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tv   Election 2017  BBCNEWS  June 2, 2017 10:00pm-10:31pm BST

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welcome to the university of york. i'm in the spin room when we have been watching the debate. 45 minutes each of hard grilling by members of the public for the prime minister and for the labour leader, jeremy corbyn. what's come out very clearly is that theresa may is still under pressure to detail exactly what she hopes to get for britain out of brexit, while mr corbyn was pressed on whether he'd press the nuclear button, his plans for corporation tax, in the labour party. they weren't easy questions by any means, and theresa may will be 45 minutes each of hard grilling by members of the public for the prime minister and for the labour leader, jeremy corbyn. what's come out very clearly is that theresa may is still under pressure to detail exactly what she hopes to get for britain out of brexit, while mr corbyn was pressed on whether he'd press the nuclear button, his plans for corporation tax, and other controversies such as anti—semitism in the labour party. they weren't easy questions by any means, and theresa may will be hoping it will have some impact in the conservatives favour after a week of disappointing polls. let's speak to labour's joint general election coordinator chief, andrew gwynne, and the brexit secretary, david davis. it would appear that people were very concerned. it was an assured performance by the prime minister. she made. a free trade agreement, trade with the rest of the world, building intoa trade with the rest of the world, building into a plan to pay for public services. she showed clearly
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what she was made off and was very goodin what she was made off and was very good in her answers. the other side of the coin was we had jeremy corbyn who was weak on immigration, the economy, defence, slippery on anti—semitism and clearly not the man to take the brexit negotiations. the first question to theresa may, how can we trust you after detailing a number of things where the viewer was feeling let down. do you feel she has that? the audience were not patsies, they were very clear in their questions. she has plainly. this is about trust and making the decisions that need to be made, the decisions that need to be made, the decision to call the election to enable us to do a good brexit deal, she was very plain and her answers as she did not dark any questions, unlikejeremy as she did not dark any questions, unlike jeremy corbyn. —— as she did not dark any questions, unlikejeremy corbyn. —— she did not dark any questions. a very angry nurse who was cheered when she said, are we not worth it? it is not weak to say we need to have the money to pay the bill. we are raising 8 million extra for the national
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health service. that is taking the question right on. she did this on issues of disability and others. she made it plain. we have to run the economy well, to generate the money to deliver the public services, something we can do and have done over the years. we are joined by labour's campaign coordinator. jeremy corbyn did not answer the question about the red button, he did answer. he said that he would not want the first strike. the important thing here is that no labour government, no conservative government has ever been put in that position where they have had to press the red button. the clue is in the name. it is called a nuclear the current. if we ever find ourselves
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ina current. if we ever find ourselves in a situation where we have to press the button first, the deterrent has not worked. i agree withjeremy deterrent has not worked. i agree with jeremy corbyn that we want to live in a world that is free from nuclear weapons. the way we do that, and the conservatives are signed up to that, exactly, your policy is multilateral disarmament. the problem is that nuclear the current —— nuclear deterrents depends on their credibility. what would happen if we were under attack? he was explicit that he would not use first use. explicit that he would not use first use. he was very clear. the audience we re use. he was very clear. the audience were not happy with that. no labour government will ever put the
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security of our nation at stake. i have to say, david, there is no credibility from theresa may who was weak and wobbly, failing to give out assurances to pensioners that they will not lose their winter fuel allowa nce, will not lose their winter fuel allowance, what the cap will be on social care, this is what people wa nt social care, this is what people want to know. the audience will make theirjudgment. she said we have to pay for this, deal with an issue thatis pay for this, deal with an issue that is exploding in size, 2 million extra people over the age of seven to five in the next decade, and we need to find a way to pay for it. —— over the age of 75. it will protect people from paying too much but it will help to fund a good social care for everyone. we can talk about brexit, an issue close to you. she has said before that she would not
