tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News September 22, 2017 9:00am-11:01am BST
hello, it's 9 o'clock. welcome to the programme. the prime minster theresa may is making a major speech on brexit today in the italian city of florence. she is expected to tell the audience that history willjudge brexit not for the differences we face but for the vision we showed. mrsmay is to tell eu leaders it's in your interests too to strike a brexit deal as she unveils new proposals on the rights of eu nationals and the amount of money britain's prepared to pay to leave the eu. also in the programme. the leader of north korea, kimjong—un, has called us president donald trump mentally deranged after the us president's speech at the united nations this week where he said the us would totally destroy north korea. we will have full analyst of what this means for future relations between the two nations. we are talking to a man who went undercover
for a year to record secret filming of far—right groups in america and europe who hold sexist homophobic and extreme racist views. welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning. do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning. use the hashtag victoria live and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. our top story today. theresa may will today set out proposals for ending the stalemate in the brexit negotiations. she'll use a speech in florence to ask eu leaders to agree to a two—year transition period after march 2019 during which britain would pay brussels £18 billion. adam fleming is in the capital and we can speak to him now. what is brussels going to want to hear today? morning to you. everyone here is going to be all ears for this speech. no doubt, it's a big moment
in the brexit process. lots of people will be listening and listening for lots of things. first of all, there will be the general tone, what sort of pose does theresa may strike, how constructive, friendly, open does she appear? actually what they'll be listening to and noting is the technical details that will be coming up in the next round of negotiations that will start next week and they break it down into categories. the issue of the citizens‘ rights, that‘s what happens about eu nationals living in the uk after brexit. two big issues there. how are those rights protected, is there a role for the european court ofjustice, are they written into eu law, how does — into uk law? they‘re also worried about the administrative procedures and process the eu nationals will have to go through get permission to stay in the uk, that‘s citizens‘ rights. then the issue of money, which eve ryo ne then the issue of money, which everyone is talking about this morning. this idea that the uk will pay two years of its member fees, 2019, and 2020. it means there won‘t
bea 2019, and 2020. it means there won‘t be a black hole in the eu‘s accounts. the thing is that the eu‘s chief negotiator actually has asked for a lot more than that, he thinks the uk is on the hook for many more things than two years of membership fees. it will be interesting to see if this gesture by theresa may is enough to unlock the talks. the other thing listening out for is this idea about a transitional arrangement, between leaving and the future trade deal, because mrbarnier said ina future trade deal, because mrbarnier said in a speech yesterday as soon as the uk requests discussions about having a transition period, he is happy to start discussing it and it could be agreed quite quickly. we are also live with norman smith in florence later in the programme. we are going to have full coverage of theresa may‘s speech on the bbc news channel from 2pm today. annita mcveigh is in the bbc newsroom with a summary
of the rest of the day‘s news. the north korean leader, kim jong—un, has described donald trump as "mentally deranged". in an unprecedented personal statement, via state media, mr kim said mr trump would "pay dearly" for his recent speech to the un. he was reacting to a speech by mr trump in which he called the dictator ‘rocket man‘ and said america could destroy north korea if was forced to defend itself. a man and a woman have been charged with murder after a badly burned body was discovered in the back garden of a house in southfields, in south—west london. police say they‘ve so far not been able to establish the person‘s age or gender. one of britain‘s most senior police
officers has warned that the huge counter—terrorism effort is placing a strain on other areas of policing that is "not sustainable". sarah thornton, the head of the national police chiefs‘ council, argues that more funding is needed to maintain day—to—day policing. here‘s our home affairs correspondent, danny shaw. five terror attacks in britain in six months. security experts say it‘s a sign of a shift in the threat of terrorism which could take 30 years to eliminate. it poses a big challenge for the police service. now one of brtain‘s most senior officers has spoken out about the need for extra funding. writing on the national police chiefs council website, sara thornton says the counterterrorism policing budget is being cut by 7.2% in the next three years. miss thornton says that‘s a real concern giving the alarming nature and volume of the threat. she says the pressure this creates is not sustainable because there are fewer resources overall, particularly in neighbourhood policing. one of the things that we absolutely
value as part of our fight against terrorism is neighbourhood police officers, out there in neighbourhoods, building relationships, talking to the public and picking up bits of information and bits of intelligence. if we don‘t have that footprint, and we‘re very worried that that has reduced over the last few years, then we won‘t pick up information. but just as importantly we won‘t have that really important relationship with the public. the home office says it is sensitive to the pressures on police forces and is in discussion with them about the problems. but there are also fresh concerns about whether there are enough firearms officers. a new survey is expected to show growing support among the police for more of them to be trained to use weapons. danny shaw, bbc news. rescue workers in mexico city have called off their search of the ruins of a primary school following tuesday‘s earthquake. it‘s believed none of the children trapped when the building collapsed has survived. the country‘s president says there could still be people alive
in collapsed buildings. 273 people are now known to have died and thousands more have been injured in the quake. 0ur correspondent rajini vaidyanathan is in mexico city. the rescue effort is in full force here in mexico city. close to a0 buildings collapsed in the earthquake on tuesday. this building is in the fashionable la condesa district, which is nicknamed "hipster town", it is normally home to fashion designers, millennials and artists. this operation at the moment is a rescue operation. the marines and the armed forces here believe there are people inside and they‘re trying to make contact with them. as you can see there are a lot of people and a lot of machinery as well working at the rubble. a lot of it is manual work, people passing bits of the rubble hand to hand to remove it very carefully because it‘s a precarious operation. international assistance
has also arrived here. the israeli government has sent help and they‘re actually involved in this particular rescue operation. while people wait, there are doctors on stand—by as well ready to treat anyone who is rescued and who comes out. periodically this place falls silent. people put their hands up and they are told to be silent while rescuers try to call out to people who they believe are trapped in the rubble. it‘s not just officials who are helping with the rescue efforts here, many of these people are volunteers giving up their own time and pitching in to try and rescue as many people as they can. the atmosphere here is very intense, it‘s one of anticipation. people are still hopeful that many more people will be found in the rubble alive. banks and building societies are to make checks on all current account holders to try
to identify illegal immigrants. from january, staff will have to search customers‘ names against a database of known illegal immigrants supplied by the home office. financial institutions will have to report any names they discover and freeze or close the account. the united nations is to launch an investigation into the massacre of the yazidis, a minority religious community in iraq, by so—called islamic state. the international human rights lawyer amal clooney has campaigned to raise awareness of the genocide of the yazidis. she spoke to our chief international correspondent lyse doucet in new york. amal clooney, how big a step forward is this in legal terms? it‘s a huge step, lyse, it‘s really a milestone for the victims of isis, like nadia. what‘s happened today is that the council has voted to establish an international investigation to collect evidence of isis crimes. so for the first time the un is saying to isis terrorists that if they commit genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes, they will be held to account in a court of law.
almost 70% of women who are on a powerful epilepsy drug have not received new safety warnings about the dangers of taking it during pregnancy, according to a new survey given exclusively to the bbc. it‘s estimated that around 20,000 children have been harmed by valproate medicines in the uk alone and many mothers say they were never informed of the dangers. our health correspondent sophie hutchinson has more. you‘ve been in the house a lot, have you been going out at all? no. jo was taking valproate when she decided to have children. her 17—year—old son, thomas, is autistic after being harmed by the drug. she said she wasn‘t warned of the dangers. i‘m extremely angry that when i went for the diagnosis there was people in the health authority that knew about all of this and i wasn‘t told, i wasn‘t given that information. if i was given that information then i would‘ve acted on it. sodium valproate is an effective
drug for epilepsy and bipolar disorders, but it carries a 10% risk of physical abnormalities for babies exposed to it in the womb, and a 30—a0% risk of autism, learning disabilities and low iq. early last year, the uk medicines watchdog launched new safety information packs to be given to women in gps‘ surgeries, hospitals and pharmacies but today‘s survey by the charities epilepsy society, epilepsy action and young epilepsy suggests of almost 500 women recently polled who were on the drug, almost 70% had not received these vital warnings. they come too late for the thousands of young people, like thomas, harmed by the drug. the uk medicines watchdog said the results of the survey were important in helping it understand the effectiveness of the measures taken to date. it also said it was important women didn‘t stop taking valproate without first discussing it with their doctor. sophie hutchinson, bbc news. we will be speaking to a mother who
took the drug later in the programme. facebook founder mark zuckerberg says his company will share 3,000 russia—linked political adverts with us authorities. the information will be handed to an investigation into alleged russian interference in last year‘s presidential election. mr zuckerberg said that in future, all such adverts would carry information about who paid for them. that‘s a summary of the latest bbc news, more at 9.30am. do get in touch with us throughout the morning. use the hashtag victoria live and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. more on the war of words from donald trump and the north korean leader. interesting to know what you make of it. are you concerned about that? we will be speaking to someone to get some facts about that relationship and we are going to be talking about
that powerful epilepsy drug that can lead to birth defects for women who ta ke lead to birth defects for women who take it and get pregnant. we are going to be talking to a mum and daughter who are going to share their story later. let‘s get the sport now. we have been talking about mark sampson for weeks. he has of course gone as england women‘s football coach. they‘ve to find a replacement of course. they do. good morning. after that news of mark sampson‘s dismissal and the fallout over how his appointment was handled by the football association, it‘s time to make another selection for the role of women‘s england head coach and it will be seen as an important one. sampson was sacked for inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour with female players in a previous role. after claims the fa knew about those issues during the recruitment process there will be close scrutiny over his successor. england are
currently ranked third in the world: the likes of the chelsea boss hayes and nick curbing are amongst early favourites. they can't be hasty and just, within the first couple of weeks sign someone up. they have to do research and background and get the right person, whether it‘s male 01’ the right person, whether it‘s male orfemale. for me i would like to see a female take over. but we will have to wait and see what happens. it shows how much the game have grown, in previous years, no one would have batted an eyelid if things were going on in english football. it shows that the women's game has moved on and we need to keep pushing on and do it in a positive way. two of england best players there, giving their view on the situation, as yet there is no leeway on the time, they will play their next
qualifier in november so they have got a wild get it right. i‘m guessing that antonio conte is happy, diego costa is on his way out? yes, and he's going to get a sizeable amount of money, up to £50 million. after 20 league goals last season, million. after 20 league goals last season, as million. after 20 league goals last season, as premier league title winners chelsea one, you would have thought that diego costa was an integral part of antonio conte‘s plans but we have seen one of the most acrimonious splits in the recent history. how does the footballing love affair quickly turned sour? the first thing we saw that things were going wrong, he was left out of a trip to leicester after a reported bus stop with the fitness coach, bent his head was turned by a big—money offer from china but he stayed to help them win. he received a text from antonio co nte, win. he received a text from antonio conte, both sides wanted a speedy
split but the divorce dragged on, the player saying he was being treated like criminal with the asking price too much to get suitors. he refused to return to london seeking comfort in brazil, chelsea have now agreed terms with atletico madrid for the transfer of diego costa back to the spanish club, that will happen injanuary because they are under a transfer embargo. he must now agree personal terms at boston medical. you will not be playing in the next game between the two clubs. he is now gone. thank you very much, we will speak to you later on. in a few hours‘ time, the prime minister theresa may will give a major speech updating us all on brexit negotiations so far. she left downing street this morning, on her way to florence in italy where she‘ll make her speech, 15 months after the uk voted to leave the european union. the pm is expected to propose a transitional deal with the eu of up to two years after brexit.
