tv Dateline London BBC News June 10, 2017 4:30pm-5:01pm BST
what start speculating so soon as to what we could and should do differently. that will take time, but there are positives that we can take from the result, even though, obviously, the most important metric, the number of mps, wasa most important metric, the number of mps, was a disappointment. was the social care issue one that came up for you out on the doorstep campaigning? it is something that nick timothy has mentioned in his resignation statement. was that problematic for you to explain? yes. i think that every candidate that you speak to will say that did come up that you speak to will say that did come up as an issue. that you speak to will say that did come up as an issue. there was a significant degree of confusion i think. the wording of the manifesto could have been tighter. i think the explanation of the manifesto could have been interpreted better. we have been interpreted better. we have to take responsibility for the
management of that part of the ma nifesto. james cleverley, we have to leave it there. thank you forjoining us. we'll keep you up—to—date with any developments here at westminster throughout the day. in the next half hour, let us hearforeign correspondents working in london, giving their verdict. let us find out how they are explaining this british general election to their overseas readers and listeners. it is of course our latest edition of dateline london with sean ley. thirds was supposed to be may's day
but strengthening her hand in winning the general election. instead she was left calling out may day to a party in northern ireland asking it to keep her conservative party in power after her parliamentary majority evaporated. as forjeremy corbyn, he lost the election but won plaudits for his campaign and inspired a new generation of young voters. with me to discuss where this leaves british politics and the imminent negotiations to get out of europe, biographer and long—standing author to paper. welcome to you all. where did it go wrong? it was the worst campaign that i have ever seen, having lived in this country
for 50 years. absolutely appalling. the more interesting phenomenon, because that one has been discussed endlessly, is the consequences for the labour party, which at least three quarters of its mps detestjeremy corbyn or his policies at any rate and are stuck with him for the indefinite future as leader. must be yvette cooper, who really thought that her part of the party was going to reclaim its birth right. what happens now with the tories is almost impossible to call. there are a lot of rumours that theresa may is going to be removed over the summer. i think that is actually quite likely, even though most of my conservative contacts, senior tories that i have spoken to, do not think that would be a good deal idea. they think they need to get through with a pretence of stability and it would just cause more uncertainty and doubt if she was to be replaced. the trouble is, it is stability without strength. stability without credibility.
going into the brexit negotiations with a leader who has been so register and has lost all credibility is very serious. what the remain faction, who have turned this into a second referendum on the eu and voted tactically to destabilise her, have succeeded in doing is creating the conditions for the worst possible deal that britain can get in the eu negotiations, and as a result, they have devastated the future of all those young people who are now voting so enthusiastically for corbyn because the economic future looks bleak. owenjones, i want to pick up on this question of young people. i was in leeds and in one constituency alone they had registered 13,000 new voters. there is a real sense that this idea that the young do not vote and are not motivated was blown apart by this election. i suppose the question is what happens to that now and how sustainable is it that it can still be inspired. i think the enthusiasm of those
young people cannot be understated. what we have had for the last few years is when politics intrudes in their lives it is not good. the scrapping of the education maintenance allowance, the small amount of money for those working class and aspirational children who stayed on at school. the scrapping of youth services across the country. a housing service that disproportionately affect them. the lack of secure jobs. i could go on. young people over the last few years have had a hammering. and the calculation by politicians over and over again is that we can do what we want when it comes to people because they are never going to vote. they will never bite back. what we saw this week was the young people fighting back and voting for a party which had an inspiring vision for them and for millions of people across the country, with policies that have been produced and vilified and ignored
by most of the media in this country, that by asking those at the top of society to pay a bit more money to invest in our services, in education, to get rid of student debt. and yet we still have a conservative government. let's be clear about what happened. labour had the biggest increase in its share of the vote, not since tony blair in 1997, since clement attlee. there was the small issue of world war ii at the time. this time round, labour started from a very low base. its achievement, where kensington in london is now a hotbed of socialism. canterbury, which has been a conservative seat since the 19th century. but why dismiss people based on their age? it is notjust young voters. obviously, there are 40 million people under 25. the problem is that a win is right. 40% of the vote is a huge chunk. the problem is under the first past the post system, that does not necessarily transfer into seats. that is why there is no ukip around any more.
the conservatives got a higher proportion than that. they got a higher proportion than margaret thatcher, which won her famous landslide. so the smaller parties collapsed, this is why this has happened. i really want to make a point about the vision. i think this is a repudiation clearly of anything it is of the politics of focus group and message control and public relations and advertising slogans. this is finally a return to ideological politics, which is probably a healthy thing. but the cynicism of that period, when every political message had to be manipulated and controlled and it was all about the manipulation of public opinion, that was sickening. and i think now we really have seen a repudiation of that. and was that what the conservatives were guilty of? yes, i am afraid so.
