tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News January 12, 2017 9:00am-11:01am GMT
hello, it's thursday, it's nine o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire, welcome to the programme. a former british spy is now at the heart of the story about claims, ferociously rubbished by donald trump, that back in 2013 mr trump fraternised with prostitutes in a moscow hotel room. they looked at that nonsense that was released by, maybe the intelligence agencies, who knows, but maybe the intelligence agencies. meanwhile, america's intelligence chief has told mr trump he doesn't believe his colleagues leaked the allegations. also today, hit—and—run drivers, what makes them flee the scene of an accident? we'll talk to a mother of two who hit a cyclist head—on after driving while drunk. literally about 15 seconds before the policeman came, and i saw the carnage, he came, pulled me out, and
told me what i had done. how did you respond? i was sickened and scared, full of fear. hear the full interview at 9:30am. and, we are going to get "thunder snow" today, but what is it? carol will tell us just before 9am. hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning. can nutella give you cancer? not according to the manufacturers, who are hitting back at claims that one of the ingredients, palm oil, is cancer—causing. european food experts reckon it might be bad for us, but are they right? do your kids love eating the stuff? we'll have all the details. do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning. use #victorialive. and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. our top story today, the us director of national intelligence has rejected suggestions made by donald trump that official
agencies leaked claims that russia had compromising material on him. in a statement, james clapper said he had called the president—elect to say the information had not come from the security services. our washington correspondent laura bicker has the story. donald trump's not a huge fan of the press corps, but he had a message to send to the media and to us intelligence agencies. he believes they leaked unsubstantiated allegations that his election team colluded with russia. it is all fake news, it is phoney stuff, it didn't happen. there are also claims that russian spies have compiled material to blackmail mr trump, including salacious videos of his private life. does anyone really believe that story? i'm also very much of a germaphobe, by the way, believe me. the bbc understands the russian memos on mr trump were compiled by a former member of m16, christopher steele.
the director of national intelligence, james clapper, has now called the president—elect. he said the leak did not come from within us intelligence, and they have not made anyjudgement that the information is reliable. as donald trump moved the media towards his business dealings, he confirmed he was handing total control of his empire to his two sons. these papers are just some of the many documents that i've signed turning over complete and total control to my sons. that too is proving troublesome. the ethics committee has now said his plan does not meet past presidential standards. this performance was a typically eccentric and bombastic piece of political theatre, which his supporters will love. but it did little to calm the swirl of controversies which surround this president—elect. laura bicker, bbc news, washington. sarah rainsford is following the story for us in moscow.
what does russia say about these sex allegations? russia has dismissed them out right. essentially what we've heard from the kremlin is the spokesman talking about it as "pulp fiction" and a whole series of politicians saying it is anti—russian hysteria. they are suggesting donald trump is coming under pressure from those who don't wa nt under pressure from those who don't want better relations between moscow and washington, that this is all invention, fabrication, utter nonsense. that's the line coming from the kremlin. there has been a lot of focus on this issue, and a lot of focus on this issue, and a lot of focus on this issue, and a lot of focus on the press conference yesterday. people watching for any signals from donald trump about whether his position had changed. people were fairly positive as a result of what he said, they saw him speaking positively of russia and glossing over the negative side of
what he said. which was to say, ok, i want to be friends with vladimir putin, if that's not possible, don't expect me to be soft on him. which is pretty much the message she gave yesterday. is it possible the russians could be behind false sex allegations about mr trump to potentially destabilising ? allegations about mr trump to potentially destabilising? in theory anything is possible, i guess. there are different theories about what russia might have been up to, if anything, in terms of its alleged interference in the campaign. one of the series has always been that president putin and russia wanted donald trump to win and to have an ally in the white house, the other theory has always been that russia simply wanted to mess things up in america, that it wanted to undermine democracy, that it wanted to undermine the liberal system in america, and just wanted to create doubts about the entire liberal democracy of the united states. if
that was the intention, then i suppose you could say that perhaps in some way it has succeeded, at least in throwing the cat amongst the pigeons. thank you. annita is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the day's news. more than 3,000 american troops, tanks, and armoured vehicles arrive in poland today, the united states' biggest military presence in the region since the cold war. it's to support a nato operation to deter any russian aggression towards countries in eastern europe, since the conflict in ukraine and the russian annexation of crimea. the troops‘ arrival comes just days before the inauguration of donald trump, who's signalled he wants to improve relations with moscow. the afghan taliban has released a video of two professors kidnapped in august, in which they plead for donald trump to negotiate their release. it's the first time the australian, timothy weeks, here on the left, and the american, kevin king, have been seen since they were abducted as they left work at the american university in kabul. a number of major retailers have published their sales
figures for the christmas period this morning. m&s reported a 2.3% rise in clothing sales in the 13 weeks to the end of december. food sales were up by 0.6%. meanwhile, tesco says its third quarter sales were up by 1.8%. and john lewis has reported a 2.7% rise in like—for—like sales over the christmas trading period. it seems the any negative story so far this year have been a next dismore report and what we can confirm from asda's performance. overall it seems to be quite robust christmas for everyone. temperatures across the uk are expected to fall over the next couple of days, bringing the possibility of snow in some areas. the met office has issued yellow "be aware" warnings for much of the country.
strong winds are also forecast. in scotland, snow and winds of 70 mph forecast throughout the day. plans for the uk's first hydroelectric tidal lagoon will take a significant step forward today. a report from the former energy minister charles hendy concludes that the technology can deliver a secure supply of clean energy, with swansea bay the front runner for the £1.3 billion project. roger harrabin has more. will this be the uk's latest source of low—carbon energy? the tides in swansea bay are some of the highest in the world, so why not build a seawall to capture the outgoing tide? that is the plan from a private firm. they'll use hydroelectric turbines to generate power, as the water flushes through gaps in the seawall. the cost was thought too high for bill payers to bear. a review says it will need subsidy, but it's not as dear as it looks. if you look at the cost spread over the entire lifetime,
120 years to the project, it comes out at about 30p per household for the next 30 years. that's less than a pint of milk. and that's where i think we can start a new industry, and we can do it at an affordable cost to consumers. supporters hope we will see lagoons dotted around the coasts, that will bring down the cost, they say. but anglers fear the impacts of lagoons on wildlife, and the review advises government to agree terms forjust one of them, and then wait and see. roger harrabin, bbc news. doctors believe they are closer to understanding why chronic stress increases the risk of heart disease and strokes. theirfindings, published in the lancet, suggest that increased activity in the part of the brain which responds to fear and anger prompts the production of extra white blood cells. this can make the formation of blockages in the arteries more likely. the foreign secretary, borisjohnson, willjoin the greek and turkish foreign ministers in geneva for talks on re—unifying cyprus.
the former british colony has been divided since turkish troops invaded more than a0 years ago following a coup by greek cypriots. the united nations says it doesn't expect a deal to be reached this week, only a framework. mrjohnson said he thought a deal was within reach. there's been an increase in the number of hit—and—run incidents in the last year. researchers at leicester university have interviewed hundreds of people who admit they failed to stop after an accident. many say they panicked and fled, while others said they didn't think it was serious enough to report, or didn't realise it was a crime to drive away. we'll be speaking to a woman who has confessed to being a hit and run driver in half an hour. kurdish activists in syria say they have recovered the body of a british fighter from territory controlled by islamic state militants. ryan lock, who was 20 and from chichester, was killed last month during a battle for the is
stronghold of raqqa. the kurds say they now hope to be able to return his body to the uk. that's the latest bbc news. later, is nutella back to you? jerome on twitter says palm oil is cheaper and more addictive than sugar but does it give you cancer? please get in touch with us in the usual ways. if you are texting you will be charged. now some sport. southampton are halfway to wembley. advantage southampton after the first leg of their efl tie with liverpool last night. the goal from their efl tie with liverpool last night. the goalfrom nathan redmond giving them an advantage. it was that poor performance from liverpool, you have to say.
southampton will be frustrated they didn't score more. that poor performance riled managerjurgen klopp. we wait to see who they will face. it could be hull or manchester united in the final. explain why manchester city have been charged over anti—doping rules? manchester city have been charged over anti-doping rules? they have failed to lay out the rules. football clu bs failed to lay out the rules. football clubs have to outline where their players are at all times, be it at home, in hotels if they are travelling for matches, so that the drug travelling for matches, so that the d rug testers travelling for matches, so that the drug testers always know where they are. manchester city have failed to do this on three occasions. it has led to this charge. we wait to see what punishment will come. we think it will be a financial punishment but that depends whether city will appeal and can argue there have been some mitigating circumstances as to why they failed to disclose this
information. we're building up to the australian open, what news of british players? good news that andy murray. he goes into the australian open and will be seeded number one for the first time in his career. novak djokovic is number two. they will be kept apart until the latter stages. a lot of other british players going well, johanna konta faces eugenie bouchard in the sydney international later. she's going well. johanna konta made it through to the semifinals of the australian open last year. dan evans is in third—round action at the moment against dominic thiem. i could see him progress to the semifinals in sydney as well. not such good news for laura robson, she fell at the first round of qualifying for the australian open. she has been struggling with a really bad wrist industry. really difficult times for her. and london welcomes another american sport tonight.
the 02 arena the o2 arena will be sold out later for a regular—season nba game between the indiana pacers and the denver nuggets. interesting but the nba commissioner had to say, he said while they would like to commit to more regular—season games being played in london, he said the brexit vote may lead them to reconsider their long—term commitment to playing games in london. that will be an interesting one to see how that plays out. a packed house at the 02 that plays out. a packed house at the o2 later on. eight days before his inauguration, president—elect donald trump is facing the extraordinary claim that he is vulnerable to blackmail by the russians. it all centres around unsubstantiated allegations which the russians are said to have compiled about his private and professional life. the allegations are contained in a dossier written by a former british spy. speaking in his first press conference for six months, the president—elect suggested the american intelligence agencies
could be responsible for leaking the claims, but overnight the us intelligence chief has denied this. mr trump was openly contemptuous of cnn and buzzfeed, the main us outlets responsible for publicising the sex dossier. let's take a listen. go ahead. mr president—elect. go ahead. mr president-elect, since you are attacking our news organisation... not you, not you. your organisation's terrible. go ahead. quiet. quiet. go ahead, she is asking a question, don't be rude. i am not going to give you a question, you are fake news. i think it was disgraceful, disgraceful, that the intelligence agencies allowed any information that turned out to be so false and fake out. i think it was a disgrace, and that's something that nazi germany would have done and did do.