this would mean the uk would go on paying potentially up to £18 billion in return for continued access to the single market and being able to negotiate its own trade deals. however, the eu has criticised the overall negotiating process, claiming progress on britain‘s divorce deal has been too slow. the transport secretary chris grayling has been outlining what he hopes the pm‘s speech will achieve. what the speech will do is set out to our european partners much more of our ambitions, the relationship we want to have in the future, setting out some of the things we think should be part of the partnership of the future. and i hope what it will do will create a vision that everyone can unite behind and move forward, we‘ve obviously got a lot of negotiation ahead to do. but i think we‘ve got a historic responsibility to people on both sides of the channel, to people, to businesses who depend on our partnership, on our trading relationship, to reach a sensible agreement for the future. this was what the foreign secretary
borisjohnson had this was what the foreign secretary boris johnson had to this was what the foreign secretary borisjohnson had to say about this was what the foreign secretary boris johnson had to say about that speech when he returned home from a jog speech when he returned home from a jog this morning. good morning. are you disappointed but it‘s going to be shelling out 20 billion for the eu? no, it's a great future. is this what britain voted for? yes. a bit mumbling, probably understandable. in case you missed it, he was asked whether he was disappointed that britain would be shelling out 20 billion to the eu, he said, no, it‘s a great speech, they‘ll love it. he was asked if that was what britain voted for and he said yes. the fourth round of brexit talks are scheduled to begin on monday after they were pushed back by a week. are you going to resign? no, of course not. i don't want him managing the brexit process. we can speak now to our political guru, norman smith,
who‘s in florence. this is a massive date for brexit negotiations, the prime minister is trying to kick—start them. a huge day for her as well? yes, welcome to florence, a beautiful city, molto bene, then asamoah! chosen for a reason because mrs may‘s audience todayis reason because mrs may‘s audience today is other eu leaders, so she wa nts to today is other eu leaders, so she wants to hold her speech which is in eighth city which is a historical pa rt eighth city which is a historical part of europe, saying, we are going to remain in europe even though we
are living the eu. have a look at the shots from the piazza where is going to be later, it is a beautiful backdrop and puts a smile on everyone‘s face. so that‘s going to be part of the speech, and optimistic, cheerful looking outward narrative to brexit which has been a bit dour and narrative to brexit which has been a bit dourand grim narrative to brexit which has been a bit dour and grim for the moment. but leave aside all of the beauty of the occasion, what mrs may has got to deliver is detail, nitty—gritty, to deliver is detail, nitty—gritty, to move the negotiations on. and we have been told that there are going to be three parts to mrs may‘s offer. the first part will be clarity about the so—called transitional phase, the period after which we leave in 2019, and before we finally uncouple ourselves. mrs may will say she wants a two—year period to ensure a smooth transition out of the eu. secondly, there is
going to be more, we‘re told, on the rights of eu nationals. they have not briefed anything about that but that‘s another critical area. lastly, m rs that‘s another critical area. lastly, mrs may is going to give a nod and a wink on the money side, about how much cash we‘re prepared pay during that transitional face. although she would give a figure, we can work it out because she will say we are going to keep meeting our budgetary responsibilities during that period which means we will be paying around roughly £18 billion over those two years. the question is, will that be enough? is there enough there for eu leaders to say, 0k, fine, we‘re going to move onto the second stage of the negotiations. the trouble in trying to work that out is, this is a negotiation, its brinkmanship, eve ryo ne negotiation, its brinkmanship, everyone is playing their cards close to their chest. mrs may doesn‘t want to but the ashdown on the table and say too much now, ——
put the cash down on the table and say too much now because she may have two are per bit later. we are ina tight have two are per bit later. we are in a tight game of poker, she is going to play her hand on money, the rights of eu nationals and the transitional period. thank you, plenty more through the day from you. we can now speak about that more with our panel of mps. bernard jenkin, the conservative chair of the public administration and constitutional affairs committee is here in the studio with heidi alexanderfrom labour. stephen gethins, the scottish national party‘s international affairs spokesperson and christine jardin from the liberal democrats join us down the line. thank you for taking the time to speak to us. a two—year transitional deal, £20 billion paid to the eu, is that what he wanted to hear from the prime minister? as it gets perfectly reasonable. where under no legal obligation to pay any money at all
after we‘ve left. but we are pulling the rug on the eu‘s current budget period, and in order to win some goodwill, and i acknowledge that we‘re leaving rather suddenly, it‘s perfectly reasonable that for diplomatic and political reasons, we should continue to pay into the eu budget, it‘s not an obligation, its goodwill. is it the right thing to do? i think transition is the right thing to do, we need certainly certainty for business. but might problem is we're going to delay the difficult eventual decision, if we stay in the customs market up until 2021, businesses that want to sign contracts and sign business decisions, if it's right for 2019, what will have changed for 2020? the difference with this is that the eu would have to be at the start those negotiations in those two years so it‘s essentially the best of full
both worlds. this is fiendishly contributed, i'm not sure that the two—year period will remain a two—year period will remain a two—year period, —— complicated, the eu has said it might consider a transition until 2022. we have wasted a year in the negotiations, we have had a meaningless phrases from the prime minister, brexit means brexit, a red white and blue brexit, and we had threats from the government that if we don't get what we want, we're going to withdraw cooperation on security measures... that‘s not true. cooperation on security measures... that's not true. all were going to slash corporation taxes. i think what we've seen over the last year if the british people paying the price for the shambolic negotiations, pound has plummeted, prices have gone up faster than wages and we have now got the slowest growing economy in the g—7, compared to the fastest—growing before the referendum. i think there
are real issues with uncertainty, certainly in the general election, when i was talking to my constituents, people were worried about theirjobs. your about theirjobs. colleagues constituents, people were worried about theirjobs. colleagues are shaking their heads and nothing behind you! i think she makes an important point about the single market and the necessary certainty we need to get to business, we all rely on our relationship with the european union. i have to pick up on the nonsense we have had from bernard jenkins that it is a goodwill payment, the uk gets back so goodwill payment, the uk gets back so much from its relationship with europe in terms of the money we get from infrastructure and education, our access to the single market which benefit our economy. heidi also laid the good point in terms of, this is 15 months on from the referendum and we're just starting to see some details, just a few
details of what might happen next. it's really not good enough given all the time that they've had. i think this is more about squaring off the squabbles in the tory party that it off the squabbles in the tory party thatitis off the squabbles in the tory party that it is about sorting out the mess that we're in. do respond to that, i will bring in. it's com pletely that, i will bring in. it's completely inaccurate to say that we get back more from the eu than we put in. there‘s been a lot of argument about this but nobody disagrees with the truth is that we pay a huge net contribution. this payment is no more than we currently payment is no more than we currently pay in but it will come to an end at the end of the interim period. i think you need to be honest about that. bernard is very courageous indeed. thank you very much for the compliment but i can do oh without it. the statistics authority have had to step in and tell boris to stop saying the 350 million being not accurate. people like bernard le roux lead disingenuous during the vote league campaign when they
didn't tell us what it meant. journalists say, is this what we voted for? we don't know what people voted for? we don't know what people voted for? we don't know what people voted for because people like bernard didn't have the courage of his convictions to set out what leaving the eu would mean and that's why we're in the mess where in at the moment. yes, we get. lots of people would say that there was a huge amount of confusion around the referendum, people will say that there was confusion because neither side was completely honest. christine you have lots to say on this. this is the tip of the iceberg. the conservatives are trying to say it‘s a goodwill gesture. we are seeing the first of the divorce payments, if you like. they‘re not acknowledging we have ongoing commitments in the eu and that this is going to cost an awful lot more than £20 billion. what we are beginning to see for the first
time is that the conservatives are having to open up and admit the reality of what they‘ve got us into. and what — i absolutely agree this is about the internal kwaub squabbling within the —— squabbling within the conservative party more than our future. people are worried about theirjobs. than our future. people are worried about their jobs. every sector of industry that you talk to is worried about the fact that we have lost a year that we are coming up to the date where where we are supposed to be leaving, if we get a two—year transitional period that will help but it kicks the can down the road for two years and every single sector of british industry is worried about the impact of brexit onjobs, on them, whether they‘ll actually be able to go on trading with the eu and it‘s just not good enough for the conservatives to try and float this as some sort of cure—all, when it‘s not. we still don‘t know what the deal is. as stephen says, i have to, his party when we were in the same situation
in scotland, his party laid the deal on the table in detail. people picked it apart and decided they didn‘t want it. picked it apart and decided they didn't want it. let me interrupt, this is one example from anthony on facebook. heidi, maybe you want to respond. we should leave the e u2 yea rs respond. we should leave the e u2 years after article 50, that is the law. that means we leave at the latest on 29th march 2019. it is eu law and what people voted for. well, i think the reality, the real world is so much more complicated. we have a two—year negotiating period. we have wasted a year of it. theresa may called a general election in order to strengthen her hand in the negotiations and the british people said we don't like what you are offering. the labour party gained seats in that election and so the idea that theresa may is going to be able to negotiate both a bespoke transition and then a bespoke final deal is for the birds. there are ways in which we can... as norman
