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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  July 12, 2017 12:30am-1:01am BST

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year's presidential election. he says he did not tell his father about them. the emails, which led to a meeting with a russian lawyer, show donald trumer was promised official documents that would incriminate hillary clinton. governments and private foundations have pledged more than $2 billion to family planning projects to make contraception more widely available. and this video is trending on bbc.com. the video for see you again by wiz khalifa and charlie puth has had almost three billion views. the tribute to the fast and furious film actor paul walker is now even more popular than gangnam style by psy. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news, it is time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm zeinab badawi. zimbabwe is gripped by a severe
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drought which has left a third of its 15 million people dependent on food aid. the state is running out of dollars, workers go unpaid and unemployment is very high — a dire situation that presents the opposition in the country with an opportunity in nationwide elections in 2018. my guest today is welshman ncube, who leads his own faction of the zimbabwean opposition party movement for democratic change, known as mdc—n. the main opposition parties have now formed an alliance, but can they put aside their differences and focus on defeating president mugabe and his ruling zanu—pf? welshman ncube, welcome to hardtalk.
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your new opposition alliance is moving too slowly. there are other opposition forces that are filling the vacuum? firstly, it is not moving as fast as we would want to move. the important thing is that it has been confirmed across the political spectrum that it is absolutely necessary that we should come together, that we should create a single corner which is unified to see in the regime change next year. i am happy and confident that at the end of all these processes, we will have an effective and inclusive coalition of all opposition parties who are interested in challenging
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the regime together. let me tell you what i mean. the younger generation, particularly, are very much taking up the charge at a grassroots level. social media is becoming critical. that is where the opposition lies. we have seen demonstrations becoming much more common, and they are seizing the initiative from you. it is correct that the young people are impassioned, it is correct that they are using more modern ways of communicating. things like whatsapp, facebook and twitter, they are all talking to each other and talking to us. i think that is something to be commended rather than complained of by the mainstream opposition. what is necessary is how we can put together linkages with the young people who are active on the ground, to ensure that we harness that energy and that anger
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towards the elections in 2018, so that the young people can actually vote and express themselves through the only thing which will deliver change, which is speaking out. it's more than just the means that young people are using. it is actually the personalities who have emerged on the scene as better leaders than you, perhaps. there is a young pastor who started a social media campaign against president mugabe. he is calling on zimbabweans to be the agent that change the government, he says their generation must realise that we cannot subcontract our struggle through the previous one, and we cannot mortgage it to their selfish desires. he is critical of your generation for failing to deliver. that is very understandable.
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we encourage new leaders, we encourage young people to be part of this strategy. what is important at the end of the day is that, when we get to the elections, we come together, young and old. so that we can fight from the same corner. i do not think that we should be concerned that the young people are doing what they are doing. i do not think we should complain that they have raised issues that we have not succeeded with in the past. such as relieving our country from mugabe's dictatorship. i don't think those things should unduly concern us. what should be of concern is how we can harness those energies, how we can work together, how we can agree on a common ground to get to the next election. it is very good that young people
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are doing what they are doing. work together to the extent that you may have a young person standing in the presidential elections in 2018? the pastor we spoke of has said he is toying with the idea. it is possible that he and others are toying with the idea. what i have said is important is that we must remain engaged with them as political players. we must talk to each other. we need a civil society in its various manifestations to work with us, we can collectively agree on things so that we give ourselves a realistic chance of defeating mugabe. you are saying it's a possibility the charismatic, young 39—or—1i0—year—old could be an opposition candidate in the elections? that is a distinct possibility?
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i am saying that we should talk to each other as political partners in civil society, and i am saying that the ruler of the opposition is yet to be determined, and i hope when that person is determined, they will be realistic enough to understand the capacity and be ways to defeat mugabe. not in an idealistic way. that does not sound like a ringing endorsement. the point i am trying to make is that you say yes, it does extend their hands to the young generation. more than 75% of zimbabwe's population is under 35. however, voters of that age group are only 5%. that is because they are disillusioned and are looking for alternatives. the leader of the african democratic party says, i don't see the situation changing
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because these people lack integrity. she says, we cannot have the same current players that we have, so why notjust move off the stage? the example that you are giving of mmusi maimane, of the african democratic party, theyjust signed up to join the coalition of democrats, which is in the efforts of talking to everybody to ensure that we build that all—inclusive coalition to fight the next election. what is critical at the end of the day is that we come together, that by agreement and consensus we agree on the person who should be the opposition leader
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in the forthcoming election. i do not think it should be about putting anybody off the stage, i do not think it should be the young people being impassioned, it should be a recognition that we are in special circumstances, we are in a national crisis which requires collective unity. we need the young people, we need the old people, but more importantly about the young people, in the previous elections, we have had a situation where a great number of young people are not registered to vote. our challenge for next year is to ensure that this time around, the young people get to be registered, get to buy into the political struggles, and crucially, on election day, they get to vote for the candidate and coalition. an opposition alliance that you formed a couple of months ago. it is your faction of the mdc—n
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and the veteran opposition leader, whose party is known as mdc—t. there is also another veteran who is now heading the national people's party. you have all come together. in april, you said that the understanding between you was that building blocks towards beginning to build an opposition. you are still using words like beginning, building. you should have started years ago. it is a bit late. i agree that we should have been where we are today, maybe one year or two years ago. it is better late than never. we should recognise that time is of the essence, there is less than a year to the actual proclamation of an election.
