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tv   BBC News at Five  BBC News  June 5, 2017 5:00pm-6:01pm BST

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today at 5 — i'm jane hill, live from borough market where the investigation into saturday's attack continues. police say they know the identities of the three men involved. more properties in east london have been raided in the early hours of this morning — a number of people have been detained. christine archibald from canada is the first victim to be named. the 30—year—old was visiting london for the first time with her fiance. 36 people are still being treated in hospitals across the capital — 18 remain in a critical condition. we'll have the very latest on the terror attack investigation. in other news: in the general election campaign labour and conservatives clash over police numbers and who's best placed to protect the country. the first funeral for a victim
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of the manchester bombing — 14—year—old eilidh macleod is laid to rest on the scottish island of barra. good evening from london bridge. we are still at the police cordon following the attack on saturday night. the metropolitan police commissioner cressida dick says they already know the identity of the attackers, and that their names will be released "as soon as operationally possible" as officers work to establish if they were part of a wider network. their investigation is focussed on several
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addresses in east london — with a "number of people" detained following raids in newham and barking. richard galpin has the latest. this is borough market in the midst of the attack. it's being filmed by florin morariu, who's from romania. but instead of running to safety, he attacks the three men stabbing people in front of him. translation: i really thought i was in danger so i threw a bread crate at one of the attackers. i saw he was going to dodge it so i hit him on the head with another crate. he also sheltered 20 people in the bakery where he works. they and many others describing him as a hero. but already seven people were dead and more than 20 critically injured. 30—year—old christine archibald
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from canada is the first of those killed to have been named. she left canada to be with herfiance and died in his arms on london bridge on saturday night. the police are working hard to establish the identity of all of those who were tragically killed or injured in the event on saturday night, but it is now clear that sadly victims came from a number of nationalities. this was an attack on london and the united kingdom but it was also an attack on the free world. this morning counterterrorism police carried out more raids in north—east london, targeting two properties, as the hunt for any accomplices of the attackers continues. around about 4:10 this morning i heard a massive loud explosion, gunshots, about 20 gunshots going off across the road at an mot car tyre place across the road from us. loads of unmarked police.
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the police say they already know the identity of the three attackers. but while so—called islamic state claims it was behind the attack, the police doubt the militant group was directly involved. all the recent attacks, i think, have a primarily domestic centre of gravity. in the five we have foiled and these three recent attacks, in some of them there are undoubtedly international dimensions. we will always be looking to see if anything has been directed from overseas but i would say the majority of the threat we are facing at the moment doesn't appear to be directed from overseas. in the last hour, the mayor of london has condemned what he described as the poisonous ideology of the men who carried out the attack. the acts of these three men on saturday night was cowardly, was evil, and i'm angry and furious that these three men are seeking to justify their actions
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by using the faith that i belong to, to justify their actions. the ideology they follow is perverse and is poisonous, and it has no place in islam. this was the third attack injust three months. two of them on bridges, where security is now being increased. and the threat level remains at severe, meaning yet another attack is highly likely. richard galpin, bbc news. let's get the latest on the investigation and our home affairs correspondent, daniel sandford is at the metropolitan police headquarters at new scotland yard. what is known, how much more is
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known, daniel about the three men, those men who were shot dead by armed police officers here on saturday night? as you are saying at the beginning, cressida dick made it clear this morning that they know the identities of the three men and they are quite satisfied that the three people shot dead by police word the three suspects involved in carrying out that attack on london bridge and in borough market. the police at this stage have still not made public what they believe those names to be. now i think that could happen quite soon, but at this stage, they have not made it public and they are still asking the media in the meantime not to make those names public while theyjust do the last little bits of expanding the investigation and that the media by naming them don't somehow want someone naming them don't somehow want someone in advance. so i can give you some clues as to who these people might be. one is a pakistani
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man who comes from barking, which is an every of north—east london. he is 27 years old. it has a young family, so that is one of them. another is a man of moroccan origin who have married a white woman. a woman that we believe was actually arrested. at 32—year—old white woman was arrested, though we don't believe he would any longer with her. that is an interesting story. the third identity we are less sure about, but the police say they will give the identities as soon as they can. so apart from that what might be the next stage of this investigation, daniel? the investigation has me slowly today. there were a couple of extra raids overnight. 0ne slowly today. there were a couple of extra raids overnight. one in barking and one in the neighbouring
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borough of newham. whilst they have spoken to people, they have not said that they have formally arrested them. although we have seen pictures of people being led away from those properties, we are not clear whether anyone has been arrested in those raids. it looks that the rapidly —— it looks like the rapidly expanding investigation we saw yesterday as got to the outer limits. the police do know who carried out the attack, but it when we left at that. there isa but it when we left at that. there is a lot of detailed work to be done, notjust is a lot of detailed work to be done, not just that the crime is a lot of detailed work to be done, notjust that the crime scenes where you are, but going through the mend's phones and computers, trying to tease out every last detail and work out if anyone else who has not been shot dead he might have been involved in this. daniel, thank you very much for now. our home affairs correspondent daniel sandford
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following the investigation. the first victim of the attack to be named is 30—year—old canadian national christine archibald. she was living in the netherlands with her fiance and had travelled to london with him for the weekend. it was her first visit to london and in the last few minutes the sister ofjames in the last few minutes the sister of james mcmullen has in the last few minutes the sister ofjames mcmullen has confirmed in the last few minutes the sister of james mcmullen has confirmed that she believes he was killed in the attack. a french citizen was also killed, and four others seriously hurt. four australians are also known to have been caught up in the attack. all of this reminds us what a multicultural city london is. daniela relph reports. to herfamily, she was chrissie, a person who had room in their heart for everyone, they said. a person who believed everyone should be valued and respected. christine had moved to europe from canada to be with her fiance, tyler.
