of the state as torrential rain continues to fall in the wake of tropical storm harvey. the flooding has forced a number of oil and gas refineries to shut down. at least 20 people are known to have died. president trump has said talking is not the answer to the north korea missile crisis. pyongyang warned tuesday's missile test overjapan was the first step of military operations in the pacific. but the us defence secretary, james mattis, has insisted there is still room for diplomacy. thursday marks the 20th anniversary of the death of princess diana in paris. her sons william and harry have visited a memorial garden that's been created at london's kensington palace in memory of their mother. the white garden is dedicated to princess diana's life and work. now on bbc news, hardtalk. hello and welcome to hardtalk, i'm
sure they. it's the divorce of the century but who will pay the bill? as the uk negotiates its exit from the european union, the optimists believe it can reshape local trade, freeing it from the barriers to outsiders that any customs union of group of countries creates. that task is harder, though, because british running as the theresa may threw away her parliamentary majority in a general election that's left the government severely weakened. my guest today nicky morgan is worried about brexit, and indeed opposed it, and her view matters, not just indeed opposed it, and her view matters, notjust because she used to be in the british cabinet but because she has taken the chair of one of the uk's most important watchdogs, the treasury select committee. she has described herself as an insurgent, who or what is she prepared to overthrow? nicky morgan, welcome to hardtalk.
after you were dismissed from the cabinet by theresa may when she became prime minister you said i'm revelling in being part of the awkward squad. should the government be worried? thank you first of all for having me. i think when you're released if you like from the bounce of collective responsibility it's nice to be able to ask the questions from the backbenches that you otherwise couldn't have asked. yes, i think as you said in your introduction, brexit is a huge deal for this country in so many different ways and i think there are a lot of us who have many questions still to be answered at we'll do that and the more you put former ministers onto back benches and into
select committees, we know how government works, we know which buttons to press. you are in the, a sense the people who have motive and opportunity because you're not worried about chances of promotion any more, you said you're not interested in sucking up to anybody, you're the insurgents now. it's about asking those questions...m it because you want to halt and reverse brexit? look, i don't renege from the fact i was a committed campaigner for the remains i'd from the fact i was a committed campaignerfor the remains i'd the debate. you accept it's going to happen, no second referendum? i'm not in favour of a second referendum. —— remains side. ithink we have a situation now that needs to be negotiated in the national interests above the point is, and i think this brexit issue if you like has put before politicians that question of country before party or which way does it work in a way that
i haven't seen, certainly i've been in parliament for seven years, i've been involved in the conservative party for 28 years, i haven't seen that question put in this way before. this is fundamental stuff that affects not just before. this is fundamental stuff that affects notjust internal political british life but has implications for the national interest and potentially for europe and even beyond that? absolutely, one of the reasons i was a committed remain campaigner was our geopolitical place in the world, we had more power and influence being influential in the eu, that's what oui’ influential in the eu, that's what our allies around the world wanted us our allies around the world wanted us to be. look, that's not going to be the case, we're still going to have a deep and special prutton ship, as the prime minister says, with europe. the prime minister hopes that will be the case and that depends on negotiations which began again before we were speaking a couple of days. you've asked for further information from the bank of england about the invocations of brexit but you're not exactly asking a neutral player. mark carney, the governor of the bank, was heavily
criticised about... many of which have not come to place. in a sense he's one of the experts your cabinet colleague, former cabinet colleague michael gove said the british had heard enough from. there was a whole point behind that, it was shortened to we're not listening to experts now. i think mark carney, the bag of england governor, was right to warn of the potential consequences —— bank of england. of course at the moment brexit hasn't happened and we are some way from that split, expected in march, 2019. i think we're beginning to see that working its way through the economy. even the questions you're posing our kind of loaded, aren't they? you talk about the cliff edge facing businesses when we leave, it's going to be in your view a cliff edge we're going to be dropping off. it's a cause for concern. you say the risks of the eu not agreeing a divorce agreement with britain views
on the... this is nicky morgan who wa nted on the... this is nicky morgan who wanted to remain in the eu revelling in being the awkward squad, to quote your words. i think you are able, as a politician, i'm a former lawyer as well, to take on the role as a chair ofa well, to take on the role as a chair of a select committee. you are there to hold government accountable to parliament. parliament is going to be hugely important in this process, we're asking the questions our constituents want us to ask. but i think anybody that thinks brexit is going to be easy and painless has not been straight with the british public. these things are always doable, there will be a negotiation, i very much expect that there will be an end a deal, but it's going to be an end a deal, but it's going to be bumpy and people are realising that. what do you make of how the european union is handling these negotiations? a couple of days ago jean—claude juncker, president of the commission, said he's seen all the commission, said he's seen all the proposition papers the british
