tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News August 2, 2017 9:00am-11:01am BST
hello. it's wednesday. it's 9am. i'm tina daheley in for victoria. welcome to the programme. hello and welcome to the programme. we're live until ham. throughout the programme this morning we'll bring you the latest breaking news and developing stories — and, as always, keen to hear from you. a little later in the programme we'll speak to olympic gold medallist adam peaty who keeps breaking world records in the pool and is on track to become one of the greatest swimmers of all time. if you've got a question for him — or would like to speak to him direct — do get in touch — use the hashtag victoria live and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. our top story today, recent unrest in english and welsh jails is causing "grave concern", according to the prison governors association. in an open letter, the president of the organisation said governors
were facing "unacceptable stress". the letter comes after two days of unrest at the mount establishment in hertfordshire. mark lobel reports. there have been days of disorder at prisons wiltshire and hertfordshire where riot trained officers were deployed to subdue unruly prisoners. this past year has brought an average of 20 attacks a day on staff in prisons in england and wales, following a decline in the number of prison officers over the past few years and complaints over pay. now the president of prison governors‘ association is publicly blaming the government for what she calls a crisis in many jails and unacceptable stress and anxiety amongst workers. in an open letter to prison governors, andrea albutt says the state has failed to help them cope with population pressures in prison, having changed the way the prisons are run for the worse. ms albutt says the government's decision taken earlier this year to separate operational control of the prison system from responsibility for policy
was madness, leaving a gaping hole in operational knowledge the ministry ofjustice says it recognises the long—standing challenges facing prisons and that it's recruiting more officers. but with only 75 more in place since last year, ms albutt said recruitment remains in a critical condition. danjohnson dan johnson is here. danjohnson is here. dan, how bad is it? this letter makes clear that things are ina this letter makes clear that things are in a state of crisis. had this isa are in a state of crisis. had this is a really strongly worded letter to, it is an open letter, but directed at the ministry ofjustice highlighting what she feels they need to put right. she talks of a crisis. she says there is concerted indiscipline and a toxic mix that doesn't have a quick mix and the future looks we'll suffer more of the same. she says recruitment
remains critical. she talks about the selection process which is allowing many unsuitable people through. she says the quality of training is poor and new recruits can add to the instability of prisons. she says she is devastated at the complete decline of our service and that is why, that would seem to be her explanation, for what we have seen repeated disorder during over the last couple of days. repeated disorder at the mount prison and we have seen trouble at other prisons. there is widespread agreement that our prisons are in crisis and something needs to change. in response to the open letter, what are the ministry of justice saying? we have a statement from the ministry ofjustice. they've addressed the issue that andrea albutt highlighted about the new system they have put in place and the way they have split operational control with the way policy is set. they say that the creation of this new prison and probation service was designed to help create a professionalised front line service. they say they know that prisons have faced a number of
long—standing challenges which is why they have taken action to boost prison officer numbers, but andrea albutt says that's not increasing quickly enough. they say they need a calm environment, but she is clear that's not happening at the minute. dan, thank you very much indeed. we'll hear from the president of the prison governors association at 10am. if you work in a prison or have direct experience of them, we are really keen to hear from you this morning. please get in touch. ben brown is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the day's news. the duke of edinburgh will carry out his final public engagement this afternoon before he retires from official royal duties. prince philip, who is 96—years—old, will attend a parade by the royal marines. in may it was announced he would be retiring after spending more than six decades supporting the queen as well as attending events for his own charities and organisations. here's our royal correspondent, nicholas witchell. he has been a familiar and sometimes forthright feature of national life
ever since his marriage to the then princess elizabeth in november 1947 and although his robust approach to people and events has sometimes got him into trouble, few can criticise his devotion to royal duty, most often in support of the queen, but also in pursuit of his own separate programme, supporting issues like the environment and the development of the awards programme for young people which he created and which is named after him. but this afternoon it will come to an end. the duke, who was 96 injune, will attend his last solo engagement, a parade by the royal marines on the forecourt of buckingham palace. it's not a complete retirement from public life. the duke may still accompany the queen to certain events, but after more than 22,000 solo engagements and moe than 600 solo overseas visits since the queen came to the throne, it does mark a significant moment both for the duke and for the queen. no longer will she have her husband
at her side for most of her public appearances, other younger members of the royal family will take his place, as the self—declared leading plaque unveiler in the world finally takes things a little easier. a bbc investigation has found a growing shortfall in the number of beds needed to care for elderly people across the uk. by the end of next year, it's predicted that up to 3,000 people won't be able to find a place in a care home. the association of directors of adult social services is calling for more money to be spent on nurses and carers so people can receive care in their own homes for longer. more than one million women in their early 60s are worse off financially as a result of the increase in the state pension age, a think—tank says. the institute for fiscal studies found that raising the age from 60 to 63 was saving the government £5 billion a year. but those affected were losing more than £30 a week on average.
the department for work and pensions says the changes are fair because of rising life expectancy. there are calls to renationalise probation services following a rise in the number of supervised offenders charged with serious crimes. a total of 517 reviews were triggered in the last year after an offender on probation was charged with murder, manslaughter, rape or other serious offences. three years ago the government changed the way probation services were run in 2014, creating the national probation service to deal with high—risk offenders with the rest being supervised by 21 new community rehabilitation companies. the charity, save the children, says more than a million children in yemen are at higher risk of dying from cholera. two years of civil war has led to severe humanitarian crisis with the country on the brink of famine and nearly 500,000 people infected with the disease. america is not seeking
to invade north korea or oust its leader kim jong—un, according to its secretary of state, rex tillerson. he was speaking after a senior republican senator said that president trump considered going to war as an option. last week north korea carried out a second test of an intercontinental ballistic missile in defiance of a united nations ban. police looking for the missing airman, corrie mckeague, say they're examining whether material found at an incinerator plant in ipswich is linked to him. the 23—year—old was last seen neara bin loading bay following a night out in suffolk last september. police ended a 20—week search of a nearby landfill site last month. kanye west's touring company is suing lloyd's of london for nearly £8 million over the rapper's cancelled gigs. very good touring said in a legal document that the insurers have implied they can refuse to pay out
by claiming his mental health issues were caused by marijuana use. west was forced to cancel the remaining 21 dates of his tour last year after falling ill and was treated at a psychiatric centre in los angeles. well, that's a summary of our news. more from me at 9.30am. we will have more on the kanye west story before 10am. do get in touch with us throughout the morning — use the hashtag victoria live and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. let's get some sport now with katherine downes. and, kat, everyone's gearing up for the return of usain bolt to the olympic stadium. yes, sadly we havejust yes, sadly we have just a yes, sadly we havejust a matter of days now, don't we, before we can refer to usain bolt as a forlter athlete. after the world championships in london he will be
retiring from the sport and what a legacy, he will leave. eight 0lympic gold medals and three world records including the 9.58 and here he is posing with his normalflamboyant personality. he said that he hopes that those world records will last for yea rs that those world records will last for years and years to come so that he can boast to any future children that he may have that one day their dad was the greatest ever. he has been, hasn't he? athletics and sport in general will lose its brightest star in decades once he bows out after the world championships in london. a man who not only set records and won records, but stood asa records and won records, but stood as a beacon of integrity and honesty. the shadow of the problem of doping within its ranks and many of doping within its ranks and many of bolt‘s sporting rivals have succumbed to that temptation, mo recently his team—mate, nester
carter. he is appealing against that decision, but here is what usain bolt had to say about the threat of doping in his sport. we made changes and the sport pretty much hit rock bottom last season, a couple of seasons ago. now it's moving forward. i think it's going in the right direction. as long as athletes understand, if they keep this up, the sport will die and they won't have a job. hopefully the athlete also understand that and that they will help the sport move forward. will he go out on a high? wherever he races and whom ever he races, you wa nt he races and whom ever he races, you want him to win. six athletes have run faster than him over the 100 meters this year, but bolt says he is still the greatest and he is ready to take on the world once again. i'm excited now. this is the
moment i'm looking forward to. i think after the race, moment i'm looking forward to. i think afterthe race, or during moment i'm looking forward to. i think after the race, or during the race, then the emotioning will come out, it depends on how the crowd reacts. if there is 1,000 cheering, i will be happy, but they always find ways of get emotions out of you. yes, it is the last race. i come in here focussed and ready to go as always. as i said over the years, i try not to put extra pressure 011 years, i try not to put extra pressure on myself. i'm focussed on getting the job done and that's what i'm going to do. usain bolt gets his final world championships under way on friday and you will be able to see sir mo farah in action on friday as well in the 10,000 meters. so a big opening day of the world championships. i'm looking forward to that. and, kat, you've got some outstanding baseball action to show us? they are spectacular. at a baseball game between the cleveland indians and the boston red soc, look at this
catch. 0ver and the boston red soc, look at this catch. over the barrierfrom austin jackson. this has been talked about on the internet as the best catch everin on the internet as the best catch ever in baseball. let's look at it from another angle. that does count asa from another angle. that does count as a catch. you can see the official just checking that it counts. the rules are complicated, but it does count as a catch. is it the best ever? i haven't seen anything better than that, kat, i have to admit. that was incredible. thank you very much. no problem. only a month ago, this programme reported that the quality of care for the elderly in the uk was approaching a "tipping point." the care watchdog — the care quality commission — said that a quarter of all care homes were not safe enough. now new figures suggest there is also a huge shortfall in the number of beds available. the data commissioned by bbc radio 4's you and yours programme from property consultantsjll suggests that in nine years, the shortfall could be more than 70,000 beds, based on the expected growth of demand. up to 3,000 elderly people won't be
able to get beds in care homes because of growing demand by the end of next year. and it's already a problem for some now. we can speak to catherine bond, who's here with her children beatrice and sam. it took catherine's family seven months to find a space in a care home for her mother elizabeth, who is 93. amanda waring cared for her parents in her own home, and wrote a book called the carer‘s bible. she thinks we need to face up to the reality that in the future we'll need to look after the elderly more in our own homes. in leeds is sue 0'shea. her aunt — seen here on her 90th birthday — and her cousin both live in a care home in bradford which is closing down. and in our salford studio is ryan godwin who owns welcome to the programme. catherine,
let's start with you. why did it ta ke let's start with you. why did it take seven months? my mother had been living with us. she was diagnosed with vascular dementia in 2012, so she moved to our home in east london, from outside of the capital, so a completely new part of the country for her. so we took it on ourselves to look after her, but in 2016, early 2016, she came down with pneumonia and was admitted to oui’ with pneumonia and was admitted to our local hospital, and essentially she was there for six months. she was what i would describe as bed blocking, and during that time i was campaigning to get a better care package for her, because she had been receiving social services package from our local authority, which had its shortfalls, and clearly it was very challenging for oui’ clearly it was very challenging for ourfamily, particularly
clearly it was very challenging for our family, particularly for my children, having carers coming into oui’ children, having carers coming into our home, it felt like an institution rather than a family home after a while. your mother elizabeth, 93, was in hospitalfor six months? that's right. bed blocking, as you call it, because i ca re blocking, as you call it, because i care home, a bed, wasn't available? it was to do really with the inertia of the services. we were campaigning to try to get her a better package. in the beginning we didn't know whether she would be coming back to oui’ whether she would be coming back to our home whether we would be able to getan our home whether we would be able to get an alternative. what we did know, during the time she was in hospital, she was only six, i would say, forfour weeks. in that hospital, she was only six, i would say, for four weeks. in that time she lost the ability to walk, she was losing her cognitive skills. she was losing her cognitive skills. she was not eating properly. why? the resources u nfortu nately were was not eating properly. why? the resources unfortunately were not there. it is not only the nhs, but also the fact that a lot of agency