i think it's a disgrace. i'm also very much of a germophone, by the way, believe me. as far as buzzfeed, which is a failing pile of garbage, writing it, i think they're going to suffer the consequences, they already are. as far as hacking, i think it was russia, but i think we also got hacked by other countries and other people. if putin likes donald trump, guess what, folks, that's called an asset, not a liability. now i don't know that i'm going to get along with vladimir putin. i hope they do, but there's a good chance i won't. and if i don't, do you honestly believe that hillary would be tougher on putin than me? does anybody in this room really believe that? give me a break. we could make deals in russia very easily if we wanted to, i just don't want to, because i think that would be a conflict. so i have no loans, no dealings and no current pending deals. every president since the ‘70s has had a required audit from the irs... oh, gee, i've never heard that(!)
you know, the only one that cares about my tax returns are the reporters. we're going to build a wall. i don't feel like waiting a year, a year and a half, we're going to start building. mexico, in some form, and there are many different forms, will reimburse us. these papers are alljust a piece of the many, many companies that are being put into trust to be run by my two sons, and i hope that the end of eight years i'll come back and i'll say, "oh, you did a good job." otherwise, if they do a bad job, i'll say, "you're fired". goodbye, everybody, goodbye. well, mr trump has been contemptuous about the unsubstantiated allegations, calling them fake news. they've also been dismissed by moscow as pulp fiction. but their significance is that, if true, the president—elect of the united states would be vulnerable to blackmail by the russians. so how did they get leaked? the head of us intelligence, james clapper, has denied that the 35—page dossier
came from his operatives. he's also said that his teams haven't decided yet whether or not the information is reliable. bbc correspondent paul wood says the author of the trump dossier is a british ex—spy called christopher steele he was formerly an m16 officer who worked in moscow. mr steele has now fled his home in surrey and gone into hiding after telling his neighbour to look after his cat. our correspondent says he's highly respected in the intelligence community. that's why the claims in the dossier, although salacious and unverified, were said to taken so seriously by us intelligence and ended up on president obama's desk last week. have a listen to paul wood. well, let's not lose sight of the central allegation here, which is that donald trump, president—elect of the united states, is vulnerable to blackmail by the russians. that is such an extraordinary claim, so much depends on the credibility of the author of this dossier. he has now been named as christopher steele,
a former mi6 agent who was in moscow in the early 1990s. and speaking to one intelligence source, he is apparently very highly regarded among his peers as competent and trustworthy, and that reputation, i think, is one of the main reasons why what he said, the allegations he repeated from russian security officers, were taken so seriously by the american intelligence institutions. i spoke to one intermediary, because you can't speak to cia case officers directly, but i spoke to an intermediary, and a message came back from the people dealing with this file that they found it credible, that there was more than one tape, that there was an audio tape, as well as a video tape, that there were several times that these activities supposedly took place, and in more than one location, notjust the ritz—carlton in moscow, but st petersburg as well. now, the fact that the cia apparently finds these allegations credible, and credible enough to put on president obama's desk, is not them saying they
believe the allegations, they are just saying they are worthy of consideration. one further thing, this former mi6 officer is not the only source. i spoke to a retired spy last august, who said he had been told of the existence of a blackmail tape by the head of an eastern european intelligence agency over the summer. we should stress in all of this these are just allegations, and mr trump is literally correct when he says they are unsubstantiated. nevertheless, americans are in the incredible position, nine days before the inauguration, of having to decide whether their president—elect is a russian agent of influence. paul wood, our correspondent. we're going to talk to some american voters later in the programme, we have fillip from kentucky with us. -- philip. also dr brian klaas, a fellow in politics
at london school of economics, alana horowitz from the huffington post website, and dr leslie vinjamuri, from the think—tank chatham house's america programme. let me start with you, you voted for donald trump a little while ago, do you believe these sex allegations? believe in what allegations? the sex allegations around donald trump. the sex allegations? yes. 0h, allegations around donald trump. the sex allegations? yes. oh, i'm not sure whether or not, i don't know whether there is any group at there, really. so you are not clear? if true, would it be any stew for you that mr trump consorted with prostitutes in a moscow hotel room? —— would it be an issue. prostitutes in a moscow hotel room? -- would it be an issue. it wouldn't bea -- would it be an issue. it wouldn't be a good thing, but there are presidents who have probably done it before. is that a fair point? i think the allegations are deeply troubling, and i don't think we know whether they are true yet. we definitely don't! what i would like to say is, even if you take the
dossier out of this, donald trump la st dossier out of this, donald trump last held a press conference hundreds of days ago, and he invited russia to hack into hillary clinton's e—mails. he also has a campaign manager... so russia does what donald trump says? the point is that the allegations go beyond the dossier, there has been a pattern of behaviour where donald trump has deeply troubling ties to moscow, in the sense that his former campaign manager received kickbacks in eastern ukraine from a pro—russian politician. he says he has no dealings with russia, and there is no way you can be a victim of blackmail because the allegations are not true, they are fake, and business dealings with russia, there are not. this is the crucial point - he's the first candidate since the 19705 not to release his tax returns. he says he is being audited. the head of the irs says he can still release them. every single
candidate since 1970 has done this, so candidate since 1970 has done this, so it is very easily verifiable, he should do it. what do you think? i ee, should do it. what do you think? i agree, i think that, you know, should do it. what do you think? i agree, ithink that, you know, we can't take the dossier at face value. apps it is most troubling... is it not interesting to you that a former british spy wrote it and it ended up on barack obama's desk? as oui’ ended up on barack obama's desk? as our correspondent said, that wouldn't end up on the president's desk unless there is something credible about it. intelligence officials told cnn they feel he is a trustworthy source, so there were these blackmail allegations, and as much as the salacious sex allegations, they are fun to read headlines about, it is only a small piece of the puzzle. just to say, paul wood, our correspondent, says he has been told by an intermediary, not a source at the cia, that there
is more than one tape, this happened not just is more than one tape, this happened notjust in is more than one tape, this happened not just in moscow is more than one tape, this happened notjust in moscow but st petersburg. we still don't really know how credible all this is. but i think it speaks volumes that a lot of voters and experts, you know, believe that it could possibly happen. like, it doesn't seem that out of character based on his other russian ties, based on his behaviour, based on what he has done when he was running for office. i think that speaks a lot to his trustworthiness, his approval rating has tagged in recent days. you are from chatham house, the think tank, how are you reading all of this? my concern, how are you reading all of this? my concern, of how are you reading all of this? my concern, of course we are how are you reading all of this? my concern, of course we are waiting to see, because it is being given a lot of scrutiny, to the veracity of this dossier. but the real concern right now is donald trump's response to it, right? we are looking to see how it, right? we are looking to see how it will affect the next president's relationship with the intelligence agencies — this is not looking good.
how will it affect america's relationship with russia, what are the obligations? i think measuring his response, it was interesting yesterday to watch his interactions with the media, his attacks on the intelligence agencies, in some ways the most deeply troubling thing. he is at war with his own intelligence agencies. the response we would be looking for is that these are very serious allegations, not only the dossier, but the broader question of the disinformation campaign. to me, thatis the disinformation campaign. to me, that is potentially the more troubling part, right? if he was aware of these allegations or engaged with the broader disinformation campaign, the cyber attacks, the hacking, then we have a very serious national security problem on our hands. so where does it go from here? there are senators likejohn mccain, it go from here? there are senators like john mccain, republican, it go from here? there are senators likejohn mccain, republican, no fan of donald trump, talking about hearing is with the intelligence agencies about the claims, possible
impeachment — this is before he is inaugurated! the timing is difficult. bearing in mind this has been framed as the worst kept secret in washington, plenty of people have seen this dossier, it is not new news for people in think tanks and elsewhere. there is a sense that it needed to be dealt with, but the timing is very difficult, because this is at the same time, yesterday was quite extraordinary, rex tillerson, secretary of state, at the same time as the news conference. explain the significance of that. one is going back and forth between tillerson discussing the future of us engagement with russia, being as clear questions, would he stick to sanctions? at the same time as the president—elect is being forced to respond to questions about whether he himself was engaged and had knowledge of russia's attempts to hack into and influence the us elections. so those are, you know,
contingencies, right? they are developments that affect each other. tillerson, you know, said very clearly that his view would be that we should stick to the status quo until there is a more competent of strategy for the us relationship with russia. as a voter, philip, do you want to see donald trump's tax returns ? you want to see donald trump's tax returns? 1 don't know it sadly what we would get out a bit. it would probably clear up a few things for people if he would satisfy a few people, if he would show them. are you interested in an explanation as to why he has not so far, or does it not bother you? i mean, i'm not too worried about it, i figure somewhere along the line he will eventually have to show them. but i don't think it is that big a deal to me. where are you on relations between the us and russia ? are you on relations between the us and russia? we had donald trump in at press conference, if i get on
with putin, that is an asset, he is right, isn't he? i don't think so, because the reason that the us and russia are not friends is because russian foreign policy is predicated on undermining liberal western democracy on the global stage. but they might perhaps change his approach? i think that is a very naive assessment, because every president that has and estimated vladimir putin on the global stage has been outfoxed by him, and it is something where he is an authoritarian thugs, and at some point we have to acknowledge that american values do not correspond with russian values on the global stage. that foreign policy disconnect exists for a reason. i think it is the bleak troubling that tillerson, the secretary of state nominee, was awarded the highest civilian honour by vladimir putin. even outside this dossier, even if all these claims are false, daddy bleak troubling allegations about the ties between the soon be most powerful man in the western world, the linchpin of western liberal democracy, and how much he's willing
to do to get along with vladimir putin. will he say that the invasion of ukraine and the crimea, you are going to get a free pass? you are going to get a free pass? you are going to get a free pass? you are going to get a free pass for trying to influence american voting? those things are troubling, and that some point you have to say now.|j completely agree with that, we have much more to lose than to gain with them becoming chums. i think trump is very vulnerable to, you know, being influenced, he has proven himself to be very gullible, the conspiracies that he has brought up over he is — i mean, one point that people brought up yesterday is that he is attacking the media for bringing up unverified claims, but he is the one who first started bringing up the idea that obama was not born in the us. really, that was the most unverified claim that i can think of in modern politics. a quick final thought from you, should buzzfeed have published a dossier
with unverifiable, and there and unverifiable claims, with a warning saying, we seriously doubt these allegations are true? personally, i wouldn't have, i understand the logic as to why they did, which is, well, we have the report that there was this dossier, people are going to debate it, they have the right to know what they are debating. i probably wouldn't have, but i understand why they did. thank you for, another programme. we'll put your questions on the row over trump's alleged links to moscow to our diplomatic correspondence paul adams. paul has the knowledge of christopher steele, the british spyr of christopher steele, the british spy, former british spy i should say, who wrote this dossier which ended up on president obama's desk last week. still to come, we'll hear from a mum of two, who,
driving while drunk, hit and injured a cyclist. she pleaded guilty to drink driving and leaving the scene of an accident. foreign secretary borisjohnson flies out to join greece and turkey in landmark talks to reunify the divided island of cyprus. we speak to a greek and a turkish cypriot about how the split has affected them. here's annita in the bbc newsroom with a summary of todays news. the us director of national intelligence has rejected suggestions made by donald trump that official intelligence agencies leaked claims that russia had compromising material on him. in a statement, james clapper said he had called the president—elect to say the information had not come from the security services. the huffington post so there is an
issue with donald trump and many us citizens. we still don't know how many credible this is. i think it speaks volumes that a lot of voters and experts believe it could possibly happen. it doesn't seem that out of character based on his other russia ties, based on his behaviour. more than 3,000 american troops, tanks, and armoured vehicles arrive in poland today, the united states' biggest military presence in the region since the cold war. it's to support a nato operation to deter any russian aggression towards countries in eastern europe, since the conflict in ukraine and the russian annexation of crimea. the troops arrival comes just days before the inauguration of donald trump, who's signalled he wants to improve relations with moscow. a number of major retailers have published their sales figures for the christmas period this morning. m&s reported a 2.3% rise in clothing sales in the 13 weeks to the end of december. food sales were up by 0.6%. meanwhile, tesco says its third quarter sales were up by 1.8%. and, john lewis has reported a 2.7%
rise in like—for—like sales over the christmas trading period. temperatures across the uk are expected to fall over the next couple of days, bringing the possibility of snow in many areas. the met office has issued yellow "be aware" warnings for much of the country. in scotland, travellers face another day of wintry weather conditions with snow and winds up to 70mph forecast throughout the day. plans for the uk's first hydro—electric tidal lagoon will take a significant step forward today. a report from the former energy minister charles hendy concludes that the technology can deliver a secure supply of clean energy, with swansea bay the front runner for the £1.3 billion project. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 10:00am. here's some sport now withjohn watson. southampton are a step closer to wembley. they beat liverpool 1—0 in the first leg of the efl cup semi—final last night, nathan redmond with the goal.
