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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  September 18, 2017 12:30am-1:01am BST

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for rohingya muslims, and says myanmar has one last chance to halt the military offensive against them. aid agencies say they've identified more than 1,000 children without parents or relatives among the refugees who've arrived from myanmar. some are as young as three years old. the united states has signalled a possible change in policy on climate change, secretary of state rex tillerson said it's "open" to staying in the paris agreement. and this story is trending on bbc.com. a man has died in hong kong while walking through a haunted house attraction. park officials say he had wandered into a restricted area of the buried alive ride at ocean park. local media reports say he was struck by a coffin. that's all from me now. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i am zeinab
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badawi. this is the un general assembly in new york. world leaders are gathering to debate the pressing issues of the day. my guess is antonio guterres, the secretary general, presiding over his first assembly since he took over the post in january. he assembly since he took over the post injanuary. he says he wants to prevent crises from escalating. but with tensions, conflict, suffering ongoing all over the world, does the un have the moral authority and the clout to do what is necessary? antonio guterres, look in —— welcome
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to hardtalk. when it comes to crises, you said prevention is better than a cure. we all know that. is the un the right body to ta ke that. is the un the right body to take the lead on that? we need to be. we spend 70% of our budget on peacekeeping. in most situations there is no peace to keep, as you know. we need to be able to invest much more in prevention. i think we can see the prevention on two aspects. general prevention. and sustainable economy is prevention of conflict, prevention of corruption is prevention of conflict. helping
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ease tensions is prevention of conflict. then we have the need to do specific easing of conflict in specific situations where there is conflict. that is where we need to boost capacity. if you allow me, i created a form of mediation with nine men and nine women, ex—heads of state and government, people with experience, to help us act in time to prevent conflict. it also needs you, the secretary general of the un, to speak out and challenge governments. this is what a former official said of you. his style is to make general statements on the issue but not directly challenge government on action. it raises concerns on what he would be like as secretary general of the un. this is
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you after ten years as head of the high commission for refugees until 2015. many things can be avoided with diplomacy. a few examples. many people in the last few months, they we re people in the last few months, they were released, without going to the press. if i speak out, we need to be able to understand when to do things with diplomacy and went to speak out. we have a human rights high commissioner at which i support to deal with human rights violations. my deal with human rights violations. my role is to be clear in relation to principles and protection of human rights in all circumstances. and then to speak out myself when we have situations that need to be attended to like myanmar. that is an
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area where i became extremely reactive because diplomacy was not working and we needed to be clear in relation to denouncing the situation, a dramatic violation of human rights. is that how you describe the military treatment of the rohingya muslim minority in myanmar and the treatment they have had at the hands of the buddhist militants, the attacks, hundreds dead, half a militants, the attacks, hundreds dead, halfa million militants, the attacks, hundreds dead, half a million fleeing. had he described that? a violation of human rights. it is unacceptable. second, when i was asked by one of your collea g u es when i was asked by one of your colleagues if this was ethnic cleansing, i said colleagues if this was ethnic cleansing, isaid if colleagues if this was ethnic cleansing, i said if an ethnic group flee the country because of this persecution, can we have a better word? i say we can only avoid this with two conditions... can i ask
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you... to clarify, is it ethnic cleansing? the two things necessary for these not to become definite is to stop immediately the military operations leading to it and second to recognise the right of return of people, for people to be able to come back and rebuild their lives in myanmar instead of being definitely exposed. it is reversible? it must be, because if not, it is ethnic cleansing, clearly. you spoke to the civilian leader of myanmar, aung san suu kyi, about ten days ago, what did you say to her? did you say this is unacceptable? what we have been able to do with aung san suu kyi was ata able to do with aung san suu kyi was at a certain moment to come to an understanding of this problem, the problem of the rohingya muslims in myanmar, it should be solved. we came to an agreement on what needs