smith said, you can‘t expect theresa may to actually stand up today and say what she wants, this is negotiation. anyone who works in business will know you have to ask for more than you are going to get, the other side will ask for more and in the end it‘s the art of compromise, what about the prospect of no deal? there is still - she's not going to unsay that no deal is better than a bad deal. the only reason it‘s difficult to reef leave the eu is not because of us, we want it to be easy, we want free trade, we wa nt it to be easy, we want free trade, we want to offer access to our market after we have left. they are making it difficult. if there is cliff—edges, if there are difficulties, they are going to be manufactured by the eu, for their own political reasons. this is very difficult for the eu. let‘s understand they‘ve never had a member state leave the eu before. it does raise questions about the viability of the eu if member states can leave it. ultimately, it‘s in the interests of everyone that we maximise trade and opportunities, economic opportunities on both sides
of the new frontier, and that‘s for their people and employment and jobs just as much as ours. they should wa nt to just as much as ours. they should want to do a free trade deal with the united kingdom as for example they have with canada. stephen, briefly. if bernard really knew what he was doing fthe tories knew what they were doing, this impacts on everyone of us, they would have laid it out and we could have judged it in the referendum or in the 15 months since. we have to remember it's a human impact. the eu nationals issue we have not touched on, we don't have time, but these are people who made the uk their home and deserve certainty and business needs certainty as well because we benefit from our membership of the eu and it could cost in scotland alone up to 80,000 jobs. that's people'sjobs. let's not forget what we are talking about, it's not the politics of the tory party, it's everybody else who is impacted by this disaster unfolding. christine. i have to ee, unfolding. christine. i have to agree, for bernard to say... we all knew that leaving the eu was not going to be easy. that was just one
of the fallacies the leave campaign tried to sell us. people are worried aboutjobs. tried to sell us. people are worried about jobs. it‘s not tried to sell us. people are worried aboutjobs. it‘s not good enough to keep telling this nonsense, it‘s the eu causing the problem, it‘s not. it's eu causing the problem, it‘s not. it‘s simply a very difficult thing to do which will have an enormous impact on our economy and the best thing is to give the british people the choice once they see what the deal is, the actual deal, not what the tories are telling us, the actual deal, and then give them a chance to choose again. thank you all so much. we could carry on for a long time, thank you forjoining us. still to come, the although—right uncovered. we speak to a man who spent a yearfilming uncovered. we speak to a man who spent a year filming undercover in the uk and the us finding out about politicised groups with far—right ideologies. during his time in the us he also witnessed the char lotsville terror attack when a white supreme sist drove into a group of protesters killing a 32—year—old woman.
let‘s get the latest headlines now. good morning. theresa may will today set out proposals for ending the stalemate in the brexit negotiations. she‘ll use a speech in florence to ask eu leaders to agree to a two—year transition period after march 2019 during which britain would pay brussels £18 billion. the north korean leader, kim jong—un, has described donald trump as "mentally deranged". in an unprecedented personal statement, via state media, mr kim said mr trump would "pay dearly" for his recent speech to the un. he was reacting to a speech by mr trump in which he called the dictator ‘rocket man‘ and said america could destroy north korea if it was forced to defend itself. a man and a woman have been charged with murder after a badly burned body was discovered in the back garden of a house in southfields,
in south—west london. police say they‘ve so far not been able to establish the person‘s age or gender. one of britain‘s most senior police officers has warned that the huge counter—terrorism effort is placing a strain on other areas of policing that is "not sustainable". sarah thornton, the head of the national police chiefs‘ council, argues that more funding is needed to maintain day—to—day policing. rescue workers in mexico city have called off their search of the ruins of a primary school following tuesday‘s earthquake. it‘s believed none of the children trapped when the building collapsed has survived. the country‘s president says there could still be people alive in collapsed buildings. 273 people are now known to have died and thousands more have been injured in the quake. more at
10am: now the sport. kelly smith has urged the fa not to be hasty about appointing a successor to former head coach mark sampson. he was sacked this week for inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour in a previous role and smith says she would like to see a female get the job. costa will be moving injanuary after the premier league champions chelsea agreed to sell him. he claimed he was treated like a criminal this summer after the manager told him that he wasn‘t in the club‘s plans. scotland‘s katrina matthew thinks it will be a dream come true after she was named europe captain for the solheim cup. does the term alt—right mean anything to you? it‘s a phrase that has been coined to broadly describe politicised groups who believe their white identity is being threatened by multiculturalism.
but who are they and what do they really stand for? and should we be taking notice? well, the anti—fascist group hope not hate set out to answer some of those questions. they sent a researcher undercover to live for a year amongst the most high—profile alt—right groups in the uk and america and feed back what he learnt. patrik hermansson experienced first—hand the violence in charlottesville and secretly filmed a lot of what he saw. patrik is here and we‘ll be speaking to him in a moment, but first here‘s a clip from his undercover filming. he‘s hearing from one of the most influential alt—right figures in america, greg johnson. we can speak to patrick now. thank
you for coming in. first of all, what did you witness, what were the things that have really stayed with you after that year of being with people from the alt—right? you after that year of being with people from the alt-right? there are many things. i mean, it‘sjust so much extreme hatred against — every minority you can think of is a target of these groups and they are extremely connected and they have strategies and long—term plans on how to make their ideas into public policy. the things you were hearing ona policy. the things you were hearing on a day—to—day basis were things like what? extreme homophobia, racism, it‘s holocaustjokes. everything you can think of. the worst of it, talks of blood running
down the streets, etc. why did you feel you had to film this undercover? i mean, you could always read about these groups and you can come up and talk to them as a journalist if you want to have racist quotes, that‘s not a problem. but we are not here to get them to say the worst things we can. we want to understand how they organise, how they mobilise, what their plans are in orderfor us to they mobilise, what their plans are in order for us to mobilise against them, get grass roots movements and campaigns to countertheir narratives. did you know what you we re narratives. did you know what you were getting yourself into? some of it, yes. some of it were worse than expected, yeah. what were the people like? aside from their views, were any of them nice people that you thought actually i could form a friendship with or were they the whole way through very difficult to
be around? it's both at the same time. i mean, at times they are really polite and welcoming and hospitable and i am a white guy and you have to take that into account. if you put them in the whole context of their politics, they become very unsympathetic. was it difficult for to you gain their trust, to actually be welcomed into what was essentially the inner circle? yeah, it really was, it was vetting people towards the end of it. it takes time. you have to sit down for months, talking about very normal things, everyday life and what your sta nce things, everyday life and what your stance is on different political issues and then slowly you will get closer and closer to the centre of it. people who follow us politics may be familiar with alt—right, particularly in the us, when you spoke to the groups here and in the
us did you feel that one was more extreme than the other? were they different? were there huge links? they‘re very closely linked and they send people back and forth and they‘re connected and talk to each other and follow the same types of media. but at the same time the us movement is more extreme. there‘s many reasons behind that. one of the most significant things is that the people there have guns, they are armed and put a strong emphasis on being armed and staying armed in the case of a race war. there is less of that in the uk and europe. of course we said in the introduction you were there in charlottesville on that day when the white supremesists drove that car into a crowd and one woman died. it‘s incredible more weren‘t killed. we have seen that from the news reporting angle. for you being
there what were your impressions of there what were your impressions of the day? it's a heavy day for me, as well, i was with them in the morning, the far—right rally and to the afternoon i switched clothes and stood next to the counterdemo when the car hit the crowd. of course we couldn‘t expect that but that‘s some violence will come out of these groups is inevitable. that‘s not totally unexpected because there is discourse around black people, against left—wing people, against women is extremely hateful and it‘s this group mentality that pushes some people very far and there will a lwa ys some people very far and there will always be those that will take this ideology to its extreme. we saw the clip there, it was quite extreme in nature. a lot of what you filmed was like that. is that truly reflective of what you witnessed on a day—to—day basis? yes, i would say so. these ideas of
forced sterilisation, eugenics, the jewish problem, as he called it, those are everyday conversations. what effect did this have on you as human beings, being surrounded, immersed in this for a year of your life? you‘re quite young, what did it do to you? it does things to you short term, it affects you, and you have to be very conscious of what they‘re saying and really connect with your friends outside of this, and really be thoughtful about how your thinking and what they have said and put it in a bigger context, but long—term, i don‘t think it would have any big effect. presumably you are shocked at the beginning and towards the end of the year, could anything shock you at that point? know, and that's the danger of these people and these
groups, they try to normalise their language through culture and social media. and it happens to you when you‘re in the inside. after awhile, that was wrote little shocked me. -- there was very little that shocked me. as you said yourself, you were in the inner circle, getting people tojoin the group, so did you just walk away? yes, you basicallyjust walk away? yes, you basicallyjust walk away. there are arrangements on how you do it. so, do they know who you are now? yeah, of course. my full name is out there. and have you had any contact with them since?” haven‘t, our group has very strong rules about not having connection with these groups. do you ever feel that your safety is at risk?”