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on saturday night she died in tyler's arms. they had been walking over london bridge as the attack began. he was a little bit ahead of her. he heard tyres screeching and he looked back and he just saw the mayhem that was going on and be fan hitting people. then he ran up and tried cpr on her and she passed in his arms. in a statement her family said she wouldn't have understood the callous cruelty of her death. they also made this plea... australian candice hedge was stabbed in the neck on saturday night.
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she had been trying to hide from the attackers in borough market. her family believe she is actually one of the lucky ones. i was really scared, yeah, really, really scared. we eventually got onto the hospital. they spoke to me and said she had gone to surgery. she had a knife wound in her neck. across the london hospitals, the injured are still being treated. at king's college hospital, seven people remain critically ill. all the patients are being cared for by intensive care and surgical teams, who are doing an excellentjob. a number of patients remain in critical care, where they receive good treatment, and i expect them to remain there for a number of days or weeks to come. at the new york stock exchange, silence before trading started. those injured in the attack are
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being remembered. prince harry paused in silent reflection at a polo match. in the coming hours and days, the names of the other six killed will be made public, as will the anguish and pain of their family and friends. daniela relph, bbc news. 0ur correspondent simonjones is at king's college hospital in central london where some of the injured are being treated. what are you hearing where you are? 36 people injured in the attack on saturday night remain in hospital. half of those are in a critical condition, including seven here at this hospital. they tell me be types of wins they have been treating of sta b of wins they have been treating of stab wounds to be face, neck and torso. they have also been treating
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patients who were run down by the van used by the three attackers. they are also four police officers who have been injured. 0ne they are also four police officers who have been injured. one was from the british transport police and one was an off duty metropolitan police officer. he is in a serious condition. a plain clothed police officer was injured along with a uniformed officer. 0n officer was injured along with a uniformed officer. on saturday night this hospital went into the emergency procedure. they have practised for this in the past, but on saturday night it became a reality. the head of the emergency department told me he got in on saturday evening and a lot of staff members have been called in to cope with the situation. he said when you are faced with it, you get on with yourjob. that is what you are paid to do, but when you get home after your shift and you are exhausted and start thinking about what you have seen and the injuries. he said it was depressing that this was becoming more familiar because he
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and many of the staff members here dealt with the aftermath of the westminster terror attack. we have heard lots of stories during the day of bravery, of how the ambulance crews after being called work on the scene within six minutes. another clinicians said that he was cycling home after his shift and saw police activity around london bridge. people something happens, he didn't know what, but he headed straight back to the hospital and carried on working and was there to help on the first arrived. he said this attack has affected lots of people from around the world, lots of different nationalities have been involved. we have seen camera crews from around the world waiting for updates. a sign of how many people on how many different nationalities have been affected by these events. simon, thank you. that is a similar situation here at the police cordoned. a large number of countries represented by the media here. let's talk a little bit more
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about the investigation. the head of the metropolitan police says they know the name of the attackers, but they haven't been named. cressida dick said that these latest attack in the uk don't appear to have been directed from overseas. 0ur security correspondent frank gardner has more on that. chasing down a suspect in east london, as armed police aim their weapons. in east london, as armed for the third time in three months, police are scrambling to follow up leads in the wake of an attack. in barking in east london, suspects were made to lie on the ground. many of those arrested were women. this is one of the three murderers on saturday night after being shot dead by police. it's emerged that at least one of the three had been reported for his extremist views, but apparently no action was taken. we have hundreds and hundreds
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of officers engaged in trying to piece together whether anybody else knew about the attack or planned or supported it in any way at all, and we have been arresting people. it's the conflict in syria that has massively ramped up the terrorist threat. hundreds of british jihadis have gone to join the ranks of so—called islamic state. as that group faces defeat in the middle east, hundreds have come back and thousands more are being recruited into islamic extremism over the internet. what we have seen after this flurry of attacks now is that people are becoming frustrated, people do want to see concrete steps and actions from the government in a meaningful way that can mitigate this threat, that can manage it down. educating people about the risks of radicalisation extends even into the classroom. this was a school in waverley, birmingham. the government's prevent programme aims to steer people away from extremism before it's too late. help groups have also been set up to offer advice to vulnerable families. having that deep involvement,