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to be done. unfortunately, now, with the situation, being much more difficult, when it is to be done is to recognise these people have rights, to allow, even if the nationality of myanmar is not perfect, to allow them to receive the nationality according to their law, to receive it, and to allow all others to receive a legal status aiming at freedom of movement, possibility of access to labour markets, and to allow them to have a normal life. what did she say to you? the problem is that the impact that was necessary on the ground to make this happen never occurred. u nfortu nately, make this happen never occurred. unfortunately, this was compounded by the terrible grammar after the attack by these military groups on installations. there was violent repression, notjust by the army, as
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you mentioned, but radical groups. that has now created a situation that goes beyond the recognition of those rights to, as i said,. military operations, open the ground for humanitarian assistance, and allow the people to recognise the right to go back. but when you have your own human rights attendants saying on aung san suu kyi, we need to delete the memories of the icon of human rights, we have seen her criticised by desmond tutu, lully yousafzai, condemning her for silence, are you not condemning her as well for myanmar? we are saying clearly that this vicious circle needs to be reversed, military operations must stop, human rights must be recognised and human aid be
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distributed, people be allowed to come back. this is what i told her. i have to say it is clear for me that we have to dimensions. 0ne i have to say it is clear for me that we have to dimensions. one is this is not a perfect democracy. this is a situation where the military still has the upper hand... you are blaming the military, not aung san suu kyi? clarify. who is responsible? it is a conflict. it is clear to me there is pressure from the military side to do what is being done on the ground. of course, i would expect the leader of the country would be able to contain it and be able to reverse the situation. she has a last chance, in my opinion, to do so, because she will be addressing the country. and i hope it corresponds exactly to the beginning of our high level session in the general assembly. she will
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have a chance to reverse the situation. if she does not she does not reverse the situation now, then i think the tragedy will be absolutely horrible and u nfortu nately absolutely horrible and unfortunately i... i don't see it can be reversed in the future. you do not see how it can be reversed in the future? i think it can be reversed, she has an opportunity next tuesday. can see to the military to stop what is going on the ground ? military to stop what is going on the ground? you are blaming the military, not her. ithink the ground? you are blaming the military, not her. i think all forms of pressure are military, not her. i think all forms of pressure a re necessary military, not her. i think all forms of pressure are necessary at the current moment to make sure the carnage stops. should she not have come to the un? not discussing aspects related to whatever we feel 01’ aspects related to whatever we feel or not about aung san suu kyi... aspects related to whatever we feel or not about aung san suu kyi. .. she is the civilian leader of the country! we need to stop this. it is obvious that we need the military to
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stop operations in the political power to have the capacity to do so. north korea, another big problem for the international community. and there is no unity in the security council when it comes to north korea. you have china and russia, russia is saying of the united states's position that aggressive rhetoric is the only thing coming from the us. there is no unity there again to try and stop north korea from carrying out yet another nuclear missile test. it has carried out more than 20 this year. we all know there are varying positions in the un security council. i have to say in the case of north korea, the security council independently, a follicle aspects you have mentioned, was able to adopt in the last few weeks two strong resolutions. as you
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have mentioned. they are not enough, probably. we have to move forward. but i think it is correct in sanctioning north korea not only to put pressure on north korea, which is absolutely essential, what they are doing is in violation of international law and totally unacceptable from the point of view of the international community, not only that, but to create opportunity for diplomatic engagement to be the worst thing that can happen in relation to the north korea situation is to move in a kind of escalation. all of a sudden we are all sleep—walking in the war. escalation. all of a sudden we are all sleep-walking in the war. do you think that could happen?” all sleep-walking in the war. do you think that could happen? i think that can happen. i think we need to avoid it. ithink that can happen. i think we need to avoid it. i think we need to appeal to the unity of the council and use it to have diplomatic engagement in order to be able to put a stop to what is happening, to make north korea accept that the objective of reorganisation of the korean peninsula is essential for the region. donald trump, when he says
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all options are on the table, when he says the sanctions we have seen imposed in the past two days or north korea are nothing compared to what ultimately has to happen, will that lead to the us sleep—walking into military action? i think we have heard many a thing said by the us. you have mentioned several. we have to move beyond that to the action necessary to make north korea understand this cannot go on and second create a viable diplomatic engagement. rapporteur recall aspects. donald trump isjust rhetoric? —— rhetorical. aspects. donald trump isjust rhetoric? -- rhetorical. i have seen political leaders making threats. this happens everywhere, every time. either empty? they are not empty.
