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tv   BBC News  BBC News  October 12, 2017 8:00pm-8:46pm BST

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this is bbc news. i'm ben brown. the headlines at 8pm. the eu warns of deadlock after the latest round of brexit talks — as the two sides still fail to agree on the divorce bill. on this question, we've reached deadlock which is very worrying. while there is still work to be done, much work to be done, we've come a long way, it's important to recognise the significant progress we've made since june. police in new york and london are investigating after a string of sexual assault allegations against hollywood producer harvey weinstein. emma thompson has joined those condemning him. i didn't know about these things, but they didn't surprise me at all and they're endemic to the system anyway. sally—anne jones, the british woman recruited by so—called islamic state in syria, has reportedly been killed in a drone strike. 12 million households will have their energy bills capped by the government from next year. labour says the cap
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should start now. also in the next hour, an entire city is evacuated in california as wildfires spread. at least 2a people have died in more than 20 separate blazes, which also destroyed homes and marijuana farms. coming up at 8:45 p:m., meet the author. we talked to simon heffer about his new book. good evening and welcome to bbc news. the european union has warned the brexit negotiations have entered a state of "very disturbing" deadlock, with disagreement over the money the uk will owe when it departs the biggest cause of the impasse.
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the eu's chief negotiator, michel barnier, said that as a result he can't recommend to eu leaders next week that trade talks begin. brexit secretary david davis however talked of the significant progress that has been made. our political editor laura kuenssberg's report contains flash photography. she wasn't there to help. eu super girl and anti—brexit campaigner had slinked her way in today. but listening to the eu chief negotiator, it will need a real superhero to get this moving. translation: we have had useful technical discussions michel barnier said. but we are in deadlock. it is disturbing. that means the talks won't go his way for now. to start talking trade, in the future. the position we are in now is defined by the council's criteria of sufficient progress.
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the next step is the european council in october, and clearly we would like them to give michel barnier the means to broaden the negotiation, it is up to them whether they do it. i think it is in the interest of europe and the united kingdom that they do. listen carefully though. it was not all doom. a promise to find a way. for now, though, the talks are stuck. her cabinet at home, split on what to do, the prime minister left with a brave face. there has been good progress made in these talks and michel barnier himself has recognised that over the coming weeks we will be able to make constructive progress as well. in private, and increasingly in public, uk ministers are frustrated that the eu won't budge. some brexit backers are starting to wonner if it will be soon time to walk away. with the eu saying deadlock,
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when you do think we should say walk away? well, foreign secretary? what is the answer? we think, as i say, that we made some very helpful suggestions to get the thing, get the great ship moving down the slipway and on to the open seas, that is what what we want to see. we see no reason that should not take place, we are looking for some urgency from ourfriends and partners and a time to put a tiger in the tank and get this thing done. but labour thinks the tories' approach is the problem. not the eu side. the danger is we will get to march 2019, with no deal, we will fall out of the eu, we will go on to world trade organisation rules and there will be threats to a lot ofjobs all across britain. but hang on. for months round here, it has almost been impossible to find anyone who really believes that this month would be the moment when the talks would move to the vital next phase. there has been some progress
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behind closed doors, just not very much and there won't be more until the political leaders are ready to intervene. but today's drama in brussels doesn't mean the chances of a deal are dead. they are working hard in whitehall to move things to a conclusion. but politicians on both sides may have to budge for that to happen. the deal that will define the decisions that change our lives is, tonight, still farfrom reach. the telegraph's brexit commissioning editor, asa bennett is our westminster studio. thank you for being with us. we heard from michel barnier saying it is deadlock and david davis says there is progress. who are we to believe? we have to take boat —— both sides with a pinch of salt,
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with negotiations saying it would be with negotiations saying it would be with the british talking it up, and the eu saying to restrain yourself in the pessimism from michel barnier because he now acknowledges there is progress, just not enough and it suits him that way because he wants to make the british people feel dread and gloom and despair because if their resolve weakens, the british hand would be played with wea ker british hand would be played with weaker determination. what about the summit of the eu leaders next week? we hear there are draft conclusions which talk about internal preparatory discussions, in other words, trade talks, so it sounds like, as you say, it is not doom and gloom and maybe there —— they are preparing for trade talks. they are preparing for trade talks. they are preparing for trade talks. they are preparing for trade talks with themselves. it's the equivalent of ifi themselves. it's the equivalent of if i had themselves. it's the equivalent of ifihada themselves. it's the equivalent of if i had a business meeting with someone if i had a business meeting with someone and i sat and spoke with my collea g u es someone and i sat and spoke with my colleagues and adjusted the papers
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and checked the paperclips were in order but did not meet them and talk to them. it is not the same as an honest trade talk with britain. instead, it's very introspective. they are making everything is ok. of course they want trade. there is still the same continuity and they wa nt still the same continuity and they want the same relationship that should continue so it is about december or the new year when we are looking at full—blown trade deals and talks. we are in october now. are we way behind schedule? the timing on this is incredibly tight, but is it still possible, in terms of the timescale and timespan ahead to do of the timescale and timespan ahead todoa of the timescale and timespan ahead to do a deal? absolutely. it is very much still possible but it requires will on both sides and for there to be the drive and determination from the british negotiators because michel barnier will want to take it down to the wire and the wisdom of the ee meet —— eu negotiations is to
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say that everything is not agreed. everything is nailed down they might wa nt to everything is nailed down they might want to play up other things and what the end state might be at the transition. and the trade terms, what will come down with that? we will see some signs of progress in the next few months and then it will get to the meat of the matter. thank you very much for being with us. the police in london and new york are investigating allegations of sexual assault by the hollywood movie mogul harvey weinstein. the british actress emma thompson has told the bbc sexual harassment is endemic in hollywood and the whole culture of the movie business needs to change. from new york, nick bryant reports. harvey weinstein emerged from his daughter's house in los angeles, the movie mogul still trying to direct the scene. come on, guys. i will take it with you. don't follow.
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i am being good. it is the first time he has spoken on camera since scandal engulfed him. are you doing ok? i am trying my best. but there was no apology to his alleged victims, no evident display of shame. he did talk about himself. i am not doing ok. lam trying. i got to get help, guys. you know, what, we all make mistakes, second chance, i hope. but second chances seem a long way off right now. despite an earlier written statement apologising for causing pain. because the storyline is being written by big—name movie stars like angelina jolie and gwyneth paltrow. and more than 20 women who claimed he harassed them and worse. the latest actress to make allegations is kate beckinsale, who claims he became abusive when she rebuffed his sexual advances. she claims her career suffered as a result. weinstein has denied three accusations of rape
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and any non—consensual sexual relations, but now the nypd has announced it's conducting a review and is looking to speak to an individual regarding an allegation of sexual assault against him from 200a. wasn't the weinstein investigation, wasn't that a slam—dunk? prosecutors in new york have been criticised for not pursuing a case against him two years ago, when the nypd mounted a sting operation against weinstein after an allegation of sexual assault. if we had a case we felt we could prosecute against him, we would have. when you say we, do you mean you made the decision? we made the decision as an office. in an interview with newsnight, emma thompson said the problem of sexual harassment goes beyond harvey weinstein. they don't surprise me at all, they are endemic to the system anyway. there are about a million missed opportunities to call this man out on his disgusting behaviour. i have always been loyal to you guys. this brief encounter spoke
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of his cosy relationship with some in the media. i have been a good guy. get some help, man. it is notjust the press chasing this story, the accusations are being investigated by police on both sides of the atlantic. let's return to the allegations of sexual harassment against the hollywood producer, harvey weinstein. we saw in that report emma thompson speaking about harvey weinstein — she was talking to emily maitlis on bbc newsnight and she said similar behaviour was widespread in the film industry. i didn't know about these things, but they don't surprise me and they are endemic to the system. what i find it extraordinary is that this man is at the top of a very particular iceberg, you know. i don't think you can describe him as a sex addict, he is a predator, but what he is the top of the ladder of is a system of
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harassment and belittling and bullying and interference, and what my mother would have referred to in the olden days as pestering. is he pestering you? this has been pa rt of is he pestering you? this has been part of the women's world since time immemorial, so what we need to start talking about is the crisis in masculinity, the crisis of extreme masculinity, the crisis of extreme masculinity, which is this sort of behaviour and the fact that it is not only ok but is also represented by the most powerful man in the world at the moment. we can hear from another actress, jane fonda, who said she had heard about some of the allegations involving harvey weinstein but had failed to speak out. i've found out about him about a year ago
