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tv   BBC News  BBC News  June 6, 2017 4:00pm-5:01pm BST

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this is bbc news. the headlines at 4:00pm. french police say they have shot a man at notre dame after he tried to use a hammer. the third london bridge attacker is named as 22—year—old moroccan—italian youssef zaghba, italian authorities had stopped him travelling to syria last year. a minute's silence is held across the uk for the seven who were killed and the dozens more injured in the attack. tributes are paid to an australian nurse as she ran towards people on the bridge. another australian, 21—year—old sara zelenak, has been missing since saturday, her aunt says they fear the worst. she's one of those people who doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs, doesn't do anything wrong. she's amazing and she's 21 years of age. prince charles and camilla visit the royal london hospital where 12 of the injured were taken on saturday night.
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rbs reaches a £200 million settlement with investors who say they were misled about the bank's strength during the financial crisis. and it's twice the size ofjupiter with a temperature of over 4,000 degrees celsius — scientists discover the hottest planet ever found. good afternoon and welcome to bbc news. french police say they have shot a man at the pick eagle of notre dame in paris after he tried to attack and officer using a hammer. police have closed the area and are asking people to stay away. reports say the attacker has been injured and his condition is not clear. 0n the line
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now is a witness inside the cathedral. what are you seeing, what is happening outside? we cannot see anything outside. we are inside the cathedral and closed in, obviously. what happened, when will you aware there was a problem?” what happened, when will you aware there was a problem? i was getting my bag checked and i was about to come inside i heard the gunshots and turned around and we saw a man on the ground. we are talking about one of the most popular tourist destinations in paris, clearly there must have been lots of people around at the time? there were tonnes of people running in all directions. we we re people running in all directions. we were brought inside at that time. just looking at your twitter page, you make the point the attacker was taken down immediately? he had no chance whatsoever. it was very quickly contained. how many police we re quickly contained. how many police were there? i saw three that were
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around him immediately, there were more on their way at that time. how we re more on their way at that time. how were you first aware something was going on. we were made aware by the gunshots, they were immediate and they were about 30 metres away. how many were there, sorry? three gunshots immediately and then we knew there was an issue. in terms of how the attacker was brought down, obviously injured, do you know where he was hit? no, i could not see, he was face down on the pavement. how would you describe the scene, was their panic? there was a lot of panic, people were running in all directions and i was at the front of the line and everyone was coming towards me to go inside. so soon after it has happened, how would you
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describe your feelings right now?‘ describe your feelings right now?l little confused, little too close to the action of course and i wanted to get inside to be safe. where are you from? colorado. paris, since last year has been on alert, was it a destination you ever thought you we re destination you ever thought you were worried about? no, not really. but i think we are always a little concerned, no matter where we travel to. looking at the photograph you have posted, how many people inside the cathedral with you? about 200, 300. what are they all doing? sorry, can you repeat that? what are they all doing now? just checking eve ryo ne all doing now? just checking everyone is safe and making sure we are all all right. when people are
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attending an event like this, they do tune in, you were outside and just explain what it is you heard, what happened and where you are now? i was outside, about to get my bag checked and then we had the gunshots andi checked and then we had the gunshots and i turned around and i saw a man on the ground and they got us inside. did you see the attacker on the ground yourself? yes. how would you describe him? man, six feet, blue shirt, blue pants, genes. he had a hat on, he was laying down on the ground. the main police headquarters is right next to notre dame, the police were there very quickly, where they? absolutely. that sense of panic when you hear gunshots, what was going through your mind? very quickly assessing
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the situation and where was the safest place to be, what can you do, people running. even though people we re people running. even though people were running in different directions, people will running from one direction specifically, so we knew which way we needed to go. he was looking after you inside, are the police in there telling you to stay there for safety? yes. you obviously cannot see what is happening outside, but do you get a sense this is an incident that has happened and is now over? yes, they are keeping us updated. as wheeler saying, a busy time for paris, it is a tourist destination for millions every year, how many people do you think were in the area when it happened, there are 200 in the cathedral, but people were sent running everywhere? cathedral, but people were sent running everywhere ?|j
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cathedral, but people were sent running everywhere? i was corrected, there is about 500 in the cathedral. we arejust there is about 500 in the cathedral. we are just hearing the french counterterrorism office are stressing they are treating this as a terrorist incident. when you hear that as a tourist in a city like paris, what do you think?” that as a tourist in a city like paris, what do you think? i think it is part of the norm we see a lot of times, unfortunately as we travel. we just want to travel safe and hope for the best. in terms of the police action, it was swift? it was swift and it was immediate. they took care of it immediately. there was no hesitation whatsoever, no time to feel it was out of control. thank you for giving us your time. we are grateful, thank you very much. if you are just grateful, thank you very much. if you arejustjoining us, there has been an incident outside notre dame
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cathedral. a french police officer, shot and injured a man who attacked him with a hammer outside the cathedral. police have sealed off the area in front of the cathedral. several hundred tourists and others are seeking refuge inside the building as police deal with the aftermath of that attack outside. but as we've hearing, panicked tourists seeing as they gunshots. you can seek confirmation from the police. saying the area has been evacuated and they are dealing with that incident. but it would appear, one attacker has been taken down by police and is injured outside the cathedral. just hearing from hugh