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they need to be used to create an opportunity for diplomatic engagement. you want to scare them to the table? russia if necessary, it is clear. —— pressure. but we need to be commended for that negotiation to take place. the democratic minister said donald trump has no strategy north korea. he says of the sanctions imposed, they are nice, but are not having they are nice, but are not having the desired impact. 0nly days after they are imposed, with the north korea firing this powerful nuclear tests across japan. there is no coherent strategy. we need to be aggressive on this. the dialogue may be different. but it proves the unity of the security council is necessary also to create conditions
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for diplomatic engagement. how do they do that? without that engagement we cannot do it. everyone wa nts to engagement we cannot do it. everyone wants to bring north korea to the table to talk. the question is how. he hour my role is to convince all parties that is necessary. —— my role. i have even said more, iam ready to do my part if it is useful. do you have a plan in your pocket to get this coherent strategy? surely you should. i cannot have a plan that requires the political will of the main actors in the situation. i can say whether it is necessary and more. i'm ready to play my part is the parties will consider that that is useful. so you offering your services... i have been continent will be parties and expressing my deep belief that the democratisation of the north of the korean peninsula
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is necessary, but for that to be possible, we need the council to act together, and we need a dramatic engagement. it is a difficult time for you to become secretary general. it could be easier. you have all these conflicts that we have been talking about. it also the trump administration —— but also the trump administration —— but also the trump administration does not appear to be administration does not appear to be a big supporter of the united nations. it has been said that the us delegation will be drastically reduced. that would suggest they are disengaging from the un. first of all, we need to engage constructively with the us administration. we have been doing it and administration. we have been doing itandi administration. we have been doing it and i think we have got a long way. if you look at the conversation incongruous about the budget for the state department... perfect if you
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look at the conversations in congress. we are seeing important progress. “— congress. we are seeing important progress. —— if you look at the conversations in congress. donald trump has decided to come and to do in the general assembly as a side event to support the reforms that i am proposing the united nations. reforms in relation to management, gender parity, and the united nations development system. it meant thaticy nations development system. it meant that icy eight growing interest of the united states and of this administration with a very... he still wa nts administration with a very... he still wants to make cuts. the us ambassador to the united nations, nikki haley, tweeted a couple of months ago thatjust five months into their time, they have cut $5
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billion to the un peacekeeping budget, and they are only getting started. the un is being seriously looked at by us. we had the possibility to close the peacekeeping operations. in liberia and elsewhere. this is the right thing to do. peacekeepers should not be forever in a country. the aim is to end the mission when the project is sold. we are looking into duff all, and we think that this situation has improved there. —— darfour. at the same time, it is my intention to reduce all unnecessary expenses. “— intention to reduce all unnecessary expenses. —— darfur. i give instructions to the team that is working on that to reduce by 50% our assets expenditure by using our assets expenditure by using our assets by different missions. there are different is that we do. what is important for me is to make sure that when the reforming the un, when making the un more effective and more cost—effective, this also has
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an impact on the united states public trial the united states congress, and the united states administration, making them recognise the importance of supporting the un and, if i may say, the importance of the us engagement with us. it is my deep belief that the disengagement of the us in international relations is not only bad for the world that the united states. referee: you see that happening? i hope that that will happen. -- to you see that happening. —— do you see that happening? it is my belief that it will be very important for the americans to recognise that if they do not engage in situations around the world, the void that it is creating will be occupied by others. which others? it depends on the situation. in some aspects it could be china, russia, or saudi arabia.
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is that necessarily a bad thing?m depends on the region where it things happen. some people might welcome a world that is not so younie bowl. it is at uni poll. it is multipolar. —— darfur. —— it is not unipolar. —— it is darfur. is multipolar. —— darfur. —— it is not unipolar. -- it is darfur. have you so that you donald trump?|j not unipolar. -- it is darfur. have you so that you donald trump? i have served to several members of the us administration. —— it multipolar. apart from a bloated bureaucracy that people talk about in the united nations, another aspect of united nations, another aspect of united nations which has attracted a lot of criticism is the fact that it is very difficult to penetrate its culture. it has a culture of secrecy. the former deputy to go the
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nine, when he was the former secretary general to the united nations, he said there are people at the united nations who want to get by, while others have made a personal statement to make a real difference. the two libyan permanent —— that two libyan permanent conflict with one another. you have a big task at hand. it is true, but thatis a big task at hand. it is true, but that is what we need to do. we know that is what we need to do. we know that in bureaucracy, and we need to make sure that the un becomes more accountable and more transparent. that is why the reforms that i am proposing. full accountability. that is why the reforms that i am proposing. full accountabilitylj proposing. full accountability.” wa nt to proposing. full accountability.” want to give you an example. a swedish diplomat who was part of united nations human rights commission but was suspended because he leaked confidential document that allege that they were un peacekeepers carrying out sexual abuse in the centre of the republic