staff, there is a very high turnover of staff, so there was very little consistency, and physiotherapists we re consistency, and physiotherapists were not able to engage with her. as her daughter, living locally, i was trying to liaise with them, perhaps to even help out with sessions, but it just wasn't happening to even help out with sessions, but itjust wasn't happening so she lost the ability to do many things, which meant she no longer could have the package she had had before. for example, she couldn't get out of bed without two people helping her. she needed more help eating, she needed total help dressing and washing, which meant our home, which isjust a normalfamily which meant our home, which isjust a normal family home, which meant our home, which isjust a normalfamily home, we didn't have the capacity in terms of space, layout, facilities, to look after her. sushi was in a worse state when she came home from hospital after six months? —— so she was in a worse state. absolutely. as part of my campaigning to get better care, i ask the palliative care team to look
at her condition. what was a real problem for us, we never really knew how my mother's illness was progressing. essentially, dementia isa progressing. essentially, dementia is a terminal illness. we had very little support from our gp, very little support from our gp, very little support from the elderly care co nsulta nts little support from the elderly care consultants in our local hospital before she was admitted to hospital 01’ before she was admitted to hospital or during that time. so apart from the reading it i could do, perhaps reading books, maybe the internet, 01’ reading books, maybe the internet, or talking to friends or colleagues with similar experiences, there was very little knowledge that i had and it was very hard. my two children are here today i have a younger son as well and he was four. and i quickly ask you, beatrice and sam, what was it like having your grandmother with you for that ten?|j don't think it was very nice, especially because at home there we re especially because at home there were so especially because at home there we re so many especially because at home there were so many issues especially because at home there were so many issues around the carers, lots of the times in ealing my parents were not with us, instead they were having to call up the
agencies, call up health care who didn't really understand how to do their job didn't really understand how to do theirjob properly, they had to sort out issues, for example where carers had not looked after my grandmother properly, had not on simple things i give hera properly, had not on simple things i give her a proper meal, tintera pad, properly —— changed her pad. me and my brothers were almost just stuck in the middle of it and i know that my parents hate to think it but, and it isn't their fault at all, but because my parents had to spend so much time with my grandma and so much time with my grandma and so much time with my grandma and so much time trying to sort out all of theseissues much time trying to sort out all of these issues around her, we really didn't get the right amount of time with them when she was with us. some people might think, catherine, isn't that what we are supposed to be doing, looking after our parents, grandparents? that was my instinctive reaction. my mother was a very capable lady until she was 87, living independently. she told me she wanted to stay in her home.
that could not happen because she lived 60 miles from us and i am actually her only daughter. it was just my instinct for me to take her m, just my instinct for me to take her in, as she had done for me as a child. i willjust bring in sue. thank you forjoining us this morning. your 90—year—old aunt, and your cousin who has early onset dementia, are both in the same care home — but they're having to leave because it's closing. why is it shutting down? well, essentially, it is money. bradford council did not make any secret of the fact that they could no longer afford to fund a care home. we went through an extensive consultation period, and quite a numberof us who consultation period, and quite a number of us who all have loved ones in the same care home got together and we established an action group. and we fought it and thought it, but lend of the day sadly bradford council still made the decision to close the home, in spite of the fact
that we made several other offers, asa that we made several other offers, as a way of trying to keep the home open, at least until the end of our loved ones' lives. what will you do, sue, what happens next? my aunty and my cousin have found alternative ca re my cousin have found alternative care homes. and in theory, you know, we should be able to sit back and relax knowing they will be safe in another care home, but actually in reality this is where our worries really begin, because we don't know how our loved ones are going to cope with this major change in their life, because where they lived at home view it really was their home, notjust a care home. it was rated good by the cqc, and the staff there, they really cared. they were trained, they had the expertise to deal with dementia patients. and, you know, our loved ones don't
understand, they are not going to be able to comprehend why they have got to move, and they have now got to somehow cope, and we, the loved ones, are sort of sitting here just wondering what impact is going to be on my cousin and my auntie, because none of us know. and from research we know there are risks in terms of physical and mental health to older people when they are moved from one ca re people when they are moved from one care home to another. sue, let's speak to ryan. you have owned and runa speak to ryan. you have owned and run a care home for many years. what is the biggest challenge facing? firstly, i would like to say i am really sorry to hear about the experiences of the previous callers. because that is something which i think should concern us all. but i think should concern us all. but i think the biggest challenges we face, and this has been pointed out really, a re face, and this has been pointed out really, are ones of funding, an
ongoing problem. and it is blighting people's ability to maintain the status of the industry. and i think it is affecting the quality of care, and very sadly it seems, from what has been said already on the programme, it is actually affecting the sustainability of care homes going forward. is there also a problem with recruitment and getting people to work in that industry, when in terms of reputation it has taken a bit of a battering? am afraid this is something we see. people come to me, to place their pa rents people come to me, to place their parents into caring now, and that sad time can come, in any of our lives, and they look at me was almost fear and trepidation in their eyes, because of course they are hearing so many perhaps negative stories of people having negative experiences, and it is making people very unhappy about having to make that choice to place someone, their loved one, into a care environment, for example. according to the figures, one in 20 care homes closed
in the last three years. can you explain why so many care homes are struggling to survive? is it as simple as money and funding? there isa simple as money and funding? there is a greater expectation, quite rightly, that the quality of care we offer people, particularly surrounding the end of their life experience, which means that a lot more input is needed and has to be needed to get a better outcome for the people for whom we are caring, and that involves greater expense. there is a great emphasis today on providing stimulating activities, for people living in care homes so they can live well with their dementia, but live well with it, and get good outcomes. unfortunately, all of these things cost money. and the funding is not there to pay for this. also, what is very important for you to try to understand, the banks are stopping lending money to people who might
wa nt to lending money to people who might want to buy a care home, so there is a generation of people who own care homes today working on ancient traditional goodwill, built up perhaps over years, and the fact it has been in the family for a number of years, has been in the family for a number of yea rs, if has been in the family for a number of years, if there is no want to pass on the care home too, of course when it comes to the end of their business life, which catches up with all of us, when i go to care meetings, i am a youngster amongst... you know, ifeel like a teenager again, and when people come to retire, of course they are selling the care home and it is no longer a care home but turning into, you know, a car park are block of flats. 0k, you know, a car park are block of flats. ok, i will read you know, a car park are block of flats. 0k, iwill read out you know, a car park are block of flats. ok, i will read out some m essa 9 es flats. ok, i will read out some messages that have come in. martin from swindon has e—mailed us. "the reasons why our care homes are in crisis is because of savage cuts in funding by the government since 2010 as the problem with conservatism is you eventually run out of other people's money." a solicitor has sentin people's money." a solicitor has
sent in this tweet. "hearing about the tipping point for our elderly and most vulnerable is sadly something i hear about from my clients every day." you have written a book, amanda, the carer‘s bible, and as we are hearing residential ca re and as we are hearing residential care places are increasingly difficult to find, and a shortfall predicted. is this something more of us predicted. is this something more of us should expect in the future? predicted. is this something more of us should expect in the future7m is, and like you said it is that feeling of loving care, the love you have been given or perhaps not been given, asa have been given or perhaps not been given, as a society we will have to look at how we generate compassionate care for all ages, and i think at the moment elders have been seen as a separate entity, as opposed to understanding that we all hold the seat of the older person we are going to become right now. you know, there is no difference —— we all hold the seed of the older person we are going to become. we need to try to understand that. how
do we regenerate compassion? haddioui inspire new carers like these beautiful young guys here to actually want to go into care? because to care for somebody in your own home, took care for somebody until the point of dying, it is challenging but it is so rewarding, and so healing, allowing us to connect with something in ourselves we might never have had the opportunity to do. in an ideal world, that sounds great. we would love to be able to look after our pa rents love to be able to look after our parents in their old age, but practically for a lot of people it is not possible. they may not have the space, the facilities, and the time, they may live too far away. absolutely, and this is why we need to look at other situations. in holland they are looking at places where they have elders living with university students, and that combined, really don't have terrifyingly difficult leads, but there is enough, with that loneliness, the support —— terrifying the difficult needs, but there is enough support. with a
whole, other people around them supporting them. we will have to look at different paradigms around ca re look at different paradigms around care homes if care homes are now not going to be funded and worked in the same way. but while doing it well they're not be another crisis point being delayed, children later in life, with that problem where families having to look after young children will have to look after old appearance at the same time? that is that thing with the sandwich generation and is exactly what i had with my dad, being a single mum, left in tears, thinking, i can't cope, because my father was too violent cope, because my father was too viole nt and cope, because my father was too violent and aggressive to go into any ca re violent and aggressive to go into any care setting so i was left in that middle ground, sol any care setting so i was left in that middle ground, so i do understand that and that is why i suppose our passion, writing about ways to support, because if you are looking after a loved one in your home, you need all that emotional support, and people need to know what it takes to go through that and how to deliver the most best loving heartfelt care, because it is not
just pie in the sky. we are talking about a personal possibility for the future for all of us. catherine, can you cut back on that —— they want to come back on? i can only agree. absolutely. i have neverfelt so middle—aged in my life. i am absolutely in the middle. my mother had me quite late, when she was a1, andi had me quite late, when she was a1, and i feel very blessed she is still with us, but we have had the emotional challenges, the logistics. i have been pretty much working full—time for all of this. my husband actually took some time out and became my mother's official carer will she was with us but it did have a cost on ourfamily. we look for support outside the family home, got some support from the old—timers society, and there was no support relief from our local authority. —— the society. if she was a mcilorum she
was in my mother would have had a very different experience. we were very different experience. we were very fortu nate very different experience. we were very fortunate to have in the —— if my mother had been in the care home at this point she would have had a different experience. the funding situation that has been talked about, it is very different. different in a local authority or nhs care on and it is different in a privately run care. thank you. we will have to leave it there. but good to end on a positive note. thank you all for sharing your stories with us, and please shares yours as stories with us, and please shares your s as well. you can get in touch on the usual ways. still to come: the number of offenders who commit serious crimes like murder and rape whilst on probation has risen by 25% since parts of the probation service were privatised three years ago. so is there a link? we'll try and find out. the latest newsbeat documentary
looks at children whose parents tell them they are gay. we will look at them they are gay. we will look at the impact on families. here's ben in the bbc newsroom with a summary of today's news. good morning. the president of the prison governors association has attacked the government over its management of prisons in england and wales. andrea albutt said members had been left "devastated" at what she called "the complete decline of our service". the ministry ofjustice says it's dealing with long—term challenges in prisons. there are calls to renationalise probation services following a rise in the number of supervised offenders charged with serious crimes. 517 reviews were triggered in the past year after an offender on probation was charged with murder, manslaughter, rape or other serious offences. the duke of edinburgh will carry out his final public engagement this afternoon before he retires from royal duty. prince philip, who is 96, will attend a parade by the royal marines, just two months after it was announced he'd be stepping aside from public life.