the return leg is at anfield is in a fortnight‘s time. manchester city have been charged by the football association, for breaching anti—doping rules. clubs must supply information about the whereabouts of their players so that drug testers know where they are, but the club failed to do so on three occasions, having failed to update training details when schedules changed. england captain alastair cook will meet director of cricket andrew strauss on friday, but no decision on his role as skipper is expected to be made. england lost their recent series against india 4—0. andy murray is in melbourne, ahead of the australian open draw which takes place in the early hours of friday morning. the tournament starts on monday. laura robson and tara moore won't be in the draw, they lost their qualifying matches. more sport at 10am. you may have
heard, in britain today we are going to get thunder snow and carol is going to explain what thunder snow is and how it's going to affect you and which parts of britain. hitand run hit and run driver cause more than 17,000 crashes every year, more than one in ten of road accidents where someone is injured. but what makes people leave the scene of an accident? criminology is in leicester have interviewed hundreds of people who admit they failed to stop after an accident. many say they panicked and fled or were drunk. alarmingly, others said they didn't think it was serious enough to report, or didn't realise it was a crime to leave the scene of an accident. we can speak to sarah who hit and injured a cyclist while driving drunk in 2014. she pleaded guilty to drink—driving and leaving the scene of the accident. sarah isn't your real name, you've asked us
isn't your real name, you've asked us to change it because you are now trying to rebuild your life. i wonder if you could take us back to the day of the crash and what happened. i remember buying alcohol, and receiving a phone call from my partner who was in hospital at the time, saying he could receive visitors. i remember walking to my carand visitors. i remember walking to my car and then visitors. i remember walking to my carand theni visitors. i remember walking to my car and then i have no recollection of the 35 mile drive, until i came to in my car with the wind screen smashed in. i instantly knew i had beenin smashed in. i instantly knew i had been in an accident. how much had you drunk before you got in the car? i would approximate between a half and a full bottle of vodka. ok. this was because you had a relapse because you are an alcoholic?” was because you had a relapse because you are an alcoholic? i am an alcoholic, yes. you had a number of years sober and this was a relapse that summer. yes. you
blacked out, as you say, and what you remember is effectively waking up you remember is effectively waking up and being pulled out of your own car with the windscreen smashed, by a police officer. yes. when did you realise you'd hit a cyclist? 15 seconds before the police man came, andi seconds before the police man came, and i saw the carnage, then he came, pulled me out and told me what! and i saw the carnage, then he came, pulled me out and told me what i had done. how did you respond to that? i was sickened and scared, full of fear. he told me straightaway that luckily he was ok and was going to survive, but he was very cross, the policeman was extremely cross. and i can understand that. how did you know he was cross with you? his voice, the way he extracted me from the car. i'm not saying what he did
was wrong in any way. he was doing hisjob. but i knew what was wrong in any way. he was doing his job. but i knew what! was wrong in any way. he was doing hisjob. but i knew what i had done was serious. how drunk were you when he pulled you out? berry. -- very. i can recall the moment when he pulled me from the car but i don't recall being taken to the police station, i was ina being taken to the police station, i was in a poor emotional state to be interviewed, so they took me back to the hospital to have me observed overnight. they were worried about my mental state. can you tell us, presumably from what you learned subsequently, the circumstances of the accident? where is the cyclist in relation to your car?|j the accident? where is the cyclist in relation to your car? i have no idea butjudging from the damage of my car, i hit him head—on. when i saw my car a couple of days later, it made me physically sick to see
the damage that had been done. he must have hit me head on, gone straight into the bonnet, hit the windscreen, and his bicycle went down the side of the car. what with the nature of his injuries? he had a broken collarbone, three broken fingers and a deep cut to his leg. that police officer was right. that quy that police officer was right. that guy was lucky to be alive. extremely lucky. is where you, potentially. yes. goodness. he went to court, pleaded guilty to drink—driving and leaving the scene of an accident. you clearly accepted what you did was wrong. i did. you clearly accepted what you did was wrong. idid. idid, there you clearly accepted what you did was wrong. i did. i did, there was no, although i have no memory or recollection, there were witnesses who saw what i did that. i accepted the responsibility. what do you mean that you have no memory of it?|j
don't know whether! that you have no memory of it?|j don't know whether i was blacked out or asleep. i used to think an alcoholic blackout was when you just crashed out and went to sleep, but now i know it's where you actually continue to operate and function, but you have no awareness of what you're doing. idon't know how i managed to drive that distance.‘ miles. from bury st edmunds to cambridge. 1 have no idea how i did it. did you technically leave the scene of the accident?” it. did you technically leave the scene of the accident? i pleaded guilty to that crime, the policeman told me that is what! guilty to that crime, the policeman told me that is what i had done, so i accepted it. told me that is what i had done, so iaccepted it. on told me that is what i had done, so i accepted it. on the advice of a friend who was a solicitor, they saidi friend who was a solicitor, they said i could have fought that because of the distance that i had travelled. as far as i was concerned, no, i was travelled. as far as i was concerned, no, iwas responsible, i did itand concerned, no, iwas responsible, i did it and i pleaded guilty. you received a one—year driving ban, a £500 fine and a 110 hours community
service. what did you think of that punishment? very lenient. very lenient for what! punishment? very lenient. very lenient for what i had done. potentially i could have killed him. killed myself. destroyed families, his family, his career. idon't know what his career was, but he had broken fingers. if he was a surgeon, or someone who used his hands, that may have destroyed his career. so i felt that the sentence i was given was very lenient. had you been sent to prison, for example, you would have lost your home potentially, your job, have lost your home potentially, yourjob, possibly your children. how many children do you have? two. you've never met the minute it. he wrote him a letter. what did you say? i wrote him a letter. what did you say? 1 expressed my remorse, i explained my situation, not that thatis explained my situation, not that that is any excuse. that you are an
alcoholic? yes. it is no excuse, but i wanted him to know that i was sorry and i was very remorseful for what i had done. did you receive a reply? no. did you expect to? no. if you met him now what would you say? i would ask his forgiveness. i'm not sure whether! i would ask his forgiveness. i'm not sure whether i would receive it. but there's nothing that i can say or do that can change my past behaviour. i would really want him to know that i am sorry for what! would really want him to know that i am sorry for what i did, and i have put things in place that it won't happen again. do you live with the guilt, or have you found a way of managing it? i've found a way of managing it? i've found a way of managing the guilt. what is that? in
the summer of 20151 managing the guilt. what is that? in the summer of 2015 i went into a rehab centre, which led me to a 12 step fellowship, where i've worked the 12 steps of recovery. in that, you deal with, you learn how to deal with guilt, shame, anger, hate, remorse. with the help of my sponsor we'd been through that and she has given me the emotional tools i need to deal with issues like this, when i come up. if i was to let it enveloped me, it would destroy me. if that happens then i go backwards andi if that happens then i go backwards and i can't move forwards. how long have you been sober this time?- months. you took part in a study by leicester university looking at why people commit hit and runs. some people commit hit and runs. some people were drunk, others made a calculated decision to drive away. or, theyjust didn't think it was a
particularly serious crime, or they panic. what do you think of those explanations? i think that, panic. what do you think of those explanations? ithink that, looking at it, i should imagine fear is one of the biggest things that would make someone leave the scene. it's fear of the consequences, if they have been drinking, or they are illegal, the consequences are going to be harsh. they will be taken to court. i believe, obviously they should stay and face the consequences, because they have committed a crime, as i did. it's fear on their part or panic, but that doesn't make it right. thank you very much for talking to us, sarah. coming up, coronation street star simon gregson reveals his wife emma has suffered 11 miscarriages, as he hits back at trolls criticising his corrie storyline. as a popular holiday destination, it's easy to forget that
cyprus has been a divided country for more than 40 years. when turkey launched a military invasion on the island in 1974, it split into the turkish north and the greek south. over the years there have been efforts to reunite the island, but no agreement has ever been reached. but there's hope that fresh talks in geneva could be more successful. so how did we get here? the bbc‘s paul adam explains. cyprus has been politically divided for half a century, and physically divided since 1974. that's when turkey launched an invasion. it said it had no choice, it was there to protect the small turkish cypriot minority. there had just been a coup by the larger greek cypriot community, inspired by athens, with the express aim of uniting cyprus with greece. thousands of people were killed, and as many as 200,000 people, from the north and the south, were displaced. people lost their homes, they lost their businesses. the un was called in to patrol the so—called green line, which divided the island into two parts, and it's stayed that way ever since. two united nations tanks moved in to disperse the crowd... why should we care?
well, you have to remember that cyprus is a member of the european union, and, clearly, a member that is divided, in the way that cyprus is, is always going to be a problem. there does seem to be quite a bit of optimism that a deal is finally possible to resolve this long conflict. this is going to be difficult, and it's possible. it's going to be difficult because obviously even if the majority of issues have been solved in all chapters, it is not the easiest questions that we have left at the end. it has to be said — we have been here before. there was a referendum on a peace deal back in 2004. this is going to be difficult, and it's possible. the turkish cypriots agreed to it, the greek cypriots said no. so there's been a lot more diplomacy, particularly in the last few months, and, crucially, the turkish president, president erdogan, also seems to favour a settlement. so the omens do seem better than they've been for quite a long time. let's talk now to greek cypriots elaine tofaris
and christos karaolis, both of their families are originally from the northern part of the island. we also have onur ibrahim and hasan raif, who are both turkish cypriots. and dr rebecca bryant, from the london school of economics' europe institute, joins us from cyprus. christos, tell our british audience how this split affected your dad in terms of his home. so my dad is from is from the northern part of the island, and he was a wee here in the 19705 island, and he was a wee here in the 1970s to set up greek schools, and following the invasion he was not able to return to his home in morphou. he couldn't get access to it. what do you mean? following the invasion, there was the establishment of the green line, and my father was not able to get access to his property in morphou, likewise his sister gave birth to my cousin
on the 22nd ofjuly1974, two days after the invasion, in morphou. she packed in some photo albums, suitcases, got in her car with their husband, and just drove south. so for my dad and his family, and my mum's family, it is a really tragic story of picking up what you can and leaving, just fleeing south. just explain, people want to learn more, because as the talks are going on, why did she drive south? why couldn't she stay? the turkish army was advancing from the northern part of the island, there is about 40 kilometres between turkey and cyprus, the army was advancing north, and so for her it was a question of picking up what you can get and driving south. she was worried for her safety, she had a newborn child, get out as quick as you can. onur, yourfamily and turkish cypriots, tell us what
happened back in 1974, how it affected your family. so my father was made a refugee in the 19605, so previous 21974, there was another civil uprising that led to the situation. —— previous to. they will force to leave their village on the eastern side of the mountains and lived as refugees until the beginning of the 19705, when my father decided he wanted to educate himself. he managed to work at a beach bar and save the money to come to london, he enrolled in a college and gota to london, he enrolled in a college and got a degree in electrical engineering. he began his career with the ambition of going back to cyprus, to live and work in cyprus, but he was not able to do that. explain why. the situation in 1974 was very complicated. go is subsequently, why couldn't he go
back? as a community, we were stronger together before 1974. post-1974, stronger together before 1974. post—1974, the division lead to more thanjust a post—1974, the division lead to more than just a geographic division, it was a cultural division between two people of the same culture, very similar. we're much more similar than we are different. would you agree with that, elaine?” than we are different. would you agree with that, elaine? i think turkish cypriots and greek cypriots are very turkish cypriots and greek cypriots are very similar. more similar than different? my father left cyprus in 1955, and here are members working alongside turkish cypriots, so he was not really involved in trouble in that sense. but i mean, the war that happened in 1974, it has often been described in the media as being almost amicable, drifting separately, the greeks going south, the turks going north. and actually it was a very brutal time, a very terrible time. as christos hasjust described, tell us about your
family. i was born here, but it is an overriding memory, i remember the frantic worry, nobody knew where anybody was, our family literally packed, they didn't even have time to ta ke packed, they didn't even have time to take photos, they literally fled for their lives, people were dropping out of the sky, you know, armed soldiers and bombs. and they left in literally what they had on. so as! left in literally what they had on. so as i understand it, you have the deeds to land that your family owned before they had to flee. why can't you reclaim that? my grandfather was an orphan, he had nine children, and he worked really hard to try to get land so that his children would have some land, as was the way at that time. and it was occupied, and my family, when they fled, they scattered, they dispersed, the whole family, it took away our whole kind of culture and heritage, really, because we were never able to go
back. that land was occupied. i mean, so... sorry, so if there is justice from these talks, that land should be given back to your family? well, that would be my idea, the original deed owners should be returned to the land, but it goes beyond financial gain. it is a lost history and culture. i have angles and aunties living alone in high—rise flats, but they should be living in their community. i am high—rise flats, but they should be living in their community. 1am not saying that time would have stood still. i understand that. hasan, what are your hopes for these talks in the future? you don't want to ask me the history, then? no, go for it. well, i believe the whole story started just after the cypriots republic fell. you know what? i don't want to go to far back, since 1974, the impact on your family, what do you hope from these talks?
well, we had to move from south to north, i stayed three is and then came back to england. —— three years. i came back to england. —— three years. lam came back to england. —— three years. i am very hopeful for these talks, and hopefully it is going to be sorted out, so we can find a solution. but what about land, property, homes? you know, are people going to be poring over maps to draw lines and borders? what do you think? i think we have representatives that we trust, that we have voted in democratically to represent us on both sides. and as a nation, we have to think about the young people that are coming next. the future generations of a lack of jobs, a lack of infrastructure, and a non—stable financial system. jobs, a lack of infrastructure, and a non-stable financial system. is that because of the divide? we have
a private banking system european banking in the south. we have mixed feelings about transport and travel. we have people migrating from north to south and south to north to work. there is a lot going on. rebecca adams,, sorry, there is a lot going on. rebecca adams, , sorry, rebecca there is a lot going on. rebecca adams,, sorry, rebecca bryant, from the london school of economics, you are in cyprus, in terms of unifying this land, what are the prospects through these peace talks in geneva? well, with these particular peace talks, it is hard to say. i would say that right now the mood in cyprus, where i happen to be for some research right now, is subdued optimism. people want something to happen, but cypriots have gone through so many rounds of negotiations, over so many years, that there is a type of exhaustion.
so even though people are obsessively following the negotiations that are going on in geneva right now, people are not entirely sure whether they can hope for it or not. can i ask you, rebecca, what are the issues? ifeel like i am honing in on property, thousands of people lost homes, is it about territory, boundaries, land? governance, security. yes, the main sticking point is that, and pa rt main sticking point is that, and part of the reason the main sticking point is that, well, two reasons — one is the complications of what has happened to the land of displaced persons since 1974, particularly in the north, the way that the land was distributed first two displaced turkish cypriots, and later to non—displaced turkish cypriots, and also people coming from turkey. and the way that the land has been developed since then has created an
incredibly complicated system that is very difficult to unravel. and so how that is going to happen is something that is still really up in the air. it is not entirely clear yet what the mechanisms will be for resolving the property issue. that thenis resolving the property issue. that then is tied up with issues of return — in other words, people may be able to reclaim their property but not necessarily go back to it. or people may be compensated for it and so on. and it is also tied up with issues of territory, as you say, because for example, yesterday, last night, the two teams, the two leaders presented maps to the united nations of how they are going to reduce the amount of territory in the turkish cypriot constituent state. these were two competing maps, they had agreed at the end of
2016 of the percentage of land that each would present on their maps, how much land would belong to the turkish cypriot state after a solution — those maps were put under lock and key by the united nations, but they became the key to the conference that is going on today.” am going to pause there, rebecca, thank you very much, i appreciate yourtime, a lane, thank you very much, i appreciate your time, a lane, christos, thank you very much, i appreciate yourtime, a lane, christos, hasan, onur. thank you very much. —— he —— elaine. the latest news and sport in just a moment, excuse me, thank you very much. we are going to get thundersnow, people are excited about this, including carol, what is thundersnow? thunderstorms happen all the time and all over the world as well.
