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tv   Newsnight  BBC News  July 28, 2017 11:15pm-11:46pm BST

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after fu— it"ui‘ii after that report came out, hours after that report came out, reportedly resigned, donald trump announced that now. when it comes to why reince priebus is out the door, it doesn't seem like he had the ear of the president or the confidence of the president or the confidence of the president and there's one thing we know donald trump values and that is loyalty. reince priebus‘s loyalty is to his party. when it comes to donald trump, he's looking to surround himself and separate himself from politics and bring in people from the real world. first of all antony scaramucci, and now as white house chief of staff, this high—profile will go to a a—star marine general, john kelly. who will be in charge of homeland security? that is yet to be appointed. we will have to keep an eye on twitter to find that out. but when it comes to his appointment, he is cut from the same club as donald trump. he is outspoken, when he was
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in charge of guantanamo bay he let president obama know his views on that. he seems to have an excellent opinion amongst the army and much of the armed forces. the president respects much of what he has to say. he is an outspoken man and one that president donald trump seems to greatly respect. at the moment, anyway. thank you very much. time now for newsnight. to be deemed safe, cladding systems are meant to survive a ao—minute fire test. today, we learned grenfell‘s lasted just nine. 82 other buildings use a design that's similar enough to be troubling. also tonight, we're used to being on the wing to europe in our millions, but when we leave the eu, will we be forced to go into reverse, or even be grounded? if we do not have a transitional arrangement and if we are not a
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member of the eu as part of that transitional arrangement, then we have chaos. and ahead of tomorrow's first—ever relaxed prom for people with learning difficulties and sensory impairments, we'll have a live preview. good evening. in the six weeks since the fire that turned grenfell tower into a tinderbox and killed at least 80 people and injured almost as many again, there have been a variety of tests on the insulation and cladding of other buildings. there have been evacuations from high—rises, and remedial work carried out in buildings all over the country. but today the government revealed
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that the fire test on exactly the combination used in grenfell tower failed spectacularly. cladding meant to resist fire for a0 minutes in the test burned injust nine minutes. so many people never had a chance. there are also 82 other buildings with cladding similar to grenfell. here's our policy editor chris cook. we seem to have already had a lot of tests ? over the past few weeks what the government has been doing is not testing cladding, but auditing cladding and when we hear about hundreds of buildings failing tests it means the government has ascertained they are buildings where they need to work out whether they are dangerous because the thing to know, you might have non—combustible material on the side of the building that it can be safely used in combination with the right materials. so the government is running six
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huge tests where it will mock—up designs with different combinations of cladding and it works out which are safe and we started today with a combination used at grenfell. we thought we knew what happened at grenfell. the importance of doing the test on grenfell, which was not safe, is we've now ascertained that in laboratory conditions it did not work. it tells us that 82 other buildings with similar designs are flawed. by the way, 37 of them are privately owned. it also tells us that it's implausible that a developer could, following the letter of the law, could have got the stuff through under the building regulations. we've made a film to help you understand a bit more about the test. the only way to test the fire safety of a cladding design properly is to rig up your design and then try to set fire to it. last week, newsnight was permitted
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to film preparations for such a test on cladding like that used at grenfell tower. so plastic foam insulation on the inside, aluminium panels with a plastic core on the outside. we visited before the aluminium panels had been put up. so what's underneath those aluminium panels? well, first of all, the stuff under the foil here, that is the insulation. in this case, so—called pir insulation. it's a plastic foam, it's the kind of stuff that was actually used at grenfell. now, importantly, this stuff here, this yellow stuff, that's a horizontal firebreak. it's supposed to stop the fire from going horizontally across a building. these black strips here, those are intumescent verticalfirebreaks. what happens with these is that if there is a fire in this bit of insulation, they will heat up, expand and they will stop the fire from going up the building. but the thing is, both the horizontal firebreak and the vertical firebreak rely
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on the aluminium cladding on the outside, because otherwise the fire can just go around them. this really is a system that's being tested, notjust a group of individual parts. all the parts need to work. so what happened in the test? well, we weren't allowed anywhere near and the government hasn't released its footage. so here's a graph showing the temperature measured by one instrument in the cladding as the test wore on. at three minutes, the scientists noted... the colour of the panels has changed from white to dark grey. at five minutes, they observed... burning droplets. falling from the rig. at seven minutes, 15. sporadic flaming from the top of the rig. at eight minutes, 45... flaming several metres beyond the top of the rig. test terminated. to pass this test, the rig is supposed to last at least a0 minutes. this result implies the design, not poor installation or bad luck, was more likely to be to blame.
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these materials didn't meet the required standards for tall buildings. how this design got signed off is a critical question and notjust at grenfell — also in the 82 buildings that have been told that this test means their cladding designs are unsafe. chris cook. within the past few minutes, president trump has announced on twitter that he has appointed a new white house chief of staff. he's the former secretary of homeland security, john f kelly. it's not clear whether mr kelly's predecessor, reince priebus, was sacked or resigned. this follows the apparent failure last night in the senate and republican attempts to reform the health care system. joining me to unpack all this is politico's daniel lippman. good evening, within the last few minutes, cnn reports that reince priebus resigned privately yesterday.
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what do you know about what has been happening? so, yeah, there are conflicting reports on that. sources close to reince say he resigned, other white house sources said he was fired today. he was seen on air force one travelling with the president today and we do not know what happened. the broader issue is that this underscores that the white house chaos in the west wing is continuing. reince leaving the white house is not going to stop that. he was not the biggest problem in the white house. let's talk about priebus for a minute. he was the republicans' point man. a kind of insider, republican insider, in this slightly strange west wing we have now and donald trump has edged him out. was there any question that
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that had anything to do with the failure to get the affordable care vote repeals last night, which priebus was tasked with doing? i think even before the health care failure last night, reince priebus was on thin ice, because the president's advisers, in his family, they were not happy with his performance. reince priebus has promised to be an establishment figure who could get capitol hill to follow what trump wanted and even if the health care bill had passed, reince priebus would still probably be out of his job. i think reince priebus did not perform to his expectations because it's very hard to manage a white house like the one president trump has. we have a situation where it might look like steve bannon has won but yet anthony scaramucci is coruscating about steve bannon, the new communications director,
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who, according to the new yorker, had an extraordinary conversation with expletives and denigrating things to say about priebus. that came out as well. reince priebus never fully meshed with trump and scaramucci is kind of a mini trump. and is... he has been told by people close to him to quiet down his media, because generally as the communications director for the white house, you're not supposed to publicly trash fellow advisers and colleagues at work. and so scaramucci was the whole story this week and trump doesn't like being supplanted as the number one media celebrity in politics, in dc. and so i think steve bannon is safer the white house, he's not going to get fired or resign because he has a closer relationship with the president
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the reince priebus ever had. thanks very much. since wejoined the eu, we have enjoyed pretty much unfettered air travel to european union destinations — give or take a strike or storm or two. in fact, the office of national statistics reported that last year there was a record total of 14.7 million visits to spain alone by uk residents — the vast majority of these were for holidays. but when we exit the eu, if we leave the european industry and safety bodies, as seems to be the plan, we may be in for a very bumpy ride. here's our business editor helen thomas. for decades, we've been taking flight to an ever—increasing number of destinations. but as we migrate towards brexit, there are warnings of turbulence ahead. if we're not careful, could we find ourselves, well, flightless? ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon, it's a great
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pleasure to be here. the boss of ryanair has been vocal about the risks to our getaways. there is a real prospect and we need to deal with this, that there is going to be no flights between the uk and europe for a period of weeks, months, beyond march 2019. he wants the uk to stay in europe's existing open skies agreement that allows planes to fly freely. he says we're running out of time to negotiate an alternative. the industry that makes the planes has its worries, too. aeromet manufactures 16,000 fuel connectors for airbus each year. from here in rochester they go to wales to become part of wings, then on to toulouse, where the planes are assembled. the aerospace industry has some familiar concerns. it wants hassle—free trade with no tariffs or delays for complex international supply chains.