a bbc investigation has found a growing shortfall in the number of beds needed to care for elderly people. by the end of next year it's predicted that up to 3,000 people won't be able to find a place in a care home. the association of directors of adult social services is calling for more money to be spent on nurses and carers — so people can receive care in their own homes for longer. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 10am. we have had abe—mailfrom gerry. he says, "i have served ten years in prison and have seen and understand the problem of staff shortages. the dangers of drugs, violence and suicide is a terrible price to pay for cutbacks." if you work in a prison and know what it's like, please get in touch and share your experiences with us. here's some sport now with katherine downes. good morning. one of sports biggest stars, usain bolt, has issued a stark warning ahead of the final races of his career. the eight—time 0lympic champion will retire after the world championships in london which begin this weekend, has told the bbc that athletics "will die" if doping
in the sport continues. england goalkeeper karen bardsley will miss the rest of women's euro 2017 after breaking her leg in sunday's quarter—final win over france. siobhan chamberlain is now likely to step in to face the netherlands in tomorrow night's semi—final. there's another injury scare for daniel sturridge. the liverpool striker scored, but then went off injured in a pre—season friendly against bayern munich in germany. managerjurgen klopp says he hopes "it is isn't serious". and barcelona have given neymar permission to miss training today and has been told to "sort out his future". a rumoured £198 million move to paris st germain looks increasingly likely. kat, thank you very much indeed. next, coming out to your children as gay. around 20,000 kids are thought to live with gay parents, many of whom were originally in straight relationships. so what's it like when a parent tells you they're gay? well, jillian stewart was just four years old when her mum told her she was lesbian.
it's not something she remembers very well, but she's aware of the impact it had on her older siblings. so, 20 years on, she's been speaking to her two mums and brother and sisters about what it's like when parents come out to their children. it's part of newsbeat‘s latest documentary my lesbian mums. hello. hiya. this is my mum susan. you could try my new drink, organic, it's very good for you. absolutely not. this is the house where ourfamily grew up. my mum moved in here with gerry 17 years ago. with gerry, came three big sisters for me. come on, time to go. bye.
here we have some pictures of me and my brotherjamie in my favourite one. this is the picture of us posting appeared because my mum always tried to make as people happy and smiling together. poorjamie, he was the only boy in the house apart from rupert the dog and max the cat! so i think i'm going to start my journey of by speaking to him. i think it will be quite interesting to see from a male perspective in a house full of women. i think i was eight and i remember gerry coming over to the house quite a lot and elaine being there, playing football with her in the back garden. not really knowing what it was. then obviously, mum and dad split up and then it was, ok. this is what's happening. you know what i mean? i feel like you always just find the funny side of things, you make a joke of things and not get sad or anything. i always look on the bright side
of life, as they say. what was that card you got mum, was it for her birthday or something? the baked bean one? the baked bean one. because? she was a lesbian. terrible, terrible joke when i look back. 14—year—old me found it hilarious, but 28—year—old me, not so much. something i would tell all my friends about you, the yearbook. the yearbook, aye. the quote. more mummies than an egyptian pyramid. it's just good to find the joke. there's no point in letting it get to you. i don't think i remember anybody staring at us when we went out. no. we were so oblivious to that sort of thing because it was just our family. i was just there for the food. a free dinner, you can't beat it. you were such a fat boy! no, i don't remember hearing any whispers or any comments. nothing like that. it was normal for us. there was no looking around,
or there was anyone watching us, do you know what i mean? it was our normal. let's go out for dinner, let's not care what people think. i also really liked how mum and gerryjust held hands and didn't care if people saw them. and that's the way it should be. i feel like there's not enough people doing that. what, holding hands? yes. if you are expecting me to hold your hand right now, you've got another think coming! nope! come on! no. i know what you mean, i think i've started seeing more people who have come out, whatever, holding hands, all the kind of stuff. in public? yeah, but back then it was in such a big thing. no. what would your response be to people who don't agree with the way that we've been brought up? why take the time out to sort of chastise somebody else's upbringing? maybe have a look at their's first. i know, don't even bother. i mean, we wouldn't do that to other people. definitely not.
and we've been dead lucky in the sense that nobody has ever questioned it. yes. definitely. aye, it's... there should be more love in the world, not any more hating. definitely. peace, man. oh my god. i thinkjamie found it easier because he had so many friends in school. he was confident enough to say in his first introduction, "i'm jamie and my mum's a lesbian". there are four years between jamie and me, maybe being the youngest made it easier. elaine is a really cool sister to have. she's a singer and writes her own music. but being a few years older thanjamie, she might remember our two families coming together in more detail than we do. do you remember your mum coming out to you? she didn't. i was sitting in the living room and there was a card sitting on the couch from susan to my mum
saying how much she loved her, and that kind of thing. and i was hysterical, because complete news to me. i can remember exactly what i was upset about, it turned out i was the last person to know as well. and all her friends were actually girl friends. i just remember that day, finding out and i remember being in my school uniform and i remember sitting on the couch. how old were you? ten or11. i think with you it was probably a friend thing, she was too scared to tell you. i was so young, i was just kind of like, 0k. that's the difference, if you are tiny, you can tell kids these things. like, so. we don't understand what the differences. they love each other and that's all you need to know. it's interesting to hear how different it is for the different ages. that'sjust because society made me believe that was such a bad thing and that's kind of the last thing irememberabout it, about that discussion.
elaine was a bit upset when she realised, because she was a little bit older and i think it wasjust... i think she felt as though i should have told her earlier, so you can't always get the timing right. you try your best. i do regret that i hadn't told her sooner, more explicitly. but we're fine with that now, but it has taken time. how do you judge the timing? how do you know when the timing is right for each individual person? but elaine had more to deal with than just her mum saying she's a lesbian. one of her sisters came out when she was a teenager. marie wasn't able to take part in this documentary. i thought i knew about my sister being a lesbian before i found out about my mum and i was totally fine with that. for some reason it was a bigger deal because it was my mum.
and i don't know why. what was it like in school? awful, it was just constantly being reminded of, just walking down the halls and people shouting, "your sister's a bean". i would just keep walking, it was constant. i don't think i told anyone about my mum and susan, apart from my close friends because i got so much abuse by my sister, why would i? yeah, why would you even put yourself through that? i didn't talk to anybody about anything. i just couldn't talk to people generally. do you think that's why you were so shy? yeah, because ijust feel like i lost every bit of confidence. let's talk about something happy. i know, it's hard. it was really hard for you. yeah, i think everything changes
when you leave school, you can find yourself. it starts getting better. i didn't realise how hard it was for you. because we were at different points in our life back them. it's probably quite good to show that's how you actually felt and it's notjust all happy. no, it wasn't all happy, but i wish i could talk about things without crying because then you can actually say them out loud. i cry at everything, so don't worry. ijust can't get it out otherwise. elaine struggled a lot more than i did and it's clear there's not one right way to tell your children. it must have been tough on our mums though, all five of us were at different stages of our lives. we didn't sit them down as a group. no, definitely not. it was about each of them individually and getting time with them and feeling that the timing was right. for me, my fear was that
the children would be bullied. my two tell me that they didn't face anything like that. that they felt totally accepted and that our family was accepted for what it was. although gillian and recently told us that there were some remarks from schoolmates about having two lesbian mothers and that was news to me. so i think at the time, she probably was protecting us, to some extent, although we didn't know about that. although people will say to us, "0h, it's easy for gay couples now, compared to what it used to be, you are totally accepted". we're not, that's not true. it's not true. because there are still a lot of parts of society across the world that, where it is illegal in different countries still, or even in this country, if you belong to a particularly religious group, whatever background that might be and i'm not pointing the finger at one or another, that might say that our relationship is wrong.
