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tv   Victoria Derbyshire  BBC News  October 27, 2017 9:00am-11:01am BST

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hello. it's friday, it's 9 o'clock, i'm chloe tilley, welcome to the programme a cyber attack that crippled parts of the nhs back in may could have been avoided if certain security measures had been in place. a report into the incident that froze computers, causing operations to be cancelled, says that the health service was just not prepared for an attack. in some cases, organisations had to resort to telephone, paper and pen, apps such as whatsapp in terms of communicating with others. we'll be speaking to the man who was in charge of overseeing cyber security for the nhs in england at half past ten. young people who need mental health care are waiting too long for their treatment — the commission that monitors care provision says that treatment varies considerably according to where people live and that some children are waiting up to 18 months for treatment. the young people that i visit when i work as an independent mental health
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advocate on an adolescent board, and families say to me if they have their help earlier they would not have been in that position, they would not be in hospital. we will hear from would not be in hospital. we will hearfrom some would not be in hospital. we will hear from some people about their experiences of accessing mental health services at 9.15. the wait isn't quite over — as the files about the assassination of american president john f kennedy are released. donald trump delays some of the more sensitive case notes after requests from the cia and fbi. hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning. have you had any experiences, good or bad, trying to access mental health care for children and young people? we are talking about that and also later in the show we are going to talk about the rules around sharing details of crimes people committed when they were children and how they should or should not be shared around with prospective employers. do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning — use the hashtag #victorialive
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and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. our top story today... an investigation into the cyberattack that brought down parts of the nhs in may has found that it could have been prevented if basic security measures had been in place. the national audit office says that the health service wasn't prepared for the attack, which saw criminals freeze computers and demand a ransom. it calls on the nhs to develop a clear plan to deal with future threats. here's our technology correspondent rory cellan—jones. it was an attack which froze computers around the world. but the nhs was among the organisations worst affected and the national audit office says it was ill—prepared. the report details the impact of the worst ever cyber attack on the health service. 81 health trusts across england were affected, a third of the total. it's thought over 19,000 appointments ended up being cancelled, including 139 potential cancer referrals. what planning there had been to deal with a cyberattackjust hadn't
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filtered down to the hospitals. some work had been done on a national cyber response plan in the nhs, but that hadn't been well communicated to all of those local bodies and in some cases organisations had to resort to telephone, and paper and pen, and apps such as whatsapp in terms of communicating with others. those hospitals which saw computers infected by the malicious software had ignored instructions to install a security patch which would have protected them. now the nhs says lessons have been learned. we have been getting our act together. we are getting our act together. we're putting funding in. we're putting education in. we're rolling out the programmes that were in place before this attack and we will continue to improve over time. there are more serious cyber attackers waiting to strike. hospital trusts are warning the government they may need to spend more money to strengthen their defences. rory cellan—jones, bbc news.
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our technology correspondent rory cellan—jones is with me. just explain what measures are in place now to make sure this doesn't happen again. well, across the nhs people have been told to get their act together and the key thing here is to respond when nhs digital, the central organisation, sends out warning is instructing people to upgrade their computers with a security patch. the key thing that went wrong here is that there was a warning in march and april, fix your windows computer systems with this patch and you should be safe. if the hospitals had done that, and obviously lots of them did, they would have been protected. but they didn't. the other thing is having a plan that filters down from the top to every local hospital. that is what didn't happen here. there was some kind of plan, it was never rehearsed. when disaster struck, people didn't know what to do. they
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didn't know who to call, for instance. is it clear why the hospitals didn't do the upgrade they we re hospitals didn't do the upgrade they were warned about a few months before? this is a problem in lots of organisations, frankly. there are security patches coming out almost ona security patches coming out almost on a daily basis. the threats are there, new threats every day. organisations find it difficult to have the resources in place, the people in place, and the agency to do that. but i think this has been a wake—up call to do that. but i think this has been a wa ke—up call to lots do that. but i think this has been a wake—up call to lots of them. do that. but i think this has been a wake—up call to lots of themli do that. but i think this has been a wake-up call to lots of them. i was reading that this could have been far worse, if it had happened in the middle of winter? it was a friday in may, not a particularly busy time. if it happened on a monday in winter, the knock—on effect would have been much worse. but they have been warned by the national audit office that there are worse threats out there. this was a particularly unsophisticated attack. a much more sophisticated attack could cause a lot more damage. they have got to shore up their defences. thank you for coming by. vicki young is in the bbc newsroom with a summary
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of the rest of the days news. a government ordered review of mental health services for children in england has found that thousands of children are not getting the support they need, when they need it. inspectors from the care quality commission concluded services were too fragmented and hard to access. our health correspondent rob sissons reports. alice battled anorexia throughout her teenage years. she waited around six months for a mental health assessment and to get specialist treatment, she was told she'd have to travel 100 miles from her home. she's concerned some young people are still waiting too long. we're talking about young people with mental health problems that are so distressed with their own minds that they don't even know how they're going to get through the day and to then turn around to them and ask them to wait, you know, six, 12, 18 months for the help that they desperately need is incredibly distressing. the care quality commission report suggests 39% of specialist community
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services need improving. it warns services are too fragmented and a more joined—up approach is needed. the report highlights evidence that one in four children who needed care were unable to access it. the commission warns children's lives may be being put at risk because of the failings. suicide is one of the leading causes of death in young people. what we do know is that waiting a long time, or not being able to access a service when you need it, inherently increases the risk. alice welcomes the government's promised to invest an extra £1.11 billion into children's mental health services over the next four years. the care quality commission has revealed the scale of the problems. its next piece of work will be to come up with some detailed solutions. rob sissons, bbc news. and in the next few minutes we'll be speaking to the families of children who have had to face long delays for mental health treatment. spain's political crisis is likely to deepen today if — as expected —
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the senate backs a plan by the central government to remove some powers from the autonomous region of catalonia and to take over the running of its institutions. madrid wants to reassert control by triggering an article in the spanish constitution that's designed to prevent regions from breaking away. but it's thought the catalan parliament may respond by declaring independence. andrew plant reports 27 days after this crisis started, each day, crowds have gathered, speeches have been made, and each day, an agreement has seemed further away. on one side, catalonia considering declaring independence and on the other, spain considering taking back control. on thursday, catalonian president carles puigdemont could have declared independence, which would have angered the spanish government. or he could've backtracked, which would have angered his own supporters.
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instead, he did neither. translation: my responsibility as president of catalonia was to exhaust all the options available. what we need is de—escalation and dialogue. but once again, i have not had a satisfactory reply from the spanish government. spain's national government could now vote to take away his control. translation: launching article 155 of the constitution, which will affect catalonia's autonomy, is the last resort. it's the only way to restore legality, tolerance, democracy, and economic stability to catalonia. this is all the fault of the catalan president. today, the spanish senate will vote on unravelling catalonia's powers — something which has never been done before. that much is clear, but the future is not. the question — what will happen here if spain strips away catalonia's regional powers? the answer — no—one really knows
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the repercussions might be. andrew plant, bbc news. australia's high court has ruled that the country's deputy prime minister, barnabyjoyce, should be disqualified from office because he held dual citizenship when elected. the verdict has cost the australian government its one—seat majority in parliament and a by—election will now be held in december. four other politicians have also been ruled ineligible to remain in parliament. french scientists say patients who have heart surgery in the afternoon are less likely to suffer complications than those who are treated in the morning. their research — published in the lancet medicaljournal — argues that the body clock makes the heart stronger during the afternoon than in the morning, and it's more able to withstand the rigours of surgery. president trump has declassified almost 3,000 documents related to the assassination ofjohn f kennedy in 1963. but he decided to to keep hundreds of other files secret, at least for the time being, at the request of security agencies.
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mr trump had earlier indicated that all of the files would be made public, as peter bowes reports. page after page, previously top—secret documents, many of them handwritten, from the investigation into the assassination ofjohn f kennedy. it was november 22, 1963 when lee harvey oswald shot the president as he was travelling in an open top limousine in dallas. archive: it appears as though something has happened in the motorcade route. the official investigation concluded that oswald had acted alone. archive: president kennedy has been assassinated. it is official now — the president is dead. but more than 50 years later, many americans find it difficult to believe the official version of what happened. conspiracy theorists think information could have been withheld to avoid embarrassing government agencies. historians, journalists,
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and legal scholars are now poring over the almost 3,000 documents just released, searching for clues and discrepancies in the official story on new facts to back it up. several hundred documents are being held back for further scrutiny. there will be a six—month review period after the cia and fbi expressed concern about their content. it's a move that will only fuel the conspiracy theories. a un—backed report has concluded the syrian government was behind a chemical attack on the town of khan sheikhoun earlier this year which killed about 90 people. investigators said the nerve agent sarin was dropped from an aircraft. syria has previously denied responsibility. in thailand, the new king has collected fragments of bone from the cremated remains of his father, the late king bhumibol. the ritual is part of the 5—day funeral that's brought the nation to a standstill. the relics will be placed in golden
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urns to be transported in procession to the grand palace later today. at least four people have been killed and dozens injured in violence surrounding kenya's second presidential election in three months. less than half of eligible voters cast a ballot yesterday, far lower than the 80% who voted in the original election in august when president kenyatta was declared the winner. opposition leaders had called for a boycott of the poll amid claims of voting irregularities. the voice of pope francis has been heard in the heavens as he made a video call from the vatican to astronauts aboard the international space station. his 20 minute call to the crew included questions about love, life in zero gravity, and what makes them happy whilst they're in orbit. we can see the peace and serenity of our planet as it goes around
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at ten kilometres a second, and there's no borders, there is no conflict. it's just peaceful and you see the thinness of the atmosphere and it makes you realise how fragile our existence here is. that is a summary of the latest bbc news. there will be more at 9.30. do get in touch with us throughout the morning — use the hashtag #victorialive and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. let's get some sport withjohn watson. in the next hour, the rugby league world cup will get under way in melbourne. england have the daunting task of facing reigning champions australia in that opening game. some are they confident?” some are they confident? i think so, it could not have been a tough start, you have to factor that into
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the equation. they are getting the tournament under way in about an hour's time. they are regarded as one of the favourites for the trophy but they have had a terrible run against australia. they have not beaten them since the opening match of the 1995 world cup. it has been a long winless run. but they have some great players. sam burgess we know. the last world cup he played in was for england in the ill fated rugby union version two years ago. he plays his club rugby league back in australia now, in the nrl. one of seven or eight players who play their club rugby in australia, so they should know what to expect. we have all dreamt about winning the world cup, certainly. the players in the squad, you need the ambition, or you need the want to be able to go and win the world cup. you're not just going to sit around and not think about it and then it then happen. you have to visualise it. to remain focused, you then have to
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bring yourself back into day that we face and be present and understand what it takes to win a competition, what it takes to win a competition, what it takes to win games. that is where our mindset is at the moment. 14 where our mindset is at the moment. 1a teams involved, including scotla nd 1a teams involved, including scotland and wales, so tell us how it will unfold. 14 teams split across four groups. three host countries, wales, scotland and ireland also feature, representing the home nations. wales are up against co—hosts papua new guinea tomorrow. this is them arriving a pretty awesome reception, i think it's fair to say. it will be pretty hot there and it is the national sport in papua new guinea, so they can expect a hostile reception, i think it's fair to say. ireland also ta ke think it's fair to say. ireland also take them on in their first match think it's fair to say. ireland also take them on in theirfirst match in the coming days as well. scotland have a tough test against new zealand. but they have a good chance of reaching the knockout stages.