with these groups. do you ever feel that your safety is at risk? i don't think so, we have a long history of doing this. there are other informants and they follow these groups very closely so i feel safe. thank you so much for coming in and speaking to us. a fascinating insight. the north korean leader, kimjong—un, has mocked donald trump as deranged. it‘s after the us president imposed sanctions on individuals and companies that trade with pyongyang — including foreign banks. it‘s aimed at stopping north korea continuing to develop its nuclear programme. in a speech to the un earlier this week, mr trump threatened to totally destroy north korea and called its leader, kim jong—un, rocket man. the united states has great strength and patience, but if it is forced to defend itself or its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy north korea. rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime. the united states is ready, willing and able, but hopefully this will not be necessary.
that‘s what the united nations is all about. nations is for. let‘s see how they do. in response, north korean leader kim jong own mocked donald trump in an unprecedented statement led by social media. i will surely add definitely came the mentally deranged american dotard with fire. let‘s speak to danny savage will stop at how is this being greeted in south korea, a part of the world very close to north korea?” south korea, a part of the world very close to north korea? i think over the period of time that this has been going on, for many years, although it has ramped up, i think
south koreans are very laid back about it. the rhetoric from north korea is nothing new to the people here, they are used to it. it‘s moving into the stage now where people are slightly more concerned, paying a bit more attention but they are not sitting on the seats, they‘re going about their everyday life as normal. the most alarming thing to come out of today‘s development is that north korea‘s foreign minister in new york hinted at what the next response would be for north korea, because kim jong—un, when he was saying those comments today, said that he is looking at what to do next. and where to go. he‘ll deliver an unprecedented reaction, he‘s basically said. the north korean foreign minister has hinted at the fa ct foreign minister has hinted at the fact that that could be then setting offa fact that that could be then setting off a nuclear bomb somewhere in the pacific ocean. every test has been underground in north korea so far,
but now they‘re thinking about setting of a nuclear bomb in the pacific which they would probably have to deliver there somehow, one presumes that would be via a rocket, and set off a bomb. that would really escalate this crisis if they we re really escalate this crisis if they were to set off an h—bomb alt at sea in this pacific. japan says the threat is totally unacceptable. but the big players like russia, china and south korea calling for calm, south korea, you can understand because they‘re right next door, just a few miles away from any trouble that could happen, and russia and china trying to keep a lid on the situation as much as they can. but the rhetoric has gone up another step today, the donald trump saying what he did and now kim jong—un coming back with an equally strong response. thank you for speaking to us. with me now is paul french, author of a book about north
korea and a regular visitor. i was just looking for an e—mail, from someone looking, i have found it, i think kim jong—un and donald someone looking, i have found it, i think kimjong—un and donald trump are like two children in the costume train to be top dog. politicians don‘t call each other childish names or have slanging and matches, who they need to grow up and be statesman—like. should we be worried or is it playground arguments between the leaders? it's a fairly new thing for an american president to respond to the north korean rhetoric. the north korean always talked like this, and said we will destroy america in a sea of fire. when it‘s responded to by the resident, of the united states, who can actually destroy north korea, it will escalate. and kim jong—un can actually destroy north korea, it will escalate. and kimjong—un going directly to the people and speaking to camera, that is an escalation.
directly to the people and speaking to camera, that is an escalationm this a case of donald trump should be ignoring kim jong—un and this a case of donald trump should be ignoring kimjong—un and hoping he stops? the reality is, those tests have been carried out at it‘s difficult for the international community to sit back and do nothing. we can't do nothing but the question is what we want to achieve. we need to get to the basis of white kim jong—un feels he needs these nuclear weapons, what he is looking to achieve. like your analogy of a playground bully, there is a point where the stronger and more of the person has to stand up and say, what you want, let‘s talk, baby to an —— may be through an intermediary like china, you have to be the big guy and act that way, and that‘s part of being the american president. we have been talking your questions, we will put them to paul this morning, let‘s have a listen to this festival. i don't fear north korea,
but should anyone else? know, you should not fear north korea as such. it is clearly at concerned that at country in by nation of treaties continues to test —— in violation of treaties continues to test nuclear weapons but we need to look at that. for us as a direct threat, we don‘t need to worry. as something that can destabilise the world around us, we have concerns. this question is from 22—year—old ross. have concerns. this question is from 22-year-old ross. what kind of relationship to countries like china and russia have with north korea? that‘s an interesting one because eve ryo ne that‘s an interesting one because everyone comes out and says china should do more, russia do more, why should do more, russia do more, why should they do more? there are historic religion ships between north korea and russia, the former soviet bloc and china is a
neighbouring country. russia is strong and has some influence over the north‘s economy but china is the key, they are the largest regional economy and power, they have direct concerns, they have good connections with north korea historically. i do actually agree with donald trump on this, it really is that we need to pressure china to take a more proactive role in talking to pyongyang. i know you have been visiting for over a decade in north korea, obviously the information they get is limited but they have any contravention of how serious the situation is right now, the sort of thing that the are saying, there? that‘s difficult to tell because it has been a 65 year process of certainly anti—american is. the korean war never really ended, there was an armistice soaked the north koreans often refer to themselves as still being at war. there‘s not a great understanding of what people‘s
views are in south korea, japan and china, people receiving very jaundiced view of things and they‘re not able to check that. so it‘s very ha rd to not able to check that. so it‘s very hard to check whether you are but they are super patriotic. i don‘t should ever doubt that people for good reasons or bad do follow kim jong—un and the leadership, largely because they have no alternative.” was talking to a colleague in the bbc language service a few weeks ago, and they were saying that kim jong—un is almost like a small child saying, please let me join your gang, iwant saying, please let me join your gang, i want to be popular, do you subscribe to the view that he wants attention from donald trump? yes, i think that north korea wants attention, it wants to be seen as a player. i think north korea does also feel that it could be threatened, its question of regime. the north korean regime has no
alternatives if it collapses, it has to stay in power. kim may not be as sta ble to stay in power. kim may not be as stable as we think in terms of the military, there was a possibility of a coup. there was only an assassination in february of his half brother, we don‘t know what happened but we have to assume there was in turn around doing. it is possible that he is deposed, having nuclear weapons and cyber warfare capabilities which has been another story in north korea, that gives an awful to power to a civilian president. it takes power away from conventional military. it could be him bolstering his opinion. he has nuclear weapons but he can‘t lead his people very well. so in nukes for aid packages a possibility. —— he cannot feed his people very well. let‘s get the weather now. it was particularly chilly start this morning, it is the autumn equinox and it did not half feel
like autumn. temperatures close to freezing but most of us started on a cracking note, mist and fog and blue skies, a lot of the ford has now gone. this was the scene in belfast, it has been hammering it‘s down this morning. all underneath this area of cloud and it‘s moving north and eastwards. even if you started with sunshine, no guarantee you will see the day out with it. it will be breezy and brightening up in the afternoon in northern ireland, rain spreading into western wales and west of scotland and then into south—west england, northern england and the midlands. if lidl is, east anglia —— if you are a cross is midlands comic anglia and the south—east, you will have a dry day. temperatures warming up quite nicely. a cloudy and the day, start of the evening, southwest, wales, the midlands, the rain will come and go. a few heavy bursts in the hills.
east of the pennines and eastern scotla nd east of the pennines and eastern scotland and the north east will stay dry, with a bit of brightness. northern ireland after the morning rain, you finish with sunshine. into tonight, lots of cloud across most of the country and patchy rain and drizzle becomes confined with part of the midlands, eastern and clear and south wales. further north, dry and south wales. further north, dry and mistand and south wales. further north, dry and mist and fog patches, temperatures not as chilly as last night. the southerly wind and the cloud to thank. it means a nadal start to the weekend. —— it means a dull start the weekend. northern ireland will continue to see some dry and bright weather continuing in the breeze. you stay fine in the north. after that grey start in southern areas, the afternoon looking much better, dry and sunny, highs of 19 or 20. into sunday, cloud and rain pushes back in again across ireland and western parts,
ireland will brighten up again, rain on and off in central and western scotla nd on and off in central and western scotland and turning down across western england and wales. sunshine continuing, 2a could be the high on sunday in the south—east, also temperatures around where they should be. certainly feeling a bit warmer than it has done. a major speech on brexit will be delivered by the prime minister today in the italian city of florence. she hopes to break the deadlock in negotiations with the eu as questions of unity amongst her cabinet anger. it's a great speech you will enjoy it very much. is this what britain voted for? boris on his morning jog. we will be talking to leavers and remainers who see what they‘re expecting from the speech.
