this is bbc news. the headlines: the white house has officially refused to co—operate with the impeachment inquiry against president donald trump. in a letter sent to democratic party leaders, it rejected the inquiry as "baseless" and "constitutionally invalid". it's already refused to allow a key figure to appear. three democratic—led house committees are investigating the president. as the eu accuses britain of playing a "blame game" over brexit, ireland's prime minister leo varadkar says he'll "work until the very last moment to try to secure a deal" by next week, but "not at any cost". turkey has boosted its military positions on the border with syria after saying it's ready for a long—threatened operation that could target kurdish forces, long—time allies to the us. it comes after the us began withdrawing troops from the region. president trump has defended his decision again, saying the kurds had
not been abandoned. it is about liz30am. now on bbc news, it's hardtalk with stephen sackur. welcome to hardtalk, i am stephen sackur. rock music inhabits a world of permanent revolution. today's biggest bands will most likely be tomorrow's tired old has—been. but just occasionally, artists and groups find a way of reinventing themselves and outlasting the co nsta nt themselves and outlasting the constant fluctuations in fashion and taste. made yesterday knows plenty about surviving the highs and lows ofa about surviving the highs and lows of a music career, brett anderson's band suede was how does the future of rock ‘n‘ roll back in the early 90s. they are still making music a generation after britpop ceased to bea thing. generation after britpop ceased to be a thing. so what keeps him going?
brett anderson, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. a pleasure to be here. you've just thank you very much. a pleasure to be here. you'vejust written thank you very much. a pleasure to be here. you've just written your second memoir which takes us right through your music career. and throughout it you appear to be almost painfully aware of the danger of being some sort of rock cliche. would you say that is fair? yeah, very much the starting point from the book was to sort of subvert the tired cliche of the sort of well travelled story we are aware of. i think every rock career is basically
the same story. it's a story of struggle, success, access and disintegration, and then if you are lucky, you kind of arrive at a point of some sort of self reflection or awareness at what you've been through. but i wanted to write a story about good as that wasn't about the cliches, that was more about the cliches, that was more about the cliches, that was more about the kind of, an investigation into the machinery, the fame machine, the success machine, and what that does to people and what they did to me especially. are you doing it out of a spirit of sort of regret, even resentment at that machinery and the way it used you? no, not at all. i'm very aware the machinery is actually a moral, that it doesn't have an opinion, it doesn't have a consciousness. it's just something that happens to people. and the last thing i wanted to do with the book is sort of point fingers and blame anything, really, to be honest. you know, if there is any villain in the story, it's myself, it's my own kind of,
ineptitude and my own, my own lack of understanding of how the machinery works. so it's certainly not blaming anyone. let's begin at the beginning. because it is fascinating. in yourfirst the beginning. because it is fascinating. in your first book, called blaak morning, you chose not to write about the music business at all, but brett anderson's childhood, about being brought up in a relatively poor home. but in a relatively poor home. but in a relatively prosperous part of the south—east of england. that sort of weird juxtaposition. it does seem that actually the relative poverty of your parents and your upbringing had a huge impact throughout your life? i was born into a sort of poor family, there was —— they were poor ina family, there was —— they were poor in a materialistic sense, but very rich culturally. my father was an obsessive classical music fan, obsessed with friends list. my mother was an artist. we lived in this council house, we'd be listening to sort of wagner and
stuff like that. there was always a feeling of outsiderdom. we didn't fit into the waiter, middle—class world that my parents' aspirations seem to covertly aimed toward. was that way you were so desperate to get away and make it as a rock ‘n' roll star at an early age? fear of poverty is a huge motivator. fear of poverty is a huge motivator. fear of poverty continues to be the reason why i carry on doing this. but the ability to express yourself. maybe you saw yourself in bog music because it was than in the mid—— late 80s —— pop music, you saw a space you could occupy. yeah, i think i saw a space... i looked at the rock world and it didn't seem to me that anyone was really speaking about their lives. it seems to me they were speaking about what i
would call rock speak. they were talking in terms of rock cliches. they were, you know, it was, it was songs about elevating one's souls and phrases that seep into the rock lack sonography. if i may, and phrases that seep into the rock lack sonography. ifi may, also, interestingly, a lot of musicians in the uk were looking to america for their inspiration. you absolutely never wanted to do that from the very beginning. i wanted to write about the world i saw around me, whichjust happens about the world i saw around me, which just happens to be about the world i saw around me, whichjust happens to be england. it happens to be london, it happened to be kind of a very sort of marginal, sort of disaffected sort of side of early 90s london, we were living on the dole, all these sorts of things. i wanted to write about that well because that was the world that was real to me. i didn't want to write about kind of, you know, some imaginary sort of fantasy of california or anything like that.