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schofield, who i am hoping to speak to shortly. he said eyewitnesses on french television said a man was lying on the ground surrounded by police. french media reporting he has been wounded in the chest. police authority asking people to stay away from the area and reports say a man wielding a hammer began to attack officers on duty. the paris police headquarters, as i was saying, on the other side of the esplanade from the cathedral, and shots prompted a panic of visitors in front of notre dame, says hugh schofield. but paris, since last year and the terrorist attacks of last year, has been on high alert. police acting fast at this initial report of an attack on a policeman with a hammer. no more details in terms of the condition of the policeman, but the suggestion is, the attacker has been wounded in the
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chest after shots were fired. hugh schofield will be with us shortly foran schofield will be with us shortly for an update and we will bring you the rest on that. let's return to events in london. the third man who carried out the deadly attack on london bridge has been named as 22—year—old youssef zaghba, who was of italian—moroccan descent. it's reported that he'd been stopped by the authorities last year as he tried to travel from italy to syria, and put on a watchlist which would have been share with the british security services. meanwhile, scotland yard defended its decision to downgrade an inquiry two years ago into one of the other attackers, 27—year—old khuram butt. they say there was no evidence at the time to suggest he was planning an attack. 0ur correspondent paul adams reports. london bridge and borough market this morning — rain—lashed tributes and streets still closed off, and more details emerging about those responsible for the carnage. two of the attackers were named yesterday, khuram butt and rachid redouane. but this morning brought a third
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name, youssef zaghba, an italian born in morocco. according to an italian newspaper, he was known to the authorities there, who tipped off british officials about his movements. which raises fresh questions about precisely what the authorities here knew about these dangerous men. according to the press report, zaghba was prevented from travelling to syria last year. did officials at mi5 know this, and if so, what kind of watch list was he on? similar questions have already been asked about khuram butt. he'd even been filmed in a documentary about british islamist extremists. the police knew all about him, but didn't think he represented an imminent threat. these are the black flags of islam. this one is actually the flag of the islamic state... but one of the other faces in the documentary was siddhartha dhar, now a member of so—called islamic state.
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in 2014, under investigation for allegedly encouraging terrorism, he jumped bail and travelled to syria with his wife and children. he's thought to have appeared in several is propaganda videos. given these connections, what more should have been known and done about the london bridge plotters? i have no doubt that they will be looking into, if there were lessons to be learned, what went wrong, did they know about this man, did they act rightly, and i'm sure in due course they'll be letting us know what went on. what i think‘s improperfor me to do, without seeing all the facts, to comment about that, but clearly there are legitimate questions raised, which are not unreasonable by journalists and members of public are asking and i'm asking about. the whole world, one day, my brothers, will be underthe sharia... many of those featured in the documentary were members of the outlawed group al—muhajiroun. one of its cofounders, anjem choudary, was jailed in 2015 for inviting support for a banned organisation — is.
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one of his followers, khuram butt, was known well beyond britishjihadi circles. khuram butt was a member of al—muhajiroun going back some years. i was one of the chief... radicalisers and recruiters for al-qaeda here in the united states from approximately 2007 until my arrest in 2011. i would say that he appeared on our radar rather late but was an active member inside of our communication platform. back at london bridge, the flowers and the questions keep coming. the police have made one fresh arrest, but 12 people detained since saturday have already been released without charge. paul adams, bbc news. our home affairs correspondent daniel sandford is at new scotland yard. lots of questions to be answered? that are under the new question is about youssef zaghba, this 22—year—old italian man of moroccan origin, born in morocco. the italian authorities had stopped him travelling to turkey in march 2016,
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believing he was travelling to syria. the italian authorities say he was put on a watchlist. when he in italy he was there for about ten days and he was being watched by italian intelligence. they didn't feel they had enough evidence to prosecute him, but they insist his name is put on a watchlist which would have been accessible by the uk. 0ne would have been accessible by the uk. one person went further and said they had used informal channels to inform the uk. yet, when scotland ya rd inform the uk. yet, when scotland yard announced his name this morning, youssef zaghba, as being one of the lead to have carried out the attack on london bridge and one of the three men they shot, they said he hadn't been a subject of interest to the security service, mis interest to the security service, m15 orto interest to the security service, m15 or to the counterterrorism police at scotland yard. there is a bit of a question about him as well as the questions about khuram butt as the questions about khuram butt as we were saying as the questions about khuram butt as we were saying yesterday evening. let's go to hugh schofield in paris.
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what is happening? the area in front of notre dame has been completely sealed off, emptied of taurus. we are told there were 900, 1000 visitors stuck inside of notre dame waiting for the all clear so they can leave because police, having sealed off the large esplanade are continuing to search the area in case there is any other suspect device or fugitive person. case there is any other suspect device orfugitive person. it looks unlikely. the incident happened a little more than half an hour ago. a man, apparently wielding a hammer started threatening and all attacking passers—by, visitors, but also it seems, police who were on duty outside the police headquarters, as people who know paris will know, is right across the esplanade from notre dame cathedral.