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they managed to draw against new zealand in a previous tournament. it is worth watching tonga, a really exciting team who could go all the way. and women's tournament runs alongside the men's, starting next month. england are the sole representatives from europe. there will be a final in brisbane in december. live coverage of england's match on bbc two this morning. if a young person experiences mental health problems the nhs is supposed to provide services to help them, with a belief that early intervention is key. but a new study from the care quality commission has found some children in england are facing long delay for treatment — sometimes as long as 18 months. the department of health says it's investing £1.4 billion into improving children's mental health care but staff for the nhs‘s child and adolescent mental health services have told this programme services
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are still extremely underfunded. joining us now is cathal morrow — his eight—year—old had to wait 18 months before he received treatment. helena miles used mental health services for most of her teens. louise theodosiou is from the royal college of psychiatrists. and labour mp for liverpool wavertree luciana berger, who is president of the party's campaign for mental health. thank you all forjoining us. can i ask first — 18 months for your son to access mental health treatment. why the delay? about three years ago, he had a breakdown, and the school were unbelievable. we pushed foran school were unbelievable. we pushed for an assessment, got it, but it didn't really say anything. we were pushing and pushing, and they drip fed us a little bit, but nothing
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much in terms of services. then a year ago, he was in hospitalfor a week, then they moved him up to a level three, and from there, he has been having weekly therapy. i have been having weekly therapy. i have been having weekly therapy. i have been having services, counselling and stuff, and it has been excellent. but it was an insane delay. helene, you have access mental health services throughout your teens — did you struggle to get access to those services? it took awhile for to take my mental health, not seriously, but to take it into serious consideration. it took until i was sectioned for me to get a diagnosis of post—traumatic stress disorder. what impact does that have on you, and on your son of those delays? i didn't have a teenage period. it took a long time for me to learn about myself and my mental
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health, and i kind of feel like i am i'iow health, and i kind of feel like i am now catching up on being a teenager and being at university, getting to know myself better. when i was a teenager, i felt like an empty shell, not a real human being. for my son, the delay in mental health... if you break your leg, it gets fixed, but mental health is something that needs work immediately, and the delays have meant that he has been taken out of school and is being home—schooled. it has a massive knock—on effect. school and is being home—schooled. it has a massive knock—on effectlj wa nt to it has a massive knock—on effectlj want to bring in louise. to give us a perspective from the inside, if you would, louise, why is there this delay? people watching would say that a young boy needing help, 18 months of his life is a long time to wait. it is, and it is important that we are looking at this issue today. one of the things we have
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heard is that what happens is that you cannot fix things quickly, and we know that in order for children's needs to be met, work has to start early. one of the things we all need to do is to build up people's resilience, the same way we are all working on our physical health every day. we know that less than 1% of the investment in health care has beenin the investment in health care has been in child and adolescent mental health services for a long time, and although more money is coming now, it is coming after a long period of underinvestment, which means that not only our services small, but there is not a workforce to recruit from, so we need more people to be working in young people's mental health services and more people in the services around them, such as youth services, education and social care. we also need people to be able to recognise when children really are struggling, and once again, that is about training and awareness. it is about training and awareness. it is fantastic that because more people are aware of children's mental health needs, there is a
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drive out there and people are stepping forward, and we have seen in the past three years referrals to child and adolescent mental health services going up by almost 50%. so why is it that people aren't attracted to working in the services, or are leaving? that's a really important question. i can say that i love working in the service, andi that i love working in the service, and i can say that when services are working well, they are amazing places to work. we need to recognise that the work can be very difficult, particularly with the underfunding, and people can feel that they are not offering a good service because there's not enough people around. it's fantastic that there is increasing awareness, and we know that we need people to be valued, to have good supervision and clear leadership, and there are a lot of new innovations coming in, like future in mind, and other documents that have come out in the past two
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yea rs that have come out in the past two years which make it clear what we need to do for people, and to provide the training that is needed, and to make our workforce feel valued. programmes like this, people are realising how important the work we do is come and that makes people feel valued and that they are being heard. luciano, the government has committed £1.4 billion to children's and adolescent health services, so things are moving in the right direction quick smack the money has been announced, but in terms of it reaching the front line, the row many examples, including here in liverpool, where we have seen cuts to our young people's mental health services. —— things are moving in the right direction? we have seen waiting times of six monthsjust the right direction? we have seen waiting times of six months just to get an assessment. that doesn't help support them with their mental health needs. it is notjust happening in liverpool but right
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across the country. with the budget coming up, we have an opportunity to say to the chancellor that we need to have the money they promised to mental health ring fenced to make sure it reaches the front line, because there are many examples of it not happening. that is why this report, along with many others over the past two years, really shine a light on the fact that children's mental health services are the cinderella of the cinderella services of the nhs. i can see you shaking your head. what is going through your mind listening to this? i used to volunteer at the centre for children and families, and we had so many stories of cuts and underfunding, the fact that adult services get more funding than children's, but services get more funding than child ren‘s, but many services get more funding than children's, but many users of youth services go one to use adult services. honestly, this topic is so
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important to me, and it has shaped my life. i just want important to me, and it has shaped my life. ijust want it important to me, and it has shaped my life. i just want it to important to me, and it has shaped my life. ijust want it to be ok, which is really hard to do. talking about it is really useful, but there's just no funding. about it is really useful, but there'sjust no funding. at the service my son there'sjust no funding. at the service itiy sofi goes there'sjust no funding. at the service my son goes to, people are leaving in droves. staff? yes, and really good people. if you care about yourjob, really good people. if you care about your job, and really good people. if you care about yourjob, and half of it is saying no to a kid who really needs help, it is theirjob to do that, and how does that make you feel as a caring professional? massively demoralised. and people are leaving. they have had pay cuts. my son's therapist, who is unbelievable, he is one of two therapists for the whole nhs trust, which is former london boroughs. we were talking
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before we came on air and you were both saying that once you do access those services, they are fantastic. unbelievable. my son has an amazing social worker. my son is being helped by the home tuition service, which is great. they are all amazing people, and they are really dedicated, and they are fighting against cuts. they have to say no because there is in the money to say yes. without the nhs staff and others, i wouldn't even be sitting here today, to be honest, but there are so many young here today, to be honest, but there are so many young people who aren't sitting here, especially lgbt and kids from poorer backgrounds. it's so kids from poorer backgrounds. it's so much harder for them. but for the ones who do get to access it, it is often good stories. louise, you raised before the increase in the number of referrals that your services are getting for children and adolescent mental health — is this, in part, a good thing? you
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have had prince harry talking about mental health, the stigma seems to be being removed within society, but therefore, there is a consequence that your services are having to take. absolutely, and in part, i welcome the increase in referrals because we know that mental health problems, like physical health problems, like physical health problems, need to be treated. there isn't anything to be ashamed of. we know that one in four young women will experience depression. we need to be getting things right. i agree with the leonard that poor people and people from minority groups tend to have greater needs, and we need to have greater needs, and we need to make sure that services are accessible to everyone. —— i agree with the leonard. is it potluck, a postcode lottery, that determines what services you can get in your area? that has been the case for a
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long time, and this report exposes that, where there is real variance in the level and quality of services across the country. some are good, some outstanding, but it is not right that 20% of inpatient services require improvement, and 30% of services in the community need improving. it is part of this wider ambition to ensure that the close that gap and achieve that real equality for mental health that we have for physical health. we are on a have for physical health. we are on ney, have for physical health. we are on a journey, but ultimately, to make the greatest difference we need to make sure that locally all of our services prioritise mental health. that is not happening in liverpool, but not just that is not happening in liverpool, but notjust here, across the country. our local commissioning groups are not held to account to ring fence that monday, which means it is spent on other things. the young people you have heard from, and the parent you have heard from today, this is about people's futures. we know that the majority
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of adults with mental health condition will have developed it as a young person. it doesn't make sense not to intervene and support people earlier on, because it will affect the book into their adult life if we do not. not only does that have an impact on adults in terms of maintaining relationships, accessing employment and being able to pay for things in life, but actually, it costs our economy. for so actually, it costs our economy. for so many different reasons, it is important that what we talk about when it comes to young people's mental health actually translates into supporting people early on. it's not happening at the moment, but it needs to, for so many different reasons. that is why i hope that in the budget we will see that change. i want to bring capital backing, because if there are pa rents backing, because if there are parents at home struggling —— to bring cathal back in. you have got support for your son, but what would you say to other parents? push. you have just got to push and
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demand. iam you have just got to push and demand. i am not a you have just got to push and demand. iam not a pushy you have just got to push and demand. i am not a pushy parent. you have just got to push and demand. iam not a pushy parent. my kids have no more rights than anybody else's kids, but they have a right to the services. you have to keep pushing and pushing. the people at the other end, the camhs people come they want to help young people but they are not allowed because the money is not there. push for the services and keep on pushing. thanks for coming in to talk us. a department of health spokesperson said: "our commitment to improving children's mental healthcare is shown by our additional £1.4 billion investment, more trained staff and more children and young people accessing care. but there is more to do which is why we commissioned this review and will publish a green paper on children and young people's mental health by the end of the year." still to come: the spanish senate will today vote on whether to impose direct rule over catalonia — after the catalan government yesterday didn't call a snap election or declare independence. and tomorrow night, in cardiff, anthonyjoshua will seek to defend
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his crown as world heavyweight champion. we'll speak to one of his team as they prepare for the fight. time for the latest news. here's vicki. an investigation into the cyber attack that brought down parts of the nhs in may has found it could have been prevented if basic security measures had been in place. the national audit office says the health service wasn't prepared for the attack and must develop a clear plan to deal with future threats. nhs england says it has invested in improving security and stressed that no harm was caused to patients. thousands of children across england are having to face extremley long waiting times for mental health treatment, according to a review by government inspectors. the care quality commission found that services are too fragmented and hard to access. the department of health says it is investing an extra 1.4 billion in children's