i've had some horrendous stuff on social media. from strangers though? from strangers. yes, being called an abomination and other names like that. you don't know me, you don't know us and our wonderful family because every single one of those kids are wonderful and a bonus, they're a gift to society and the world, every single one of them. and one of them, my elder sister ann is running a successful and one of them, my elder sister ann, is running a successful business in majorca. here we come. let's get a taxi to go and see ann, and i cannot wait to see her. so excited. so what do any sisters do when they've not seen each other in a while? pass me the wine! ann is gerry's eldest. i never lived with her because she was at university when our mums moved in together. we rarely talk about the time before
we were just one family, but it's so hot, so time for some rooftop drinking. i see that absolutely anything is possible. i think it would be different if people were horrible to me, or if i was bullied because of it or i felt different. no — because i think i was 17, 18, i was at university. it was actually kind of cool to have lesbian parents. and it's like the whole time of friends and ross. carol and susan. and i was like, hey, my new mum's called susan too. i think for my mum as well, for having such young children, i think that would have been really hard for her. i think she was quite scared. but... because you don't know what fears are in your head and what are legitimate fears. so you don't know if legally you can lose your children, or if someone complains. what is the school system going to say? massive respect for them to have
done what they did back then. yeah, because they really were the first, there was no around to support them, but then it's the kind of strength of the relationship in that they managed it together. they did it together. a lot of people wouldn't have been able to survive that, i don't think. no. elaine definitely has struggled through school, by the sounds of things. i think she's actually quite emotionally traumatised by what happened to her in school. i know. i don't think it was necessarily about having two mums. she said that she never actually told anyone in school because of how people reacted to her sister coming out. it was clearly a very unhappy time for her. i'm obviously understanding more about it now, but where she is now, she's amazing.
and she's so beautiful, and creative. our biggest fear was losing our children because we were lesbians. it still felt real then. it felt very real. but the general consensus from all the children is we are very proud of you. oh, that's lovely. you'll make me cry! you are going to make me cry! us coming out and being together is not the way the book was written, on life. but it's our truth. and as a parent, that was the only thing that we could do and give that to all of you. so, even if that was hard at times, it was worth it. cheers to that. the full version of my lesbian mums is available on bbc iplayer. in itjillian finds out what it's
like for parents coming out to their children in 2017 and whether or not parents still have the fears as her mums did 20 years ago. there are calls for the government to renationalise probation services following what's described as an "extremely worrying" rise in the number of supervised offenders charged with serious crimes. figures show an increase of 25% in the number of offenders under probation committing serious offences — including murder, manslaughter and rape. reforms introduced in 201a saw private firms take over the management of some low and medium risk offenders. so is there a link between the rise in crime and partial privatisation? and? 0n on it and?
—— or is there more to it than that? with us in the studio is ian lawrence who is the general secretary of napo, the national association of parole officers. bob turney a former offender who later became a probation officer. matt illic who works for the charity and social business catch 22 — they provide probation services. also, from cardiff we can speak to nadine marshall whose son conner was killed by man on probation. welcome to the programme. ian, let's start with you. did you see this coming? our members, in the probation association, and the trade union as well, so our members are working under appalling conditions asa working under appalling conditions as a result of privatisation and they saw that a long time ago. we told ministers of that fact, we submitted evidence to parliament. we we re submitted evidence to parliament. we were among 500 organisations that foretold problems with the privatisation. it is easy to make the link between serious further offences, and our hearts go out all the victims of those crimes, you have to look deeper than the figures and at the operational models the government has allowed to come into play, by some private contractors, and there have been countless
reports from her majesty's inspectorate that they are not fit for purpose in many cases. let me read you the ministry ofjustice statement. "in 201a we reformed our approach to privation." so for the first time ever all offenders are given a custodial sentence, received privation support and supervision on release. "it is therefore misleading to compare the number of serious further offences prior to our reforms with subsequent figures, as the number of people on probation is now significantly higher than before." what is your response? they would say that, wouldn't they? they did not reference the fact that the inspectorate has described the system as non—effective, except for putter—mac areas were some good work has been done, but that has ma nifestly failed has been done, but that has manifestly failed —— except for a few areas. now the government has drawn £22 million of taxpayers' cash at these. 0ur
drawn £22 million of taxpayers' cash at these. our members are asking how it will make an actual difference —— the government has thrown the £22 million. more offenders are committing war crimes on probation, because more offenders are under probation supervision, surely? you like you can look at it like that or also look at it as there are not as many people in the prison receiving the support where it counts as well as people in the community and that cannot be divorced from elsewhere. if the system is not helping people to gearupfora if the system is not helping people to gear up for a return to society, you will see more reoffending and serious offences. the reforms extended the supervision to everyone serving a sentence under 12 months, and that is the privatisation. previously they were not supervised, so if they offended they would not be counted in those figures. so we are not comparing like—for—like. be counted in those figures. so we are not comparing like-for-like. we said they should have been supervised by the probation service before privatisation but we were never given the money to do it. we never given the money to do it. we never saw these people, as bob will
tell you shortly. so a0,000 people coming out into society with inadequate support and in many cases inadequate support and in many cases inadequate supervision as well. matt, either benefits with privatisation, in your opinion, from your experience? to start with the figures, we work with 10,000 prison leaders in the final weeks of their custodial sentence and for us it is too early to say whether this programme has been a success or failure. the first and official statistics are due later this year and even the government's national audit office says it is too early to score, but i think it is absolutely right there is public scrutiny on these issues. the report my colleague has talked about is welcome and i think there are significant problems in the system more widely. in terms of probation, privatisation, outsourcing, we would say that there is not a right or wrong as to who delivers public services, and we are a charity significantly services, and we are a charity significa ntly involved. services, and we are a charity significantly involved. and actually some of the best performing probation systems are the world are
volu nta ry. probation systems are the world are voluntary. for example, the japanese system, the probation system is made up system, the probation system is made up of volunteers, some 50,000 people. the early version of our own probation system was volunteers. so i think there is not something intrinsic to privatisation that has led to a lot of these failures. you don't think renationalising that pa rt don't think renationalising that part of it will solve the problem necessarily? exactly. there were issues with probation before and i think we have significant structural problems at the moment, both in prisons and with probation, and i think the more public scrutiny and pressure there is an government what the real issues have beenin government what the real issues have been in the operating model and in the resource of this, that is the really important debate to think about now as opposed to who is involved. bob, you spend time going in and out of prison and probation worker helped to turn your life around and get your life together. what do they do? i was one of the short recipients. serving a year or less, so i got a lot of supervision.
you know, it stayed with me. we just used to passing them around now, but there was no relationship. in my time there was plenty of relationship and that is what happened. when i really did get my act together, she inspired me to go on to become a probation officer, because i knew it worked. but i jumped ship just as because i knew it worked. but i jumped shipjust as it because i knew it worked. but i jumped ship just as it was because i knew it worked. but i jumped shipjust as it was going to change over to be privatised. it is not the service when i went it in, that it was when i went in. when i we nt that it was when i went in. when i went in, 20% of my time was spent writing about this offender, and 80% of the time working with the vendor. when i left it was completely reversed. 80% of my time was taken up reversed. 80% of my time was taken up writing reports —— working with the offender. and 20% spent working with the offender, and that is where it has lost, where it has fallen down. all right, you have serious offenders and sees teams looking after them, but the short time once
the ones who take up a lot of time and energy, a lot of people ask me, what turned around your life? and i simply see, i stopped feeling sorry for myself and started feeling sorry for myself and started feeling sorry for myself and started feeling sorry for my victims, and that is what we we re for my victims, and that is what we were doing in probation, getting them to grow up and take response ability. do you think, bob, you would be in this position now if when you were dealing with probation officers you were dealing with a privatised system? i don't think so. i like to think that i would but i was i like to think that i would but i was getting a tremendous amount of support from my probation officer. a tremendous amount. let me bring nadine into the conversation. can you tell us what happened to your son? good morning. my son connor was 18 and he was in protocol for one night only in march 2015 and he was attacked from behind by a gentleman
who i now know as david bryden. connor subsequently died of his injuries four days later and his attacker was charged with the murder. he has now been sentenced to 20 years in prison. so your son was killed by a man who was on probation. what do you think about what we are hearing today, the link between serious crime and privatisation. to be honest, i am angered by the overall responses, whether from the panel or government departments. why are you angry? there is an awful lot of talk about re—offenders and the support given to them, however at the bottom of this you have to remember there are victims and victims' families. we don't have that luxury of any support. any support we find, we have to go looking for it. and don't
forget, on top of that you're in the midst of possibly a trial a police investigation, as well as the trauma, as well as the stresses of trying to keep you ship afloat, when the evidence is there that this system is just failing the evidence is there that this system isjust failing right the evidence is there that this system is just failing right from the very top down and it is not being disseminated in the way that it was supposedly made to transform these lives. what is your message? what would you like to happen now?|j wa nt what would you like to happen now?” want change, i want support for families that are having to be included in this horrible offence of serious offence. i want legislation from the top. the system is not working. it is not fit for purpose at all and this was not the case in 2013 and it isn't the case now. nadine, thank you very much for speaking to us and thank you all as well. let's get the latest weather update with carol. thank you. this morning has been a
