tv Politics Europe BBC News March 19, 2017 2:30pm-3:01pm GMT
in a north london flat. set by the government. both sides continue to disagree over funding. liberal democrat leader tim farron has accused the prime minister of following "aggressive, nationalistic" politics like those of donald trump and vladimir putin. he said that theresa may had become a part of "new world order". tributes have been paid to the rock and roll legend chuck berry who has died at the age of 90. the american singer and guitarist enjoyed a successful seven decade career which produced classic hits including roll over beethoven and johnny b goode. now on bbc news it's time for politics europe with andrew neil. hello, and welcome to
politics europe, your regular guide to the top stories in brussels and strasbourg. on today's programme, the bill allowing theresa may to trigger article 50 is now law. what will be the british government's next move? how will the eu respond? the head of the eu commission unveils his blueprint for the eu without britain. the european court ofjustice rules companies can ban workers from wearing the headscarf. and breaking up is not always easy to do.
what can czechoslovakia's velvet divorce tell us about brexit? first, our guide to the latest from europe in just 60 seconds. the dutch prime minister, mark rutte, celebrated victory in his country's election, easily defeating geert wilders. eu leaders staunchly backed the dutch in a diplomatic row a diplomatic row with turkey. commissionerjean—claude juncker said he was scandalised. we will never accept this comparison between the nazis and the current government. the european court of human rights ruled that hungary unlawfully kept two migrants in a transit zone. the decision could affect the country's plan to automatically detain all asylum seekers in border camps. the spanish foreign minister says an independent scotland will have
to join the back of the queue for eu membership. spain's government is worried about the separatist movement in catalonia. fﬁifuéﬁéﬁiaziwa'sacs: — — — from wearing religiou symbols but the restriction must be based on internal company rules requiring all employees to dress neutrally. i am joined by the min ~ mep george batten, and the conservative mep ian duncan. let us look at the european court ofjustice ruling on headscarves. what do you make of it? it seems to bring the ec] into line with the uk government, as far as i can work out. you cannot discriminate against one culture or religion. you have to treat all equally. theresa may said she disapproves at pmqs. she said women have a right to choose how they dress. that is not what the ec]
ruling is saying. she is saying she won't legislate on how people are wearing their clothes. and that is right, but all should be treated equally and fairly. what do you think? we should not be under the jurisdiction of the ec]. yeah, i got that bit. it is fraught with difficulties. first of all, should a company have a dress code? that is not an unreasonable thing. this is difficult. it means you cannot wear jewish skull caps, sikh turbans, christian crosses. on face coverings. you have made an interesting point, can sikhs not wear their turbans? not at all. it is giving power to companies to treat all employees fairly. if it said no religious symbols
at all of any kind, would that... would the sikhs then be in trouble? as i understand it, the turban is part of a religious manifestation for them. that company would have to justify very clearly why they have made this decision, and if they cannot, then they cannot impose it. as far as i am concerned that seems practial. an interesting development. we will see what the national and law courts make of it. a lot of the judgement at the end said the details need to be sorted out at a national and local level. yesterday, the bill enabling theresa may to trigger article 50 which will allow britain to leave the eu got royal assent. downing street said article 50 at the end of the month. what will happen next? european council president donald tusk said the eu would need just 48 hours to respond to the uk
with draft guidelines and negotiation. he also said an extraordinary meeting of the eu 27, the eu without the united kingdom, will take base in april, or possibly may, when european leaders will decide a guideline for the negotiating mandate. only once it is agreed will the official negotiations began, maybe sometime injune orjuly. lots of elections getting in the way of this in europe. citizens‘ rights and the brexit divorce bill are likely to be top priorities. both sides need to reach an agreement by october 2018. that will leave enough time for the uk and european parliaments to sign off on the terms of the deal. european talks often go well beyond their deadline, of course. if there is no agreement, there is a chance that britain could, to use the vernacular, "crash out" of the eu on world trade terms.