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mental health services over the next four years. french scientists say patients who have heart surgery in the afternoon are less likely to suffer complications than those who are treated in the morning. their research — published in the lancet medicaljournal — argues that the body clock makes the heart stronger during the afternoon than in the morning, and it's more able to withstand the rigours of surgery. the spanish senate is expected to approve government plans to reduce the powers of the region of catalonia today. the catalan authorities say such a move would worsen the political crisis, making a declaration of independence by the regional parliament more likely — though no decision has been reached yet. australia's high court has ruled that the country's deputy prime minister, barnabyjoyce, should be disqualified from office because he held dual citizenship when elected. the verdict has cost the australian government its one—seat majority
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in parliament and a by—election will now be held in december. four other politicians have also been ruled ineligible to remain in parliament. president trump has declassified almost 3000 documents related to the assassination ofjohn f kennedy in 1963. but mr trump decided to keep hundreds of other files secret, at least for the time being, at the request of security agencies. the president had earlier indicated that all of the files would be made public. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. here's some sport now withjohn watson. the rugby league world cup will get under way in melbourne. england have the daunting task of facing reigning champions australia in that opening game. they haven't beaten them since 1995. preparations continue ahead of next
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yea r‘s world preparations continue ahead of next year's world cup. harlequins propjoe marler is set to be available for two of england's three autumn internationals next month. he was suspended for striking, but it's understood his club have successfully queried the verdict with the european cup authorities. a great night ahead for anthony joshua. he is looking to successfully defend his world title. you are talking to his physiotherapist this morning. he wa nts to physiotherapist this morning. he wants to become the first man to hold all four world heavyweight titles. us president donald trump has ordered the release of 2,800 files on presidentjohn f kennedy's assassination. but he blocked the release of other files, citing national security concerns. senior administration officials did not say what the contents of the records being shared by the national archives yesterday were. so what will we learn from the jfk files? this short film explains more. i don't think anybody should be looking for any bombshells.
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there won't be a document pointing to a second gunman in dallas. i think all of the most credible evidence we have all these years shows that lee harvey oswald was the gunman in dealey plaza and almost certainly the lone gunman. but i think there is a real question as to whether or not other people knew he was going to do this and encouraged him to do this. you know, he was not the pure lone wolf that the us government tried to portray him as. to my mind, this has always been sort of the secret chapter of the kennedy assassination drama. why did lee harvey oswald, who was a self—proclaimed marxist, a champion of castro's revolution, go to mexico cityjust several weeks before the assassination, where he met with cuban spies, russian spies and other people who, at the height of the cold war, might have wanted to see kennedy dead. there is evidence out there that oswald, while he is in mexico city, openly talked about killing kennedy. the question becomes whether or not any of those people offered to help him or give him
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encouragement, or offered to help him escape after the assassination. it's very clear that the united states government never wanted to get to the bottom of that because, if they had, it would have exposed just how much more the government had known about the assassin before the assassination. the question has always been what more did the cia know about oswald in real—time, just several weeks before the assassination? it's going to take weeks or months, or even years, to really understand these documents. they will be filled with cia and fbi codenames, pseudonyms and a lot ofjargon that people just aren't going to be able to understand. we're talking about hundreds of thousands of pages of documents. this is going to take a long while. after 10.30 we will be talking to a
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woman who was at the scene of the assassination when she was aged just 11. spain's political crisis is likely to deepen today if — as expected — the spanish senate gives the go ahead to government plans to regain control of the region of catalonia. madrid wants to trigger an article in the spanish constitution that suspends devolution in autonomous regions — and say it's the only way to calm the political crisis in the region. yesterday, the catalan regional parliament debated a possible declaration of independence, but failed to reveal a favoured course of action. so how did we get here? on october the 1st a referendum on catalan independence was held in the region, despite the poll being ruled unconstitutional by the country's supreme court. national police were brought into try and stop the vote from going ahead, leading to violent clashes. cata la n catalan authorities say just catalan authorities sayjust under 90% of voters backed independence, although only 43% of voters took part. after the vote catalonia's leaders
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declared independence, but then suspended it immediately. spain's prime minister responded by announcing plans to remove the region's current leaders and hold fresh elections there as soon as possible. it is these plans that could be given the approval later today. raphael minder is a journalist and author of the book the struggle for catalonia — hejoins me from madrid. rodrigo martinez lives in catalonia and did not vote because he did not think the referendum was legal. he does not think that catalonia should have independence. raphael, this is so confusing, the situation. first of all, catalonia declares independence, then it says it is not going to happen. tell us what is going to happen. tell us what is going on behind the scenes because this confusion. first, i am actually in barcelona, just outside the parliament of catalonia, where we
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are going to have another dramatic day, i fear. it are going to have another dramatic day, ifear. it is confusing. this is brinksmanship, last—minute attem pts is brinksmanship, last—minute atte m pts to is brinksmanship, last—minute attempts to get a political deal, knowing that what comes next is very, very dangerous territory for both sides. as you mentioned, the government in madrid is asking today the senate to put into place emergency measures under an article in the constitution that has never been tested before, article 155, which spaniards are now discovering, the same way as british people discovered article 50 of the lisbon treaty following the brexit referendum. yesterday, and this has been the case for several days, we saw last—minute attempts to avoid this situation reaching this climax. this has been the way all along. it isa game this has been the way all along. it is a game of chicken in which beach—side knows it cannot take full
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responsibility for what comes next, in which the separatists are pushing for a declaration of independence, knowing that they can declare what they want but the government in madrid has the power to make sure there is no independence in catalonia and, in fact, return catalonia and, in fact, return catalonia to a situation where it loses the autonomy that it has had for 40 yea rs loses the autonomy that it has had for 40 years and perhaps a major shake—up of the whole setup of spain, the post—franco setup that was achieved with a great deal of pain in the late 70s. roderigo, we heard their raphael describing it as a game of chicken. as a voter and somebody who decided not to vote in a referendum because you don't support independence, how do you feel about how the politicians are playing around with this right now? well, i totally agree. i think the politicians right now are playing with us, playing with people. i
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think they only want to win more supporters. in madrid, they want supporters. in madrid, they want supporters for spanish union. in catalonia, they want supporters for the issues. so, ithink the people are very the issues. so, ithink the people are very tired of the situation, this play that the politicians are doing in spain. i think the important point here is that people are tired. so, raphael, explain what will happen if the spanish government decides to take control back away from a region that currently is autonomous. realistically, in day—to—day terms, what does that mean for people living in barcelona ? what does that mean for people living in barcelona? well, we don't know, realistically. what are the
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measures say is that the government can doa measures say is that the government can do a whole series of things but need not do them all. what the government that was asking for his permission to basically step in. exactly how it does that isn't clear. what we know is that the government of mariano rajoy has said it will remove the leadership of catalonia. doing that in practice is, in itself, a very converted thing. we don't know if the current leadership, led by carles puigdemont, will step back and agree to do so, or whether they will have to do so, or whether they will have to step out handcuffed with police are stepping into the government building in barcelona, perhaps surrounded by angry crowds. this is step one. step two is even more complicated, taking charge of the autonomous police force. again, we don't know how easy that will be. what we know is that referendum day, october the 1st, the catalan police force basically did not put into force basically did not put into force the orders given by madrid to
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shut down all polling stations, which is why we then got into the terrible mess where spanish police clashed with voters. taking charge ofa clashed with voters. taking charge of a police force raises all sorts of a police force raises all sorts of issues about the loyalty of the security forces. that is very, very dangerous territory indeed. then there are a series of other measures, including taking charge of the public broadcasting in catalonia. whether that means just changing the equivalent of the director of the bbc or perhaps changing some of the presenters, the anchors and so on, we don't know. any of these steps, it is a minefield in which the government of madrid is stepping in with great powers and authority, but without any guidance and no precedent in terms of exactly how you do it. roderigo, do you worry about the things outlined there? no, i think if the law as an article, article
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155, i think you can apply it. it is not impossible. maybe it is not an easy issue. but you can apply. we have public workers, they are not politicians. we do not need politicians. we do not need politicians to administrate the state. we have administrative workers. so, in an ideal situation, maybe six months, six months of central government administrating catalonia and then elections again. i think it is not a very big deal. maybe the people are afraid of the situation, of the application of
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that law. i think we cannot fear about the law. oriol margo moreno is an industrial engineer from barcalona who voted for independence via post, as he lives here in the uk. tell me what you make of what is happening right now and the possibility of the autonomy being removed from catalonia. i think catalonia and spain have been trying to get some catalonian integration in spain for some years and it hasn't been possible. it started quite a few years ago, and now i think it has reached a point of no return. we have seen a positive campaign in scotland, like together we are better, but this hasn't happened in catalonia. today, i think there will be a potential
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declaration of independence after the referendum that happened on the 1st of october, where people were trying to go and cast their votes than they were met by police with batons. you can't ask people not to go into the streets to be able to say what they want. i want to bring this to you, because in the last few moments, the spanish prime minister, mariano rajoy, has asked the senate today pose the catalan leader, mr puigdemont. do you worry, roderigo, asa puigdemont. do you worry, roderigo, as a result of this and what could happen in the next few hours, that violence could return to the streets, as we saw on the day of the referendum? i hope not. i hope the people will continue peacefully. the
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great majority of people in catalonia, now we're working, so we don't want that instability. we want to go back to stability in catalonia. and confidence. oriol, do you think there is a danger that could be more violence on the streets ? could be more violence on the streets? it is surprising what i heard from roderigo. i don't think there will be any violence from citizens. that has been no violence from citizens in catalonia in any other demonstrations. we have had demonstrations every year with millions of people and there is no violence. violence only came when they sent riot police. if there is any, it will be because the riot police will initiate it. we have seen people in the images holding hands like this. i don't think there will be violence unless the spanish
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government thinks that they need to send the police. oriol, are you frustrated with your politicians right now? i am frustrated with the situation because i think no one should ignore that there are millions and millions of people in catalonia demanding something different and they are not being listened to. i am not frustrated at what is happening, because i think it isa what is happening, because i think it is a legitimate way to seek these ambitions, and i think we should listen. it cannot be ignored. and that's why democracy is there. if this is not what you like, democracy is the way forward, and that means ballot boxes. that is what happened. i think madrid is potentially afraid to hear what they don't want to.