almost 70% of women surveyed about a powerful epilepsy drug have not received new safety warnings will the dangers of taking it during pregnancy. it causes physical abnormalities in 10% of babies. we are going to hearfrom a mum whose two daughters have been affected. children born with heart problems until the 1940s were likely to die, this all changed thanks to a group of surgeons, we hearfrom this all changed thanks to a group of surgeons, we hear from three people who wouldn‘t be alive without the actions of the pioneering doctors. my parents were told there was nothing to be done. that you we re was nothing to be done. that you were going to die? yes, they said that my life expectancy would be 15 yea rs. that my life expectancy would be 15 years. it‘s quite a long time ago now. good morning. here‘s annita in the bbc newsroom with a summary of today‘s news. the prime minister will set out
proposals for ending the stalemate in the brexit negotiations in a speech this afternoon. theresa may will argue that both the uk and the eu have a shared responsibility to make the process work smoothly. she‘s expected to say explicitly for the first time that the uk will seek a transition deal which could last forup to a transition deal which could last for up to two years after leaving the eu. the north korean leader, kim jong—un, has described donald trump as "mentally deranged". in an unprecedented personal statement, via state media, mr kim said mr trump would "pay dearly" for his recent speech to the un. he was reacting to a speech by mr trump in which he called the dictator ‘rocket man‘ and said america could destroy north korea if it was forced to defend itself. a man and a woman have been charged with murder after a badly burned body was discovered in the back garden of a house in southfields, in south—west london. police say they‘ve so far not been able to establish the person‘s age or gender. one of britain‘s most senior police officers has warned that the huge
counter—terrorism effort is placing a strain on other areas of policing that is "not sustainable". it represents forces in england and wales. rescue workers in mexico city have called off their search of the ruins of a primary school following tuesday‘s earthquake. it‘s believed none of the children trapped when the building collapsed has survived. the country‘s president says there could still be people alive in other collapsed buildings. 273 people are now known to have died and thousands more have been injured in the quake. that‘s a summer of the latest bbc news. more at 10.30am. do get in touch with us throughout the morning. use the hashtag victoria live and if you text you will be charged at the standard network rate. now the sport with hugh. good morning. after that news of
mark sampson‘s dismissal as england‘s women‘s head coach this week and the fallout over his appointment was handled by the football association it‘s time for another selection for the role. it will be seen as an important one. sampson was sacked for inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour with female players whilst in a previous role. after claims that the fa knew about those issues during their recruitment process, there will now be close scrutiny over his successor not to mention the fact england have been on the rise. they‘re number three in the world. they were semifinalists at the last world cup and at this year‘s euro championships, so they will have high hopes for the world cup in france in a couple of years‘ time. the likes of the chelsea boss hayes and nick curbing of manchester city are among the early favourites. here is the view of kelly smith. they can‘t just be hasty is the view of kelly smith. they can‘tjust be hasty and just, within the first couple of weeks sign
someone up. they have to do research and background and get the right person, whether it‘s male or female. for me i would like to see a female ta ke for me i would like to see a female take over. we will have to wait and see what happens. it shows how much the game has grown because in previous years no one really would have batted an eyelid if things were going on in women's foot ball if things were going on in women's football and i am sure different things did happen but it wasn't brought to the forefront. it shows the women's game has moved on and we need to keep pushing on and do it in a positive way. costa will have a medical in the next few days before finalising his move away from chelsea. it‘s been reported he will cost as much as £50 million for his former side. he won‘t make a debut until the new year. he hasn‘t played yet this season having refused to return to london after falling out with the premier league champions over a proposed move earlier in the summer. west ham united will auction off match worn shirts from this weekend‘s london derby against
totte n ha m weekend‘s london derby against tottenham with all proceeds going to the victims, families and survivors of this week‘s earthquake in mexico. the club will double the figure raised by the auction before donating the total amount to an appeal organised by their striker hernandez and his fellow mexico teammate. james haskell is one of four players who toured with the british and irish lions who has been left out of a training camp. he is the most experienced player to be left out after 75 caps, he has only returned from injury, though. as has george cruise who is also left out. 18—year—old marcus smith is included. england name their squad for the autumn internationals next month. that‘s all the sport. more later. you have been getting in touch with
us this morning about the ratcheting up us this morning about the ratcheting up in pressure between north korea and the us. this e—mailfrom brendan. although the dialogue between president trump and kim jong un amounts to child—like brinkmanship it‘s good that world attention is being drawn to the reality of the frightening repressive regime in north korea. do keep comments coming in. that story orany of keep comments coming in. that story or any of the ones we are covering on this morning‘s programme. in a few hours‘ time, the prime minister theresa may will give a major speech updating us all on brexit negotiations so far. it is taking place in florence in italy 15 months after the uk voted to leave the european union. the pm is expected to propose a transitional deal with the eu of up to two years after brexit. this would mean the uk would go on paying potentially up to £18 billion in return for continued access to the single market and being able to negotiate its own trade deals. however, the eu has criticised the overall negotiating process, claiming progress on britain‘s divorce deal has been too slow.
the fourth round of brexit talks are scheduled to begin on monday after they were pushed back by a week. why would theresa may want to jet off to florence when it‘s cold here? i can‘t think. off to florence when it‘s cold here? i can't think. it's not exactly neutral territory. florence i can't think. it's not exactly neutralterritory. florence is chosen because it's at the heart of the continent in terms of geography and also because of its history as a successful trading nation. and also because of its history as a successfultrading nation. the central europeans, the austrians, the czechs, they think they‘re at the czechs, they think they‘re at the heart so does brussels, of course. she couldn't go to the netherlands because they‘re still trying to form a government after their elections from months ago. my money was on estonia because they have the rotating presidency of the eu and british troops are stationed there as part of a nato mission to deter russia. it turns out theresa
may‘s going there for a summit the following week. so i lost that bet. don't know if you have seen those hollywood films in which the main character is going through a crisis, ina rut. character is going through a crisis, in a rut. usually you see their best friend grabbing them by the shoulders and shaking them and saying, come on, it's time to reconnect and go back to your roots to work out what matters. that is what florence is to politicians. they go there when they want to show they're european, they want to show they're european, they want to show they understand the meaning of this continent and the rennaissance. that might be one of the reasons theresa may is going there. that's a long time ago. downing street will hope that‘s the image they put across, rather than what happened next. florence‘s miserable decline. rather than what happened next. florence's miserable decline. italy is one of the european community‘s founding members and its big brothers or sisters, if you like, germany and france are busy. here in germany and france are busy. here in germany it‘s coming up to election time and france has a lot of industrial action going on. italy it is, but why florence and not rome?
well, what british tourist doesn‘t ache to see florence? we can speak now to our political guru, norman smith, who‘s in florence. explain, this is a huge day, not only for the brexit process, but for the prime minister. it is a massive day. let‘s be honest, the brexit talks have kind of ground to a bit ofa talks have kind of ground to a bit of a deadlock. this is mrsmay‘s attempt to get things going again and basically it all boils down to money. don‘t know if you ever saw that film jerry maguire, you remember that with tom cruise and the famous line, show me the money! that is what eu leaders are saying, show me the money! theresa may is going to kind of give a nod and wink to some money but not going to spell out a specific amount. she‘s going to say during this transitional phase we will keep on paying our commitments. we can work out what
that means. probably means around £18 billion over the next two years. that i suspect is not going to be enough for eu negotiators. they‘re saying, hang on, you signed up to a load of other commitments and terms of pensions for european officials, ongoing projects which go on after 2020. there is debt repayments, you have to pay a bigger bill. this is mrsmay‘s first pitch on the cash side. second thing, eu nationals, the other big stumbling block in the negotiations, take a little look here, you can already see protests beginning to build up. these are by and large brits living in italy which is the other side of the real problem facing eu nationals living in britain because they‘re worried about what‘s going to happen to their rights as citizens living in italy. that is one of the real crunch points. we are told that today mrsmay will have more to say,
more reassurances about the position of eu nationals. we don‘t know what that is. it seems to me mrsmay has got to give details, warm words are no longer enough when you listen to the eu‘s chief negotiator, he is saying the clock is ticking. put to one side all the warm words, we have to get down to the nitty gritty, to the facts, the hard negotiating positions, so key for mrsmay is detail, detail, detail. she‘s got to give eu leaders some real gritty detail they can grasp and say, ok, we are now ready to move on to the next stage of negotiations. who do you think is the primary audience that theresa may is speaking to today? is she talking to the british public or is she talking to the politicians in brussels? well, look at this place. i mean, we have a top shot of the piazza here. she‘s talking to the rest of europe,