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it was police on duty outside the complex building, so it was riposted with their service weapons and shot him twice. the man was on the ground. eyewitnesses said the man was on the ground, surrounded by officers and the ambulance workers arriving and taking him away. we don't know if the man is alive or dead, but we do know this is being treated as a terrorist incident because the prosecutors ordered terrorist branch of the prosecutor boz matter of this believes this is terrorist related. this is paris' most popular tourist destination, a lot of people there at the time? yes, after the eiffel tower. it is extremely popular. there is notre
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dame cathedral which draws hundreds and thousands of people every month and thousands of people every month and opposite there is the historic building where the police headquarters is. a place which is a lwa ys headquarters is. a place which is always teeming with visitors and tourists from all over the world, faithful and non—faithful alike. this man apparently chose this man asa this man apparently chose this man as a target, is potentially very significant. the fact it is a christian site, the fact it has the police quarters opposite, the fact it is so popular, so well—known and likely to cause an impact on the news wires, that may prove to be behind the thinking behind this. and ina behind the thinking behind this. and in a city that has been in a state of emergency since 2015? yes, there will have been security people nearby. i don't know how quickly it
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took them to get there, but it was right outside the police headquarters. there is a state of emergency, there are army officers patrolling the streets of paris in groups patrolling the streets of paris in gi’oups now patrolling the streets of paris in grou ps now co nsta ntly, patrolling the streets of paris in groups now constantly, we see them everywhere in theirjeeps and their pick—up trucks. this is the city which feels very much that the terrorist threat is alive. even though the focus has shifted to london and britain in the last couple of months, there is a sense the spotlight has moved away from france. nobody kids themselves into thinking the moment has passed here in france, not at all. hugh schofield, thank you very much with the latest on that attack. we will return to paris a little later. the headlines on bbc news: police in parachute and window man at notre dame cathedral after he tried to attack an officer using a hammer. the area has been sealed off. the third man to carry out the london
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bridge attack is named as 22—year—old moroccan italian youssef zaghba. he was stopped travelling from morocco to syria last year. a minute's silence is held across the uk for the seven people killed and dozens more injured in the attack on saturday night. england are taking on new zealand in their second match of cricket champion's trophy in cardiff. after setting the visitors 311 to win, they took a wicket with the first ball of the innings. southampton have placed a request with the premier league to investigate liverpool over an alleged illegal approach for virgil van dijk, who is keen to move to liverpool. the british and irish lions held a minute ‘s silence today in memory of those who died ahead of their second match in new zealand. i will be back
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with more on those stories at around 16:30 p.m.. questions are continuing to be asked about how the three terrorist slip through the net. the mayor of london has said planned cuts to the size of the metropolitan police course will make it harder to stop terror attacks in the future. after london bridge, the second terror attack to strike this election campaign. security is under scrutiny. who do they trust? question for the conservatives about whether the government had missed red flags. it is an ongoing investigation and we need to let the police and the security service to continue that investigation. but i
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would expect, after they said after the manchester attack, they will look at their processors. asked if she was sorry for police guards under her watch, she didn't apologise, wanting to focus on the task ahead. what the government wa nts to task ahead. what the government wants to do from friday onwards is to look at how this terror threat is evolving, how terrorism is breeding terrorism, the increased tempo of the attack. we have had three horrific attacks in the uk in the last three months. in response to claims cuts have made an impact, and services insist more money has gone into counterterrorism and armed officers. but in the capital, a warning that continuing to pare back budget is unsustainable. under renewed theresa may government, as a consequence, we will have fewer police officers. all the experts tell me, the way we counterterrorism is by fantastic police in the community. members of the community
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of all backgrounds report intelligence to police officers in the community. they pass it on and helped keepers say. fewer police officers means we are in more danger. labour is promising more police and staff for the security services. the argument from the opposition parties, those whosejob it is to protect us, need more resources , it is to protect us, need more resources, not more powers. it is to protect us, need more resources, not more powersm it is to protect us, need more resources, not more powers. it is not that we don't have the ability to track or detain people, it is likely because of cuts made in police and intelligence services over the years, we don't have enough pairs of hands to be able to track people and bring them tojustice. pairs of hands to be able to track people and bring them to justice. we must also open a debate in this country as to whether we routinely arm our police force. particularly in major cities. at the very least, we must double the number of armed police officers as soon as possible. in these final days of the campaign,
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parties are vying for votes, tackling terrorism now tops the agenda, which means they are competing on who can be trusted the most to deal with the threat going forward. in the wake of this latest terror attack, british prime minister theresa may has accused technology firms of not doing enough to remove jihadist propaganda. social media companies are facing growing criticisms but say they are investing significant resources into fighting the spread of extremism. with me is emily taylor, editor of the journal of cyber policy and associate fellow of the think tank chatham house. thank you for coming, and moly. theresa may says enough is enough, something has got to be done, in terms of the internet companies, but the question is what? what is possible? the internet companies already do a lot to monitor and takedown extremist content, extreme pornography, images child abuse.- they only do that when there is a
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complaint, or are they doing it proactively? most of them have a report abuse button, it feels like a machine will go beep and make the decision. but there are people behind that. this is material that machines are not got that. a machine in the supermarket cannot tell what age you in the supermarket cannot tell what age you are in the supermarket cannot tell what age you are when you buy alcohol. you need people to make those judgments. the difficulty, the social media companies are very secretive about what it is they do, how many people are involved and what criteria they use. as a society we are in a situation where we are relying on advertising companies based in silicon valley to mediate human rights globally and that doesn't feel right. aren't we asking them to use common sense and to see that if there is a danger and they see it being propagated on their network, whatever it is is, they should back before anybody else
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needs to? a lot of the most extreme materials will get reported and in no way, you have a network of close to2 no way, you have a network of close to 2 billion people monitoring for you and reporting the content. whether it can be done proactively isa whether it can be done proactively is a question to ask the social media companies, but they very resista nt to media companies, but they very resistant to coming out in the public and explaining what they do and that is one of the problems. end encryption, has been said, can we have a back door for the security services, because it is providing jihadists with a direct methods of communication? unfortunately, back doors don'tjust work communication? unfortunately, back doors don't just work for good people, they work for bad people as well. if you undermine basic security protocols, like encryption, which are relied upon by so many applications and billions of people to have safe online transactions... you me legitimate ones? yes, you
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will undermine the network. the echo chambers, how are they being used? social media companies are primarily advertising companies and they are brilliant at targeting advertising. it is no coincidence that in run—up to an election when political parties are focusing their resources in targeting advertising, they are worried at how powerful it is. we worry about where the middle ground has gone from politics. i think we should be looking at way that like—minded groups are grouped together online. that would include people who are vulnerable to extremism and these sort of messages as well. they are in their own echo chamber and that tends to reinforce your opinions, make you less tolera nt of your opinions, make you less tolerant of other opinions. emily taylor, thank you very much. let's return to the election campaign. jeremy corbyn is talking now.
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jeremy corbyn is talking nowm jeremy corbyn is talking now. it is a question of the role government and local authorities play in investment. we will establish a national investment bank. it will be regionally based for the whole country, so there will be proper investment in transport, infrastructure, railway links as well as broadband and better road links, but also preparing us to invest in new and high technology. we have great strength and great abilities in this country, but a lot of small companies cannot grow and develop because nobody will lend them the money to grow. so we will be investing in those companies and investing in that infrastructure. so we have a sustainable, growing economy. as we leave the european union, we need access to the european market to protectjobs here and everywhere else in the country.
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these things do require a thought out process. and i have indicated some of the areas we will do things that will obviously cost more money. i understand and accept that. we have to recognise that since 2008, 2009 when the financial crisis took place, a lot of people have suffered. a lot of people have seen, in various parts of the country, schools are underfunded, overcrowded hospitals, libraries closed and a general malaise in public provision. those with disabilities have seen their benefits frozen or taken away from them. there has been unnecessary created. at the other end of the scale, those at the top end of the scale, those at the top end have not suffered at all. there isa end have not suffered at all. there is a disproportionate price paid for austerity by the poorest and at the same time, the gap between the wealthiest and the poorest in our
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society, is growing ever wider. and so, our manifesto is a plan, a plan which will improve the lot of the majority of the population, but it will also raise taxes for the top end. it will raise taxes on corporations up to 26%, which is less tha n corporations up to 26%, which is less than it was in 2010 and there will be some other taxes, but 95% of the population will pay no more in tax, vat or national insurance. this isa tax, vat or national insurance. this is a programme to make this country fairerand is a programme to make this country fairer and morejust is a programme to make this country fairer and more just place. is a programme to make this country fairer and morejust place. the programme to properly fund our public services and a programme that does not set young against old, that brings people together on the idea that communities together achieve the most. look at the response... look at the response in london and in manchester in response to those horrific terrorist attacks. you
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don't turn on each other, you turned towards each other and bring people together in unity, as communities. and, at this election is fundamentally a choice. anotherfive yea rs of fundamentally a choice. anotherfive years of a choice. another five yea rs of years of a choice. another five years of conservative government... i take that is no. thank you very much, i knewi i take that is no. thank you very much, i knew i could rely on telford. what it will do is continue the underfunding of our nhs, continue the crisis in our schools, continue the crisis in our schools, continue the crisis in our schools, continue the crisis in and continue the unfair treatment of the majority of the population whilst at the same time, handing more tax giveaways to those at the top end. i think that is an acceptable. this election is about a choice. zaghba seven weeks ago i did my
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first event in birmingham. people said, it is very obvious what the result is going to be? really. seven weeks on, seven weeks on, thousands of people have come towards the labour party. thousands havejoined the labour party. cheering and applause and last friday something remarkable happened. there was the biggest ever day of donations, funds to the labour party there has ever been and the average size of the donation was £19. £19. so, none of those cheques came from the cayman islands, the british virgin islands or anywhere else! they were people, just like you and me, donating a bit to help this campaign and i thank everyone of them from the bottom of my heart for making that donation, but this election is about hope versus the alternativement hope that our young people will get the education they need. hope that we will be prepared to invest in our communities and
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hope that we will invest in our cultural activities as well, properly fund music, properly fund theatre and arts because life isn't just about the more difficult things in life. it's also about bringing communities together. governments can't legislate for communities, they can only do that themselves. but if you provide the basis of that security, of knowing there is health, there is education, there is security in housing and there is a determination to invest in the future for all of us then people are more optimistic and they come together. following the campaign is our correspondent dan johnson and following the campaign is our correspondent danjohnson and not much time left? indeed, yes. time is running out forjeremy corbyn, but he's playing to a big crowd here. a crowd that stood up for his speech. no one can deny he pulled in a lot
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of people at these campaign rallies. there is probably 1,000 people here. his message is being warmly received. talking about how he wants to fund the nhs and to cut class sizes, but the challenge is to get the message beyond the people who will come to an event like a rally in telford to try and make that message hit home with the wider electorate and to convince them that he can afford to implement the policies that are in the manifesto, the pollees have been largely warmly received, but the conservatives say it is not affordable, the numbers don't add up. labour says, well the conservatives don't even have many numbers in their manifesto. they think that they've got a defined plan for government and they say they have done the maths, they can afford it, but not much time left for them to get their message across and telford is the sort of constituency thatjeremy corbyn needs to be winning if he has got any chance of getting in government. danjohnson any chance of getting in government. dan johnson there. the former foreign secretary, and
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chair of the intelligence and security committee sir malcolm rifkind is in our westminster studio. good afternoon to you. we're not fully aware of what happened in paris, but it does, it is being treated as a terrorist incident. it is that word terror, that word fear. what appears to be emerging from paris is not that different from what we have experienced and what is significant compared to the 9/11 attacks on the twin towers which is attacks on the twin towers which is a very sophisticated terrorist attack involving hijacking aircraft, driving them into the pentagon and so forth, what we're getting now is two things. first of all, very soft targets. just ordinary people going about their business being attacked at random and secondly, the people
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responsible having very crude weapons. a van. a knife. something any person can pick up. now, they're using such crude and simplistic methods, not because that's what they wish, but because they have now been denied access to the more dramatic and sophisticated terrorist attacks. that's the way it looks and that seems to be what is happening. still very, very serious, but it's a different kind of threat. and less of that word, "plot" which is what mi5 of that word, "plot" which is what m15 and what the police are saying was the reason that those responsible were not being monitored in the way some are calling for them to have been because how do you predict something like this? to have been because how do you predict something like this7m to have been because how do you predict something like this? it is not that there is a plot. what happens is whenever the intelligence agencies receive some information from a member of the public or someone from a member of the public or someone who tells them they are disturbed by what they are hearing from a particular individual that
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quy from a particular individual that guy goes on to the radar screen of mi5, but guy goes on to the radar screen of m15, but they need to know whether there is any evidence available that would justify him being arrested or brought in for questioning or something of that kind. so you really have several groups of people on their radar screen. the people who are ready known to be dangerous guys. these are the people who are kept under surveillance and who are watched and whose e—mails are intercepted. there is a second group who are clearly sympathetic to them, but may not be planning to be involved in terrorist attacks and there is a larger group running into thousands of people who have occasionally said something in a mosque or in a family gathering or amongst some friends which suggests that they are being radicalised. they then go from that stage, but they cannot get the authority to intercept someone, watch their e—mails unless there is some evidence that suggests there are some sort of bad guy planning something bad. what group does
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someone something bad. what group does someone unfurling annist flag in the middle of regent's park for a television documentary, what group do they fall? in myjudgment, i have not been in m15, but through my work on the intelligence and security committee, i'm pretty confident in saying m15 would immediately put that guy on their radar screenment they would say this is somebody we need to look at. find out who he is, what his background is, who he has been mixing with, who he has been in contact with, is hejust been mixing with, who he has been in contact with, is he just somebody who is sympathetic, naive, idealistic or somebody who could be positively dangerous? they will try and do that. that does not give them the legal right, and neither the public nor parliament have given our intelligence agencies the right simply to intercept anyone's e—mail because that's what they want to do. they have to get authority from the home secretary and that authority can only be given under the law if there is some preliminary good convincing reason why this chap
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needs to be intercepted in this way. is this the moment then that the law needs to be looked at once again? i'm not sure that that would take you very much further. i think there are two big problems that i think are two big problems that i think are the real priorities at this particular moment in time. the first is that all terrorists, almost without exception, are people who are thinking of being terrorists, use the internet in order to first of all get on to one of these terror websites, that's been put on the web by al-qaeda or by isis and get information on bombs or weapons or things of that kind and secondly, they sometimes try to make contact and succeed in making contact with individuals whom they don't know who are probably living in pakistan or the middle east and when we examined the middle east and when we examined the lee rigby case, the british soldier who was attacked using a vehicle, motor vehicle and then killed, it was subsequently discovered that two months before he
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was murdered, one of the murderers was murdered, one of the murderers was in contact through the internet, through facebook, with an extremist in yemen discussing how you kill a british soldier. now, the authorities couldn't get access to that kind of information at the time. facebook is an american—based company. it's answerable to the united states law, but it is not obliged to share information with the british authorities. how would you approach that? if you we re how would you approach that? if you were foreign secretary now, what would you do? i don't want to take anything away police on saturday night because a remarkable response and first responders, but you can understand why people are now seeing details emerge of the killers and are saying, "well, i would have been suspicious. why weren't they?" well, the answer is almost certainly, almost certainly what has happened immediately after this event, m15, would have had their own immediate internal inquiry. the head of m15
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would have said "did we know any of these individuals? what did we know about them ? " these individuals? what did we know about them?" m15 would have discovered that at least one of them was already known to them then m15 would say well, what did we know about this guy? and what did we do at the time when we got information? now if the nhs was simply that he had been doing things that made him sound sympathetic to isis or to acts of terrorism that wouldn't, would have made them worried, but there are probably thousands of people in this country who come into that category who are not themselves terrorists, but who have sympathy or try to excuse acts of terrorism. so, you need to go beyond that before you need to go beyond that before you can take somebody in and have them arrested or locked up. the law just does to the permit that. the inevitable blame game gets under way after events like this when someone is seen not to have spotted something that they should have
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done. what would you be saying if you had the boss of m15, the boss of scotla nd you had the boss of m15, the boss of scotland yard in front of you now? well, what we did and i'm sure the intelligence and security committee still does, what we did is looked into these cases in very deep detail. sometimes you find there was incompetence. sometimes somebody just missed a trick, there was something staring them in the face and they simply through lack of experience or poor judgment and they simply through lack of experience or poorjudgment didn't do that. it has happened. it has been known, but much more often you have a situation, i can think of a number of examples where the intelligence agencies, because of suspicion, did get evidence which they took to the home secretary, got permission to intercept e—mails or to listen to voicemails or keep somebody under surveillance. now, you get that permission to do that for a #2350u weeks, sometimes two or three months. if at the end of that period, nothing has come up because some of these guys are security conscious, they know that their
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e—mails might be intercepted, if nothing has come up over that period of time, you can'tjust go back and say, "can we have another six months, please?" say, "can we have another six months, please? " the say, "can we have another six months, please?" the law does not permit that. parliament does not permit that. parliament does not permit that. parliament does not permit that. sometimes they have to say, we have had these guys under surveillance, there is no evidence that they are plotting a terrorist attack. it doesn't mean they forget about them. they keep them in their files and if any new information ever appears in any form they go back to it as if it was square one. so there is a system, that doesn't mean it always works, i'm not saying they always get it right nor would they always get it right nor would they claim that, but it's wrong to say that information that they receive is simply sort of put in a file and nobody ever does anything about it. that is almost unheard of. sir malcolm rifkind, thank you very much for your time this afternoon. thank you very much. let's get more now on that incident at the cathedral of notre—dame in paris, where french police say they have shot a man after he tried to attack an officer using a hammer. visitors to the cathedral were told to stay inside. 0ne
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visitors to the cathedral were told to stay inside. one of them captured the announcement on his phone. a man has attacked a policeman with a hammerand has a man has attacked a policeman with a hammer and has been shot down. we don't know if he is still alive or not. meanwhile, it is the safest place to stay here until the police operation is over and thenle be able to be out. i hope you stay patient. if there is any need... inaudible just stay calm. it's a safe place. hundreds of people went into the cathedral to seek refuge. a little earlier i spoke to kellyn potvin—gorman. she was inside the cathedral when she spoke to us and described what she saw. i was getting my bag checked. i was
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about to come inside and heard the noise, the gunshots and turned around and saw the assailant on the ground where they had shot him. we are talking about paris' most popular tourist destination that clearly lots of people were around at the time? yes. there were tonnes of people running in all directions. then we were brought inside at that time. just looking at your twitter page and you make the point that the attacker was taken down immediately? immediately. he had no chance whatsoever. it was very quickly contained. how many police were there? i saw three. that were around him immediately. there were more on the way at that time. and what happened? how were you first aware that something was going on? we were made aware by the gunshots. the gunshots were immediate and very loud. they were about 30 meters away. how many were there, sorry?