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but, there is a more fundamental problem. the safety regime that underpins everything from parts to planes, to pilots to maintenance, is european. and that has the potential to ground the industry. that safety regime is the work of the european aviation safety agency. the boss of the uk's aerospace industry body says it's vital to stay in it. we are very clear that we wish to remain a member of the european aviation safety agency and we don't believe that there is a viable alternative that can be up and running in a reasonable period of time. ads reckons it could take five to ten years and 300 extra staff to equip the uk's civil aviation authority to take over. and we may still need a transition period where we stay very
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close to the eu indeed. when we cease to be an eu member, we need to have in place a whole new set of international agreements. so, for us, the transition period is important and it's important that during that period we remain an eu member. really, it's about providing our international colleagues, particularly the us, with confidence that the new regulatory regime that we are going to operate is capable of meeting the high safety and security standards they require. the challenge is we don't know what that is going to look like. so how complicated is it to secure our freedom to fly? countries like norway or switzerland are part of the european safety agency, but outside the eu. but they also have bilateral agreements with places like the us. without a safety regime that is recognised by the rest
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of the world, the uk could find itself left on the ground. this isn'tjust general griping about the cost and disruption of brexit, it's a very specific problem. and it's not one that can be sold just by the uk and europe. it requires input from regulators around the world. by some estimates, that work could take 18 months to make sure that we can keep flying after departure from the eu. and that's even if we stay part of the european safety body. the clock is most definitely ticking. the head of america's federal aviation administration said injune that discussions with the uk government had started, but he added they were complicated and time—consuming by their very nature. and he warned... it is important to keep these time constraints in mind and to not get sidetracked into an uncomfortable
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situation in which a missed deadline results in an interruption of service. sticking with the european regulator should make these conversations simpler, but staying a member of the european safety agency. may not fly politically. the main issue is the financial contribution that would still need to be made within and into a european establishment. it is also the issue of oversight of the outer framework and the rules, which currently sits with other european institutions and predominantly the ecj. this is where aerospace's problems start to sound familiar again. an important eu body with european court ofjustice oversight, a respected european rule book that actually uk expertise has played a substantial part in devising, and a deadline to figure out what might or could take its place. if we don't have a transitional arrangement, and if we aren't
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a member of the eu as part of that transitional arrangement, then we have chaos, because we don't have a system to ensure that our products are safe and secure to fly and a regime that is acknowledged around the world. for now, the industry is in limbo, in the departure lounge, destination unknown. i'm joined now by mep jacqueline foster and by economist peter morris. good evening to the both of you. jacqueline, how can we be part of the open skies regime after we exit the eu, when it is overseen by the european court ofjustice and theresa may has made it clear she did not want to be incumbent by any ruling from the ecj. two separate issues here, open skies are service agreements,
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what the piece was about was twofold, it was about the role of the european aviation safety agency, and how we comply with the rules that are laid down there, and when we certify the goods from the aerospace manufacturers. and open skies, where we look at the airlines, is about the arrangements we will have with countries, dearly for traffic flight, to fly from the uk, both into europe and obviously to other countries around the world. yes, two separate things, but open skies, open skies are governed by the european court ofjustice, and so therefore, we are in a situation where theresa may says we will not be involved in it, you have two of i'd buy that to be part of the open skies policy. no, i think you are wrong here, we are talking about service agreements, and the european court
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of justice, the reference to the european court ofjustice, is when we are talking about compliance to the european aviation safety agency, which does not deal with air service agreements and open skies. these are two different things. they are separate bodies. the european aviation safety agency is one thing, but the open skies policy, your understanding is that it comes under the ecj. i take everything back to the customer, the customer need safe aviation and the customer needs competitive aviation, and dynamic growth of networks in europe, which is what 40 years of being involved in europe has done, brought together those two elements so that they are not separate. will be part of open skies, when we exit the eu? if there was a plan, i would be delighted to be involved in it, post—election it seems the department for transport has largely closed down communication with organisations like eraa in order to have discussions about where you are going,
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the only doors for discussion open appear to be doors in brussels. we will not automatically be a member of the safety agency, after eu exit, is that correct? that is my understanding and that is the understanding of the airlines as well. but it is inevitably‘s interests. i have got to challenge him on the is making. it is in everybody‘s interests to carry on as tariff free as possible, lots of other european countries want it to happen, it is not a case of what them wanting to lock us out. we have had 260 millionjourneys last year, which depend upon this freedom and liberalisation. at the same time, you have got to recognise that the number of seats that the uk has in europe are around 12% of the total. there is an 88% that can get on with its business. can i put it to you, jacqueline foster, we are not
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automatically going to be part of the european safety agency. i disagree, we will remain part of it, because we are not looking to form some other agency, there are other countries who are part of that agency, compliant with it, not members of the european union... norway... the fact that we manufactured goods here, the wings for a bus, rolls—royce engines, there will not be a tariff issue either, and those goods will continue to be certified in the european aviation safety agency. when we come to the open skies, i am afraid your other guest is extremely negative, what we need to do, what we clearly need to do, because we will not be part of the eu in terms of open skies, we need to have an arrangement, uk eu, then we will revert back to bilaterals when we are looking at the united states, or being part