that‘s why she‘s come to florence, pa rt that‘s why she‘s come to florence, part of the culture and historical centre of europe, to send out a symbolic gesture that we brits, we are part of that european heritage. yes, we are leaving the eu, but no, we are not leaving europe. this is a speech targeted directly at eu leaders. the british audience, well, that will have to wait until the party conference. today is all about eu leaders. in a way, she‘s trying to say, look, let‘s leave on good terms. you two have a responsibility to make this work and she will also suggest, you know what, it‘s in your interests too that a deal is done because it‘s good for your economy if we can strike a good deal. but today the message is aimed absolutely at europe and other eu leaders. good to speak to you, you will be updating us throughout the day. the speech at 2pm and continuing coverage on the news channel. we can chat about this more now with richard tice, the co—chair of leave means leave which campaigns for a brexit that will see britain leave
the single market. lucy thomas, who is the former deputy director of britain stronger in europe, which campaigned for us to stay in the eu. and henry newman, who‘s the director of open europe, a think tank which opposes the european union and he‘s also a former adviser to the environment secretary, michael gove. thank you all for coming in. richard, first of all, what is it you want to hear from the prime minister today in that speech? she's going to give some very warm words. i think it‘s really important that she reiterates we are leaving the eu, the single market and customs union, of course we are good friends and neighbours, of course we will settle our accounts that are legally due and morally we pay a bit more. but the real key is that whatever she says, of course the european union is going to say it‘s not enough. what she needs to make very clear is that if they push too far we will walk away without a deal. we all know in business, that‘s where i come from, no deal is always better
than a bad deal. i can see a shaking head straightaway. do come in.” couldn't disagree more. for most businesses certainty is the real watch word. what they need to know is what happens on day one when we leave. it's really welcome there is going to be talk of a transition, of two years so businesses can plan and know what the terms are going to be. but the idea of walking away without a deal actually what i am hearing is thatis a deal actually what i am hearing is that is no longer part of the plan. she's not going to say that because it's a catastrophic for business. nonsense, that‘s a disastrous negotiating tact yikt. tactic. most countries operate under wto rules. we can happy do the same. just to clarify, you think this two—year transitional period which theresa may is putting forward where she wa nts to may is putting forward where she wants to pay in but also be able to negotiate trade deals is the right way for business it avoid that
cliff—edge? way for business it avoid that cliff-edge? what is critical we can start negotiating trade deals and change immigration laws. if nothing changes in that two—year period all you are doing is extending the status quo. if we take a step back, this is the first major update we have had on the overall "brexit" policy in nine months since the lancaster house speech. i'm not too worried about transition, we can argue whether it is necessary, we should be concentrating on what future relationship we want to have with the. the prime minister is right to say, both sides have a moral duty and a duty on citizens and businesses to come to agreement. also, legal duty, to negotiate an agreement with the uk. they are in danger by stalling the talks, refusing to switch to allow discussions on trade and the future state, making that impossible. the problem here is that theresa may is in an incredibly weak position, calling the general election, wanted to go to brussels saying, this is what we are doing, being strong, thatis what we are doing, being strong, that is not the reality. she is
still the prime minister, that is not the reality. she is stillthe prime minister, still commands the commons, under the constitution, she is in charge. what we have seen is, the cabinet discussion on the future direction of brexit, the cabinet agreed. the cabinet agreed except the foreign secretary decided to write in the telegraph basically outlining his own ideas. what he did was exact to what he should do, promote the interests of the uk, optimistically, of the world, it was a fantastic article. without telling the prime minister, he ‘s boss. article. without telling the prime minister, he 's boss. it is in line with the lancaster house speech, the only difference between them is the detail of the transitional agreement. we must be free to start changing things. some discussions inside cabinet about the future, inevitably, this is one of the most important issues that the country has ever faced, so yes, there is no virgins around the table, different positions, but the prime minister has managed to chart a way through to find an agreement and we will see more about that later today. we
should be asking, what relationship do we want in the long—term? need to be further enough away from the single market and the european institutions that we can determine our own future. some areas where we wa nt our own future. some areas where we want to remain close to europe on defence and security, and other areas where we want to move further away. there will be costs of leaving europe, we have discussed those during the referendum but also benefits. if we stayed to close we cannot get any of the benefits. taking a step back, i don't envy theresa may, she has a really difficultjob on her hands. i disagree with you both about boris johnson, this was absolutely in getting his vision out there before theresa may so he could say, i have had a go, i said it should be optimistic! she has her cabinet audience, to try to keep everybody on side, so far has them agreeing to a transition term, actually, as henry said, what about going further forward ? henry said, what about going further forward? what are the future trade terms, she cannot get her cabinet to agree on that, and the use side, who
she absolutely has to try to unlock this deadlock with them, she will talk about the bill, making progress towards that, citizens rights, but listening to what michel barnier has said yesterday, i think it is badly possible that the welcome back and say, this is not enough. they always do that, they are good at theatre of negotiations, do more, insufficient progress. we should be sceptical about that. he holds the cars. -- cards. we hold the cards, this issue of paying access is a nonsense, nobody is going to pay, the eu should pay us because they export so much more to us. you say that we hold the cards, the business community will say that... let me finish, if there is a cliff edge... if there is a cliff edge, there
could be... that is a personal opinion, other people who work in business would say the fear is that there is a cliff edge, mps have talked about it one hour ago, saying, the real concern is people jobs one hour ago, saying, the real concern is peoplejobs and businesses, they are worried if there is a cliff edge, that will affect their business. that issue opinion but is not what everybody watching the programme will feel. that is not what everybody thinks but the reality is, over 90% of businesses do not export to the european union, they are not affected. they are affected by the pound plummeting, inflation rising, people having money in their pockets, that is happening now. and it is interesting, and it is interesting, businesses are not suffering, 400,000 more people unemployed, unemployment at a record low, economy doing really well, what is exciting, already supermarkets are looking to source more products than the uk. —— from the uk. house—builders, calm manufacturers. so many exciting opportunities and
yet so much negativity in westminster about the downsides. the upside, which boris referred to, so much more exciting. the pound has plummeted, and we have had mark carney, the head of the bank of england, saying he will potentially have to raise interest rates and we must worry, so really, the economy. . . must worry, so really, the economy... unemployed is down, re cord economy... unemployed is down, record low, employment, record high, tax taken, personal record low, employment, record high, tax ta ken, personal self—employed tax, record high, nobody has that clear a picture about what is happening to the economy. inflation is up in the uk, in inflation is also up in the eurozone, which jumped up last year, —— german inflation has jumped up 1% jumped up last year, —— german inflation hasjumped up 1% since la st inflation hasjumped up 1% since last year. not the impact we were expected... because there was emergency measures, quantitative easing, put in place immediately after the referendum. the package was exactly on the money, this is a question of cash, the eu wants our cash, theresa may will say we will
settle our debts and obligations and the transition is a way of paying to play. it will go some way to giving you some of the money they need, and that is... money overall is one of the cards where uk is the strongest. lucy is right that the uk has other cards, but what is also important is to go back to what the prime minister says, this is in today's newspapers. there is a moral duty on both sides to come to an agreement. businesses want that, citizens want that, this is a divorce, it can be amicable, does not need to be acrimonious. how much about this is divisions in the conservative party, played out in brussels and attentively to the detriment of britain? unfortunately, we have seen the negotiations been done a little bit piecemeal, what should have happened is you get agreement within cabinet, you get a clear position on, this is what we are asking for, and then go for it, then trigger article 50. it has been the other way around, there are still
disagreement, different cabinet saying different things, it is unfortunate in my mind that the talks are being dominated by all of those differences, and so the uk is not united and the eu sees that. that is why the government policy must be set out today and everybody can point to that and say, this is the policy. 0ver can point to that and say, this is the policy. over the last nine months, we have not heard that much, the article 50 speech, flurry of important position papers, but on detailed technical question, once she has laid out the overall policy, i think the whole cabinet can point to that and say, that is the policy. despite the changes of the general election back in june, despite the changes of the general election back injune, policy has not shifted, still leaving the single market, still leaving the customs union. the transition is everything changes but nothing changes, we will be out of the single market, out of the customs union, out of the eu, at the end of the process, but things will broadly stay the same, giving businesses the assurances they need. the reality is, many entrepreneurs up and down the country, from small businesses to big businesses, james dyson,
white happy, as he said last week, to go to wto. he does is manufacturing in the far east, so he doesn't have people here, he doesn't export from here. he does, he's more worried about the regulatory impact. the tariffs will mean it will cost more money, the cars you talk about exporting, 10% more expensive, and... that is why people are sourcing from the uk, great opportunity for manufacture and businesses. we have negotiated only one week in four at the moment, if this was business, it would be 20 47, every day of the week, to get this done and done quickly. —— 24/ seven. we need to accelerate this process , seven. we need to accelerate this process, and that is absolutely critical. that is where the european union are... they have been at full. thank you all so much, we could talk about this for ages, and i suspect you will in the green room, but thank you forjoining us.