morning of mixed fortunes. some sunshine, rain, chilly start in the north of scotland, temperatures dipping into single figures and the temperatures are coming up quite nicely in the sunshine now. the rain spreading into the south and west is continuing to move northwards and will tend to fragment. taking a look at some of our weather watcher pictures from around the country, you can see the rain we have had in swanage, in dorset, quite a lot, heavyin swanage, in dorset, quite a lot, heavy in the southern counties of england. contrast that with east yorkshire. cloud around, but again dry, and the highlands getting away with some sunshine. you will hang onto that for much of the day. this low pressure is driving our weather and it will continue to introduce more rain through the course of the day and you can see from the squeeze on the isobars, we're also looking at some windy conditions. coastal gales across the south—west, the rain continuing across the channel islands and southern counties, and as it moves you will find it will
fragment so that between the rain there will be a fair bit of cloudy time but also some sunny intervals. it will also be quite windy. this afternoon after the rain has gone through the south—west of england, there will be a hang back of cloud, but you will find in the wind that cloud will break up and we will start to see improved. rain on and off across wales, the same in north—western england. that rain continuing to drift into southern scotland, but by then it will be out of northern ireland and you will have a return to sunshine, bright spells and showers. there is that rain careering towards the highlands but the heavens themselves are staying dry and in some sunshine. into north—east england and south—east scotland, still some of that rain but then a lot of cloud is being pushed out into east anglia. then back into the rain again. across the south—east corner, heading towards the isle of wight. to this evening and overnight, all that rain pushing in the direction of the north sea. it will rejuvenate across the channel islands and the south—eastern quarter of england, follow the crow road and you can see
it ensconced in northern scotland and the northern isles. it will be a humid day and night, temperatures dipping to 11 to 15—16 degrees. behind this you can see showers developing, some of those across scotla nd developing, some of those across scotland and northern ireland will be heavy and sundry with some hail. you're as we pushed down towards the south of england. in the sunshine, out of the wind, 22 celsius will feel quite pleasant. into friday, our low—pressure centres in the north sea, all the show is coming around that, across scotland, a few in northern ireland and england, and you might see a few for the south but generally the further east you travel, the better chance of staying dry with bright pleasant temperatures. hello, it's wednesday, it's10am. i'm tina daheley in for victoria derbyshire. our top story today: governors say they are devastated by the complete decline of the prison service. one says hiring more prison staff
had to be a priority. we need to have people so we can stabilise our prisons before we even start consider reforming them. more on that in just a moment. one of the world's smallest babies who beat the odds to survive after being born atjust 25 weeks. she fitted into our hand. so that's the size that she was. i was quite shocked when i saw her because i don't know what i thought she was going to look like, but she did just look like a baby and i wasn't expecting that and i remember thinking when i looked at her, she looks like a baby, just small. we will hear from poppy's parents looks like a baby, just small. we will hearfrom poppy's parents in the next half an hour. adam peaty has done the double, double. also this hour — we'll be talking to british swimming champion adam peaty about his success at the world championships last week. adam peaty will be live with us just
after 10.30am. if you have got a question for him, please get in touch. good morning. here's ben in the bbc newsroom with a summary of todays news. with a summary of today's news. recent unrest in english and welsh jails is causing "grave concern", according to the president of the prison governors association. in an open letter, andrea albutt said that members had been left "devastated" at what she called "the complete decline of our service". her comments come after two days of trouble at the mount establishment in hertfordshire. the ministry ofjustice said it was dealing with long—term challenges in prisons. there are calls to renationalise probation services following a rise in the number of supervised offenders charged with serious crimes. a total of 517 reviews were triggered in the past year after an offender on probation was charged with murder, manslaughter, rape or other serious offences. three years ago, the government changed the way probation services were run, creating the national probation service
to deal with high—risk offenders with the rest being supervised by 21 new community rehabilitation companies. the general secretary said he had repeatedly raised concerns. our members, who are working under appalling conditions, it is a as a result of privatisation saw this coming a long time ago. we told ministers of that fact. we submitted evidence to parliament. we were among 500 organisations who fore told problems with the private identitiesation. now, it is easy to make the link between further serious offences and our hearts go out to the victims of such appalling crimes, but you have got to look at the operational models that the government allowed to come into play by some of the private contractors and there have been countless
reports that they are not fit for purposesin reports that they are not fit for purposes in many cases. the duke of edinburgh will carry out his final public engagement this afternoon, before he retires from royal duty. prince philip, who's 96 years old, will attend a parade by the royal marines. in may it was announced he would be retiring after spending more than six decades supporting the queen as well as attending events for his own charities and organisations. a bbc investigation has found a growing shortfall in the number of beds needed to care for elderly people. by the end of next year it's predicted that up to 3,000 people won't be able to find a place in a care home. the association of directors of adult social services wants more spent on caring for people in their own homes. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 10.30am. you have been getting in touch on your prison story. gareth says, "i have been trouble—free since 2009. i notice the huge amount of prisoners
have been through the care system and one thing that happens a lot is thousands of small, pointless sentences clogging up the system and an inmate needs a two year sentence to really learn a trade in prison. staff shortages have been rife from about 1998." get in touch with us throughout the morning. you can use the hashtag victoria live. here's some sport now with kat. good morning. yes, we'll start with football because neymar — one of the world's footballing superstars — looks likely to leave barcelona and join the french side paris st germain. the brazilian is reported to have told his teammates that he wants to leave the spanish side. he was then given permission by manager ernesto valverde not to train today and to "sort out his future". liverpool managerjurgen klopp says he hopes daniel sturridge's thigh injury isn't serious after the striker went off injured in a pre—season friendly last night. sturridge scored his sides last goal in a 3—0 win against
bayern munich in germany but he immediately pulled up and was subbed just before full time. injuries have limited sturridge to a6 league appearances in the past three seasons. england goalkeeper karen bardsley will miss the rest of women's euro 2017 after it's been revealed she broke her leg. the manchester city keeper was injured in the second—half of sunday's quarter—final win over france, but she managed to walk off the pitch. siobhan chamberlain, who came on for bardsley, is now likely to face the netherlands in tomorrow night's semi—final. the camp was a bit down, but from kb's point of view, they rallied around and supported her. she did a fantastic job to around and supported her. she did a fantasticjob to help us get to this point at this tournament and over the last three years. she will still play a big part. man city have been great in allowing her to stay until the end of the tournament. the eight—time olympic champion usain bolt has told the bbc that if athletes continue to use drugs the sport "will die." bolt, who will run the final races of his career at the world championships in london which start this weekend, says after hitting "rock bottom",
athletics is now beginning to move forward. we're going in the right direction. i think we made changes and i think, isaid i think we made changes and i think, i said earlier that the sport is pretty much hit rock bottom last season, a couple of seasons ago. now, it's moving forward. i think it's going in the right direction. as long as athletes understand if they keep this up, the sport will die and then they won't have a job. so hopefully, athletes understand that and they will help the sport to move forward. britain's kyle edmund is through to the second round of the washington open. he beat hyeon chung of south korea in straight sets. heather watson is out of the women's singles. she was beaten in straight sets by patricia maria tig from romania, who's ranked 13a in the world, 59 places below watson. tig took both sets on tie—breaks as watson double—faulted on match—point. former england captain alastair cook believes england's experience as a test side should help them when it comes to consistency
as they prepare for the fourth test against south africa which starts on friday. they need to avoid defeat to win the series which they currently lead 2—1. as this side develops, we're getting to the stage where a lot of players have a lot of experience. if you play 30 test matches you've kind of, you understand the rigmarole of test cricket and your game a lot better than when you played one or two. we should be getting more consistent and that's the challenge for this side, that consistency which over the last 12 months there hasn't been. the fourth test against south africa starts on friday at old trafford, tina. prisons in england and wales are in crisis after "perverse" government reform and a "toxic mix" of pressures, the head of the body representing governors is warning. andrea albutt wrote an open letter after recent violence at prisons in hertfordshire and wiltshire. she says the unrest is causing "grave concern",
adding that governors faced "unacceptable stress and anxiety". we have had year on year austerities measures. part of those austerity measures was losing 7,000 prison officers and the staffing levels in prisons are critical, so we're unable to give a decent rehabilitative regime. is this a case of numbers? do we need more prison officers? that's the priority. not always prison officers. we do need more administration staff. but we need to have people so we can stabilise our prisons before we even start considering reforming them. prisons before we even start considering reforming themm that's the number one concern, the ministry ofjustice said they are already increasing the numbers? ministry ofjustice said they are already increasing the number57m the financial year 16/17 there was a net increase of 75 prison officers. this year, they are ramping things
up. the issue we've got is a high attrition rate. so whilst we may get the numbers in and there are question around the quality of the people that we're getting into our service, but we aren't keeping them because the environment is so violent in many prisons and the reward package is not good enough. so what can be done to solve that, the violence problem? well, i think, at the moment, wejust need the violence problem? well, i think, at the moment, we just need to control the situation. there is no quick fix. so on a daily basis, prison governors and their teams will be deciding what kind of regime to deliver that will keep the prison safe. then when we get the staff in, we will then start looking at how we strategically move our prisons on and start improving. in your open letter you said that governors faced unacceptable letter you said that governors faced u na cce pta ble stress letter you said that governors faced unacceptable stress and anxiety. can you give me examples? well, i think, the best example is the two incidents that occurred in the mount prison in hertfordshire over the last couple of days because that's