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out. i've found out about him about a yearago and out. i've found out about him about a year ago and i wished i had spoken out. why didn't you? it didn't happen to me. i didn't want to expose him and i admit i should have been braver and from now on i will been braver and from now on i will be when i hear such stories. jane fonda there. and you can see more of the emma thompson interview on newsnight — that's at half past ten on bbc two or a quarter past eleven here on the news channel. and that full interview with jane fonda will air next mondayjust after midnight. a british woman who travelled to syria four years ago to act as a recruiter for so—called islamic state has been killed in a drone strike. sallyjones, who was originally from kent, became a high profile supporter for is and used social media to encourage western women tojoin them. our security correspondent frank gardner reports. iconic, threatening and british. the jihadist recruiter and convert, sally—anne jones from kent. she fled to syria in 2013 and joined so—called islamic state. from there, she broadcast
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a stream of hate—filled anti—western propaganda online. she was married to this man, junaid hussain, a computer hacker later killed in a drone strike. together, they plotted attacks on the west and gave instructions on bomb—making. this boy was identified by his grandparents in an is propaganda video as her son, jojo, who she took with her to syria. today, the uk government responded to reports of her death with this warning to thosejoining islamic state, also known as daesh. i can confirm that, if you are a british national in iraq or syria and if you have chosen to fight for daesh, an illegal organisation, that is preparing and inspiring terror attacks on our streets, then you've made yourself a legitimate target, and you run the risk every hour of every day of being on the wrong end of an raf or united states missile. it's believed the drone strike
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was directed from this air base in the united states. pilots are said to have remotely targeted her using an unmanned drone, similar to this one, killing her with a missile injune, close to syria's border with iraq. it's not known if her son was with her at the time. an expert on the jihadist movement had this damning verdict on what sally—annejones's legacy will be. i remember speaking to syrian women who had joined isis themselves, and they would ask me about women like her, and they would say, what does she have to do with us? this is our civil war. i think her legacy is one of a bewildering clash of lost souls in europe attaching themselves to a civil war in a distant movement that has nothing to do with them. sally—anne jones was on the interpol wanted list, which gave her aliases and alleged crimes. she was certainly useful to is for publicity purposes but, now that the group is on the verge of military defeat in iraq and syria, her death
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will have little impact on its already shrinking fortunes. the former punk rock singer from kent is now likely to be one more of the hundreds of western recruits to is to perish in the collapse of its caliphate. frank gardner, bbc news. i'll be talking about this story to dr katherine brown — an expert in countering radicalisation, gender and religion — from the university of birmingham. the headlines on bbc news: the two sides are still failing to agree on the eu divorce bill. police in new york and london are investigating after a series of sexual assault allegations against hollywood producer harvey weinstein, who denies the accusations. sally annjones, the who denies the accusations. sally ann jones, the british who denies the accusations. sally annjones, the british women recruited by so—called islamic state in syria is reported to have been killed in a drone strike. time for
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all of the latest sports news. let's go to the bbc sports centre and join mike bushell. we will start with a football, and scottish football because after five years the football association say it is to prepare forfor a football association say it is to prepare for for a change of direction. gordon strachan‘s tenure is over , the sfa, won't renew his contract, which ,was due to run out next month anyway. a mutual parting of the ways was agreed, at a board meeting today four days after scotland failed to clinch a play—off spot, for russia next summer. the news from hamden park is that scotla nd the news from hamden park is that scotland are looking for a new football manager. the scottish fa board met here at the national stadium this morning to discuss
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gordon strachan‘s future, and not long after two p:m., the statement was released when it was confirmed that gordon strachan‘s tenure as national manager was coming to an end with immediate effect. gordon strachan himself says in the statement that it was a real privilege being the national manager and that his biggest regret was not giving the fans the tournament, the major tournament finals, that he feels they deserve. stewart regan, the fa chief executive, is also quoted, and he says it is time for fresh impetus and he felt a change was needed and a new direction needed to prepare for the euro twe nty20 needed to prepare for the euro twenty20 campaign and the forthcoming uefa nations league. this comes after gordon strachan presided over to failed qualifying campaigns, the first to get to euro 2016, and the latest failure with the world cup in russia coming up next year. after chelsea's success in the woman's champions league last night manchester city are hoping for similar success.