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give out details of the negotiations. do you think the public where is that? the public have had the opportunity to read 100 pages of the aims and strategy, two white papers, 6000 word speech, there is 5—page letter to brussels, there is 5—page letter to brussels, the article 50 letter, and any number of speeches from the in the house of commons. there is a vast amount of information out there and she has made it very plain. some of it is controversial, son says no deal is better than a bad deal, we would be willing to walk away. let me finish my sentence. that is not offered by the labour party, so they have to accept any deal but is offered to them. that is not correct. you know we will go on with the aim of getting the best possible deal that we can. the aim is no good with overleveraged. —— no good
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without loveridge. you know the only deal on the table to the united kingdom if we walk away without a deal from the eu is world trade organisation rules, which means, and i hope you acknowledge this, 10% tariff increases on cars, 12% extra on close, 40% extra on land. some of on close, 4096 extra on land. some of those numbers are right. that is what it means. the public at large... we are not going to have no deal. we are going to get it because we are willing to walk away. the people listening will know that if you go to buy a house and you say you're going to buy it at any circumstances, you will pay a high price. but the labour party thinks we will get given things for
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nothing. this will take a tough and steely approach, which is generous and open, we want a mutually beneficial deal, but we know that the bottom line is and they do not. when you say you are not keen on david davis and his negotiating team, they think europe would like you better? we acknowledge and acce pt you better? we acknowledge and accept the result of the referendum but we want to get the best deal for britain. you do that by sitting down and explaining that it is mutually beneficial to have tariff free trade because if you are building planes, like a bus and so on, we need to make sure that we are bringing bits and pieces that make those planes into the uk and we are sending bits over to europe. are you not giving away part of your negotiating point
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when you say that the first thing you will do is make sure the eu citizens are going to be protected. if that not part of the negotiation? you should not reveal your hand. if that not part of the negotiation? you should not reveal your handli do not think people's' lives can be bargaining chips. whether it is the lives of people who have made their workplace the united kingdom or whether it is a british person who has made their workplace elsewhere in the european union, i do not want to see us losing that. that is the problem... they are willing to say we will solve the 3 million but we will leave the 1 million standing. we wa nt will leave the 1 million standing. we want to solve the four million and we offered this in december, but the european union did not agree to deal with that in december. we will deal with that in december. we will deal with that in december. we will deal with it at the very first... the million british citizens abroad we cannot deal with. this is why
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your negotiating strategy is a fa ntasy. your negotiating strategy is a fantasy. we saw jeremy your negotiating strategy is a fantasy. we saneremy corbyn as a man who did not is way through the complexities of this. he did not understand the difficulties of the negotiation or how to deal with the 27. he will be rolled over in the brexit negotiations if he is prime minister. it is absolute nonsense of what people will be voting for on the 8th of june what people will be voting for on the 8th ofjune is better public services and security in old age and a fully costed health service. it is a fully costed health service. it is a question of priorities, because you can find £70 billion for the top but you cannot find it for the bottom. i'm going to let you to take the subway. thank you. —— take this away. this is what the prime minister had to say about brexit and the possibility of being punished during the negotiations.”
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the possibility of being punished during the negotiations. i am confident we can get a good deal with the right flank but there was a gauche nations because i think a good deal is in our interests and the interest of the rest of the eu. we have to be prepared to stand up for britain. we have to be prepared to go in there recognising that we are not willing to accept a bad deal. what is a bad deal? you talk all the time about a bad deal that you will not accept, can you explain what that would be? on the one hand, david, you have politicians in europe who are talking about punishing the uk believing this year. i think what they want to see would be a bad deal. secondly, there are politicians in the united kingdom who seem to be willing to accept any deal just for the kingdom who seem to be willing to accept any dealjust for the sake of getting a deal. the danger is they would be accepting the worst deal at the worst price. that was the issue of brexit. letters top to the deputy
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coordinator of the labour party campaign. give me your overview about how jeremy corbyn campaign. give me your overview about howjeremy corbyn perform tonight. i think he performed very well tonight, the questions were a little bit different to what they we re little bit different to what they were in previous tv appearances, but i think he performed well. people solved tonight and they have warmed tojeremy solved tonight and they have warmed to jeremy corbyn solved tonight and they have warmed tojeremy corbyn because he is sincere and honest and will answer the question. he did not answer a crucial question on pushing the red button, there was no answer. the best question tonight was from the young woman who asked the rest of the audience why everyone was eager to press a button and incinerate millions of people across the planet and she got a tremendous round of applause. that was the best question asked tonight. in terms of money, is ita asked tonight. in terms of money, is it a letter to santa claus, how do you think you dealt with that
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question? we are the only party that have got a manifesto with pledges that are fully costed. we are the only ones who've itemised everything very clearly, very critically, and thatis very clearly, very critically, and that is what the general public want. they want to see that we can afford and we will look towards the manifesto, fully costed, and that is not what they have done. they have a ma nifesto not what they have done. they have a manifesto that has already been shredded and hours hosted the test of time. you were pointing at boris johnson, whojoins us now.|j of time. you were pointing at boris johnson, who joins us now. i thought that was a fascinating and by opening debate and i can gradually the bbc for putting it on. theresa may is kindness serial —— is prime minister material, she got to the point. she did not and so any
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question on the public sector and public pay cuts. she never an saudi single question. the nurse has to buy beer getting a 1% pay rise. single question. the nurse has to buy beer getting a 196 pay rise. -- she never answered a single question. i thought she was very clear. we are putting extra money into the nhs. where will the £8 billion, from because she would not a nswer billion, from because she would not answer the question about where it would come from? there is no magic money tree and i think that is a question you might want to ask this labour trap. question you might want to ask this labourtrap. —— question you might want to ask this labour trap. —— labour chap. question you might want to ask this labourtrap. —— labour chap. the money will come from the proceeds of growth. the risk is the economy will tank and be shredded by labour proposals that you have heard tonight and seen in their manifesto, tonight and seen in their manifesto, to increase taxes on british businesses. taxes will be lower than
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they were... there is something extraordinary about the content from jeremy corbyn towards the guy who was worried about the impact of taxation. what these people do not understand is that everybody in this country depends on the success of those businesses. you do not have the faintest idea. they are a communist cabal who have taken over this thing and they are not supported by 75% of labour mps. he is one of the few who supports jeremy corbyn, if he is an mp. they have a range of views that date back to the 1970s, they would take this country backwards and it is not right for britain to dave. i thought prime minister max sketched out a powerful vision of how to make the
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most of brexit to take the country forward. she sees the opportunities and she is optimistic about what can be achieved. one final point about jeremy corbyn, the most chilling thing at all is that this is a guy who is standing to be prime minister on the 8th ofjune and we face all sorts of threats, we cannot guarantee that we will be immune from nuclear blackmail. this was a 959 from nuclear blackmail. this was a gag who was saying to the world, advertising, if it came to nuclear blackmail from around or north korea or anywhere else, jeremy corbyn would be vulnerable to cause he would be vulnerable to cause he would not press the trigger. the logic of nuclear deterrents is avoided. it is pointless. the audience picked this issue up. the nuclear button. all i would say with
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regard to the brexit issue...|j nuclear button. all i would say with regard to the brexit issue... i want to talk about the nuclear issue. do you want this guy and liam fox and david davis to negotiate a brexit deal on behalf of this country? i would be devastated to think it was in their hands. with regards to the nuclear issue, i think whatjeremy corbyn said quite clearly is that he would review the situation at that time. the audience were not convinced by that. he does not want incinerate millions of people across the globe, boris would be quite happy to do that. i don't think you understand the logic of nuclear deterrents. you do not understand ordinary people. you helped to
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coordinate this labour campaign... some peace please, boris. you help to coordinate this campaign. had jeremy corbyn rehearsed that issue because it looked like he had not. do you mind? stop being so rude. jeremy corbyn, like any politician worth his salt, on a big evening like this, will discuss all the issues that are likely to be discussed. 0f issues that are likely to be discussed. of course he will have discussed. of course he will have discussed everything and prepared properly because that is the kind of individual he is. we should point out that the biggest cheer of the evening went to the lady who said why we talking about nuclear issues?
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i think millions of people here in the news that british minister has advocated the whole of our nuclear the tarrant. it is notjust our own country that depends on britain being strong, we have allies in nato and around the world who looked to us and around the world who looked to us for a lead, who believed in britain and they will be very disappointed to think that the leader of a major party could perhaps be on the verge of being prime minister next week with that kind of approach. people in brussels listening to what he had to say about lee you will have been flummoxed. it is not clear whether he wants to be inside the single market or outside, inside the customs union or inside. market or outside, inside the customs union or insidelj market or outside, inside the customs union or inside. i have to leave it. here knows that she did not answer the questions on the public sector and the nurses that have had a 40% pay cut and having to
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use food banks. here's never used that the bank and heard never been toa that the bank and heard never been to a good bank. take it back. i want to a good bank. take it back. i want to hear... we can hearfrom jeremy corbyn. this is what he said about the nuclear deterrent. we have to try to protect ourselves, we would not use it as first use, and, if we did use it, millions are going to die. i would decide in the circumstances at the time. would you use it as second—year so which allowed north korea or some idiot in iran to bomb and then say we better start talking? you would be too late. of course not. of course, i would not do that. you would allow
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them to do it. of course not. that is why i made the point is short time ago about the need, the need for president 0bama's deal with iran to be upheld, and to promote disarmament in korea. that is difficult... it is impossible... you are asking a massive wish when you have a massive arsenal by your side. i would rather have it it than not haveit i would rather have it it than not have it at all, especially in this this day and age. d1 to comment on that? no. if it was hot in there it is hot in here. those rows you were just watching are happening around the room. we can go to vicky young who is behind me getting more reaction. it is a bit more sedate
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over here. i am going to disturb the journalists who are filing their copy. and joined by robert hutton from lindbergh. what do you make of it? it is the toughest audience she has faced. they both take a pummelling. it says that in my copy. we got language that was not parliamentary from theresa may, she almost said it would word. it was lively, i thought. she almost said it would word. it was lively, ithought. she got almost said it would word. it was lively, i thought. she got pressed on social care particularly. she looked uncomfortable on social care and on nurses, the moment when the nurse said to her i have not had a pay rise, do not tell me i have had a pay rise. i'm not sure that replying that there is not a magic money tree was very wise. that was too much of a sound bite. you did
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not have the clinton moment where she walked over and said that she felt her pain and asked her to tell her how difficult it was. what did you think ofjeremy corbyn?” thought he did all right initially but then it came unstuck on nuclear weapons and the ira. for many people, they do not remembered the ira and not understand he was part of the peace process. on nuclear weapons, one woman said that he did not want to kill millions of people, but it is not about that, it is about standing up. if you are able to, jeremy corbyn does not sing the national anthem, look scruffy, and he did not do a lot to dispel that. the defence secretary is said that he has never heard a labour leader saying that he would not use nuclear weapons. labour said that to reza
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may does not understand real people, butjeremy may does not understand real people, but jeremy corbyn does not understand economics and how to keep the nation safe. thank you for that. let's talk now to johnathan bartley of the green party. hejoins me from central london. what did you make of the factor was the audience who kept pushing on this of the nuclear deterrent and jeremy corbyn's willingness or not to push the button? he was going really well u p to push the button? he was going really well up to that point, he was making a bold and important vision that we can increase public spending up that we can increase public spending up to the level of germany, who spent 44% of their gdp on public spending. it is not being a communist country it is common sense to invest in public services, like germany. but tried and shows he is
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ina germany. but tried and shows he is in a difficult position. —— but trident shows that. the money could get a curse of life to the nhs, but then why we do it to never use it? it is incredible to say we should not have nuclear weapons, we do not need to the 21st—century, even michael portillo says we do not need it, but to say we have it and not use it is an incredible position to have. what about climate change? theresa may was asked why she did not sign the letter. she said that she had already spoken to donald trump. i thought this was a weak performance from theresa may. you can see why she does not want to debate with anyone, caroline lucas would have exposed on this question is she went head—to—head with her or any other leader. she gives some details of the phone call and it