brexit secretary david davis said the uk government had not assessed the economic impact on such an outcome to his satisfaction. donald tusk addressed the issue when he addressed the european parliament on wednesday. i want to be clear that a no deal scenario would be bad for everyone. but above all for the uk. it would leave a number of issues unresolved. we will not be intimidated by threats. and i can assure you they simply will not work. our goal is to have a smooth divorce and a good framework for the future. and it is good to know that prime minister theresa may shares this view. are you surprised, or does it matter, that the government, given that it said this could be an option, that no deal would be
better than a bad deal, has no sort of game plan what no deal would mean? yes, considering that we've done it, i can't see why have you done it? what way have you done it? you talked about wto terms. the big issue is about trade. there is no way you will unravel tens of thousands of eu laws before you leave. but on trade, theyjust need to be made a single offer that means they could have continued tariff free trade with goods, services and capital, but no people, because we are going to control our borders. the wto does not cover this. no, it doesn't, but we could offer them that option. it would be in their interest to do it. this would be a decision of the council, by the way, whether they do this, then angela merkel would have to talk to others to say why they were not accepting a deal but would prefer to have the common external tarrifs brought up. there is something that could happen in ten minutes and be decided in an afternoon.
are you surprised? that is the principle, it does not tell us the consequences. is economic modelling so discredited after what was said before i think right now they are focused on the positive and constructive case. right now, first and foremost, we must get the best through the negotiated settlement. i suspect certain elements i think there will be a multitrack path for the negotiations. some things will be straightforward and others will be devilishly difficult. will it be multitrack? he is saying that we need to agree on the divorce bill before we talk about the post brexit relationship between the eu and the uk. the british government, especially david davis, he is saying that we need to talk about both at the same time. that could be a dealbreaker if the europeans don't agree to that.
the whole thing is fraught with difficulties. the report by the economic and monetary affairs committee has put in all kinds of impediments already. so we believe from a draft. they want the ec] to have continued control and jurisdiction. they want to control our tax policy. the men in charge is mr verhofstadt,,wbo,is thg, gag; = enthusiastic integrationist you'll find whole parliament, so he has not got any... he is the parliament spokesperson. he is not in charge. is he not a senior observer? he will be. on behalf of the parliament. he will have no negotiating role whatsoever. right? every single one of those committees is doing that. they want the hardest possible deal imaginable. the fairest one i have read is from the constitutional affairs committee, which actually was quite a fair exposition of where we are and what could happen. i don't agree with all of it. but for example, one of the things
it says is we are under no legal obligation to pay any money. the house of lords said that. and what other committee said that? the constitutional affairs committee. is it a dealbreaker to say we need to agree the divorce bill before we look at what happens afterwards? the first thing you say in a negotiation is put the hardest deal on the table. the money from the uk. money has become a bigger issue right now. the point is that french farmers will need money. the last thing they need is the uk walking were from the ta'ex‘k 747—7747 ~ , r— —— the french farmers will... that we will have, in effect, the shape of the deal by the autumn of 2018?
in all of the summits i have covered, they always go down to the wire. we have already got it in a way. theresa may will not repeal a single eu law and will not amend a single eu law before we leave. and she will incorporate the entire body of the eu law into british law. what changes? what can be done by 2018? you will end up with a deal... ijust mean a timetable, do you think it can be done? they cannot negotiate every eu law by then. it is impossible. do you think there should be time for the eu parliament, the british parliament, the scottish parliament, everyone to have a say? the trade deal itself. that could take longer. the bottom line is the divorce structure and settlement and all of these elements can be mapped out. the trade is—theeasiestthiné— — — —— very well.
we shall see. what is the future direction of europe if there is a future? following the shock of brexit and donald trump, will the eu come closer together, or it is the path forward one of looser co—operation? meps have been looking at the five ontionslaidout ,. ,, in a commission white paper, as danjohnson has been finding out. rome, 60 years ago, when europe's future was first mapped out. many of those original principles still guide it today, but there have been bumps in the road. and this week, europe's leaders started discussing a new direction. a multispeed europe will be one of the discussions ahead of the rome anniversary. some expect systemic changes. we will strengthen the role of nations in relation to the community.
but which way to turn? how best to get an agreement? and are they serious about change? i think certainly the brexit decision has given a push in order to go in this direction. and finally it has also reached the commission and, you know, some of the other political groups in this house, that we do need to reconsider some of the things and some of the ways that we have done politics in the past in the european union. so, five options to be considered. carrying on, essentially nothing changes. cutting back to nothing but the single market, already effectively ruled out by the commission. those who want to do more would allow closer integration for some, while others moved at their own pace. they could all do less more efficiently. or they could agree on doing much more together. the leader of parliament's second biggest group knows what he wants. the best scenario is the fifth scenario. the possibility to go on together for more european integration
and political integration. the majority of people understand that we need a stronger and more united europe. itjust so happens he was previously a forensic pathologist, which begs the obvious question. i don't think europe is a dead body. there does seem to be acceptance that europe has lost its way in recent years. at least there is now a pause for a new way forward. but to actually get anywhere, everyone has to agree on the best route. they are hoping to do that by the end of this year but that jean—claude juncker has already discussed his plan with the german chancellor and spain's prime minister, but some eurosceptics don't like any of the alternatives on offer. i feel like many other citizens, completely betrayed.