not, now that is not an unusual occurrence. prisoners gain control of wings and staff withdrew. so those wings have been damaged and we had to re—ta ke those wings have been damaged and we had to re—take those wings. those wings have been damaged and we had to re-take those wings. we've spoken to a governor who was critical of the fact that the prison governors' association didn't intervene when chris grayling made cuts to the prison service when he was justice secretary. cuts to the prison service when he wasjustice secretary. how do you respond to that? prison governors' association was fully involved in all of the consultation of benchmark and we did voice our concerns. as we do with everything, but that doesn't necessarily mean to say that we can stop government policy. is this too late then? could you have done more and should you have spoken out earlier? no, i don't agree with that. i think we have done as much as we can and we consistently do this. i think what's interesting at the moment is our secretary of state, david lidington, his silence has been deafening on the issue of prisons. he has inherited prisons
that are in a significantly challenging situation and he has said nothing. the prisons minister, he was our prisons minister in the last, he has retained that position. he has been unable to meet with us until mid—october. so it isn't a case of the prison governors' association aren't doing anything, but the government don't seem to be receptive to talking to us. how bad do you feel the situation is becoming? well, the situation, the violence statistics that came out last week, were the worst ever. i don't expect them to improve in the next quarter. so, the situation is bad. and until we get sufficient staff in our prison, the situation we're in will continue so, we will continue to try and control the situation in our prisons, but we will not be delivering in a
significant number of our prisons good, quality rehabilitative regimes, we will be holding and controlling the people in our care and this is unacceptable. 0k, we can now speak to man who used to be the governor of brixton and he is the author of out of sight, out of mind, why britain's prisons are failing. good morning. what's your response? i agree with much of what andrea is saying. the prison governors' association didn't fight hard enough against the benchmarking process against the benchmarking process against which cuts were made. there are no quick fixes. we need more prison staff and we need fewer prisoners, but we need a better strategic approach from the pga and we're not getting it. can you take me through a typical day in the life
of somebody who is working at one of these prisons? can you tell me how bad it is? well, i'm not the person to ask as i'm not currently working in english prisons, but it will be extremely stressful. prisons work on staff prisoner relationships. you run prisons on co—operation and you know a good day for a prisoner and a good day for a prison officer is when there is dialogue, and when there is mutual interest and when prisoners have got investment in the regime and when prison staff are able to engage with prisoners about their difficulties and their resettlement and those staff—prisoner relationships have broken down and they've broken down because as andrea said you can't lose # 500 prison officers with a lot of experience and then try and replace them with 2500 straight ot of the training school and the training in this country is the shortest of any jurisdiction training in this country is the shortest of anyjurisdiction that i've worked in. so you've got prison
officers who demoralised and demotivated and poorly trained, poorly recompensed as well and they are retreating into a corner. regimes get less and less. so prisoners have, i think, we have seen this in many of the disturbances. they have not nothing to lose. the month is a prison for people towards the end of their sentence who are looking to be resettled in the local area. and enemies number one but are people up and go back into our communities. —— people up and go back into our communities. -- these are not public enemies number one. being released on temporary licence, where prisoners can go out and work in the community, spend some money, prepare
for release. that is what should be happening, not prisoners being locked up 23 hours a day. i have lost track of the rules and regulations as to who's gift release on temporary licence is, but it should be governors. it is governors taking risks that i am afraid they need to take. can you tell me about, john, this unacceptable stress and anxiety that andrew talks about in the letter, that governors are facing? it will be huge. because of this breakdown in relationships, prisons become very tense. and governors going in first thing in the morning will be worried, firstly, how many staff are going to turn up. there are no figures i have seen recently about staff sickness. i suspect it is very high. andrew has referred to the turnover, so you have experienced people going in, so the governor will come in first
thing in the morning. how many staff does he have? what kind of regime can he run? it becomes a bit of a downward spiral. the furious that he has got, or she has got, —— the fewer staff that he or she has got. the more reluctant prison officers are to unlock the prisoners, and we then end up with the situation we saw the mount and many other prisons. john, thank you very much for speaking to us this morning. still to come — we'll be talking to british swimming champion adam peaty following his success at the world championships last week. if you have a burning question for him, do get in touch. kanye west's touring company is suing lloyd's of london more than £7 million over the rapper's cancelled gigs. very good touring said in a legal document that the insurers have implied they can refuse to pay out by claiming his mental health issues were caused by marijuana use.
sinead can tell us more about this. you might remember towards the end of this tour, when he cancelled, it was 21 dates of the same tour, he had been ranting, a bit unusual onstage, played the songs at the last gig, which i think was in sacramento, california. started talking about beyonce and jay—z, who previously were their friends, all this kind of stuff, then he left. the next thing we heard was about police being called to his house, and he was then taken to hospital and he was then taken to hospital and assessed, and we were told he had severe exhaustion and therefore couldn't go ahead with the rest of his tour. so have the insurers said why they are not paying out? they have not actually said anything apart from that they cannot comment on legal on goings, but kanye's company has been very vocal about
why they think they are not paying out. they say that they have indicated, the insurers, they believe that kanye west's mental breakdown was due to the fact that he was using marijuana and therefore they don't have to pay out, but kanye's they don't have to pay out, but ka nye's company are they don't have to pay out, but kanye's company are really angry about this. they say kanye was medically tested independently by a doctor that was put up by the insurer's company so they have all these facts, so i don't think they will stop fighting this, because it isa will stop fighting this, because it is a lot of money they will lose. stage and to social media for updates on this, i am guessing, from ka nye. updates on this, i am guessing, from kanye. well, maybe. sinead, thank you very much. next this morning — this is poppi wicks — she's one of the smallest babies in the world who's survived after being born atjust 25 weeks — one week after the abortion limit. she weighed less than a pound when she was born and her parents were told her survival chances were slim.
now five months on — she's home and living with herfamily — and her parents hannah wicks and steve mcsween have been speaking to me she will be 21 weeks on thursday. how much the she weigh now? she's alb ten now. when she was born she weighed just under a pound? yes. how is she now? she's doing really well, she settled in well at home. all her test results that she had before she left hospital have come back clear. so she's doing well. what we can see there is a portable oxygen tank and the she have to be what we told then? —— on that all the time at the moment? we thought that it was a syndrome that was incompatible with life, is how he put it. so i then had to have an amniocentesis done. thankfully, that came back clear. what does that mean, for people who don't know? it's when they put a needle through your tummy into the womb and they collect some of the amniotic fluid around the baby.
and then they test it using the chromosomes in it. so you were told there was no way you get the full term? yes. how did you feel when you received that news? just shocked, i think. you just don't ever think it's going to happen to you. we were both shocked, won't we? yes. even now, when we look back on it and we don't know how we got through it. at the time, what options were you given? we were told could end a pregnancy. we were told we could carry on and she would maybe pass away, but he said the likelihood was quite high that we'd lose her and i'd have to give birth to a stillborn. or try and get her as far along as we could, and deliver. but that was risky because we could have lost her at any minute. so at 18 weeks, as i understand it, a doctor told you poppi would be dead on your next scan? yes. can you put into words how you felt when you were told that newsa at that moment? com pletely completely numb. it was like he was telling somebody else. it was my second pregnancy, and it was like, someonejust second pregnancy, and it was like, someone just told us second pregnancy, and it was like, someonejust told us it second pregnancy, and it was like, someone just told us it wasn't going to happen, and it wasjust
heartbreaking, wasn't it? steve, did you believe she would survive?” ke pt you believe she would survive?” kept saying, she has got this far, so she will not stop now. we believe there was no option to give up on her because she had not given up on us. what was it like going into hospitalfor an us. what was it like going into hospital for an emergency caesarean at 25 weeks knowing that she might not make it? what was going through your mind in the operating theatre? i was find myself until they said to us, we are about to deliver, and then i started crying, because i just thought, this is it now. she is either going to make it or she is not. it is out of my hands. it was weird, wasn't it? we had been waiting for it to happen so long. everything we went to the doctors, we got this will be the time they ta ke we got this will be the time they take us there, and he would just say, come back in a couple of hours, and we will get you prepped and ready, and we sort of left to get ready, and we sort of left to get ready and thought, all of a sudden,
oh, no, it is happening now.” ready and thought, all of a sudden, oh, no, it is happening now. iwill just remind our viewers the survival rate for babies born at 25 weeks is 59%. if poppi had been born a week earlier, it would be 39%. how do you feel about the fact that she was born only one week after the abortion limit? we are pro-choice. both of us, aren't you? we think it is the individual‘s decision. personally, i think it is too late. i think it should be lowered. can you describe how small poppi was when she was born? i know that she weighed just under our pound, but can you put into words what it was like to see her that size? she fitted into our hands, so that is the size she was. i was quite shocked when i saw her, because i don't know what i thought she was going to look like, but she did just look like a baby, and i wasn't expecting that. i remember thinking
when i looked at her, she looks like a baby. just small. tiny, she could fit into the palm of your hand. you have brought in some of her baby clothes. let's have a look at this one. when did poppi where this? that was her first baby grow that she went into, around ten weeks. at ten weeks she was wearing this. what else do you have? this was her first nappy, up else do you have? this was her first nappy, up against the nappy she is wearing no. that must have been cut to size? yes, it was still too big for her, to be cut. how long was she in hospital? 17 weeks. how aware you of long—term complications and risks poppi may face in later life? we we re poppi may face in later life? we were told she had a high chance of getting cerebral palsy, but she had
quite a few brain scans when she was m, quite a few brain scans when she was in, and she never had any bleeding of the brain, and she had a routine mri scan before she came home which has come back we are, so so far, so good. and i hope it continues that way. thank you so much for coming in and bringing poppi in. a beautiful little girl. thank you for sharing your story with us. poppi wicks and her parents, hannah and steve. one million malnourished and starving children are now at risk of dying from cholera in yemen — says the charity save the children. the disease is spreading quickly throughout the country — where millions are already starving. malnourished children have substantially weaker immune systems and are at least three times more likely to die if they contract cholera. after two years of violence and conflict, clean water is hard to come by, and yemen's children are now trapped in a brutal cycle of starvation and sickness. here's a look at how the crisis has engulfed the country —
and a warning that the clip we're about to show you has some distressing images. let's talk now to saleh saeed, chief executive of disasters emergency committee — they recently launched an emergency appeal for yemen. shabia mantoo is on the ground for unhcr and sees people daily from the ‘cholera hotspots.‘ dr mariam aldogani, is a yemeni doctor that specialises in helping pregnant women with cholera for save the children. i will start with you, shabia. what
are you seeing? it is getting worse every single day. people killed by the conflict, and now we have the cholera epidemic. i am seeing people every single day, women, children, people suffering the most, and lots of them are susceptible to cholera and disease, and they are also trying to escape for safety. nowhere is safe. they have all moved multiple times and are trying to avoid bombs and are living in very unsanitary conditions where cholera is easily transmitted, so it is very u nsafe is easily transmitted, so it is very unsafe and people are also going hungry. we are dealing with the largest security emergency in the world, so we are seeing people just do not have enough food to eat. they are lucky to get one meal per day but really they don't know where their next meal is coming from. it is an inventory of misery in all aspects. sana'a is the largest city in yemen. if you're walking through some of the more rural areas, it would be even worse. what we do see people eating if you were walking through one of those areas, because
it is so far removed from people here it would be good to get a sense of that from your? in rural areas it is very difficult for people to get assistance. out there, what we see in fact there's lots of people living in makeshift shelters that have to be on the move, who have to try to avoid conflict, so we see of makeshift shelters. there is little protection against the elements and they don't have enough food. the average person i they don't have enough food. the average person i speak to that has been displaced, they tell me what they eat, and their meal a day is actually just black tea they eat, and their meal a day is actuallyjust black tea and a piece of bread, that is what they live on. people are malnourished and also people with sicknesses who are now even more vulnerable to more disease, people are just languishing without health care, without adequate food, without shelter, in very dire circumstances. this has been going on since the beginning of the conflict, so it is the third year with people are living like that. it also means local communities they are relying on,
they are also overstretched, so we arejust seeing this they are also overstretched, so we are just seeing this widespread, people just really, in the true essence of the word, struggling to survive, struggling to stay alive. and what is even worse is that cholera should be easily preve nta ble. cholera should be easily preventable. how bad is the situation as you see it, doctor? last week i saw the cholera cases in one of the treatment centres and i saw a lot of cases lying on the ground. especially the pregnant women. i can give you two stories about one regular nant woman. she was about one regular nant woman. she wasjust crying about one regular nant woman. she was just crying and afraid to lose their baby. she came from a remote area and she paid a lot to get assistance and we tried to calm her
down so she could get treatment, but she told me there is some pregnant women, they lose their baby due to the cholera, i saw another woman. she is is crying. and i told her, "why are you crying? you are afraid of dying? " "why are you crying? you are afraid of dying?" she said i am afraid of my of dying?" she said i am afraid of b, of dying?" she said i am afraid of they of dying?" she said i am afraid of my baby, they are alone. they didn't have food and no one take care of him. what is on the ground is more worse. it is more worse. we are struggling to get some medicine, especially for the pregnant women. the block of the airport and seaboard, this has caused a lot of stress on the health workers and in addition to the health system collapse. more than ten months the
public health workers didn't get their salaries. we have severe and huge shortages in medical supplies and medical equipment. i'm worried that the cholera cases will increase because the risk management systems are not there and we have now the rainy season and the water source will be contaminated which will create a lot of cases and children will return to school and this will aggravate the situation. one of the stories that one mother didn't know that she cannot know that she need to breast—feed her child because of her cholera is six months old and she lifted him and they died. the
baby died because of starving and the mother died because she had the cholera and she didn't have enough money to refer her to the nearest treatment centre. this is the situation. i'm really sorry to hear that. we were talking about yemen for a while and there was a photograph a starving girl that came torve's attention. we're not talking about yemen anymore, why? the situation in the yemen is getting worse. 20 million people in need of humanitarian assistance and that figure has grown by two million. journalists are finding it extremely extremely difficult to get into yemen and report on the crisis. we have had our own disasters in the uk. yemen has been forgotten or been ignored and it is the world's largest humanitarian crisis. we know when the public know about the
crisis in yemen, they are generous. an appeal raised £2a million and so far with that generous support we've reached two million people with life—saving equipment, food, water and including a response to the cholera outbreak. can you see foresee this situation which sounds so dire, can you see it improving any time soon? sadly not. this is a shame on humanity and a shame on the world powers and including the warring parties on the ground that continue to create this conflict, create conflict, create hunger, and cholera and innocent children are dying on a daily basis. so, you know, we need to bring the warring parties to book and make sure that innocent children are saved. thank you all for speaking to us about it this morning. wes tweeted and said, "how long can the world just watch in silence at what is happening in yemen?" i'm tina daheley in for
victoria derbyshire. next, he's broken multiple world records — many of them his own — and taken home a handful of gold medals. adam peaty is a swimming superstar and the fastest breaststroker on the planet! last week in the world swimming championships he broke his own record in the 50 metre breaststroke twice and he won gold in both the 100 and 50 metres. we'll speak to him injust a moment, but first let's take a look at his successes. absolutely fantastic. adam peaty ta kes absolutely fantastic. adam peaty takes gold for great britain. yes! 0h, he has done it! wow! that's all i can say. i don't know whether to cry. i'm ecstatic. i'm so proud of him. commentator: peaty is starting to
streak ahead. 21.0 is the world record. i never thought i would see the day when a breaststroke swimmer would go 25 seconds. it is all about adam peaty. goodness me the margin of victory, that was phenomenal. peaty is making the rest of the world reset their dreams because theirdreams are no world reset their dreams because their dreams are no longer quick enough and the time 25.99, just outside of his own world record. and the rest of the world is starting to come with him, you know, they really tried, but no one got within half a second of great britain's adam peaty. and adam is here with us now. we are delighted to have you on the programme, adam. can i first of all ask you how many times have you watched your races back?l ask you how many times have you watched your races back? a lot actually! post rio i watched that race so many times for motivation, the day in and day out grind, the ones there from last week, i haven't
watched yet, but i'm sure i will get to it when my nan shoves it down my throat! what goes through your mind going into the competition, do you see yourself winning, but breaking your own world record twice? yeah, i mean, it's very different for me because every time i go into a meet i try and start with nothing, i don't realise what i've done until i've done t i don't look back at rio and say i need to, you know, do that again. ijust start and say i need to, you know, do that again. i just start with nothing. this is how it's going to work. this is how much i trained for and this is how much i trained for and this is what i've changed this season. i just go out there and race as fast asi just go out there and race as fast as i can and try and swim breaststroke as fast as i can. correct me if it is more, but i think it is five world golds, that sounds like global domination to me. so what's next? so, yeah, i'mjust going to celebrate now and put it all in the past and enjoy it, for what it is and yeah, i mean, i have got ten years left in this sport,
i'm still quite young which is a very, very good thing to have on my side. i'm hoping someone will come out out of the woodwork and challenge me, because that's what sport and sport needs. people need rivalries and i'm looking forward to that and hopefully that will push me on more. so you that and hopefully that will push me on more. so you are that and hopefully that will push me on more. so you are looking for a challenger, that will make things more exciting? hopefully someone is watching that and saying, "yes, i can take him on." who are your role models? we will get on to your mum, your coach and your gran aside. muhammad ali has been my main role model, the way he sold the sport and the way he reacted and the way he predicted his rounds, i read most of his books and yeah, sport is com pletely his books and yeah, sport is completely mental and the athlete is the mind and the body is simply the means and that's the one quote i live by. going back to your family. i know you said a lot of your
success is down to the support you have from your coach, your mum and yourgrandma, she is have from your coach, your mum and your grandma, she is famous in her own right, how much influence have they had? massive influence. my mum used to drive me all the way to the pool at aam and used to stay at the pool at aam and used to stay at the pool and watch me train and go back to work for 8am and i used to go to school and she used to collect me from school and go to the pool for 6pm and didn't get back to 11.30pm and she was working a full—time job and she was working a full—time job and taking me back and forth from training. it is a huge, huge gamble because it couldn't have paid off, but she gave me the best possible outcome really. what does she think about your success? does she, does yourfamily about your success? does she, does your family treat you dmeumpbly? my family always ground me. it is great fof my nan around and my family have a lwa ys fof my nan around and my family have always been there from day one and fully supported my dream and my vision that i had so clearly. how is may have is. i know she hadn't flown
for 20 years, but flew to see you in budapest. did she say it was worth it? she loved it. she had her bags packed five weeks before. she loved it. how much does the support that you have drive you? i imagine, you're so young, you've had to make sacrifices a long the way in terms of, you know, your training is so intense, i heard that you train for two hour sessions three times a day, six days a week? yeah, training is so, so intense. six days a week and around 35 hours a week, proper intense training. so it's a very, very tough sport to be part of, but no, ijust put in pros pktive, i could be doing something i hate and i get to travel the world and get to meet amazing people from all different backgrounds and i wouldn't change it for the world. we have a superfan who wants to speak to you. 11—year—old aidan got in touch from plymouth. over to you aidan. hi adam. hi, aidan, how are you doing?