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seems like she just rolled over and said, ok, you get on with it, but we will not try to persuade you otherwise. we thought that she had some kind of clout audibility, a special relationship with donald trump, but she's that big a responsibility or she has no ability to do it, one or the other, very weak. what would your message have been if it was you on that stage tonight? i get my turn on sunday, i am looking forward to it. my heart went out to theresa may when she did not seem to know we were giving aid to north korea. we should be kinder to north korea. we should be kinder to our politicians when they do not know all their facts and figures, we should raise the level of debate. we would've said that we could be better than this, we can prepare for the 21st—century and have bold ideas, the kind of thing jeremy corbyn was getting into, a basic
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income and the length of the working week, the automation that is good to ta ke week, the automation that is good to take away millions ofjobs and how we deal with that. we can have corporation tax capital for small businesses to create organisations that will withstand the winds of change, while getting taxes from the big corporations and ending this corporate welfare that the conservatives are giving away and running away the public services because they no longer have the money to invest in them. thank you for that. ten gallon nicola sturgeon will have their chance that a similar event in edinburgh on sunday. now we can go to sophie long, who is outside the venue. thank you very much. we are outside the venue and we are joined by four members of the audience, including abigail who started proceedings. you
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we re abigail who started proceedings. you were not messing around. your question was about trust. it was about whether we can trust theresa may to deliver policies and whether we can trust at all her backsliding. were you satisfied with her and so? it wasn't really am so, it was just what she had rehearsed and what she wa nted what she had rehearsed and what she wanted to see. not really. in terms of the rest of the debate, what did you think? it was great, it was great fun and the audience were lively. but they did dodge questions and they did seem rehearsed. you are and they did seem rehearsed. you are a ukip photo? that is right. you are a ukip photo? that is right. you are a conservative activists. what question did you put a jeremy corbyn and white? the national living wage is going to lead the people losing their jobs. is going to lead the people losing theirjobs. jeremy corbyn wants to increase the national living wage even further. i asked him for how
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manyjobs would be lost and he skipped that one and vaguely answered his next question. good honest politics was not seen tonight. did you learn anything from jeremy corbyn? i learnt that he is allergic to red buttons and that is about it. we will move on to that in about it. we will move on to that in a moment. in terms of theresa may, you obviously support her, what did you obviously support her, what did you think of her performance because she became a little bit unstuck on social care, which you must be prepared for. the main thing people are criticising her for was the change in manifesto and i think she was trying to get across that the details were missing from the manifesto, they have not necessarily been changed. she did a reasonable job trying to explain it but at some point i think she got flustered, although point i think she got flustered, althoutheremy point i think she got flustered, although jeremy corbyn got more flustered. you pick the first
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question to him about the nuclear button. what did you think?” question to him about the nuclear button. what did you think? i came very open—minded to the discussion onjeremy corbyn very open—minded to the discussion on jeremy corbyn and theresa may and i'm still undecided. i had high hopes forjeremy corbyn until he did not answer the question on trident. sol not answer the question on trident. so i pushed again on the red button issue. basically, he shot me down like an enemy. i had high hopes that during the brexit referendum he was conspicuous by his absence, then through the process that this election he has come out of his shell and he is going for it and taking a fight to the tories. but on this issue, he has no backbone. you asked about his policies on anti—semitism, but what did you think about his performance as a
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whole and theresa may?” think about his performance as a whole and theresa may? i think they both had strengths and weaknesses and they both tried to avoid the question are directed to them, but jeremy corbyn says one thing and does another. it is all very well him saying that he opposes anti—semitism and he's against terrorism and racism, but having an anti—semitic member of his party and anti—somatic affiliations while calling terrorists as friends. one word answer, that this evening's debate change the way you think in any way at all? i am more informed. more

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