normally, thunderstorms come out of a cumulonimbus cloud, a lot going on inside the clouds, and as they fall into milder conditions, the atmosphere, you will find they fall as rain. but if it is colder at surface level, they fall as snow, so thatis surface level, they fall as snow, so that is essentially thundersnow. but they do create some fabulous displays, because they reflect the snow, and nick miller will be talking about it later in the programme, explaining what happens inside a cumulonimbus cloud, easy for you to say! thank you very much, see you later. today what we have got is quite a bit of snow, and you can see from these lovely pictures, we have seen it through the course of this morning. this was taken earlier on in the highlands, and we have got another one as well, lovely sunrise, lying snow in aberdeenshire, and another one in south lanarkshire. aberdeenshire, and another one in south la narkshire. so aberdeenshire, and another one in south lanarkshire. so there is some snow around. the snow was largely
across the northern half of the uk, and it is snow showers, and to the squeezing of those isobars, it is also very windy, so there will be blizzards on the hills. further south, we have rain coming in curtis of this area of low pressure. —— courtesy. at the moment, we have got mild south—westerly winds, later the wind of years to more of a northwesterly, which is a cold direction, and then we will start to see some sleet and snow in the forecast. this morning, snow showers across covered, northern england, northern ireland, some of the heavier showers there, a lot of it in the hills of wales. a lot of rain, actually, there could be some issues with flooding on the roads, surface water flooding, that is. a cold day in prospect, when you add on the effects of the wind, it will feel even colder, that is the wind
chill. as we head to the evening and overnight, we carry on with the showers, through the afternoon as well, across northern ireland, across scotland too. then there is a risk of ice, as we have got this morning, the same across northern england, in between dry conditions. for the rush hour, we are looking at a snow showers across parts of wales, trying up across the south—west, and then we run into this rain falling as sleet and snow, particularly over the hills, but we could see some at lower levels. into the evening, there it goes, pushing down to east anglia and into care. behind that, we are looking at a risk of ice, so take care if you are travelling. now, through the evening and overnight, you can see what is happening, snow showers around, then this band coming across scotland, moving eventually into northern england. snow showers across northern ireland, wales, the south—west. this will continue to push southwestwards, getting into the north midlands and north wales
by the end of the night. ahead of it cold, but at this stage dry. picking this up for tomorrow morning's rush—hour, it will continue south, pushing across the london area, east anglia and kent before it clears away. then a lot of dry weather, a bit of sunshine, still chilly in the wind, a peppering of showers, wintry in nature, out towards the north and west. down the east coast, gales through the north sea, whipping up some large waves. that will also coincide with the spring tides, so there is the risk of some coastal flooding across parts of the east coast of england. the other thing is that there are also going to be wintry showers. hello it's thursday, it's 10 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. our top story, a former british spy is now at the heart of the story about claims — ferociously rubbished by donald trump — that in moscow in 2013 mr trump fraternised with prostitutes on a bed previously used by president obama. all fake news, it's phoney stuff, it
didn't happen, and it was gotten by opponents of hours. they at that nonsense that was released by, maybe the intelligence agencies, who knows? but maybe the intelligence agencies. but america's intelligence chief tells mr trump he doesn't believe his colleagues leaked the allegations. coronation street star simon gregson — steve mcdonald in the soap — reveals his wife emma has experienced 11 miscarriages as he hits back at trolls criticising his corrie storyline. nutella makers fight back after claims that palm oil, one of its ingredients, causes cancer. what do you think — does that make you think
twice about eating it? good morning. here's anita in the bbc newsroom with a summary of today's news. in the past few minutes new figures have been released showing the continuing pressure on the nhs in england. monthly performance data for november shows key targets continue to be missed. these include the 62 day target for cancer treatment to start and the 18 weeks target for routine operations. victoria will have more on this story in the next half an hour. the us director of national intelligence has rejected suggestions made by donald trump that official intelligence agencies leaked claims that russia had compromising material on him. in a statement, james clapper said he had called the president—elect to say the information had not come from the security services. and at 12:30pm on the bbc news channel, i'll be
putting your questions on the political row over trump's alleged links to moscow to our diplomatic correspondent paul adams. please get in touch with us to ask those questions. you can text us or send an email or contact us via twitter using the hashtag #bbcaskthis. more than 3,000 american troops, tanks, and armoured vehicles are arriving in poland this morning — the united states' biggest military presence in the region since the cold war. it's to support a nato operation to deter any russian aggression towards countries in eastern europe — since the conflict in ukraine and the russian annexation of crimea. the troops arrival comes just days before the inauguration of donald trump, who's signalled he wants to improve relations with moscow. a number of major retailers have published their sales figures for the christmas period this morning. m & s reported a 2.3% rise in clothing sales in the 13 weeks to the end of december. food sales were up by 0.6%. meanwhile, tesco says its third quarter sales were up by 1.8%. and, john lewis has reported a 2.7%
rise in like—for—like sales over the christmas trading period. we've had some quite robust figures across the board. it seems the only negative story so far this year have been a next, with a dismal report, and what we can confirm from asda's performance. overall, it seems to be quite a robust christmas for everyone. there's been an increase in the number of hit and run incidents in the last year. researchers at leicester university have interviewed hundreds of people who admit they failed to stop after an accident. many say they panicked and fled while others said they didn't think it was serious enough to report or didn't realise it was a crime to drive away. one woman who drove after drinking heavily told victoria she hit a cyclist and left the scene. potentially i could have killed him,
killed myself, destroyed families. temperatures across the uk are expected to fall over the next couple of days, bringing the possibility of snow in many areas. the met office has issued yellow "be aware" warnings for much of the country. in scotland, travellers face another day of wintry weather conditions with snow and winds up to 70mph forecast throughout the day. plans for the uk's first hydro—electric tidal lagoon will take a significant step forward today. a report from the former energy minister charles hendy concludes that the technology can deliver a secure supply of clean energy, with swansea bay the front runner for the £1.3 billion project. that's a summary of the latest bbc news, more at 10.30. thank you for your comments on the interview with the hit and run driver, sarah, not her real name. john e—mailed, in 20151
driver, sarah, not her real name. john e—mailed, in 2015! hit a pedestrian walking in the road in the early hours of the morning. the pedestrian had been drinking. 1 wasn't charged with the accident because it wasn't my fault. but my first thought after hitting the pedestrian was to run. i didn't, but it was my first thought. the pedestrian survived and made a full recovery. i still have flashbacks and nightmares. another viewer says, is your hit and run driver expecting sympathy? a tweet, the punishment for the crime of the hit and run driver was ridiculous and i'm glad she knows it. another viewer says, i'm shocked at the leniency of the sentence for what that woman did. do get in touch with us throughout the morning use the hashtag #victorialive. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. we try to read as many comments as we can, particularly if you have got pertinent experience. here's some sport now withjohn watson, and news of a good night for southampton.
southampton are a step closer to wembley. they beat liverpool 1—0 in the first leg of the efl cup semi—final last night, nathan redmond with the goal. in reality, it should have been more for southampton. it was a poor liverpool performance, one that left jurgen klopp frustrated. the return leg is at anfield is in a fortnight‘s time. if you want two disappointed managers after the game, won because they lost, one because they only lost 1—0 and has to go to anfield. we will strike back, we will be a different team. we will be different everything. for us it's still possible to go to wembley. we kept clean sheet, we can do a good performance with the ball. i think it's... performance with the ball. i think it'5... at performance with the ball. i think it's... at the end of the game, with just this win, with one goal up. manchester city have been charged
by the football association, for breaching anti—doping rules. clubs must supply information about the whereabouts of their players so that drug testers know where they are, but the club failed to do so on three occasions, having failed to update training details when schedules changed. it is thought they will be handed a fine rather than a sporting sanction. england captain alastair cook will meet director of cricket andrew strauss on friday, but no decision on his role as skipper is expected to be made. it is thought there is no pressure to make any decision. england lost their recent series against india 4—0. andy murray is in melbourne, ahead of the australian open draw which takes place in the early hours of friday morning. it'll be the first time in his career that andy murray has been the top seed at a grand slam. the tournament starts on monday. laura robson and tara moore won't be in the draw, they lost their qualifying matches. going well at the moment is british
number three dan evans who is through to a world tour semifinal for the first time in his career. he produced a stunning comeback to beat dominic thiem in the sydney international. johanna konta faces eugenie bouchard next. and nba basketball returns to london this evening. the denver nuggets are taking on the indiana pacers at a sell—out o2 arena. the nba global games london is celebrating its 10th season in the capital. they'll be excited about being here in london. it's a unique experience that them. of course they travel a lot throughout the united states and a bit to canada, but the most part all of our games are on the continental united states. they are going to treat this as a deal for them. the nba commissioner speaking there. more sport at 10:30am. with top line involving former british spy now
at the centre of the story. he is now in hiding. our correspondence says christopher steele fled his home in surrey either yesterday or the day before after asking his neighbour to look after asking his neighbour to look after his cat. the dossier contains unsubstantiated claims that mr trump watched prostitutes defile a bed in a moscow hotel room that the obamas had previously slept in. a furious donald trump singled out cnn and buzzfeed, the main us out that is responsible for publicising the report, he also took a swipe at the bbc. go ahead. mr president—elect. mr president—elect, since you are attacking our news organisation... not you, not you. your organisation's terrible. go ahead. quiet. go ahead, she is asking a question, don't be rude. i am not going to give you a question, you are fake news.
bbc news, that's another beauty. i think it was disgraceful, disgraceful, that the intelligence agencies allowed any information that turned out to be so false and fake out. i think it was a disgrace, and that's something that nazi germany would have done and did do. i think it's a disgrace. i'm also very much of a germophone, by the way, believe me. as far as buzzfeed, which is a failing pile of garbage, writing it, i think they're going to suffer the consequences, they already are. as far as hacking, i think it was russia, but i think we also got hacked by other countries and other people. if putin likes donald trump, guess what, folks, that's called an asset, not a liability. now i don't know that i'm going to get along with vladimir putin. i hope they do, but there's a good chance i won't. and if i don't, do you honestly believe that hillary would be tougher on putin than me? does anybody in this room really believe that?
give me a break. we could make deals in russia very easily if we wanted to, i just don't want to, because i think that would be a conflict. so i have no loans, no dealings and no current pending deals. every president since the 705 has had a required audit from the irs... oh, gee, i've never heard that(!) you know, the only one that cares about my tax returns are the reporters. we're going to build a wall. i don't feel like waiting a year, a year and a half, we're going to start building. mexico, in some form, and there are many different forms, will reimburse us. these papers are alljust a piece of the many, many companies that are being put into trust to be run by my two sons, and i hope that the end of eight years i'll come back and i'll say, "oh, you did a good job." otherwise, if they do a bad job, i'll say, "you're fired". goodbye, everybody, goodbye. we'd be interested to know if you
believe the sex allegations. let me know if you think buzzfeed should have published the dossier when it is unverified and unverifiable. even they said, we doubt these allegations are true. let's talk to our security correspondent frank gardner. who is christopher steele and why is he now at the centre of this story? you could not make up a more salacious, more fascinating story of sex, of intrigue, of political machinations than this one. and trying to find out what is true and what isn't is quite difficult. but it's fascinating. christopher steele isa it's fascinating. christopher steele is a former intelligence officer. he a former officerfor the is a former intelligence officer. he a former officer for the secret intelligence service, better known as m16. he wasn't an agent, he was an officer. he would have operated as an intelligence gatherer for britain's overseas intelligence arm.
