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tv   Inside Story 2019 Ep 161  Al Jazeera  June 11, 2019 2:32pm-3:01pm +03

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the president and hezbollah supported mr zaka release he short us that he would not commit any further criminal acts with the court finally issued a conditional release order all these procedures were carried out in accordance with a purely judicial procedure and the subject is not linked to any political file or exchange file. another mass protest is planned in hong kong as politicians debate a controversial extradition bill. pro-democracy leaders surrounded the legislative council president will be chairing that debate and says he's aiming to put the bill for a vote in 9 days time an estimated $1000000.00 marches took part in sunday's rally to protest against the bill the city's need to warn companies and businesses against encouraging employees to join wednesday's rally. already out today with the headlines here and i just got more news coming up right after inside story.
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it was the biggest protest since hong kong was handed back to china 22 years ago and many people are angry it's an extradition bill that could see suspects tried on the mainland so what could this mean for the city's feature this is inside story was it can get my. hello and welcome to the program on the dennis the controversial plan has provoked a heated debate about the future of hong kong the government has proposed
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a new law which would allow for suspects in serious crimes to be sent to countries where there's no extradition agreement now this is led to the biggest protests since the semi autonomous territory was returned to chinese rule that was in 1997 organizers say a 1000000 people marched on sunday they're worried that china could use the law to target political opponents and have them sent to the mainland for trial and they see it as yet another sign of beijing eroding the form of british colonies autonomy the city's chief executive is defending the bill though and wants parliament to pass it by the end of the month. we were told we received feedback that these additional matches i effective in addressing the concerns of the stakeholders and we will continue to do something so there is no question of us moring views expressed in society but hong kong has to move on their us to be
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a severe deficiencies and gaps in our existing system to do with cross border crimes and transnational crimes. there is sort of a very difficult area to understand why hong kong cannot have any legal assistance on criminal metis without closest neighbors that is a mainland china taiwan and the cup. will bring in a guest in just a little while 1st though his the chinese foreign ministry had to say about this proposal. firstly the central government will continue to firmly support the government of the hong kong special administrative region to push forward the amendments of the extradition bill secondly china is strongly opposed to any external interventions in hong kong's legislative affairs. so as we mentioned earlier the u.k. handed back control of hong kong to china 22 years ago with
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a special agreement called one country 2 systems china agreed to keep hong kong's economic and social systems in place and preserve its autonomy for a period of 50 years that would end in 2047 this means the people of hong kong continue to enjoy many rights and freedoms that are not available to those on the mainland and crucially the city retains its independent judicial system. thank you all right let's introduce our panel now in hong kong we have claudia a legislator and pro-democracy activist in beijing we have it to gal vice president of the center for china and globalization that's a think tank also in hong kong we have andrew long a businessman and research fellow at beijing normal university welcome to you all claudia let me start with you we've just heard the words of kerry lamb the chief executive and which she said it makes sense doesn't it for hong kong to have some
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some arrangement an extradition arrangement with its nearest neighbors given that hong kong is go extradition arrangements with the likes of the united states with france with the united kingdom doesn't it make sense. no it doesn't make sense carrie lamb is a liar i mean the what's the hurry away finn waiting for more than 20 years why is suddenly such a hurry it shows that she is a beijing puppet she is just doing what her beijing boss tells her to do now at 1st most people in hong kong would assume that this is all about taiwan they claim that we need to try to help taiwan murder case and the future to quote and unquote the suspect as in hong kong we need to be able to extradite him back to taiwan ok that was the original issue because
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a wrench ment's on the about the extradition back in 1907 when it excludes excludes china the rest of china and including taiwan so if taiwan a subset of this arrangement you would be having taiwan acknowledging that it is indeed part of china which is politically impossible so taiwan practically has told hong kong to get lost when it comes to this extradition control oversee but this still pushing it ahead and it's now very clear that hong kong is the ultimate target we don't have any confidence we don't have any trust in china's. rule of law rather than lack of it right right
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trust chinese judiciary or legal system right let's let's come to you then. go out in beijing clearly firm from what we've been hearing from claudia there's no faith the tour in the chinese authorities particularly when it comes to . the judicial system can you wonder about it when you've got 2 canadians who's been arrested allegedly on on political politically motivated charges in order to hit canada for their arrest of a huawei executive so there are lots and lots of questions about the chinese judicial system. well 1st of all the fact that there are demonstrations in hong kong speak to the fact that hong kong is a democracy people in hong kong have the right to protest and demonstrate they need to do that within the rule of law of cause secondly for china and hong kong one country 2 systems they are 2 different jurisdictions or god continues to
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practice what we call capitalism or democracy in the sense where as meaning china practice is socialism. with chinese characteristics they are more or less 2 different jurisdictions now for a tradition deal to be executed between or among different jurisdictions that's the rule farm in the world many countries or many regions have such an arrangement china have such execution arrangements in practice or theory with many countries and regions and also it is true that in the world today there are many criminal offenses which are happening across bungler is across different jurisdictions therefore going forward is specially in the internet age to have a tradition will become more and more common practice right ok for it to be surprising that a male in china there is no actual issue around her right or it will be extradition