government submitted in the summer, a substantial pile of papers, and he said none of them is satisfactory. it's to be expected. i was eu budget minister for a it's to be expected. i was eu budget ministerfor a while a it's to be expected. i was eu budget minister for a while a couple of yea rs minister for a while a couple of years ago and eu negotiations, both sides often dance around a bit and a deal is done often towards the end of the allotted time. i wouldn't expect any less or any more from the eu at the moment. 0n those position papers, though, i do have to wonder that it's good to see the details and the clarity that we now have but there's a lot still to be resolved. ido there's a lot still to be resolved. i do wonder how it's taken 12 months to get to that particular level of detail. i think a select committee chairmen like me and parliament will ask for a lot more detail. british ministers can be expected to be hauled in front of you more frequently than over the last year or so by the previous committee? the previous committees have been very active already but there was plenty of cross—examination and i think committees like mine and others won't just be focusing committees like mine and others won'tjust be focusing on our own
ministers if you like, normally the treasury select committee would quiz treasury select committee would quiz treasury ministers, but they will also go further and there may well be other relevant enquiries where we will ask in other ministers too because brexit is such a big thing, it crosses so much of government. would you like to hear from the prime minister because in a sense she embodies the whole government. the chairs of the select committee are part of a bigger committee called the liaison committee that quizzes the prime minister twice a year at least so i would expect at least that brexit will come up in the next liaison committee meeting. in terms of the particular proposals, there's prostration not on the british side only, the association of german chambers of commerce and industry said in the course of this week that politicians need to put shared economic interests first —— frustration. it's really worried about the delays in this process, it says it wants a temporary customs arrangement with britain for this transition period.
do you share that ambition that they should at least have something in place very soon so that we are then able to prepare the ground for the sist able to prepare the ground for the 31st of march and that businesses don't find something that will almost change overnight? one of the important moves this summer, and exceptions from the british government that there will be a transition period asked for —— an acceptance. we don't know what the eu will offer up. it's very important to listen to the voice of business, not least because they are critical to a strong economy, they are employers and i think it's very encouraging to hear the views of german business as well and they will no doubt be talking to their own government. i think the issue is, although we haven't technically until march, 2019 actually... it will be before that period when the negotiations end because there has to be time for the eu and uk parliaments to approve the final agreements. we also know, and i'll be asking for further evidence on this, that british businesses,
particularly financial institutions, are going to make decisions within the next few months, if not weeks, about where they're going to locate, where their employees are going to be, how they set themselves up in europe going forward, so we don't have 18 months, i think we probably have 18 months, i think we probably have a matter of six to seven months to really get to the nub of this. those are options, of course they're going to look at what we would do if britain actually were to be unable to agree a deal with the european union, that's entirely prudent. it's a bit like the uk businesses that we re a bit like the uk businesses that were considering leaving scotland if scotla nd were considering leaving scotland if scotland had voted to leave. now here we are going to leave but that's not to say there's not going to be an arrangement. let me put to you what jarryd lyons said, the people who backed brexit said in the sun in august, he said that the city of london is the best. the threat is
moving elsewhere. it's not europe, amsterdam, frankfurt, it's not paris, much as they would would wish it was. to follow a famous phrase, he would say that, wouldn't he, given his views. he used to work with your colleague, the foreign secretary borisjohnson. with your colleague, the foreign secretary boris johnson. we know which side boris is on in the referendum debate. we the point is there i number of differences, we know some of the banks are looking seriously at frankfurt, we know paris is on manoeuvres to tempt business overseas and we know businesses are preparing. your right to say of course everyone hopes we don't get to a cliff edge no deal scenario but they have to prepare for the worst—case and making decisions employment, finding the local regulatory licenses, those ta ke local regulatory licenses, those take months, not weeks, not days, so people are preparing. one hoggies colleagues, professor patrick minford, said brexit can be compared to the event that gave birth to your