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we deserve the criticism that we have not a word with the speed and urgency that is required. but we are acting and we are moving forward. we are talking to each other. we are talking to each other on a daily basis. we have a view to complete this as early as possible. i accept no contest at all that that is late in the day, but better late than never. you said in april that you would apologise to zimbabweans for the splitting, you also said that he would bury the hatchet. what exactly was that apology for? what are the differences between you and morgan tsvangirai? because of the mdc—n, and the movement for democratic change split in 2005. that is well known.
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we disagreed on a number of things. what we are apologising for in that time, we needed to spend more time talking to each other. we needed to spend more time finding ways of remaining together and resolving those differences, rather than walking away from each other in seeking to pursue the problem from different corners. that has resulted in where we are today. that struggle did not succeed because we dissipated our energies and fought from different corners. we acknowledge that to remain united, and if we had remained united, we probably would have defeated mugabe a long time ago. thank you for clarifying that. the deputy to morgan tsvangirai, the best—known of the opposition candidates who stood in the past against mugabe, he says that his boss is a natural leader of the grand coalition.
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however, he did reveal that he has cancer. is more than perhaps to seek to lead the ground coalition? i am not a medical person to be able to speak about morgan tsvangirai's health. i have met him a number of times over the past few months, we have had very extensive discussions. i have not gotten the impression that he is in any medical state which will hinder our progress. if it is an inclusive protest and coalition, i believe it will succeed. from interactions with him, i do not share the medical concerns that some might express.
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but i am not a medical doctor. what is important is that we must keep in mind that, up until now, morgan tsvangirai is the only person who has previously defeated mugabe in an election. we must recognise that from previous elections, he has secured the highest number of votes and it is important, whatever coalition we build, to ensure that those who have supported him all along our able to continue to support the collective position that we will agree on. you are referring to the contested result in 2008? it is worth reminding you that in 2013, mugabe won 61% of the vote. morgan tsvangirai won 34% of the vote, and your faction wonjust 3%. 0ne professor said,
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despite the unreliability of the electoral watchdogs in zimbabwe, he believed that mugabe won the election. you talked about a collective view as to who should be the presidential candidate for the united opposition. who is it? you said it could be morgan tsvangirai, the representative from the national people's party said, i am going to make a bid for it as well. there is you, presumably. who will it be? we don't know who it will be. we need to agree on who it will be. what we are underlining is the importance of using objective criteria in coming to the determination of who that candidate should be and one important tool is that when we agree on that particular candidate, we must all do so unconditionally in the rally behind that candidate if we are to have a fighting chance in dislodging robert mugabe from power.
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you just summarised the 2013 result and that is what we have to reverse. can i ask, who is going to be the presidential candidate? 0ne zimbabwean analyst, maxwell saungweme says, all the cla ptrap about the coalition, the opposition coalition, harare, borders around who should lead and not what the coalition should deliver and that is the point. you are alljockeying for position, wanting to be the top person. 0n the contrary, the conversations which are taking place right now are about the details of the coalition structure, details of policy positions which the coalition should push and pursue should it win the election, they are about discussing what sort of things we will do to implement
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the unimplemented constituiton elections at the local government and parliamentary level and so forth and... but who will stand against president mugabe? the election is next year, surely we should know by know. is it you, or is itjoice mujuru, is it morgan tsvangirai, or is it another person? zeinab, i don't know it will be. i have an opinion on who it should be. can you tell us what that opinion is? discussions are ongoing. it will be inappropriate for me and in bad faith while we are talking to others to come on hardtalk and express that personal opinion. could it be you? others might find comfort in declaring themselves... could it be you?
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it could be anybody that we agree on, that is the point. if it's you, can i put to you a quote which i'm sure you must be familiar with by now. in 2012, according to wikileaks, christopher dell, then the outgoing ambassador to zimbabwe, has said that welshman ncube "has proved to be a divisive "and destructive player in the opposition ranks "and the sooner he is pushed off the stage, the better." yes, he did say that, and what is the question? so perhaps you might be too divisive a figure to be a potential candidate to stand against robert mugabe next year? zeinab, if that assessment were true, it will follow that when we agree on the candidate, it will not be a person whom the collective leadership regards as divisive. i do not accept that assessment but really, this is not about me, it is about us coming with a candidate that has
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the potential and the capacity to rally the people, to motivate the people to defeat the mugabe regime. i would rather we not personalise it and i would rather we do not pre—empt the conversations that are taking place. all i know is that we, in selecting a candidate to lead that coalition, we must choose a person, one, as you say, who will be able to unify all of us and two, a person who has sufficient support at the grassroots level to rally as many voters to our side as possible, a person that we will be able to work with post—victory to deliver change. you said you are working on a strategy and frankly, the problems besetting zimbabwe are huge. two—thirds of people in poverty,
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a quarter of the population currently need food aid. we know that national debt is approaching three times the country's gdp, the budget deficit has spiralled out of control, civil servants cannot draw their salaries from banks. the state of affairs cannot go on and you have people, seasoned observers like lloyd sachikonye, a politics lecturer at the university of zimbabwe, who says the opposition coalition is going to fail — they don't have a strategy as such to tackle all these issues. we have, of course, as an opposition, come to be criticised a great deal by academics, by intellectuals, by social commentators, et cetera, and i already say much of that criticism is merited, but what is important is to recognise that we realise that the challenges that we face are immense.