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arrangements sooner or later and the sooner the better or right let's go to andrew andrew you're a businessman and unusually for hong kong this protests which the organizers claim reached a 1000000 in terms of the participants it included didn't it members of the legal profession members of your sector the business sector as well so clearly more than just the usual suspects if you like were enraged by this proposed bill there's even a housewives' petition i understand which is signed by thousands of housewives who are against this extradition bill what is the objection to it from the business lobby in particular. well of course from the business. as far as the business sectors concerned the worry in the beginning was that a lot of his this meant have been operating in china. for a number of years and then of course there are certain kind of practices which
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could be regarded as normal in china but actually could also be the cause for trumped up charges so i think that the business community has expressed the worry and hence that has to lead to amendments in the bill. first for exempting certain crimes and also raising the threshold of kind of crimes qualifying for this extradition procedure raising it the bar as it were from something live for 3 years imprisonment to 7 years imprisonment and that has largely satisfied the business community but i think that the there's a widespread distrust in the community in hong kong of the rule of law in china and the worry is that you know if you commit a crime even you very minor crime or political crime. it can be not be regarded as a crime in hong kong and then there could be trumped up charges i think that this
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has got. into the talk about and then people like and with the hype up quite dramatically during the past couple of months and this has led into a widespread kind of worry concern if not anger but you would look at it as. panda this pointed out china has had is having something like i think 40 extradition treaties with 40 countries including a number of advantage countries like france spain portugal and indeed. only about a week ago spain of course as an advanced country has handed over something like 95 chinese fugitives involving an international crime then in recent years quite a number of serious criminal fugitives who tears are hiding in hong kong right ok
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you make a good point and claudia let me put that to you given the trans national now nature of much of modern day crime doesn't it just make sense isn't it logical and given the fact that countries like spain which has a high regard for human rights and human freedoms and they've handed over suspects to china shouldn't hong kong follow in the path of spain or france. no no no that's a completely different picture when you talk about something between strums and china you're talking about something by let's row nation to nation come on home kong is part of china china to soften country of hong kong if they want our bookseller you know we all know the hong kong bookseller story right if beijing wants that bookseller to go back you think kerry lamb would dare to say no or
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together and i never i also noted one thing our beijing speaker completely size stepped your question about. chinese judiciary practices and things and my 2nd observation is about this. envy. the businessman talking saying that there are now are better safeguards now listen if you just look at how china has treated our nobel peace when a bowl you tell me you still have confidence if china wants to snatch you from hong kong not from from or spain from hong kong you think you have a chance not to face extradition or together trumped up charges have been mentioned
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and they can package any crime against you there's no separation of powers in china and they say the judiciary would only serve the executive branch of the government so what the whatever happened to fair trial all even more importantly probably the humane treatment of suspects there's no such guarantees right that's the point isn't it victor really. is that what we're seeing in hong kong is the profound lack of trust in the oath or it is in china specifically when it comes to the treatment of prisoners of suspects in the whole system of the judiciary. please allow me to make several very brief points now china like all the other countries or regions is not a perfect country or a perfect place there are always problems fortunately problems in china are being
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improved there are less problem today compared with 40 years ago that's number 2 and i believe tomorrow china will be better than today that's the megatrend now thirdly please allow me to oversize that demonstrations if they are conducted legally should be perfectly fine people if they have grievances go to the street or double street it's protected by the law in hong kong the question is whether the there are people who violate rule of law and demonstrate illegally that's the problem only not a. visit can i just interrupt and ask you can whatever interrupt and ask you then what about the case of the booksellers that claudia mentions i mean there is a fair there's fear among real palpable fear among many residents in hong kong because of cases like the booksellers who would disappeared mysteriously and then turned up on the mainland many weeks if not months later without any explanation as
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to how allow me to allow me to make allow me to make a very quick point if you look at different countries in the world there are always problems in china as a measure there are problems our task is to really identify the problem and get the problems resolved and improved rather than weaning a whiny bark at the wrong tree hong kong whatever it is is part of china and mainland china does not need to do anything but to declare that by 2049 hong kong will no longer be a special a minute of region hong kong will be just one of the cities in china then whatever you are complaining about will be 2 out towards a very effectively 0 therefore the task is for people who hunger. to really wake up to the fact the hunger is part of china and let's work together to get the problem solved or unless i'm up with such a solution victor legless isn't going to happen let's go to he'll here holder is
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addition will be hundreds of polluted is dying to ice on to you let let's hear what claudia has to say claudia. now exactly exactly the point here. we are still free to protest and that's why more than 1000000 people took to the streets better do it while we still can that's the idea you would say you still openly a very publicly criticizing this and that and the other it tells you how free you are in hong kong or up to a point after the passage of this particular law people here would probably need to think what have you have to say what you do you need to think of repercussions and it's the fear indeed test the fear fear is a trade they say that's how insurance business goes on runs right so but it's
