tv Dateline London BBC News September 3, 2018 3:30am-4:01am BST
to cross the mediterranean sea to reach europe are facing ever more deadlyjourneys. unhcr says one in 18 people trying to make the crossing now die. in total, some 1,600 are thought to have drowned this year. democrats in the united states have criticised the white house for withholding hundreds of thousands of documents relating to president trump's nominee to the us supreme court. senate hearings on brett kavanaugh‘s nomination are due to begin on tuesday. he must be endorsed by a majority in the senate. firefighters are trying to control a huge blaze which is tearing through brazil's largest and most historic museum. tv pictures are showing much of the national museum in rio de janeiro in flames. the 200—year—old collection contains millions of exhibits and is housed in a former imperial palace. now on bbc news, dateline london. hello and a warm welcome
to dateline london, i'mjane hill. today we discuss whether there is positive news to report about the brexit negotiations, after some striking comments from michel barnier. we ask what is happening inside britain's labour party. and, as autumn campaigning begins in earnest for the us midterms, we look at the state of american politics. with me are the columnist for the independent yasmin alibhai—brown. long—time correspondent for the new york timesjohn fisher burns. from french news magazine, marc roche, who also spent many
years at le monde. and the guardian columnist nisreen malik. is there a glimmer of a brexit deal on the horizon? the eu's chief negotiator michel barnier suggested this week he was prepared to offer britain a partnership such as there had never been with any third country. the markets got very excited at the prospect. then britain's newish secretary of state for exiting the eu, love that title, dominic raab, after talks with michel barnier, said he's stubbornly optimistic that a deal is within reach. so, lots to discuss, marc, you have a book on brexit coming out soon, what your reading of the summer's brexit—related activity? that there will be in agreement and that britain will become a fairly big dangerfor the eu. britain will become? britain will. the new britain coming out of brexit will be. on michel barnier, rejoice.
there will be agreement. michel barnier under pressure from all the governments in the year that are pro—eu. the ports in holland and belgium and france are lobbying to have the deal because there they do not want chaos. there are the exporters, like the german manufacturers who are very interested in the uk market, to keep it. michel barnier himself hopes to replace presidentjuncker because president macron wants the danish commissioner because she is pro—european, a woman, young, she's very good. he wants to come out of history
as the man who solved brexit. so rejoice, rejoice rejoice. i don't think so. by they way, i do not work for the independent. i work for the i newspaper. forgive me. marc, i love your song. i have been reading some of the commentaries since all of this joy and markets and there are quite a lot of serious voices saying he did not mean in the sense that it was taken that it will all be exactly what we want. the irish question remains very strong. i think one of the french ministers said britain is not going to be able to pick the best choice bits and no immigration but yes to free trade. it is not what was made out. you saw the cold water coming down very quickly.
you are all doom and gloom, let's be optimistic. the agreement is in the interests of both parties to reach it. there will be people tweeting this programme already saying we have been saying that for more than a year while you sit to discuss it. john, your take on it. where do you fall in these camps? i think the most significant thing around this table is that marc has changed his position and is now accommodating of our brexit deal. i don't remember over the last couple of years ever hearing you say that before. it is welcome and i think there will be a deal and i felt for very long time will be a deal because has to be be deal. the costs of failure on both sides, as much on the side of the european union as on the side of the uk are too high to contemplate. that is one thing, also. i think events across europe such as the rise of the rights and issues of immigration have changed the landscape in which merkel
and macron are dealing and we can now see the outlines of the deal, and they are not going to lead the irish border which all involves ten or 12 million of the 500 million people in the european union. they are not going to let this founder over that. they will come up with some sort of fudge which may be amended in time. we have ten weeks to go. who was it who said nothing concentrates the mind as a much as the prospect of being hanged in the morning? terrible, we agreed for the first time. i think the term fudge is probably the operative word here. what is going to happen potentially is that i do not think there will be this amazing deal ever was very happy with nor a deal which the british or the eu will be unhappy with. i think what is likely is that
particularly on the irish border because it will be too awkward if not resolved in time there will be a fudge because there is this period after brexit, a moratorium where things can be retroactively edgier do they do not work. even although there is this very hard deadline of about november on things like the irish border because that is 4—5 months before the deadline of march 2019 they can come up with the transitional fudge on what appeared to be unworkable solutions. like the irish border. i do not think they are eminently solvable. it is, yes... there are a lot of practical problems around. there are also too many parties. statements were made around the good friday agreement before it was signed, saying
it was too difficult. it included a lot of fudge which is mostly bought for 20 years swiping to do the solvable problem. you're not talking about the extremists within the tory party. there is an extremist wing in the tory party and we know who they are. they do not want to deal! they want a no—deal exit. but they are very powerful. well, there is one element to that. we were referencing michel barnier. and, itake and, i take your point, marc. it is good to say, well, the man who made it all happen. what about the argument that the eu in the emorphous way, as one single body, does not want to encourage other countries to leave? that is still a psychological problem. you do not want to make it too easy. that has been the argument. indeed, they showed it. even the italians, the fascist italy no reluctance to even mention quitting the eu. i think the message is to have a deal.