modern political party, the repeal of the corn laws and he says we should simply abolish trade barriers without asking others to do the same, just as we did in 18116 when sir robert peel, that revolutionary insurgent in uk politics, basically abandoned the pricey form of protectionism that kept up the price of corn when farmers in britain were under pressure. it reduced the price of fruit, it helped stimulate the industrial revolution, never mind changing the whole political dynamic and arguably providing the base on which the conservative party still thrives, the party of free trade and enterprise. patrick mentored was one of the people who said during the report into the referendum said it would be ok if manufacturing disappeared —— patrick minford. i know as an mp representing a manufacturing area that that would not be a good thing for local or national economies. the other thing isa national economies. the other thing is a lot of this debate is we would like this or that, we would like no
ta riffs like this or that, we would like no tariffs but what are the other markets going to do? the moment and other market puts up a tariff or barrier then the response from our businesses, different sectors, will be the uk needs to do the same. i think to actually expect there to be unlimited free trade is not actually... it doesn't really reflect the world we live in in the 21st—century. reflect the world we live in in the 21st-century. you're worried a world in which donald trump for example has been so critical of free trade and the consequences of free trade for many people who have lost out is not actually world in which that bright scenario for britain beckons. i think at the end of the day we will, as i said before, it will be bumpy for will, as i said before, it will be bumpyfora will, as i said before, it will be bumpy for a while, there will be a future for britain, many people are confident it will be a bright future andi confident it will be a bright future and i hope that's absolutely the case. you don't want to play cassandra in this role as chairman of the select committee? if you're a lwa ys of the select committee? if you're always sounding the alarm that people are dealing with that the pa rt people are dealing with that the part of the debate than elsewhere. that's what britain expects us to do but also we need to be realistic.
looking forward, in a strange way we appear in terms of the politics of your party to have gone backwards, some of the decisions which were the slow acting poison which arguably almost destroyed it 20 years ago and put it in opposition for a decade appear to be back. in the words of yourformer appear to be back. in the words of your former leader appear to be back. in the words of yourformer leader david appear to be back. in the words of your former leader david cameron, appear to be back. in the words of yourformer leader david cameron, is the party destined to bang on about europe for another decade again?|j hope europe for another decade again?” hope not, europe has been a fault line running through the conservative party for a long time now, with all the time i've been involved in politics and many others as well. having had the referendum we now don't have the voices saying we've got to leave the eu, it's going to happen, so we have to negotiate in the national interests and get the best possible deal for the country. but i think one of the other challenges is going to be, and perhaps in this autumn ahead, we have our party conference coming up, is how the prime minister and ministers set out what else the conservative party in government is
going to be doing because that's very important. the danger is the whole oxygen of whitehall is sucked into this whole brexit debate and that's inevitable because it's very big, very challenging and complex but actually we know there are many other reasons and issues people want us to tackle and many reasons why people voted to leave in the referendum which would be solved by brexit. those policy ideas to tackle those issues, for example lack of employment opportunities or poor education in parts of the country, have to be dealt with by government departments at the same time. i wonder how much opportunity there will be in parliament did that. you can't forget the deal that was me with the democratic unionist party to get some sort of majority. it would only take some people to rebel, perhaps people like yourself, who are supporters of the eu, for the whole process to be slowed down. there is a little riskier, it
actually, it is in their? that this could become the dominant issue for the next 18 months, and everything is crowded back. there is a huge risk that this becomes a huge issue and the only issue that is talked about. i think that is wrong for a number of reasons. there is a big issueis number of reasons. there is a big issue is that i think people expect us to tackle. some people think, you know, the referendum happened in june 2006 in the way they still talk about it? but it would also be bad news for the conservative party. let me ask you, though, your colleague, anna soubry, who was a supporter of remain, a former minister sacked by theresa may, she wrote an article this month saying could she see herself joining with this month saying could she see herselfjoining with people who were like—minded and wanted to say the country from an appalling brexit? she said at the moment, not now, but
it is not impossible. if you have people like that same ultimately i could work against my party or leave it, that adds to the instability, does it? if people like anna soubry felt the party was not for them, that would be a shame. she is a committed worker, she was in cabinet and now in parliament. but this is not an issue that is just entirely academic. it is not entirely academic. it is not entirely academic. it is such a huge and important issue for the country by the next generations, and people feel strongly about it. but it also goes back to the leadership of my party and make it clear that the conservative party is and remains a broad church on this issue and others. there could be differing views, but there are a space for everybody. you need people like anna soubry, who is a talented east midlands politician, to work for us.