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they are looking comfortable against austrian side st polten. 2—0 up on the night, 5—0 up on aggregate. glasgow city are up against and look like they are heading out, they currently drawing 1—1 against kazakhstan side, kazygurt. the european rugby union season has started tonight gloucester are in france against pau and the english team have condeded the first two tries after 2a minutes. they are 12—0 behind. gloucester reached the final of this challenge cup, last season. but were beaten by stade francais in edinburgh. british swimming has apologised to some of its paralympic athletes, after it was found that a former head coach "created a climate of fear". an independent investigation into complaints of bullying, from 13 para—swimmers, found that an unnamed member, of staff — understood
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to be rob greenwood — had been "communicating with athletes, in an abusive manner, as well as using, derogatory terms, to describe athletes". greenwood, who led the team to 47 medals at the rio paralympics last year, left hisjob before the inquiry started. contacted by the bbc, he has declined to comment. meanwhile, carson russell — father of hannah russell — who won two golds in the pool in rio, was one of the swimmers who received today's apology. you have to be careful and just not highlight problems all the time. the most important thing today is to find solutions. there have been issues but the most important thing moving forward is that there are solutions and recommendations, but the caveat is that those have to be delivered. ben stokes mangement company have relased a statement, saying the the england all—rounder, will, "make public, his full explanation and evidence when the time is right".
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the england all rounder was arrested, under suspicion of causing actual bodily harm, after a brawl oustide a nightclub in bristol last month. no charges have been brought by avon and somerset police, but whilst the investigation is ongoing, he will play no part in the ashes tour that starts later this month. that's all the sport for now. i'll have more for you in sportsday at half past ten. the government has proposed an energy cap which would impose an absolute limit on how much households pay for gas and electricity. it is publishing a draft bill which would give the regulator, ofgem, the power to impose the cap on standard variable tariffs, which are usually the most expensive rates. let's talk to stephen murray, energy analyst at money supermarket who joins us from our studio in derby. is this good news for the consumers then? anything that saves consumers money is good news, and certainly, without a doubt, customers in this country are paying way too much for their energy bills but there are concerns about the energy price cap
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and concerns that the measure will disengage more consumers, and that was one of the biggest findings from the competition and markets report that came out, that there was a lack of engagement in the market and real fears that this could bring savings, by no way the maximum savings, that the customers could make in the market. when you say it will disengage, what do you mean by that? at the moment the plans are for a cap and we don't know how much the suggestions are that this might bring down bills by about £100 for those on standard tariffs which is about two thirds of the uk population. this is only a third of the savings that consumers can make in the market by switching. there are over 50 supplies they could switch to and as we've seen in the prepayment market, for those on prepayment market, for those on prepayment meters, a cap was introduced at the beginning of the year and we have already seen over 10% reductions in customers entering the switching market to maximise
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savings. the concerns are that people will feel that prices are being looked after, that they are on the right tariff when these prices will still be amongst the highest in the market and there are more savings to be made. so your message is not to wait for the government to do this, don't wait for a government inspired cap, make savings yourself by switching supplier? absolutely. that is often the problem. whether it's price rises, the sort of announcements, customers get dragged into a rhetoric and aren't really understanding what is happening when what can be the case is that you switch to date and make the savings. the price cap, they say it might come in at the end of the winter but it's unlikely it will take effect, so consumers will lose out again by listening to this rhetoric. what we can do is get the savings today. we saw the big six energy companies put their prices up by an average of £91; per year. energy is going up, no dispute about that. the cost of
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generating electricity is more and the cost of getting renewed —— renewable energy online is increasing. energy prices will go up and we could have the bizarre situation that prices will go up by £100 before the cap comes in and we end up with the status quo 12 months down the line and consumers lose out again by weighting the something to happen. they need to get into the market, have a look around and switch to a deal, whether with their existing supplier or a new supplier, and there is so much choice out there. very briefly, what will the cap due to the energy companies? will it cost them a lot of money? without doubt. the details of the cap not known but those suppliers, predominantly the big six who have significant numbers on variable ta riffs significant numbers on variable tariffs will see their margins eroded and we will see what will happen as the bill goes through the motions and through parliament as to how it will manifest itself. but they will have to become even more competitive in the market. good to