we have gone further than that. we can't have in britain a second referendum. iam becoming british. we can't have a second referendum because no parties left or right wanted it, and the public does not want it. no, the public does now. the latest polls show that the public wants it. let's not go down that route. it is three hours of a separate programme. 0n the whole, there would be an agreement. the argument that the eu principle countries don't want to encourage further separations could be turned on its head and say that they want to avoid that in the face of the rise of the right across europe, especially on the issue of immigration, they're going to have to make this less of a straitjacket and make concessions that will encourage people to stay as well as to punish them for leaving. one very quick point. there is this topic of the eu wanting to punish button
so it is harder for other european countries. it is belief by the fact that, the risks of brexit the risk of leaving the eu are very clear within the eternal divisions in the uk. the eu does need to do very little to show it is a bad idea. politically, it has been divisive, racially divisive, and economically it has been really damaging so the way it is played out organically within the uk over the past couple of years practically shows it is a bad idea. the figures that ic don't support that, the recent one was the fdi investment report, 48 hours ago. there was an investment report 48 hours ago that showed that the uk continues even these uncertain times to attract far more foreign direct investment than the
rest of the world. we are seven weeks away from the eu summit in october which is when both sides have said they want to reach an agreement. let us see what happens. we will return to this in subsequent problems. we will be watching, i am telling you, marc. to no avail. he and others don't want britain to feel disenchanted and therefore embrace regressive policies. in britain, what is happening inside her majesty's 0pposition? the row about anti—semitism within labour isn't abating. this week frank field — who's been a labour mp since 1979 and a party memberfor 60 years — resigned from it, citing anti—semitism and a culture of bullying. the deputy leader warned the resignation was a sign of the party's drift, and reflected its deep divisions. yasmin, is his resignation is about more than just anti—semitism, but is tom watson deputy leader right that this is a wake up call? i don't think frank field is a wake—up call. his presence has been problematic. but i will come to that.
i do think the labour party has mishandled the situation. it has let it drift politically for so long. it has become noxious and there is almost no way out of it. i do not know who is advising jeremy corbyn. he is not an anti—semite. that, i believe. the noxious fumes are engulfing the party and in that sense, watson was right. going back to frank field, to see him supposedly martyring himself on this... he has been good on some aspects of business etc but he has been vehemently anti—immigrant for the longest time. in 2008 a bishop in england said he was an enoch powell of our times. the idea that frank field
represented... he is an nativist. he has always been a nativist. i have admired him for something, and i have feared him for a long time. because of the way it has been mishandled the situation will create further flames. do people around the table echo the point that the labour party has allowed the row, however we couch it, about anti—semitism to carry on for too long? we have all been talking about this for a good few months now. it is a distraction, isn't it? i have to say, because he can't speak for himself. the frank field of who you speak is not the frank field that i know, although i do not know him personally. it is not the frank field deeply respected by the many people who served with him in parliament. for eight years he sent e—mails.... he is against immigrants! a broader point about the state of the party. someone who came to his understanding of what underlies
the founding of the state of israel through the television series which is about 14 or 15 hours and akin to a deep understanding. and the poor understanding. i understand there is such sensitivity. i think there are also risks for israel. they need to make sure they are not closing off debate, including debate that does include the right of israel to exist. it is a strong state and it can defend itself so i think that will have to be a compromise. we would like to see the labour party being in opposition meaning have an economic policy. i don't know what it is, except nationalisation. and, on brexit, you know, what is the position of the
labour party on brexit? i think as soon as this issue is solved and labour becoming i think as soon as this issue is solved and labour can becoming the opposition to a week and divisive government. think the anti—semitism issue and the bullying issue are indicative of something much deeper, which is where i share your reservations about frank field, but i do agree with him, that i don't think we should fixate on his personal history on race or nativism or immigration, ido history on race or nativism or immigration, i do think there is a serious bullying issue within the labour party. i have got the brunt of it completely randomly. you know, as a neutral commentator. there is a sense that things are out of control. there is an atmosphere of witchhunts and people are looking for traitors and saboteurs. at the moment if you talk to a certain type of labour activist
about anti—semitism of the tone of bullying the first responses you not care about beating the tory party? the point is we should be about being against tory party and stick together and anybody who descends from that line is seen as traitor and instrumental icing bullying which leads us back to the same position again which is no one taking it seriously enough because they see it all as a way to undermine left and to undermine corbyn and to strengthen the tory government and we're frank field is important, is that he is seen as a traitor because he propped up the conservative party on a vote where he was one of three labour rebels.
i think it is wrong. i am talking about his politics. i think you can say he is a native first. after the la st say he is a native first. after the last election, with the exception of scotland, basically the two parties are dominating the political landscape. we need an opposition because, at the moment, the government is getting away with murder. it ties in with brexit and therefore it will rear its head again. in the us, a new newspaper opinion poll suggests nearly half of americans believe donald trump
should be impeached — the poll was carried out in the week it became clear that two key former staffers, michael cohen and paul manafort, would face prison sentences for financial crimes — with cohen, trump's one—time personal lawyer, implicating the president in election campaign fraud. as we enter september, the midterm elections are just two months away — they will determine whether democrats retake control of congress. john, this isjust one poll, others haven't shown a marked shift since manafort/cohen. . .. what's your reading of the mood in washington? 0bviously, obviously, this is bad news for donald trump and his supporters. the closest thing we have fall by ten plate of this is the last years of richard nixon when he won with a
landslide and was gone within a year and a half. i can see how cullen and manafort, the case building, all of this could build intolerable pressures against trump and i would not be surprised if he gets on a helicopter himself. trump has a pretty large ego. this would be the most serious form of criticism he could face. he mightjudge, if he was uncertain of surviving an impeachment process, that he would do better to leave and build...m reminds me of a quote around the time when margaret thatcher was being challenged before she was deposed. 0ne
being challenged before she was deposed. one of her party members said you cannot hand margaret thatcher a gun, she will shoot you with that. trump will do that. if you hand him a gun, he willjust shoot some people. there is no way that, if he sees the reason potential for impeachment, he would i’ui'i potential for impeachment, he would run straight into it and use the american people and his space to say, look, we came here, if you voted for me and the deep state and the american institutions that are against the common man awaking against the common man awaking against it and that is one of the reasons why it the republican party is so loathed to discuss impeachment and it has been so cowardly on trump and it has been so cowardly on trump and the yellow investigation because if he transmits these back signal, where the american machine are now
usurping your will is not good for anyone. we need to see what is happening with the americans that voted for him. that is most important. the bloated who voted to him say they would do so again. he has delivered a good deal of what he promised. another argument that goes against the usa, is that the economy is working. whether it is from the 0bama era, the tax cuts, the danger is that the democrats, not having really a leader coming out of the woods at the moment, that we might be stuck, at the end of the mandate, with an economy dearly well and the president, although contested, with
a good economy could be elected. that is why the democrats do not necessarily want impeachment. he has already started muttering there would be a civil war. with john mccain's passing and the enormous outpouring across republican and democratic parties across america, struck me that that was very much, although struck me that that was very much, althouthohn mccain struck me that that was very much, although john mccain was a great man, in my view, of the american politicians i have come to know, he would be very high on the list of people i most admired but it seems to me that behind that outpouring of affection, there was a yearning in america to get back to a government that observes the basic moral standards of the republic. that observes the basic moral standards of the republiclj that observes the basic moral standards of the republic. i am not sure i agree. there is too americas
bash the misty america who say they will prevail, and the hero is james comey and the glorification of the cia and fbi. and there is another america which sees trump as a figure ina america which sees trump as a figure in a culture war. this is a man who isa in a culture war. this is a man who is a lightning rod for their resentments, economic, racial, personal. and that is something you cannot defuse via politics. it is a straight line psychologically between him and the base and it is not about politics, right or left, but these grievances at that trump validates the people and that is the difficulty. what will be the
democrats '? they need a culture warrior. a type of clinton, a man who can relate to this working—class, white or black, working—class, white or black, working—class and he seemed lost facing these issue of automation, loss ofjobs. facing these issue of automation, loss of jobs. america has a long history of come with the power come of the man. —— hour. bill clinton was his way when nixon climbed on the helicopter. i suspect that there is somebody. somebody will emerge who will offer the prospect of returning america to its mind. this
idea that, if we go back to how things go before trump that everything will be ok, i think that something has been broken permanently and democrats need to start reaching out to the people who lost it for them and double down on identity politics. which is something they have been accused of never did it properly. they need to reach down to blacks, if his panics, women, immigrants. —— hispanics. if you look at the people who voted for trump, what swung it to him was not white coalminers, it was people who we re white coalminers, it was people who were earning, lawyer 's, university professors. this idea that there is the heartland of the democrats left behind and they need to win them backis behind and they need to win them back is erroneous. if people get
fixed on the idea of returning to pre— trump politics, the democrats reforming a relationship, i think it isa reforming a relationship, i think it is a dead. let's hope america find some salvation. all of us sitting around these table relies so heavily on america economically and morally. 50 years of chaos. he has converted to optimism perhaps we can begu as well. more passionate debate next week. the midterms are two months away, the summit in october. plenty to discuss this autumn and plenty of passionate debate. join us next week. thank you for watching. bye— bye. it is turning cooler. cloud, some
patchy rain. heavy in south—east scotland. still some warm sunny spells in the east and south—east of england. some sunshine in northern ireland and north—west scotland. on the cold side, the temperatures are not too special. the wind and lighter compared to the weekend. it teaches the morning, the weather front with barely any rain left continues to slowly edged further east. against the north, quite chilly under clear skies. temperatures into double figures we
have the cloud. cloud in parts of england and wales on tuesday but hardly any rain left on it. the kool—aid continuing to filter further south. —— the cooler air. welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. my name is nkem ifejika. our top stories: brazil's national museum goes up in flames. the country's president calls the loss incalculable. deadly journeys. the un says more migrants are dying in the mediterranean, and calls on european leaders to act. hundreds of thousands of documents witheld. is the white house hiding details of president trump's pick for the supreme court? and a verdict is expected in the case of two myanmar journalists on trial after investigating killings by the security forces.