good. you? good, thanks. do you swim? i swim. what's your favourite stroke? fly. amazing. iwon't see you racing me any time soon. yes. awesome, keep training hard and hopefully one day you will get a few gold medals. aidan, what's your question for adal? if you could give a word of inspiration to a swimmer what, would it be? honestly, enjoy it. you're very young. don't take yourself too seriously. go out there, in training and hammer train every day and consistency is the key to success, but at the same time make sure you enjoy it because as soon as that enjoyment has gone, then your performance will decease because if you're having fun with it and you're not taking yourself too seriously, you will go in there and
hopefully shock the world with your performances. rebecca adams, we are joined by, from glasgow who wants to speak to you and ask you a question. hi rebecca. well done. thank you very much. did you ever imagine that you would be world champion. what advice would you give to competitive swimmers? a few years ago i was like i want to make the olympic team. i didn't think i would come back with an olympic gold medal and world record. i started from the bottom and worked my way up and that was from the day in and day out grind and surrounding myself with positive people around me and yeah, that's the way it has always been really and each day ijust strive for perfection and kind of got that. keep enjoying it and keep working ha rd keep enjoying it and keep working hard and make sure you're working smart at the same time because you don't want to be bashing up and down
that pool if you're not focussing on an area where you're trying to improve. thank you. that's ok. adam, how often are you getting recognised? honestly, i haven't been home! from budapesti recognised? honestly, i haven't been home! from budapest i have been very busy trying to spread the message that you can come from the bottom of the bottom and work your way all the way up and honestly, i want to thank eve ryo ne way up and honestly, i want to thank everyone for the support in budapest and rio and hopefully i'm going to do you proud. people find it so interesting to hear about your lifestyle and training, but how much you eat. how many calories are you consuming every day when you're training? i could easily do about 8000 calories. 8000 calories! what would you eat for that? on a typical day? winter is a lot different than summer, because i need that extra muscle mass or i could have, you
know, pancakes, obviouslyi muscle mass or i could have, you know, pancakes, obviously i would have another breakfast after training, like, beans on toast, chicken, literally anything. there is so much food. but i try to eat quite little and often, so i am not getting too bloated so i can still train extremely hard, but at the same time in summer i will be having salads for ten weeks before budapest, and the diet there is extremely strict. i know that you hated water initially, or so your mum tells everybody. i still have a fear of deep water. any tips for me? how did you get over it? honestly, just enjoy it. i keep telling eve ryo ne just enjoy it. i keep telling everyone to enjoy it, but that is really the key. surround yourself with people in the same situation, people scared of deepwater, go out with them and just make it fun. honestly, even if on holiday, ove rco m e honestly, even if on holiday, overcome that fear. but i always learned the best way of overcoming fear is just to go straight ahead m, fear is just to go straight ahead
in, don't even think about it, and before you know it you have already ove rco m e before you know it you have already overcome it. usain bolt has the lightning bolt, and you are entering legend status. what is your signature move going to be?” legend status. what is your signature move going to be? i don't know. i have been thinking of this for a few years now and i can't think of anything. maybe we should get our review to send in some suggestions for you. that would be amazing laughter and the other thing i wanted to ask, because people have spoken about your techniques, not strictly a breaststroke, kind of a hybrid, can you give us a little demonstration? what you want to do... people say you need to be a streamlined as possible, but when it comes to your hands, you don't want to be tense like this, but i'd like that, a few millimetres, push them that way, grab the water, then come all the way up, so like this, and shop the water like that, so your likes don't really co m e water like that, so your likes don't really come further out than your hip.
really come further out than your hip, so you don't want to hit the water there, but you want to be nice and streamlined, powerful and efficient, but especially the breast stroke is all about relaxation and composure, but at the same time keeping it calm and powerful. you have just given away your secrets on live television! we have some very quickfire questions for you. we heard all about that training, sacrifice. what are your bad habits, your guiltiest pleasure? pancakes, any day. i love to eat pancakes. last time you got drunk? the other day after budapest, yes. tell us secret about you. i don't know actually. not quickfire, is it? we will pass on that. weirdest thing you have done to prepare for a race? honestly i don't know... i like to get myself in the zone, like to meditate little bit, thenjust get myself in the zone, like to meditate little bit, then just get my head straight. last time you cried? oh... probably after rio,
with my mum. if you could do anything with your life apart from swimming, what would it be?” anything with your life apart from swimming, what would it be? i would probably be in the army. wanted to join the royal marines from a young age but that dream got overtaken with swimming. sorry for asking this in advance, but how often do you wee in the pool? everyday! laughter we will leave it there. adam peaty, thanks very much indeed. it has been an absolute pleasure. we hope you get a well—deserved rest over the summer. thank you. prince philip retires today at the grand old age of 96 having completed more that 22,000 solo engagements since 1952. the duke of edinburgh has been known for his off the cuff remarks which have sometimes shocked and sometimes delighted us in equal measure. let's take a look. we can speak now to our royal correspondent sarah campbell. why is he retiring now? what a lot of official engagements.
22,219 solo engagement since 1952. why is he retiring now? he is doing a course called himself the world's most experienced plaque unveiled, and he's probably right. he said he felt he had done his bit recently, but then there were a busy few yea rs, but then there were a busy few years, the queen's jubilee, but then there were a busy few years, the queen'sjubilee, the queen's 90th birthday, the olympics, so that is all done and we are at a bit of a loyal and we had the announcement back in may. a surprise announcement, and it seems ridiculous to say and 96—year—old gave a surprise announcement that he was retiring, but he did, so he will be stepping back from public engagements after 65 years accompanying the queen. the final engagement takes place today. what is it? it is at buckingham palace, appropriately enough, and with the royal marines, again fairly appropriate because as we all know he gave it a very glittering career, his potential with the royal navy,
backin his potential with the royal navy, back in the 1950s when the queen exceeded the throne, so he was appointed captain general of the royal marines back in the 1950s, and really this is the sort of celebration of that, of the royal marines. they have been doing some amazing things. running 16.6a miles for 100 days to celebrate them and their charity, and prince philip is their charity, and prince philip is the captain general will be celibate in that. there will be a royal salute and three cheers for duke at buckingham palace this afternoon.” know he is officially retiring, but can we still expect him to attend some engagements, as he chooses, with the queen? absolutely, i think thatis with the queen? absolutely, i think that is it. the ability to pick and choose. the direct is very much set out in stone, so at least this gives him the ability to say, i will do this, i will not do that, but, yes, i think we shall then we'll expect to see him but also to expect other members of the royal family to step up members of the royal family to step up and support the queen, prince william, who just last week finished
his tenure at the inner anglers, he is coming back to london so he will be on the seymour. we will see more of prince harry and the rest of the family stepping up —— just last week finished his tenure at the royal air ambulance. some more work for all of them. one way to put it. sarah campbell, find you very much indeed. just to let you know some channel numbers are changing. bbc hd will remain at 107. some televisions will update automatically but you might need to reach in your tv or free view box. bbc news will remain where it is, however. —— you might need to retu ne it is, however. —— you might need to retune your box. the bbc‘s announced details of a new tv cookery competition. britain's best cook will be hosted by claudia winkleman with mary berry as head judge.
she left the great british bake off last year when it was announced the show was moving from the bbc to channel a. it's inevitably led to some accusations that the new prog will be a gbbo rip off. as if you need any reminder — here's mary berry at her best. the moisture in here... well, that's the rum and the wines. .. it's part of how you'd make the black rum cake. oh, come on! happy days. mary's pupils are dilated. oh, dear. oh dear... the bottom is a custard. we see you've got that mottled effect on the top like that. what a disappointment. so how different do we think the show is going to be? let ask buzzfeed's tv editor, scott bryan, and the former great british bake off contestant chetna makan. is it
really surprising channel a would criticise this, the new baking show with mary berry. she already presents another show, doesn't she? yes, and we don't know exactly how the show will be made up. we don't know the otherjudges, about the show will be made up. we don't know the other judges, about where it will be filmed, we just don't know the details about how distinctive it is going to be. the fa ct distinctive it is going to be. the fact is that if the bbc tries to go and doa fact is that if the bbc tries to go and do a show that as a direct replacement of the great british bake off, that anxiety is it will be to quite a lot of saturation. we will have 20, 30 weeks a year of co nsta nt ba ke will have 20, 30 weeks a year of constant bake off, and even myself asafan, constant bake off, and even myself as a fan, it is a bit much. let's go to chetna defended what you think about this news. good morning. hello. i think it is very exciting, andl hello. i think it is very exciting, and i think what mary berry did for
us bakers around the country through a bake off, she might do the same for cooking for all of us here. channel a has criticised it, saying there are similarities and it has been called a rip—off. does that bother you? not really, because we don't know what channel a are producing in the first place. with bake off. and we don't know any details about this show either, so no. thank you. scott, what do we not in terms of differences and similarities? this has been one of the most talked about stories of the past year? i would say one of the key differences is it will all be about cooking, and i think that is one of the most distinctive element about it, the fact that it is a show format that has not necessarily been done that much. we saw masterchef with people really high up in their field who have been competing, and there is nothing necessarily varied you can try to do in your own home, andi you can try to do in your own home, and i think that will be kind of
what the bbc will be aiming for as there are distinctiveness for this particular show. apart from that, we don't know! so little detail, and i think everyone is so excited because mary berry is in it. this has made front—page news today, so why is everybody getting so excited? do we know of any similarities?” everybody getting so excited? do we know of any similarities? i think firstly tabloid and all of the media just like getting excited about the whole bake of journey just like getting excited about the whole bake ijourney that is happening. i think only us brits can make a show that is a multi million success , make a show that is a multi million success, back in the show, only leading to being bumped from one channel to another. so lots of questions over whether channel a will be able to make it a success, and then also about what will fill that gap, that whole, so that is why there is a much anticipation of this. i think unfortunately it will create a lot of pressure on this show to immediately be successful from the off. on the bbc show? yes,
the bbc one, because there will be a lot more pressure essentially about it, whereas i think with other programmes they will have some time to make themselves successful. all right, we will wait and see. i will be back tomorrow when we will be speaking to rugby union legend johnny wilkinson. thank you for your company today. see you tomorrow. some wind in the rain today thanks to low pressure in charge of viral weather. we have this tracking north eastwards for much of the heavy rain around the south coast. gusts of up to ao-so around the south coast. gusts of up to a0—50 mph across devon and cornwall, and gradually that they will push north and east ridge. northern and western parts of scotla nd northern and western parts of scotland hanging the best of the sunshine for much of the daylight hours today with temperatures ranging from 15—20 celsius. through
the rush hour, not very nice along the rush hour, not very nice along the south coast, wet and windy, and the south coast, wet and windy, and the rain will gradually push into the rain will gradually push into the north sea. behind that, we will start to see some showers coming in and some of those will be heavy as well. overnight lows, 12—16 celsius, and then tomorrow is a day of sunshine and blustery showers, some heavy, with a mix of hail and thunder particularly the further west you are. north and east, perhaps try with the odd showers and some sunshine to look forward to as well. temperatures up to 22 celsius. this is bbc news — and these are the top stories
developing at 11. prison governors attack the government's management of prisons in england and wales — saying the service is in complete decline. drug poisoning deaths surge to a record level — more than 3,700 were registered last year. there is a growing shortfall in the number of beds needed to care for the elderly across the uk, according to a bbc investigation. also: after 65 years of royal service the duke of edinburgh will retire today after a service for the royal marines at buckingham palace.