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actually that parental control so to speak... yeah. which is the key here. and that's why our work is centred around mothers, because they are the key change makers. they are the first ones to spot the signs. given the state of the terrorist threat, this is unlikely to be the last time britain mourns its victims from an attack on our streets. police action can only go so far. challenging the ideology that feeds terrorism has now become the priority. frank gardner, bbc news. we were talking about those who have died, the nationalities. just a little bit more on the big teams. just a little bit more information that has come to him a last few moments. we have been hearing from someone called melissa mcmullen. she has been telling journalists that she is as sure as she can be, she
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believes that her brotherjames is among those killed. so melissa mcmullen telling journalists that she believes her brotherjames mcmullen is one of the seven people who lost their lives here in london bridge on saturday night. this is the first image we have been sent off him.james the first image we have been sent off him. james mcmullan believed to be one of the people who lost their lives during the attack on london bridge and borough market. he sister melissa told journalists that he was a fantastic brother and did not deserve to die. the latest there from melissa mcmullan who said her brother is one of the victims. 36 people are still in hospital, 18 of them still in critical care. also a
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line has come through from the ip cc, the independent police complaints commission who will be investigating the shootings on saturday. it is routine, that is what they do after a fatal shooting. that statement coming through from the ipc seem in the last few moments. —— ipcc. we will have more for you later. and now, back to the studio. campaigning has resumed for thursday's general election after being suspended because of the terror attack here on saturday night. the prime minister has defended her record on counter—terrorism and policing, as labour claims the reduction in police numbers has hampered their ability to gather intelligence and prevent radicalisation. 0ur senior correspondent vicky young
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is at westminster. they have been to terrorist attacks doing the election campaign, but today neither side was holding back with just three days to go until polling day. labour have been on the attack over police numbers. they said theresa may, because she has been no secretary for six years, she has resided over reductions in the number of believes, she has chosen to emphasise that the counterterrorism budget has been protected, but she was asked repeatedly today by journalists to explain the reduction in police numbers. i have answered the question about policing, but i'm very happy to repeat what we have been doing in policing, which is we have been protecting counterterrorism policing. we have provided a funding uplift in armed
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policing. from 2015 we have protected the budgets. jeremy corbyn's from ben said that police budgets could be cut by 10%. we are protecting them. it's also about the powers you give the police and i have been responsible through a numberof have been responsible through a number of pieces of legislation i'd introduced to give extra power to the police to do with terrorism. jeremy corbyn has boasted that he has opposed every piece of anti—terror legislation since he came into parliament. theresa may said it's not just came into parliament. theresa may said it's notjust about numbers, it's about the powers you give the police. she used that to turn her fire onjeremy corbyn. she said that throughout his career he made it it's —— his life's ambition to get rid of trident, he has given ira cover and he has a potion to kill. she said he is now trying to hide from or deny his previous views, but there was a wider question that we have got into and that is about what any new government would do about
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the threat and whether police numbers really are the reason behind all of this, or is it about strategies to make sure this does not happen, what to do about british born and raised people who have gone to fight for isis and help combat to this country. that is a much broader issue that we haven't got into this election campaign. thank you. vicky young bear at westminster. alex forsyth is on tyneside, following jeremy corbyn. we heard theresa may the defending her record on law and order. jeremy corbyn has had to defend some of his comments in the past on this topic. as vicky said, three days out from what has happened, understandably security has become an issue at the heart of the election campaign. jeremy corbyn is due to appear here. despite the
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rain, he will address this rally and a number of people have turned up. it's the fourth visit he has made today across the north—east of england and ostensibly labour wanted to be talking about housing policy but the issue of security has come up but the issue of security has come up time and time again labour has been highly critical of the conservatives for what they say are cuts in police numbers meaning that the police and security services are under resourced and can't do the job. jeremy corbyn the labour leader even appear to back calls for theresa may to resign, even though we are three days away from the general election. i asked we are three days away from the general election. iasked him we are three days away from the general election. i asked him to clarify those comments this afternoon. did he has factories are made to resign? this is what he said? i'm not backing away from anything. what i am saying is that there was an election and there is a choice ahead for everyone. 20,000 police officers have lose their jobs, firefighters of lose their jobs, firefighters of lose their jobs, ambulance crews can't cope because of the pressure they are
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under. she is home secretary needs to speak about what she did when she was home secretary. so she should resign? i want to be clear. let us be clear. there is an election on, everyone has a choice and a lot of people are angry and they would have wanted her to resign had she still been home secretary. the choice will been home secretary. the choice will be made on thursday by the people of this country. sirjeremy corbyn said effectively the verdict will be up to the british people when they go to the british people when they go to the british people when they go to the ballot box on thursday. as you heard from vicky young, the conservatives in the past had the upper hand on this. they have repeatedly accused jeremy corbyn of being soft on terror. they pulled up his record when it comes to counterterrorism legislation. mr corbyn and his allies make it clear that any vote he has taken part in has been about scrutiny and he himself has gone some way to squash
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any suggestion he is soft on terror. he says he will not hesitate to make sure that the police and security forces ta ke sure that the police and security forces take whatever action they need to take to keep the countryside. we are three days away from the huge choice the country is facing and because of what has happened in london and manchester the leader of every political party is not just facing the leader of every political party is notjust facing questions during the election campaign about what they do about security, more importantly, whoever wins power will have to address this issue. alex forsyth, thank you very much. throughout the election campaign we've been asking for your questions to put to politicians from the main parties. over the last couple of week's we've heard from the conservatives, liberal democrats, snp and labour. today, with only a few days to go until the polls open, it's the turn of the green party. and i'm joined by the party's co—leaderjonathan bartley. thank you for coming in. you've been
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talking about a progressive alliance. is it taking off? no, it has been disappointing. we did right tojeremy has been disappointing. we did right to jeremy corbyn and has been disappointing. we did right tojeremy corbyn and tim farron about how we can work together where there is common ground. we can agree that what the conservative woman has done has been reckless. chickens are now coming home to roost. sadly they did not come and talk and did not wa nt to did not come and talk and did not want to work with us. politics should be about moving beyond tribalism. a lot of the questions that people have sent into was related to that. we will begin with an e—mail. this is from efo murray. he says what is a green party standing down to give labour or the conservatives a better chance of winning regardless of manifesto? we felt someone is to make the first move and despite the reticence from
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jeremy corbyn and tim farron, in those seats weather was a chance of getting a progressive candidate elected, we needed to do the right thing. if there is one less conservative mp, it will be the green party that won it in the circumstances. unfortunately, the nature of our broken system, people wa nt nature of our broken system, people want more choices and we have a first past the post system and we don't get a fair representation. at the last election we should have had 24 mp5 the last election we should have had 2a mps in the house of commons. the bush —— that would have shook up british politics. efo is driving at your manifesto. you are willing to stand with these other parties. your manifesto. you are willing to stand with these other partiesm isa stand with these other partiesm is a question of degrees. in the real world , is a question of degrees. in the real world, no one signed up 100% to a party manifesto. people don't divide neatly into three different parties. we share common ground with
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labour, although we do disagree fundamentally on issues like airport expansion and trident. we will hold their feet to the fire. efo murray, thank you for your e—mail. are the chances of a coalition between the lib dems? for us is is about working on a case—by—case basis. we have an important role to play. 0ne basis. we have an important role to play. one of the things we push for isa play. one of the things we push for is a the voting system so we never have to go through this again. it is very clear that people want the diversity of choice. let us remember what this is about. it's not the presidential election. you are voting for your local mp and at the
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general election when people cast their votes, the mps won't change. it's only a small amount of seats that change hands. people can vote for the green party with confidence where there is a green candidate standing. if you think back to 2015, we had ukip. although they did win a seat at the election, they now have none, but they shifted the political debate in this country. they said john, the government said how high? if you've over the green party at this election, you take the whole country in a very different direction. we have changed the labour party. some items in the labour party. some items in the labour manifesto but taken from the green party. of course the conservatives would argue that they are notjumping to the tune of ukip, but there you go. let's go on to the third question. this is anonymous.