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thank you forjoining us today on the programme, gentlemen. the disclosure of childhood criminal records can impact on jobs, visas and house buying — is a report today right to say the rules should be relaxed? he went from just another boy at a boxing club, to olympic champion to global superstar. tomorrow night, in cardiff, anthonyjoshua, bids to defend his crown as world heavyweight champion against the frenchman carlos takam. this time, his preparations have been disrupted, because his original opponent kubrat pulev pulled out through injury, leaving takam to come in at short notice. joshua has a lot to live up to this weekend. his last fight with vladimir klitschko went down as one of the best in history, as he picked himself off the canvas to win the wba belt in heroic style. here's a short clip from a bbc documentary about that fight with klitschko —
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anthony joshua: the road to klitschko — where we can see how joshua prepares on fight day... # run, run.# on fight day, there's pull—outs in every paper. you know, six, eight—page pull—outs. that doesn't happen in boxing. it's the sort of thing that happens in world cups and european championships. that's when it suddenly really dawns, tonight's the night. but he is so relaxed about everything. you know, the one phrase i hear him say a lot is, no stress. boxing's tough enough as it is and if you're not going to enjoy it, you might as well give it up. laughter
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so i don't think having a little laugh will deterfrom me having the ambition to go out there and perform. laughter it's like the last little mot before we take the car on the track. what i'm trying to do is just go with the flow. i'm here, i'm at peace, this is what i've been working for. let's just go out there and have fun. let's talk now to rob madden, who's anthony joshua's physiotherapist and is at the hotel in cardiff with his team now, and barryjones is a former wbo superfeatherweight world champion. thanks, both, for coming in. iwant to start with rob if i can. first of all, how disruptive was it for anthonyjoshua to all, how disruptive was it for anthony joshua to have all, how disruptive was it for anthonyjoshua to have this change
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of opponent at a pretty late a la? first of all, thanks to takam for stepping in, it takes a big man to do that. training wise, it doesn't change much. the heavyweight game is tough, and rob and aj have put in the necessary training to prepare for a slightly different style. is takam and easier or more difficult opponent, in the view of your team? there is not much of a difference between them in the rankings, and both of them bring different assets to the ring, so i wouldn't necessarily say one fighter was better than the other. in the heavyweight game, you have to be prepared that anyone has the ability to really cause damage. barry, i wa nt to to really cause damage. barry, i want to bring you in, because it is all about pressure at this point, isn't it? after that incredible fight against wladimir klitschko,
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anthonyjoshua came back, he was the hero. the pressure is on him — is that the main issue to deal with going into one of the sites? for any boxer, but someone as popular as anthonyjoshua, the pressure is immense. you saw how relaxed ears. what he is. he believes in himself, and that's what he he worries about. i think he just concentrates on what he has to do, and he's good enough. he doesn't have to worry about the change of opponent, except for the height and reach. he's a lot shorter, isn't he? about three inches shorter. that's an easy adjustment for anthonyjoshua,. because he is so good with the left arm, an important weapon for any heavyweight, and he has mastered that punch, that is all he needs to worry about. if he does that, it is a relatively easy night for him. how does he deal with pressure? give as a sense of what he is doing today.
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really, we try to keep everything relax. he has his close friends around him. he is getting ready for the way in —— weigh—in. and he will just focus on the last bits of preparation. is it easier to get ready for this fight than it was for the wladimir klitschko fight, which was so huge? just before, i said the heavyweight game is a tough game. you can't take anything for granted, and it is 100% focused, always. you can't take anything for granted, and it is 100% focused, alwayslj was reading what anthonyjoshua were saying a few days ago, saying he thinks he could dominate the sport for the next ten years — is that realistic as a heavyweight? ten years, you never know who might come
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along. another anthonyjoshua years, you never know who might come along. another anthony joshua might come along. he is capable, he lives the right life, he has the right team behind him, which is very important for any fighter, but especially for a heavyweight, to keep your feet on the ground. he is a star, and that klitschko win made him a global superstar, and everyone wants a piece of anthonyjoshua. not just fights, also commercially, which will have added pressure. he is relaxed and happy with himself, andl is relaxed and happy with himself, and ijust think he concentrates on what he has to do in the ring. he lives a very humble life for a very rich young man. he goes through the training camps as you would when you we re training camps as you would when you were a challenger. if he keeps that mode and that thing in his life, thenl mode and that thing in his life, then i think he can almost dominate. i think now, he is the best heavyweight in the world. until tyson fury comes back, he is the
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only guy who can rival him right now. apart from that, i think he beats everyone who is put in front of him. what about the pressure? a crowd of 78,000 people will be there. for anthonyjoshua, crowd of 78,000 people will be there. for anthony joshua, not crowd of 78,000 people will be there. foranthonyjoshua, nota problem. takam — will it affect him? it might, but once the bell goes, it all goes away. when you have a monster like anthonyjoshua in front of you, you don't worry about people outside the ring, you got enough problems inside it. i thinkjoshua is used those big crowd. he will probably enjoy this more than the which coat fight, because he goes in not as the underdog. —— more than the klitschko fight. it is the chance of a lifetime for takam. we know, in this way, one punch can change a fight. —— in this weight
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category. one shot can totally change the outcome of the fight. takam will think that if he can get close, he might cause problems. if joshua can dominate with the jab, he can make it as easy as he wants it to be. rob, clearly, anthony joshua feels very confident going into this fight? yeah, very confident and calm. as barry says, he is the same quy calm. as barry says, he is the same guy was up he's taking it seriously, though. he's not taking anything for granted. 100% confidence for the win, but be prepared for a decent challenger in takam. thank you for speaking to us, rob. wishing the best of luck. thank you for coming in as well. now, the weather with simon. a chilly start to the day across many parts, but it has been a glorious start for many of us. we've
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had a pretty decent sunrise, as you can see from this first photo. that was sent in from leeds, the sun rising there above the horizon. that has led many of us to have beautiful blue skies this morning. it's not the case everywhere. there are some fog patches around. this is the scene at the moment in salford quays —a scene at the moment in salford quays — a proper pea souper. it is a textbook fine day when the fog clears. some lovely sunny spells. more of a breeze across the far north of scotland. some cloud will affect northern and western areas, and it will be a bit chilly compared to yesterday, temperatures of 10-11dc. to yesterday, temperatures of 10—11dc. sunshine through northern ireland and through northern england once the fog clears from the north—west. the same goes for wales in southern england. temperatures are down by a few deeds agrees —— a few degrees compare to yesterday. a
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bit of cloud in the south west will clear away, leaving sunshine. the high pressure that is giving us this settled weather today will drift further south going into saturday, meaning the wind will pick up further across scotland, and with it, a bit more moisture, so a bit of rain moving into the west of scotland. quite a chilly night again, temperatures down into single figures, lower than that in the countryside in southern and eastern areas. for the start of the weekend, quite a strong wind across northern areas, gales expected. lots of cloud to the west, some outbreaks of rain. some of it affecting north—west england and wales. sunshine through many other areas through tomorrow afternoon. into sunday, things start to change again. look at the cold air, the blues moving down across the uk. the cold air not quite
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reaching northern ireland, wales and the south west, so temperatures not falling quite as far here. they will stay at around 14 celsius. lots of sunshine across england, up into scotland. maximum temperatures only nine celsius in the north—east, with a brisk northerly wind. that would feel quite chilly. don't forget, the clocks go back by one hour in the early hours of sunday morning. u nless early hours of sunday morning. unless you have young kids, like me, you get an extra hour in bed! goodbye. hello. it's friday, it's 10 o'clock, i'm chloe tiley. the health service was just not prepared, says a report into the cyber attack which crippled parts of the nhs earlier this year. in some cases, organisations had to resort to telephone, paper and pen, apps such as whatsapp in terms of communicating with others. so what is ransomware and how can you protect yourself? we'll be speaking to a former hacker and to a security analyst. for some who got a criminal conviction or caution
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while they were under 18, a childhood mistake can affect opportunities forjobs, travel and education. a report out today says it's time the rules around disclosing childhood criminal records were relaxed. we will hear from a qualified teacher who says she cannot get a job in school because of police cautions when she was a child. we will also hear from cautions when she was a child. we will also hearfrom a recruiter who says it is important for employees to know exactly who they are hiring. donald trump, following requests from the cia and fbi, delays the release of some of the more sensitive casenotes about the assassination ofjohn f kennedy. we will hear from a woman who was at the scene of the assassination when she was just the scene of the assassination when she wasjust11. good morning. here's vicki in the bbc newsroom with a summary of today's news. an investigation into the cyberattack that brought down parts
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of the nhs in may has found it could have been prevented if basic security measures had been in place. the national audit office says the health service wasn't prepared for the attack and must develop a clear plan to deal with future threats. the security minister says north korea is to blame for the cyber attack. computer crime often leaves attack. computer crime often leaves a trace and our capabilities to track that. i can't go further into capabilities, but there are strong signs that came from north korea and ourselves and the united states agree with that. the spanish senate is expected to approve government plans to reduce the powers of the region of catalonia today. the catalan authorities say such a move would worsen the political crisis — making a declaration of independence by the regional parliament more likely, though no decision has been reached yet. thousands of children across england are having to face extremley long waiting times for mental health
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treatment, according to a review by government inspectors. the care quality commission found that services are too fragmented and hard to access. the department of health says it is investing an extra 1.4 billion in children's mental health services over the next four years. one former patient told this programme about her experience. it took a while for them to kind of take my mental health not seriously but take it into serious consideration and it took until i was sectioned for me to get a diagnosis of post—traumatic stress disorder. it took a really long time for me to kind of learn about myself and about my mental health and i kind of feel like now i'm catching up on being a teenager, being at university, getting to know myself a lot better. whereas when i was a teenager, i felt like an empty shell. i didn't feel like a human being. australia's high court has ruled that the country's deputy prime minister, barnabyjoyce, should be
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disqualified from office because he held dual citizenship when elected. the verdict has cost the australian government its one—seat majority in parliament and a by—election will now be held in december. four other politicians have also been ruled ineligible to remain in parliament. president trump has declassified almost 3000 documents related to the assassination ofjohn f kennedy in 1963. but mrtrump decided to keep hundreds of other files secret, at least for the time being, at the request of security agencies. the president had earlier indicated that all of the files would be made public. french scientists say patients who have heart surgery in the afternoon are less likely to suffer complications than those who are treated in the morning. their research, published in the lancet medicaljournal, argues that the body clock makes the heart stronger during the afternoon than in the morning, and it's more able to withstand the rigours of surgery. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 10.30.
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here's some sport now withjohn watson. the rugby league world cup hasjust got under way in melbourne, and england are first up. a fascinating opening match to the tournament. this is the atmosphere inside the rectangular stadium in melbourne. kick—off is moments away. 14 teams competing from three co—host countries over the next six weeks. the women's tournament running alongside the men. it all builds to the double—header finale in brisbane on the 2nd of december. it's a big moment for england. they haven't beaten australia since the opening match of the 1995 world cup. how they would love to produce a performance like that in melbourne later. scotland, wales and ireland also competing. wales get their tournament under way against papua new guinea tomorrow. they got a a warm welcome on arrival, expect something very different on the pitch. scotland face new zealand in their opening match. three of 14 teams competing, spread
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out over six weeks of action. you can follow it all across the bbc. there is live coverage now on bbc. there is live coverage now on bbc two at the moment. kick—off was scheduled for ten o'clock. it's moments away now. you can watch it all on bbc two. the rugby union world cup is two years away — england head coach eddiejones selecting several new faces in his squad for the autumn internationals next month with that in mind. after being left out, propjoe marler is now available for selection for two of the three matches after his club succesfully argued his ban for striking should start sooner than a disciplinary panel had initially rulled. so asjones prepares his team, he could recall marler for matches with australia and samoa, the first of those on the 18th. all eyes on the prinicpality stadium in cardiff this weekend — known for hosting rugby more than boxing. not this weekend, as anthonyjoshua
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looks to successfully defend his ibf and wba world titles against the stand—in challenger carlos ta kam. the pairfaced off in the welsh capital yesterday. joshua was due to face the bulgarian kubrat pulev, but he had to withdraw, because of injury. it'll be the briton's first contest since defeating wladimir klitschko, at wembley in april. the mindset of the fight needs to believe that where it was, move onto the next opportunity. if i am living off past wins, i might as give up. boxing is unforgiving. i can't lose this fight and say i won the last one, nobody cares. i've got to move on. world number one dustin johnson leads the world golf championships in shanghai, after a second round nine under par 63. justin rose is the best placed british player, four shots behind at nine under. his round included this birdie on the 16th but a bogey on the final hole pegged him back by a shot.
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good luck to him. that is all of the sport. back to you. earlier we were talking about children and adolescent mental health services. the real problem some people have in accessing them. one father told us his eight—year—old son had to wait 18 months to get that help. one viewer says, heartbreaking watching your report. this was my life's with before i had to retire. it was a superbjob before i had to retire. it was a superb job and experience. before i had to retire. it was a superbjob and experience. it is before i had to retire. it was a superb job and experience. it is sad it has ground down and all of that experience is lost. stephen got in touch, saying i have been referred touch, saying i have been referred to mental health services and was contacted to mental health services and was co nta cted by to mental health services and was contacted by a receptionist. i been given an appointment in april. because i was contacted in two weeks, officially, iam now having treatment. but i will not have any contact with any mental health services until april. keep those thoughts coming. there are few people
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who could honestly say they never did anything wrong when they were growing up — fighting in the playground, stealing sweets from a shop, breaking someone's window — plenty of people would admit they were things they did at some point growing up. but for some people who got a criminal conviction — or even a caution — at a young age, those childhood mistakes can follow them for the rest of their life, and seriously affect their chances of getting a university place, job, house or even visa to go to certain countries. a report out today from parliament'sjustice committee says it's time the rules governing the disclosure of childhood criminal records were relaxed. it suggests some sexual or violent offences committed under the age of 18 should not always be automatically flagged up in checks — but would employers, for example those recruiting teachers or people to work with vulnerable people agree? we can speak now to eleanorjones. she's a qualified teacher — but says two police reprimands from when she was a child
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still on her record have stopped her from getting a job in a school. noel williams had four criminal convictions before he was 16, including for violent crimes. he's now reformed but says he's been rejected from a huge number of jobs and universities because of his record. bob neill is chair of parliament's justice committee — which is calling for these reforms. he's a conservative mp and also a former barrister. and liz navin—jones is a partner at recruitment firm baker harding — they work in recruitment across numerous industries but also have a particular specialism in education. thanks for taking the time to talk to us. first, noel, talk to us about what you did as a young person, your convictions and how it has affected you in later life? i am some of the debt grew up in social housing and i grew up around a lot of other young men who went out and committed what
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we would call street violence, getting involved in gang crime, abh, affray. further on in my life, it has been detrimental. i applied to university, many universities and could not get in. i mean i went for 30-40, could not get in. i mean i went for 30—40, there is a box you have to ta ke 30—40, there is a box you have to take about whether you have a criminal conviction, i am take about whether you have a criminal conviction, iam honest take about whether you have a criminal conviction, i am honest and tell people. then it comes with a risk assessment. it is not easy for people who have committed a crime when they were younger to get a risk assessment. so you tick the box saying you have a criminal conviction. then you have to write details about them or the university would go and seek that out themselves? the university would like you to ask somebody else on your behalf to write the risk assessment for you, so it's not even really your talk where you can sit down with summary. not every young person has somebody to go to and get a risk assessment from. when you wa nt to a risk assessment from. when you want to change your life, as i did, getting into higher education, that is something that is stopping you. it is something that is a barrier,
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rehabilitation to what we seek for society, to make a better, but that isa society, to make a better, but that is a barrier against rehabilitation to further your life and go further on. eleanor, what about you? i received a caution when i was 11 for arson. i received a caution for abh when i was 14. they are violent crimes. even though they are cautions, so they are not as severe asa cautions, so they are not as severe as a conviction, on my record it just shows the violent crimes. just explain what you did. just shows the violent crimes. just explain what you didlj just shows the violent crimes. just explain what you did. i set fire to a piece of toilet roll in the school toilets. when i was 14, i had a schoolgirl fight, really, just scratching and pulling hair. obviously it is bad and i would not do that now. for me, it is difficult that this piece of paper, like noel said, it represents you. it
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represents you as a criminal. so you wa nt to represents you as a criminal. so you want to get a teaching job.|j represents you as a criminal. so you want to get a teaching job. i have a teaching job, i am a teacher. it has beena teaching job, i am a teacher. it has been a difficult journey. teaching job, i am a teacher. it has been a difficultjourney. i teaching job, i am a teacher. it has been a difficult journey. i teach adults now because it was a real barrier going into secondary schools. i lived abroad for a while and then when i came back into the country i tried to get jobs with supply agencies. the supply agencies point blank said to me schools do not want someone with a criminal record. so, it didn't even get to the stage where it went to risk assessment. supply agencies need to represent themselves. assessment. supply agencies need to represent themselveslj assessment. supply agencies need to represent themselves. i wanted to bring in liz nevenjones, who works for a recruitment firm. do you think that mistakes that were made here, as we heard from three macron eleanor, should always be disclosed to employers? pin well, as a recruiter, one always has to protect
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your client. as the other people said, they carry these mistakes that they made as young people through their lives. but we at the recruitment stage, you have to draw the line somewhere. you have to really check out candidates. if that information is available, if it is on police records or whatever, then you have to absolutely ensure that you have to absolutely ensure that you have to absolutely ensure that you have done all of your checks. we don't want people to be barred from certain employment, and we don't wa nt certain employment, and we don't want people to have two be blighted for the rest of their lives for something that they did in a fit of silliness when they were young. at the same time, we do have to protect our clients. if that information is there, you cannot deny it is there and you have to use it. as long as the acts are as they are, the 1974
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act, that, i'm sorry, it has to be the case. noel noel, do you want to speak to liz?” know that he and his committee are working hard, and i understand the woman's opinion there, and what i get from the report is that there are certain crimes, sexual and violent crimes, then clearly come overfor violent crimes, then clearly come over for whatever industry you are going into, we need that transparency. i agree with that myself. also, ethnically, there are certain crimes that people commit, which are more persistent in certain areas. i think not all employers will take the time to understand. i understand what the woman is alluding to, but i don't think the vetting they have is qualitative, where they sit down and discuss what
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it was. if you're going to read it from a piece of paper and look at arson, that doesn't look very good. i get both points. but what we want is in society is to rehabilitate our young people to give them the best chance to go forward, and i think we need to incorporate some of what bob and his colleagues are saying into our lives and into society, and it will better us in the long run. bob neill, your committee was behind this report — is that the crux of theissueis this report — is that the crux of the issue is that? it has to be not such a simplistic system. if you tick a box saying you have a criminal conviction, sometimes attends there. that is entirely right, and it is part of the problem with a tick box culture, and it is a cover your back culture from the person doing that sift, and they don't take it any further. ultimately, it is possible to get
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through that process, but it is a struggle. and we have lots of evidence to that account. lots of people don't move past that stage, and we think that is wrong. there will always be instances when the conviction is relevant, and that meets liz's point. if someone has stolen money and they are being interviewed for a job where they would be handling money, it might well be relevant. if it was bad behaviour of a sexual or viole nt kind and you would be dealing with vulnerable people, that would be relevant. we're talking particularly about offences committed by children who are then moving on beyond that. so we want a separate system to deal with children from adult offenders. and we also think that the law, which is piecemeal, needs to be simplified so that you have a system whereby things are not automatically disclosed, they are disclosed where they are relevant. and in deciding that, you take into account the