he has worked for something called orbis which is a business intelligence firm in britain. he is the author of a 35 page dossier which was compiled last year and which was compiled last year and which he thought contained or said contained such scurrilous details about president trump that he handed it to the fbi in august. he was allegedly hired by trump's opponents to compile this. in america? in america. well, the allegations in this, and it has been published, by the way, not by the intelligence agencies who have lea ked intelligence agencies who have leaked this, but it has leaked out. 35 pages of this, and i think you alluded to it, some pretty salacious details about goings—on in a moscow hotel room. i don't know if you ever
saw the film from russia with love? it bears a striking similarity to the fake glass, filming somebody‘s sexual activities from behind a two—way mirror. there is all of this involved, donald trump has said it is nonsense, fake news. last night, an e—mail when is nonsense, fake news. last night, an e—mailwhen turan is nonsense, fake news. last night, an e—mail when turan from the directorate of national intelligence in washington, going around to all the journalists, in washington, going around to all thejournalists, saying, we did not lea k thejournalists, saying, we did not leak this, we briefed the president—elect, we have briefed the fbi, we have talked to the president, and we did not leak it. if us intelligence agencies are briefing the president, barack obama, the president—elect, donald trump, the fbi, does that mean... what does it mean? what is the significance of that? if it is fake, why would a bland barack obama's
desk? that is a very good point. once was handed to the fbi and was assessed in august, it started to get taken seriously, because i suspect there are elements of it that are true, and elements which are not. there are some misspellings of names, which are causing people to say, well, hang on. people, my collea g u es to say, well, hang on. people, my colleagues have spoken to them, they have said christopher steele is a serious player, you know, a respected intelligence officer, and like many of them, they start second careers at the age of about 50. they leave m16 or m15, or wherever they are working, the cia and the fbi, and they start working for more money with more freedom, working for business intelligence, and he is one of those. it is unusual, i have to say, for someone to be so involved in politics, because obviously the intelligence officers have to be com pletely intelligence officers have to be completely apolitical. but he is in the private sector, probably there
was a the private sector, probably there wasafair the private sector, probably there was a fair bit of money involved. the russians are delighted that this is being denied by... —— denied by trump, and one of their organisations as retweeted what trump has been saying. the allegations are that russians have kompromat, compromising material on donald trump. it involves a tape, details of basically they hold they have got over him. you can see that, given that this guy in less than ten days, is about to have access to the nuclear codes, he is about to be the most powerful man in the world, if there was any truth in this, is it in america's interest for another power, which could possibly come into conflict with the united states one day, we hope that, is it in the us interest for them to have compromising material? of course not, so they have got to look into it. they have got to alert the
people concerned. but so far, the directorate of national intelligence in the us has not said if they think any of this is true or not. ok, thank you very much. thank you, frank gardner, our security correspondent. so what about americans who voted for donald trump? i asked two of them, amanda head in california and alex chalgran in colombia, if they believe the claims published by buzzfeed about mr trump fraternising with prostitutes in a moscow hotel as they defiled a bed slept in by the obamas. i believe this is about as much as i could throw a volkswagen. about as much as you could do what?! throw a volkswagen! what does that mean? i can't throw a volkswagen very far! you mean literally! sorry, 0k, very far! you mean literally! sorry, ok, i very far! you mean literally! sorry, ok, 1am very far! you mean literally! sorry, ok, i am being very far! you mean literally! sorry, ok, 1am being really thick! something that wouldn't happen in real life! alex, let me ask you, do
you believe the claims in this apparent intelligence dossier? absolutely not, i agree with amanda, andl absolutely not, i agree with amanda, and i think that these allegations, that are completely unsubstantiated, could be borderline seditious almost, because they are assuming that our president—elect, the future president of the united states, has ties with russia, and that isjust, wow, unbelievable. i mean, yeah, it is dangerous dog. ijust wow, unbelievable. i mean, yeah, it is dangerous dog. i just want to add that buzzfeed sent out a memo to their employees, admitting there was no fact checking or cross sourcing, and they said, and i quote, we have serious reason to doubt the allegations, but they chose to publish it anyway. the latter half of that... publish it anyway. the latter half of that. .. they need to cut them
off. you are right, the editor in chief said there are serious reasons to doubt the allegations, but it is not true to say that they had not tried to verify them for a number of weeks — they have tried and failed and took the decision to publish. so you should go ahead and publish it? that is not journalistic you should go ahead and publish it? that is notjournalistic integrity. well, they say, because it is a real story that this dossier is being handed around politicians in the higher echelons of washington, and they wanted to put it at there for their readers, they is eight, for them to make up their own minds. —— they say. if! may them to make up their own minds. —— they say. if i may intercede, them to make up their own minds. —— they say. if! may intercede, i think we know that the higher echelons of the seats were not pro—trump, and i think they have tried to do everything they possibly could to make sure he was not elected, and then to make sure he did not win the electoral vote confirmation. so it is ok for the cia and some senators, including john mccain, republican, i know he
is no fan of donald trump, but it is 0k is no fan of donald trump, but it is okfor is no fan of donald trump, but it is ok for these people do read the dossier but not the rest of us? absolutely not, i think these are things which should be substantiated first. all right, yeah, that is fair enough. what do you think, amanda, of donald trump lashing out at the intelligence surfaces for what he said was leaking details of russia's compromise in information? here is the thing, and this is one of the things about my radio programme. i call it like i see it, i voted for trump because the option on the other side was hillary. i will support him as long as he continues to do the things that he has said he is going to do, and he does it in a manner of integrity. unfortunately, what he portrays when he is out in public, and at a press conference,
bashing our intelligence, this is where it seems a little bit like, you know, like when you are in the elevator with a husband and wife who are bickering, it isjust really uncomfortable, not something that anyone else needs to see. i understand there are issues with our intelligence agent, even barack obama talked about doubting the credibility of them back in 2012, but those things need to be handled behind closed doors, and you know, sorry trump, but this is the kind of stuff which you have to bring the public persona down, you cannot tweet every time you argue? are angry. if you are going to tweet, use facts. let's talk about his defence of these allegations, he could not possibly have been consorting with prostitute because he isa consorting with prostitute because he is a one! —— he is a germophone. idid not
he is a one! —— he is a germophone. i did not see him say that! well, thatis i did not see him say that! well, that is funny. if this was any other person, i would that is funny. if this was any other person, iwould be, like, that is not a substantial response, but i can see it coming from him. he clearly has some of those ocd tendencies, and i think a lot of those tendencies, and you see this in psychological studies, that they often result in successful people because they are so particular about certain things, and donald trump is a success, whether you agree with him or not. i want to ask you about his tax returns, do you want to see his tax returns, do you want to see his tax returns published? he did refer yesterday to the fact that his business interests will be handed over, the leadership of his business interests will be handed to his sons wily as president, do you want to see his tax returns published? no, i ca re see his tax returns published? no, i care what he does in office.” see his tax returns published? no, i care what he does in office. i would kind of like to see dad, to be honest with you. and the reason why,
i trust trump completely, and that is why i voted for him, and i worked very ha rd is why i voted for him, and i worked very hard with his campaign. but there again, i think that to make sure that everything is completely detached from his duty as president, from his former work, i think it is safe to see that is happening. you know, there are so many different things going around right now, the company and all these other things, it isjust hard to tell. ok, thank you both so much for talking to a british audience, we really appreciated, thank you very much. still to come, coronation street star simon gregson, steve mcdonald in the soap, reveals his wife emma has experienced 11 miscarriages, as he hits back at trolls criticising his corrie storyline. the nhs has released its monthly figures for november looking into a&e performance, operation waits and delays on patients being discharged. the data shows key targets are still
being missed, including the 62 day target for cancer treatment to start, and the 18 week target for routine operations. yesterday the prime minister defended the government's handling of the nhs. jeremy corbyn accused her of being in denial. we can talk to people across the country about the pressure of the nhs impacting on our lives. emily barley in nottinghamshire — her grandad's cancer operation was cancelled twice in one week. nigel charles, talking to us from devon, was rushed to hospital with a clot in the lung caused by cancer. he had to wait 12 hours on a trolley before they could find him a bed. and pip holman in london, who's been in agonising pain since august and had her operation cancelled last minute this week. welcome, all of you, nigel, iwill begin with you, if i may, tell me
what waiting 12 hours on a trolley with a clot on your loan is like. what waiting 12 hours on a trolley with a clot on your loan is likem was actually 13 hours! they relieve the pain very quickly, but it is not a very pleasant experience, being stuck in a trolley in the middle of a huge waiting room, very tedious, very boring and unpleasant experience. you have worked in health care yourself, i gather — when you suddenly find yourself in the middle of this, what is it like? well, it is shocking. one reads about the stories, but to experience it is another thing altogether, astonishing to see these incredible delays in a&e, and what is more scandalous is that i was mostly surrounded by older people, and they we re surrounded by older people, and they were having to wait hours as well. i think it is the older people that i'm really concerned about, that they are being subject to this dreadful experience. emily's
grandad, in his case, the operation being cancelled, it turns out that there wasn't really a need to cancel it, but you wouldn't have known that u nless it, but you wouldn't have known that unless your mother had stood her ground. exactly, it was cancelled twice, and then cancelled again the following day, and my mum has been a manager elsewhere in the nhs, and she was able to kind of find out what the problem was and what was going on, and what she found was that it was a bed management issue, so that it was a bed management issue, so while the front—line staff were brilliant, the senior managers in the background, essentially, weren't doing theirjob properly, and in our case we we re doing theirjob properly, and in our case we were able to resolve it, and my grandad was able to have is operation yesterday, and he hasjust got home, so he is doing really well! your mum works for an nhs trust, what does she say about morale amongst medical professionals ? morale amongst medical professionals? 1 think it is inevitable that it must be quite low, because they are facing these
stresses, often on their own, because the managers above them who should be taking responsibility are not. pip, hello, you have been on morphine for your pain for several months, and you still don't know what is causing it. no. go on. i have an outside of the box illness, so have an outside of the box illness, so yeah, quite difficult. no-one knows. because i don't need emergency surgery, or it is not something serious that has been shown in my bloods, no—one really knows what to do with me. clearly, thatis knows what to do with me. clearly, that is a difficult issue, the medical professionals are doing their best to find out what is wrong — what is the issue for you with the nhs at the moment?” — what is the issue for you with the nhs at the moment? i feel that they have treated my symptoms more than my cause, and just being active personally and stacked inside the house for seven months, in pain, like feeling sick, and also having
to ring an ambulance because my pain hasn't been fully looked after. but would you be able to say that you think the staff are doing their best to help you out, to sort you out, to find out what the issue is? they have helped as best as they can, but when it comes to doctors talking to doctors, i've seen so many, some people have tried to be lovely, just didn't know what was wrong. other people didn't even bother to talk to other doctors, and some people generallyjust didn't know what other doctors, and some people generally just didn't know what to do with me. and other people talked down to me like i was a two—year—old and thought i was lying about all this pain. there are thousands of staff with so many doing their absolute best