your seat, the seat you represent, and her seat, also in the midlands, these were labour held seats. you had to convince people, so you don't feel they are guaranteed to see conservative in the next election? people changed their minds in marginal seats. in order to win a marginal seats. in order to win a marginal seat, it is about building a coalition of voters, persuading them of the — of your cause, that they want to support your party at this time. so you are always conscious that this is not to last forever. the conservative party is or is thinking about a message that will appeal to those voters in the middle. and the we are better when we appeal to the centre ground. but i don't think that people like me, like anna soubry, it should feel that the conservative party does not have a place for us. i think i'll be a mistake in terms of appealing to the broad collection of voters that we need to. the former chancellor of
the exchequer, george osborne, dismissed theresa may with a little relish as a dabble in walking.” dismissed theresa may with a little relish as a dabble in walking. i had the pleasure of working with him in the pleasure of working with him in the treasury. he was good to work for. in terms of leadership, it is a false airand to for. in terms of leadership, it is a false air and to predict how long somebody will last all who will take over, and everything else. i have been clear, and i don't think theresa may is the right person to text of the next election. and think everybody in the conservative party is not the election that we sought or expected. it is could be harder because we don't have the majority, in terms of putting our programme of government through. theresa may was asked by bbc week, is it your intention to lead the party into the
next election? and her answer was yes, she is ever the long—term. next election? and her answer was yes, she is ever the long—termm is difficult to predict what is ahead. ifeel is difficult to predict what is ahead. i feel that there were m ista kes ahead. i feel that there were mistakes made in the general election campaign. there was a focus very much on one person, which are think is a mistake, because i think the conservative party as a team. there were mistakes in the way the ma nifesto there were mistakes in the way the manifesto was handled. but also know that no leader wants to put a date on their departure in advance. david cameron found it difficult when he said he was going to go. he said halfway through a parliament, and it signed his own mortality. she said whatever she might have felt a few months ago, in immediate aftermath of the election, after saying that she took responsibility, she is now saying, stuff you, i can carry on. can she carry onto the next election? would she be comfortable
that would be comfortable carrying on under theresa may into the next election? jurak i was stand on a conservative platform... i think has had a difficult first year as primers. -- i would stand on a conservative platform. labour's vote went up to the highest it has had since 19115! it didn't win, because your majority! i think! since 19115! it didn't win, because your majority! i think i have the highest vote share of conservatives that we have had... as i say, you can't get away... what could she say they could make are acceptable as a leaderfor the they could make are acceptable as a leader for the next election? they could make are acceptable as a leaderfor the next election? i think one of the things it has been missing is an attempt, not an attempt, but a real move to reconcile the fault lines in the
conservative party, which are typically shown up by europe. so, for example, in the autumn of last year, there was an attempt to sideline the 48%, people like me, who had voted remain, and were going all out brexit. i think the election result put a brake on that. i have been clear in articles. i think things are changing, and it is important that they do, in terms of bringing united party together. if the prime minister and the cabinet we re the prime minister and the cabinet were able to do that, build a strong parliament that would be a step forward. the evening standard newspaper in london, which should say is edited by george osborne wrote an interesting article a few days go, talking about the feeling that the party was out of step, particularly with young voters. it quoted some unnamed tory mps. the thing is, the tories to represent
