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tv   Asian Network Big Election Debate  BBC News  June 3, 2017 12:30am-1:01am BST

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the head of the us environmental protection agency, scott pruitt, said president trump's decision to exit the paris climate accord does not mean disengagement. he said world leaders could decide whether to negotiate a new deal. the former new york mayor michael bloomberg said americans will meet their commitments on climate change, and said cities, states and companies we re said cities, states and companies were coming together and washington would not stop them. the son of an indian immigrant who is ireland's first openly gay minister is now set to become its prime minister. the over that coal is elected as the biggest party in ireland's coalition government. a dutch court ruled dna tests can be carried out on items belonging to a dead doctor in a case brought by people conceived at a fertility clinic. —— leo varadkar. now on bbc news, asian network's big election debate. welcome to the asian network's big
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election debate. we are on the asian network, and the bbc news channel. i'm nomia iqbal, here in the splendid alga concert hall at the university of birmingham, and on stage here in the concert hall. with me is our audience, people from all different backgrounds, different political allegiances, and with just one week to go before the big vote, they have a lot of questions about a wide range of issues. they will be putting those questions to our panel of gu ests putting those questions to our panel of guests from different political parties. with us today is shailesh va ra parties. with us today is shailesh vara from the conservatives, khalid masood mood from labour, baroness sheehan from the liberal democrats, bob —— bob dhillon from ukip, and leanne wood from plaid cymru.
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following the horrific terror attack in manchester last week, campaigning for the election had been suspended. of course it has now resumed. but the events of manchester are still very much on people's minds. i was in the city reporting and i am from manchester. there were a lot of questions being asked in the aftermath. let's begin the debate today with talking about what happened in manchester, looking at some of the issues that came from it. let's go to our first question. in light of the recent atrocities committed in manchester, should muslims do more to condemn terrorism within their communities? shailesh va ra within their communities? shailesh vara from the conservatives? let me express my deepest sympathies and condolences for the family and friends of those who tragically lost their lives in what was basically a very wicked and evil act. it has been condemned by the whole world. as faras been condemned by the whole world. as far as community engagement has
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been concerned, of course. there ought to be engagement by every citizen in the uk. but given that many of the people who are engaging in this activity come from the a political community, it is right everyone is vigilant. it may mean if you are suspicious of an individual, reporting them to the police. of course there will be some reluctance oi'i course there will be some reluctance on the part of people to report individuals that they know, love and ca re individuals that they know, love and care about to police, but what i would say to those individuals is to just look at the pain and anguish that has been caused to all of the families and friends of... because of those innocent lives that were taken of those innocent lives that were ta ken away. it of those innocent lives that were taken away. it mightjust be the case that if someone is reported, we mightjust be case that if someone is reported, we might just be stopping case that if someone is reported, we mightjust be stopping future tragedies such as that. so, you think the responsibility is for everybody, but specifically the muslim community? i think that given
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the background of many of the people who engage in terrorist activities is from the muslim community and certainly i would ask that the muslim community is vigilant. that is not to say that it is the exclusive responsibility of the muslim community, because many individuals go to colleges and work, and mixing everyday society. they are mixing with mainstream society. all of us have a responsibility.” will come back to the rest of the panel but i want to ask you, do you think that it is the slim's responsibility to condemn terrorism? —— muslims. i think it is everyone's responsibility to condemn terrorism but there is clearly a problem within some aspects, a very small minority, of the muslim community that i do not think the solution is to ignore it and say that itjust is not there, because a significant portion, if not a majority of terror attacks we see, are committed by
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those supporting these ideologies, essentially. bob dhillon, ukip? my sympathies again go to the people of manchester. we have to go back to the 19705, when we look at british policy which has gone wrong. basically, what we have done is funded the5e terrori5t basically, what we have done is funded the5e terrorist groups in the 19705 and 19805 to overthrow ru55ian regimes in afghanistan and various other middle east countries. that is where the policy 5tarted. then, what we did secondly, wa5 where the policy started. then, what we did secondly, was the secret services were qualified people who we re services were qualified people who were replaced by cronies, by tony blair, who put cronies in to get the result that he wanted for the iraq war, with no plan b. when you destroy a country, which iraq was quite a nice country from when i visited it to what it is now, and have no plan b, and when people see that, they have this hate in them.
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you are linking terrorism to past behaviours? yes. whatever the issues are, we cannot blame any single policy young people's lives, people who have wanted to go out to enjoy their evening who have wanted to go out to enjoy theirevening and who have wanted to go out to enjoy their evening and barbarically killed those very young people in the way that they have done. back to the way that they have done. back to the original question, the issue is that a vast majority of the muslim community condemns it out right, and idid an community condemns it out right, and i did an article at the weekend in a newspaper saying what the question said, that is small minority of people need to come forward and be pa rt people need to come forward and be part of the whole solution, and not continue to be the problem. the muslim community has a responsibility because that is what the perception is. these people are from the muslim community, so we have to deal with that. of course it isa have to deal with that. of course it is a responsibility for all of us to deal with that. it affects all of us
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in ourdaily deal with that. it affects all of us in our daily lives but it is important that we cooperate with authorities and explain that when we hear something, as trivial as you may think it is, it is best to pass it to authorities. your party leader, jeremy corbyn, linked foreign policy with what happens? he hasn't. he has. he has not linked it, people keep getting this wrong. he said if we are called upon on the international arena in such a way, we should think about it, as we did in syria. there was a vote, the labour party stood against and did not vote for it. it is a key step change in relation to how we move it forward. we need to look at those issues, and there can be no correlation with people acting deliberately, barbarically, to take people's lives in this country. it cannot be linked in that way. leanne? i am interested in understanding what it is that motivates people to carry out such barbaric and callous acts,
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especially against young children. i think the target audience here was particularly... it makes it a particularly... it makes it a particularly barbaric act. i used to work as a probation officer, and what they do is try and understand the root causes of people's behaviour. i think while it is the responsibility of every single citizen to be vigilant and to take action, there are things that the muslim community can help with here. you mentioned ideology, and i think that there is a real issue about challenging ideology and really understanding the ideology driving this, and being able to argue and counter it. i am interested to know if some of you think, actually, muslims should not bear the responsibility. they are always being asked to condemn these attacks and it isn't fair. can we bring the microphone to this gentleman? the idea that nobody is saying that these attacks are ok, no such
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attacks are ok but the idea of the muslim community should be guilty by association is fundamentally problematic. ideologies are dangerous. nobody is saying that but it is how people feel, right? ideologies are dangerous across—the—board and they need to be challenged across the board. the community is challenging, we need serious questions about cuts when the muslim community was the one reporting salman abedi a multiple numberof reporting salman abedi a multiple number of times. we need a real discussion about what is happening here and what is happening with intelligence, and the idea that went something like this is perpetuated by someone specifically in a community that the entire community is to blame but when jo cox was murdered, there was no blame on the community, it was "just some guy". but we know that there are dangers and to what happened in preston the other day, with white supremacist ideology. it is murderous. we need to talk about what we all do rather
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than saying some of us are guilty by association, which we are not. baroness sheehan? let me express my deepest sympathy for the families and loved ones of the 22 people who we re and loved ones of the 22 people who were brutally murdered. can i pay tribute to the emergency services who came forward so fantastically for us, and the nhs which was exemplary and illustrates, if it needed illustrating, how important thatis needed illustrating, how important that is to us. mancunians themselves stood shoulder to shoulder and refused to be divided by this act of atrocity. that is really to be welcomed. as a muslim, i do not identify with that version of islam, which is perverted. for a long time, muslims like myself had been saying to the government, please do something to tackle the infiltration of this pernicious brand of islam
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thatis of this pernicious brand of islam that is coming to us in our country, and other countries around the world, which is being exported by saudi arabia. the wahab riaz strain, which is allowed to preach in our mosques here, it needs to be tackled andi mosques here, it needs to be tackled and i am ashamed we still called the saudi regime friends and sell arms to them —— wahhabism. those arms are used by the saudis to kill civilians in yemen, and we allow that to happen. i think this is part and parcel of the same issue and the same problem. it must be tackled at the roots. let me pick up on that point, i heard a lot in manchester about the double standard of the government when it came to saudi arabia. clearly there are
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conversations that go on between governments... but it is about stopping the sale of arms... can i just say... it isn't as simple as that. there is a huge amount of engagement with countries, and a huge amount of trade, a huge amount of dialogue. a huge amount of travel between people, back and forth. in a civilised world, we often try to talk to people, rather than take brutal action. on the whole, that civilised action of dialogue does... we see the world very differently.” have a couple of people with questions... can i go to the lady at the back burst? what we are saying is trade is more important to us than our morals? —— feedback first. let me finish, i need to say this. saudi arabia are committing human
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rights atrocities, it is agreed by the un, some of the things that they are guilty of, it is awful some of the things that they do but we trade with these people and have a convex relationship with them. why can we not bring that into the conversation, —— complex. seeing as they are an enormous trade partner? the baroness mentioned it is mainly based on arms, is that our business? what our country wants to be known as? the arms country? let's become back to that. i am not saying that trade trumps human rights, whatever. if you look at international figures of the numberof if you look at international figures of the number of countries where they have questionable human rights, you would be surprised at the number of countries. it is notjust saudi arabia that may be on any list, there are a lot of countries where ordinarily people go there and go on holidays too. we need to take uniform action and be consistent in
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the action we take, rather than picking on one country which, for various reasons, may be higher in the media profile than others. before we go further, we were due to have the snp here but they released a statement. due to circumstances beyond his control, their representative was unable to attend despite looking forward to taking pa rt despite looking forward to taking part in the debate. just that statement, to let you know, if you are wondering why the snp are not he. let's pick up on that. —— why the snp are not here. khalid mahmood, keep it brief? the first question about the far right and islamic terrorists. that does not blame any community, there are individuals that we need to resolve, it does not blame the whole of the muslim community or indigenous community in terms of supremacists. it is not tit—for—tat, and when we get away from that kind of thing,
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the supremacists are doing this, it is ok to do that... none of it is 0k, is ok to do that... none of it is ok, that needs to be clear. in terms of arms and human rights, ok, that needs to be clear. in terms ofarms and human rights, and ok, that needs to be clear. in terms of arms and human rights, and what we do, we need to seriously look at this. we will look at whether we wa nt to this. we will look at whether we want to continue with the industry we have. america signed a $135 billion deal with saudi arabia. that is exactly what i am saying. there area number of is exactly what i am saying. there are a number of countries that in terms of what they are doing has a worse record. look at china. lets just... let's just wind worse record. look at china. lets just... let'sjust wind up here. i'm also pointing out india... we have a lot of people to get through. in punjab... i want to get back... come on...i punjab... i want to get back... come on... iwant punjab... i want to get back... come on... i want to bring up police cuts. many have mentioned this. this
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was something that the conservative government were accused of, following the aftermath of the manchester bombings. your party cut the number of police, 20,000 in england and wales. if there were more police on the streets, this wouldn't have happened ? more police on the streets, this wouldn't have happened? first of all, let me say there are two issues. as far as general policing issues. as far as general policing is concerned, crime is down by one third. crime is down by one third, notwithstanding... but violent crime... notwithstanding that we have had police cuts. this tells you that it have had police cuts. this tells you thatitis have had police cuts. this tells you that it is more thanjust numbers and bodies on the streets. for example... you can have a situation, i have been to these centres, where you have a couple of police officers sat ina you have a couple of police officers sat in a room, watching 20 or 30 video screens because they had cctv cameras. they can look to see where there are difficulties and direct police cars to those areas of
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difficulty, rather than having 30 times two police officers sat there when there isn't much activity. we need to look at how policing is done. i don't know where you have been living or sleeping with crime being cut and going down, i can show you and you can talk to me after, it hasn't. that is in la la land. independent analysis on these figures... carjackings and everything... it is all thrown in, mad. you are sleeping somewhat. this is real, street talk. —— it is all thrown in, madam. i have one of the largest electorates in the country. people i have represented in the la st people i have represented in the last 12 years, it is one of the largest electorates in mainland britain, i have my earto largest electorates in mainland britain, i have my ear to the ground andl britain, i have my ear to the ground and i can tell you, i speak to police on a regular basis... it is not where i am living. we will have two agree to disagree. yet, the
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individuation is there whenever you wa nt individuation is there whenever you want to come around. and to you too. back to your question? with hate crime on the list, what are they doing to tackle the issue? bob dhillon, what will you do? what would ukip do? with hate crime on the rise. we have seen some insta nces following the rise. we have seen some instances following what happened in manchester. mosques being bombed. ukip are fuelling it. they are fuelling it. applause i don't believe so... paul nuttall came out the next day saying that he was right about that? his manifesto says that he wants to ban the bercow. to stop radicalisation, they
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need to overcome hate crime —— burqa. i want to make sure that police crackdown on any hate in any community. did you agree with your pa rty‘s community. did you agree with your party's policy of banning the burqa? in today's modern society, covering the face is not required.” disagree. do you really have the right to tell people what to wear? what to tell women to wear? i know there is a security issue but we live in a democracy, or we try to. i feel that politicians are constantly coming to young people and the generation at election time. where the hell are you for the rest of the year? you come to us at election time when you want our votes. people like us, the undecided voters, you say... this is what we will do for young people... we throw millions of pounds into mental health services,
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we throw billions of pounds into the nhs. why do we not see that money in practice, where is it on the ground? on that point you make about the burqa. leanne wood's point about it fuelling hate. do you agree? completely. i have known young women to be walking down the road with headscarves, and they've had their headscarves, and they've had their headscarves ripped off them. 16—year—olds. that is assault. headscarves ripped off them. 16-year-olds. that is assault. yes, and a lot of the time people get away with it. these young women are scared to leave their houses and do everyday normal things, and it is u na cce pta ble everyday normal things, and it is unacceptable how people get away with this. i am from kent. i've unacceptable how people get away with this. lam from kent. i've been walking down the road and people have accused me... have you got a bomb in your bag? no. i am having to justify myself to you, as a young muslim. i had to show my bag and say actually, i have curry in my bag. do i need to show you that i have food in my bag? what kind of world do we live in? the stories are not rare,
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whose fault is it? i think some of the language that we have been hearing that the referendum campaign is really fuelling this. some of the images that the campaign, i know there are different versions of the league campaign, but the one led by my ukip person here on the left, i'm not quite able to call him a colleague, but the one led by his leader, nigel farage, when he stood in front of that revolting poster of desperate syrian refugees saying, what was it? "breaking point". those images leave a lasting impact and they fuel some of the hate crime that we see. one week after the referendum... those posters were used in germany in the 19305. if you look at the two posters side—by—side they are carbon copies. the evidence, the week after the campaign, recorded hate crime went
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up campaign, recorded hate crime went up 43%. it says it all. campaign, recorded hate crime went up 4396. it says it all. can i bring in shailesh vara? when we talk about these issues, it needs to be done so sensibly. what we say has consequences. i voted to remain in the referendum campaign that some of the referendum campaign that some of the language used could have been worded differently. and spoken in a more sensitive matter. there was a rise in hate crime and as a society, we need to deal with it. the police forces dealt with them the best they could and it was wonderful to see the british community rally round as well. i also remember at the time that while there was an increase in hate crime, there were millions of people throughout the country who took the view and said actually, i do not like this. in small communities all over the place they we re communities all over the place they were giving comfort to those receiving hate mail through their
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letterboxes and so on. it was a very sad and regrettable incident in terms of hate crime and it continues, but i am pleased to say the strength of this country is that the strength of this country is that the majority of people are fair—minded and decent. the majority of people are fair-minded and decent. but that does not help if you are a muslim attacked in the street? i'm not saying that hate crime does not exist, it does. it is growing. i think, khalid mahmood, ifjeremy corbyn becomes prime minister, what is he planning to do to tackle this kind of hate crime? he is planning to introduce 10,000 more police onto the streets of our communities. in terms of having police officers... a5 terms of having police officers... as an example, i would prefer pcsos on the ground. i have a fantastic pcso in my community, rob, he is
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fantastic. he goes to people's houses and sees what is going on. let's not be reacting but be proactive in relation to police. those cuts have been made, jeremy corbyn is going to increase the police forces to do that. other comments on crime, it is going up. if you look at proper crime figures, in terms of burglary, personal safety, knife crime... it has gone up safety, knife crime... it has gone up tremendously because we do not have those people. i live in my constituency, in my street. we see what is going on. i have people from my constituency with issues in relation to this and i speak to the local people every day. that is what is going on. they cannot put up with it. you have an incident and you waited a few hours before police turn up as they don't have resources. we need police back on the streets, not looking at some monitors, or doing an itjob. that is someone else'sjob. the police need to gain intelligence on the
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ground to be proactive. one more question, i believe? bedene? —— the . when will the british electorate be ready to vote for an asian prime minister? we thought we would end with a light question!” minister? we thought we would end with a light question! i think the question is simple here. when will the political parties been a —— be ina the political parties been a —— be in a position to elect a leader who can then be prime minister? we don't operate an american system. until we get the political parties to elect someone as a get the political parties to elect someone as a leader, then they become prime minister which is the way forward. the liberal democrats, as you know, have nine mps. sadly, we lost quite a lot in the previous parliament. or black. no, we do not have seats like labour and the conservatives where you can
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parachute in asian candidates, i'm afraid. if we did have an asian mp, and who is of the right calibre, it is not about tokenism. if they were of the right calibre, then they would surely become prime minister. but it would need eu to elect liberal democrat mps. —— but it would need you. did you comment? the conservatives had the first jewish prime minister with benjamin disraeli, and two women prime ministers. i disraeli, and two women prime ministers. lam disraeli, and two women prime ministers. i am confident the first asian prime minister would be the conservatives as our —— because of out conservatives as our —— because of our track record. i would like to say as soon as our track record. i would like to say as soon as possible. that is all from us here in birmingham from the elgar concert hall with the asian network big election debate. one week today the polls open. you are voting for the mps who represent us
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in parliament and the prime minister. apologies to our audience, we could not cover all of your questions. but our politicians will be around a short while c can ask any questions you did not get the chance to. from me, the audience, and our guests, goodbye. once again, the weekend weather prospects can be summed up as a mix of sunny spells and showers. there needs to be an exception to the rule. it could not be that straightforward! it comes in the form of an area of cloud. remnants of rain on the eastern side of the pennines. it becomes wet as it d rifts into pennines. it becomes wet as it drifts into the eastern side of scotland, in the afternoon, joined bya scotland, in the afternoon, joined by a raft of showers from the west, affecting northern ireland. odd showers to the western side of
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england and wales. top temperatures of 21-22d. a england and wales. top temperatures of 21—22d. a fresh start on sunday, dry weather, clouding things up in south—west wales. some rain here. a smattering of showers for scotland and northern ireland. again, a lot of dry and fine weather elsewhere. top temperatures, a fresh feeling 18,19, top temperatures, a fresh feeling 18, 19, 20. top temperatures, a fresh feeling 18,19,20. something of that order at the very best. on monday, watch out for some very wet and windy weather. goodbye. this is bbc news. i'm gavin grey. our top stories... brexit, nuclear weapons and the future of social care. voters quiz theresa may and jeremy corbyn ahead of the uk election. the european union and china team up to say they'll keep the paris climate agreement alive — whatever president trump does. president trump said he was elected to serve the voters of pittsburgh — not paris. but what do pittsburgh voters think about his climate decision? and ireland's set to
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have a new prime minister — an openly—gay son of an indian immigrant.
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