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how does the green party reconcile protecting the environment while opposing immigration? for us, we need to look ahead and we need to look at what is going to happen in the next five, ten, 30 years. as the planet warms up, even with the paris agreement, that might get asked to limit temperature increases. it will create climate refugees and is about saying we don't have to go on generating huge amounts of wealth. the issue is the wealth redistribution. 30 years ago i was told that we would have all this wealth created, all this technological advance, we would work fewer hours. we have had the wealth creation and the technology will advance —— abeid technological
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advance, but we need more global equality. we don't need to keep creating refugees. we also don't need to deny that things are going on. how do you think moving forward asa on. how do you think moving forward as a nation we should be prepared to face the new challenges associated with this? i'm proud of us being the only party looking ahead in those terms. we need to look at how we can create a shorter working week. we know we will get a huge job losses because of things are automated ca rs. because of things are automated cars. we are facing challenges across different sectors. we need to start having the conversation now. the existing welfare state was set up the existing welfare state was set up with a different set of assumptions and it is creaking under the strain of things changing and the strain of things changing and the assault by this government on
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our welfare state. we think we can reimagine it. progressive taxation can provide security. the people need to have choices. we will leave it there. thank you very much. tonight on bbc one at 9pm there is a question time special. as we have been reporting in the last half an hour another victim of saturday's attack at london bridge has been named, james mcmahon and. his sister melissa said the family now believe he is dead in a distressing statement. this morning we received news from the police that my
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brother's bank card was found on one of the bodies from saturday night's brutal attack but they are unable to formally identify him until the coroner's report begins tomorrow. we would like to send our condolences to the relatives and loved ones of all the people who lost their lives. 0ur all the people who lost their lives. our thoughts are with them also at this time. we would like to thank all the members of the services dominic day majesty services who did all they could to protect the population of london from beast arranged and deluded individuals. while our pain will never diminish its important for us to carry on with our lives in direct opposition to those who would try to destroy us and remember that hatred is the refuge of small—minded individuals and will only breed more. this is not a course we will follow despite our loss. from his friends that were with him on the night they want
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eve ryo ne with him on the night they want everyone to know what a generous and caring friend he was. words will never be able to match his essence. they will only ever be one james, nowhere else will you find such humourand nowhere else will you find such humour and unique personality, someone who puts friends and family above all else. he was an inspiration. melissa mcmullan, the family have just found out that her brotherjames was killed in the london bridge attack and in the knife attack at borough market. they had just found out the distressing news. time to look at the weather. we have some rain in the forecast, something we have not seen much of during the month of may and as you can see from this weather watcher‘s picture in trevor roe some of it is heavy and in the south—west in the
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last few hours it has started to gather in intensity and the winds are strengthening —— true row. take ca re if are strengthening —— true row. take care if you are on the roads in the early evening rush—hour, especially in western areas, the rain will push eastwards for the remainder of the evening and during the overnight period. the winds strengthening to gale force on exposed coasts and the rain very persistent running through the night. first thing tomorrow morning it is likely the rain will sit across central and northern areas of scotland as well as central and south—eastern areas of england as well. but it will be easing here. it will lingerfor some as well. but it will be easing here. it will linger for some time across the far north—east, sunny spells and scattered showers behind, still windy on exposed coasts, temperatures feeling disappointing at this time of year. a brief window of fine and quieter weather on wednesday when we could see temperatures returning to highs of 20 degrees across the capital. hello, this is the bbc news at 5pm.
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iam hello, this is the bbc news at 5pm. i am clive myrie. the top stories now. police say they know the identities of the three men involved in saturday's attack, as detectives carry out further raids in east london. 30—year—old christine archibald from canada was the first victim to be named. the sister of james canada was the first victim to be named. the sister ofjames mcmullan says she believes her brother is among the dead. 36 people are still being treated in hospitals across the capital — 18 remain in a critical condition. security has taken centre—stage of the election campaign — labour and conservatives have clashed over police numbers the actor peter sallis, best known for his role as claggy in last of the summer wine has died, he was 96. —— clegg. time to look at the sports
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news from the bbc sportsound. good afternoon. in the last hour, it's been confirmed that former newcastle midfielder cheick tiote has died at the age of 30. he's said to have collapsed during training with his club, beijing enterprises in china. 0ur sports news correspondent richard conwayjoins me now. richard, what more can you tell us about this sad event? bagnis breaking in the last few minutes about cheick tiote, as you say, he was playing for beijing enterprises, a chinese second division team, he moved there this year. he spent from 2010-2017 with moved there this year. he spent from 2010—2017 with newcastle united making over 150 appearances for the team. ina making over 150 appearances for the team. in a statement the club say their thoughts are with his friends and family. he is remembered on tyneside fondly, particularly for his one and only goal for the club, a thunderous volley for arsenal in 2011. cheick tiote passing away after collapsing in training, and
