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tv   Victoria Derbyshire  BBC News  June 5, 2017 9:00am-11:01am BST

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good morning. it is monday, nine o'clock. police investigating the terror attack in central london on saturday night say they now know the identity of the three men who killed seven people and injured dozens of others. the very high priority for us others. the very high priority for us is to try to understand whether they were working with anyone else, whether anybody else was involved with the planning. to find out the background to it. police are searching two addresses in east london. prime minister theresa may has been chairing a cobra meeting. the so—called islamic state group has claimed responsibility. when we do intervene in foreign policy we are blamed byjihadists, such as in iraq. where we don't intervene, like in syria, we are blamed again byjihadists for not caring about muslim lives. the first victim of the attack has been named as christine archibald, who was from canada. her family said she would have had no understanding
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of the callous cruelty that caused her death. in a show of unity, defiance and hope, some of the worlds leading artists joined forces with ariane grade to raise money for the 22 people killed in a suicide bombing at that concert in manchester last month. i love you guys so much, and i think that the kind of love and unity that you're displaying is the medicine that the world really needs right now. so i want to thank you for being just that. hello, good morning. this is borough market in south—east london and this is where three men, armed with knives, attacked revellers from all over the world on saturday night in
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bars and over the world on saturday night in bars a nd restau ra nts over the world on saturday night in bars and restaurants as they were out having a good time. this morning, it is chilly, it is breezy, the rows behind me are closed because there is a police investigation going on. over that way, vehicles and people... excuse me. although not as many as usual on monday morning, vehicles and people are trying to find their way around the closed roads. london bridge is closed to traffic. that is where the three men in that white van zigzagged across the bridge and run into pedestrians. it is open to pedestrians this morning. i was talking to one woman who always crosses that bridge, walks across it every morning on her way to work. she said it was eerily quiet this morning. tonight, a vigil will be held to mark the terror attack this weekend that killed seven people and left d oze ns weekend that killed seven people and left dozens of others seriously injured. onto the bridge on the left—hand
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side here, i saw a body on the left. there was a car with the hazard lights on. it was a cyclist, so i feel it's just another accident, another cyclist, and then i saw two bodies on the right—hand side, towards northbound. and then i had to stop at the traffic lights and i saw another body on the left next to the bus stop. and they run up, they stabbed this girl, i don't know how many times, ten times, maybe 15 times. she was going, "help me, help me," and i could not do nothing. they were saying, "this is for allah," and people, you could hear them screaming, they were getting stabbed. loud bangs. many, many people risked their own safety to help others and to treat those seriously injured, and indeed to confront the suspects involved. the suspects were wearing
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what looked like explosive vests, but these were later established to be hoaxes. our country has made significant progress in disrupting plots and protecting the public. but it is time to say enough is enough. overnight, police have been searching properties in london as pa rt searching properties in london as part of the investigation. detectives are trying to establish if the three attackers had accomplices. 11 people are being held. we are going to talk to people that were caught up in the attacks. sonia malhotra—denny was paying the bill at a restaurant in the heart of the siege and had to hide in a broom cupboard. your husband is here as well.
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eric swiguenza was on the bridge and saw the van run people over before the attackers went on a rampage. and richard angell was trapped in a restaurant as the attackers tried to break in. you are well—known now. "if they have a problem with me having a g&t with my friends, flirting with handsome men and hanging out with brilliant women, then i'm going to do more of it." that is how you feel? manchester showed amazing response to such hate two we see go, now falls to london to do the same. i think all of us are determined that this will not divide us. they didn't discriminate about their victims, they didn't do it in the name of any faith, they did it in the name of hatred and act
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of cowardice. what i saw was brilliant people who responded, somebody who gave us a heads up when they could have run away, somebody threw tables at these people when they were stabbing a young woman, somebody that put their way in front of the door so that people in my restaurant were safe. the police force have swept the streets really quickly. it felt like an age, but it was a short minutes and we were safe again. when we were meandering from the streets, avoiding shoes that people had kicked off, the blood, they had our eyes and ears. and the paramedics who ran towards danger, then turn their back on danger to put together the life in front of them. while we are running for our lives. they are remarkable people and great londoners. where were you and great londoners. where were you and what happened 7 and great londoners. where were you and what happened? we were in the brindisa, paying for our meal. a man came up and said, everybody get up
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and run, they are stabbing people, they have knives. we are showing the footage that you cook. we looked at him, nobody reacted for a second. he said, get up, move, it's a terrorist attack. we got up, another man came m, attack. we got up, another man came in, shouting something similar. it was all open, it was a nice evening. we hid on the floor, as it is open, it is hard to find somewhere to hide. luckily, we found that some people had opened up a room at the back. it was like a tiny storeroom. i shouted to my husband don said, i shouted to my husband don said, __'| i shouted to my husband don said, ——, i said, come on, let's run. i shouted to my husband don said, --, i said, come on, let's run. we we re very --, i said, come on, let's run. we were very fortunate that we could find refuge in there. i know others we re find refuge in there. i know others were far less fortunate than we were in that restaurant. we read about oliver and maria that were in the
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restau ra nt oliver and maria that were in the restaurant at the same time, the same age as others, a couple like us, that unfortunately didn't have time to get to safety. we are just thinking about them at the moment. of course, as we all are. eric, hello to you. you managed to film some footage as well. we can play that now, i hope. that is mad. that terrorists. what he showed chaos, really. i know
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you have had no sleep since saturday, thanks for talking to us. we are saturday, thanks for talking to us. we a re really saturday, thanks for talking to us. we are really grateful. tell us what you saw and where you were? we are really grateful. tell us what you saw and where you were ?|j we are really grateful. tell us what you saw and where you were? i was with a friend, trying to get across to monument. we saw the van driving on the wrong side of the road. the front had been smashed in, you could only see one headlight. it kept going to the left and right as if it was trying to stop. i first thought was trying to stop. i first thought was that maybe the brakes had failed and this was a genuine accident. when it collided into a wall, people we re when it collided into a wall, people werejumping when it collided into a wall, people were jumping out of the way. nobody got hurt from the initial impact of the van, but as soon as the three men stepped out, that is when, insta ntly, men stepped out, that is when, instantly, they started attacking people. they ran at them with knives, kicking them, just showing anger in their faces. that is when me and my friend didn't really know what to do. they made their way downstairs to southwark cathedral, where they had bars and pubs. people
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we re where they had bars and pubs. people were outside, enjoying themselves. that is when they went down there, started attacking people. people didn't know what to do, they didn't know what was happening. most of them were caught off—guard, there we re them were caught off—guard, there were getting stabbed, people were in disbelief as to what was happening. but they got to the end, people realise what was happening and try to defend themselves, throwing chairs, whatever they could to defend themselves. that is when the terrorists realised they were outnumbered and they turned around to head back towards the bridge. u nfortu nately to head back towards the bridge. unfortunately there was a woman standing with her bag, trying to realise what was going on. she was in the way and they stabbed her, she felt the ground and they finished thejob, stabbing felt the ground and they finished the job, stabbing her again. felt the ground and they finished thejob, stabbing heragain. the third one had disappeared. i don't know if he was making his way back up know if he was making his way back up bridge towards us. that is why we decided it was best to run away and tell everybody they needed to get out. extraordinary tales of people
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trying to take on the attackers, and of duty police officer, british transport police officer. i think you saw people throwing stuff at these attackers? a remarkable man through bottles, tables, he tried to throw a bike. through bottles, tables, he tried to throwa bike. he put our through bottles, tables, he tried to throw a bike. he put our lives before his. i don't know who will be able to meet the people that did heroic acts saved all of our lives. we want to know they are remarkable people and we are so thankful. we are safe because of them. you are grateful for those people, you are safe because of them. you are gratefulfor those people, you have said you feel so incredibly lucky. monday morning, after this happened, you have had at least 2a hours to reflect on this, what are you feeling? similar. just really lucky, and really unlucky at the same time.
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right now, all of our emotions and feelings are going towards people that had bad news, and whose families woke up to bad news. it was ha rd families woke up to bad news. it was hard enough for us having seen it. i can't imagine what it would be like if it was worse. we are positive, but it is all about the victims. last night, the manchester concert really showed the unity and solidarity that this kind of event brings. we are bringing people together, it will not divide us. it has made us stronger. we just have to get on. we have them in our thoughts, but we have to move forward. how are you feeling? i was speaking with friends and family yesterday. they were saying how lucky me and my friend were to escape with our lives. we know that many other people were not as lucky as us. many other people were not as lucky as us. we just think that now you
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ta ke as us. we just think that now you take into perspective that sometimes you just have to carry on with your life, even though you come across these obstacles. you just have to keep your head held high and keep striving to move forward. what about you, richard? you want to say a life goes on and do keep remembering the seven people for whom it doesn't. you know, to be one of those family members that are sitting by somebody‘s bed right now, hoping that they come through, their experiences are ones where they need that time to reflect. i am going back to the restaurant that i went to come i think others are as well. i have a bill to pay. you got to pay yours i have a bill to pay. you got to pay youi’s come i have a bill to pay. you got to pay yours come i need to pay my bill. i think they deserve a darn good tip for running in front of the door, finding the key, keeping us safe. these are people that weren't always born in london, but they are londoners today and amazing part of oui’ londoners today and amazing part of our great city. i don't what small business to lose outcome i don't what the great diversity of our city
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to lose out. i have a friend from sydney, and i hope i will host more people from all places around the world in the greatest city in the world. that is how determined we are on the back of that. do any of you feel slightly apprehensive as this is the third terror attack in this country in three months? it is a bit more raw than you would like, maybe a bit more vigilant in the immediate aftermath. to a degree, yes. but i think richard said it all. we've got to continue to celebrate this great city, great country. is it ok if people don't feel defiant? totally 0k. people don't feel defiant? totally ok. we will all respond in different ways. my nerves feel shot. ifeel the hear a loud noise, it makes me jump the hear a loud noise, it makes me jump slightly more. all of us have gone through it in different ways.
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there are not enough support services out there for people. i don't know where to start finding them. i think we need to make sure them. i think we need to make sure the government, other people are making services available to people. it is really hard to go through. manchester has shown the way and london needs follow quickly. thank you all. thank you very much. thank you all. thank you very much. thank you. the sub—prime chairing a meeting of cobra, that's the emergency committee meeting this morning. norman smith is at downing street. hi norman, what's the latest from there? well, the pm is getting a briefing on what the police know now andi briefing on what the police know now and i suppose central will be trying to understand more about these three terrorists, were they as islamic state claim a detachment of islamic state claim a detachment of islamic state fighters or were they a much looser group of maybe friends or neighbours who became radicalised?
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they will try and get some sort of understanding of who these people we re understanding of who these people were and then they will want to get a clearer picture of was there any support by other people? is there a wider group who provided them with some sort of information, organisation, just to get a feel on how significant a threat these three we re how significant a threat these three were and then they will want to move on to the actual specific measures that might now be put in place and i guess one area which of course is going to be looked at is security on bridges because obviously we had the westminster bridge attack and now this one and if you go around london, many parts of london, there is bollards in most of the main streets to stop vehicles from going up streets to stop vehicles from going up on the pavement. if you go across the bridges, they are not so that would seem one area where we may see some changes and they will want to look at a greater police presence, a visible police presence as a way of trying to offer reassurance to people after this attack, but my thinking is we may get a clearer
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idea of what the prime minister is thinking in terms of counter—terrorism strategy and addressing radicalisation from a speech she is going to be giving straight after cobra in which we might geta straight after cobra in which we might get a clearer sense of what she now regards as the next steps and we know some of it. we know she wa nts and we know some of it. we know she wants some sort of deal with the internet companies to get some sort of regulation of cyberspace. so far that's proved hugely difficult. very, very hard. some tory mps talking about could we fine these companies if they don't take down terrorist material? they have their operations in california or wherever, it is very difficult to see how do you that. we know too the prime minister is looking at beefing up prime minister is looking at beefing up the so—called prevent prevent strategy, the deregulation strategy, for money and more resources for that. there maybe a review of the su ccesses that. there maybe a review of the successes to control orders which impose a sort of house arrest on people, widespread view at
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westminster they are not tough enough and the last area, perhaps the most contentious area is this idea of confronting the ideology, trying to end the safe space in some communities where these sort of ideas are allowed to grow and i think we'll get that broader sense of the prime minister's approach after cobra in this speech. thank you very much, norman, norman smith at downing street. he will be back with updates as you would expect throughout the day. police investigating the terror attack say they know the identity of the three men who killed seven people and injured dozens of others and they say their names will be released as soon as operationally possible. we will talk to richard kemp. we will talk to someone who monitors the social media accounts
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of allegedjihadists. monitors the social media accounts of alleged jihadists. good morning to you all. let me start with you richard kemp. the third terrorist attack to hit this country in three months. what's going wrong? well, it's not the third terrorist attack, it's not the third terrorist attack, it's the third successful one. it is the eighth in that period since the attack on westminster bridge. because five have been thwarted. that gives an indication. the security services and the police stopped so many attacks with professionalism, but the reality is they have got too many targets to deal with to be able to guarantee or stand a chance of guaranteeing that something isn't going to get through as we have seen in the last couple of months. 0k. as we have seen in the last couple of months. ok. in terms of potentially our security officials being overwhelmed, at any one time, we know mi5 are looking at 500 active investigations. there are
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23,000 potentialjihadists according to them in this country and 3,000 subjects of interest. is richard kemp right, somebody is going to get through because there are so many to try and monitor? well, i think richard is correct. the scale of the problem is huge at the moment and long before these attacks materialised the police and the security services were warning that something would get through the net and unfortunately we saw the first one get through in westminster about ten weeks ago now and what happens with terrorism is that once you have a successful plot it then inspires others who are like minded to try and replicate that and that has provided a boom as we have seen over the last three months to other actors as well who want to engage in this type of activity. philip, as a former intelligence officer, does that mean we have to be vigilant in case there are further attacks? of course, case there are further attacks? of course , we case there are further attacks? of course, we have to be vigilant in case there are further attacks. the
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security state we are at the moment is saying that further attacks are probable and the intelligence services will be looking at how they can try and identify them with the lessons they are picking up from the ones they haven't identified as quickly as possible. theresa may said we had been too tolerant of extremism, do you agree? totally. the finger pointed at a number of people including politicians, the government, previous governments, over many yea rs government, previous governments, over many years now as well as local communities, political parties, there is just too communities, political parties, there isjust too much emphasis communities, political parties, there is just too much emphasis on there is just too much emphasis on the rights and the human rights of the rights and the human rights of the individuals who are involved in extremism over their potential victims and we are entering a very, very dangerous period. we are in a dangerous period. he is right when he says that terrorists imitate one another and inspire one another, but we have got at least 400 people now back from the islamic state, they have been raping, and carrying out
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mass murder and torture in iraq and syria. here they are, blood on their hands, trained and directed to kill and more to return so we're going to be facing more of this in a much more serious threat than we have ever had before. what we must do is stop anymore coming back. there are another 400 at least who haven't been killed in the islamic state who will return if they are allowed to. that has to be stopped. theresa may is right, we have to be less tolera nt is right, we have to be less tolerant and we have to take the gruffs off and use the legislation that's available to us now to stop it. you don't have to have been to the training camps of syria and iraq to hirea the training camps of syria and iraq to hire a white van and take a 12 inch knife to people having a good time ona inch knife to people having a good time on a saturday night, do you? what we have seen in recent years is the dumbing down of terrorism if i can use that phrase. they will use a vehicle a knife, in order to launch an atrocity of the kind we have seen in london in the last couple of days. a plot then involves a
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returnee will be more sophisticated, it will involve more likely an explosive device and those plots tend to take more lives because the actors involved have a degree of expertise and sophistication, but comes as no comfort to the victims who are caught up in these things. simplistic methods can take lives and bring capital cities like london toa and bring capital cities like london to a halt. in addition to their expertise in terrorist attacks some of the returners are likely to be inspiring and motivating and recruiting and generally upping the tempo of the terrorist attack. theresa may talked about further count irterrorism legislation, we have had dozen of pieces of counter—terrorism legislation introduced since 2000. is there much left to legislate against and will it make much difference? the adjustment to the legislation will be important and the government being proactive into the array of where the attackers are being
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motivated and that's through the internet and through grooming areas, notjust facebook internet and through grooming areas, not just facebook and twitter who are co—operating, but telegram and they have refused to co—operate with they have refused to co—operate with the international community, but trying to get them to take material down is only one step, trying to be proactive to counter that material online and get counter messages in place is what the prime minister will have to consider as part of this changing of the strategy.|j mean, this changing of the strategy.” mean, what do you do with a messaging app like telegram which is encrypted end to end? what are you suggesting? well, there are ways of looking at it. there is the means of trying to look at the content and the different methods that in there, but a lot is very well hiddenment they are extremely well trained in cyber security protective measures. the other way is to try and pen grate the groups in the same way that the security services penetrated terrorist groups in
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northern ireland, the same happens in different parts of the world. it isa in different parts of the world. it is a very, very difficult thing to do. it is very resource intense and takes a long time, but that's one of the ways of having to deal with it. after the manchester bombing, the independent reviewer of terrorism richard kemp, a man called max hill said we have an abundance of terrorism laws to meet the current threat. is he right? we have an abundance of terrorism laws and we rarely use them. we have got 400 returners and virtually none of them put anywhere form of control order and nor have charges been brought against any of them as far as i'm way ifr. we have —— i am aware. but even the control orders, the methods that exist are not strong enough. we need to look at strengthened legislation to get rid out of this country of people who shouldn't be here. more in a moment. more in a moment, continuing coverage on bbc
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news. we will continue our conversation about some of the things that theresa may said yesterday. you just mentioned terrorism prevention methods. they we re terrorism prevention methods. they were introduced in 2011, they are different from control orders. they are weaker. six or seven people are subject to those. control orders involved electronic tagging and cu rfews. involved electronic tagging and curfews. should involved electronic tagging and cu rfews. should they involved electronic tagging and curfews. should they be brought back? this is a discussion as a society we're going to need to have. the legislation is there. it is about political will and it is about politicians judging the mood about political will and it is about politiciansjudging the mood of about political will and it is about politicians judging the mood of the nation. what we have seen after this flurry of attacks now is that people are becoming frustrated and people wa nt to are becoming frustrated and people want to see concrete steps and actions from the government in a meaningful way that can mitigate the threat and manage it down. all these discussions about the various ways
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in which the state can look at bringing legislative approach to bear against this challenge, it is for us to have this debate about where we are comfortable in heading with regards to that. philip, you area with regards to that. philip, you are a former senior intelligence officer. if you were still working within the intelligence services, what would you be advising theresa may to do right now? well, it's trying to identify what has changed. five attacks have been thwarted. three have successfully got through. 18 attacks since 2013. what brought the pace up? and look at that. what has the pace up? and look at that. what ha s a llowe d the pace up? and look at that. what has allowed these individuals and small groups to get through to carry out successful attacks? how can we look for indicators for the future to stop it lapping? in terms of the monitoring the social media accounts of allegedjihadists, monitoring the social media accounts of alleged jihadists, what's your view about how they are becoming radicalised? we have seen a high
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water mark of social media was in 2013 and 2014, it was easy to recruit people through facebook, twitter and google. the landscape has changed despite what the prime minister said about social media companies. they are not on these platform, they are still there, but not in the way they used to be. it moved towards clandestine methods. telegram is a platform they operate. it is the primary platform which groups like is and al-qaeda are acting today. they are recruiting on these channels highlighting grieve abses and building grievance narratives, ideology and promoting the notion of martyrdom to draw people into their view to carry out these types of attack. thank you very much all of you. thank you for coming on the programme. let's talk about what happened in
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manchester last night because it really was an amazing night. a night of unity. of healing for some and also of joy. of unity. of healing for some and also ofjoy. some of the biggest names in music including coldplay, justin bieber, liam gallagherjoined ariana grande to raise money for the victims of the suicide bombing at the manchester arena just two weeks ago. every person who was at the original ariana grande concert that night was offered a free ticket to the event which has raised millions of pounds. here are some of the highlights. let's not be afraid. # hey! # let me know you # you're all that matters to me... # manchester, we're strong # we're strong # we're still singing our songs
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# our songs... # down the waterfall # wherever it may take me # i know that life won't break me # when i come to call # she won't forsake me... # it might seem crazy what i'm 'bout to say # sunshine's here so she can take a break... # over and over, the only truth # everything comes back to you... manchester, we love you! manchester, london! we are here, and we are together, we are one! # you are, you are,
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you are everything... i want to thank you so much for coming together and being so loving and strong, and unified. i love you guys so much and i think that the kind of love and unity that you're displaying is the medicine that the world really needs right now. so i want to thank you for being just that. what a better way to fight evil with evil, than to fight evil with good, would you guys agree with that? cheering. # all the times that you rained on my parade # and all the clubs you get in using my name... let's just do this little exercise in love, just touch the next person,
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touch the person next to you. make human contact. tell them, "i love you!" look in their eyes, say, "i love you!" crowd: # don't look back in anger, don't look back in anger. # i heard you say cheering. # at least not today... # we're gonna live forever... cheering & applause # oh, i can't hide #. thank you so much, i love you!
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cheering. it was really, really moving. a very, very special event. i'm just doing to bring you this news, it is the latest regarding the number of police officers who were injured on saturday night. one british transport police officer and three met police officers were injured. the further two officers were both on duty southwark officers. one was a plainclothes officer that received stitches to a head injury. a uniformed officer received an injury to his arm. the off—duty officer remains in hospital in a serious condition. good morning. let's bring you up—to—date with the latest on this
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fast—moving investigation. police say they are surging two more addresses in east london, one in newham and another in barking. a total of six properties are being searched. it comes after 12 people we re searched. it comes after 12 people were arrested in barking yesterday following raids at a flat, believed to be the home of one of the attackers. a 55—year—old man has since been released without charge. the commission of the metropolitan police, cressida dick, has said they know the identity of the three attackers and the investigation is moving very quickly. a very high priority for us, obviously, is to try to understand whether they were working with anyone else, whether anybody else was involved in the planning of this attack, and to find out the background to it. we've made a number of arrests over the last 24—36 hours. i think, at the moment, i'm right in saying we still have 12 people in custody. we've carried out searches in a variety of places in east london, and we've seized a huge amount of forensic material. so we're moving very quickly
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and we're working closely with the intelligence agencies in that work. the prime minister is chairing another meeting of the government's emergency committee cobra. earlier, the culture secretary karen bradley said the government would be reviewing its anti—terrorism strategy in view of what she called a unprecedented threat. emily thornberry has criticised the cuts to police numbers. the truth is, and it is a truth, the police are very stretched — you just need to ask them. you know, many of the armed police officers that you'll see on the streets here, come from all over and have had to be brought in, and when they are under a time of stress, we are relying the first victim of the attack to be named is canadian national christine archibald, who was 30. she'd moved to britain
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to be with herfiance. a french citizen was also killed, and four other seriously hurt. four australians are also known to have been caught up in the attack. a total of 48 people were injured — 21 of them remain critically ill. let's go to new scotland yard, where danny shaw is. what is the latest? well, the latest is that the police are trying to piece together the events of saturday night and find out as much as they possibly can about the background of the three perpetrators and their associates. they have amassed an enormous amount of material, both from the van that was used in the attack, friends material from the scene and also from searches at various properties that are still going on. 11 people in custody. they are being questioned on suspicion of terrorism offences. from those interviews,
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police will try to glean as much information about the perpetrators, whether they are linked to people here, whether they have links overseas. cressida dick, the metropolitan police commissioner, said in most of the recent cases they have seen most of the plots in they have seen most of the plots in the uk, the attacks that have taken place, there has been a domestic centre of gravity, as she put it. it is not something that has been directed from overseas. these are still early stages of the investigation. there is still a huge amount of material to go through. we have seen a pattern in these inquiries where you get a large number of arrests early on. then many people are released without charge later as investigators discover that there are no links to the main attackers. it is clear that police are dealing with something they have not had to deal with before, for many, many years. three attacks in less than three months, a sense that each attack is encouraging other people to launch
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further atrocities. that is something that the police are now having to adapt and deal with. cressida dick was making clear that there needs to be changing the way that the police, enforcement and communities respond to this new type of threat. thank you very much. danny shaw, outside new scotland yard. theresa may is due to speak, we are told, at about 9.40 five. we will bring that to you. you may have heard her words on the streets of downing street, when she said enough was enough, as election campaigning resumes in full. how will politicians around london help to unite the capital? let's talk now to neil coyle, who is the labour candidate for bermondsey and old southwark — the attack happened in this constituency. tom brake is the liberal democrat candidate for carshalton & wallington in greater london and is their spokesperson forforeign affairs. rushanara ali is the labour candidate for bethnal green and bow in london.
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dominic raab is the conservative candidate for esher and walton. good morning to all of you. mr raab, three successful terrorist attacks in three months. theresa may said, after six years as home secretary and a yearas after six years as home secretary and a year as prime minister, there has been too much tolerance of extremism. is that an admission of failure on her part? i think it is a different type of terrorism are merging, copycat lone wolf or small groups. our approach is straightforward. we want to see more armed police officers on the streets. we are investing in that. you can see from the response to the horrific attack on london bridge that the time from the report to the armed police dealing with the terrorists was eight minutes. we got some of the very best equipped, resourced and train people dealing with this. also, we need to get that
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poison of the internet. that is easier said than done. we've got to work with internet companies, with international partners. you got to degrade islamic state, which is the inspiration, ratherthan degrade islamic state, which is the inspiration, rather than the controlling organisation for some of these attacks where we can. we have seen these attacks where we can. we have seen that in syria and iraq and i think it is important. it is one piece of thejigsaw, think it is important. it is one piece of the jigsaw, so to speak, that we have a government that is willing to do that. there is no silver bullet. you need to put the pieces together. can i ask why it hasn't been done thus far? well, we have been investing in 1500 extra armed police officers. we have invested in more than that in terms of intelligence officers. the nature of intelligence officers. the nature of the threat has shifted. it has morphed over time. remember from al-anda, the great spectacular attacks, very well planned and organised, much easier to pick up in relation to intelligence. radicalisation online has been going
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on for years? but the nature of it, and the nature of the internet, technological advances have changed. this is something we need to do more of. theresa may has been talking about this for a while. we need to get internet companies working with others, particularly to download extremist material more quickly. we also need to recognise that there is an international approach. i am not giving you a silver bullet or magic wand. at these are the areas that we will address. in theresa may, you have a home secretary who has been relentlessly protecting this country from terrorist attacks for six yea rs. from terrorist attacks for six years. also presided over 20,000 cuts to the police, 20,000 fewer police officers, you acknowledge that? guillemot writing it is an extraordinary thing for labour to throw that at us. —— i think it is an extraordinary thing. we had some of the injuries to an armed police. we have to focus on what is required to deal with this specific threat.
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we put more investment into armed police and we have got... i think what this is really about is that the leader of the labour party has woken up and realised his policy on shoot to kill command disarming the police, is totally unfit for the nature of the threat we face. let's put that to some of the labour candidate that we have here. labour candidates, jeremy corbyn said last night i will take whatever action is necessary and effective to protect the security of our people and country, that includes for authority for the police of the country to use whatever force is necessary, including for authority to use whatever force is necessary. would jeremy corbyn, if he were prime minister, authorise police officer shooting to kill? that is what he said yesterday. you believe he would follow through? that is what the community is to hear. i have been proud to represent the community and lived here for many years. many of the businesses affected are trying to get back to normal and people need to know whoever is in government, the police will have for
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authority, powers and resources to tackle the problems. tom brake, the liberal democrats seem to be suggesting that a report commissioned by david cameron on saudi arabia, potential funding commissioned by david cameron on saudi arabia, potentialfunding of extremism, is being suppressed. what is your evidence for that? we know the report has been drafted and we are just surprised it has not been released. we requested the report be published because we had concerns about saudi arabia funding some of the more extreme mosques in the united kingdom. the saudi arabian government? funding wahhabi islamic mosques. we want an os that is happening, and to what extent it is happening. whether it is fuelling extremism in the united kingdom. we don't know why the government are sitting on it. let's talk about wahab —— wahhabi islam, a strict form which comes from saudi arabia,
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and some say is close to islamic state ideology? that is why the report needs to be published. the government position is that we are working closely with our allies, that the british people are entitled to know if there's in the report that says it is finding its way into england. it is distasteful to talk about the mosques where we know that most radicalisation is done online. the manifesto would undermine the police ability to undertake full investigations and monitor e—mail communications in particular.” investigations and monitor e—mail communications in particular. i am sorry neil has chosen to make this a political ding dong. the fact is, as a party, in our manifesto, we have promised to deliver 10,000 extra police. in government, we also funded a much more security services. and you also saw 20,000 fewer police officers? the fact that
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we are now willing to put the £300 million into funding 10,000 extra police officers is a recognition of that fact. theresa may scrapped control orders when she was home secretary. control orders restricted liberty to protect people from terrorism. tpims replace them. i spoke to experts say they are weaker than control orders. should we consider bringing control orders back? cani can i express my deep condolences to the victims‘ families and to the victims themselves and also appeal to everyone to work together with the police to tackle some of the challenges that we face as a city and also as a country. on security issues, i think we do as the government has said, we do need to look at and review prevent and the strategy. we have called for the
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government successfully for years to review t counter—terrorism strategy what has worked and what has failed and that‘s fallen on deaf ears. what has worked and what has failed and that's fallen on deaf earsm is about hearts and minds, isn‘t it? it is absolutely. it is about that. it's it is absolutely. it is about that. it‘s also as my colleagues have said about making sure that our police and emergency services get the support they need and we have seen not only 20,000 police officers being cut, but also police and community support officers through the eyes and ears of the police and when you do that, it has gone down from 5,000 to 1800 in london, when you do that, you weaken the resilience of our police service. they are at breaking point and theresa may needs to take responsibility. dominic, theresa may needs to take some responsibility? well, we know
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that crime is down by a third, but if you want to deal with terrorism it is misleading and not understand the problem to think that ordinary police officers as trained as they maybe and as dedicated they maybe will be able to deal with the horrific attacks we saw and over the week at london bridge and i worked at london bridge before and i know that area rather well, we had armed office rs that area rather well, we had armed officers showing incredible bravery, but skill because they feared they we re but skill because they feared they were dealing with people carrying explosives. you need to have the armed officers. they need to be trained and you need to be willing to allow them to do the job which will mean as we saw on saturday shooting to kill. in relation to some of the other stuff we've talked about, look, there is always going to bea about, look, there is always going to be a review of terrorism particularly in light of the changes and the fact that we have had three attacks recently and i think we need to hold our nerve and though the
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public that we are united and it would be good if we had a united front on armed officers and we do need to be willing to allow them to shoot terrorist suspects in order to protect the public and indeed in relation to dealing with islamic state in syria and iraq, i'm not talking about wholesale involvement, but when you've got a clear leader, islamic state inspiring the attacks we're seeing in the uk, i do think we're seeing in the uk, i do think we need a leader that's got what it takes and is willing to take the decision that deals with that and it is only theresa may that's showing that she is the one able to take the very difficult decisions. cressida dick commissioner of the metropolitan police said she didn‘t think it was necessary to see police officers routinely armed? we have got to get the balance right between arming police officers and ensuring that we have the kind of policing that we have the kind of policing that we have the kind of policing
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that we had in this country which is unique. we have to protect that and the public trust in the police is exemplary and we need to work with the police and as i say again we have got to look at how to strengthen community policing in our country again. do you agree with cressida dick on that? we need to review whether we have sufficient armed response officers available on patrol, but the principle of british police being armed is the right one. key events there needs to be, the public need to know that there are armed police available if there is an incident, but the local policing isjust as an incident, but the local policing is just as important, an incident, but the local policing isjust as important, if not more so. isjust as important, if not more so. 0k. thank you very much. thank you. pf thank you to tom brake, neil coyle, labour candidate for bermondsey and
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old southwark. and the conservative candidate. we are at borough market in south—east london. this is where on saturday night three men armed with knives decided to run up and down this main area and attack revellers from all over the world who happened to be having a drink, having a meal in the bars and restaurants. that, after, they had taken a white van and driven it at pedestrians on london bridge. it caused carnage on saturday night. chaos, panic. but so many tales of extraordinary heroism actually and bravery from all sorts of people, from waiters and from restau ra nt of people, from waiters and from restaurant owners and from off duty police officers. there are over eight million people living in london. it‘s one of the most diverse
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cities in the world. saturday night here in london bridge the streets would have been bustling with tourists and late night drinkers. this attack was a deliberate attack on londoners way of life, but the mood amongst people living in the city is similar to that we say in manchester just two weeks ago. defiance, and a refusal to let terrorists win. talking to some people who were in borough market on saturday night, their nerves are raw, they are apprehensive and they said it‘s ok not to feel defiant if you don‘t wa nt not to feel defiant if you don‘t want to. let us talk to a group of londoners. dan watson. sarah peoples. local resident amir eden.
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what is the right way to react? you have to continue to use the city. it is our city. we have to continue the way we do. i walk around london every day on my daily ka mute, but we have to be aware that this is happening, but we have to stay vigilant, but we can‘t give in. happening, but we have to stay vigilant, but we can't give in.” would echo the same thing. this is, i live ten minutes away. this is my city, my home, it's where i live, it's where i work, it's where i go out, if we stop doing that, it let's the people who are doing this win, we have to vigilant, but we can't fear, we need to step up and just carry on. it reminds me of that picture of world war ii, the milkman where the bombs have come down and it's a mess around him, but he is carrying on. would it be so bad if
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people wanted to stay at home with their kids and gather in and think i‘m not going it that sporting event. i‘m not going to that gig? i‘m not going it that sporting event. i'm not going to that gig? we need to club together and we need solidarity. the worst thing is to turn on each other. so even if people feel scared, it's ok to feel that fear because we need to stay alert. this is something that's horrifying thing to happen. it's a horrifying thing to happen. it's a horrifying thing to happen. it's a horrifying thing people have to think about, but we really need to make sure that it doesn't change the fa ct make sure that it doesn't change the fact that we live in one of the best cities in the world and we need to stay strong and stay brave. what would you say? as a resident who lives in the borough market area, we area lives in the borough market area, we are a little bit shaken, but on the whole the community is a very diverse and united community and everything we had planned for today, tomorrow and this whole week is going on and will keep going on and we have events planned which we won‘t be cancelling and will be making sure that we happen which show unity and strength in this
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community. we are a very diverse and we are very community. we are a very diverse and we are very unified. i would echo a lot of what everyone said. i think it's very clear that everyone will say, be vigilant, be determined, don't let the terrorists win, but on the other hand, i would say, you know, i'm from the local newspaper. there is nothing wrong with being true to your feelings, fur angry, if you are upset and if you want to stay at home, stay at home. in the weeks that will come out of this, we need to bear in mind exactly how horrific and how much of an effect it will have on people and people need to feel comfortable and to be able to say, "well, you know, i do need help." because your heart goes out to all those people that have lost people that are going to be going through probably one of the most, well, the most tremendous loss that they ever experienced in their
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lives. there are people that are now maimed. there are people that seen such horrific things and will they re cover such horrific things and will they recover from. i would like to see in the weeks to come, us bearing that in mind as well and being able to give that support because when it dies down and everything goes away and you know there is another story like we do in our own paper, i know that, you know, the victims are left behind and that's when it really hits home. sol behind and that's when it really hits home. so i hope that as well as show unity now, that the local community has a sense of compassion and actually being there for the people because an awful amount of people because an awful amount of people have been affected. for everybody who has lost their life, for everybody who is injured, the ripple effect amongst familiar will you and friends, it is just devastating, isn‘t it? you and friends, it is just devastating, isn't it? it really is. and it ripples out across the whole
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city and we have to be incredibly grateful for everything the emergency services did or the local people who, many of whom ran into dangerjust to try and do anything that they could do to protect others, but yes, it leaves a terrible, terrible wake behind of people who have lost people, to people who have lost people, to people who have life changing injuries. i was at tower bridge before the incident happened and i left after breaking my fast and i was feeling sleep yu and half—way going down tooly street i changed my mind, it was a miracle and i changed my mind andi was a miracle and i changed my mind and i can‘t really imagine what the people that were there at the time of the ins didn‘t what they were going through and the families. i really can‘t imagine, but know, my mum and my family, they were calling me constantly, they wanted to know what was happening to me. my heart goes out to the people who have been
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affected by this. sarah, you said, "we‘ve got to be defiant or they win." what does defiance means in terms of how does that manifest itself, what do you mean in practical terms? i think it's really important as much as possible just to carry on living lives in the same way and not to change the way that we are a democratic country, we care about each other, we are a compassionate country, what i would hate to see happen is for us to turn on the muslim community and i don't wa nt on the muslim community and i don't want to see a spike in hate crimes because of this. i want to see people clubbing together, staying, you know, true to the values that make britain really great. i would agree. it's carrying on with our day—to—day lives, being aware, not profiling and stereotyping each other because i feel like if we profile or stereotyped each other for what one race or religion has done to another, the world would be
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a mess. we have to carry on and i think love is a big thing within this and unity will make us sure that we are united as a nation. kevin, briefly, this area would be much, much busier on a monday morning right now, wouldn‘t it? much, much busier on a monday morning right now, wouldn't it? yes. imean, in morning right now, wouldn't it? yes. i mean, in recent years this area has become so busy. saturday night is one of the most busiest nights and yesterday, it felt very much like it was 20 years ago when there wa nt like it was 20 years ago when there want this huge buzz around borough market. it would be busy. this is a local area for me and for the pay, but it is a landmark in london. thank you all very much, thank you. it‘s get the latest weather update with carol. for scotland and northern ireland,
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we have got a day of sunshine and showers. this rain continues to sweep down in the direction of the south—east. the far south—east hanging on to brighter conditions for longest. however, we will see that rain cross accompanied by gusting winds as we go through the course of tonight. gales across the bristol channel and south—western approaches and the rain still ensconced across northern england moving in across scotland, but it‘s not going to be a cold night. tomorrow morning we start off with that rain. again, in the same areas. we will have rain down the east coast of england, but for the rest, wales and northern ireland, it is a day of sunshine and showers. some of the showers will be heavy and thundery, but they will be blown along on that strong wind. and then for wednesday, we see the last of the rain pushing off into the north sea. a lot of dry weather behind it. still mild. the next system coming into the west accompanied by gusty winds with a high of 20 celsius. hello, it‘s monday, it‘s 10 o‘clock, i‘m victoria derbyshire.
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in a fast—moving investigation into saturday‘s terror attack on london bridge, police are searching addresses in east london and say they‘ve seized a huge quantity of forensic material. there have been a number of arrests and police know the identities of those who carried out the attacks. a very high priority for us, obviously, is to try to understand whether they were working with anyone else, whether anybody else was involved in the planning of this attack, and to find out the background to it. the government‘s emergency committee, cobra, has been meeting to discuss the latest on the investigation. senior politicians: big internet companies to do more to police cyberspace or face the threat of multi—million pound fines. bottles, glasses, a table, he tried to throw a bike at them because he saw these cowardly people
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stabbing this young woman and he wanted to do his bit. he put our lives before his. i can‘t believe he did it and we‘re so thankful to him. people who were here on saturday have told us about the horror of what they saw. they also spoke of the incredible bravery by some to save the lives of others. bottles, glasses, a table, he tried to throw a bike at them because he saw these cowardly people stabbing this young woman and he wanted to do his bit. he put our lives before his. i can‘t believe he did it and we‘re so thankful to him. the first victim has been named. she was christine archibald from canada and she was 30 years old. her family said she would have had no understanding of the callous cruelty that caused her death. it was an evening of tears and defiance — some of the worlds leading artists joined forces with ariana grade to raise money for the 22 people killed in a suicide bombing at that concert in manchester last month.
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i love you guys so much and i think that the kind of love and unity that you‘re displaying is the medicine that the world really needs right now. so i want to thank you for being just that. good morning. this is borough market, this is where, on saturday night, three men with knives decided to attack revellers as they sat in bars and restaurants. it was a hot evening, late saturday night, about 10.10. the people did not know that these three men had already taken a
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white van to pedestrians on london bridge. we spoke to eyewitnesses. you will have seen many over the last few hours, describing the horror, the devastation, the chaos, panic and screaming, but also remarkable tales of bravery from all sorts of people, from waiters, restau ra nt sorts of people, from waiters, restaurant owners, of judy sorts of people, from waiters, restaurant owners, ofjudy rugby playing police officers, from a british transport police officer armed only with a bat on who, it is reported, tar, those three men —— was taking on those three men as they walked around the market with knives. the main theme, which is becoming familiar, is you just have to get on with your life, despite what has happened. of course, everybody‘s thoughts are with those that lost their lives and those relatives trying to work out why on earth this has happened to their families. we will bring you up—to—date with the latest this morning. this a brief glimpse of the three knifemen as they headed through borough market.
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so—called islamic state has now claimed responsibility. the police investigation continues apace. in east ham, a man scrambled across buildings before apparently being detained. in barking, in east london, 12 people were arrested — seven of them women — as the police searched properties thought to be linked to the attackers. the metropolitan police commissioner says they need to know if the attackers were part of a wider network, and she says policing methods will have to be adjusted. we in this country have faced a terrorist threat again. throughout my life, actually, that threat changes, it morphs and we will change and adapt to what appears to be a kind of new reality for us. the list of those killed and injured reflects the cosmopolitan character of london. 30—year—old christine archibald was from canada. she‘d moved to london to be with herfiance. her family said she would not have understood the callous cruelty that caused her death.
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the french foreign minister said a french national had died and another was missing. 21 people are still in a critical condition. four police officers were injured. a british transport policeman and an off—duty officer remain in hospital. police know the identities of the three attackers. they say they won‘t release their names until, in their words, it‘s "operationally possible". that may be later today. that police commissioner, cressida dick, has praised the extraordinarily brave actions by on and off duty officers first on the scene, and who run towards the danger. there have been such incredible tales of bravery by normal people as well, who are not trained to do this. the cab driver who tried to drive directly into the attackers. pub goers who are
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throwing pint glasses at them and passers—by attending the wounded. yeah, so i saw everything, probably. it was a white transit van, with a male driver. there‘s several casualties, there‘s people missing, pedestrians who were behind me, police can‘t find them, and, yeah, it‘s obviously shocking, horrible. there was a bar full of people there, just having a good time, and they went running straight into them, and then people, you could hear them screaming, they were getting stabbed. when they first see him, they went, "this is for allah," and they run up, they stabbed this girl, i don't know how many times, ten times, maybe 15 times, and she was going, "help me, help me," and i could not do nothing. got to the end, we held our hands up so they knew that we weren‘t part of anything, then they ushered us
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through and we managed to get to our street and just run home. so you managed to get back into your house? yeah, about 20 minutes later. how did you feel? absolutely petrified, yeah. i was scared because when you see police running, they were running for a reason, they looked pretty scared. they were being really honest with us, the police presence was amazing, but it was very, very scary. sirens. gunshots. this one guy walked out in the road, managed to grab the attention of one of the police cars and basically force them down that road saying, "look, you have to go down stoney street, you have to go down there, he‘s down there," and so this one police 4x4 screeched down stoney street and then easily within five seconds there were six gunshots, or what to us sounded like six clear gunshots. gunshots. and then we panicked.
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you didn't hear any shouting from the police, you just heard the car... well, we saw the car go down the road, and it wasjust out of our view that you heard the screech and then six gunshots straightaway. bang—bang—bang, bang—bang—bang? that‘s what i remember, exactly that, very quickly, one after another. and i saw two officers, a woman and a man officer, and i told them, "i know where they are," so we run back. as we got there we heard the stun... well, it was guns, i thought it was stun grenades going off, and they were lying on the floor, dead. i'm just so angry about it, but the way i see it, it's going to carry on, isn't it? it's never going to stop. they need to fight these people and put a stop to them, before more people die. we can talk now to some of those who captured the events on their phone. liam connell was enjoying a friend‘s birthday drinks when armed police stormed their bar forcing them all under the tables for their protection and florin morariu is a romanina
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baker who helped shelter 20 people and fought the attackers with a crate — hejoins us now with a translator. richard was in the southwark tavern just before the attack began. he was visiting london and is back in taunton. we can talk to all of them. you are famous on social media because of what you are throwing at the attackers. tell us what you did? translation: i started working at 7.40. at10.20 in translation: i started working at 7.40. at 10.20 in the evening...
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there is a very big window at the bakery, four and a half metres. in front of it... i saw complete chaos in front of the bakery, through that window. so, itold my colleague, we should go out and see what is happening. when we went out, we saw two brazilian women. there were crying and they were scared. they asked us for shelter. we took them inside and we gave them a glass of water so they could recover a little. then we asked what
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all the fuss was about outside. so, we were told that from london bridge, all the way to borough market, there is a van, the people get off the van and kill people in the street. we asked where these quys the street. we asked where these guys were. they said they could be anywhere. they said they could be anywhere. they didn‘t know. we went outside, with myself, two crates, to defend myself. you went out with two grits? yes. -- two crates. to the right of the bakery, there is an exit from the borough
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market. there were a lot of very scared people coming out of this exit. i went over there. i walked six metres. i saw nobody. on an alley, to my left, borough market, there were four people. there was a very relaxed man, just walking out of borough market. was that one of the attackers? no. when did you see them? i am looking at one, one normal man. in the back,
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two people. one is further back. these two guys are coming. they have the knives. these guys were down. you saw the attackers plunging the knives into revellers? yes. together, the two guys. what made me look, it was scary. sir translation: i also felt pity for the victims. i didn‘t know how to handle things. i thought, i‘m also in danger. ijust threw my crate up them.
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i threw the first one and i knew he was going to dodge it. whilst he was dodging it, iwas was going to dodge it. whilst he was dodging it, i was walking towards him and! dodging it, i was walking towards him and i hit him in the head with the second crate but i had in my hand. so, the moment i hit him in the head with a crate, behind him was a police car coming towards us. they we re police car coming towards us. they were shouting that i should just run away, because they were going to throw a grenade. this is absolutely extraordinary. you went to the attackers with knives, who had already plunged the knife into somebody, you went towards them? translation: yes, iwent
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translation: yes, i went towards them because i felt pity for the person that was lying on the ground. i wanted to save both of us. it could have been possible there we re it could have been possible there were a few other terrorists in the market. nobody knew how many there we re market. nobody knew how many there were out there. well, what you did was remarkable. thanks. no, thank you. translation: the police threw the
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grenade and it blew off and i runaway. thank you so much. stay here. stay here. liam, hello. hi. what do you think of that first of all? it's crazy. that's incredible. that's real stuff. it's normal. it's normal. maybe it‘s your mother, your father, it‘s my mother, it‘s my father. it‘s normal. no help. cho half chance. maybe check have one chance. it‘s simple, yes. have one chance. it‘s simple, yes. have one chance. i‘m sorry for these guys that died. it‘s possible, help. it‘s possible, help. liam, where were you? so i was at a belgium beer
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place. and we were a couple of doors down from the wheat she have. we didn't know what was going on. we started to get evacuate and then armed police came in and we just had to drop to the ground. that carried on for a bit. i was filming as it we nt on for a bit. i was filming as it went on and then we were told... we‘re showing our audience your footage now? ijust filmed from we‘re showing our audience your footage now? i just filmed from the get go and then one of my friends said someone from outside is behind you. so me and my friend went over to him and at first i didn't really know what he around his neck, but thenit know what he around his neck, but then it turned out that he had been stabbed in the neck. so my friend sat down with him and we were calming him down whilst we held the bandage against his neck and the police were making sure he was ok and got him out to paramedics quickly. were you calm? how would you describe how you were? quickly. were you calm? how would you describe how you were ?m quickly. were you calm? how would you describe how you were? it was definitely scary, but at first i didn't think it was a terrorist
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attack. i thought it was a solo incident and i just attack. i thought it was a solo incident and ijust thought people we re incident and ijust thought people were getting worried. i think because i was filming it, it was a good distraction. ijust wanted to film it and get it out there rather than sit down and worry. texting family and stuff, is scary. let me bring in richard. richard hello. i hope you can hear me ok. tell us how it was from your point of view? we we re it was from your point of view? we were in the southwark tavern having a quick drink before an event at the shard which was going to start at 10.30pm. we got in there about 9.30pm and! 10.30pm. we got in there about 9.30pm and i just 10.30pm. we got in there about 9.30pm and ijust bought a round of drinks and settled down. noticed that there was a little bit of trouble out on the street. there seemed to be a couple of saturday night guys having a disagreement and the bouncer had to get involved and we thought nothing of it. it was just the sort of thing that goes off. carried on with the drink.
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ordered a little bit of food and then we decided at about ten o'clock that we should perhaps make our way. we we re that we should perhaps make our way. we were going to walk up stoney street and london bridge station to the shard. there was a couple of girls crying and we naturally thought it was a continuation of what had gone on previously. so we thought right, let's get out. fortunately for us, the girls in the group decided that they needed to nip to the loo quickly. and it kind of delayed our leaving two or three minutes. we probably left the pub at about 10.05pm, 10.06pm not realising that the two girls had been involved in some sort of the knife attack, whether they had seen stuff that we hadn't, piecing it together afterwards that's what happened. and we walked out into the street and
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yeah, it was like walking out into a film set. it was people running around in terror. we saw a couple of people who were injured, one particularly badly. he was covered in blood. walking down towards us. being helped. and really our story is one of no heroism or bravery, we really looked to get out of there as quickly as we could along with everybody else. headed up towards the station. my friends were well ahead of us and my wife was ahead of me and! ahead of us and my wife was ahead of me and i stopped to ask somebody in the station what was happening who told me that there were men out there who were running around randomly knifing and slashing people which kind of meant that 0k, randomly knifing and slashing people which kind of meant that ok, i'm piecing this together now and at that moment we heard the gunshots crack out very loudly, five or six
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in rapid succession. and at that point that create add whole new wave of panic i think amongst everybody. my wife was... sorry for interrupting. may i ask you, does it make you think differently at all about coming to the capital or not at all? no, not at all. i think, about coming to the capital or not at all? no, not at all. ithink, my respect goes out to all the people in london and any other major city who has to live with this kind of fear now day—to—day. we live down in cornwall. i happen to be in taunton today just for cornwall. i happen to be in taunton todayjust for work, cornwall. i happen to be in taunton today just for work, but cornwall. i happen to be in taunton todayjust for work, but it's a different world. it's, day—to—day fear of this sort of thing happening is there for all these people that we just don't experience. having experienced it on saturday night you understand the phrase, "terror attack. " that's what understand the phrase, "terror attack." that's what it enduces, it is terror and panic and confusion
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and bewilderment all at once and it is really douf process.” and bewilderment all at once and it is really douf process. i have some m essa g es is really douf process. i have some messages here from people watching around the country. corina, these are messages from our viewers, they are messages from our viewers, they are directed at florin. john says, "this romanian hero is so brave and so modest." thank you. and another man says the romanian man on at bbc news is a hero. i have total respect, thank you. i have respect for other people. you
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have respect for other people? yeah. they are similar. chris says, "the romanian man who saved people‘s lives is a hero. he calls it normal that he risked his life for others. dese serves so much." professor says, "this romain began guy is so brave. people complain about immigrants. give him citizenship now." another viewer says, "that romanian chap is amazing. i‘m really impressed by these londoners of all nationalities." translation: i didn't want to do this to get any benefit or to be on the telly. i did it because i felt this way. i think it‘s just human. thank you. thank you so much. thank
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you corina. very nice to meet you. thank you. thank you to to richard in taunton. 48 people were taken to hospital after the attack on saturday. 21 of them are clit injured. simonjones saturday. 21 of them are clit injured. simon jones is saturday. 21 of them are clit injured. simonjones is at king‘s couege injured. simonjones is at king‘s college hospital where some of them are being treated. what‘s the latest from there, simon? well, the hospital has told me this morning that here they are still treating eight men and six women. they weren‘t able to give me any details on their condition, but what we do know is 21 people as you say remain ina know is 21 people as you say remain in a critical condition across five hospitals here in the capital. we‘ve also had further details of injuries to police officers. there was an officer from the british transport police who was injured in the attack. an off duty met police officer and we‘ve learnt two further police officers were injured. one was in uniform and another was a
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plain clothed officer and another one suffered an injury to his head and had to have stitches and another and had to have stitches and another an injury to their arm. there has been a huge amount of praise from nhs bosses and members of the public about the emergency teams who headed into that dangerous situation. we know that the ambulance service arrived on the scene within six minutes of getting the call and ran into danger when many would have had the inclination to do the opposite thing. we‘ve heard this morning from one consultant at a nearby hospital who really sums up the situation. he said hejust finished who really sums up the situation. he said he just finished his shift. who really sums up the situation. he said hejust finished his shift. he was heading home on his bike when he saw a huge number of police officers and the emergency services and ambulances around the london bridge area. so he simply turned his bike around and went back into hospital. he said there, by the time the first patients arrived, the full resus tea m patients arrived, the full resus team was in place with people on call coming in and other staff members volunteering to come in when they heard about what had happened.
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he said the injuries that some had sustained were truly awful to the extent that it was clear that the attackers had stabbed them with the intention of killing them, but those who survived, some, the injuries we re who survived, some, the injuries were so bad that they were unable to speak, they were in such a state of shock about what happened. he said initially around eight people in that hospital went to the operating theatre straightaway and another eight went the following morning and it has been a difficult time too for the staff who have stepped up. the nhs says they will be given support because there has been training for scenarios like this and a number of training exercises have taken place recently in london so staff were prepared, the imagine plan came into place, but i don‘t think anything truly prepares them for having to deal with the injuries they saw and deal with the injuries they saw and deal with the injuries they saw and deal with this situation in reality. so, a lot of praise for the emergency staff and we are expecting an update from the hospital here which is still treating 14 patients at 11.30am this morning. thank you
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very much, simon jones at 11.30am this morning. thank you very much, simonjones reporting from king‘s college hospital. as florin our romanian baker was leaving, people were going up to him and shaking his hand. they were wanting to say thank you to him. it was really, really moving and special. saturday‘s terror attack led to those questions how do you tackle extremism? led to those questions how do you tackle extremism ? how led to those questions how do you tackle extremism? how do you make sure men don‘t become radicalised? how best to tackle extremism. we can now speak to nazir afzal, former association of police and crime commissioners chief executive. zubeda limbada, director of counter—extremism group connect futures. shabnam nasimi, former prevent officer who worked with people vulnerable to radicalisation. we are expecting to hear from
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theresa may any minute now. you will have heard her say yesterday we have got to have embarrassing and difficult conversations to counter the evil ideology of the people who attacked borough market, london bridge on saturday night. what do you think she means? well, don noma she means. there is a strong case for saying the conversation are happening and they are happening alover the country. they need to be reinforced. people have become complacent. it‘s always the case that these individuals that carried out these attacks in manchester where i live or london where i work, don‘t represent islam. in fact they represent islam in the same way that kkk with their burning crosses represent christianity. what are the conversations? give me an example of an embarrassing and difficult conversation? you shouldn't be
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listening to individuals who don‘t wa nt to listening to individuals who don‘t want to engage with your communities. islamists have been telling people not to vote because they think democracy is against their religion. those people need to be told to get out of the mosques, get out of the places of worship and get out of the places of worship and get out of the places of worship and get out of the communities and be told that they have no place in terms of the britain that we love and we want to be part of. whose job is it whosejob is it to whose job is it to say get out of the mosque? the people within the mosque, and i are doing it. i know they have been doing it in manchester, i don‘t know about london. the reality is that these are things the community themselves have to take ownership of. and they have to take ownership of. and they have done. but they can‘tjust rely upon the leaders. too often, the authorities engage with so—called community leaders. the white community leaders. the white community don‘t have leaders. these people don‘t represent the young muslims. most muslims are under 25,
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female. yet somehow, their voices are heard, but young people, their voices aren‘t heard. i think we need to work differently. we need to work with women‘s groups, with young people. ultimately, that is how we tackle this issue going forward. we have got to somehow isolate, marginalise those people that think that simply by going to a meeting they have done their bit. we have heard what he was saying, it is a huge problem, multifaceted, but where do we begin? you need to build trust and confidence, something that is practical. theresa may said we would have to have difficult and embarrassing conversations. i welcome that. however, prevent, the counterterrorism strategy, has been going since 2007. the thing is whether conversations aren't happening, yes, it is as simple as
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that, the government needs to engage with wider communities, it needs to build trust and confidence. sometimes, the perception with the community is that the prevent strategy about spying on the muslim community. talking to people and building trust will be essential.m is one unnamed friend of one of the attackers, claiming to have called the anti—terrorism hotline about one of the individuals that carried out the attack on saturday night. somebody who was friends with the manchester bomb claimed to have called the anti—terrorism hotline or certainly called authorities to report the fact that there was something wrong and he was justifying all kinds ofjihadi attacks. so there is some trust there, but that information doesn‘t appear to be being acted on? that is right. the issue we are having is that we are not engaging as much with the community. their voices need to be heard. we need to ensure
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the right supporters and —— support is provided at the right time. through grass work local community work, ensuring that communities are at the heart of prevent, they address the vulnerabilities and the issues within that relevant community. when you say vulnerabilities, you‘re talking about people who are vulnerable to extremism and radicalisation? yes. in practical terms, somebody like yourself goes into an airy and does what? the vulnerabilities are firstly a lack of identity, understanding where they come from. how do you reach them? they will not come to you, they are online, being radicalised? recently i was in a secondary school and i was talking about extremism and how it happens. three young schoolchildren came up to me after the session and said it was really important, it was really
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insightful. but their parents had said to them that, actually, don‘t talk about prevent, don‘t talk about extremism at school because you could be arrested. there is a sense of fear could be arrested. there is a sense offear in could be arrested. there is a sense of fear in terms of what it means to be engaged. when we go into school, we talk about safe spaces. teachers are not always sure, because of confidence issues, about talking about radicalisation. it might be basics, how does extremism happen? we talk about how extremism happens face to face and online. where people are, in terms of knowing where the recruitment methods are and what they can do, it seems to be something that needs to be better understood. the government needs to engage beyond a minority of the community, particularly with young people and women. pick up on that point, if you community engagement with young people is key. when
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another core of the family, they are the ones we need to work with to ensure awareness around radicalisation, the threat that their children face is identified. thank you very much for your time. i really appreciate it. thank you to you both. we are broadcasting from borough market, the scene of the third successful terror attack in this country in three months. there have been more raids by police. two more properties in east london are being search this morning. witnesses heard bangs and what they said sounded like shots. more people have been detained in an investigation that is described by the metropolitan police commissioner cressida dick ours quickly move on. —— as quickly
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moving. a very high priority for us, obviously, is to try to understand whether they were working with anyone else, whether anybody else was involved in the planning of this attack, and to find out the background to it. in downing street theresa may has been chairing another meeting of the government‘s cobra emergency committee. she‘s spoken in the last few minutes. she will be speaking in the next few minutes, i should say. i do apologise. as soon as she does, we will bring that to you. the first victim of the attack to be named is canadian national christine archibald, who was 30. she‘d was visiting britain with her fiance. a french citizen was also killed, and four other seriously hurt. four australians are also known to have been caught up in the attack. a total of 48 people were injured — 21 of them remain critically ill. last night in manchester, that
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concert that ariana grande had arranged, there was love, joy and sadness, as she and other stars performed onstage almost two weeks after the suicide bomber killed 22 people at her concert in the city. around 50,000 people attended the one love manchester benefit gig last night to raise money for the victims of the attack. 11 million people in the uk watch the concert last night, which has so far raised £2 million for victims of the attack, all organised by ariana grande. # hey!
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# let me know you # you're all that matters to me # you‘re all that matters to me... # manchester, we're strong # we're strong # we're still singing our songs # our songs... # down the waterfall # wherever it may take me # i know that life won't break me # when i come to call # she won't forsake me... # it might seem crazy what i'm 'bout to say # sunshine's here so she can take a break... # over and over, the only truth # everything comes back to you... manchester, we love you! manchester, london!
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we are here, and we are together, we are one! # you are, you are, you are everything... i want to thank you so much for coming together and being so loving and strong, and unified. i love you guys so much and i think that the kind of love and unity that you‘re displaying is the medicine that the world really needs right now. so i want to thank you for being just that. what a better way to fight evil with evil, than to fight evil with good, would you guys agree with that? cheering. # all the times that you rained on my parade # and all the clubs you get
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in using my name... let's just do this little exercise in love, just touch the next person, touch the person next to you. tell them, "i love you!" look in their eyes, say, "i love you!" crowd: # don't look back in anger, don‘t look back in anger. # i heard you say cheering. # at least not today... # we're gonna live forever... # oh, i can‘t hide #.
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thank you so much, i love you! cheering. lets talk to nicole smith, who was at the concert two weeks ago and that the benefit gig last night. hello, how are you? i'm fine, thank you. thank you very much for talking to us. what was it like for you last night? it was definitely very emotional. it was nice to be there, great to be in that kind of environment again. yes, it was really emotional to be experiencing that kind of thing again. thinking
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back to those that were injured and everything. tell us how the last couple of weeks have been. it's been really, really ha rd. couple of weeks have been. it's been really, really hard. ifound it quite hard to leave the house and things like that. i have managed to, but it has been quite hard and i have been very jumpy. but it has been quite hard and i have been veryjumpy. a lot of things play on your mind, things like that. obviously you found it ha rd to like that. obviously you found it hard to go out, but i wonder, in terms of artsnight, did that —— in terms of artsnight, did that —— in terms of artsnight, did that —— in terms of last night, did not help you in any way? eu definitely. i definitely feel a bit more confident now. i feel more comfortable going to certain places again. thank you very much for talking to us. that's 0k. very much for talking to us. that's ok. nicole smith, who was at the
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benefit concert last night and he was at the concert in manchester two weeks ago. theresa may‘s plans to regulate the internet to combat extremism have been described as intellectually lazy. she accused big internet companies of giving terrorist ideology the safe space it needs to breed online. lets talk now to sajda mughal, a 7/7 survivor who now works to educate women on spotting extremism in their children, abdel bari atwan and emily taylor, editor of the journal of cyber policy who says the role of social media in countering radicalisation is a grey area. first, your reaction to theresa may, saying we have to start policing this space online? i would say that speech yesterday caused a lot of
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consternation amongst many of my colleagues. however,... consternation amongst many of my colleagues. however, . .. why? consternation amongst many of my colleagues. however,... why? it seems like a knee jerk reaction. theresa may‘s own record with regard to the internet, when we look at very severe surveillance laws, which she put forward, the investigatory powers act, we have some of the most strict laws in the western world. she has a tendency towards authoritarianism online. i think thatis authoritarianism online. i think that is why it has caused alarm. however, the social media platforms themselves do an awful lot of curating and themselves do an awful lot of cu rating and they themselves do an awful lot of curating and they do an awful lot of editing of what we see online. if it is done well, having some public interest in that mix, currently it is completely secretive and com pletely is completely secretive and completely private, done by california companies. i don‘t think thatis california companies. i don‘t think that is a satisfactory situation either. how do you come at this
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committee in what the prime minister says and, frankly, what politicians have been saying for a while, we have been saying for a while, we have to do something about the internet, which seems almost impossible. facebook are saying they are going to try to make the platform more hostile. how do you approach this? there has been a lot of talk over the years. i am a 7/7 survivor, that is what changed my life and meant i started tackling radicalisation. the action is there. what i want to see happen is for the action to continue. it is heartening to hear the prime minister saying online, families and the home, the work is being done thereby us, through our programme. but i've got to be honest with you, there is a lot of red tape. i want to overcome that red tape. give me an example? a lot of talking. a lot of talking and