thomas, you have been watching elections in this country for a very long time. what did you make of it? well, i think i agree with the janet that this was the worst i have seen and it is more at the astonishing because when theresa may became prime minister, when she was put in that position, she went outside and give her famous speech which sounded like a great empathy for the working people and so forth. i said, hey, this is exactly what we need to hear. she needs to address yourself to the woefully inadequate situation domestically, and then afterwards she ran away and it was nothing but brexit. i think she totally left the agenda of what is wrong with britain to the hands ofjeremy corbyn and that gave him an absolute leeds in people's mind. his vision is to raise more money and spend more money. but it destroys the jobs ofjust the people you are in sympathy with.
the increasing corporation tax. it is notjust the huge corporations that everybody hates, but the little companies that makejobs. what labour is arguing for is to go back to the level of corporation tax that we had in 2011. and to go to the level of the us, which is not known as a hotbed of socialism, i can tell you that. the tories started with everything stacked in their favour. no prime minister has had that much political traction. she had twice the support according to the polls of labour, a much higher opinion rating. she had the backing tory press, whose role in this election was despicable, to smear labour, and the people rejected it, which i think is worth noting. but notjust that. it is that point and it makes about the popular vote. the ukip vote was always going to inflate the tory vote, because it collapsed. but what we saw in this election, this is what i think is so interesting, the most radical
labour leader in history got 40% of the vote in 2017, even though all the odds were stacked against him, and what i think that shows, and i think we are now at a turning point which we have seen in other countries. we have seen bernie sanders in the us and new parties in spain. in the 1970s, the post—war consensus of social democracy crumbled and collapsed. i think we are seeing that consensus, that margaret thatcher established in 1979, is beginning to crumble and i think there is every chance next few years of a labour government coming to power which will transform this country in just the way margaret thatcher and clement attlee before it transformed britain. what this election contest reminded me of was the spirit of michael foot, and he was the most radical leader, not jeremy corbyn, was revived, and without the countervailing voice of margaret thatcher. nobody was doing the critique. nobody was saying what is wrong with this position. so apart from attacking him personally. his history was too extreme in their view. they did not take on
the argument at all. let's talk about the question of where this takes us. the next question is a deal, some sort of arrangement with the democratic unionist party in northern ireland. a lot of people watching in this country and around the world won't really know very much about the dup. the only thing they might remember is ian paisleyjunior. as the founder of the dup. but it is notjust the party of protest any more. it is the party that will be in government. yes, it started off as a protest movement in the early 70s. and it was based around the free presbyterian church, which ian paisley founded and also the party. it is deeply conservative. and as we have seen with what ruth davidson is saying in scotland's is they are socially conservative, there will be
issues around marriage equality, abortion as well. but if you put those to one side for a moment, because they are the ones making the headlines, the single most important thing for the dup is the maintenance of the union with britain. they are brexiteers but they want a soft border because a lot of their trade, particularly in food and agriculture, that kind of thing, goes north and south across the border. so they are in this strange position where they are strong brexiteers, but they want the open border. there is one thing to remember about them as well. there was a suggestion of having a special status for northern ireland, which sinn fein actually pushed quite strongly. the british government have ruled that out. the irish government certainly
haven't argued for it either. it is unlikely to happen. but the reason the dup will put this on their list of asks, the special status being one foot in the single market, one foot out, is because most of their trade is actually with the rest of the uk. we do need to be clear. the british people need to understand what the situation is they're about to face. a prime minister with no authority whatsoever, a conservative party humiliated and now facing huge division, is now going to be held over the barrel by the most extreme party in the house of commons. the democratic unionist party, which lets just be very clear, we talk about social conservatives, it is anti—lgbt rights, anti—woman's rights, they oppose the right of women to choose, and equally they are
backed by loyalist terrorists. they are now going to be... have a huge influence. just to clarify that, they say they are backed by them, but they have no formal link. they are enthusiastically supported by loyalist paramilitaries. that is just an objective fact. you can see the loyalist murals all over belfast. what this does is threaten the northern ireland peace process, would you have one sector of a party which now has disproportionate influence over the westminster government. we have just had ruth davidson assuring us from theresa may that this will not imperil lgbt rights, but the one thing we know about theresa may is that you cannot trust a single thing she says because the one thing she has done is consistently u—turn. it is very worrying when you have a political party which is sore extreme on birdie—mac and climate change and in terms
of the northern ireland political process. from your point of view as a corbyn supporter, i would not want too much about terrorists and i would also not go on too much about social prejudices. the people who refer to me as the zionist duejanet daley every time i attackjeremy corbyn is not a pretty picture. there is left wing bigotry and there is right—wing bigotry. do you want to pick up on this question about whether it will be extremist in its approach. a lot of the things we are talking about our deferred issues. they have a veto on the issue of marriage equality and so on. there are 18 westminster seats in northern ireland. the dup won ten of them this time around. i mean, you talk about democracy. that is democracy. they got elected.
i don't see what the issue is there. they are as entitled as any other party sitting in the house of commons to form any kind of alliance they choose. and i'd say? i am entitled obviously and those of us who are horrified by the prospect of an electoral alliance, a parliamentary government being formed with the support of that party, had every right to speak out. that party opposes the basic civil rights of me as a gay man. it would be absurd if i did not express that. i am not suggesting you shouldn't. of course, the dup can do what they want but british citizens have every right to speak out. they are the largest single party in northern ireland. let's hear from thomas. i know their position and they are not very attractive at all. but they are not going to be influential in informing of social policy in great britain as a whole. there is not equal marriage
in northern ireland. but that will not impinge on the legislation. one of the assurances ruth davidson was trying to get from the prime minister was that this would not impede her supporting for example the extension of lgbt rights in northern ireland. but in any case, as i have said. the dup or not going into this alliance to start rolling back equal marriage in scotland or england. the dup are going into this alliance to ensure that, for example, farmers in northern ireland, who will be very damaged by brexit, suddenly get more money from the uk treasury to make up for that. this is about money, jobs, livelihoods. when you talk about the dup social agenda, one of the dangers... you are talking about their social agenda. this is not about the social agenda.
it is about the economic agenda. if we had a vote on abortion in the house of commons, then obviously there are implications. that is a free vote. we know they are a party which opposes birdie—mac and that we know they are a party which opposes lgbt that will have a huge influence over government. people watching will wonder why brexit is such an important issue in the coming months that sinn fein has done so well in elections that it is happy to sit in the northern ireland power—sharing agreement, why its mps will not take their seats, even in this election were actually they could have quite a lot of influence at westminster at a time when that could affect things. it is simply because sinn fein as a republican party have a long—standing abstention is policy. it is not something i understand or necessarily agree with. gerry adams was asked several times
in the last couple of days, now you have increased your representation, why, and he has ruled it out. 0n sinn fein, i think one thing is significant. there is no power—sharing executive and there has not been for some time in northern ireland. it broke down for reasons we do not need to go into right now. the british government in whatever talk school in whatever talks go on now after the election. they were suspended during the election. it is supposed to be an almost broke. this alliance with the dup will make that a little more difficult in any future talks with the british government sort of refereeing whoever the secretary of state for northern ireland maybe. in the middle. while the dup are in an alliance, even at a loose electoral alliance. that is the biggest paradox in my eyes. people who are imported there will now be part of the government. and it will make it more difficult to re—establish power—sharing in northern ireland,
which is important or northern ireland right now. that is an interesting point you made about the economic agenda and the concerns about jobs and employment and so on because that is something that was almost completely missing from this discussion and one of the reasons why i really despise corbyn and labour as an next lefty myself is that it is now a completely and labour as an ex—lefty myself is that it is now a completely bourgeois phenomenon. this is now a monopoly, monopolised by urban professionals and middle—class university students, and there has been scarcely a word said about the tragedy, the post—industrial tragedy, of working class communities in this country. it is now dead, that kind of life, a community built around a local industry, steelworks or manufacturing or coal mining. that is gone. we have lost a generation. and those are the truly forgotten people and nobody on either side of the fence and it is particularly culpable on labour's part has had
a word to say about this. there is no easy solution, but they might have had something to say to the old industrial proletariat. i think that is a very interesting point. 0bviously, 40% of the publishing voted for labour over that and are not middle—class professionals and university students. this will not work unless i can say... because when you speak i do not interrupted. i will try to speak and then you can come back and then we will have a discussion. what we saw in many ex—industrial areas of britain is those who previously voted for ukip did not just vote for the conservatives as predicted but also voted for the labour party but also broke for the labour party as well and that includes many of those ex—industrial workers. what labour have argued in this election is for a genuine living wage to be introduced. if you haven't got a job! there we go again. 0n the basis that most people in poverty are in work.
and the second thing is an active industrial strategy, learning from countries such as germany, which haven't had the approach of letting the market decide and industries will disappear and then something else will rise, but instead have intervened, for example supporting local jobs. equally, a house—building programme, which labour have committed to, will also create huge numbers ofjobs in construction. you are right to raise that. the tories have nothing to say on that. how is it that jeremy corbyn can ask theresa may to stand aside so he can form a government? he lost the election. the figures simply don't add up. unless you want your dup, who you like so much, tojoin him. i don't like the dup. how is jeremy corbyn going to form a government without the dup? i think the odds are that the labour government... i think the odds of a the labour government...
who do i speak to you? there are two people here. i can only respond to one point at a time. i think what labour are doing is a very clever and canny political ploy to expose the fact that theresa may humiliatingly lost this election and now has a coalition of chaos. jeremy corbyn lost this election. what i think will happen... i want to bring in thomas to talk about the other issue, which is the brexit negotiations. does this result in any way change the landscape models those in positions? well, i wonder what the will of the people really is? theresa may keeps quoting the will of the people and someone to write a novel about 50 shades of brexit. 50 is enough. and so in a sense, we have to wait and see. we cannot legislate about what is going to happen. we cannot speculate.
we have to wait for the negotiations. will they be pleased are disappointed with or disappointed with the outcome, do you think? i think they will be pretty neutral, on balance. this is too serious a matter to be sort of hoisted on what you prefer or what you do not prefer. you have to be professional. you have to get down and work out a deal which is also accommodating for europeans and so forth. and i think this result will influence the direction of the nature of the negotiations. ask you, janet, about something interesting which came up this morning. i had a tory mp on the channel only a couple of hours ago saying what this proves is that hard brexit is dead. this is interesting because conservative mps will now start to argue in terms of brexit, then the dental factionalism in the government side is quite serious. i think the tories are pretty ruthlessly disciplined and i think that will be brought under control,
that kind of talk. but that is neither here nor there. the real issue remains that there is serious disagreement within the party and serious disagreement even among conservative voters. when i said that they use it as a way of having a second referendum, there were an awful lot of dedicated voters who voted tactically deliberately to sabotage the government's attempts because they were convinced that it would go for hard brexit and partly because they hoped to destabilise the situation so much that they hope they would have to go away the situation so much that the whole thing would have to go away and that is just not political possible. it is with the situation of theresa may being not very credible as a brexiteer. unfolding the flag. the biggest u—turn is interning from a quiet remain to a brexiteer. she was always able to remain, but that makes it even more suspicious.
if she is not frank about these things. i don't see why eu leaders in any sense can take theresa may seriously after this. clearly, she got this election on a false premise meaning that the more seats she got would strengthen her hands. eu governments have no interest whatsoever in the scale of her majority. they are interested injust doing the deal with britain. they want to deal with whoever is sitting in the seat across the table from them. can ijust finished that point? eu governments are accountable to their own electorates. their own voters. that is what they are interested in. what britain does is only of interest to britain. in terms of that, we have seen that she has had a shambolic campaign. she is now drastically weakened her own authority and she now has two sets of people, well, three sets. she has the dup on the one hand, she has hard—core right—wing brexit supporters, and she also has a liberal remain faction like nicky morgan.
and the problem is before she struggled to get legislation through — do you remember national insurance when she tried to do a u—turn on that but she did not have a majority? how is she going to get anything through when she has three completely different factions? i will give you all one last word. how long has theresa may got? at least until the finalisation of the first negotiations on brexit. a year. maybe a year. she has no authority. she will not last until the end of this year. thank you all very much. a real pleasure to have you here. what a fascinating week in politics. we will be back with more next week. from all of us on the programme, goodbye. hello there.
we'll start with a quick look at the latest satellite sequence, which shows a swirl of cloud out to the west of the uk. that's the centre of an area of low pressure, and its weatherfronts have been drifting away across the uk, bringing some rain, but never really got to the south—east corner. it's been a lovely afternoon here, with some sunshine and some warmth, as confirmed by one of our weather watchers in east sussex. underneath that cloud, well, here's a picture from wales, and it shows rain on the windows. there has been some rain stretching from northern england to wales to the south—west. i think northern england will tend to dry up and that patchy rain will drift its way through the midlands, very light and patchy by this stage. behind it, some dry spells, but there will be a few showers in scotland and in northern ireland. but temperatures probably no lower than 1a or so degrees for glasgow and belfast. some parts of the south—east probably no lower than about 16 or 17 degrees, so quite a close night here. into the morning then, scattered showers across scotland and northern ireland. on to monday and we've got a fair
number of isobars in the charts, still quite breezy, but pressure is building all the while. this little weather feature might be a focal point for some wetter weather in western scotland. this is bbc news. the headlines at 5pm: the prime minister's top aides, nick timothy and fiona hill, have resigned after the conservatives failed to win an overall majority in the general election. they went following what the bbc understands were demands from some senior tories that mrs may would face a leadership challenge if the two had remained by her side. the prime minister is preparing for talks with the democratic unionist party to shore up her government. the chief whip is in belfast for talks. the other headlines: