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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  April 24, 2018 4:30am-5:02am BST

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uk. 00:28:18,059 --> 1073741526:09:35,902 this 1073741526:09:35,902 --> 2147483051:50:53,744 is 2147483051:50:53,744 --> 3221224577:32:11,586 the 3221224577:32:11,586 --> 4294966103:13:29,430 briefing. 00:00:00,001 --> 1073741525:48:22,358 this 1073741525:48:22,358 --> 2147483051:36:44,715 is 2147483051:36:44,715 --> 3221224577:25:07,072 bbc 3221224577:25:07,072 --> 4294966103:13:29,430 news. killing 10 and injuring i'm sally bundock. as a van is deliberately driven into pedestrians. 15 more. wider national security one man's been arrested. implications. has been named as 25—year—old alek minassian. at the white house at the start of a 3—day state visit to the us. officials say there are no wider national security implications. syria and the iran nuclear deal. at this time. they have had a private dinner tonight. days of since president trump came to power. in celebrating the arrival of their third child. and his older siblings prince george and princess charlotte. both the duchess and her baby are doing well. now on
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bbc news, hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. the best art helps us to see and feel in new ways. it can challenge and provoke. the boundaries of what we think of as art. which range from war to family to food. he's won plaudits around the world. what does his work tell us about the state we're in? michael
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rakowitz, welcome to hardtalk. thanks for having me. it's a great pleasure to have you. it seems to me, in your work, there is a duality. from iraq. why is that duality so important to you? so paradoxical for
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people. which is the dolma in the iraqi—jewish dialect. from the islamic community. but it sounded so normal,
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it felt so normal. from was about to be bombed by the place they fled to. that's a crucial experience for you, when iraq became the enemy. to most americans as somewhere hateful and frightening. coming from the night
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vision of cnn. that i was never going to be able to visit. in new york? it was like the riddle of the sphinx. was not visible in the us beyond oil and war. and we'll get to iraqi restaurants in new york later. between food and culture and art. but we don't want to raise that here. sure. in terms of the arabic language, in terms of a rich culture and food. you're not talking aboutjewishness, and yet, they were iraquews.
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than they felt in theirjewishness? going forward, of how things can be. because it was, and it wasn't so long ago. because of the sabbath. really held dear. and nationalist programmes can complicate that.
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it's very central to a lot of your work. in all of the country. and we can see an image of it. which is the sort half man, half bull or lion. it has wings, it's a mythical creature. and you've been given that spot on trafalgar square on the plinth. tell me the origins of this piece of work. and yet it's something you've made out of trash. exactly.
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in the aftermath of the looting of the iraq museum in 2003. where beyond oil and war, where do you see it? it's in arabic and english. that are given away for free to the refugees. i believe, of something like 10,500 old cans of date syrup. exactly. import export company to import iraqi dates. but i found out that iraqi dates are the best in the world. suffered alongside the people and the
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culture. the estimates were something around 3 million. never destroy the idea behind these ancient artefacts? a ghost of it that's made out of trash. so is it optimistic or is it bleak? it comes back to food. it's sweet and sour. you want your stew to be sweet and vice—versa.
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right. after da esh started to destroy things. to want to rebuild. because the artefacts always perish alongside people. and so, in some way... one could talk about nimrud in iraq,
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nineveh as well, of course. of deaths of human beings. and was that angering you? and not know that we were living in a war culture. would turn into outrage around lost iraqi lives. but i do wonder where people put their morning. —— mourning. you know, i wonder where they put their
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outrage into symbolic things. it was an iraqi tragedy, but it was also a human tragedy. opportunities about sharing this sense of loss in other directions. will you everfinish this mammoth project of yours? the invisible enemy should not exist. will you ever get that done? you're only on about number 800 of 8000, i think. it's like a lifetime task. that will outlive me and my studio. being involved
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in it. that like, oh, we can just rebuild palmyra. this amazing archaeologist that protected not only the... he was the 82—year—old archaeologist who was actually executed... a tragedy, tragic. .. which was safeguarding, being the guardian of palmyra. give up the location of certain people. so this is somebody who understood what was happening. when books burn, people burn. you know, we've seen that throughout history. to think about some of your other work as well. with the us actually occupying iraq after 2002—2003.
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has that turned you into an anti—war artist? oh, i don't think i was ever a pro—war artist, um... i think so. i mean, it's notjust that i do with the work. i think i do a lot of things, hopefully, with the work. the dehumanisation of that experience of combat and occupation. and it will be interesting to know what you call them. you couldn't call them pieces of art, they're more experiential.
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exactly. and they are the sous chefs and the waiters. the food is iraqi and it is delivered to people in chicago. first of all, that is fascinating, but is it art? well, i'm less interested in what people call things. of weirdness and impossibility. to if they were thinking of opening up a restaurant. be good art. or a
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kitchen? wider than just food? of course. a kabob sandwich. you have the perceived enemies on both sides of the conflict. i believe they're using some of your grandmother's recipes? they are, they are. kurdish recipes, assyrian recipes, but all within what was iraq. are very much mixed together.
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of course. restaurant for a while. to time, are you? it was a one—off. from saddam hussein's family household. that in the end, the iraqi government wanted them back. they were amazing. such a broad way, in such a sort of artistic, experiential way? that a
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menu happens. is harvested from. and i wanted to make the diner felld bad. and i wanted to make the dinerfelld bad. the dinerfeel bad. where i've never seen a date palm grow. the culinary experience being like something artistic. and ifeel like when i am making kibbeh, i feel like a sculptor. when i'm making kabob, i
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feel like a sculptor. way of enticing the viewer, enticing the reader. and it works on many different levels. seen as disrespect. sure. i think something that you put on in london a while ago. notorious symbol of his power in iraq.
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monumental sabres in both hands. have turned it into light sabres from star wars. yes. about saddam hussein's iraq, that's disrespect. sure, sure. sculpture i've ever made because... hard for me to get down with. you know, like, it's his hands blown up a0 times. that the iraqis... it's the personification of his tyranny, really.
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it's... and when the soldier... they really used these darth vader helmets? they used them.
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saddam... that has darth vader holding two light sabres over his head. because it's true, you know. toward most of their work. really fit in any of those categories. or the enemy kitchen in chicago. but they only exist in their own time and place. no. you know, you couldn't put them up to auction at sotheby‘s. frankly, you can't really make money or make a living out of them. no. so, are you a commercial artist or not?
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it's not the place that i come from. living inside those buildings. but at the way that markets emerge as a sight specific place. were the ticket out of the country.
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have an antiquity that they may or may not want to talk to about. about iraq, family and memory. heritage and what it's given you, you've never been to iraq. why? like they had to leave and they were heartbroken. but you could go now. i think about that all the time. like a material in
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my work. we're going to go back and we're going to invite you to visit us. and that's how i would do it. and when you do it, we want to talk to you again. inshallah. thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you, stephen, i appreciate it. for some of us. to darker clouds. it will remain very fresh. the temperatures will keep
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on dropping. and the nights will be nippy as well. to come our way, lots of showers, too. for the next few days. across southern areas. from dropping too low. we're talking about 10—12 degrees across the south. degrees, six there in the very far north. across the uk. and some rain later in the morning, spilling into parts of wales. through wales as well. some showers across northern ireland as well.
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and cool in the north, 12 degrees. we're going to get around 15 celsius. system moves away. carrying quite a lot of fresh air. sitting on top of us, and then you get the strong sunshine? and it's going to be a real rush of them on tuesday... on wednesday, that is. from sunshine, to downpours, back to sunshine again. the atlantic, which is here to stay into the weekend as well. and this is normalfor the time of the year. in the north, and that's pretty much what we're
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getting on thursday. and in edinburgh. and again, a mixture of sunshine and showers on thursday. now, this is thejet stream here. airfrom the north. that cool air establishes itself across the
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