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talk to you. thank you for being with us. the palestinian militant group hamas has reached a deal with its rival fatah to help end a decade long rift. it's thought the deal will address how gaza is administered. hamas took control of gaza when fatah security forces were ousted ten years ago, now control could be handed back to the fatah—backed government based in the west bank. i'm joined by the arab writer and author, abdel bari atwan. thank you for being with us. what is your reading of this? it sounds like an historic agreement between these old rivals. it is an historic agreement. it is actually making meli palestinians smile because it was a very depressed situation —— many palestinians. hamas were gambling on the peace progress that
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was not working and there is no peace process and no one state solution. both of them need each other, with both of them trying to buy time. there are no other options. hamas is facing a crisis and they cannot meet the demands of people. akbas, his population is going down and down, so what is the morning after? what are we going to do? the terms of this reconciliation is extremely difficult for both of them to abide by. for example, forming a national unity government, calling for a parliamentarian election, what is the action of the israelis? what is the reaction there? let's talk about the reaction from israel in particular. are they worried that the two rivals are
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coming together and, theoretically will be stronger in the rabusic —— representation of the palestinian cause? i am not worried about the abbas position, it is about hamas. are they more pragmatic than at any time? is the new leadership of hamas going to change their attitudes towards the israelis, excepting an independent state in gaza and renouncing terrorism. the resistance weapon as they call it. are they going to also recognise the other terms of the coalition with abbas. this is the problem. whether this is a tactical move from hamas or a genuine strategic move, this is the most important question. the americans said they would not accept any government and hamas need three
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conditions and they need to announce terrorism and announce israel as independent. we'll hamas do any of this? they are more pragmatic. they looked at the charter and they accepted the independent state on the west bank and gaza and they are talking about renouncing terrorism. they manage to control the radical faction on the gaza strip to not launch any missiles against the israelis. and they have a good track record until now. whether they will continue with this in the future, i believe they will, because the egyptian government is a guarantee which is looking at the agreement. it is an insurance policy that hamas will abide with it. they gave a lot of conditions to the government and
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they cut the relationship with the muslim brotherhood ‘s and are cooperating on security wise, in sinai against islamic state and the other jihad sinai against islamic state and the otherjihad eat organisations. —— jihadist organisations. there are good signs, but how long, we don't know. we had the same show last time, it didn't last. will this one last? maybe there is a chance. always great to get your analysis. thank you for being with us in the studio this evening. the year's biggest literary prize, the man booker award, will be revealed next week. between now and then we'll be previewing the six shortlisted titles here on bbc news. our look at the would—be prize winners continues today, with mohsin hamid discussing his latest novel exit west — whose central characters are a young couple living in the midst of a civil war. ina
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in a city swollen by refugees but still mostly at peace, or at least not yet openly at war, a young man met a young woman in a classroom and did not speak to her. for many days. his name was said and her name was nadia. i started with the idea of this fear of migration. the fear of people who don't want migrants to come to their country and the fear of people who are suddenly pushed into migrate. when we migrate, we murderfrom our lives into migrate. when we migrate, we murder from our lives those we leave behind. for me in a way the novel is a love story. it's a story about a first love. and about two characters who are changing. and how it's possible to change and even drift apart without that being an occasion for violence or anger or deep conflict. all over the world people
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we re conflict. all over the world people were slipping away from where they had been. from once fertile plains, cracking with dryness, from seaside villages gasping beneath tidal surges, from overvoweded cities and murderous battlefields and slipping away from other people, people they had in some cases loved as nadia was slipping away from said and said from nadia. in the normal doors that allow you to go anywhere from one city to another and they feel magical or like science fiction but actually technology today is making it so distance collapses and the doors for me represent the feeling of modern technology, where distance is disappearing. human beings have a lwa ys is disappearing. human beings have always migrated. human beings didn't evolve in britain or pakistan or north america. we have we are all
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migrants through time. and just to say you can see our special live awards programme next tuesday. now the weather with helen willetts. good evening. although it's been a dry day for most of us the cloud is increasing, this is how it looked an hour or two ago in highlands of scotland. that's because we have some weather fronts approaching. this looks as if it will bring persistent rain and especially to the north—west of the uk. rather damp night, windy across scotland and northern ireland. we will see that drizzly rain rolling on to the hills of north—west england and wales. as we approach friday we have a warning out for the cumbrian fells in particular where it's been wet of late. milder tonight for most but still dry and bright across southern and eastern areas but on the whole more cloud on friday. we will see the cloud clearing and return
