tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News June 30, 2017 9:00am-11:01am BST
hello, it's friday, it's 9 o'clock, i'm joanna gosling, welcome to the programme. documents seen by bbc news suggest the cladding recently fitted on grenfell tower was nearly £300,000 cheaper than the type originally chosen. this latest development in the fire's aftermath comes as a council meeting last night descended into chaos. an absolute fiasco, this is why i'm calling for your resignation, not because of what happened with the fire, but the sheer and ongoing incompetence that this council has shown ever since it happened. we'll bring you the latest from the scene in west london. the end of a long and desperate journey. the parents of ten—month—old charlie gard — who lost their fight to take him to america for experimental treatment — say his life support will be switched off today. it's going to be the worst day of our lives. we know what day our son is going to die and we don't even get a say in what is going to happen to him. we'll look back at the enormous effort they went to,
to keep him alive. donald trump's travel ban takes effect after months of controversy. people from six mainly muslim countries and all refugees will now face a tougher time getting into the us. the president says it's designed to stop terrorism. hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11am. after a fall in knife crime, levels are now going back up in london. four people killed in four days this week. we are talking to a mum whose son was stabbed and killed and also to a man who lost his brother. do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning — use the hashtag victorialive and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. our top story today — cladding fitted to grenfell tower during its refurbishment was changed to a version which cost nearly £300,000 less than the original
version chosen, a document seen by the bbc has revealed. at least 80 people were killed when the tower block in west london was destroyed by fire two weeks ago. a council meeting to discuss the tragedy was called off last night within minutes of starting after a row broke out over the attendance of members of the public and press. dan johnson reports. he wants answers, and the rest of us... a meeting of councillors ending in chaos. another sign of a council creaking under pressure. that's the reality. having failed to properly respond to the disaster, last night, kensington and chelsea failed in a bid to ban reporters from this meeting. 0ur reputation is absolutely... theyjust don't give a bleep. ..in the gutter. a high courtjudge had to remind senior councillors their discussions are supposed to be open so the top team walked out. the leader of the council's labour group is demanding changes
and notjust at the top. i want the senior leadership of the council and the cabinet to resign. i want a new organisation in the council who can finally get to grips with the situation and make sure that my residents are properly housed and looked after. ten days after this disaster, and i'll remind you, we are only two or three miles away from parliament, we're not in the middle of a third world country, ten days after the disaster, my people are still not being housed properly. they are not being listened to. they are still not getting the access to the money they've been promised. how are you doing? not too bad. you all right? how are you? before last night's meeting, the council leader accepted the criticism but said he was not going. the scale of this was absolutely enormous, unprecedented. i think any council would have found it difficult to have everything in place at once. this was a very big challenge for a relatively small london borough and i'm sure we could have done better and we will look
at what we could have done differently or quicker or better and that will be one of the lessons that we learn from this tragedy. the panels stuck on the building are a key area for the investigation. the bbc has been told that during refurbishment, zinc cladding was rejected in favour of an aluminium alternative, not as fire retardant, although it has the same official rating. it was chosen because it was cheaper. the council saved more than £290,000. how costly that decision could have been is one of many questions for the inquiry. danjohnson, dan johnson, bbc news. a man has been charged with fraud after allegedly claiming he lost family members in the grenfell tower fire. anh nhu nguyen, who's 52 and of no fixed address, faces five charges. he will appear in court later today. we will speak to the chairman of the
local government association shortly for his reaction to everything that is going on after the grenfell tower fire. first, annita is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the day's news. the parents of ten—month—old charlie gard, who fought an unsuccessful legal battle to take him to america for experimental treatment, say he will stop receiving life—support today. charlie has a rare genetic condition and brain damage. doctors at great 0rmond street hospital said the us treatment would not help him. we should be over the road, sitting next to our son, charlie gard's bed, spending the last precious few hours with him. but we just thought we would take five minutes out to come and tell you where we are. it's a video no one should ever have to make. in a heart—breaking youtube post, ten—month—old charlie gard's parents say they're being denied their last hope for their baby boy.
we promised our little boy every single day that we would take him home, because that is a promise we thought we could keep. we want to give him a bath at home, we want to sit on the sofa with him, we want to sleep in the bed with him, we want to put him in a cot that he's never slept in, but we are now being denied that. charlie was born with a rare genetic condition and is severely brain—damaged. connie yates and chris gard have been fighting to keep his life support switched on since march, despite doctors saying there's no hope for improvement. they took their fight all the way to the european court of human rights. but this week, they lost, as judges agreed with the british courts it was most likely charlie was being exposed to continued pain. today, his life support will be switched off. his parents say they're being rushed at the most difficult time of their lives. the 4th of august 2016
was the best day of our life, the day charlie was born. but 30th june, 2017, is going to be the worst day of our lives. great 0rmond street hospital say they won't comment on specific details of patient care, but this is a very distressing situation for charlie's parents and all of the staff involved and their focus remains with them. the german parliament has voted to legalise same—sex marriage. the bill will grant gay and lesbian couples full marital rights including child adoption. let's get more from berlin correspondent, jenny hill. good morning. the chancellor herself voted against this bill but she gave mpsa voted against this bill but she gave mps a free vote, didn't she? yes come angela merkel will, i suppose, go down in history as the chancellor who in effect made same—sex marriage possible in germany. this all
happened in a very last minute and dramatic fashion. earlier this week, mrs merkel gave an interview during which she appeared to drop her long—standing opposition to same—sex marriage and said that she would give mpsa marriage and said that she would give mps a free vote on the subject. that allowed her left—wing political opposition to effectively jumped that allowed her left—wing political opposition to effectivelyjumped at the chance to push through a bill they have been trying to get into parliament for many years. they managed to do it right at the last minute. parliament goes on summer holidays tomorrow. mrs merkel, because she had allowed mps a free vote, effectively dave parliamentary approval. it meant there was enough support across parliament to pass the legislation, even though she herself then voted against the measure. in a way, i suspect she was trying to appeal to the more conservative elements of her own party whilst in effect allowing this to go ahead. bear in mind, mrs merkel has an election later this year and she merkel has an election later this yearand she might merkel has an election later this
year and she might have to go into coalition with parties who would have demanded same—sex marriage legislation as part of a coalition agreement. so a lot of politics going on behind—the—scenes but certainly in germany, i think it is a decision which is very welcome. the majority of germans, a poll suggests, are in favour of same—sex marriage. it is one of the very last, i suppose, western liberal democracy to bring in this legislation. it is likely to face some challenges at the constitutional court but if all goes according to plan, it should come into force by the end of the year. thank you forjoining us. jenny hill in berlin. parts of president trump's controversial travel ban have come into force today. on monday, a supreme court ruling upheld the temporary ban, which covers visitors from six mainly muslim countries and means people without "close" family or business relationships in the us could be denied visas and barred entry. but the measures have already been brought back to court by the us state of hawaii. an investigation by chemical weapons inspectors has concluded that the banned nerve agent sarin
was used in an attack on a rebel—held town in northern syria in april. more than 80 people were killed. the attack prompted the united states to launch a cruise missile strike on a syrian government air base. the foreign secretary borisjohnson said he had no doubt syrian president bashar al—assad's forces were involved in the chemical attack. funerals for two of the manchester bombing victims will be held later today. 22 people were killed when suicide bomber salman abedi detonated a device as crowds left an ariana grande concert. a service will be held for 29—year—old martyn hett at stockport town hall, which will also be screened onto the street outside for members of the public. another funeral will take place for 15—year—old megan hurley from merseyside. the american tennis player venus williams, who is due to play at wimbledon next week, has been involved in a car crash which led to the death of a 78—year—old man.
a police spokesman told the bbc they were investigating the incident in florida, which happened earlier this month. williams‘ lawyer said the tennis star "expresses her deepest condolences to the family" affected. more than a quarter of women who are overdue for a cervical cancer test don't know screening is available, according to cancer research uk. the charity found there was a particular lack of awareness among women who spoke english as a second language. around 3,000 new cases are diagnosed every year and the charity says more needs to be done to reach women who are missing tests. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. more at 9.30am. back to you. let us know your thoughts on knife crime. the number of knife crime attacks in london has gone up quite dramatically this year. we are going to be talking about why and what can be done to try to reverse the trend. use the hashtag victoria live
and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. let's get some sport with hugh. just days away from the start of wimbledon, johanna konta is looking in good form? yes, it seems to be going pretty well for her ahead of this year's wimbledon. we know already she's not the greatest grass court player and it is not her favourite surface she's only of a won one match at wimbledon which is something she definitely going to be looking to improve this year. she won two matches yesterday in the warm up tournament in eastbourne. firstly, she came past french open champion jelena 0stapenko in three sets before her quarterfinal against the world number one angelique kerber. johanna konta took the first set 6-3, johanna konta took the first set 6—3, playing very well. but she fell heavily on match point in the second set and the match was delayed for about ten minutes as she had treatment. but she recovered and eventually took her fourth match point and the second set 6— for some good day at the british number one.
—— 6—4. good day at the british number one. -- 6-4. and good day at the british number one. —— 6—4. and heather watson is also into the last four in eastbourne with a win over barbora strycova. she will take on former world number one caroline wozniacki later. johanna konta faces birdseed karolina pliskova. lots to look forward to later. good news for both of them but not so much for andy murray because his sore hip means he pulled out of his final warm up match, resting instead yesterday, and he said he is unlikely to be able to practise today which is not ideal preparation for the number one seed and the world number one. how about the world number 855? if you don't know who he is, his name is alex ward, the only briton to come through singles qualifying for wimbledon, doing it by coming from a set down to beat teymuraz gabashvili infour set down to beat teymuraz gabashvili in four sets set down to beat teymuraz gabashvili infoursets in set down to beat teymuraz gabashvili in four sets in roehampton. he will be one of 12 british players in the main draw which is made in around an hour. we will have news on that a bit later. it is made even more
amazing for alex ward as he was given a wild card just to get into qualifying having lost his previous seven matches before this week. it isa seven matches before this week. it is a great result for him. so much for british tennis fans to look forward to in the next couple of weeks. johanna konta and heather —— and heather watson's semifinals will be on bbc two straight after this programme. and we love an underdog is alex ward will have lots of support! huge match in rugby union this weekend but it is the team selection for the lions that has got everyone talking. we spoke about the pressure the lions are under yesterday. warren gatland made some changes which have prompted raised eyebrows, former welsh internationaljonathan prompted raised eyebrows, former welsh international jonathan davies telling the bbc that warren gatland had his last of the dice by putting johnny sexton and owen farrell in the back line together. former playerjeremy guscott has called the decision ambitious but said it could come at a cost, calling it a gamble. the lions must win the second test
against new zealand in wellington at around this time tomorrow morning or they will hand the all blacks the series win. it is about character this week for us. it is about manning up and putting everything on the line. it is that situation, isn't it? it is do or die for us. indeed it is, a big game tomorrow morning, lots to look forward to. more sport later. documents obtained by bbc news show that the cladding originally due to be installed on grenfell tower was changed to a version which cost nearly £300,000 less. the cladding was fitted as part of a refurbishment and is thought to have contributed to the rapid spread of the blaze that consumed the 2a—storey block two weeks ago. it comes as a meeting of senior councillors at kensington and chelsea town hall last night, which was linked to the grenfell tower tragedy, descended into chaos when it was scrapped as journalists entered the room. the media has been barred until a
court order gave them permission to attend. the leader of the council was confronted by opposition councillors. this is a private meeting of the cabinet... why are the press here then? to which councillors have been invited. i've agreed the meeting be held in private given the threats of assaults. are there journalists here. i'm advised if there are others present we cannot have an open discussion. you have got
journal i haves in the room.|j understand we can't have an open discussion. you can't organise a cabinet meeting. we can't have an unprejudiced meeting if journalists are recording and writing our comments. clearly they are, who let them in? you have spent a day talking about the security of the meeting and five minutes before it starts, the press are here. now you're telling us we can't have a proper meeting. the press are here asa proper meeting. the press are here as a result of legal representation, that means we can't have the discussion we were intending to have. that will prejudice the inquiry. that is the legal advice i have received and i have to declare the meeting closed. you have used this as an opportunity for you to make a statement and no one gets to say anything. you could have issued that statement and you should have issued that statement eight days ago. that statement hasjust been
issued. i would like to have a conversation, but i'm advised we can't do that. an absolute fiasco, because of the incompetence this council has shown since this happened. thank you, my advice i we can't continue. you telling us you're taking advice, you're taking the wrong advice. you're not facing up the wrong advice. you're not facing up even to your own councillors. why don't you come and talk to people? you saw robert well you saw robert atkinson there, a labour councillor whose ward councillor whose ward includes grenfell tower, criticising the the way the council proceeded. he's been speaking to our reporter dan johnson about what happened at the meeting. it was utter chaos. we went with the idea
that we would be briefed as to what the council is proposing to do in the longer term for the residents to take care of the housing needs, not just of the victims but the people of the surrounding area, so we had a whole series of questions and wished to have a genuine debate. the leader of the council read a statement, which he should have done ten days ago, and then once he became aware that the media were present, he sought to change the meeting, which of course... to close the meeting, which, of course, we then challenged him and tried to ask our questions. it ended in a complete farce. would you rather the meeting had gone ahead without the press and public there? well, initially, we were told that it would be a private meeting and that we could be frank with each other, but we ended up with the worst of all worlds. the residents have a right to meet with the leaders of the council. the leaders of the council have been hiding from the residents for the last week, and they should have had the courage to meet with people and answer questions. the least that we could do is to face the residents face—to—face, and they are not
prepared to do it. why not, do you think? i think they're frightened and they're in a panic, and they wish to give the impression that they are in control. and they're clearly not, as the entire nation saw last night. they can't even organise a meeting in the basement of their own town hall. what do you think should happen next? i think that the leadership of the council and the cabinet need to resign. i think that the tmo organisation, which has completely collapsed and failed to do anything in the last ten days, need to go. they need to grasp hold of the housing and care needs of their residents and they need to do something. so, i'm now appealing to tory backbenchers, who have now seen for themselves the way that their cabinet is not coping, to get a grip and organise themselves. wouldn't a wholesale change of leadership at the top of the counciljust cause more problems right now? well, that's one reason why we waited — we did think that there
might be more chaos, but actually, we're now ina situation where the other local authorities who have been supporting us want to pull out, but they are not able to pass responsibility, particularly not for the housing needs, back to the council, because the council is not functioning, which is why, at the end of the day yesterday, i urged the government to send in commissioners to run it for us. that's what you think should happen? it's not often that a councillor calls for the abolition of his own council, but at the end of the day, as everybody so, something needs to be done. you're saying kensington and chelsea just isn't up to this and it needs to be a higher power that takes over? yes, it took the government till last week to get rid of the chief executive of the council. the council couldn't even sack its own chief executive. now i'm saying to the government, the council itself can't function, so the government needs to step in and appoint commissioners. members of press sought and acquired
an injunction that was served on the council. members of press joined the meeting after it started. the cabinet received legal advice that in order not to prejudice the public inquiry the meeting could not proceed as it would not be possible to restrict the discussion without straying into areas that would fall into the remit of public inquiry. we will explore opportunity for open discussions that don't prejudice the public inquiry. so far, all of the 137 tests on cladding of high rise buildings across the country have failed safety tests. but the chair of the london government association lord porter is now questioning the value of those tests.
lord porterjoins us now. that meeting, what a farce, what did you think seeing the pictures of what happened ? you think seeing the pictures of what happened? seeing that didn't paint local government in the best light. if i paint local government in the best light. if i was running that council i would hope i would have the ability to run it in a slightly different way than it happened last night. you have to be careful how you organise meetings, particularly around a sensitive issue and the public must be able to know what is going on, so must the press. should the meeting have gone on. going on, so must the press. should the meeting have gone onlj going on, so must the press. should the meeting have gone on. i don't know the things they know about the thing ts they were going to talk about. if they thought it could prejudice the public inquiry, maybe their advice was right. i can't imagine for myself that with something so sensitive we would have dealt with it that way. it is not like it is not being talked about elsewhere, we have the documents on
the cladding, these things are out there being talked about, the residents are talking, it is hard to imagine what might have come up in the meeting, but we don't know. to people looking on itjust looks like an attempt to try to shut down debate. but this subject is so large and so wide and so far—fetched in terms of its impact that this debate will not be able to be shut down. if anybody thinks there would be a closed door cover up, they will be mistaken. it is notjust kensington and chelsea, you had a number of tower blocks, we have 17 councils, 27 social landlords and in the private checks, 12 tower blocks that are owned privately have failed the test in and there is something wrong the testing. it is not the panel, it is the way the experts have adviced the government to test the panel.
the government have been told by the pecks erts, read —— by tex perpts they should —— experts they should test the core of the panel, not the whole panel. we need to do proper fire checks on the insulation behind the panels. again that is something i want to come back to i still want to focus on kensington and chelsea, because the labour councillor robert atkinson, said it is time for the senior leadership of the council to go and the cabinet, because they can't command faith in the way they're handling can't command faith in the way they‘ re handling the can't command faith in the way they're handling the aftermath of g re nfell tower. they're handling the aftermath of grenfell tower. would you agree? they're handling the aftermath of grenfell tower. would you agree ?m is not me for to agree or disagree, asi is not me for to agree or disagree, as i said, i would hope if i was tested this way i wouldn't be running the council meetings like that. it is notjust about the running of the meeting, but the way
the residents are being treated, they don't feel they're being heard and they're they don't feel they're being heard and they‘ re not they don't feel they're being heard and they're not being housed properly, are they best placed to be handling this, are they doing a good job? i don't know on the ground the exactjob job? i don't know on the ground the exact job they're job? i don't know on the ground the exactjob they're doing. i know from what i have seen on the media that the people we should be focussing on don't appear to be focussed on the way they should be. the people who need the help do not feel they're getting it, therefore is it a pretty obvious conclusion that the people who should be giving the house are not doing a good job and it is time for someone else to take over? that is for the members of kensington or the government to take care of. the local government association does haven't the ability to determine who ru ns haven't the ability to determine who runs a council. you must are a view when you look at it and see what is happening and there are calls for nick paget—brown to go and others to
90, nick paget—brown to go and others to go, who could make them go? can anybody make them go? the councillors can do that if they call an emergency motion they can call a motion of no confidence. 0r an emergency motion they can call a motion of no confidence. or the government can decide it is so bad we are going to put a team of outside people in. and we would help them do that. this is two week on, there are people who are struggling and very unhappy and it doesn't take much thought to work out why. they have lost everything. so two week on, is it time to say, you have had your chance and you have not done what is required. it is time for the member of kenning sing —— kensington and chelsea to decide. i have only seen and chelsea to decide. i have only seen snippets on the media. i can't offer a reasoned view, it would be unreasonable for me to do and unkind
for the victims to offer opinions about who is best placed to run them. the victims are desperate for people in authority to champion what they, how they feel, what they need. we should all be doing that. all the councillors at kensington and chelsea and around the country, i don't believe anybody‘s walking through their normal lives at the moment. my own organisation has had 25 member of staff working on this because of the scale of the national issue. i can't just because of the scale of the national issue. i can'tjust concentrate on one council. i can't put into words how i feel about the victims and how they have been treated now, i can't do that. i would turn into an angry man shouting at the tv. at the moment the biggest issue we are facing as a country, is everyone of the tests has failed. it is not one or two people who has got it wrong,
it is everybody according to the people who have done the testing. there are so many, there are so many elements to this, as you point out, because of decision that have been made, councils are caught up in this, people are caught up in this, they're in blocks and fear they're not safe. the people who need help are those who are lost their loved ones and lost everything that they held dear to them. they have got nothing and you said you... you said you turned into an angry man several times shouting at the tv, what has it been that has made you shout at the tv. i can't say, i can't use the language i use when i'm shouting at the tv. what is it that moves you to that? it is the whole thing, it is the... sadness, the anger, the fear, it is all of it. i have never in all the time i have been in local
government i have never experienced the level of emotions that this is taking from people. and the way it has affected everyone. i have seen grown people crying over things they couldn't do and had no power to fix. this is biting into the personal feelings of everybody who sees what is going on. what will put it right for these people? two weeks on, they don't know where they are going to end up. they don't know if they will get to stay in the local area. they should be able to stay in the accommodation thatis be able to stay in the accommodation that is available. the trouble is, i don't know what the number of available properties is in kensington and chelsea. because i'm not on the ground, i don't know what stock they have got available to use. i can't answer those questions. could this, i know that you don't wa nt could this, i know that you don't want a kind of say that people in the council have to go but it is ha rd to the council have to go but it is hard to imagine why it is taking so long, two weeks. would other people have done it differently? you have said you would handle the council
meeting differently. it is surely not beyond the wit of people to have got together and it is a relatively small group of people, to have just made sure that they were held close, championed, and that they weren't in this position now. i don't disagree with you. so is it time for some to ta ke with you. so is it time for some to take responsibility for the back that did not happen? the people on the ground need to hold their own people to account. i can't do that. either the government or the local councillors need to determine who is the right group of people to be running that situation. i'm not that close to it to be able to make that call. i can't do it. the point to me is that we have not said anything in the media at all as an organisation until today because we have been trying to gather the facts across the whole country. this isn'tjust a few people. it is not coming you know, one borough. we have got 17 councils across the country, 27 registered social landlords and at
least, at the moment, 12 private tower blocks where the cladding has failed its tests. i am concerned that the test is not the appropriate test to determine the safety of those buildings. so on that, are you saying that you are concerned that actually, some of the cladding is potentially 0k and it does not have to be taken off? because obviously, this is an enormously expensive and disruptive business. on the basis of the tests being carried out, i don't think it is safe to say the cladding has failed. that cladding has a safety certificate to say it is a safety certificate to say it is a safe and appropriate building product. it has a good fire rating. if that is not the case, we have to establish that but we can't do it just by drilling a small sample of the core of the panel. we need to test the whole panel. we also need to test the way the panels are fixed to test the way the panels are fixed to the walls and we also need to test the insulation that is the cavity fill sitting behind it. that sounds so obvious and yet you are
saying that is not the way it is being tested? saying that is not the way it is being tested ? they saying that is not the way it is being tested? they are testing the call which is flammable. that is another mess, isn't it? who is responsible for it being done that way? i m responsible for it being done that way? i'm not an expert and as far as ican see, way? i'm not an expert and as far as i can see, it is the experts‘ fault. the government have been advised by experts to do the test this way. i think it is wrong. i think we need to do the tests properly but i‘m not an expert. just on the choice of cladding for grenfell tower, it has emerged, according to documents, that the original cladding that was picked which was a think cladding was subsequently rejected and an aluminium cladding was picked instead which saved £300,000. —— a zinc cladding was subsequently rejected. was it penny—pinching and if so, can you understand that in the context of a council that was sitting on a cash pile of £300 million? erm, look, without going into the complicated argument of the
separation of how council finances have do happen and how housing accou nts have do happen and how housing accounts have to be kept separate from the general, normal fund account, the balance is available to them were not £300 million but they we re them were not £300 million but they were large. i don‘t know if the rationale behind the change was one of finance or for athletics or whatever but if it was changing one product that was suitable for another product that was suitable, that should be the issue. was the product they put on fit for purpose? that is what we need to establish. were the panels on that tower fit for purpose and if they are, that means we have a different problem. for the safety of everybody, we need to work out what the problem is, not justjump to work out what the problem is, not just jump on one to work out what the problem is, not justjump on one thing, doing inappropriate test and then blame it. we need to look at everything, the insulation that is the cavity fill behind the panels and then we need to look at the panels as a total panel. we need to be able to get somebody basically to put the panel on top of fire and count how
long it takes for it burn. just before we let you go, you have said it is for local people to decide whether those running the council should go, it is not for you to force anyone to go. but obviously, people don‘t have to be forced out. they can decide to go themselves if they don‘t feel they have been doing a good job. presumably people will be reflecting on whether they can actually feel they themselves have done everything that they could. would you urge people to reflect on whether they have done everything they could? everybody involved in this, members, officers, they all need to look at themselves in the mirrorand need to look at themselves in the mirror and say, "did need to look at themselves in the mirrorand say, "did i need to look at themselves in the mirror and say, "did i do what i thought was right and could i have done it any better?" i can‘t answer for them. lord porter, thank you very much indeed forjoining us. annita is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the day‘s news.
cladding fitted to grenfell tower during its refurbishment was changed toa during its refurbishment was changed to a version which cost nearly £300,000 less. documents seen by the bbc have revealed this. at least 80 people were killed when a tower block in west london was destroyed by fire two weeks ago. the documents show officials originally chose a zinc cladding but then decided upon a less fire retardant aluminium version. kensington and chelsea council says safety would not have been compromised to manage budgets. a council meeting to discuss the tragedy was called off last night within minutes of starting after a row broke out over the attendance of members of the public and the press. the council halted the meeting, claiming it would prejudice the forthcoming public inquiry but london mayor sadiq khan said the council‘s decision beggars belief. meanwhile, a man has been charged with fraud after allegedly claiming he lost family members in the grenfell tower fire. anh nhu nguyen, who‘s 52 and of no fixed address, faces five charges. he will appear in court later today. some news just
some newsjust in, british consumers have suffered the longest decline in their spending power since the 19705, their spending power since the 1970s, official data hasjust shown. household disposable income, adjusted for inflation, fell for the third quarter in a row, the office for national statistics said. the parents of ten—month—old charlie gard, who fought an unsuccessful legal battle to take him to america for experimental treatment, say he will stop receiving life—support today. charlie has a rare genetic condition and brain damage. doctors at great 0rmond street hospital said the us treatment would not help him. chris gard and connie yates say they‘ve now been told they will not be able to take their son home to die. the german parliament has voted to legalise same—sex marriage. the bill will grant gay and lesbian couples full marital rights, including child adoption. it had been backed by most of germany‘s political parties although it was opposed by
conservative allies of chancellor merkel. she changed her mind to allow the free vote. that is a summary allow the free vote. that is a summary of the latest news. more at 10am. time for a sports update. in around half an hour, time for a sports update. in around halfan hour, we time for a sports update. in around half an hour, we will see the draw for the first round of wimbledon taking place ahead of next week‘s tournament. johanna konta and heather watson are tuning up nicely, both into the semifinals at the aegon championships in eastbourne. johanna konta with two wins yesterday and survived a late injury scare to beat world number one angelique kerber. she will play karolina pliskova later after watson‘s semifinal against caroline wozniacki. men‘s number one seed andy murray‘s preparations are not going well. he pulled out of his final warm going well. he pulled out of his finalwarm up going well. he pulled out of his final warm up match at hurling with a sore hip and could not train yesterday. he says it is unlikely and he will be resting again today. british and irish lions coach andy farrell says it‘s do or die ahead of the second test against new zealand tomorrow morning. defeating wellington would mean the all blacks
ta ke wellington would mean the all blacks take the series. after signing jermain defoe yesterday, paul baysse for bournemouth, they have this —— they have signed defender nathan ake from chelsea for a reported 20 —— a reported £20 million which would be a club record fee. the dutch international spent half of last season on loan at the vitality stadium. more sport in half an hour, including the wimbledon drawjust after 10am. next, just three weeks afterjeremy corbyn‘s general election success, you may have thought things would have settled down for the labour leader. but last night, three of his top team were sacked after defying orders during the queen‘s speech amendment votes and backing a call for the uk to stay in the single market after brexit. another one quit. shadow ministers andy slaughter, catherine west and ruth cadbury had supported the challenge made by another labour mp chuka umunna. staying in the single market is not labour policy and the party‘s mps had been told to abstain. 50 rebelled.
0ur political correspondent is alex forsyth. what does this say about what is going on within the labour party and within parliament on the whole issue of brexit and what gets through?” think this lays bare the divisions in the labour party over its approach to brexit. we have long known the tories are divided over the eu which is usually what we talk about but now we are seeing the differences in labour and they are subtle. as you say, this amendment was about staying in the single market whereas labour‘s official position is about having all the benefits of the single market. su btle benefits of the single market. subtle but important. as you say, a number of mps voted againstjeremy corbyn‘s instructions and backed the amendment and we had those sackings and one resignation as a consequence. what is interesting is howjeremy corbyn has handled it because we know he has been used to dissenting voices among his own mps ever since he took over as labour leader, really. lots of the parliamentarians in the labour party
don‘t necessarily agree with all his views and for a long time they did not support him as leader although now many are falling into line behind him. but whatjeremy corbyn has done on this occasion is sack people and asserted his authority in a way that he did not really do before the election. i think he feels he has been emboldened by the election result and now has a mandate. what that does not solve is labour‘s position on brexit. mandate. what that does not solve is labour's position on brexit. thank you forjoining us. the life support system for terminally—ill baby charlie gard will be switched off today, afterjudges at the european court of human rights rejected his parents‘ plea for them to intervene. connie yates and chris gard yesterday lost their final legal bid to take their son to the us for treatment. charlie is thought to be one of 16 children in the world to have mitochondrial depletion syndrome, which causes progressive muscle weakness and brain damage. and the court agreed with great 0rmond street hospital, saying further treatment would cause him significant harm. after that ruling came in,
connie and chris took a little time away from their baby‘s bedside yesterday, to record a message, released on youtube, for those who‘ve supported them through this battle. we‘ve been talking with great 0rmond street since november last year, when they first started talking about court, about what palliative care meant, and we had three options. one option was to let charlie go in hospital. the other option was to let charlie go to a hospice. and the third option was to let charlie go home to die. so we chose to take charlie home to die. and we have said this for months, that that is what we want, that is our last wish, if it went this way, the way it‘s gone. and we‘ve promised our little boy every single day that we will take him home, because that is a promise we thought we could keep. we want to give him a bath at home. we want to sit on the sofa with him. we want to sleep in bed with him. we want to put him in a cot
he's never slept in. but we are now being denied that. you know, we had a meeting yesterday where we were told we were going to discuss our options, and you know, we said we'd like to take him home. if that's not possible, can we take him to a hospice? they said no to both, he has to die in that hospital tomorrow. they said they couldn‘t get transport to take us home, so we‘ve offered to pay for that privately, with a private team, and they said that‘s not an option. you know, i'm sure you read in the media that they've come out and said there's no rush, no rush to do all this. we're working closely with the family to arrange his end of life care. we‘ve literally begged them to give us this weekend. some of our family and friends can't come. they can't come before tomorrow. the last time they saw charlie will be the last time they ever see him.
and he‘s still so stable — that‘s what‘s so hard. he‘s so stable. as you probably see on our t—shirts, if he's still fighting, we're still fighting. and he's still fighting over there, believe me, he's still fighting. he's a little fighter, a little trooper and a soldier. he'll fight till the very end. and he's still fighting, but we're not allowed to fight for him any more. 0ur parental rights have been stripped away. we can't even take our own son home to die. we've been denied that. do you not think we've been put through enough? our final wish. our final wish, if it all went against us, and we've had this conversation many times, if we lose, can we take our little boy home to where he belongs to die? and we're not allowed. the 11th of august 2016 was the best day of our lives, the day that charlie was born. the 30th ofjune 2017 is going to be the worst day of our lives. we know what day our son's going to die.
we don't even get a say in what happens to him. he's got to die in that place. charlie will die in great 0rmond street hospital tomorrow. thank you, everyone for all your support. a month ago, connie and chris were here with us on victoria derbyshire to talk about their fight for charlie. victoria began by asking them what the chance of taking him to america for treatment would mean to them. it‘s literally life or death, isn‘t it? so, if we don‘t get this opportunity, he‘s going to die. what's the alternative? yeah. so, he hasn‘t got anything to lose, and we know that, even if it doesn‘t work, which i think it will, we know that we‘ve done everything that we can for him. like, we don‘t want to live with that what if. they could have done... they could have tried the treatment here. and you know, we've had to stomach the fact that they don't want to do the treatment here. 0k, we don't agree with that,
but we have to accept that. but the fact that they are blocking us from taking him to another hospital in the world with one of the leading experts in this area... who‘s a neurologist. i still to this day cannot get my head around. we took him into that hospital. they don't want to do the treatment, but there is somewhere around there that does, and they basicallyjust kept him a prisoner there, and our parental rights have been completely stripped, the minute we took him in there, in hindsight, we lost him, because, you know, they've. .. they've got complete responsibility for him. when we got the appeal papers, it says connie yates and chris gard versus great 0rmond street hospital and charlie gard, and yet, he's my son. it broke my heart when i saw that, because how can that be right? we are the ones that sit there with him, day in, day out, we are staying 24 hours at the moment. we love him with all our hearts, and we can't take him to somewhere that may save
and improve his life. and we will fight to the bitter end for him, and you know, whatever we have to go through to get the chance that he needs, we are more than willing to do, because he's our son and we love him. richard lister is here. they talk about their parental rights having been stripped, why did they not have the right to do what they not have the right to do what they thought was best for their son. it isa they thought was best for their son. it is a very sad case and people ask why don‘t they have the right to do twla they want with their child and decide what they think is in his interests. the law is clear the rights of child take precedence over the rights of adult and after the court has determined and a
succession of courts have determined what the best interests are for charlie gard, then those rights take priority. the courts have decided it is in his best interest to have palliative care and he could be exposed to suffering and be in distress, although we can‘t tell because of his condition, because he is being artificially kept alive. the courts are arguing on his behalf against the parents. so what happens now, the life support will be switched off today. great ormond street after the european court declined to take the case, because they backed the british court, because they would not rush to change charm‘s care, but —— charlie‘s care, but they have been saying it is in his best interest to allow him to die with dignity. while not pushing the parents into making the decision with undue speed they
have been saying it‘s time to consider this and to do it and it seems charlie‘s parents have accepted this will happen today. you said there have been court rulings on cases where there has been a conflict over what is the in the child‘s best interest, does this case push any new boundaries in terms of where the rights lie? no, but it underlines clearly that where the courts are concerned that there isa the courts are concerned that there is a difference between what the pa rents is a difference between what the parents think is in the best interest and what the courts decide ultimately the courts will prevail. great 0rmond street say, as with all patients, they are not able to discuss the specific details, they say it is a distressing situation for charlie‘s parents and the staff and their focus remains with them. thank you. the number of women
having a cervical smear test are falling. we will talk about that. let us know your thoughts, have you ever deliberately not gone for a smear ever deliberately not gone for a smear test. because you were worried about what it might be like. do let us about what it might be like. do let us know your thoughts on that. knife crime is returning to the levels of six years ago — signalling the end to a long, slow fall that had been welcomed by campaigners. in london, the picture is shocking — with four people killed in four days this week. ten teenagers have been stabbed to death in the capital this year. and in other parts of the country is no less bleak. in the west midlands, for example, the number of knife crimes has more than doubled in two years. so why‘s it happening and what can be done about it? with me in the studio is aaron douglas—letts,
whose younger brother was murdered last april, noel williams who mentors young people looking to leave gang life, chief superintendant john sutherland from the met police and in our studio in londonderry is michelle mcphillips, whose sonjj was stabbed and killed earlier this year. ifi if i can come to you aaron, your older brother was stabbed and killed this year. so you have had obviously been touched in the worst possible way by this. what are your thoughts on what is going on? well, knife crime right now, it‘s always been around, but now it is at an all time high and it is becoming ridiculous why these young people are dying. my
brother lost his life just over a year ago. he was not in a gang. he was a young guy coming to the transition of what he wanted to do with his life a trainee electrician and he lost his life. the way he lost his life was, it was very grim, it was in the afternoon, in broad daylight, not far from a school and you know not far from where the london mayor, siddique khan was living, he lost his life there and even until today we are trying to find answers, why is this thing happening in the way it is. we have a picture of your brother there. you told us a bit about him. tell us a bit more. lewis, he was a normal child, his dad passed away, his mum was a hard—working, she worked for the borough and he grew up in a nice home, he loved animals, he wanted to
do something with his life and he got caught up in this knife crime, because he was at the wrong place at the wrong time and he was innocents and he lost his life. michelle, your son was stabbed to death this year, our condolences go to you for your loss, tell us what happened to your son and what your thoughts are on kids carrying knives. my son jonathan was standing on the steps of town hall, he had gone out for the first time in two years for a night out with his cousins and he approached a car where some six people had surrounded a car with knives and were giving chase to people. he obviously felt safe enough to go forward to give help and they stabbed him straight in the heart. knife crime is on the rise again and it had been falling, i mean, is it an issue that you‘re
looking at in the broader sense as a result of what happened to your family, or do you just kind of sort of obviously have to deal with it in a personal way, do you have thoughts on the broader issues? the broader issue is i'm now on the streets in the borough where i live trying to get knife awareness, until my son got stabbed, i wasn't involved in this, people look at it like it was another gang member, my son wasn't ina gang another gang member, my son wasn't in a gang and the more of the parents that i speak to, they're not gang—related, they parents that i speak to, they're not gang— related, they have parents that i speak to, they're not gang—related, they have just got caught up in something. my son was where he was always, in upper street where he was always, in upper street where we have lived for 45 years. the people in the wrong place at the wrong time doing wrong were the people that turned up with the knives. what is the answer? i don't
know what the answer is. i think it isa very know what the answer is. i think it is a very long slow process to get an answer. i think stop and search needs to come back in and has to be donein needs to come back in and has to be done in the hotspot areas and it has to be taken and done to the people that are highlights the fact they're carrying knives and stop glamorising it and put knives in a specialist shop if you want to buy a knife of a certain size, you have to go with id and show it. at the moment, where are the knives coming from? where on earth do you get a zombie knife and why would you carry one to walk around the street. noel, michelle and aaron both saying their loved ones were not in gangs, you have experience of gang life and work
with youths in terms of youth justice to try to change things, what is it about, what is going on? 0bviously, what is it about, what is going on? obviously, this thing of people getting caught up in a situation where people have knives, why are they carrying them? it is a difficult thing to sorts of get your mind around. i don't think we can put one thing on it. you hear young people say they're scared and a lot of people are already involved in this activity through their parents, brothers, cousins, so it is generational. people are carrying knives. to be frank when they're carrying the knives, as the woman hasjust alluded to, a lot of people are committing crime with these knives and i'm sure when that car was surrounded, they did to maybe ta ke was surrounded, they did to maybe take the car or harm people in the car. we are not condoning that, what
i feel is for young people if you get caught with with a knife, we have a law and you go to prison and you come out. to curb this epidemic, we need to work with business, innovation and create skills and opportunities for people not to be sitting idle in the same place and lack of a cliche, not to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. we need to put them in different places and teach them different skims so they don't —— skills so they don't feel like walking around glamor wising it, ithink feel like walking around glamor wising it, i think the feel like walking around glamor wising it, ithink the media have a role, young people killed somebody again, i knowjohn will have his word, talk to a man like john and even he feels it is time to maybe do some different approaches. john, what do you think could be done?” think... i‘m notjusta policeman,
i‘m a resident of this city and a dad. there must be a short and a long—term approach. from a police point of view, the greatest responsibility that a police officer has, and the greatest privilege a police officer has is to save lives. that is what we have going to be doing in the short—term n partnership with youth workers and stop and search is important. my experience in nearly 25 years, stop and search used properly saves lives. but we are kidding ourselves if we think that is the whole answer. it is a short—term means of stopping young people stabbing young people. in the longer term we have got to understand the reasons why young people are picking up knives and using them in the first place. we have got to be prepared as a whole society to adopt a long—term approach. the london mayor says £22
million has been cut from youth groups since 2011 and 30 youth centres have closed. is that feeding into it. yes austerity is key on all fronts, as well as the police losing 20,000 people. these are things that have an effect on how things will go forward. lewis was a lovely young man and! forward. lewis was a lovely young man and i worked with him and he reaped the benefits of a charity we had that was closed down and a year and a half later from that i'm sure you can allude to it more, but young people have to come to family members to try and further their skills in whatever career they wanted to, because we don't have the places to help people. what do you think? the summer holidays are coming up and young people need something to do. these schemes are
not reaching the young people, even if you have events in place or plans to do for the summer, they're not seeing it. they are not aware it will happen, so we need to reach out to young people and make them aware by using social media, notjust to young people and make them aware by using social media, not just the young people are not reading newspaper and they're on web—sites and looking for way out, but nay need too see —— they need to see what is available via social media. thank you all very much forjoining us and sharing your thoughts on that. if you have any thoughts get in touch. now the weather. the weather is improving as we head to the course of the weekend but for today, a mixed picture out there. we can see that in the weather watchers pictures coming in, contrasting kent to cloudier, damp conditions in
north wales. we are seeing quite a lot of cloud with drizzly outbreaks of rain across scotland, northern england, down across wales and the south—west, quite blustery year. in the south—east, sunnier spells but also the chance of a few scattered, heavy showers. temperature is about 14-16 in heavy showers. temperature is about 14—16 in the north and west. into the south—east, 23 degrees or so but some isolated showers that could be quite heavy. showers will ease for most of us into this evening, a bit of rainfor most of us into this evening, a bit of rain for central and eastern england but tomorrow, rain clearing away quickly and we are back to drier weather and spells of sunshine, turning breezy and damp again for scotland and northern ireland later in the afternoon but with sunnier spells, highs of around 24. sunday, foremost, looks like another dry bright day. —— for most of us. hello, it‘s friday, it‘s 10 o‘clock, i‘m joanna gosling. documents seen by bbc news suggest the cladding recently fitted on grenfell tower was
nearly £300,000 cheaper than the type originally chosen. this latest development in the fire‘s aftermath comes as a council meeting last night descended into chaos. an absolute fiasco, this is why i‘m calling for your resignation, not because of what happened with the fire, but the sheer and ongoing incompetence that this council has shown ever since it happened. there is anger this morning here in north kensington with this apparent confirmation that money was saved during the refurbishment of this building. people here want to know why. the number of women having a smear test to screen for cervical cancer continues to fall. a leading cancer charity says more than a quarter of those due one are not even aware they can be tested for the disease. donald trump‘s travel ban takes effect after months of controversy. people from six mainly muslim countries and all refugees will now face a tougher time getting into the us. the president says it‘s designed to stop terrorism. also as the president is criticised
for another personal attack on an american newsreader, we‘ll discuss the reaction to those tweets. annita is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the day‘s news. good morning. cladding fitted to grenfell tower during its refurbishment was changed to a version which cost nearly £300,000 less, documents seen by the bbc have revealed. at least 80 people were killed when the tower block in west london was destroyed by fire two weeks ago. the documents show officials originally chose a zinc cladding but then decided upon a less fire retardant aluminium version. kensington and chelsea council says safety would not have been compromised to manage budgets. the chairman of the local government association said more needs to be
done to identify the root cause of problems. i don't know whether the rationale behind the change was one for finance rationale behind the change was one forfinance or rationale behind the change was one for finance or ascetics or whatever but if it was changing one product that was suitable for another product that was suitable, that should be the issue. was the product they put on fit for purpose? that is what we need to establish. are the panels on that tower fit for purpose? if they are, that means we have a different problem and for the safety of everybody, we need to work out what that problem is, notjust jump out what that problem is, notjust jump on one thing, do an inappropriate test and then blame it. we need to look at everything, the installation that is the cavity fill behind the panels, and we need to look at the panels as a total panel. we need to be able to get someone panel. we need to be able to get someone basically to put the panel on top of fire and see how long it ta kes for to on top of fire and see how long it takes for to burn. a council meeting to discuss the tragedy was called off last night within minutes of starting after a row broke out over the attendance of members of the public and the press. the council halted the meeting, claiming it would prejudice
the forthcoming public inquiry but london mayor sadiq khan said the council‘s decision beggars belief. meanwhile, a man has been charged with fraud after allegedly claiming he lost family members in the grenfell tower fire. anh nhu nguyen, who‘s 52 and of no fixed address, faces five charges. he will appear in court later today. the parents of ten—month—old charlie gard, who fought an unsuccessful legal battle to take him to america for experimental treatment, say he will stop receiving life support today. charlie has a rare genetic condition and brain damage. doctors at great 0rmond street hospital said the us treatment would not help him. chris gard and connie yates say they‘ve now been told they will not be able to take their son home to die. the german parliament has voted to legalise same—sex marriage. the bill will grant gay and lesbian couples full marital rights, including child adoption. it had been backed by most of germany‘s political parties although it was opposed by conservative allies of chancellor merkel.
she changed her mind to allow a free vote. 0ur berlin correspondentjenny hill thomas moore. this all happened in a very last minute and dramatic fashion. earlier this week, very last minute and dramatic fashion. earlierthis week, mrs merkel gave an interview during which she appeared to drop her long—standing opposition to same—sex marriage and said that she would give her mps marriage and said that she would give hermpsa marriage and said that she would give her mps a free vote on the subject. that allowed her left—wing, the political left here, opposition to effectively jump at the political left here, opposition to effectivelyjump at the chance to push through a bill they have been trying to get into parliament for many years. they managed to do it right at the last minute. parliament goes on its summer holidays tomorrow. mrs merkel, because she had allowed her mps a free vote, effectively gave parliamentary approval. jenny hill, there. that‘s a summary of the bbc news. more at 10:30am. let‘s get a sports update.
good morning again, we‘re patiently awaiting the draw for the first round of wimbledon, thingsjust getting underway at the all—england clu b getting underway at the all—england club and we will have details for you later but there are high hopes for british players next week, johanna konta‘s grass court form is steadily improving as she reached the semifinals of the aegon championships in eastbourne yesterday, getting past the french 0pen champion, jelena 0stapenko in three sets before a quarterfinal against the world number one angelique kerber. johanna konta took the first set 6—3, playing very well. she fell heavily on match point in the second set. the match was delayed for ten minutes as she was delayed for ten minutes as she was treated. but she recovered to eventually take her fourth match point and the second set, 6—4. a good win for her. heather watson is also doing very well, also into the last four having beaten barbora strycova. she will take on former world number one caroline wozniacki later. johanna konta will face third seed karolina pliskova.
andy murray should have been playing an exhibition match in london today but has pulled out with a sore hip. he is due to start a practice session this morning at wimbledon but his coach ivan lendl told our correspondent david 0rnstein today that andy murray was doing great so we will keep our fingers crossed for the defending wimbledon champion and world number one. alex ward, the world number 855, is the only briton to come through singles qualifying for wimbledon, coming from a set down to beat russia‘s teymuraz gabashvili in four set at roehampton. he was given a wild card to play in qualifying and had lost his last seven straight matches before this week so a great result for him. you can watch you hannah quanta and heather watson in eastbourne action on bbc two this morning from 11am. in rugby union, a crucial game coming up for the british and irish lions and warren gatland‘s selection for the second test against new zealand has been somewhat criticised. former wales
internationaljonathan davies things gatland is using the last role of the dice by putting johnny sexton and owen farrell together. former lions playerjeremy guscott think the decision is ambitious, calling ita the decision is ambitious, calling it a gamble. the lions must win tomorrow morning in wellington or they will hand the all blacks this series win. it is about character this week for us. it is about manning up and putting everything on the line because it is that situation, isn‘t it? it is do or die for us. there is nothing a mother wouldn‘t do for their son, even if you are a grown man playing in a professional golf tournament. china‘s lee hao—tong li his putter into the water at the 11th at the french open after a bit of a tantrum and about 20 minutes later, his mum waded into needy water to find it. she attracted a bit of attention from the other players on the course as they watched. she found the putter, but realised it had been
broken into macro, her efforts sending some of the players into fits of laughter as they watched her efforts. listen, ifi fits of laughter as they watched her efforts. listen, if i dropped my life savings into the bottom of the pond, i think my mum would be getting in there, i don‘t think. she deserves a medalfor getting in there, i don‘t think. she deserves a medal for her efforts. news just deserves a medal for her efforts. newsjust in, andy deserves a medal for her efforts. news just in, andy murray will face either a qualifier or a lucky loser in the first round of wimbledon. more on that draw later in the hour. fresh controversy this morning in the grenfell tower aftermath, it seems the cladding due to be originally installed on the high rise was changed to a version which cost nearly £300,000 less. the cladding is thought to have contributed to the rapid spread of the fire that consumed the 24 story block two weeks ago. nick beake is in west london for us. so, a lot has been emerging about the choices that we re been emerging about the choices that were made and what happened at the tower block. what is the reaction to the latest report that the cladding
was changed and nearly £300,000 was saved as a result? people are extremely angry you. remember, the refurbishment cost £10 million and as part of it, the cladding was put on the side of the building. we at the reason for that was to improve insulation but also to the appearance of the building. crucially, though, residents were told the cladding would—be zinc. but the bbc has seen the documents from 2014 that show quite clearly the list of potential savings was put forward and within that, the decision was taken, it would appear, not to go with zinc cladding, which had a fire retardant corba to go with aluminium cladding instead. that —— a fire retardant for but to go with aluminium cladding which would have saved almost £300,000, the documents suggest. it is not in any way suggested that fire safety regulations were diminished or that this was done to reduce fire safety
by the bbc has been told a key consideration in this was to save money and so it appears this decision was taken. it is worth pointing out that the material that went up is in the same kind of bracket as other materials the company which was responsible for installing the cladding could put on. it was the same kind of european standard but as we know, the police have subsequently said the cladding that went up on grenfell tower failed a safety test. it is still unclear as to whether that cladding was legal or not for a tower block like that. they‘re just does not seem like that. they‘re just does not seem to be a definitive answer. —— they‘re just does not. seem to be a definitive answer. —— they're just does not. know, and for lots of people living in north kensington, there is confusion because on the one hand, we hear that as i mentioned, the kind of material that was going up during the refurbishment was at the appropriate european safety level. but subsequently, the police have said it has failed a fire safety test and we have seen countless other blocks across the country where that has been deemed to be the
case. 0bviously, where that has been deemed to be the case. obviously, a criminal investigation is going on and the public inquiry to come, where these questions will be looked at in detail but for people here who remain angry, many out of a home, and dealing with the huge tragedy of what is going on, grieving, this adds to the confusion but also today, with this confirmation that potentially £300,000 was saved, it underlines and maybe reinforces suspicions people had that there was a possibility of saving money during this refurbishment. thank you for joining us. dr ahmed kazmi is a gp at a surgery close to grenfell tower, where many of his patients lived. he‘s spent the last fortnight supporting his patients who have lost loved ones, been left homeless or coming to terms with witnessing the horrors of the fire, and is also working with the police who are trying to identify the bodies. thank you forjoining us. i think at least ten of your patients died in the tower, is that right? we are still awaiting confirmation but we think that will be the number from
the surgery. so tell us more about what you have done since the fire. 0n the morning of the fire, it was quite an interesting day and if you will allow me, i wanted to share my experience of being at the rescue centre. i know there has been a lot of talk recently about some of the more controversial aspects of the g re nfell tower more controversial aspects of the grenfell tower fire but i actually had quite a profoundly moving experience in the rescue centre. you know, i went in there not sure what to expect or what state i would find people in but the unity and the solidarity that i felt there, and the way everyone was so dignified and coming together, the local residents as well as the local population and people from further afield, it was really quite beautiful to witness. i certainly hadn‘t ever felt as proud to be a member of that area as i was that day and i think that is a real credit to the residents and the people. i wanted to share that.” think everyone has taken heart from how people have come together on the ground. definitely. it is always a good thing to see. but in terms of
what your patients need now, are they coming to the surgery as a point of contact? what are they coming about? their main needs are twofold. 0n the one hand, practical issues like housing and clothing and money and passports, appointments, medication. you have got all of those kind of things that you require when you are starting from scratch again. on the other side of that also is the emotional support, the psychological support that comes from the consequences of having had a catastrophic event occur. what has been again quite heartening to see is that i have had lots of patients coming who have had positive experiences of help sith grenfell tower —— since grenfell tower. i spoke to a lady who used to be resident in the tower and i asked what she was doing for clothes and money and whether she was ok and she was proud to say, she pointed to her dress and said she had had donations and now she had received money and she could go shopping. another lady,
i asked if the paperwork was ok and she had documents and she said she was happy because she‘d gone to the westway centre and in one day, they turned around and gave her a passport. i think it is important to mention as well because sometimes we just talk about the things that have not worked. 0n mental health, we have heard people speaking, clearly traumatised, they need support, are you the first point of contact, are you the first point of contact, are you able to get quick referrals, because you know in the normal scheme of things a referral takes a long time. you're right and under usual circumstances, people often wait. the primary mental health team have done a lovelyjob and there is a24 have done a lovelyjob and there is a 24 hour telephone line, you can see the gp and there is a single point of entry access to mental health care. that support is on hand. i would again want to share
with people that i think there is a risk to make pathological what is actually normal sometimes. so when you‘re faced with this degree of catastrophe, to have bad dreams, in the short—term, for the immediate weeks after it to have a sense of panic to grieve, all these are normal emotions to have in relation to that event. i would encourage people to speak to their gp and the mental health care, for most people the initial involvement will be what we call watchful waiting, you offer support and witness their grief, but a large number of these will resolve by themselves. it is more individuals at high risk of post—traumatic stress disorder, if you had a preexisting mental health condition or have had experience of tragedy, they are at risk of having
an unusual or prolonged response to this. so we try to involve specialists early on. you're involved in helping to identify the bodies, what are you doing in that context? that is a bit of a difficult question to answer, i‘m not sure how much i‘m allowed to say, because of the nature of the disaster, sometimes identifying it difficult. there were so many children involved and may not have seen a children involved and may not have seen a dentist and there is no dentist records. so we will try and get a blood test. so it is trying to marry the information that the primary care team has that may use to the police to identify people. do you have, based on the conversations that you have had of you on what the final death toll might be, that is, there is so much frustration around
this? no, i think there is so much frustration around this? no, ithink most there is so much frustration around this? no, i think most people who live and work in the area, myself included, do believe that the death toll will continue to rise. i understand the logistics of trying to get that number is complicated and difficult. so i don‘t know will have to happen to get a count. but we are expecting to see it rise. if it is oki we are expecting to see it rise. if it is ok i want to give a couple of practical tips for the dispossessed. 0ne practical tips for the dispossessed. one problem that gps have faced in is in contacting their patients. many people change their telephone numberand many people change their telephone number and don‘t update wit the gp. we go to ring them and the number is out of service and we can‘t write to them. if i urge anyone dispossessed if you were a resident at gren, contact your gp and let them know you have been dispossessed. and give them details. a lot of vulnerable people lived in the blocks and they
have been moved and some didn‘t have immediate next of kin. contacting them is really difficult for gps. so if anyone is aware if you have a friend or relative who has been moved, give their gp a call. are you worried about these people who have gone off the radar? yes, 100%, that gone off the radar? yes, 10096, that is one of biggest obstacles we have faced is first working out who is deceased and who is alive and who is alive how we contact them. we came up alive how we contact them. we came up with a list of people resident in the tower and we rang them to do comfort calls. a man had changed his number, we can‘t write to him, we have to wait for them to come into the surgery and we with mark them safe. but we have a raft of support to share, for social services and
housing and mental health line, to give that to patients, we need to be able to contact them. . 0ne obstacle has been in getting that information. so maybe if we could work together. how many former residents have you been able to speak to and help? at the moment, i‘m seeing about ten regularly either by telephone or a lot as well, the patients were in a deprived area of london, the tower resident were quite deprived and they have already a higher burden of psychological and physical problems and their access of help, there is more obstacles. 0n and their access of help, there is more obstacles. on a good day they may not engage with the gp as much, now they have had a tragedy and they have been displaced, we are trying
tob have been displaced, we are trying to b flexible and offer telephone consultations and a lot of gps in the area, we are aware sometimes getting a gp appointment can be difficult, we have adviced is another tip is that most gps in the area will offer a walk in service if you‘re a dispossessed patient. you need to make sure you mention that. if they say they‘re booked, mention i‘m a patient that had to move home and you will almost certainly be seen on and you will almost certainly be seen on the same day. this must have tested you like nothing you have encountered? yes it has been difficult. my training, i have been a doctor almost ten years, i have never been exposed to this kind of catastrophe, it doesn‘t come with a text book so, it about testing and the human element, everyone feels it, you feel such empathy for these people to have such a thing happen, one thing we learn as a doctor is
how your professional empathy is different to how you may feel if somebody were your sibling. you can show come passion, but that still a allow yos tow function and —— allow yos s you to work and i have been able to offer people a service and help them in the situation.” able to offer people a service and help them in the situation. i know that, obviously, the work you do does take you down the difficult path and you have sort of, channel ina path and you have sort of, channel in a different drebs to try to —— direction. i know the chat has been serious and i have come across as earnest. but i‘m a comedian as well andi earnest. but i‘m a comedian as well and i took to comedy, because i found myjob was intense and stressful a nd found myjob was intense and stressful and i needed a outlet. my london debut is tonight. i didn‘t know whether it was appropriate, i discussed it with the practice and
my family discussed it with the practice and myfamily and discussed it with the practice and my family and we decided dark times need some happiness too. i will do the show tonight and i will give 100% of the profits to the fund and also i have offered some free tickets to anyone who has had hardship or done well or volunteered andi hardship or done well or volunteered and i contacted the ambulance and fire service. if anybody knows somebody who will benefit, contact me through social media and i will extend a free ticket. do you draw on your work for material? yes. it is about... dark humour? it is light—hearted about the funny side of bag doctor, but i don‘t breach any confidentiality and it is about common things people do. like? like you know, men over exposing them to show their doctor their bits. little
kids crying. just fun things. good luck with that. thank you for coming? in. still to come — president trump gets his way, sort of — a modified ban on travellers from six mainly muslim nations finally comes into forceand his latest tweet insults. the uptake for cervical screening in the uk is falling year on year. a study by cancer research uk suggests that more than a quarter of women who are overdue a smear test are unaware there is any nhs screening. about half of those due a test said they were putting it off. these were mainly between 25 and 34. yet those women most at risk of cervical cancer are between 25 and 29. now let‘s speak to beckii mallett who‘s 26 and ignored cervical screening letters. she‘sjoining us from boston in lincolnshire. we can also speak to lucy maxwell whose mother died of cervical
cancer when she was nine. thank you both very much. lucy, your mother dying when you were just nine of cervical cancer will have made you aware of the importance of testing, what is your view of that? well, i‘m often asked did she miss her smears, the answer is he didn‘t live long enough for me to ask. i assume she did, by the time her cancer was found it was very advanced. your smear is not to find cancer, but to look for early signs, the precancer cells that can be treated effectively and we can stop the cancer in its tracks. my mother‘s death resulted in my father
setting up a cancer trust, which i‘m on the board and so i‘m a trustee and we do work trying to keep people informed as to why it is important to show up when you‘re invited, what the experience will be like, try and put people at ease. if everybody took up testing, are you saying nobody need die of kerveical cancer —— cervical cancer. nobody need die of kerveical cancer -- cervical cancer. we we can't that, but we know we can prevent the cancer. it is preventing the cancer before it reaches that stage. but we know that screening prevents thousands of deaths a year. there is research to show that. becky, you're 26 and you‘re joining research to show that. becky, you're 26 and you‘rejoining us research to show that. becky, you're 26 and you‘re joining us from a hospital car park, because you‘re there for a test, having discovered that i you did have about normal cells. you found that out having not
gone for screening for some time. tell us what your situation has been. yes, so a few years ago i did suffer from a lot of pelvic pains, which i did go for a cervical screening, which the test came back clear. that was procedure for me was quite uncomfortable, quite painful. sol quite uncomfortable, quite painful. so i sort of... tried to put off the other cervical screening, when i got a letter, i ignored the letters. i must have ignored about 15 to 20 letters. for me, because i found the la st letters. for me, because i found the last procedure quite uncomfortable for me. but ijust decided to go and, yes, they found low grade about normal cells and the hpv infection.
i have come to go for another cervical screening to make sure how serious it is. you say obviously that you ignored the letters, having done that, and then gone and then discovered you have the about normal cells, how tufl about the —— do you feel about the fact you waited so long? when i got the letter to say that they had found about normal cells, to be fair i did break down in tears. i think i wasjust, quite quite mad at myself for leaving it too long. but i was also grateful that i had been, because i would have shuddered to think what situation i would have put myself in ifi situation i would have put myself in if i ignored it for another two years or so. if i ignored it for another two years or so. so i'm pleased. is it sort of the early stage of abnormal cells, we were hearing lucy saying
it is treatable if xaugt early on. —— caught early on. it is treatable if xaugt early on. -- caught early on. yes the letter explained it was low grade about normal cells, and when they find the low grade abnormal cells that is whoo enthink test for the ppv infection. they find you have the hpv they transfer you to the gynaecologist at the hospital and here where i'm just about to go now, they will have just another look to see they will have just another look to see how serious it is and then if they find that i have abnormal cells, they will then... do a little laider treatment to get —— laser treatment and they should be able to treatment and they should be able to treat it today if they find it is serious though. let‘s hope it all goes well for you.
is that a typical story, people don‘t concern about concerns about how uncomfortable it might be, how painful the processes? absolutely, we put it off all the time, i put it off because i was embarrassed, i thought it would be painful. we a lwa ys thought it would be painful. we always try and say, you know, absolutely it is not the most pleasa nt absolutely it is not the most pleasant thing in the world but it ta kes pleasant thing in the world but it takes five minutes and it could honestly save your life. we see women come through the charity, brilliant women who have survived cervical cancer who say there is no question they would be dead if they had not shown up for that smear test at that time. timing is crucial. so please go if you are invited. it is so please go if you are invited. it is so important as we have just heard, particularly because it can be caught at the critical, early—stage and dealt with very effectively. thank you forjoining us. we wish you the best with what happens at
the hospital today, thank you. still to come. the latest attempts to restore the power sharing executive in northern ireland fails. we look at what obstacles are in the path preventing it from happening. sexism in the dance music industry. the ten richest djs are named and none of them are women so why are there so few females at the top? we speak to two women working in the business. annita is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the day‘s news. good morning. cladding fitted to grenfell tower during its refurbishment was changed to a version which cost nearly £300,000 less, documents seen by the bbc have revealed. at least 80 people were killed when the tower block in west london was destroyed by fire two weeks ago. the documents show officials originally chose a zinc cladding but then decided upon a less fire retardant aluminium version. kensington and chelsea council says safety would not have been compromised to manage budgets.
a council meeting to discuss the tragedy was called off last night within minutes of starting after a row broke out over the attendance of members of the public and the press. the council halted the meeting, claiming it would prejudice the forthcoming public inquiry but london mayor sadiq khan said the council‘s decision beggars belief. the parents of ten—month—old charlie gard, who fought an unsuccessful legal battle to take him to america for experimental treatment, say he will stop receiving life support today. charlie has a rare genetic condition and brain damage. doctors at great 0rmond street hospital said the us treatment would not help him. chris gard and connie yates say they‘ve now been told they will not be able to take their son home to die. an investigation by chemical weapons inspectors has concluded that the banned nerve agent sarin was used in an attack on a rebel—held town in northern syria in april. more than 80 people were killed.
the attack prompted the united states to launch a cruise missile strike on a syrian government air base. the foreign secretary borisjohnson said he had no doubt syrian president bashar al—assad‘s forces were involved in the chemical attack. the german parliament has voted to legalise same—sex marriage. the bill will grant gay and lesbian couples full marital rights, including child adoption. it had been backed by most of germany‘s political parties although it was opposed by conservative allies of chancellor merkel. she changed her mind to allow a free vote. that‘s a summary of the bbc news. more on bbc newsroom live at 11am. time for a sports update. breaking news and good news for cricket fans, the bbc has secured free to air digital cricket fans, the bbc has secured free to airdigitaland cricket fans, the bbc has secured free to air digital and radio rights packages from the ecb which means live cricket will return to the bbc for the first time in 21 years. we
will show highlights of all england matches as well as two t20 games in full. we will have ten live matches from the new t20 club competition as well. and there will be up to nine live women‘s fixtures but england test match cricket will stay on paid subscription services in the 2020-2024 subscription services in the 2020—2024 period. number one seed andy murray will face a qualifier lucky loser in the first round of wimbledon. he has been drawn in the same half as french open champion rafa nadal which means they could meet in the semifinals this year. johanna konta beat the world number one angelique kerber yesterday despite taking a heavy fall during the match. she will play karolina pliskova in the semifinal at eastbourne later and fellow briton heather watson is also through to the last four and will face caroline wozniacki at 11am. the british and irish lions coach andy farrell says it is do or die ahead of the second test against new zealand tomorrow morning. defeat in wellington would mean the all blacks will take this
varies. more in user life after 11 o‘clock. —— take the series. parts of president trump‘s ban on travellers from six mainly muslim countries have come into force. the restriction, which began at 1am this morning, means that refugees and people from six named countries without close family or business relationships in the us could be denied visas and barred entry. grandparents, aunts, uncles, nephews and nieces are not considered to be "bona fide" relations. the rules apply to people in iran, libya, syria, somalia, sudan and yemen. i spoke to a political commentator and a broadcaster and republican activist earlier. the travel ban is now back in place. it‘s already being challenged by hawaii. what are your thoughts on this ban now? well, the supreme court has actually ruled a partial... that donald trump can actually implement part of the ban, and so they are actually moving full steam ahead. and this is pretty amazing because when you think about it, there have been a number of courts
that have already shot this down. so i‘m sure the thinking was that the supreme court, if they actually decided to take this up, would actually simply strike it down. no one actually thought that they would actually allow donald trump to actually implement parts of the ban until they decide to take it up, and they won‘t take it up until the next session of the supreme court, which is in the fall, so that‘s around 0ctober. so the president is actually moving full steam ahead with this, and i think it‘s only going to be that much more troubling because it could take us back to a place where you see the united states‘ standing in the world diminish, much like what took place during the iraq war, where much of the world had a very diminished view of the united states because, for many, the united states has always been that beacon, a place where the voiceless, the helpless can come. and now it looks as though we are turning people away for no other reason than geography. and i think that‘s something
that‘s deeply troubling, charlie wolf, the president says that the reason for this ban is to make the usa safer place. do you believe it will? i think it will. i think he has the right as commander—in—chief to make that decision, and that's what i'm more concerned about. i think there's a couple of things here. first off, i think the lower courts were wrong and they were judging him on personality and, for instance, one of the judges based it on comments he made on the campaign trail. and that's not the voicing policy. and the other thing that's important, more so than our standing in the world, which i think is still safe, is there's always been sort of an elasticity between the three branches of government. and it's important notjust for mr trump but for future presidents that he has that power, that it's not taken away, when it comes to securing the nation. he is the commander—in—chief, and when we have judges diminishing that power, that sets a very dangerous precedent.
;7e;;2 i62§f>j§isl§i§uzsy3~gw . .. ,,. . m and what their religion is. i don't think it's based on their religion. when he said, for instance, after san bernardino, when he said, i think it was, muslim countries, if i had been advising him on communications i would have said from specific countries where there was a problem. and also, let's not forget, these are not countries that he himself picked. these were classified by the 0bama administration and the simple fact eric ham, what about the point that these are countries that are being targeted under this ban that were identified under president 0bama? that‘s simply not true. we do know that president 0bama did have a temporary ban in place for iraq, and it did not expand to the countries that donald trump has actually laid out for his travel ban. these are countries that are actually decided upon by the trump administration, that he implemented. and what was so striking
about the ban is there were some countries, particularly saudi arabia, that was left off. because when you look at where the 9/11 attackers came from, they all came from saudi arabia. we know that saudi arabia is the biggest exporter of wahhabiism, which is seen as an extreme version of islam. that‘s a country that has not added to the ban, and i think many people look at this ban in particular and say these are countries where the president does not have any business interests. i just want to move on to something else that emerged from donald trump, and it‘s a personal attack on a television host in the us. and it‘s not the first time he‘s made personal comments about women in particular. it‘s a host called mika brzezinski, on twitter he described her as bleeding badly from a face—lift. what do you each think about these comments by donald trump,
the way that he does take people on in very personal terms? charlie wolf? i can't comment so much on this particular incident because i haven't really seen much of it here in london yet. when we elected the man, everybody knew, it was totally clear, that he is a man who's not been a president or not been in politics, he's a rough and tumble sort of guy. he's a property developer. he himself said, if you attack me, i come back ten times harder. if people are surprised, you know, i'm surprised that they are surprised. is it edifying, though, for a president to be doing it? i'll leave that to the individual to decide for themselves. i think it speaks pretty much. but we know what we're getting. the press have been treating him in the same respect, you know? they've been disparaging him. so i think if you want to play the game, you know, if you give
you've got to be able to take. eric ham? if i could just push back, no, mrwolf, this is actually not a game. this is the presidency of the united states. and many people look at the presidency as the most powerful office in the free world. and so, as a result of that, i think many have high expectations of the person who holds the office because you‘re encapsulating an entire nation, an entire country. and what the president did was he attacked a reporter and he attacked her in very personal, very strident and very visceral terms. and we‘ve seen him do this as a candidate, but this is the first time that we‘ve actually seen him do this in the office. and i think his own party has come after him in very aggressive terms, because it‘s clearly un—beholding of what we expect of our president of the united states. i agree with you, but i think we knew going in that this was not like past presidents. you know, this is donald trump,
and i think the people that elected him this time around weren't so interested necessarily in... that's not necessarily a constitutional requirement, obviously. they wanted somebody who can fix the economy, that's what they're expecting, not to... -- not to play nice nice with the press. politics in northern ireland is never simple. but in recent weeks, it seems to have become unusually complex. yesterday, talks between sinn fein — who want northern ireland to be part of the irish republic, and the dup who want it to remain a part of the uk — failed to restore the so—called power sharing executive, under which the two communities share key posts in the devolved government. meanwhile, the dup havejust agreed to support theresa may and the conservative government at westminster in exchange for a £1 billion package of spending in northern ireland. and this is all against the backdrop of brexit — which threatens to see a hard border between the north and the south re—imposed. to help unpick all of this,
we have in the studio ruth dudley edwards. she‘s an irish historian and author. and from the bbc studio in belfast — eamonn mallie — an author and journalist who has been reporting on northern ireland and its politics for decades. thank you forjoining us. the deadline for agreement has been extended until monday. do you think thatis extended until monday. do you think that is going to be enough time to unlock this? welcome to everybody in london and throughout the uk. i doubt if we can have a resolution in the short term. there are mountains to be climbed. the gaps are so tremendous between the two sides. i would be suspicious whether there‘s any possibility of a resolution in the next 48 hours. it is highly unlikely. given the dup will not be negotiating sunday, a custom and practice of the party. i think we are ina
practice of the party. i think we are in a deadlock here. if there is not agreement, then what? direct rule, probably, for a not agreement, then what? direct rule, probably, fora time, some measure of it. i agree with eamon, i can't see how they will resolve it. from my perspective, i think the problem was sinn fein did not want the executive to come back and so made an enormous number of demands that they knew the dup couldn't actually do. but then when the money happened, the £1 billion, they want to have a part in influencing how it is spent, how do they actually back down and save face? it is not easy. but as you say, the £1 billion if they want to decide how it is spent, they want to decide how it is spent, they need to unlock this? yes, but they need to unlock this? yes, but they don't want to disillusion their supporters. so how do those two issues get worked together, eamon? i know this billion pound and the new love affair between the dup and theresa may, i know it is an
irritant, but let‘s be realistic, the problems obtaining now would be here regardless. there is such a gulf over the questions, or the issue of brexit, sinn fein and the nationalists want to stay in europe. the dup voted to leave. the majority voted to stay. but the issues dealing with the past and things like same sex marriage, we have an instrument in government here, a veto, whereby the dup has used this instrument this veto to block for example any discussion coming forth regarding same sex marriage. so the issues are there regardless of the relationship with the tories. that isa relationship with the tories. that is a mere add on. if case you thought there were not enough come
plications, if there was an election the dup are likely to do better. why is that because of the deal? yes and because they did badly in the last assembly election, because there was a lot of bad blood. this time they would have done better and have the veto. doesn't that put more pressure on sinn fein to try to get to ensure that those are two scenarios that don‘t happen? that those are two scenarios that don't happen? yes it is hard to see how they can cross that gulf. it is so how they can cross that gulf. it is so huge. there is no trust between them ofany so huge. there is no trust between them of any kind. and they have become the two big party and destroyed the middle ground. they have done it before obviously. yes but the gulf is wider. why do you think it is wider now? just huge mistrust and a lot of issues that
are unresolvable. the issue around the irish language. sinn fein want ant irish language act and from the point of view of unionism and others would involve enormous wasteful expense. 0.02% of people speak irish at home. but this would involve interpreters in the courts, 10% of recruits in public service being irish—speaking and so on. massively. but it is very hard for them to row back on it. because they have made it an issue of cultural respect. i don't know how you get out of it. we will have to wait and see, thank you both very much. the dance music industry is worth $7.4 billion dollars. last year, forbes magazine‘s top 10 richest djs were all men — with calvin harris topping the list for the fourth year in a row.
which begs the question, why are there so few females at the top? gender discrimination took centre stage at this year‘s ibiza‘s international music summit, where co—founder pete tong and many other leading figures gathered to debate how to change that tune. quick warning — there are some flashing images in this piece. i was sexually assaulted by a promoter. i had a co—worker who called me his secretary, even though i was the head of department. i never made more than $100 as a dj until i think i was 33 years old. i don‘t know a single woman in dance music who has not experienced some version of this, from unwanted attention from fans, touching, that kind of stuff. if there is one of me, there have to be thousands of others. i don't think women want to be
in positions of influence through tokenism. you know, they want to be in positions of influence by being dangled. at 17, i came over with £100 in my pocket and two flight cases of vinyl. i was the first female resident dj in ibiza. 25 years later, there's a lot more women that have come on the scene. it's still a still much lower amount of females that are around, or headlining. if you look at the top dj 100, i think there was two, three females in that. there aren‘t many women represented in dance music publishing, definitely not as many women as men bust up but i believe that i got myjob because i was the best for it — not because i was a woman, but because i was the most deserving. i had a meeting and this guy
didn't even look at me or acknowledge me, and yeah, it's difficult, it's definitely difficult. but it's something i feel very passionate about that needs to change. it‘s time to stop talking about it. it‘s time to move into the action phase. but we also need to see men get active in this. there are some very talented women out there, but being someone who is quite up in electronic music, i understand that it's a boys' club. it's definitely a lot better when it's a mixture of people, you know, whether it's ethnicity or gender, you know, race and gender, it's better for everyone to be mixed. we created this system of support that women didn‘t really have before. menus to have their gents clubs or their golf clubs or their whisky bars, women don‘t really
have these physical spaces, and so i decided to create a digital one. we're talking about mental health issues and male and women roles in the business. the whole thing around diversity's probably been a more intense debate over the last couple of years. i think it‘s important to talk about it and be transparent about it, because unless we do, then it‘s going to continue to be the cost of doing business, and it should not be. it‘s too high a cost to pay. we‘re joined by sybil bell, who is the founder of independent venue week — championing small music venues around the country. but she also set up and ran an event called yes she can — aimed at young women who want to learn about the different music careers. and also mandy parnell who is a music producer and also mentors women in the industry. thank you for coming in. it is weird isn‘t it? thank you for coming in. it is weird isn't it? it thank you for coming in. it is weird isn‘t it? it is not like it is an
old fashioned or a traditional area, it‘s modern, out there, why is it that women don‘t seem to be punching through? i don't know, it is a tricky one, it almost seems ironic that we need to have this discussion and there are groups championing women and the event we put on to encourage young women to learn about the music industry, it almost feels like we should haven‘t those discussions. why do you think there is not parity. i think we need to aim younger. i was at the music week and met some women from finland that have an initiative aiming at children in primary school, teaching them about music and production and recording music. sol them about music and production and recording music. so i think a lot of
our initiatives are aimed at teenagers, when they're doing their options or later when they're coming into college, which the foundations probably's been set by the choices. do you think it is that young girls are choosing, are not choosing it rather than once people have chosen it being discriminated against?” think so yes, they don't realise it isa think so yes, they don't realise it is a choice early enough. maybe from conditioning, through systems, through being at home. yeah, i think it's more you know we need to aim younger so it's more you know we need to aim younger so they realise it is a choice. in all sciences. do you think there is discrimination within the industry as well or is it not that? i think there isjust the industry as well or is it not that? i think there is just from the industry as well or is it not that? i think there isjust from the film you showed, there are examples where women are discriminated against. it is a tough one, my personal experience has been very little of that and in fact there have been a number of men who have been strong champions of women in
the business. so it is a difficult one and! the business. so it is a difficult one and i guess it depends on which pa rt one and i guess it depends on which part of business you‘re in. but it does xus. —— xus. i think in —— exist. i think men feel entitlement and women are used to grafting and it isa and women are used to grafting and it is a shame we have to be overtly speaking up on behalf of women to get that level. i think manned yip‘s right —— mandy‘s right and the experience we have had is the younger you get, the earlier you can speak to younger you get, the earlier you can speakto girls, younger you get, the earlier you can speak to girls, giving them options and understanding that is a choice is empowering. 0ur and understanding that is a choice is empowering. our project was part ofa campaign is empowering. our project was part of a campaign and we had girls from sunderland and hull and london and we we re sunderland and hull and london and we were talking about production, live production and studio production and we probably went too deep into that, some didn‘t know a number of careers even existed, even they were technical roles. and i
think the more we can do to educate young girls, music‘s coming out of a lot of curriculum in schools that is a dayser the. it should be —— that isa a dayser the. it should be —— that is a disaster. there are so many women in music, female artists, why is this area not, that girls are not thinking about it as a natural area. we have a prs and they have got an initiative called women make music to raise women song writers, because they don't have that many, but we have lots of women in the public eye, but behind the scenes, say in engineering we have managed to raise it and the mp6 are raising their membership, but were talking to six to, to what? with one group 28%. membership, but were talking to six to, to what? with one group 2896. 2896 for independent venue week, we work with venues around the country and
28% of the people who own or manage the venues are women. that is the strongest statistic we have of women ina sense strongest statistic we have of women in a sense in these roles in these technical roles. have you come across women being held back, discrimination? i don't know whether i have heard much around it. the women, i mentor a i have heard much around it. the women, i mentora lot i have heard much around it. the women, i mentor a lot of women and they have made a choice to do this. so it is more about empowering them not to be intimidated, in any way, to, yes yeah, to be strong in what they‘re doing and not play the victim if that makes the sense. it is easy to fly the flag and say, it‘s because i‘m a woman when you come across ignorant women,. it‘s because i‘m a woman when you come across ignorant women, .” it‘s because i‘m a woman when you come across ignorant women,. i don't think a lot of us have had victimisation because we're women, i
wouldn't say i have, but i have been in the industry 33 years. thank you both very much. have a good weekend. thank you for your company today. have a good day. bbc newsroom live is coming up next. good morning, after the wet conditions of the last few days, things are improving as we go through today and into the weekend. this is the recent radar picture, you can see we have rain in south—west england, wales and scotla nd south—west england, wales and scotland and not a great deal is going to change as the day goes on. we still have some patchy rain and drizzle across the northern and western areas. some heavy showers in the south—east. elsewhere cloudy.
and some patchy rain and temperatures about 14 to 16 degrees. but feeling warm in the south—east of england. temperatures up to 23. tonight we will see more persistent rain moving through the north—east into east anglia. but that will move away as we go into saturday. you can see for many a dry day with sunny spells. more rain coming into the north—west of scotland and northern ireland and the top temperatures up to 24 in the south—east. this is bbc news, and these are the top stories developing at 11.
cladding fitted to grenfell tower during its refurbishment was changed to a cheaper version, documents seen by the bbc suggest. a council meeting to discuss the tragedy was called off last night within minutes of starting after a row broke out over the attendance of members of the public and press. an absolute fiasco, this is why i'm calling for your resignation, not because of what happened with the fire but the sheer and ongoing incompetence that this council has shown ever since it happened. the parents of ten—month—old charlie gard, who fought an unsuccessful legal battle to take him to america for experimental treatment, say he will stop receiving life support today.