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nature of the offence, notjust the title, how long ago it was, and how seriously the court regarded it. if they gave conditional discharge for it never even went to court and was dealt with through a caution, that is less serious in the scheme of things than someone who to custody. it doesn't make it right, but it is being proportionate about the risk for the future. liz, does that make sense from an employer's perspective? it certainly makes sense, and in an ideal world, perspective? it certainly makes sense, and in an idealworld, it would be set up so that any information we did receive, we could then qualify yet and quantify it. as it stands at the moment, the 1974 act was reformed in 2014, i think. bob will know better than i do. so certain convictions, the spent period on them was lowered, precisely for these reasons that bob is pointing out. to have committed a
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crime at a young age and then to have to carry through the rest of your life is obviously going to be detrimental, but it is only for certain industries, only certain sections of employment that they do carry those through. the others are spent, they are finished. if you are cautioned for stealing apples when you were six years old, that doesn't necessarily carry through to any employment that you would be looking for. it would only be, as eleanor was saying, in teaching, dealing with children. all that information has to be given to clients. from our point of view, from a recruiter's point of view, from a recruiter's point of view, as i said before, if the information is there, we would be negligent not to use it. as eleanor was saying, the supply agencies were eleanor was saying, the supply agencies were very eleanor was saying, the supply
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agencies were very cautious about putting her in a school because she had those awful black mark, albeit seemingly unjust, but that is the way it is at the moment. if bob can change things in parliament so that we can clearly no where we can use information of where we can't, then that would be the ideal world. i don't want to see these young people blighted, as i said, for the whole of their lives because of one silly act that they committed when they we re act that they committed when they were a little bit worse for wear after their first sample of a glass of cider or whatever. we want to have information. we can't deny in the 21st century that information is plentiful, and if employers didn't have that information given to them, they were going —— they are going to find it out anyway. information, nowadays, is something we can't deny we're going to have more and more of, and candidates coming to look
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forjobs, looking for houses or going to universities, if they have committed these offences, they have to carry them through their lives and explain them very coherently. let me read this e—mail that has from andrew. thanks for getting in touch, andrew. he says: iwas 16 from andrew. thanks for getting in touch, andrew. he says: i was 16 and got caught doing graffiti on our bus. i had a tussle with a conductor and we both hit each other. in court, they offered to lower the fine if i admitted assault. almost 30 years on, i still had to explain this injob interviews.” 30 years on, i still had to explain this in job interviews. i think that's the problem. i understand liz's point, but since 2014, although there was some reform, it was piecemeal, as i said, and since then there has been the decision of a court of appeal in 2016 that says the current system, especially in relation to young people, is, in their words, relation to young people, is, in theirwords, disproportionate relation to young people, is, in their words, disproportionate and not in line with human rights law. we need the government to update the
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law to reflect that, so that it takes into account the nature of the offe nce, takes into account the nature of the offence, how long ago it was. evidence shows that young people move away from crime as they mature and get into their 20s. the best way to make sure people don't fall back into crime is to get them back into employment or education and get them sta ble employment or education and get them stable housing. we found this was getting on the work —— in the way of people getting on housing lists, leaving them unable to drive for a job they were going to go for. 30 years after the fact, should people be explaining something which happened when they were 16? what about people at home who say that they understand eleanor and noble explaining their mistakes of the past, but the parent of a child going to the school, they might say,
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the crime is nonetheless arson, and i don't want that person teaching my child. can you understand that viewpoint? i'll let eleanor respond and then you go ahead. she did a sharp intake of breath! obviously, i can see it from the parents' point of view, but as an 11—year—old, you don't think about consequences of your actions. you do stupid things. not only that thing that has now affected me for the rest of my life, there are many things i wouldn't do now as a grown—up, as a 28—year—old, that i did when i was 11. i don't play hide and seek, for example. when i was 14 and all the hormones and things... yeah, and having a fight with another girl, i wouldn't do that now. i see the point, but yeah. i fully understand and get what you're saying, but we have
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behavioural schools, and lots of ex—offenders were there, because the young people are displaying the behaviour they identify with. they have changed their lives and understand where things are going, and it is all right for people to work in those type of schools but not in mainstream schools. there is something fantastic that came from the report, which i want to highlight, which said that we should maybe look to extend the time to the age of 25. as you said, bob, most of the evidence says that people when they get into their early 20s, have a child, get a job or have something that takes them away from crime, i just want to say if you have committed a crime at 16 and we have a lengthy extension to 25, you could get university done, make the first step on your career, and the one has to know anything. if all you have to talk about is that you got a conviction and you can't get into education or employment, if we turn
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it around and look at rehabilitation, we could get better numbers. thank you for coming in and sharing your experiences. asa as a report says that the nhs was underprepared for a cyber attack, we hear about how a repeat attack can be prevented, and how you can prevent yourself —— protect yourself. english football really isn't renowned for its success at world cups, but tomorrow evening in kolkata england's under 17s will be playing spain in a world cup final. the side beat brazil 3—1 in wednesday's semi—final — with liverpool youth player rhian brewster scoring a hat—trick. this year has already seen england's under 20s win their world cup, while the under 19s won the european championships. so, as the youth sides dominate — the likely questions will be asked about whether this will translate into future success for the senior side. let's talk first to rahul tandon.
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he's a bbc sport reporter in kolkata who was at england's semi—final and will be at tomorrow's final. we can also talk to ian brewster, father of rhian brewster who scored a hat—trick in the semi—final, and simon bird, football writer for the daily mirror who focusses on youth football. ian, how proud are you right now? very proud. i'm onlyjust coming back down to earth, so to speak. clearly, you know your son is a great player. you are his bad and you support him, but are you surprised by his performance in this competition? i would say more surprised at the second hat—trick. the first one, i spoke to him before the game on saturday, i takes at him and said, it's about time you turned up, because his performances didn't sort of, like... well, they
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warranted more success, so to speak. he rewarded me with a hat—trick. what he did on wednesday i couldn't believe. to score another hat—trick was just believe. to score another hat—trick wasjust phenomenal. simon, tell us about the semifinal. people who haven't been watching, a 3—1 defeat brazil is no mean feat might. haven't been watching, a 3—1 defeat brazil is no mean feat mightm haven't been watching, a 3—1 defeat brazil is no mean feat might. it was a wonderful performance. it indicated how much progress the youth ranks are making in the england setup. they showed composure , we re good england setup. they showed composure, were good on england setup. they showed composure, were good on the ball, had all those english traits of being athletic and quick, and mr brewster was fantastic finishing as well. the future is bright. every age group in the england setup has a real club mentality. they have been with each other from the age of 15, right through the ranks, and they know each other's strengths and weaknesses, and they are proving themselves right up there best amongst in the world for their age. the challenge is to get that translate into the senior side. what happens, in your view,
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translate into the senior side. what happens, in yourview, between translate into the senior side. what happens, in your view, between going from success in the unders category through to full international level? is it through to full international level? isita through to full international level? is it a different mentality? is it hunger, and they don't have lots of money, sports cars and distractions? money could be a part of it. the biggest problem the fa recognise and try to talk to clubs about is the pathway from being a brilliant junior at the age of 20 and then getting experience in what they call man football, not out on loan in the junior leagues. these guys need to be playing in the premier league. at the under 21 tournament in the summer, there was a remarkable statistic that showed that the england squad had 20,000 premier league minutes under their belts, but the germans had 37,000 in their big league. to be on top of the
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world in the under 20 category and then being 23 and moving on... the clubs have a big responsibility. they want to stay in the premier league. we have the richest clubs in the world, who by players in and don't necessarily give you the chance when they should. spurs are leading the way. they have some wonderful young players getting opportunities now. harry kane and deli alli came through the ranks and are very deli alli came through the ranks and are very young. we are an english league, and it would be great if we could see is more of these brilliant under 20s coming through the ranks, getting first—team experience in our own top league. your son is in getting first—team games, so then there is that difficult decision. i know thatjurgen klopp has been really impressed by your son, but is he going to have to make a decision about moving to a different club,
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playing loverly, or as we heard, having to sit there and hope that liverpool play him and give him premier league minutes? at this stage, bearing in mind his age, experience and what he's doing at the moment, i think it is something we are not focusing on in his mind at this moment in time. it is really more about his development, pushing onto that next level. i think it is bit early to be saying first—team football. when you speak to saying first—team football. when you speakto him, saying first—team football. when you speak to him, of course that is his ultimate goal. but he knows he has got a slightly better pathway in liverpool and he will continue in that vein. at 16, liverpool and he will continue in that vein. at16, he liverpool and he will continue in that vein. at 16, he is playing under 23 football. he was probably a year ahead of where we thought he would be at this stage. if you were asking the same question when he was 19 or20, yes, you asking the same question when he was 19 or 20, yes, you would probably have to start looking at things like that. at this stage it is all about
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his development, still enjoying the game. hopefully his exploits were getting there sooner rather than later. where are you watching a game? guillemot —— later. where are you watching a game? guillemot -- i am in atlanta at the moment. i will still be here. i will be at my friend's house watching the game. best of luck, thanks for talking to us. still to come, we will be live from barcelona as the spanish prime minister mariano rajoy urges the senator to let madrid take control of catalonia. as files on the assassination ofjohn f kennedy are released, we will speak to a woman who was there on the day when she was just 11. time for the latest news — here's vicki. the security minister, ben wallace, has publicly blamed north korea for the cyber attack which crippled parts of the nhs in may. the national audit office has found that the attack could have been blocked if basic it security measures had been in place.