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returning to the north of scotland and into northern ireland as well but it looks wet again for cumbria and north wales. that weather front wea ke ns into and north wales. that weather front weakens into saturday morning, just a lot of cloud around and rain pushes back northwards again. to the south of it as the sun comes out it's quite warm. hello, this is bbc news. the headlines. the eu's chief negotiator has warned of deadlock after the latest round of brexit talks. the two sides have yet to agree on how much britain should pay on leaving. translation: on that question we've reached deadlock, which is very worrying. while there is still work to be done, much work to be done, we've come a long way. it's important to recognise the significant progress we've made since june. police in london and new york are investigating after a string of allegations of sexual harassment by hollywood mogul harvey weinstein. he has asked the public
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to give him a second chance. sally annejones, the british woman who recruited for so—called islamic state in syria, has reportedly been killed in a drone strike with her 12—year—old son. 12 million homes will have their energy bills capped by the government from next year. labour says the cap on fixed tariffs should start now. the latest on brexit now and the eu's chief negotiator in the brexit talks, michel barnier, says the two sides have made no significant progress in the latest round of discussions. he said he would not recommend to eu leaders at a summit next week that negotiations move on to discussions about future trade links, though he did suggest there could be a breakthrough in the next two months. translation: this week, however, the
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uk repeated it was still not ready to spell out these commitments. there have therefore been no negotiations on this subject we confined ourselves to technical discussions, useful discussions but technical discussions. so on this question we've reached a state of deadlock which is very disturbing. that was michel barnier‘s view. so for the british side, the brexit secretary, david davis, said there had been progress on citizens' rights but said the eu also needs to talk about a future trade relationship. ouraim is to our aim is to provide as much certainty as possible to business, citizens and the european union. on this we are making real and tangible progress. but i make no secret of the fact that to provide certainty we must talk about the future. the prime minister's speech set out the scale of our ambition. and also laid
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out the case for a simple clear and timely period of implementation on current terms. as i said when i stood here last time, i hope leaders of the 27 will provide michel with the means to explore ways forward with us on that. for more on that let's talk to the irish times europe editor patrick smyth who joins via webcam from brussels. thank you so much for being with us. talk to us about the irish element of these brexit talks, we know it's crucial for both of these brexit talks, we know it's crucialfor both sides of these brexit talks, we know it's crucial for both sides in the talks, in particular the border, will it be a hard or soft border? how do you see the irish question in these talks? well, the irish government is very pleased that the irish issue is pa rt very pleased that the irish issue is part of the so—called divorce talks. in other words, the priority issues
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for the negotiations. the border is probably, the absence of a hard border is probably the most sensitive issue. but there are a number of related issues as well, like preserving all the aspects of what's called the good friday agreement. there are now something like 150 forms of north—south co—operation either in institutions or bodies or programmes and these for the most part are underpinned by eu legislation and the concern is that this fruit of the good friday agreement should be preserved and there are talks about what has to be done on those issues. the other big issueis done on those issues. the other big issue is the common travel area which allows basically people like myself, born and raised of irish stock in britain, to be a resident there, just as it would allow others, british people to be
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residents, full residents in ireland. that's being preserved and thatis ireland. that's being preserved and that is already agreed. but in terms of the brexit talks and we have heard in general they're not perhaps going as smoothly as could have been expected at this stage, to what extent expected at this stage, to what exte nt d o expected at this stage, to what extent do you think the whole irish border question is a sticking point? obviously, there is both sides want agreement on this, but they don't seem agreement on this, but they don't seem to have been able to come up with one yet. yeah, it's very difficult. part of the border issue is something that is what we call phase two discussions because it's to do with trade or to do with with inspections on a border. it's to do with the future relationship. but there is an element of the border thing which in principle the irish government certainly wants to see resolved in the phase one talks. at this stage, although the british have spoken repeatedly about their desire to see a frictionless border,
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we don't have — we haven't seen proposals about how they will do that. it is very difficult, if britain leaves the customs union and the single market, it will be necessary to put up a border of sorts between the south and the north and indeed between ireland and britain. this is very serious for irish trade. something like five billion euros every year of irish agricultural produce flows across the irish sea to britain and there is another 700 million flows across the border to northern ireland. if there are tariffs there, if there are inspections affecting the flow of goods, it's going to cause business an awful lot of money. of course, we hear this potential no deal idea and the government have talked about there being the prospect conceivably of no deal. what would be the view of that on