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that the national crisis is deep. that the country will only sink deeper into this quagmire if we do not deliver change in 2018. we are talking to each other. that we are going to develop a strategy, that we are going to do everything that we can to ensure that we motivate and remotivate people. we reach out to young people, to come out and vote in 2018. all of those things are the critical ingredients which, in my view, will deliver victory in 2018. maxwell saungweme, who's an analyst in zimbabwe, says that even without mugabe, zanu pf, in its shambolic state, will still remain in power or there will be a government of national unity of sorts in 2018 and that seems to be supported by a afrobarometer survey in may this year which says zanu pf still has an edge if elections were held tomorrow. you have a lot of catching up to do. there is a lot of catching up,
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i have no doubt about that but i do not agree that zanu pf is invincible and that it cannot be defeated. what is important is that we must recognise the things that zanu has been able to do in order to steal elections. we must come together and mitigate against all of those vote rigging strategies they have employed in the past. if we have a modicum of a fairly reasonably, violence—free election, i believe that zanu pf can be defeated. i interact with people on a daily basis. i know that all the people want is to be given a fighting chance by a united opposition in the promise that they are going
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to come out in the numbers and liberate themselves are literally from the crisis that we have. finally, one of the groups that's involved in the opposition forces, particularly amongst the younger generation, tajamuka, has been calling for monthly protests now to escalate the non—violent resistance against the government. you said you wanted to work with all opposition forces. so is that the strategy that you would support, to increase the mass protests, the demonstrations, the stay—aways from work? most definitely — have said so as mdc, as the various coalition parties, whether under the coalition of democrats, we have said so even in the bilateral conversations that we have with the npp, we have said so in the context of our in our conversations with the mdct, and we agree it is important for every
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zimbabwean, for every social movement to bring its shoulder to the wheel that way, so we can wake work collectively and press all the pressure points that will help us develop the mugabe regime come next year. welshman ncube in johannesburg, thank you very much indeed for coming on hardtalk. good morning.
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yesterday was one of those days for the southern half of the uk. yes, the covers were on the court at wimbledon. the rain was heavy at times and the umbrellas were out. it wasn't just across the south—east of england where we saw rain. further west in the south of wales it was hammering it down for a time. extensive rain in the southern half of the uk, as you can see from yesterday's radar. the brighter colours indicate heavier downpours. that rain is on the move overnight, moving southwards and eastwards. so it is the far south—east that first thing still has some rain to be had. temperatures about 111—15 degrees. a little bit lower than recently and dipping into single figures in northern scotland, so a relatively chilly start here. the rain clearing away pretty quickly. it leaves behind a fair bit of cloud in east anglia. through the m4 corridor and south of that. despite the cloud it is mostly dry. when we break up the cloud we see
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sunshine through mid—wales, the midlands, up in the northern england. and it should be a dry and bright start with sunshine for much of northern ireland and much of scotland. maybe the odd shower and some mist and cloud in scotland. the cloud we seer in southern counties will slowly move away through the morning and by the afternoon we will see a lot of dry weather and bright weather, good spells of sunshine and patchy cloud here and there. all in all a pleasant afternoon, with light wind southwest. pleasant, into the low 20s. always more fresh to the north sea coastal areas, 16—18 degrees. looks like a pretty decent day at wimbledon. it will be dry and bright, with sunshine. temperatures into the low 20s, not particularly windy. should be a full day's play. high pressure building in through wednesday. it will stick around into thursday. notice the weak weather front creeping towards the north and west. but ahead of that there's a lot of fine weather.
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some cloud building and a shower or two dotted around parts of england and wales, but most places will be fine and dry. there will be some thicker cloud into the west of scotland and some rain. for the eastern side of scotland, 18 in aberdeen. 20—211 in cardiff and london. then the weak weather front slips south thursday night, into friday. behind it we have this region of high pressure building in. so friday looks decent. it will be dry, bright for most places and not too windy either, so a pretty decent day to end to the week. i'm rico hizon in singapore. the headlines: president trump's son releases e—mails revealing he was keen to use russian information to dig the dirt on hillary clinton. democrats say the disclosure is deeply disturbing. all of the campaign denials of
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whether we knew this was going on, whether we knew this was going on, whether the russians had an involvement, whether the russians helped his campaign, obviously now have to be viewed in a completely different context. a $2 billion boost for birth control. governments pledge to promote contraception around the world. i'm babita sharma in london. also in the programme: celebrating the silk road. china hopes its trillion—dollar project will unite the country and usher in a golden age of trade.
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