your problem was that it was tapping a vein of personal experience which a vein of personal experience which a lot of people didn't seem very interested in. i mean spent years on the circuit, pubs and clubs in london in the mid— 80s, early 90s, not really getting anywhere. at one point you say, and this an anecdote, in south london we played to one person. yes, absolutely. butl in south london we played to one person. yes, absolutely. but i think as an artist you need to go through that period of struggle because you are kind of, you are sort of finding out who you are. and you're also like the mahoning your craft as well. but bands that get picked up too early in their career and have a hit early or something like that, they are given enough time to develop and grow and suede very much at that time to develop and grow because we were incredibly unfashionable. and also, we weren't very good as well. laughter you say "we were actually pretty terrible. was not the only guy that
was good, the guy you hired to be lead guitar, bernard. is the only proper musician in the band, bernard. ineptitude, there is nothing kind of, people are fearful of ineptitude and i think you said inafunny of ineptitude and i think you said in a funny sort of way embrace it. it helps you learn and i'm glad that we spent three years playing rubber songs to two people in pubs because it sort of gave us a bit of character —— rubbish songs, and find out who we were. let'sjust play a clip of you guys in that magic year when you broke through in 1993 playing the truck so young. let's have a look. —— the truck. ‘so young' plays
ido i do love watching you watching you, it is sorta fascinating. i do love watching you watching you, it is sorta fascinatinglj i do love watching you watching you, it is sorta fascinating. i don't know what was going with my hair there. i hadn't was that for four weeks. i did want to ask you, you projected an image, which i think was very deliberately androgynous to an extent. it certainly wasn't matching the sort of macho stereotype of most rock ‘n' roll lead singers. no. and you talked a lot about sexuality and some of your songs dealt with the darker sides of sex. what were you trying to do with your sexuality and your songs about
sexuality? yeah well, first of all, i think good pop music has always had a strong sexual side. you know, my favourite pop songs and favourite rock songs, there is always a kind of like a murky sort of pay—out big sort of side to them. but secondly, i think sort of side to them. but secondly, ithinki sort of side to them. but secondly, i think i was trying to, even though the phrase didn't exist then, there was a sort of sexual fluidity that i was a sort of sexual fluidity that i was going to express —— priapic sort of side to them. coming forward to the generation we have today, it is absolutely prevalent. but it looks backin absolutely prevalent. but it looks back ina absolutely prevalent. but it looks back in a sense, a bit like david bowen. does in a sense, but i wasn't trying to. i think that is more of a kind of androgyny that was never there. and suddenly, i wasn't trying to lie, i wasn't trying to parody those things. i think people sort of tended to misinterpret it out the time. there was a kind development of sexual fluidity, with some kind of sexual fluidity, with some kind
of proud that the bad song about in those days —— that the band. there was a strong side of ladism that led through the 90s, especially 1994, through the 90s, especially 1994, through corporatania and those sorts of things. you were associated, called the pioneer of britpop. along came 0asis called the pioneer of britpop. along came oasis and blur. do you mind being associated with those things? no—one likes being labelled, it limits you. someone else telling you what you are. i think every artist likes to think they are bigger than that, i suppose. i suppose it goes back to the beginning of this conversation. the machinery behind the music industry, in a sense you we re the music industry, in a sense you were being packaged as part of a sort of young generation of dynamic and energetic bands who are going to sweep the world with the school british pop music. yeah was that i dissociated myself from that very early on, though. as soon as i saw
what i saw as becoming this kind of lattes jingoistic kind of cartoon, which became britpop, i very quickly distanced suede from that. —— this kind of laddish. was there singing plumbers? well, i might have said that years ago, i am not going to sort of try and justify things they set a long, long time ago. i think, you know, didn't make us look snobby? probably. you may make some m ista kes snobby? probably. you may make some mistakes along the way, i'm not perfect. you know what i mean? you just go with your instincts. and i saw what was happening with britpop and for me it felt quite distasteful. it felt nationalistic, it felt like there was a sort of strong thread of misogyny, i didn't think suede should be a part of that. i fear you have found it quite difficult to talk about the internal dynamics of the band because it is
physically say that bands they get great success then start inviting and there's all sorts of tensions in the fall apart. but the truth is suede had its share. yeah, absolutely and as we referred to, probably the best musician in the group, butler left having delivered an ultimatum to you others that he wa nted an ultimatum to you others that he wanted to control the band and you wouldn't have that. your girlfriend left even earlier, justine, she was an integral part of the first wave of suede. yes. it sort of like a maximum intensity family, living in a band? yeah, you are absolutely right. the parallel is a family where you are incredibly close to these people and you span an intense amount of time with them doesn't expand, and you get to know them with a depth that you can only equate with how you get to know your family. you spend a lot of downtime with them, which is a really key