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your side of the irish sea? well, i think it would be a nightmare prospect because what would happen is that you would revert to, the uk would revert to wto trade rules, which are, particularly in agriculture, which matters an awful lot to the irish, huge and the irish exports to britain would be frozen. but there is also an important political dimension to the whole thing and that is preserving the peace process, one of whose most substantial gains is the fact that we don't actually have a border that is visible and that crossing the border in ireland is something you do without noticing and a return of ha rd do without noticing and a return of hard border is certainly going to undermine confidence in the peace process and divide the ireland — the island in a way that is deeply damaging. all right, thank you for being with us. interesting to talk to you, good of you to be with us,
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patrick smyth the irish times europe editor based in brussels. a british woman who travelled to syria four years ago to act as a recruiter for so—called islamic state has been killed in a drone strike. sallyjones, who was originally from kent, became a high profile supporter for is and used social media to encourage western women tojoin them. joining me now is dr katherine brown, an expert in countering radicalisation, gender and religion. as we say, unconfirmed reports that she has been killed in this drone strike. to what extent do you think she was important for islamic state? i think she was quite important in terms of the propaganda that she was able to garner. firstly, she was a high profile figure because she was a convert, she was also a lot older than the majority of women who have travelled out there. she was also
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able to say how she rejected a western lifestyle and took on this new lifestyle and new promises that so—called islamic state were offering her. she seemed to be a poster child for islamic state. then we have reports that she was somehow a mastermind behind a battalion of women that were going to carry out attacks across the rest of the world on behalf of so—called islamic state. i think we have to be slightly sceptical of that, given her background and her lack of military training prior tojoining islamic state. but certainly the fear that she was able to recruit women of that extent and she was able to mobilise women to that extent certainly gave her, more to the point the islamic state group, an edge in the propaganda wars in trying to create a myth of success that they were more than just a terrorist group, that they were able to recruit ordinary people as such. yeah, just more generally, how successful or is being now in terms
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of recruiting women, young people from this country to go out there? we know they've suffered militarily a lot of setbacks on the battlefield, do you think they are still able to recruit? well, part of the ideology of the group is that they were able to provide a safe haven for people who believed according to their beliefs and as a group that was providing that safe haven they could therefore claim certain rights and privileges that met with a profetic tradition. clearly that's not happening now so they're losing credibility and legitimacy. nevertheless they're respining that to some extent saying this loss of territory was inevitable and they will go on and fight differently. to that extent they are still able to recruit but rather than focussing and encouraging people to join them in territories overseas, they're arguing and trying to encourage people to take up the fight closer to home. to that extent they're losing out because they're missing
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that kind of core part of who they we re that kind of core part of who they were before, the idea they were beginnings of a state. by focussing on fighting elsewhere i think they're going to fragment, they will lose that coe herence and as a result they will dissipate. that doesn't mean the overall threat isn't there or we won't face attacks in the future. briefly, even though it's a big question, how do the british authorities stop radicalisation, how do they stop future sallyjones going off to fight for somebody like islamic state ? fight for somebody like islamic state? well, one of the issues is whether or not we focus on trying to deradicalise individuals. the problem with that is there is no single profile, there is no signature, there is no single marker that defines someone as more vulnerable or more at risk than anyone else. so actually one of the best ways we can do that is preventing radicalisation generally is to look at society as a whole and to look at what it is that makes
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society less resilient to these ideas and in order to do that we need to think about the ways in which young people are educated, the way they're given skills to challenge propaganda when they see it, that means challenging you, challenging me, it means having difficult conversations with teachers about things. those are some of the key ways we can do that, instigating critical thinking. the other thing to bear in mind is that radicalisation is notjust about belief, it is about belonging and behaviours. so rather than always asking why does someone join, perhaps we also need to ask mundane questions about how theyjoin. so that sense of belonging, being part ofa group, that sense of belonging, being part of a group, finding friends who recruit them into this, and having that sense of belonging. i think that sense of belonging. i think thatis that sense of belonging. i think that is something that we really need to address more coherently than we currently are. good to talk to you, thank you.

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