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china basically it's china that's trying to get this chilling effect and run the society just watch out big brother is watching you and you know how to behave we will new for the freedom of the world the freedom without fear right the freedom to just speak our minds right andrew hong kong's prosperity depends upon its reputation as being an international financial hub doesn't it if the special status of hong kong is being seen as being undermined in when it comes to the rule of law as well as other areas of course surely that that is going to get a dent the the very fortune of hong kong the poem which its name and reputation is built. well 1st of all i've got to make a point. i don't agree with my colleague in beijing that hong kong is better wake
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up to it by 2049 there were movie one country through a system but i think that we are nowhere near 2 $1049.00 and hong kong prices of as. a point of this region are one country 2 systems but also along the point that. on the one country 2 systems let's not forget the one country because i think the part of the problems which have recent in recent years is that we only focus on provisions in the basic law guarding against hong kong's high degree of autonomy without forgetting without. paying attention to those provisions which. the safeguards in beijing as regards of avoiding hong kong being turned into a base for subversion for example of the need to annex article 23 but i think that
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this protest is not about the rule of law in china is about how long can hold the fort against any kind of fear of trauma charges and i think here we have proper trusts are highly regarded judiciary don't forget our judges our life employment then they would not be subject to any kind of coercion and then over the years it's just a load of very high reputation internationally and of course if you look at the bill there are where we are safeguards elaborate save guards if there is an extra extradition requests it's got to go through the judiciary to do to the justice department so that they can assess the that the case and come back with a view on whether the. extradition requests should be entertain and then eventually of course. the chief executives have got to look at all the factors and
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then all this has to be done in a transparent manner so. i think that at the end of the day the tests that are putting is in the eating are i repeat my 1st remark that all these concerns are legitimate or this worries are real but i think that the the whole government of things learn a big lesson in to the need to pay more attention to a whole to let make sure that the various provisions of any major change is brought to the attention of the public claudia you wanted to come in i. i completely disagree that the hong kong government has learned a lesson if it has done one have behaved like the way can realize that today just at the pretending nothing much has happened and it's now so obvious that they out of it go as to. as beijing friend was saying hong kong people
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need to wake up your part of china and the idea complete with our greater bay area grand plan is to disappear hong kong hong kong's just one of the numerous chinese cities what are you getting so proud of yourself for that's the idea and shut down hong kong as a sense of. this i beg your pardon haven of the scent all right let's also go to that is that how aging is that victor in beijing is that how beijing views hong kong as some sort of pesky far flung territory full of whining moon is. well 1st of all clearly from china's perspective hong kong cannot be a haven for fugitives without getting the justice they need dessert they need to deserve if the crimes the commits are involved in so
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sorry sorry to interrupt and i think i think i have a hunch and i think i am wrong on friends secondly so i think they'll say that it is probably likely they are largely a haven police in a lot of the orosz ok allowing you to think is it allowed me to finish allow me to finish allow me to finish allow me to finish 2nd point 2nd point extradition need to be worked out with due process that's why procedurally speaking we need to work very very hard to make sure any extradition cases need to be worked out with due process without violating the law in hong kong that's the key now 3rd point allow me to finish very quickly hong kong is part of china by 2049 hong kong will no longer have the special image of regions tatars hong kong will be just like any ordinary cities in china hong kong compared with its neighboring city should turn shouldn't and now is already larger then hong kong in terms of the size of the
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g.d.p. in terms of the population people in hong kong need to wake up to the need that they really need to figure out what's the best way to promote the economy in hong kong purely chasing after certain goals will result help economic development will not help lifting the living standards of hong kong we really need to put development as the number one priority for the people in her right victor thank you we are running out of time i'd like to give a clue here the last word basically in hong kong that's according to victor you better just like it or lump it because pretty soon you're going to lose your special status anyway. why i think the comments from beijing obviously. there have been made on behalf of jill non hi this is the the off fish oviedo beijing's view indeed they want hong kong to disappear
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probably not just a by 2049 i was towed but that's another better novel thank you all very much indeed claudia in hong kong victor gao in beijing and andrew learn also in hong kong thank you all very much indeed for a very interesting debate thank you so much and as ever thank you for watching the program you can see it again any time you like and go to the website al-jazeera dot com should you want more discussion and i'm sure you will let us know what your thoughts are on our facebook page facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story there's also the conversation on twitter handle is at a.j. inside story i'm at martin dennis a for me and the whole team here in doha if i can now get my.
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al-jazeera. where ever you. you know watching algis their arms the whole room in doha these are all top news stories the u.n. has described the attack in central lollie that's killed nearly 100 people as an act of unspeakable barbarism the government says gunmen raided a village in the dogan community and burned several houses no one has claimed responsibility but there's been violence from the day on people and their fulani rivals in the past because more what it was a surprise attack in the middle of the night men all made to bikes wielding machetes and guns looking for people from the doggone ethnic group men women and
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children were killed and others injured in the attack is similar to another 3 months ago when suspected doggone armed men.

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