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against children. he was later exonerated. but he said that the un rarely hold him to account for unethical at actions, perfectly those in positions of power. he says that the un accountability system is broken and does not work.” that the un accountability system is broken and does not work. i have introduced reform increasing substantially the protection of whistle—blowers and those that demands the wrongdoings within the un. i have made sure that people are not made into victims fall being whistle—blowers. i am not made into victims fall being whistle—blowers. iam happy not made into victims fall being whistle—blowers. i am happy that we have this state—of—the—art system in the un. -- have this state—of—the—art system in the un. —— for being. have this state—of—the—art system in the un. -- for being. but what about this is about alleged peacekeepers in some countries around the world. there is concern that there is no accountability and get off
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scot—free. accountability and get off scot-free. that is exactly what we are trained to do. we have introduced a new sexual abuse strategy. i have nominated a sexual abuse representative globally. we are convenient the cancel the issue with heads of state government, and we will have about 13 of state and government who have been accepted as champions in their countries to ensure that in their countries the prosecution and condemnation, if they are guilty, of course, the prosecution of people accused of serious wrongdoing or sexual abuse is taken care of. we are making sure the countries assumed the responsibilities while improving our own investigation mechanism. peacekeepers do a greatjob around the world. lots of lives are saved. lots of civilians into medical situations are predicted by peacekeepers. —— civilians in
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dramatic situation. we tried to make sure those that abuse and have their wrongdoings, at the violations of basic human rights of people, especially in relation to sexual abuse, are properly protected, properly prosecuted and condemn. you say when you were appointed that you felt the matter of human dignity needed to be the core of your work. all secretary general set to try to achieve a tricky balance, try to effect change, bring that about through diplomacy. what kind of secretary general would you be? will you be outspoken and so condemn these actions because they are causing suffering, because you say you want to restore your dignity?” wa nt to you want to restore your dignity?” want to stop suffering. in many ways, and that is through diplomacy. in other ways, you need to make
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coalitions to address in solving problems. in some situations got the way to at least solve the problem is to denounce it. i will do these three things altogether and i will be using the different instruments of united nations to do it. thank you very a much indeed for coming on hardtalk. it was a pleasure. after a weekend of sunny spells, and some heavy showers around too, there is going to be a bit of a change in the weather as we head through this week. after that fairly cool and showery start, a bit of rain mid—week, particularly in the west. but things will be warming up towards the end of the week, and turning a little
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bit drier later on. so here is how things are looking at the moment. we've got an area of high pressure building in from the atlantic. low pressure sitting out to the east at the moment. so still a rather cool, northerly breeze with those two areas of high and low pressure. that breeze in the east is going to be bringing some showers across parts of eastern england, and perhaps central parts seeing some showers through the day. but it is quite a chilly start to monday morning, with the mist and some fog patches. a little bit murkier as you wake up in the morning. this is 9:00am. temperatures starting to rise as the sun coming through the hole in the cloud clears the mist and fog away, too. an isolated shower or two around coastal parts of wales, but mostly dry for parts of northern england, northern ireland scotland, too. but that northerly breeze will feel quite chilly towards the north and the east, and will bring the chance of one or two showers through the day. many parts of the country having a pretty decent day, though. once the mist and fog clear away, the sunshine should break through quite nicely. there will be a few showers cropping up almost anywhere, but i think it will be mostly
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central and eastern parts of the country that you have a higher chance of catching a shower. whereas further west, particularly for northern ireland and for western scotland, you are likely to stay dry through the day. temperatures in most places about 15 to 18 degrees. just a little bit cooler with that breeze around eastern scotland and north—east england. moving through monday evening, then, we could see an area of slightly more persistent rain moving south across scotland, northern england, down towards the south—east by the end of the night. clearing skies behind that, so another chilly night ahead, with temperatures around about eight to 11 in our towns and cities. but actually, in the countryside, it could be a little bit colder than that. low enough to see a touch of frost across scotland, northern england, northern ireland and wales, as well. after that, a chilly start to tuesday morning, and this ridge of high pressure building on. so tuesday is probably the best day of the week, in fact. lots of dry weather, the showers we have seen recently in the east should be easing away. so, with the light winds and the sunshine, a pleasant day to come on tuesday, with top temperatures still a little below average for the time of year, around about 15 to 18 degrees.
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but, when you are in the shelter and the sunshine, that will be a bit pleasant. it will only be rainy in the far north—west late in the day. for wednesday and thursday, a bit of rain for some western parts of the country, but temperatures will be on the rise later in the week. bye now. i'm sharanjit leyl in singapore. the headlines: the un warns of a "horrible tragedy" for rohingya muslims, and says myanmar has one last chance to halt the offensive against them. the chances are this military operation in myanmar is reaching its natural. as far as the burmese are concerned, these people are a historical problem that's now been fixed. could the us reverse its policy on climate change? secretary of state rex tillerson says it's "open" to staying in the paris agreement. i'm babita sharma in london. also in the programme. the governing party in pakistan celebrates after the wife of the ousted prime minister,
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nawaz sharif, wins a by—election in his political heartland.
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