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there were three gunshots immediately and we knew there was an issue. and in terms of the attacker was brought down, obviously injured, but do you know where he was hit? no, i could not see. he was face down on the pavement. and how would you describe the scene around? was there panic? there was a lot of panic. people were running out in all directions. as i said i was in the front of the line and everyone was coming towards me to go inside notre dame. so soon after it has happened, how would you describe your feelings right now?l happened, how would you describe your feelings right now? a little confused. a little too close to the action and wanting to get inside where i could be safe. where are you from? colorado. and paris obviously, since last year, has been on alert after terrorist attacks there. was
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ita after terrorist attacks there. was it a destination that you ever thought you were worried about? no, not really, but i think we're always a little concerned no matter where we travel to. a little concerned no matter where we travelto. i'mjust a little concerned no matter where we travel to. i'm just looking at that photograph you posted. how many people are inside the cathedral with you? about 200, 300. and what are they all doing? i'm sorry, can you repeat that? what are they all doing right now? they're just checking us and making sure that we're safe and everything is all right. so that was an eyewitness who sought refuge in the cathedral. the officer who was attacked slightly injuredment one of his colleagues responded by shooting his attacker and wounding him. motive is not known according to a police source, but it is being investigated by the a bty but it is being investigated by the abty terror prosecutor, we will bring you more on paris as we get it. in a moment a look at how
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the financial markets in europe closed the day, but first the headlines on bbc news: police in paris shoot and wound a man at notre dame cathedral, after he tried to attack an officer using a hammer. the area has been sealed off. the third man to carry out the london bridge attack is named as 22—year—old moroccan—italian youssef zaghba. he was stopped from travelling to syria from italy last year. a minute's silence is held across the uk for the seven people who were killed and the dozens more injured in the attack on saturday night. hello. i'm rachel horne. now a look at how the markets in europe have ended the trading session. the ftse and the cac have been falling across europe waiting for the outcome of thursday's general election and anticipating a rise in
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us interest rates which many think will be announced next week. thursday is also the day when the european central bank the ecb will announce its latest interest rate decision. so lots of information for the markets to digest. we will start with the ftse. shares in a0. they fell sharply today. down 10% after the firm warned that growth at its uk business was expected to show significantly in the first quarter of 2017. they say the uk market has been affected by weaker consumer confidence after the brexit vote, a pick up in inflation and a slowdown in the housing market. these warning signals have been reflected. like for like retail sales fell by 0.4% in may, down from 0.5% growth last year. in may, down from 0.5% growth last yea r. ba rclayca rd said in may, down from 0.5% growth last year. barclaycard said that the level of consumer confidence in the uk was at its lowest level for two
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yea rs uk was at its lowest level for two years and one of our main stories today has been rbs. royal bank of scotla nd today has been rbs. royal bank of scotland have reached a £200 million settle m e nt scotland have reached a £200 million settlement with investors who say they were duped into handing £12 billion to the bank during the financial crisis. the rbs shareholders action group voted to accept an 82 pence per share offer. they paid between 200 and 230 pence per share during fund—raising in 2008. that settlement means that the disgraced former chief executive fred goodwin will not appear in court. that's where we're going to start. richard, thank you for speaking to us richard, thank you for speaking to us this afternoon. that rbs share price affected by that headline today. it is down almost 3%, but this settlement isn't the end of t rbs are involved in a number of legal disputes. they are more than # # 70% owned by the uk taxpayer. how and when do you think this bank can
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return to normality? this is another step ina return to normality? this is another step in a long—term process of trying to rehabilitate the bank. this goes back to 2008. it has taken a long time to get to this stage, but it is a step closer to being resolved now. i think the key thing that you mentioned there is that the bank is still about 70% owned by the uk government and really until that state shareholding is cleared it won't be soon as an ordinary bank or an ordinary investment and if we contrast that with what we have seen at lloyds, lloyds was in a similar position post the financial crisis, but they have managed to clear the government shareholder so they are ina much government shareholder so they are in a much more normal position of being an ordinary listed uk company. let's talk about a0 world, their full year results show they made a profit in the uk, but made losses in europe and they warned about future uk trading. what's the outlook for the company? well, this highlights a theme that also relates to what you
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we re theme that also relates to what you were mentioning about retail sales. pa rt were mentioning about retail sales. part of the problem that a0 world are having if we think about the electrical goods in our homes, a lot are made overseas. and that means that as sterling has fallen post the brexit vote, imported goods have become more expensive and actually it has become harderfor become more expensive and actually it has become harder for people to afford them. if that's happening at the same time their incomes have been squeezed then they maybe deferring those purchases and it is making it more difficult for someone like a0 to sell their products. you mentioned there that story of a0, it does link into the retail figures showing that spending is slowing. do you think that's a blip or that's a trend that we will continue to see more of? well, i think it is not entirely surprising what we have seen entirely surprising what we have seen really. i think the thing that's important about the numbers that's important about the numbers that we have seen, if we look at the value of retail sales in may 2017 compared to 2016 in the same month
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the value is up very slightly, but the value is up very slightly, but theissue the value is up very slightly, but the issue is, actually it's not that we're buying more goods, we're buying fewer things, but we're paying more for them so there is inflation in the system and a lot of that inflation has been driven by the fall in sterling. the other dimamic there as well is that actually things that we don't have much discretion about whether we buy them or not, food and petrol have gone up markedly, fuel in garages is up gone up markedly, fuel in garages is up16% gone up markedly, fuel in garages is up 16% year—on—year and we don't really have a great deal of discretion as to whether we buy those. so as people are having their incomes squeezed, they are cutting back on things that they don't have to buy and we have seen evidence of it elsewhere, people like next and people like m&s suggesting that actually there is less spending going on on things like food. thank you very much for your time this afternoon. in the states stock markets are