comedy you have a solution?” many doing their absolute best comedy you have a solution? i do not hold hospitals responsible for this at all. the problem with social care is they couldn't free up beds because they can get people out of hospital because there was inadequate care in the community. the solution is to fund social care properly. the government notes what to do and they need to act now. —— the government knows what to do and they need to act now. let's get more from our health editor, hugh pym, and norman smith, our political guru. this is a familiar story. the problem is, this is november. we get the figure is two months after the event. there were some figures lea ked event. there were some figures leaked to the bbc a couple of days ago telling us how bad things were in the first week of january but official figures in the first week of january but officialfigures don't in the first week of january but official figures don't come out for a while. back in november, even then
there was an increasing number of people going to a&e. 1.9 there was an increasing number of people going to a&e.1.9 million people going to a&e.1.9 million people in november. an increase in the number of emergency admissions. there is this relentless increase in patient demand, all the key targets missed including the wait for cancer treatment, the delays generally for getting operations, and also the four hour wait at a&e. 95% of patients should be seen or assessed within that for hours. that hasn't been met since july within that for hours. that hasn't been met sincejuly 2015. it is one of the lowest on record. you've probably how that target compares with a year earlier. what about the others. is it getting worse? these targets which nhs in england is supposed to meet have been missed consistently for several months now. it's part of an ongoing narrative, if you like. people have been warning about this for a while. the
demand on the nhs has been rising more rapidly, year—on—year, than the money available. the government is right to say it's put in more money to the nhs, but if you've got a workload that's even better, something has to give. there have been warnings that what gives if there is no extra money is people have to wait longerfor there is no extra money is people have to wait longer for operations, you get more people stuck on trolleys in hospitals. and, as was identified in your discussion, social care is one of the big issues. if hospitals can't release people back into the community, elderly patients, that bed is occupied and not available to somebody coming in through the front door. there was a hospital leader isil interviewed yesterday saying it is one in one out, every bed is occupied —— a hospital leader i interviewed yesterday. these figures we've just had show there was a really big increase year—on—year in the so—called delayed transfers of ca re the so—called delayed transfers of care in november, compared with the previous november. this is the big
issue, how you can discharge people back into the community when in england social care has been cut in terms funding. norman, how much pressure is the government and on theissue pressure is the government and on the issue of the nhs in england right now? i don't think there's any doubt mrs may is under real pressure. there's almost a sense at westminster she's been blindsided and caught off—guard by the way this issue has blown up over recent weeks. maybe she's just issue has blown up over recent weeks. maybe she'sjust been focused on brexit. there is another view that she doesn't quite get the nhs as an issue, not in the same way that david cameron did. he famously said the three letters that mattered most to him were nhs. now theresa may is reeling from terrible stories about trolley waits, criticism and letters from medical professionals, the royal colleges. we've got cross—party the royal colleges. we've got cross— party groups banding the royal colleges. we've got cross—party groups banding together to demand something is done about social care. we've had the health
secretary floating possibly backtracking on the four hour target on a&e. now mrs may seems to be involved in a public stand ups but with the man running the nhs, simon stephens. when, he has publicly clashed with mrs may over how much cash he's getting. he's called for more action on social care, suggested using some of the pension perks like free bus passes to provide more money for social care. yesterday he took a dig at mrs may, saying, running the nhs isn't like running the criminal justice saying, running the nhs isn't like running the criminaljustice system. but its funding that is the real sharp end because the government have consistently said, we've given mr stevens more cash than he even asked for. listen to theresa may saying that. we asked the nhs themselves to come up we asked the nhs themselves to come up with their five—year plan. we asked the nhs themselves to say what extra funding was needed to deliver
on that. they came up with their five—year plan, led by simon stephens as chief executive. he said it was £8 billion, we are giving £10 billion of extra funding to the nhs. well, yesterday mr stevens in effect said, not true. you have not given me more money than i asked for. have a listen. it's a matter of fact, it's not news, i've said it previously to the select committee backin previously to the select committee back in october, that like every pa rt of back in october, that like every part of the public service, we got less than we asked for in that process. i think it would be stretching it to say the nhs has got more than it has asked for. this has all fuel suggestions of a rift emerging between a man running the nhs and theresa may. we had the time day, downing street are saying they
retain full confidence in simon stephens. if you look at other top officials who have clashed with mrs may. ivan rogers, the man in brussels who was supposed to be doing the negotiations to get us out of the eu, he walked the plank over christmas after publicly accusing mrs may and the government of muddled thinking of a brexit. then we have the governor of the bank of england, mark carney, publicly very, very gloomy about what would happen after brexit and the implications for the economy, enraging many of those in the brexit campaign. now, he is leaving his post two years earlier. perhaps inevitably there are questions surrounding the future of simon stevens and whether he also might have to walk a plank. the one thing i think that might save him is, amidst all this pressure and outrage, just think, is the head of the nhs was to walk, how much more
pressure mrs may would be under. so perhaps the fact there is such a huge row at the moment means, maybe, mr stevens is untouchable. thank you. this is an e—mailfrom a viewer, i disagree with increasing taxes to fund the nhs, however i would like to see at setting up a lottery to support it. i'm pretty sure british people would support this kind of lottery if they were sure all the cash would go to the organisation. another view says, if i had to wait 62 days the cancer i wouldn't bother, by then it would probably be too late. another viewer, you can't ta ke too late. another viewer, you can't take £42 billion out of the nhs and expected to manage. closing a&es puts pressure on everywhere else. if you have pertinent experience of the nhs then let me know. still to come. the makers of nutella fightback
after claims that palm oil, one of its ingredients, could cause cancer. we'll speak to a cancer specialist and a nutritionist to ask them whether it should put us off buying the spread. now a summary of the main stories this morning. figures released in the past half hour show the continuing pressure on the nhs in england. monthly performance data for november shows key targets continue to be missed. these include the 62—day target for cancer treatment to start and the 18—week target for routine operations. the us director of national intelligence has rejected suggestions made by donald trump that official intelligence agencies leaked claims that russia had compromising material on him. in a statement, james clapper said he had called the president—elect to say the information had not come from the security services. more than 3,000 american troops, tanks, and armoured vehicles are arriving in poland this morning — the united states' biggest military presence in the region
since the cold war. it's to support a nato operation to deter any russian aggression a woman has beenjailed a woman has been jailed for 21 years for the murder of an elderly neighbour in fife. she attacked mary logie with a rolling pin last january. mrs lodi suffered more than 30 injuries to her head and neck. the high court in edinburgh heard that sandra weir had stolen thousands of pounds from her to fund a heroin addiction. a number of major retailers have published their sales figures for the christmas period this morning. m&s reported a 2.3% rise in clothing sales in the 13 weeks to the end of december. food sales were up by 0.6%. meanwhile, tesco says its third quarter sales were up by 1.8%. and, john lewis has reported a 2.7% rise in like—for—like sales over the christmas trading period. here's some sport now.
southampton are a step closer to wembley. they beat liverpool 1—0 in the first leg of the efl cup semi—final last night, nathan redmond with the goal. the return leg is at anfield is in a fortnight‘s time. the england captain alastair cook will meet director of cricket andrew strauss on friday to discuss his future, although no decision on his role as skipper is expected to be made. england lost their recent series against india 4—0. andy murray is in melbourne, ahead of the australian open draw which takes place in the early hours of friday morning. the tournament starts on monday. he'll be the number one seed at a grand slam for the first time in his career. laura robson and tara moore won't be in the draw — they lost their qualifying matches. dan evans is through to a world tour semi—finalfor the first time in his career. the british number three beat top seed dominic thiem at the sydney international. this comes ahead of the start of the
australian open on monday. big hopes for a lot of british players in action. that is all the sport now, plenty more on the bbc news channel throughout the day. coronation street actor simon gregson has revealed that losing 11 babies with this wife influenced the storyline in which his on—screen partner suffered a miscarriage. last night's episode saw harrowing scenes in which michelle connor, played by kym marsh, suffered a late miscarriage. gregson, played by steve mcdonald, revealed the tragedy as kym marsh, said recreating the stillbirth was the best way to "honour" the baby she lost. let's see a clip. crying: i want to lay with him. 0k. go on, then. are you ready? whispers: yeah. there you go. what do i say to people?
when they ask me how many kids i've got, what do i say? do i tell them what happened? listen, you don't have to explain anything to anyone. but if i don't, it's like he never existed. gregson is played by steve mcdonald, who yesterday hit out on twitter at trolls who had tweeted his wife, emma gleave. he tweeted, "to the people who tweeted my wife. "we've lost 11 babies, first being 21 weeks and 4 days. "maybe think or do your research before tweeting someone." in a moment, we'll be talking to erica stewart from the stillbirth and neonatal death charity sands. but first we're going to show you a clip from an interview we did in october last year. 22—year—old jack davis spoke to the programme about the ordeal of having to deal with the loss of two babies within 12 months. he explained how it felt to be a dad dealing with such
a heartbreaking loss. in a tragedy like this, or even just a normal pregnancy, the main focus stereotypically is the one. is the woman. because she's delivered the baby, she's carried the baby for nine months. but i think people forget, in the background, there is a man there supporting that woman. there's a man there who's got to go through all of this as well. and it's notjust the mother who's lost a child, it's the father who's lost his children as well. i think there is a stigma surrounding men, that men have to just bottle things up and be a man about it. you know, "you'll get over it, you'll be fine, man up." and it's not like that at all. you know, men hurt, men have feelings, men feel everything a woman feels. except the physical side, maybe, of carrying a baby. but, yeah, i think it all got kind of pushed towards leanne. i think i helped push it that way because i didn't want to talk, ididn't want to open up. i didn't really want to face anybody and show it. ijust wanted to get
on with things and be that man, and be that stereotype and bottle it all up, until i realised thank you for coming on the programme, you have worked closely with itv on this particular storyline, what with the use that we re storyline, what with the use that were raised? 1 think that, first of all, we were very pleased that coronation street came to us, because it showed that they realised the responsibility they had to portray this storyline very accurately. looking at the scripts, it was just too ensured that the language that was used, you know, that it was portrayed sensitively.” mean, wejust that it was portrayed sensitively.” mean, we just heard from jack — it is... it is so distressing when your partner gives birth to a baby that is dead, or a
partner gives birth to a baby that is dead, ora baby partner gives birth to a baby that is dead, or a baby that dies very shortly after birth, and the scenes in coronation street were also incredibly moving. how many people experience this? well, it is 15 babies dying every day in the uk, babies dying every day in the uk, babies that died before, during or shortly after birth, so it is a lot, 15 families every day, and that has a wider impact on the families and friends as well. what are the reasons for still birth? well, there is no definitive answer to that, really, which is why we launched our research fund last year, because in a lot of cases there is no known cause. right. in terms of a couple coping with the bereavement, what advice do you give people?” coping with the bereavement, what advice do you give people? i think it is not necessarily advice, it is support. when a baby dies, you don't usually know anybody else that this has happened to, so that is where
sands comes in, because parents feel so isolated, so it is really acknowledging the huge impact that this has on parents and families, and of course it is something you don't get over — it is something pa rents don't get over — it is something parents and families learn to live with. and are you there to give advice and support to parents when they know that their child is going to be born dead? yes. what advice do you give people? it is not necessarily advice, it is more support, so we have a booklet, when a baby dies before labour begins, and this gets parents to think about the choices before their baby is born, creating memories, seeing and holding their baby, as we saw last night, taking photographs, hand and footprints. because the only memories they are going to have is the memories that are created in hospital, so it is unique to any other type of bereavement.”
hospital, so it is unique to any other type of bereavement. i think it is worth saying, because for most people it is unimaginable, but as the woman, giving birth to a dead baby, it is a normal labour that you have to go through.” baby, it is a normal labour that you have to go through. i don't think people realise, there is a lack of awareness in society that women do go through full labour and have to give birth. people think it is an early miscarriage, where maybe they think you have lost the baby down the toilet or something, but actually, as michelle showed last night, women give birth, they go through full labour and have a choice to see and hold their baby and create memories. and what about decisions about how the child is buried? again, parents can arrange their own funeral, or sometimes the hospital can take care of the funeral as well. so again it is a normalfuneral, the funeral as well. so again it is a normal funeral, the normal arrangements that he would make for an adult. simon gregson revealed, as
we said in the introduction, alert he and his wife have lost 11 babies, some miscarriages, some still birth —an some miscarriages, some still birth — an extraordinarily large amount. it is huge, how they have coped i do not know, but we are there plans to support anybody affected by the death of a baby, and we have a helpline open throughout the storyline. thank you for talking to us, erica, from sands. is eating nutella bad for you, and could it increase the risk of you getting cancer? well, a report by the european food standards agency is warning that palm oil, a key ingredient in the popular brand, generates chemicals that are thought to cause cancer. now, the makers of nutella, ferrero, has launched a campaign to re—assure the public about the safety of the much—loved hazelnut and chocolate spread. they say in a new advertisement that the palm oil used in nutella is safe, and "making nutella without palm oil would be a step backward." but if experts think there might be
a problem with palm oil, who should we believe? with me is amanda ursell, she's a nutritionist for the sun newspaper and healthy food guide magazine. and in birmingham is professor nick james, a clinical consultant specialising in urological cancer. welcome, both of you. first of all, ifi welcome, both of you. first of all, if i could talk to you, professor, what do you think of the dangers or otherwise of eating food or spread that may contain palm oil? it is quite a media stable, you know, that something causes cancer, and it may well be true, but if you expose cancer cells to enough of something for long enough, you can show effects that are concerning. 1 think the essential point is around dosage. we know, for example, with cigarette smoking, you have to smoke 20 day for 50 years in order to have
the substantial increase of cancer. one or two the substantial increase of cancer. one ortwoa the substantial increase of cancer. one or two a day would not produce much risk. the same applies to things like bacon, it is carcinogenic, but most people are not eating 20 rashers a day. just go back to cigarettes, i haven't heard that before, that you say, sorry, go on. your risk is related to the number of cigarettes you smoke. so you do not see cigarettes causing cancer within a year also of starting smoking, so the key point is it is notjust around whether something is carcinogenic, it is how much you are exposed to it. so with something like nutella, where you have a dollop on bread, even if you are have a dollop on bread, even if you a re really have a dollop on bread, even if you are really addicted, more than once are really addicted, more than once a day, you're still not eating very much of it. so even if it is carcinogenic, it is not a high risk. but are you saying it is
carcinogenic? i have no idea. i am not ina carcinogenic? i have no idea. i am not in a position to say that. the thing that doesn't get taken into account in these stories is the issue around dosage, how much you are exposed to in a normal diet, and the answer was almost certainly not very much. bond taken, hazelnut and chocolate spread for breakfast, some kids and adults, not good, palm oil or not? that is the point, as a nutritionist, i come at it from the overall diets that we are eating, so something like nutella or any of the other chocolate spread the market, the first ingredient is sugar. so thatis the first ingredient is sugar. so that is in the spotlight at the moment, so if you are having a tablespoon of nutella, that is two teaspoons of sugar, so that is one reason, as a nutritionist, we would say, try not to have it too often, in spite of any palm oil issues as well. the reason we have these other
products here is because they also have palm oil. the problem with the palm oil that the european food standards agency has highlighted is when it is heated to beyond 200 degrees, that is the crucial thing, and they say that is when the carcinogenic is formed, and obviously the professor has a good point. and we wouldn't know, whether it has been heated. the point is, these foods that, as dieticians nutritionists, go steady on them anyway. it is kind of a story, obviously, we need to know about this as members of the public, but these are foods that do not appear in the eat well guide. we have a plate which the department of health has created to guide us towards healthy eating, and these foods are outside of the health. we have fruit and veg, protein, starchy carbohydrates, and these things are outside the plate, to be had in strict moderation. so it is very much about quantity that you eat which is very important. we hear you
talk about quantity, both of you. do you think parents should, for whatever reason, stop buying chocolate spread for their children? that is a difficult one, you have got to have the ability of people to make a choice over this, so you might prefer to give your children chocolate spread as opposed to biscuits. on the breakfast table, you would not give your kid a bar of chocolate, would you ? you would not give your kid a bar of chocolate, would you? so giving them, you know, a thing of chocolate spread... it is a difficult one, because i would appeared to be dictating to people where they spend their sugar dictating to people where they spend theirsugarand dictating to people where they spend their sugar and fat allowance, and i think it has to be personal choice. would i have chocolate spread on the table every morning? probably not, because once my children start eating it, they can't stop, then you have a battle royal on your hands. so it has to be down to the individual. professor, it is really interesting, showing our audience the other products which contain palm oil — margarine, a pot noodle,
digestives, bakewell slices, palm oil — margarine, a pot noodle, digestives, ba kewell slices, dairy milk. the point is very well made, you do not want to eat too much of any of those. so it is all about having a balanced diet, a mix of nutrients, and i don't think it is wrong to have the odd treat, but if it isa wrong to have the odd treat, but if it is a big component of your diet, it is a big component of your diet, it is a big component of your diet, it is going to be doing you much more harm in other ways, the quantity of sugar and calories, much more quickly than a long—term risk which may or may not be there of carcinogenesis. we do not know what process has gone into making this stuff. amanda, in terms of the calories and sugar content generally in those products, what would you say about them ? in those products, what would you say about them? keep them for treat
times, but irregularly part of your diet, sorry to be boring, same old mantra! thank you very much, amanda, thanks for coming on the programme, we really appreciate your time, professor. ok. thank you, bye-bye. in case you hadn't heard, there is snow on the way, thundersnow, and meteorologists are predicting this rare occurrence in some parts of wales today. have you ever seen it? what is it? nick miller explains. snow is one thing. thundersnow is another. unusual but some of us have observed it recently, and there may be more to come, with the weather said up as it is, plenty of cold air across the uk, and we are seeing snow showers coming our way. if there is enough energy, you get a thunderstorm, but it is winter, and instead of rain, you get thundersnow. there is not a huge amount of difference between the
mechanics of a winter thunderstorm compared with a summer thunderstorm, lots of air rising quickly to produce big clouds, and within that cloud ice crystals interact with each other, producing a build—up of static electricity, and the bigger the build—up, the more likely you will get a discharge in the form of a lightning strike. but there are some differences in winter — first of all, the lightning at night may well appear brighter because it is reflected by snowflakes. but the snowfla kes reflected by snowflakes. but the snowflakes may muffle the sound of the thunder. you are not likely to hear thunder as far away from a winter thunderstorm as you are from a summer thunderstorm. so unusual, not unheard of, look out, this note, you may be lucky to encounter thundersnow. look out, stay tuned to the bbc weather forecasts through the day. wendy does not believe donald trump is involved in the sexual allegations and says, i have no clue
why an m16 business getting involved. cameron says, if the details were not verifiable, buzzfeed does not have a right to publish this kind of material. and let me find this one, ican't find my comments on motel, just as well, because we have reached the end of the programme! thank you very much for getting in touch, bbc news room live is next. the weather is more straightforward across northern parts of the uk, sunshine and snow showers, further south, snow over the hills, rain working further east through the midlands, and as it starts to clear away, so the rain will turn to sleet and snow, because the cold air is cutting in behind it. the temperatures are an indication of how cold it is. it will feel really cold across northern areas, given
the wind. through the rush hour, some snow here in particular, then it freezes very quickly, then more of these wintry showers, bands of sleet and snow moving from the north, complicating things overnight, leading to frost and ice pretty widely, i would have thought. a spell of sleet and snow through the midlands, southeast, east anglia fairly quickly tomorrow, then plenty of wintry showers on the cold northerly wind. for many inland, dry and sunny, but feeling cold, particularly down the north sea coasts, where there will be some very big waves, feeling more like minus five celsius. this is bbc news, and these are the top stories developing at 11am. the us director of national
intelligence rejects suggestions made by donald trump that official agencies leaked claims russia had compromising material on him. bumper christmas figures for major retail stores. marks & spencer, john lewis and tesco report a rise in sales over the christmas period. plans to construct the uk's first tidal lagoon off swansea to generate hydro—electric power moves a step closer. also... as temperatures are set to dip, the met office issues yellow be aware warnings for much of the country. in scotland, the wintry weather conditions have already hit but he threw dozens of flights are cancelled ahead of the expected snowfall. —— at heathrow.