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we have capabilities in government to track that. i can't go further into our capabilities but there are strong signs that came from north korea. ourselves and i think the united states also agree with that. thousands of children across england are having to face extremley long waiting times for mental health treatment, according to a review by government inspectors. the care quality commission found that services are too fragmented and hard to access. the department of health says it is investing an extra 1.4 billion in children's mental health services over the next four years. the spanish prime minister, mariano rajoy, has urged the senate to let madrid take control of catalonia, accusing the region's leaders of fracturing society. the catalan authorities say such a move would worsen the political crisis, making a declaration of independence by the regional parliament more likely —
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though no decision has been reached yet. australia's high court has ruled that the country's deputy prime minister, barnabyjoyce, should be disqualified from office because he held dual citizenship when elected. the verdict has cost the australian government its one—seat majority in parliament and a by—election will now be held in december. four other politicians have also been ruled ineligible to remain in parliament. the uk's most senior civil servant, jeremy heywood, has been treated for cancer. he was diagnosed injune according to his office and treatment went well. the statement also says that he remains totally focused on his duties as head of the civil service. that is the latest bbc news. here's some sport now withjohn watson. the opening game of the rugby league world cup is under way — and what a start for england
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against the co hosts australia in melbourne. jermaine mcgillvary scored this try in the 4th minute against the reigning champions. they're they‘ re currently lead they're currently lead 4—0. england haven't beaten australia since the opening match of the 1995 rugby league world cup! in rugby union, harlequins prop joe marler will be available to face australia in the autumn internationals on the 18th of november. he was set to miss out, but his club have successfully argued his ban for striking should start sooner. and a big weekend ahead for anthonyjoshua — in cardiff at the principality staidum, known more for its rugby than boxing. he hopes to succesfully defend the two titles he holds, but he's eyeing more. he wants to become the first man to hold all four heavyweight world titles, by picking up two more belts to unify the division. that will most likely come next year. that is all of the sport. back to you. we were talking earlier
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about mental health services for young people and adolescents. one man spoke to us, his eight—year—old son had to wait 18 months to access the services. once he got the help, he said it was incredible, the support and the nhs really helped his son. but the 18 month wait was a real problem. we have had this text from a viewer. i want to praise the professional, prompt treatment my son received from camhs at the thorny wood centre. it is one of the main reasons i feel proud to be british, the nhs. the crisis in catalonia is deepening this morning after the spanish prime minister, mariano rajoy, asked the senate to approve madrid's proposals to sack the catalan government. the catalan parliament could respond by declaring independence unilaterally. tim wilcox is in barcelona. bring us
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right up to date with developments over the last 30 minutes or so. well, actually, after weeks of turmoil, mass demonstrations and chaos, quite frankly, this catalan crisis is finally coming to a head today. as you just said, in the last hour, mariano rajoy, the spanish prime minister, a member of the popular party has been addressing the senate, where he has a majority. his message was stark. breaking the law, he told senators, has consequences. so we expect the senate to vote quite soon on invoking article 150 five. it has never been used before. the nuclear option, that has been described by many commentators. that is imposing direct rule from madrid over autonomous region here in spain. i am standing outside the catalan parliament. carles puigdemont, the cata la n parliament. carles puigdemont, the catalan president, has not arrived yet. one of the motions they will be
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voting on, we understand, is a declaration of independence, declaring that catalonia is a sovereign, independent state and notifying the eu about that. this region is split. it is notjust a battle between catalonia and madrid. it is an internal battle between the people that want to be independent and those that don't. i spoke to a separatist mp as he walked into parliament today and asked if they would actually, finally, declare independence. a declaration of independence, as you know, was actually signed by mps in parliament. it was not voted. so now the vote will take place, if everything goes as scheduled. ok. as soon as that happens, article 155, we understand will be imposed. what then? that depends on the spanish governed. that is what they have threatened us with doing. they will try to apply some of the very strict
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measures that will in fact suspend the catalan home rule. the idea is that it independence is already proclaimed, the spanish legal system and whatever legal menace mariano rajoy makes, that will not apply to the catalan region. what will happen with the ministers, the civil service and the police? we don't know. we don't know the future. but surely, you have had years to work out what to do in a moment like this. so what are the contingency plans? we know what we want, we want a very peaceful environment where mps in parliament can vote. then we can start talks with the spanish government in madrid. i think that would be the best thing. we have stretched out our hand, we have tried to talk for a number of times with international mediation. it hasn't been possible. we were
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speaking earlier on to voters in catalonia who were saying they were quite frustrated by the brinkmanship that seems to be going on between the catalonian politicians and the spanish politicians. what reaction are you hearing? well, there is anger among supporters of carles puigdemont, the separatists. they say he has bottled it, basically. you could have declared unilateral independence yesterday. at one stage she was going to declare snap elections and he pulled back. on the other hand, you have people that don't want to leave madrid, they wa nt to don't want to leave madrid, they want to stay part of spain, and they are furious with him. i think there is an argument to be made that, in some quarters, this is irresponsible politics. carles puigdemont, who has devoted his life to independence, is a lwa ys devoted his life to independence, is always raising the bar, always saying, ok, i'm going to do this, and then stepping back from it. it leads to frustration amongst his own supporters and real anger amongst those who don't want to leave spain
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because they are saying he is playing with the political voters in this region. it is a very complicated, very divided society. the nationalists, the separatists, have made it their ambition for yea rs have made it their ambition for years and decades to be independent. when it comes to finally announcing it, they have stepped back until, potentially, today. that could finally be crunch time. thank you for updating us. an investigation has found that a malware attack that crippled parts of the nhs in may could have been prevented if basic it security measures had been in place. nearly 7000 nhs appointments were cancelled as a result of the incident. the national audit office said the health service was not prepared for the attack in which criminals froze computers and demanded a ransom. it calls on the nhs to develop a clear plan to deal with future threats. ina
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in a moment we will discuss how they can do that. first, what is ra nsomwa re and how can do that. first, what is ransomware and how can it be stopped? unite it is a malicious computer virus that threatens to destroy your files or your reputation unless you pay the criminals a fee. some examples incredible scramble your photos, videos and documents and they can only be decrypted if you pay a ransom. sometimes, software will claim you have been caught watching pornography or downloading illegal images and threaten to e—mail all of your contacts and expose you unless your contacts and expose you unless you paid a ransom. usually these programmes impose a deadline, so if you don't pay in time the ransom goes up. some cases of ransomware arejust smoke goes up. some cases of ransomware are just smoke and mirrors, trying to scare you into paying up. u nfortu nately, to scare you into paying up. unfortunately, in most cases they really do encrypt your files. that means the only way to get them back is either to resort to a back—up or to cave in to their demands. when you're dealing with blackmailers, you're dealing with blackmailers, you have absolutely no guarantee that you will get your files back or that you will get your files back or that he won't get infected again. the best way to protect yourself is
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by following some age—old advice. don't open attachments or links in unsolicited e—mails. keep your computer software patches up to date. keep a copy of all of your important files on an external drive so you have a back—up if the worst comes to the worst and contact an expert if it happens to you. you might also be a better get some help from your local police. joining me now is kingsley manning, the former chair of nhs digital — they're responsible for overseeing cyber security for the nhs in england, emily orton, a cyber security analyst from the software company darktrace, and in woking, surrey, rob shapland, an ethical hacker from the penetration testing team at first base technologies. thank you for speaking to us about this today. first of all, kingsley manning, people reading this story will be a little bit perplexed about how basic it security wasn't administered within the nhs. yes,
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quite rightly so. it is important to distinguish which part of the nhs we are talking about. it is not a single organisation, it is complex and vulnerable to these types of attacks. much of the nhs was com pletely attacks. much of the nhs was completely compromised. there was no problem for the national systems, they were highly resistant and survived the attack, and previous attacks very well indeed. there was attacks very well indeed. there was a small part of the system which had been advised to patch the system and make the changes. they have been advised several times over a number of years to improve. but they failed to do so. they represented about a third of the trusts and about 15% of gps. it is part of the nhs that were caught up, not as a target, but as a victim of an international problem. emily, do you find this uprising that parts of the nhs were told to basically download something and didn't? i don't, actually. this was
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an international campaign, it is not just the nhs. very large companies we re just the nhs. very large companies were hit by this, that are much better resourced and have less excuse, probably, than the nhs. so we need to bear in mind and keep that context in our heads. why is it so difficult? well, yes, they should have patched. it's a bit like washing your hands. it is going to reduce your risk, it is helping you protect against vulnerabilities that the industry knows about and has a patch for. the patch, is a time—consuming, expensive, why did the nhs not do it? as has been mentioned, lots of disparate different organisations doesn't help. it really does depend on resources. does it cost money, do you have to pay for it, does it take a long time? if you get an e—mail saying you need to do that, why didn't part of the nhs do it? i don't expect you to answer on behalf of the nhs? time is always an issue,
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people have different priorities. security teams are very overwhelmed at the moment with all sorts of priorities. you've got staff, medical staff, needing the services. it is difficult. yes, it is completely doable, but there is prioritisation. let's bring in rob, and ethical hacker. —— an ethical hacker. do you think this has been a good lesson for organisations, that we have to ta ke for organisations, that we have to take cyber security more seriously? i think we have lost rob, which is frustrating. let's listen to the security minister, ben wallace, who has been speaking to the bbc today. he has been talking about who he believes is behind a cyber attack. computer crime often leaves a trace, and we have capability to track that. i can't go any further into our capabilities, but there are strong signs it came from north