these options are just one option with different degrees. let's exclude the first one. the first one is to keep everything like it is and in fact we are seeing that it is not working. the second one is to focus on the market, but the commission says we don't want that option. the other three are three different degrees of integration, but the point is integration for what? and to do what? is this the way to actually get people to love europe again? i think that there needs to be a bottom up european movement. we as pro—europeans need to go to the streets again and say, we want this. because in so many countries there has been his narrative of the european union being something of the elites, being something top—down and i think we need to say, no, this is not true. the challenge is to get a new momentum and get back on track. all aboard! even if we don't yet know exactly
where we are heading. all except the uk, of course, whatever the new destination is, britain won't be along for the ride. you would have thought the prospect of britain leaving the eu, which is a huge historic event, whether you are for or against it. you would have thought it would concentrate minds in eu, to say, where do we go from here without britain? but it seems to me that they are as divided as ever on the way forward, is that right? pretty much spot on. everyone is pointing a different direction. the plan put forward by jean—claude juncker was interesting. it was a magician‘s trick with one card sticking out, which was the multispeed europe. everyone seems to like that, if they are in the fast lane. does that include the east europeans? and to some extent the nordics as well? yes, so you end up with a scenario in which those who are fast tracks see why it is important.
the other thing of course is that the elections, we've just had the dutch election, that has produced a result which i suspect will take a long while to form government now in holland. we've got the french ones coming up and the germans. a france that is run by mr macron and germany run by mr schultz would have a different direction, than a france run by marine le pen or continues to be run in germany by chancellor merkel. is that not right? exactly. the most sensible option will be to just concentrate on tariff—free trade and turning... we want tariff—free trade. i don't think we want the rest of it. they won't do that, will they? they won't. although jean—claude juncker said at the end of his speech that he wouldn't say what his preferred option was,
i think most of us guessed it was option five, deeper integration all—round. the elections this year are fascinating for a number of reasons, including this. mr macron is a strong pro—european, that his approach. mr schultz is a strong european as well. but in italy four out of five of the biggest parties are now against the euro. they haven't as yet had an election this year. they might, we don't know. the east europeans are a different ball game too. it is quite difficult to see the way forward, with all these differences of opinion. one thing that seems to bring europe together right now is discussing brexit. curiously enough a lot of these populist movements might not win elections but they are dragging the debate on their side. as they did in holland. so we will see more eurosceptic elements being front and centre in a lot of these campaigns. the complexion of europe will change, even if they don't win...
is it that whatever path they take, and it will not be our decision because apparently we won't be there, but whatever path europe takes is it in our interest, given that it is still our biggest market by a long way is it in our interest that it should succeed? but of course there is a tremendous disaster on the horizon, which is what happens to the euro. in the report that jean—claude juncker did, he said we have to do something about the catastrophic rates of youthunernployment, , w ,, unions and they don't understand that one of the biggest causes of the economic problems in europe is the european currency... he's talking about making the monetary union work more sensibly, with a proper banking union and with transfer of payments from the rich countries to the poorer ones. the difficulty with that, given the dutch elections, is that reforming the euro will be
more difficult than ever. absolutely. and it isn't a common problem so there isn't a common solution. there are lots of different problems in different directions, causing problems for the commissioner and all the rest. we could see more parties like ukip. you will be leaving space for them! divorces can be messy and if you fall out in a big way over the money for example it can make it very difficult to make new arrangements. how can a messy brexit break be avoided? our adam has been to the former czechoslovakia to look at what can be learned from what came to be called the velvet divorce. picture this scene. new year's eve, 1992, and this square is packed with people celebrating the end of czechoslovakia and the birth of an independent slovak republic in a process known as the velvet
divorce, so—called because not a single shot was fired. freedom europe. but the public weren't as involved in what happens next. the main contender here is the leader vladimir meciar. and over an intense few weeks he negotiated a split with his counterpart in the richer czech part of the country. there was no referendum and the divorce followed a simple formula. there are 10 million czechs, 5 million slovaks, the property was divided two to one. the military was divided in the similar way. diplomatic services in our embassies were divided very peacefully and we didn't have
any border disputes. because we always had a border between the czech and slovak republics, so there were no major fights. since then, slovakia hasjoined the eu and flourished, or has it? iveta radicova is a member of the former prime minister's club with david cameron, and she says the split was not than people remember. m % the president, parliament, government, justice, constitutional law. all institutions of controlling mechanisms. everything! for the next generation of politicians, like the economy minister, it is all ancient history.
or geography. i think it is the best partnership. still good friends? still good friends. i'm not the only visitor from the uk. david davis was in town recently as well, could he have spied any lessons for the uk's upcoming divorce? openly, no lessons. i don't think it will be over in one or two years. the key is to maintain goodwill and maintain good relationships, where you are not playing games and tricks. it is a triumph of nationalism and not much else. the two republics go their separate ways. at the time but living apart !-..-.x.- 18.104.22.168... fumes.— — during the scottish referendum, i did a documentary
about breamﬁkﬁ at the velvet divorce. although they are two pretty small countries, and you would think it would be easy, it turned out there were many treaties that had to be done. breaking up is hard to do. yes, but the lesson is, if you make the decision to go and sort the details out afterwards... that's not really the government's position. the british government's position... it might not be acceptable. before we go, we want to see what it means. some elements we can untangle easily. other things actually involve us building something fresh. there are couple of elements to this. i believe we can do that if we both enter the discussions in a right frame of mind, knowing harming one side harms the other side too. can you look to negotiations in which there is no victor and no vanquished? can that be done?
we can make them an offer they can't refuse and then we all benefit and that seems to be the biggest issue. it would not be immensely difficult. immigration is the next biggest problem. it can be done, we have to keep focused on the outcome and that's a good deal for both sides and that's what the people want. whatever the politicians want remains to seen. we shall see. it will be an interesting time. thank you both. that's it from politics europe. bye— bye hello. it is set to turn much colder into next week. spring is put temporarily on hold. in the meantime, it is fro mild out there.
very windy across 552—‘55 meantime, it is fro mild out there. very windy across eng and meantime, it is fro mild out there. very windy across 2 and wales. very windy across england and wales. we do have some rain in the forecast. it has been ever so wet across northern - and across northern ireland and north—west england into north wales as well, thanks to this weather front which will continue to trail across central areas for the next few hours. the rain has been easing. there have been bright colours across cumbria and the north—west of england with a little bit of rain getting into north wales as well. this is the picture from the middle of the afternoon into the evening. we will see the rain tapping central areas. plenty of across central areas. plenty of showers into the north and west. heavy at times. quite blustery as well. a few showers and northern ireland. largely dry across northern england. into the south, for wales and the south—west of england, some low cloud and hill fog. outbreaks of rain pepping up and spreading eastwards. still quite a mild end to
the day. overnight it turns much wetter across central and southern areas. meanwhile, we will have an of low pressure pushing into area of low pressure pushing into the north—east of scotland. showers merging together to produce longer spells of rain. colder air pushing in. some of that will be wintry over the higher ground. into monday, this is the pressure chart. tightly packed isobars for scotland. into england and wales have a weather front which will bring a really cloudy, soggy day. but rain slowly pushing its way. eastwards pushing its way to eastwards becoming confined towards the south. generally the north and west will with sunshine. scattered brighter with sunshine, scattered blustery showers and some snow over higher ground as it will be colder there. the last of the zée airj there. the last of the milder air pushes away during monday night and into tuesday it will be much colder. that is the setup for the rest of the week. some of the showers will
be wintry even down to lower levels on tuesday. in the wind it will feel cold and don't on tuesday. in the wind it will feel cold and - don't forget, where cold and bitter. don't forget, where the skies clear- we are likely the skies clear night we are likely to see some frost as well. things are biting back for a while. this is bbc news. the headlines-aw the headlines at 3.00pm: police name the man the man they're looking for in connection with the death of one—year—old boy in north london. the organisation representing nhs trusts in england warns that meeting the standards set by the government over the next year will be mission impossible. trusts are saying they cannot deliver the key accident and emergency and elective surgery targets and hit financial balance, and that is before the year has even started. that is the first time ever that has actually happened. the rac warns that most drivers buying new cars will pay introduced next month. also this hour: