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tv   Newsnight  BBC News  June 30, 2017 11:15pm-11:45pm BST

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flammable, is you can put that material into a furnace, effectively, in the configuration you want to use it to see if it holds up. but there are other routes, one is a desktop test. you say, you have done a properfire test in a laboratory, i want to do something similar to that, so i'll get an engineer to say what you are proposing is the same as that over there. what we discovered over the last few weeks is that the desktop tests are used more widely than anyone respectable or responsible thought and there are serious problems with the quality. we think they are widespread. we have managed to get hold of a couple of things that are very secretive. impossible to get hold of. these are documents. we managed to get hold of two produced by a company. they relate to using combustible insulation like a grenfell tower with aluminium composite panels on the outside like the grenfell tower.
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they relate to panels of a higher quality than grenfell but the same sort of design. the thing about the panels, is that they behave oddly in a fire. it is two bits of aluminium around the core of a substance. some have plastic inside? some do. in the fire the aluminium can expose what is on the inside. so in a fire that is dangerous. so aluminium composite panels behave in an unusual way. we have two of the examples and a quote here. it shows that they say, they believe that the panels, if tested would believe the same as a test that they conducted with ceramic tiles. aluminium composite panels do not behave in a fire in a similar way to ceramic tiles. the documents are handed over to a building inspector, and on the basis of them say that you have done
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the work, tick. we know that for example, this research was used in portsmouth in unite student accommodation. this is justifying stuff going on this buildings. we spoke to people who did not believe that this was being used. but this is how some of this stuff is on the buildings. what are the implications tonight? we have to say that the unite students who own that building in portsmouth says it has a large number of fire safety measures, they were open with us, doing routine fire testing and taken up the government's offer to do free testing of the cladding. they were open with us. kingspan who make the insulation, they paid for the reports, they paid the engineers to produce the reports so that the insulation is used in the context.
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and said that they always get desktop studies from the uk's most respected fire inspecting consultancis, and they are confident that they are not compromised. but another company, exova, refused to comment throughout on the basis of client confidentiality. we have some of the reports but they are yet to respond for comment. keep going. thank you, chris. the brutal killing in pakistan of mashal kahn exposes deep divisions in the country, and puts pressure on british imams to distance themselves from the country's blasphemy laws, and the way they are used to legitimise violence. a brilliant student, mashal, was brutally murdered by a mob on a university campus in pakistan earlier this year after he was accused of blasphemy. the killing has caused widespread outrage and has even led to calls to change the country's strict blasphemy laws. who was he and why was he murdered? secunder kermani investigates. a horrific lynching captured
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on camera on a university campus. the victim is a star student. the mob, though, think he's a blasphemer. this was mashal khan's room, where he tried to hide from the mob. they found him here. they kicked him, they beat him, they hit him with sticks and they shot him. the issue of blasphemy has long divided pakistani society. and some hope this case could finally lead to some reform. but others are deadly opposed to that. this is the village of zaida in pakistan's northern khyber pakhtunkhwa province. it's where mashal khan grew up. and it's where his family still live. mashal was an outstanding journalism student with an interest in left—wing politics.
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abdul wali khan university is one of pakistan's newest institutions, with a student population of over 12,000. it is just an hour's drive away from mashal‘s village. the campus has been closed since mashal‘s murder. 0ver there, that building is the department ofjournalism that he used to study at. 0ver there is the hostel that he lived in and it is where he died. this is him alongside abdullah, who had also been accused of blasphemy, and another journalism student. mashal would debate with more
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conservative students. he described himself as a muslim but also as a liberal. over time, debates turned to threats. he used to discuss with religious fanatics. he knew that but he used to discuss these things. and what would they talk about? what were the discussions about? about islam and religion. blasphemy allegations are often used in pakistan as a way to settle personal feuds. mashal‘s father believes this video of him criticising alleged corruption in the university a few days before his death led to the conspiracy against him. police have also collected evidence suggesting student politicians,
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jealous of mashal‘s influence, wanted him out of the university. it is hard to know what of that is true. what we do know is that most of those who took part in the violence did believe mashal was a blasphemer. i think at one time the notion was, that if somebody wanted to get somebody killed, they will go hire what are known as target killers, guns for hire. mercenaries. now, this guy committed blasphemy. he will either be killed or forced to leave the country. the day of the lynching, it seems, began like any other. mashal apparently had no idea what was about to happen. a group of students demanded to see the lecturers, accusing mashal and two of his friends of having committed blasphemy. as the mob continued to grow,
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mashal was frantically texting his friends. "they are falsely saying i insulted the prophet". his friend replies, "mashal, where are you?" mashal never replied. then the mob made their way to mashal‘s hostel. there, they found him hiding in his room on the second floor. here is his room. it is still in the same condition. it is kind of incredible. i came here the day after the murders. now, over a month, and nothing has changed. these are the bloodstains where it seems the authorities think that mashal was lined up against the wall and shot. at least two eyewitnesses that i have spoken to say that after he was shot he was still alive and they tried to carry his body back down the stairs. to try to get him some help because after the shots rang out, the mob dispersed and they were able to try and rescue him. but when they got to the bottom
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of these stairs, the mob had reassembled and they managed to grab his body back. from this point, mashal‘s last moments are captured on mobile phones. his fellow students beat him as he lay dying. the videos were instantly shared across pakistan. their brutality shocked the nation. mashal was eventually dragged outside. even long after he was dead, they continued beating his body. police were present but were either unable or unwilling to stop them. dozens of mashal‘s fellow students who appeared in the videos of the killings have been arrested. some were members of religious student organisations. 0thers, left—wing ones. i wanted to understand what was behind their brutality. wajahat is not accused of having beaten mashal but of helping incite the attacks by accusing him
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of blasphemy in front of a group of other students. we have got hold of a letter written by wajahat to a number of religious scholars he is effectively encouraging to support the killers of mashal khan. and in it, he goes into a lot more detail about the alleged blasphemy that mashal was committing. he talks about one conversation in particular that he had with mashal about adam and eve in which mashal is saying, why is incest forbidden in islam if adam and eve's children would have had incestuous relationships with each other for mankind to exist? mashal‘s killers have their sympathisers. this was a rallyjust weeks after the murder, calling mashal a blasphemer. it was addressed by a number of former mps, including this man, a leading localfigure
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in an islamist party. whatever he might, or is alleged to have said, nothing canjustify killing someone, and especially not in that way. i want to ask him about the supposedly blasphemous comments. after the death, the family are hosting a memorial. a rally this large is unprecedented
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in pakistan. most pakistani 's, religious or not, are sympathetic to this case. they believe he was wrongly accused, and that none of the political parties are talking about changing the blasphemy law. the law does have deep popular support in many quarters. mashal‘s family are torn between hoping that his death could lead to a more open, tolerant society and worrying alleged failings by the police and the university could be covered up. you can see a longer version of secunder kermani's film
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on our world on the bbc news channel at 9.30pm on sunday night and, of course, on the iplayer. we'rejoined by haras rafiq, who is the chief executive of the counter—extremism organisation quilliam international. what is your reaction to that film and what happened? i have seen some of this before and this is the tip of the iceberg, since 1987 thousands of people have been accused of blasphemy and charged and at least 65 of them have not made it to court. in the case of accusing someone of blasphemy, has that been a cover in many ways to attack them? 0bviously lynching is not allowed, but has that been a cover because he expressed
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left—wing views or is it a straight blasphemy accusation? if you look at the blasphemy laws, at some stage you do not need witnesses. at the top end, the long sentences somebody to death, —— where the law sentences somebody to death, then you need witnesses and what we have seen is instances where people have used it to settle scores but more than that, there has been a deep salif—isation of the normally very tolerant versions of islam and people are believing that the law gives them the opportunity to behave that way. how does that correspond to attitudes here and what the imams are saying here? this is the most recent one and there was a case before this were a politician was actually killed for daring to challenge reform of the blasphemy law, killed by his bodyguard, who was from the moderate tradition. moderate yet conservative, moderate in every other way when it comes to
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islamism and terrorism of the largest mosques in the country. are you suggesting that there would be a situation where what happened to mashal would be condoned here? it was, the killing of somebody because they dare to challenge blasphemy laws was condoned and by imams... interestingly, some imams will be very vociferous about this but do you think that people still fear speaking out, even to say that blasphemy law should be changed? we have been talking about repealing the blasphemy law in pakistan because it is not fit for purpose, it is not islamic, it was brought there by the british empire. why is it so important for people here to relate to the blasphemy law?
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and the overwhelming §§i8f52§55§5¥f§§ e§ei§¥§§. they control the imams, who have been supporting the blasphemy law there and the killers still control a lot of mosques in this country and the largest mosque outside of you suggest there is no appetite amongst imams to speak out? the problem is not the appetite, it can be dangerous. if you look at before finsbury park, the last three high—profile killings in this country were done by other muslims because you were considered non—muslim enough, glasgow, rochdale and london. it can be dangerous
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as well but above that, there is a tradition, but i come from, where the majority there is a tradition, that i come from, where the majority of muslims in this country who want everything else are moderate but on this issue still support the blasphemy law. we have no idea what the attitude is in the mosque you are talking about but thank you very much forjoining us. it has taken pressure from downing street and nearly two weeks of condemnation but finally today the leader of kensington and chelsea council has resigned over the grenfell tower tragedy. in a statement, nicholas paget—brown said he accepted his share of responsibility for the perceived failings of the authority. the latest of those was his refusal to let the local residents and the press into a council meeting last night... then, when a court order overruled his decision, he shut down the meeting. he has faced a barrage of criticism since the night of the fire, criticism which came from all sides, not least about the council's chaotic response and his refusal
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to admit they could not cope. i have to accept my share of responsibility for these perceived failings. in particular, my decision to accept legal advice that i should not compromise the public enquiry by having an open discussion in public yesterday has itself become a political story. i therefore decided to step down as leader of the council. almost immediately after paget—brown stepped down, the deputy leader of the council also resigned and, earlier today, robert black, the chief executive of the kensington and chelsea tenant management association, announced he was stepping aside from his role in order to help the public inquiry. pilgrim tucker is a community organiser who is working with grenfell residents. quite a lot of activity today but what difference will this make to residents? hopefully, now that mr paget—brown has gone and the deputy leader has gone, we can replace them with people who are competent and care about the residents. it is the case that sadiq khan
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is denied saying that the council should be set aside and new commissioners should be put in by the government, would the residents support that? i think trust in the cabinet has gone, trust in the console and they were not confident in them years ago. they were complaining and trying to raise these this year's they were complaining and trying to raise these issues and the aftermath has been disastrous, as we can see, and new people need to be put in place. in terms of on the ground, a council workers augmented by central government civil servants, how either residents doing? are the residents doing? westminster is still struggling, there is a lack of communication, they are unclear about what is happening in the future they are still confused.
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are they all highest? they are in temporary accommodation. hotels? yes, but i know there are families in unsuitable accommodation, children sharing rooms with adults, in one room, and so on. you have worked with the residents would you talk about the fact that people actually have not been exercising their rights, is a feeling that in the past, although you have been pushing for the residents because they have serious concerns, that there is a feeling that the authorities seem to know best? those residents really tried very hard to exercise their rights and that console, two of those councillors have stepped down, those councillors did not respond and would not listen. that is a big problem with democracy and accountability. and they listened more to the private sector. do you think there is
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a democratic deficit, not least because you do not have the same system of local papers and so forth to dig stuff out? there is a democratic deficit, we also have this increasingly powerful private sector involved in local government. and councillors in this case wanted to listen to them but i think even in other areas of london, where councillors are trying to respond to residents, the private sector has too much power and we need to increase scrutiny and oversight and i think we need to diminish the role of the private sector in local government and increase regulation and start to appreciate the important things that the state and regulation can give us. that is the vehicle for us to have democracy. you talk about things that can change and it is often hard to see what good could come out of this dreadful tragedy but do you think there could be further re—engage
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meant in local politics and a different way of doing council activity? hopefully people will recognise the importance of our local governing institutions and the importance of them really being responsive to the people who have elected those people, councillors, government, locally and nationally, have a duty of care, they command a lot of resources on our behalf and it is very important that they are responsive and this is a terribly horrible example, the build—up to this went on for years with people trying to get these people to listen. these people need to step down and the whole council needs to step down. what is important that the government must start listening to residents and the public enquiry. before that, this new deadline for next week for people to get houses, what are the chances of not being met and what would happen if it is not met? i think the only thing they have assured us is more temporary accommodation so i think
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there are a lot of promises which are not being met and fluffy statements which are temporary buffers to keep people happy for now. and the really important thing is, like the residents have said so very clearly to politicians, be honest with us, treat us with the intelligence and respect that we deserve and most important is the public enquiry. do not give us false promises, we are intelligent people and we will hold you accountable. thank you very much indeed. almost immediately after paget—brown stepped down, the deputy leader the plight of animals bred and either paraded as entertainment or slaughtered for the delectation of humans has long been fertile territory for hollywood, from charlotte's web to babe and free willy. but the latest feature film to confront our insatiable carnivorous habits has been made not
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for the big screen but by netflix for our tablets and ipads, and packs a much more visceral punch. i will be joined by the director in a moment but first, a club. i will be joined by the director in a moment but first, a clip. 0kja is the new film by korean director bong joon—ho and stars an adorable giant pig—like creature called 0kja and her even more beguiling friend, mija, who grow up together in the mountains of south korea. but the big, bad american food corporation who created her in their lab come to claim her back. i'm joined by the film's co—writer, jon ronson. good evening. the film starts off very much as a lyrical fairy tale, incredibly soft, and then you get into a really visceral world where actually, a lot of dreadful things happen to this wonderful creature or potentially? who is the film for?
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i think it is finding its audience, people are watching this and loving it, the director, bong joon—ho, is so great that he can do these crazy tonal shifts, sometimes it is like a children's movie, beguiling, like fable, and then becomes dark and upsetting and is appealing to all those people although it should not be watched by young children because it does get incredibly and dark later on. it does pack a punch. is it a straightforward campaigning film or is it more nuanced about human feelings? it is not a campaigning film, what it is, most of all, i hope, is a beautifulfilm. it is enchanting and disturbing and dark and entertaining so i think we valued aesthetics over ideology. however, it is really dark and it
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ends up in a slaughterhouse for magical animals and as a consequence, a lot of people will become vegetarians! you say this is not a campaigning film but if you look at a number of otherfilms, hollywood movies, the inexorable drive is towards vegetarianism. is that what you think is the message of the film? it is not the message of the film, it is the inevitable consequence. i guess one of the messages is about cognitive dissonance. we treat ourselves into believing that the meat that we eat has nothing to do with the pets that we love but we know that pigs are just as adorable and smart as dogs, so to eat the meat you need to see inside the slaughterhouse. what is so amazing about this film is the director has made the scenes inside the slaughterhouse which most
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other directors would make grotesque, he has made it haunting and beautiful. but it is absolutely visceral, we must not shy away from that. much more so than any other of these hollywood movies. netflix has made this! what do you make of this? no one else would have. this is a $50 million movie, half of this is in korea and it ends up in incredibly dark places and no studio would have allowed bong joon—ho to do this but netflix did so and i think it is giving us freedom and money in a way that hollywood has rarely done since the great days of early martin scorcese and woody allen, bonnie and clyde. this is a golden time. in a way, this film
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celebrates direct action? yes. we have an animal liberation front in this film but they are not entirely heroic, they are stupid at times and slapstick. 0ne character is so determined not to leave our carbon footprint on the earth but he has given up eating entirely. there are very funny moments. yes, so they are not entirely heroic. the bad people in this film are not entirely bad and the goodies are not entirely good. like humans, there are grey areas. thank you very much. that's nearly all for tonight. but before we go, you won't have been able to visit a great maypole in london unless you were around in 1672. it was then that the capital's pole was blown away be a storm. it was then that the capital's pole was blown away in a storm. now a competition is underway to replace it outside
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st mary le strand. if anyone is thinking of taking on the challenge — here's some inspiration. have a good weekend. newsreel: in this festive season, coronation celebrations are the rage all over the country. here we are at elstow green, bedfordshire, where phyllis izzard drives to her throne to be crowned may queen while the people of the village turn out in force to attend this old english pastime of the countryside. coronation. the may queen of 1935 is crowned by her predecessor from 193a. cheering. hip hip! hooray! hello and welcome to sportsday with me damian johnson.
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ahead on the programme: the british and irish lions are told they need to man up to beat the all blacks in the second test and keep the series alive. andy murray insists he's fit to defend his wimbledon title next week despite limping through his practice session today. and live cricket returns to bbc television for the first time in two decades as the sport seeks to connect with a younger audience. the british and irish lions players have been told to man up for the must—win second test against new zealand tomorrow.
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