know the u.s. or other countries in latin america recognizing you know presidents it's not it's not that that big you know that's not unique i guess i would ask david wright i mean if partly the. i have that many i have a minute left michel what i guess i would ask what would he say to you what would he say if indeed abrams having been appointed a special envoy no one would can mistake in that abram's border of democracy and human rights and how do you question his end of the question that you can ask to to
the u.s. administration. i'm asking you because you're the one who's been meeting with them i met with him our commitment is to have free and fair elections where could be then used to have to restore democracy in venezuela our commitment to our people stop suffering for children with the support of well or criminals on your side. we have we have the recognition of the more yards of latin american countries and we have there we have the recognition from our european i'm under a day when all the consul as well just when it begins to get a little spicy is when we're going to wrap it up. but we will continue on line can i also tell you a tension to online here as well al-jazeera adult look for news that for latin america. updating it hour by hour you can stay change over right so watching this episode of the street.
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al-jazeera. every. hello i'm maryam namazie in london just a quick look at the top stories for you now egypt's human rights record has once again come under scrutiny during a visit to the country by the president of france emanuel macron told his egyptian counterpart abdel fatah sisi that egypt's human rights record is even worse now than under deposed president hosni mubarak reports from paris. so far emanuel micros first trip to egypt.