coming up: a powerful epilepsy drug is being prescribed without explaining the dangers to expectant mothers. we will talk to one of those mothers affected next. the annual invictus games kicks off tomorrow in toronto, created by prince harry for injured servicemen and women, he will be their opening them. we went to meet one of the contestants, who is taking part in the first time. voiceover: the taking part in the first time. v0|ceover: the invictus games, it will be one of the biggest challenges of michelle‘s life. but, she is not doing it alone. we are team michelle! what is the invictus games? invictus games has loads of sport and if you are in the military, and you can go to the invictus games and if you have been hurt they will support you. invictus games and if you have been hurt they will support youm invictus games and if you have been hurt they will support you. it is a
mini olympics, people competing, with how they have been affected. michelle is a sergeant in the raf. why are you taking part?” michelle is a sergeant in the raf. why are you taking part? i deployed, i got why are you taking part? i deployed, igota why are you taking part? i deployed, i got a virus when i was out there, so that gave me a problem with my heart, which means that i collapsed randomly, just standing up from here, and the more i collapse, the more i did not want to go out because i was scared. canada is hosting the invictus games this year, they will be taking place in the city of toronto. the toronto games are going to be, i am promised... (!) games are going to be, i am promised... u) the biggest and best invictus games yet, with more competitors competing in more sports in front of more spectators than ever before. toronto will take on the responsibility for a competition that has the power to inspire millions of people around the world
and to remind us all of the amazing contribution that our service men, women and veterans contribution that our service men, women and veterans make. i can't believe it, i still can't believe that we are going, but it means so much to me. and we have all gone through this journey together. it is amazing then to go out there, to the games. i'm absolutely amazed, the first time she went in the pool, she wouldn't even get her how wet, the second time, only did half a length of the 25 metre pole, now she is doing a 50 metre pool, it is unbelievable. i'm very proud, getting to watch my step mother possibly win a medal, it is unbelievable. i'm really proud! why is that? because she got in, she got in. what does a typical day build look like? i have my own rather, i'm doing running and swimming. because
i cannot go anywhere on my own, depends on other people coming with me to training, i wouldn't be able to do it if! me to training, i wouldn't be able to do it if i did not. we will do a swim, comeback tom then we will be on the roller. one minute sprint and four minute sprint. how are you finding the training? part of my symptoms, the more i do, the more i collapse, but the more i need to do to train, it is a bit of a circle but we are getting there. how do you help michelle get ready for the biggest competition of her life? this is your training session, what do you do in it? we do all different types of stuff. freestyle, backstroke, sprint starts, all new to us, lewis is very clever at this stuff. how come you have to be here and be along with michelle?“ stuff. how come you have to be here and be along with michelle? if she collapses, i have to get this
beeping thing, put it to her heart, and... she cannot be on her own. that is why i am it is brilliant that you come along whenever michelle needs to swim, why is that important to you, why do you wa nt to is that important to you, why do you want to do that? it is very important that i come here, because, it motivates her, it really does, apparently. so i really want to teach her what she is doing wrong because i can see what she's doing wrong in the pool. what are some of the things that you say when she doing it wrong? fingers together! does not do that a lot. he is a tough coach! yes, that he is amazing. i certainly swim faster! laughter you are going along to toronto, to do the invictus games, how excited are you to get to do that?” do the invictus games, how excited are you to get to do that? i am dead hyped, cannot wait to see all of the
other injured people, the affected people, and cannot wait to help them. do you ever think that you would be able to get from where you are before to now? not in a million years, i literally did not leave the house at one point because i was too scared, now i am diving and swimming. icannot scared, now i am diving and swimming. i cannot describe it, i was like a mother that sat on the sofa, that sounds awful but that is what i did, because i was too scared. now it is making me fitter, better, stronger, that is what we always say, and a better mother. training really hard, isee... (!) i see... (!) studio: coming isee... (!) studio: coming up: a lack of safety warnings on an epilepsy drug taken during pregnancy, the bbc has been told as clues of it, we will be speaking with one of those mothers affected. we will hear from three people only
alive today because of a group of pioneering surgeon in london, who operate on children born with congenital heart problems after the second world war. —— surgeons. the prime minister will set out proposals for ending the stalemate in the brexit negotiations in a speech this afternoon. theresa may will argue that both the uk and the eu have a shared responsibility to make the process work smoothly. she‘s expected to say explicitly for the first time that the uk will seek a transition deal which could last for up to two years after leaving the eu. the north korean leader, kim jong—un, has described donald trump as "mentally deranged". in an unprecedented personal statement, via state media, mr kim said mr trump would "pay dearly" for his recent speech to the un. he was reacting to a speech by mr trump in which he called the dictator ‘rocket man‘ and said
america could destroy north korea if it was forced to defend itself. a man and a woman have been charged with murder after a badly burned body was discovered in the back garden of a house in southfields, in south—west london. police say they‘ve so far not been able to establish the person‘s age or gender. one of britain‘s most senior police officers has warned that the huge counter—terrorism effort is placing a strain on other areas of policing that is "not sustainable". the npcc represents forces in england and wales. rescue workers in mexico city have called off their search of the ruins of a primary school following tuesday‘s earthquake. it‘s believed none of the children trapped when the building collapsed has survived. the country‘s president says there could still be people alive in other collapsed buildings. 273 people are now known to have died and thousands more have been injured in the quake.
now the sport with hugh. kelly smith has urged the fa not to be hasty in appointing a replacement. smith would like to see a female get the job. costa will move in january after the a female get the job. costa will move injanuary after the premier league champions chelsea agreed to sell him. he had claimed he was treated like a criminal this summer after the manager told him he wasn‘t in the club‘s plans. james haskell is the most experienced of four british and irish lions to be left out of an england training camp this weekend. george cruise, jonathan joseph —— also miss out but marcus
smith is included. sodium valproate is a powerful drug that‘s been prescribed for decades to people with epilepsy and bipolar disorder. but if taken during pregnancy the drug, known as epilim, carries a 10% risk of physical abnormalities in unborn babies and a 40% chance of autism and learning disabilities. that‘s why women of child bearing age aren‘t meant to be prescribed it but a survey shown exclusively to bbc news suggests that nearly 70% of women did not receive the new safety warnings. about 20,000 children have been harmed by valproate medicines in the uk since the 1970s. the medicines regulator said the drug had been kept under constant review. with me now is deborah mann. she took the drug while trying to conceive and had several miscarriages and still births.
her two daughters have both been affected by the drug. branwen mann is deborah‘s 22 year old daughter. also with me, clare pelham, the chief executive of the epilepsy society. thank you all for coming in. i want to talk to you breb br, it sounds like you have had an horrific experience. yeah, i was overdosed onned so yum valproate. i have lost three previously, this is probably why. did you have any warning at all, any conversation with a medical professional? after i all, any conversation with a medical professional? afteri lost all, any conversation with a medical professional? after i lost one of my children i asked if it was to do with the medicine. the only thing i was told was yes, it will be about
8%t was told was yes, it will be about 8% t won‘t happen to you. and, yeah. different story. it‘s not true. 8% t won‘t happen to you. and, yeah. different story. it's not true. bran win, your life has been hugely affected by the drug that your mum took. yeah. when i was little i seemed to be perfectly normal but i used — i still do, iwear splints every day, i used to get pulled out of primary school in the middle of class and say, do your exercises but now it's worse, i am in chronic pain, iget now it's worse, i am in chronic pain, i get migraines, i have issues with my brain. i have been told i could die any time. i could become blind. i could have a stroke. it's just so many mixed signals, i don't know what's going on. how do you live with that? i don't know. i really have no idea. i am one of the
people who believe in the saying you only live once and i literally live every day as it comes. to be honest, what i am doing now is i am just helping the charity get the message out. which you are doing today which is so important. for you, deborah, how hard is it to look at your children, as a mum we feel guilty a nyway children, as a mum we feel guilty anyway about so many things, but how ha rd anyway about so many things, but how hard is it for you? i have lost three children so for me these are so special. some people to say to me you are too huge as a family and so forth, but for me this is as it should be. we love each other. i tell them that all the time because at the end of the day they‘re special. and as i said, we have been told they shouldn‘t have happened. so they are. i can see that bond as you sit here now and the grins between you. clare, how common are
these stories that we are hearing? they‘re worryingly common. the first thing to say is this isn‘t a small issue. last year 28,000 women who we re issue. last year 28,000 women who were of child—bearing age were prescribed this drug and the survey that we conducted this month jointly with young epilepsy and epilepsy action showed 20% of the women taking this drug who responded had no clue it could cause disabilities. the same number had never had a conversation with the healthcare professional about the risks. that‘s a truly worrying statistic. the reason that we are here today is that we think that the time for volu nta ry that we think that the time for voluntary guidelines, suggestions, hints and so on is well past. this drug has been prescribed in the uk since 1974. it‘s about time it was made mandatory by the nhs for the women taking this drug to have a conversation with a healthcare professional at least once a year. there is one man who can make this
happen and his name isjeremy hunt. it's happen and his name isjeremy hunt. it‘s not about money, it‘s about the willpower to do something about it. to give leadership to the system. anybody who is on long—term medication when they go to their doctor would expect to have a conversation, even if you go on a course of short—term medicine you will be told what the side—effects would be and risks could be. is it clear why these conversations aren‘t taking place? we think, it's hard to be sure, it‘s certainly hard to be sure, but what we think is two things. doctors are overwhelmed. they‘re very busy. they focus on why — it‘s understandable they would focus on what is compulsory and this isn‘t. this is a suggestion. it falls down the list. the other thing is that epilepsy is a cinderella condition. there is still a stigma. many with it don‘t talk about it and tell closest friends and work colleagues. it‘s not top of mind in the same way that other conditions are. that‘s why we are here today to
make people more aware of the significance of this condition and the 450 babies born every year to women taking this drug. you agree? very much so. i come from an older e, very much so. i come from an older age, obviously, and in those days i was automatically put in a class with people with learning disabilities because i had epilepsy. i have learned only recently i am actually not in that bracket but i have lived my life as i have been. as if! have lived my life as i have been. as if i have been, which is, it happens very common and in this support group i volunteer for at a charity we see this all the time, so many women that are undermined, their abilities are undermined and they don't achieve their potential. is this down to lack of information about the disease, lack of understanding? people are frightened by it. you have women who are having — i mean, i have had seizures
outside and people will crowd around and stare or they will leave. you will get people that help but they overhelp. you are supposed to leave a person, move through the seizure process, even this doesn't happen. people are just frightened of it. so what needs to be done now? are you talking to doctors? you mentioned that you want jeremy talking to doctors? you mentioned that you wantjeremy hunt to bring this in, is there a way to speak to doctors to try to get doctors, for example, to say as you say, every year when you get a repeat prescription you need to have a consultation? that's exactly what should happen. good doctors do that. we are worried about the 20%, the missing 20%. last year the medicines regulatory agency introduced a really good range of information tools to be made available to support those discussions with a doctor and nurse or even a pharmacist. 0ur survey showed that
68% of those taking a drug had never seen or heard of it. it's notjust reaching the people it needs to reach. i have spoken to my gp, they receive their toolkit five weeks ago. local pharmacist i have spoken to haven't seen it and they're supposed to be giving it out. this came out, as she said, last year, and it's not being done. are there other drugs, i am thinking if you get prescribed this medicine when you are a teenager, for example, and then you become a woman of child—bearing age who wants to have children, is there an alternative safe d rug children, is there an alternative safe drug that those women can be placed upon? that's where it's really important that you have the discussion with your own doctor. for many people the answer to that question is yes. for a few people it will be a very difficult decision and you need to walk through the risks involved to you as stopping the medication, and to the potential risk to an unborn baby, it has to be a personal detailed tailored
discussion. are you angry? yes, but you sit on that. i mean, at the end of the day you have to get on with your life. your children need you. you have to — you just have to get on. you sit on that because there's no address, i was involved in that very first, when they did the compensation thing a number of years ago, i was involved in that, when that fell through. it has never been picked up since. so, what do you do? you have to get on with your life and realise maybe there is a chance for compensation, if jeremy hunt moves forward and gets off his bottom. but, yeah... we arejust carrying on. what's the worst thing is dealing with the issues that children face. we have seen children change and develop the syndrome.