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korea, and ourselves and also the united states agree with that. are you surprised that we're hearing it is from north korea? it has been a rumour. the evidence is always tangential in these things. mostly they originate from eastern europe and beyond. this one looks like it may have been criminal, but the real worry is targeted attacks on the nhs potentially through state terrorism. this was a wake—up call to the nhs. actually, it survived rather well. the real threat is much more directed, more focused, and the nhs had been preparing for that for several years. we were talking to our technology correspondent earlier on, and he said it was a blessing that it happened in a friday in the month of may rather than on a monday injanuary during a flu epidemic. these viruses, as in human
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populations, tend to distribute themselves rapidly, causing a knock—on effect, as it did in certain regions. friday was a blessing. lets try rob again. do you think this was a good wake—up call for people? yeah, definitely. the attack was quite simple in the way it got on to the systems. and as we talked about, relatively simple to prevent. the big wake—up call to me was that if someone had behind though it might be behind it rather thanit though it might be behind it rather than it being automatic, they could easily have got access to patient data, nhs records, tampered with them or publish them. it could have been worse. although it was a damaging attack, i think we got away a little bit lightly. let's be clear: it was never getting near to patient records, this malware. those
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systems are very patient records, this malware. those systems are very secure. patient records, this malware. those systems are very secure. it was a wake—up call in that we need to make sure the systems are up—to—date and ready for this sort of attack in the future. is there a sense that the nhs has got a robust system in place now and is protecting itself? the nhs faces a number of difficulties, including resources and focus. we have a large number of organisations ‘ over have a large number of organisations — over 300 hospitals, 8000 gps, all separate organisations with dozens of priorities, of which this is one. although there is more money being invested in cyber security, it's still not enough. the third issue is the lack of clarity. i think it is right to point out that it is not clear who takes full responsibility,
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whether it is nhs england, the sea qc, nhs digital, a whole host of organisations who will have a finger in the pie, so there needs to be greater clarity and focus. it's not good enough simply to do basics like patching and hygiene. threats are evolving all the time. there are new attack methodology is coming out every day. you have insiders, and there is no patch for that. we have to think about security in a different way. yes, do hygiene and patching, there is no excuse not to, but you also have to have systems like artificial intelligence, things that will detect threats that are brand—new, novel, and would never be predicted by any patch or antivirus. what about individuals? what should they do to make sure they don't fall foul of this? it is difficult, but there are good guidelines on the government website. things like
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passwords, changing them, and being aware and sceptical of insecure websites, for example. ithink holding accountable the people that you trust with your data. those big organisations, they have huge amounts of customer data, your data, andl amounts of customer data, your data, and i think if we held them up to a higher degree of scrutiny, that will push them and help to drive change in the industry. thank you very much for coming in. in a statement, dan taylor, nhs digital‘s head of security, tells us the attack in may was "on an unprecedented scale" and the nhs had "responded admirably to the situation". he added: "doctors, nurses and professionals from all areas pulled together and worked incredibly hard to keep frontline services for patients running and to get everything back to normal as swiftly as possible." nearly 3000 classified files on the assassination of presidentjohn f kennedy in 1963 have now been released, on the order of president trump. but some documents have been withheld at the request
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of government agencies. one memo revealed that the fbi had warned police of a death threat against the assassin lee harvey oswald. the assassination has been the subject of various conspiracy theories. so what will we learn from the jfk files? this short film explains more. i don't think anybody should be looking for any bombshells. there won't be a document pointing to a second gunman in dallas. i think all of the most credible evidence we have all these years shows that lee harvey oswald was the gunman in dealey plaza and almost certainly the lone gunman. but i think there is a real question as to whether or not other people knew he was good to do this and encouraged him to do this. ——knew he was going to do this and encouraged him to do this. you know, he was not the pure lone wolf that the us government tried to portray him as. to my mind, this has always been sort of the secret chapter of the kennedy assassination drama. why did lee harvey oswald, who was a self—proclaimed marxist, a champion of castro's revolution, go to mexico cityjust several weeks
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before the assassination, where he met with cuban spies, russian spies and other people who, at the height of the cold war, might have wanted to see kennedy dead? there is evidence out there that oswald, while he is in mexico city, openly talked about killing kennedy. the question becomes whether or not any of those people offered to help him or give him encouragement, or offered to help him escape after the assassination. it's very clear that the united states government never wanted to get to the bottom of that because, if they had, it would have exposed just how much more the government had known about the assassin before the assassination. the question has always been, what more did the cia know about oswald in real—time, just several weeks before the assassination? it's going to take weeks or months, or even years, to really understand these documents. they will be filled with cia and fbi codenames, pseudonyms and a lot ofjargon that people just aren't going to be able to understand. we're talking about hundreds
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of thousands of pages of documents. this is going to take a long while. we can speak now to doctor tony glover, who was at the scene of jfk's assassination when she was aged just 11. shejoins us jfk's assassination when she was aged just 11. she joins us from jfk's assassination when she was aged just 11. shejoins us from her home in pennsylvania. thank you for taking the time to talk to us. just ta ke taking the time to talk to us. just take us back to that day. did you even understand what was going on at the age of 11? i understood, because i watched it happen. i was 11, and i wa nted i watched it happen. i was 11, and i wanted to go to the parade. i begged my mother to take me to the parade. my my mother to take me to the parade. my family was divorced, and i thought if i saw kennedy, if you looked at me and wait, that somehow i would be part of his world and all my troubles would disappear at home.
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so, i went there with some magic thinking. they came by, and he waved and smiled, then he turned the corner and he was gone, he was dead. it was 15 seconds between the most wonderful moment in my life and one of the worst. so, was it the sound or the site? clearly, everything almost happens in slow motion in those moments, but what was it that you remember specifically? it's important to understand the context. we were at our presidential parade we we re we were at our presidential parade we were celebrating, talking to strangers. everybody was just, we were celebrating, talking to strangers. everybody wasjust, you know, ecstatic, and then that happened. downtown dallas echoes, and there were ten or 12 harley davidson motorcycles on either side of the cars, so hearing the exact
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shots wasn't as easy as you would think. i had a direct line of sight to the car whenever his head was hit, so i saw immediately what had happened. even so, you want to deny it, and! happened. even so, you want to deny it, and i told my mum that someone threw fireworks at the car, but you know, that only lasts for a couple of seconds before reality sinks in. what was the reaction around you when that happened ? what was the reaction around you when that happened? confusion, mostly. i was on a corner, on a pedestal that was high, so i could see all the way around dealey plaza will stop most of the people on the ground near me couldn't see that far down the street, so there was a lot of confusion. no one really knew what had happened. it was mostly confusion, and i got my mother out of there and we went home as fast as i could get there. you have that
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when you get home you are going to see something on the news that says something graced his head, but that didn't happen. we got home and saw walter cronkite. of course. let's fast forward to donald trump, now president of the united states, making this decision to release these files will stop —— release these files will stop —— release these files. four. some files have been withheld at the request of the fbi and cia - been withheld at the request of the fbi and cia — what do you make of that? first of i apologise for donald trump. i can't apologise enough to the world. from what i have heard, the white house didn't do the work that was necessary. a law was passed that it had to be released today, and the secret service and others had redactions they wanted, and the white house should have been looking at those before today so that things could be
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released, but that didn't happen. i don't know what they are going to find in these documents. i believe that oswald fired from that window. being there did not give me any insight into what happened. you know, eyewitnesses are the worst source of information that you can get. i think there's a conspiracy culture that's probably going to look a fact that they can emphasise and twist so that it supports their conspiracy. i don't think the conspiracy. i don't think the conspiracy culture's going to go away. as a matter of fact, one thing in these documents shows thatj edgar hoover at the time said, we need to be sure the american people understand that oswald killed the president, because we don't want a bunch of conspiracies developing. and of course, that's exactly what happened. as you say, doctor glover, conspiracy theories are likely to
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run and run. thank you for speaking to us. we're very grateful you. bbc newsroom live is coming up next. thank you for your company today. have a good day. will be back at the same time on monday. —— we'll be back. good morning. we still have one or two fog patches affecting the north west of england, into the midlands, but for many of us, it is glorious out there at the moment, clear blue skies across many parts of the uk. this is the scene in buckinghamshire at the moment, and this isjust a textbook fine day. a bit of a breeze affecting the far north of scotland, perhaps more cloud in the afternoon here. plenty of dry weather with that sunshine. a little chillier
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than the last few days, temperatures 11-15dc. than the last few days, temperatures 11—15dc. tonight, more cloud moving into the north and west, some rain into the north and west, some rain into the north and west, some rain into the far north—west of scotland. clear skies, particularly towards the south—east. quite chilly. chilly start on saturday, but sunshine to the east high ground. elsewhere, more cloud around, with outbreaks of rain across the west of scotland and north—west england. top temperatures of and north—west england. top temperatures ofand 16 north—west england. top temperatures of and 16 celsius. —— 13—16dc. this is bbc news, and these are the top
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stories developing at 11pm: as catalonia pushes for independence, spain's prime minister calls on senators to approve direct rule over the region. i live in barcelona, where the cata la n i live in barcelona, where the catalan crisis is finally coming to a head. a minister blames north korea for the cyber attack which crippled parts of the nhs in may. open heart surgery appears to be safer in the afternoon, due to the working of the body clock. also, throwing more light on a shocking moment in american history — president trump declassifies 3000 documents related to the assassination ofjohn f kennedy, but keeps others secret. and england face a tough start against australia —

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