us. the generational tops, david davis, at boris johnson, us. the generational tops, david davis, at borisjohnson, they are bluffers. we do want lovers. there isa bluffers. we do want lovers. there is a real dismay at the mediocrity of theresa may's team. and they write about that. —— we don't want bluffers. i think you have to keep all cabinet is — look, i had my review period. i was handed me at p45. i think every body has a shelf life. i think need to make sure that a team holds together and let you all work together and support each other. but if you change the faces around the tables, just for the sake of it, that is a mistake. she has moved a lot of people into different jobs, but she didn't bring in any new blood. will a reshuffle... that is why the privacy can't stay in office forever. isn't it? ithink
just in terms of younger voters, i think thinking about it, we need to think thinking about it, we need to think is a party how we will appeal. the trouble is, if you look at the way that the boat is backed up, we have a lot of old people, not so many young. and the older dying off, and the younger, there will be more and the younger, there will be more and more of them. of course. and you need to have views and policies and so on that appeal to the young generation. that means the promina said mr bring in new people, we should not be afraid of that. but also go back to where we started, we have this massive challenge brexit. and we have to deal with that in the national interest. nicky morgan, thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you. hello there.
we're moving into the last day of august, but in some places, yesterday, it felt like september had already arrived. because there was a lot of cloud, there was some rain around, and temperatures across some south—eastern areas only got up to 13 degrees. but further north and west, the day brought brighter skies and some spells of sunshine. just a few showers. and that's the sort of weather that we will take with us into thursday. the cloud has now been chased away to the east. we've got some clear skies following on behind, with just a few shower clouds. and during the day ahead, we are going to see a mixture of sunshine and showers. the showers quite heavy from the word go in western areas. and then extending eastwards
as the day goes on. but with some bright or sunny spells between those downpours. so, let's take a closer look at 4pm in the afternoon. across the west of england, we'll see quite a few showers in places, with some sunny spells in between. temperatures around 16—17 degrees. some showers stretching across the southeast and into east anglia. but a big improvement in temperatures here. 20 degrees in london, 19 for ipswich. some heavy showers across the midlands, up into north—eastern england. some of the showers could contain the odd rumble of thunder. and for scotland, it is that mixture of spells and showers. 14 degrees in aberdeen, 17 in glasgow. for northern ireland, some decent sunny breaks between the showers. i think some places will avoid the showers and stay dry all day long. and a similar story for wales. sunny spells, the odd downpour coming along, here and there. some of those showers will be heavy, but they will then tend to fade away as we go through the evening. through the night, into the early hours of friday, we'll see some fog around, and a chilly night. towns and cities 9—12, but in rural areas, one, two, three, four degrees. quite a cool start if you're out and about early on friday morning. but the prospects of friday
are fairly promising. a lot of dry weather and some spells of sunshine. still the chance of a shower, particular to the east, but many will stay dry. 17 in glasgow, 21 in london, about where we'd expect to be. and then we get on into the weekend, and it is not bad news, especially if you like dry weather. this area of high pressure will give us a fine start to the weekend. weather systems, you'll notice, out west, they won't make much progress into eastern parts, so even on sunday, eastern areas of scotland, eastern england, should stay dry, with some spells of sunshine. further west, a fine saturday, a chilly saturday night, but then cloud and rain with some strong winds will work in from the west on sunday. welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. i'm mike embley. our top stories: the governor of texas warns the worst is not over from the devastation triggered by tropical storm harvey. there will be ongoing challenges
while the rain is falling and up to a week from now. president trump says talking to north korea is not the answer. so, what comes next in this international stand—off? the brother of the manchester bomber is to go on trial in libya in connection with the attack in may which killed 22 people. and 20 years on from the death of their mother, princes william and harry make a poignant appearance at a memorial garden dedicated to diana. and a harddrive containing unfinished works by terry pratchett have been crushed by a steamroller, according to his wishes.