sometimes it hasn't been picked up because doctors are not looking at people properly. then when they hit teenager years you have got other things kick in because chemical processes come in. as they grow older we are seeing other changes, developmental changes within them. we are very concerned. as a charity leading support group for facts we see these things all the time. for you, do you get angry with the situation, branwen? to be honest, it‘s more shock than anger. because i have met so many young people and it‘s shocking what they‘re going through. i mean, one of the things that — through. i mean, one of the things that - i through. i mean, one of the things that — i have met this family that i have known for quite a while and this woman has a daughter who has
severe spina bifida i think it‘s one of the most severe cases we have seen. it's heart-breaking to see all these families affected and yours included. thank you for coming in. i am so grateful to you. children who were born with congenital heart problems up until the 1940s stood little chance of reaching adulthood because at that time heart surgery was simply ruled out as impossible. but things changed dramatically and suddenly these children stood a chance of leading normal lives when a group of london surgeons inspired by an american doctor based in the uk during ww2 decided to challenge the accepted wisdom and started operating on children‘s hearts at guy‘s hospital in london. victoria spoke to tom treasure, he‘s a heart surgeon who trained with some of the doctors who transformed heart surgery in the uk. he‘s now written a book to highlight their achievements, it‘s called "the heart club". and she also spoke to three people who would not be alive today if it wasn‘t for the actions of these pioneer doctors. geraldine west was born in 1944, john hunt was born in 1948 and xerxes talati was born in 1950.
they were all "blue babies" which meant they had very little energy and looked blue in appearance because the blood that was being pumped around their bodies didn‘t have enough oxygen in it. thank you all very much for coming on to the programme, it‘s very good to meet you all. i want to ask you three if i may first of all what your parents were told back then when you were very young, what they were told about your heart condition? well, my parents were told that there was nothing to be done. that you were going to die? yes. they said that my life expectancy would be seven to 15 years. wow. quite a long time ago now. do you mind me asking how old you are? 73. 0k. what about yourself? well, i think it was a similar story, because i was in east africa and a child that is blue in colour, well i think survival is very poor.
but i was very lucky indeed, because my grandfather was qualified with the pioneer heart surgeon at the time, mr brock, and he wrote a letter to him. and brock said, i will see him when he is four and see how he goes. and john, what were your parents told? well, depends when, because they were... i was part of a large family, nine of us in the family, and i suppose the signs began to show when i think, as in the case of all of us, we started to squat. the parents noticed the blueness and so they were told various things in the beginning. but i can only say that i found a sketch with the notes from my father, where he was obviously told of the
technical side of the possibility of why the blueness was caused. and it really went from there. the local gp, then more and more specialists until, well, we have the story. could you walk far? could any of you walk ten yards, 20 yards? no. you could take a few steps and then what would happen? i would squat. to catch your breath. we all did that, it is fascinating. i can squat now, which not many people can. up until 1946, why was heart surgery not considered an option in this country? it was because people were terrified of operating on the heart, there was a view that if you touched the heart it would stop, it would not beat again. if you cut into it, it you would never stop the bleeding. clearly there was a challenge to that and there had been some, a little run of operations in the 1920s, both in london and in boston, which were very well documented, but they were really pretty much disastrous, if you take the full story. then in 1929 the boston
surgeons wrote a paper saying, a final report, and there it is in the subtitle and then the resistance grew, the specialist cardiologists went from a position of saying, this is experimental, who knows, to, shouldn't be done, to this is contra—indicated. so there was a fixed opposition to it on reasonable grounds. they weren‘tjust being... obstreperous. no not at all, it was reasonably well considered. so what specific event happened to change that view? there was a couple which we have earmarked specifically in the book. one is that a young american who had done some training in the brompton in 1939 went back and he was chosen to lead, as the chest surgeon, an american hospital set up in anticipation of d—day. and he believed, along with the other london
surgeons he trained with, that the heart should not be a no—go area, that it should be amenable to fixing. and then he did this extraordinary series of removing bullet and shrapnel from 134 soldiers, all of them lived, and he reported that to the british association. that was one key item in this history. the other was the american surgeons, blalock, and he came to guy's as part of an exchange. that had come about again as a result of the war. the man who came back to be the dean at guy's was quite a war hero and he wrote to his opposite number and they dreamed up this idea that they would have an exchange. so in the bombed, wrecked guy's hospital the cloth makers, one of the city gilds, put up the money and they set up an exchange programme and they brought blalock
for a month to guy's. where he operated and he demonstrated not operating within the heart, but a very clever operation to get some of the blue blood, lacking oxygen, back to the lungs, bypassing the heart and it was hugely successful and he repeated that success in guy's. so those two inputs and the mood post—war got them going. how did you come to be seen by these heart doctors then? well, i think we have all agreed we have been incredibly lucky, because six years after this, my parents were told there‘s nothing to be done, my mother was approached in the street by someone who said, my cousin is one of leading heart specialists at guy‘s. why would they approach your mum, what did they see that gave them a clue? a blue child in a pushchair. because i didn‘t graduate from the pushchair
until i was ten actually. but i what had the blalock. i had surgery when i was seven. which was not successful. and i came very close to becoming a statistic at that point. and i wasn‘t as well after that. but then i had the blalock when i was 10 and transformed my life. kept me going until i was 34. when you had another operation. you talked about your grandfather writing a letter, i mean again do you regard that, as geraldine does, asjust a piece of luck really? oh, absolutely, i think all three of us have agreed are incredibly lucky i think to have had these operations and survived. there were many who didn't. that is true.
because it was still considered very experimental. how do you regard what‘s happened to you. luck doesn‘t do it! in a way, i suppose, i mean maybe i‘m more average than these two fantastic guys, in that the great luck was first of all that the national health service came in in 1948, i was born in 1948, and then when we discovered tom‘s work, that the peacock club got together to focus on heart surgery in 1948. and i think all i can say with an incredible amount of gratitude and the wonder is that the... the fact that each of us and just talking for myself, you know, i had, we had, the best heart pioneers, experts i think in the world. and for an average chap like me, living in the middle of the country, with a relatively ordinary family, you know, not loads of money and all the rest of it, literally getting the best. and i have to say and you know to date i still believe that i am actually getting the best treatment
available and i have been with brompton hospital during the whole of the period and yeah, just incredible gratitude. i think you actually met the doctors who operated on you as an adult, what did you say? yes, idid. it was the second operation which was required and i was at school then and i used to go and see brock for yearly check—ups. and when i was 16, he said to me
that your condition is deteriorating and therefore i'll operate on you in the summer, and i was 17 by then. but he did say that i only had a 50% chance of survival. well, the choice was limited at that time, because if i went on to the age of 20 i think it would have been zero. so i had to take that choice. you had nothing to lose in a way. yes. in terms of what russell brock did, he features hugely in your book, tom, just describe what his technique was. and how it shaped heart surgery today. the key innovation that he set out to do and did and then documented was to operate inside the heart. at that stage, it had to be done blind, the heart carried on supporting the circulation, no heart, lung machine. it was by feel and judgment. and so he opened up the outflow
from the right ventricle, which contains the blue blood and allowing to it reach the lungs by freeing up some of the muscle and some of the valve. he also pioneered the same sort of closed approach for mitral stenosis, which is not congenital and it isn't something that is present at birth, but it was common as a consequence of rheumatic fever. so it's the same principle that if you had a narrowed valve he and other surgeons said, we can open up narrowed valves. how did they open it up, did they put something in to keep it open or cut something out? well they cut out some of muscle and where the valve was fused, because it had leaflets and if they're stuck each to the edge, they can free that and allow the valve to move and open again. so they needed to know
the structure well and to be able to do it by feel. why is it important for people today to hear about the achievements of these pioneering surgeons? i think it is all too easy, because now hundreds and thousands of heart operations are done and people expect great outcomes. at that time, as we said, it was outside accepted practice and actually opposed. so they had to find a way to do that within a safe environment for themselves and their patients and one of brock's great visions, along with morris campbell, was to form this club and what we have now is these minutes of every one of their meetings, so we can see a contemporary account of how they saw the problem, how they planned it as a team, including the anaesthetists and various other people and then how they looked at the consequences and results very carefully to get better. it was the teamwork and the planning and the strategy which i think distinguishes them from other people working at about that time. what is it like for you being here alongside patients of these men? it's fantastic.
it's wonderful, because i remember brock, i was in theatre with brock a couple of times, once as a student, once as a young doctor. i remember campbell as a very senior leader and reflecting and donald ross, who features in the story, who was my colleague, my teacher and colleague and marvin sturridge who operated on geraldine. so they knew as young patients these people who framed my life as a training surgeon in the 70s and 80s. well thank you all very much. it‘s been really good to get you all together. and the book is the heart club by tom treasure, thank you for telling us about it and thank you for coming on the programme. we wish you all the best. studio: vicky has got in touch with us after hearing the conversation with deborah, no family can too
huggy. with deborah, no family can too huggy, i have lost five babies, i know her pain. thank you forjoining us. sunny spells in the north and east and filling warm with the sunshine. by and filling warm with the sunshine. by sunday could be warmer across eastern parts but across the west again there is rain slowly moving in from the west. this is bbc newsroom live. i‘m christian fraser live in florence. the headlines at 11.00: theresa may is on her way to florence for her significant brexit speech, with a message that the uk and european both have a responsibility to make brexit work.
if things move on to the next stage, we want to see a proper basis established for the future trading relationship, for partnerships in areas like security. we want to see things move forward well. ina in a speech in the city she is expected to propose a two—year transition deal costing about £18 billion a head of a prominent trade deal. we will have the build—up from here in florence ahead of the important speech at two o‘clock. also coming up this hour: 0ne one of britain‘s senior police officers warns the strain for