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his agent saying that thoughts are with his friends and family at the moment. cheick tiote passing away at the age of 30 years old. thank you for the latest on that, we will have more on that later in sportsday on 6:30pm as well. chelsea winger eden hazard will have surgery today after breaking his ankle on sunday while on international duty with belgium. the premier league champions are waiting to discover if he'll be fit for the start of next season. hazard will miss belgium's friendly on monday against the czech republic and their world cup qualifier against estonia on friday. there's nothing official on how long he'll be out for. 0ne one other piece of news before i go, andy murray is through to the french 0pen quarterfinals after winning in straight sets over russia's karen khachanov, the world number one dominated against the unseeded 21—year—old, murray taking the first set 6—3 and he had a brief wobble in the second and was broken but he took it 6—4 command wrap things up
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taking the third 6—4 to secure a last eight tie with kei nishikori. that is all the sport from me for now. you can keep up—to—date with those stories on the bbc website, champions trophy cricket going on at the oval, and i will have a comprehensive look at all of the day's sports news at 6:30pm. join me for that. thank you, catherine. more now on the london bridge terror attack. scotland yard know the identites of the london bridge attackers and are expected to release them soon. the head of the metropolitan police, cressida dick, has said the security forces are having to adapt to "a new reality" after the third terror attack in less than three months. with me to discuss some of these issues is peter taylor, the veteran bbcjournalist who has reported on terrorism for 45 years. it is good to see you. i almost said half a century but that would have sounded worse. it is great to have you in. the threat this country faces at the moment, terrorism is
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nothing new, obviously, we have faced anarchism at the end of the 19th century, the ira command other potential groups, but is this a different kind of enemy that this country is facing that we don't really know how to deal with?|j think the problem is that the nature of this particular enemy could not be more different than, for example, the ira. because it is driven by an ideology that we don't really understand. it's an ideology that we find very difficult to combat. it's an enemy which is utterly ruthless, the kind of enemy we have never really faced before. the ira was ruthless but nothing like the islamic state, or even al-qaeda despite 9/11. the ira produced warnings. the warnings were not a lwa ys warnings. the warnings were not always properly carried out. because they are under so much pressure in
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syria in mosul and raqqa, they are encouraging their supporters online, that's the great difference in the way terrorism operates from operating online, often with encrypted apps like telegram, encouraging their supporters to do their own thing, that thing being murderous and bloody and appalling. if we look at the most recent two attacks, one of them in manchester, that was the first mass casualty attack since the dreadful 7/7 bombings, and the attack on london bridge and borough market, which is low intensity, in other words you don't have to have a weapon, you don't have to have a weapon, you don't need to nick a truck, buy a couple of knives and commit mayhem. that's the kind of enemy that we are facing. the reason why we were able in the end to end the violence, or most of it, in northern ireland is because we talked to the enemy, we
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talked to the ira. the notion of talking to the islamic state, although there are those who believe we should and it would be profitable, is almost unthinkable because they are not susceptible to the kind of reason that the ira, if you want to call it reason, was susceptible to. pastoral problem in how we deal with it. over my 45 yea rs how we deal with it. over my 45 years covering the phenomenon of terrorism and political violence i've seen lots of funerals, death and suffering and lots and lots of loss and governments struggling to cope with it and i think our government and governments all over the world, western governments, are struggling to cope with this phenomenon of so—called islamic state, and this kind of terrorism. it is not just state, and this kind of terrorism. it is notjust resource on, is it? the suggestion is if we had more police on the streets and there has been a big argument between the labour party and conservatives over cuts, things might be different, but it's not just cuts, things might be different, but
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it's notjust that, it's what goes on behind the scenes. absolutely. the unfortunate thing is there is now apparent evidence there were warnings. members of the public. the police are consistently urging the muslim community and the community in general to report anything u ntowa rd in general to report anything untoward that they see. it is u nfortu nate untoward that they see. it is unfortunate and distressing to see that when these warnings are given no action appears to have been taken. i think it's unlikely that nothing was done, if you phone the anti—terrorist hotline that they write it on a piece of paper and throw it in the wastepaper bin. it doesn't happen like that. the problem is prioritising the surveillance and prioritising the target, and action is only really taken when there is intelligence, not evidence, that they sell or a group of individuals are planning an attack, attack planning, and that is when action is taken. it is difficult to take action against some bully who may be suspect, but there is no evidence to bring them
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to justice there is no evidence to bring them tojustice —— there is no evidence to bring them to justice —— a there is no evidence to bring them tojustice —— a cell. in northern ireland we had internment, there we re ireland we had internment, there were lots of suspected ira men and women against whom there was no evidence to bring to trial. we simply locked them up. i was surprised to hear some politicians saying that internment is the answer to our problem. interment is the last solution. if more draconian legislation is introduced, and what we have at the moment is pretty draconian, the danger is you alienate the very people, the muslim community in particular, whose support you need to try and defeat terrorism. that's the worry and it is striking that balance between liberty and security. we more or less have the balance right and we have to be careful we don't swing over the other way and simply help radicalise more young muslims. the internment in northern ireland helped turn a lot of people, who we re helped turn a lot of people, who were perhaps not sympathetic in the
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way of getting involved violently against british rule. internment helped to radicalise them. but if internment isn't the answer, if you feel that we have roughly got the balance between surveillance and civil liberties roughly right then what is the answer? the answer is better intelligence, and better intelligence means recruiting more people to the intelligence services, it means getting the confidence of the muslim community, of the broad body of the muslim community, to assist in providing information and intelligence necessary. you talk to the police and talk to m15 and they say that the flow of intelligence from within the community is greater than it's ever been before. the muslim community, and we're talking essentially about the most community, is a vast reservoir of intelligence and i suspect that although many people do get in touch with the anti—terrorist hotline,
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it's probably a trickle compared to the reservoir which is there. it is gaining the confidence of that community. i think the new government, whatever it is, will review the prevent strategy to try and make it more accessible and less ofa and make it more accessible and less of a toxic brand which is seen by many of the members of the muslim community, i think for the wrong reasons but that's another matter. we will talk about the prevent strategy now. thank you, peter. let's move on. in 2002 hanif qadir travelled to afghanistan to fight for al-qaeda, but quickly returned after realising he was being radicalised and manipulated. hanif returned to the uk and founded the organisation active change foundation to stop others taking the same path. hanif is in our central london studio for us now. hanif, thank you forjoining us. hanif, thank you forjoining usm isa hanif, thank you forjoining usm is a pleasure. first of all, your reflections on what has happened over the last few weeks in the
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country. we have had ramadan, we have had this attack, ramadan is only a week old, we have another three to go but we have had three major attacks in this country in three months, two in two weeks. three too many, i'm afraid.|j three months, two in two weeks. three too many, i'm afraid. i came back and i was screaming at the top of my voice, i was frustrated and devastated when i heard of these attacks. i go up, back 12 or 13 yea rs attacks. i go up, back 12 or 13 years ago when i was trying to start this organisation. i was trying to get the organisation to see how serious a threat we had coming our way, that was in 2003. three significant events on our land killing so many people in such a short time, it was shocking, it is devastating, it is appalling and it should not have happened and could have been prevented, i'm afraid. you say it could have been prevented. you were at the sort of genesis of the prevent strategy, you were involved in getting this thing off
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the ground. there have been lots of criticisms of it and the suggestion is that it isn't working as well as it should be. why isn't it working, do you think? firstly, when we started the work we funded it ourselves so we never had a problem getting involved with communities. various people in our communities that don't want prevent to work a nyway that don't want prevent to work anyway and those other people that we need to work against —— there are people. the reason why it is not working is that... let me rephrase that. prevent is an absolute remarkable programme if it works properly and if communication, like peter said, you need to have the communication channel. these three people, all were known to the authorities, nobody intervened at a grass roots level. my work from the beginning when we started from 2003 is about going out and reaching out to those high—risk individuals at
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the cutting edge and trying to change their world view. we do it theologically, we do it emotionally, we do it in theologically, we do it emotionally, we do itina theologically, we do it emotionally, we do it in a number of ways. that's what didn't happen in these three incidents and it's a shame because had there been an organisation that was tasked to intervene with these quys was tasked to intervene with these guys i'm pretty confident that this could have been prevented. why? because we could have given them theological arguments, social mentoring, and if it didn't work we could have worked with the authorities and said we feel that this person is moving forward positively, or we feel that he is a significant risk to the community. measures would have been put in place, control orders, surveillance, or other measures put in place to prevent or other measures put in place to p reve nt a ny or other measures put in place to prevent any atrocity of this nature. that didn't happen. that is where it has failed, unfortunately because people didn't communicate to the right departments below. isn't that pa rt right departments below. isn't that part of the problem? that this information is being put into the
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system, as you say, a couple of people apparently got into touch with the anti—terrorist hotline in relation to one of these attackers at london bridge, and that information simply seemed to get lost in the system, or it wasn't dealt with in an appropriate way. are you saying society needs to reach out to these individuals rather than coming the other way? everybody has a role. i mentioned a few months ago this issue is perhaps the biggest challenge of our age and people were laughing at me, you are over exaggerating the issue. it is the biggest challenge of our age, especially community groups must get involved. must be a trusted relationship and understanding with authorities, community groups like ours and other members of the community as as well as central government. trust is a two—way street. if you don't trust me enough to share this kind of information so ican go
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to share this kind of information so i can go out and engage with those people, or if you allow me to take the risks which are needed, prevent isa the risks which are needed, prevent is a risky business, and if you don't allow us to take those risks we are going to fail. how do you improve prevent now? how do you from this day forward move on to try and deal with individuals who could become radicalised? it is an absolutely brilliant question and i have written a whole book about this. i'm afraid we haven't got the time soi this. i'm afraid we haven't got the time so i can give you the right answer. i am extending my hand back to government, batted theresa may, back to amber rudd, let's sit down, listen to us, we have experience of dealing with this problem at a cutting—edge. i've been there, i've seen the lens through the eyes of a terrorist, we can come up with a programme that will work and will get communities on board effectively. it is now or never. if we don't reach out to our community, sit down and have this discussion
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now, when are they going to have it? how many more lives is it going to take? there is a lot of thinking to be had here and i've written extensively about it on the book on what needs to be done. i would love to sit down here for half an hour and go through it with you but we can't. sadly we don't have the time but that was fascinating, hanif qadir, thank you forjoining us. pleasure. the funeral of a victim of the manchester arena bombing has taken place on the island of the outer hebrides. eilidh macleod was on a school outing to see ariana grande when a suicide bomber killed 22 people at the concert. her friend laura macintyre who is 15 is still in hospital. andre gray at atlantic skies eilidh macleod was returned to her island home. slowly, gently, her coffin carried across the sand. as a piper played music the teenager had
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been learning. this small community on the peaceful island worth a eilidh lives has been in shock at her death. the local school closed, businesses shut, as hundreds of islanders filled the church and lined the streets for her funeral. her family wanted this to bea funeral. her family wanted this to be a celebration of a liam mcleod's life, a young girl with an endearing and infectious personality, kind and cheerful, who loved music, reading, spending time with her friends. cheerful, who loved music, reading, spending time with herfriends. ian had gone to manchester with her friend laura macintyre. she remains in hospital with serious injuries. her uncle said the legacy of her memory was now the island's two cherries and protect. in contrast to the hate that of her life, her life was and now stands as testament for ever to the of love, of innocence,
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goodness, generosity, kindness, faith. she will be laid to rest in the village in which she grew up, beautiful girl, her parents said, who would stay eternally young, loved by all, and for ever in their hearts. lorna gordon, bbc news, the western isles. back to the london bridge terror attack. hundreds of people are gathering in the area for a vigil to remember those killed and injured on saturday. jane hill is at london bridge for us. that vigil begins very soon. you get the sense around here it's an awful lot busier. lots more people coming to lay flowers behind me. people leaving flowers at the end of the
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first working day since the terrorist attack on saturday night, those killed and injured on saturday will be remembered. let'sjoin our correspondent vishala sri—pathma, but is the mood and will have people been saying to you? crowds are still gathering outside city hall. about 45 minutes ago there were a few people around and now hundreds, up to about 1000 people here, generally a very solemn mood in the air, people on their way home from work, it is key commuting time and two of those people and and lydia. you have both come down after work on your way home. why is it important to you? mainly to pay respects to the innocent that lost their lives and to their families. and also to show unity and love and that no matter what happens in london we won't be divided by hateful acts. and to
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stand together as a city. you both reside south of the river, south londoners, you are part of the city. how do you feel after the attacks? do you feel safe or a sense of concern? it is only natural to feel concerned. but i feel that i am in safe hands and as anna said we will stick closer together and we won't let this divide us and it will make us let this divide us and it will make us stronger as a whole. let this divide us and it will make us stronger as a wholelj let this divide us and it will make us stronger as a whole. i don't fear for my life or worry living in london, i think it's an incredibly safe place to live and this was a terrible unfortunate act but the way the police responded was incredible. that fills me with more hope than fear. it's monday, the start of the working week, how did you feel coming into work this morning? gloomy. yes, it's a sad feeling in the city, how could it not be?m
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gloomy. yes, it's a sad feeling in the city, how could it not be? it is so the city, how could it not be? it is so close, we literally work down there and it is so close to home, but i suppose you've got to try to be strong and carry on. keep going and not let it fill us with fear. thank you very much forjoining us. that vigil is due to start in the next few minutes in the stage area over there. back to you, jane. thank you. that vigil begins at 6pm. just to explain, we will have full coverage of the event at city hall, a very poignant moment. if you would like to see that coverage on the bbc news channel... broadcast interrupted by interference. studio: i apologise for the break—up in the picture with jane at london bridge. that vigil is due to start at the top of the how and the news
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at the top of the how and the news at six will be coming up. we will join ros atkins live on the news channel for the vigil of saturday night's london bridge attack. now it is time for a look at the weather. louise lear has the details. we didn't see much rain through the month of may but this week the first full week ofjune, we're going to see plenty of it and plenty of signs of that arriving as we speak. be careful on the roads in the rush hour because in the south—west we have seen some heavy and persistent rain which will continue to push steadily north and east through this evening. some rain quite heavy, accompanied by gale force gusts of wind is pushing steadily north and east. it will slowly clear from northern ireland to the western fringes. gales light—year across much of england and wales. slowly
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easing away to sunny spells and scattered showers further south. top temperatures looking disappointing. their window a fine weather across wednesday and a little warmer, highs of 20 degrees. this is bbc news. the bbc can confirm that the izza 27—year—old barking. the vigil is about to take place to remember the victims of the terror attack. the first of the victims is named as christine archibald from canada. she was visiting london for the first time with her fiance.
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