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of an open skies agreement. we have had bilateral and multilateral agreements since 1944, under the chicago convention, and therefore, with political will, and there is a lot of discussion, i have to take on board and challenge the comments your guest has made, discussions have been taking place, with people like me, i am a transport spokesman, i specialise in this area, the commission want a transition, the ministers want a smooth transition, politicians want a smooth transition. my guest in the studio here in london... speed is of the essence. the airline vote with their feet, last week, easyjet has registered, taken of the uk aoc 100 plus aeroplanes, and put them in and aoc in austria, they are not waiting for government decisions, they are deciding to move business to europe. —— an aoc. all week there have been
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celebrations and commemorations of the moment 50 years ago when the sexual offences act decriminalised homosexual acts in private between consenting couples over the age of 21. what it wasn't was full emancipation, or a magic bullet that changed attitudes, prejudices and created an immediately accepting society. that has been a slower and, for many, a painfuljourney. now, lgbt people are more comfortable in their skin. but to say that homophobia doesn't exist, or that there is discrimination below the surface would be wrong. matthew todd, the former editor of attitude magazine, brought out his book straight jacket: how to be gay and happy to great acclaim last year. this is his film for newsnight about the mental health issues he says are still crippling too many lgbt people. voiceover: decriminalisation, adoption rights, equal marriage,
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britain's lgbt community has come a long way over the past 50 years. but, despite this, lgbt people still suffer with higher levels of depression, anxiety, addictions and suicide, i know, because i am one of them. soho used to be a place i would come to to get out of my head. today, in recovery, iam more likely to be here, sipping a cup of herbal tea. why is it that so many lgbt people suffer with mental health problems? in my experience, these problems are never far away. rob god was a man i worked with briefly at attitude magazine, in 2013, aged 3a, he took his own life. —— rob goddard. he was massively gregarious, he was a central part of every social situation. he had thousands of friends. with those real highs,
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came the very big lows, as well. he partied quite heavily, he did recreational drugs, he found a cert in utopia within that environment, he could just be himself and nobody would care. —— certain utopia. you said he was not happy being gay. he was fiercely proud of being gay, he never hid it, at all. not from anyone, did he. but i think that had a negative effect on him. i remember a time when he was sat at the back of a bus, early hours of the morning, with his boyfriend at the time, his head on his shoulder, back from a club, something like that, on the bus, on the way home, laid his head against his shoulder, and he was beaten up for it. he asked the driver of the bus to step in, the driver of the bus was very negative towards him.
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and kind of... essentially said, if you put yourself into this position, by being outwardly gay, then you deserve what you get. just months before he died, rob had a psychotic episode after ingesting window cleaner and other substances, he ended up breaking his own leg. he was smashing his leg against the wall, there was blood everywhere, he was in hospital for a while, i did go to see him. and he was so sorry at what had happened. he said it was the drugs, he said that it was like fighting an army. in the bedroom. powerful drugs like crystal meth and jbl are increasingly popular in the gay male community. -- gbl.
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the only lgbt specific drugs and alcohol service, capital at antidote, has seen a big rise in people seeking help. some people would say, they are using drugs, no big deal, not the end of the world, but it can destroy lives. lost relationships, lost homes, lostjobs, not those people, it has a devastating effect on people's mental health, i think it is important we start looking at some of those underlying issues that, you know, that people are using drugs. low self—esteem, the feeling of not being good enough. the loneliness and isolation, as well, that some people can feel. young people still struggle, staggeringly, stonewall recently found that nearly half of young trans people have attempted suicide. amy, a 19—year—old from coventry, was bullied to the point where she considered taking her own life. started off with low—level verbal comments, and then
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the physical bullying. i was being pushed around, i was having things thrown at me, because of my gender identity. things thrown at me, books, pens, rulers... this behaviour and bullying was affecting me, and it was not being tackled by the teacher, and that legitimised it, it gave them the power to do the actions, we will not get in trouble for it. legitimised it in my head. if this is happening and it is not being tackled, then maybe i am not worth this, maybe i am a lower person. if i could just end it, i thought, then i would not have to put up with the abuse and the bullying,
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it would stop. if that was the only thing that i could do to get it to stop, that was the only thing left, ifelt like i could control it. good evening, and welcome. talking is something we have not done enough of, a change of scene is a monthly discussion group for gay and bisexual men to share life experiences, often for the first time. you need to be out and proud and happy, look how fabulous we are, we go out and we have fun. there is an image, a general image, within the gay community, that we feel we have two project. you may ridicule gay men, but you cannot would it kill my lifestyle... i feel i need to show something that i am ok to be me, but of course, for me to actually make so much effort to do that, deep down, of course, there is insecurity. i don't feel like we have moved beyond the position
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of defending our right to exist yet, my experience as a gay man is very much about proving my right to be who i am, now, still, before having the luxury to reflect on how i can be a healthy, joyous version of that. applause this is notjust a gay issue, when society fails to support lgbt children, whole families are devastated, it is time that we all woke up to this mental health crisis. studio: that's about it for tonight. we're in the midst of prom season and tomorrow there's a new treat, the first ever relaxed prom. it's a concert created for children and adults with autism and learning disabilities, and others with sensory impairments. eva stewart, piccolo player for the bbc national orchestra of wales, is here to perform the flight of the bumblebee.

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