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still trading. stocks in the states, the dow, it is down. the s and p was down, the nasdaq, just like in europe, markets in the states, they're edgy, they're waiting for they're edgy, they're waiting for the uk's general election results andi the uk's general election results and i mentioned the european certain tral bank, it's giving information on whether it will raise interest rates on thursday. the former fbi directorjohn mccain comby is set to tv before congress. the dollar is at its wea kest tv before congress. the dollar is at its weakest against sterling since president trump was elected back in november. you can see there, your pound will get you just shy of $129. we will keep an eye on those prices. that's it from me. there is a round—up of all the other top business stories on our website — bbc.co.uk/business how much of the polls have changed
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and which marginal seats will be the ones that decide the battle grounds. well, do come into our election studio, and let me show you first the result in percentages of the last general election. so, here we go. 2015 it was, and you can see the conservatives winning on 38%. if they get the same percentage this time, they will have won again. labour on 31 — they could improve from that, gain seats, and still not win in 2017. the liberal democrats, way down on 8%, and ukip on 13%. awful lot of ukip voters there. we'll come back to that injust a moment. if we go back a year, before theresa may called the general election, this is the story. so, the conservatives dominant in the polls and dominant for the whole year, all the way through, leading labour by quite some distance, as you can see. you see why theresa may called the election — 43% to 27%. but the story changes if we look at the polls since the calling of that general election. so, week one to week six, here we go. all the way through we go, have a look at what happens to this conservative lead,
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see the way it narrows, see the wayjeremy corbyn takes the conservatives to within 8%, according to the polls. and by the way, look at ukip and the lib dems — how far down they are here. the fascinating question is, if there were millions of ukip voters last time, and they've been dislodged, which parties have they gone to now? really interesting. 0k. the map tells the story of the election result in 2015. here it is — 650 parliamentary constituencies, each one an individual battle between parties. so, i'll show you the conservatives first, in blue. and look at the way they wash over england, all the way down the south—west, devon and cornwall, for example. different story for labour, though, their seats much more densely packed in the cities. so, smaller seats, lots of people in them. manchester, liverpool, birmingham, newcastle, sheffield, leeds and so on. they serve labour very well indeed. the liberal democrats had a terrible time in 2015, with only eight seats.
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they will be looking to improve — disastrous if they don't. and the snp in scotland had the night of their lives. there they are bathing scotland in yellow, with 56 out of 59 seats. let's not forget the other parties, the welsh nationalists, the greens, the parties in northern ireland. but in the end, this election surely comes down to what are called the marginal seats — the ones that were closest last time. here are the top 120 marginals. now, these are the seats that labour need to win. if the conservatives can hold onto the blue ones here, theresa may is almost certainly back in number10. jeremy vine there with his foot in the bristol channel! now the weather with louise lear. it has been more like an autumn day and the strongest of the winds have been gusting in excess of 50mph across much of england and wales. not only that, but we have seen some
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heavy rain as well. it's miserable across much of scotland and that rain will linger through the evening and overnight across much of eastern scotland. not much improvement. this has been the story today. the bulk of the wet weather drifting north and east. we have had sharp showers north and east, but the heaviest and persistent rain continues across scotland. we could see 100 millimetres, four inches of rain before the low drifts off into the north sea tomorrow. for the rush hour, there will be a lot of heavy rain through scotlandment blustery, but not the strongest of the winds. those are probably likely to continue to be through wales and northern england. a scattering of showers here for the evening rush hour, but some of the showers could be heavy with hail and thunder. but gusts of wind still potentially 40 to 50mph. these are going to be the temperatures then to close out our day. 12 or 13 celsius to the north. disappointing really. 18
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celsius a maximum today that we have seen celsius a maximum today that we have seen and then the strongest of the gusts of winds will start to ease away through this evening. we still keep the potential for that rain to clear on to the north—east of england and eastern scotland. behind it drier conditions to follow on and not a cold night, eight to 11 celsius. so we start off tomorrow with that rain lingering and still some of it quite heavy across north—east scotland, but the isobars will open up which indicates that the winds are going to fall light tomorrow and we will see a window of fine weather, drier and sunnier for many of us and it will be promising. 0nce many of us and it will be promising. once we have got rid of the heavy rain across the north—east, elsewhere it is a quieter story. the winds in the north—east of scotland are coming from a chilly direction and will make it feel fresher. in the south east we could see highs of 20 celsius. still just the south east we could see highs of 20 celsius. stilljust a little down on where we should be for the time of year and you can see wet and windy weather is set to arrive across the far south—west. it will
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move northwards on thursday. and it will grind to a halt through northern ireland and southern scotland. showers following on behind. highs again of around ten to 19 celsius. more from me coming up in halfan 19 celsius. more from me coming up in half an hour's time. today at 5. police name the third london bridge attacker, he was an italian national of moroccan descent. 22 year—old youssef zaghba was living in east london, italian media say british authorities had been alerted —— after he'd tried to travel to syria last year. this morning at 11 a minute's silence observed across the uk —— for the 7 people who were killed in the attack and dozens who were injured. an australian nurse kirsty boden —— is the 3rd victim to be named —— she was killed as she ran to help others during the attack. another australian —— 21 year—old sara zelenak —— has been missing since saturday —— her aunt says they're fearing the worst.
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she's one of those people who doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs, doesn't do anything wrong.

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