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back and forth. the example is that we have a project which is tried and tested, it has delivered, we have had to take a step back. that shouldn't be the case. why is that? because of the red tape.” shouldn't be the case. why is that? because of the red tape. i don't understand. the toing and froing. it means we are not delivering. then people are potentially being radicalised online. evenif even if you have got mums intervening, you have got muslim mums, what ages are we talking about? 11 plus. and they stopped them because they realised what their kids were doing. it is getting involved in their lives. having that deep involvement actually that pa re ntal deep involvement actually that parental control so to speak. which is the key here and that's why our work is centred around mothers because they are the key change makers. they are the first ones to spot the signs. then i'm going to say to you, look, we can get mums
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and dads policing what their kids are doing on the internet. then you‘ve got messaging apps like telegram, only the sender and receiver can see what‘s messaged which is what we‘re told thejihadis are using now? yes. i think tojust develop your point i think we are thinking about the online spaces different from off line and i think that‘s one of the reasons why theresa may has been criticised yesterday because at the same time there is increasing surveillance and doing things online, there have been 20,000 police officers cut in the last five years. you need people in communities. the deal with encryption so messaging apps that are encrypted end to end, that‘s viewed by some in the security services as a threat. however, the security services all of us rely on encryption to make transactions and to buy things online. end to end
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does not mean it‘s a black box. if you have the device and if the security services are able to get into the device they are at one of the ends and they can read the messages. so, the security services have an awful lot more information about us than has ever been available. we can hear from the prime minister. the police have now identified all three of the attackers and when progress in the investigation permits, the metropolitan police will release the names. 11 individuals are now being held in police custody following the search of two premises. the independent joint terrorism analysis centre have confirmed that the national threat level remains at severe. that means that a terrorist attack is highly likely. the police have reported that they have put additional security measures in place to employeetected the public and provide reassurance and this includes additional security measures at a number of bridges in london. the police are working hard
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to establish the identity of all of those who were tragically killed or injured in event on saturday night, but it is now clear that sadly victims came from a number of nationalities. this was an attack on london and the united kingdom, but it was also an attack on the free world. and finally, i would just like to pay tribute once again to the magnificent response of the police and the emergency services. the heroism of officers both on and off duty was extraordinary. the police and the nhs had detailed plans in place to deal with the horror that unfolded on saturday night. this undoubtedly saved many lives and we thank them. this morning the nation‘s most senior police officer has been saying it would be appropriate to look not just at the resourcing saying it would be appropriate to look notjust at the resourcing for counter—terrorism policing, but for general non specialist officers as well. do you gret presiding over cuts that has seen 20,000 fewer
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police officers on the streets of great britain? well, the commissioner of the metropolitan police has said that the met is well resourced and they are and that they have powerful counter—terrorism capabilities and they do. we have protected counter—terrorism policing budgets and provided funding for an increase in the number of armed police officers. since 2015, we have protected overall police budgets despite the fact thatjeremy corbyn‘s labour party in the house of commons suggested that police budgets could be cut. but it is also about the powers that we give to the police. we‘ve given increased powers to the police to be able to deal with terrorists, powers whichjeremy corbyn has boasted he has always opposed. thank you. theresa may. let‘s talk to norman smith who is at downing street. so, the threat level remains at severe, norman. yes, that‘s significant because if it was thought that these three individuals might have been part of some wider gang, that there was some on going threat then the chances are the
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threat then the chances are the threat level would have been raised to critical as it was after the manchester bombing. so it remains at severe which suggests the police have got a grip on this particular terrorist attack. the other thing i thought interesting, the prime minister suggesting additional security on bridges. now, we know that‘s been a vulnerability obviously in the wake of the westminster bridge and the london bridge attack. significantly the bridges don‘t have bollards going along them to protect pedestrians on the pavement. now, isuspect along them to protect pedestrians on the pavement. now, i suspect that maybe one of the things that they‘re going to look at. the other thing interesting though the prime minister again on the defensive over the cuts to police numbers which have been reduced we know since 2010 by around 20,000 and this is where the politics of it get hard for mrs may because although yesterday she made her enough is enough speech suggesting a whole range of areas she wanted to look at, she herself has a track record when it comes to counter trim and her critics will
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say not just that counter trim and her critics will say notjust that have there have been cuts to police numbers, but she dismantled control orders and replaced them with a lesser restriction in terms of other orders. herfirst act restriction in terms of other orders. her first act was to rescind the move to rescind id cards. she has a track record which critics will point to. what will be interesting in the next 10 or 15 minutes when we hear from mrs may, she is making a speech. whether she is fleshes out in anymore details some of the ideas she mooted yesterday. we know some of the things the government are looking at in terms of trying to get the big internet to companies to and then trying to ensure civic society is less tolerant of extremism and when you talk to supporters of mrs may
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this point to things like the trojan horse scandal in the birmingham schools and the child sex grooming scandals in yorkshire, and similarly pointing to the voter scandal in tower hamlets. again and again they say instances where the local authorities, social services, the police have been inhibited from intervening. it is claimed because of fear of being accused of being racist or islamophobic. thank you very much, norman. norman smith our assistant political editor at downing street. so the threat level remains at severe in the uk. theresa may deflecting criticism about cuts to police numbers. talking about additional security on bridges and paying tribute once again to the magnificent emergency services in the way they responded on saturday night. the police and the nhs, armed police, resolving this situation within eight minutes of receiving
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that first call. quite remarkable. the archbishop of canterburyjustin welby has urged people not to direct their anger towards muslim people. we can talk now to imam farhad ahmad, from an ahmadi mosque in london. venerable rosemary lain—priestley, who is archdeacon of westminster and the city churches. and rabbi of north western reform synagogue, mark goldsmith. welcome all of you. this is a time when religious leaders will come together to urge others to unite. is that fair? absolutely. i think it's the responsibility for people, particularly faith leaders to urge people that this is a time to unite. me as people that this is a time to unite. measa people that this is a time to unite. me as a muslim imam. it‘s my responsibility i feel to let the people know because if people are doing something strong in the name of my religion, it‘s my responsibility to let the people know that the skip ture of islam, the teaching of islam do not support these actions at all, the koran says that if you kill one person, it‘s like killing the whole of humanity
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and it says there is no compulsion in religion. the koran says that you should unite on things that are common. there is so much that unites us than divides us. what would you say? we work together. we live alongside one another as people of faith every day of our lives in london and that is one of the fabulous things about living in this city. when the news was coming through about the attack on saturday evening, there was a group of muslims and jewish people and christians who were meeting together to celebrate the breaking of the muslim fast that day in st james church in piccadilly, together already as people of being neighbours of different faiths and we will continue to do that and to stand together against atrocities and acts of barbarism which is what it is. this is community by community. so, our synagogues hosted for seven years... what is that?
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that's the fast breaking meal at the end of each day in ramadan. we invite our muslim neighbours into the synagogue and it creates a community that knows a community so that when something like this awful happens, we know each other and we know that each other is feeling the pain because we all suffer from these kind of awful things happening. we have got to know and understand that just like jews have been hurt, the same thing can happen to muslims by being bracketed together and we have to get to know each other as individuals and as people as communities and then we can make a change. there are people who are feeling angry and hurting and are in great pain. i wonder what you would say to them today?” and are in great pain. i wonder what you would say to them today? i would just say reach out to muslims. i‘m a muslim imam. we were here the whole day yesterday. i'm going to pause
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for one moment because this is bbc news and there will be continuing coverage now on bbc news of reaction to what happened in london on saturday evening. do continue. you asked what can we do? what can we say to people who might be worried? they‘re worried and we understand that. that‘s why we are opening ourselves up. we are muslims and we wish to tell people about our faith. people muslims and we wish to tell people about ourfaith. people may muslims and we wish to tell people about our faith. people may think there is something in the religion, if you have any concerns like that, come and speak to us. we have been here since yesterday. people were coming up to us and answering questions, in london, we have seen that people are open—minded and we have been through a lot. we have been through hard times and we a lwa ys been through hard times and we always come together. the call from the archbishop of canterbury, how do you think that‘s heeded? the archbishop of canterbury, how do
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you think that's heeded? to stand for the fact that this was not something which was done in the name of true islamic faith, but by deluded individuals using, misusing religion in the same way that people of all different faiths have done in the past in different circumstances and standing out against that and yes, being angry, that that happens, but angry on behalf of one another, those of us who stand for a god who would not countenance and does not countenance such acts. the whole of london is bereaved by what has happened and actually i would say the whole of anybody who shares the values that we build communities together with all kinds of different and diverse people. so, anger is a natural part of being bereaved. being angry is fine. but be angry with the people who perpetrated this. do not be angry with your fellow communities around you. do
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you agree? absolutely agree. i think it's important that people do come together and you know, i think often dialogue is a key to bringing people together and that's crucial. and that‘s where i‘m going to leave it. thank you very much for your time. thank you very much, and thank you for all your messages about the bravery of the romanian baker, florin, you can find what he said to us on social media. stick with bbc news for more reaction through the day. wet and windy weather to come. we have had rain stretching across scotland, northern england, down through wales and into south—west england and this is slowly pushing its way eastwards. already an improving picture across northern ireland. a better day here compared to the weekend. sunshine and showers. the same across scotland once we clear that band of rain to the east, but across england and wales, it is a wet affair and heavy
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and persistent rain pushing eastwards. may not reach east anglia and kent until the afternoon. highs of 19 celsius, but feeling cool underneath the wind and the rain and the southerly winds strengthening through this afternoon and through the evening. could well touch gale force along the south coast. overnight, our ban of rain pushes its way northwards and eases across england and wales and temperatures overnight, staying in double figures for most. but a cool north—westerly wind tomorrow pushing frequent showers across england and wales, we could well have a rumble of thunder, but rain continuing across northern england and scotland. this is bbc news.
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i‘mjane hill live in borough market near london bridge. police investigating saturday night‘s terror attack in london say they know the identity of the three attackers who killed seven people and injured 48. officers raid properties in east london in the early hours of this morning, arresting several more people the first person known to have died in the attack is christine archibald — a 30—year—old canadian social worker in london with herfiance. it is now clear that, sadly, victims came from a number of nationalities. this was an attack on london and the united

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