thing. you know, you spend a lot of time hanging around, sitting around, smoking, these sorts of things. yeah, it does become like an extension of the family and lots of ways. but you're right, all of the cliches but you're right, all of the thatis that is a band when you first start, that is a band when you first start, that you're very aware of, you think we are going to fall into the trap because we're better than that. spinal tap, the absurdity of that. but then again, i always think i don't give myself too hard a time about that because it's life. well, eve ryo ne about that because it's life. well, everyone knows that people kind of like split up and get depressed and all of these traps that you fall into when life stops but everyone — it doesn't mean people stop, do they? it still happens. it's part of human nature. it's like human nature, but kind of magnified. are just a point where you and bernard found it so difficult to be in the same room at the same time that you can be in the same studio together, you would be literally posting because that's to each other. yeah, it got kind of, you know, sticky, for a while. but the ——
relationships break down, and it's what happens with bands and people. i think the thing is to remember is that this happened when we were in our you know, early, that this happened when we were in ouryou know, early, mid 20s, in those days you don't have the kind of, you don't have the social skills of, you don't have the social skills of the kind of life skills to deal with that. your young man, thrown into this sort of cauldron of kind of success, ambition, money, all of these beings are thrown at you. it makes you, it makes you kind of erratic. it makes you imbalance. and you certainly don't have the life skills to be able to deal with it. and grief. i'm guessing, i don't know how expose you been about this, but i'm guessing, well busily when just in left, but also bernard, there must be grief when you lose a ben may —— just in. there must be grief when you lose a ben may -- just in. yes. it has
happened to me several times. very close members of my band that have left. it is a terrible thing to overcome. as a young man you left. it is a terrible thing to overcome. as a young man you kind of areas and deal with it in your own way. it's only now, being able to write this book, i'm able to look at these relationships, kind of clear eyed,in these relationships, kind of clear eyed, ina these relationships, kind of clear eyed, in a more objective way that you realise how effective you are by the separation. let's be honest, you made things worse for yourself, or more difficult, in those respects, they also turning to drugs in a very big way. again, without wishing to indulge in all the sort of rock cliches of talking to rock musicians about their drug habits, you are very frank about the degree to which you got stuck in a spiral. absolutely. is addict the right word for what you were? i suppose so. it is difficult to say. that's getting technical, i suppose. again, with
great frankness you have written about the moment which was the very worst of this. i think it was in 1999 when you and your girlfriend we re 1999 when you and your girlfriend were having a binge... yes. and she... was this with crack cocaine? yeah. and she nearly died. yeah. it was terrific for supper try not to glorify anything, but i'm kind of clear eyed about it ——it was horrific for everybody. i'm trying not to romanticise it in my own way, but i suppose by virtue of the fact that i'm talking about i'm romanticising it in some way. that i'm talking about i'm romanticising it in some waym doesn't come across that way. it comes across as profoundly painful ina way comes across as profoundly painful in a way that is still with you. and a kind of regret that period deeply for supper at i think it led to, looking at an overview of the band, it kind of destroyed the band. it is what led to us eventually splitting
up. i think, what led to us eventually splitting up. ithink, most what led to us eventually splitting up. i think, most relevantly, what led to us eventually splitting up. ithink, most relevantly, it led toa up. ithink, most relevantly, it led to a dearth of ideas, because that's what drugs will do to you. addiction aside and all of these sorts of things, these things that grab the headlines, as a songwriter you kind of, you don't care about anything else except the substance that you are chasing. so your songwriting, your writing becomes secondary. i became the kind of... they started writing... eye drifted into a period of self—parody as a writer. and they really regret that. that had effects that led onto us splitting up, i think. interestingly, if we then moved forward a bit, that level of regret any feeling that you had missed out on years of creativity with people that you cared about, was that a big driving force in making you decide that a reunion, which again is a bit of a rock cliche, was actually something worth trying, because you felt you hadn't finished you could have achieved? that's exactly it. there was a sense
that suede split up on a kind of bum note. that we finished before we should have done and that we didn't, we didn't sort of explode in this kind of riot of glory. we finished ona kind of riot of glory. we finished on a bit ofa kind of riot of glory. we finished on a bit of a whimper. i think one of the motivating reasons, the main motivating reasons to re— form, was because we had unfinished business. let's look at a second clip. this fascinates me, this idea that you can find new ways of telling stories that you told before in your 20s but then you come back to the stories in your 40s. let's look at the royal albert hall, a famous suede concert, i think the first from your reunion tour. let's look at that.
music plays. it's electric, actually, watching that. thanks. it was a really special night. and whenever people ask me of my favourite gig of my whole career, actually imagine that one. because there's something really special about that. we didn't quite know how it would be received and had been away for such a long
time... it is a risk. just like putting your albums out is a risk, because the critics are going to be tempted to say, here you are, milking it for another payday, going through the same old routine... the paydays aren't quite as big as they used to be in the old days, eye can assure you of that. what gets me is the level of energy, you feel from that, you can't fake it. and yet i'm just wondering if you, as an artist, really wa nt just wondering if you, as an artist, really want to keep touring, keep doing, that was animal night raid, one of your most successful songs, keep wheeling out the old songs, when you are clearly focused on writing new stuff —— nitrate. when you are clearly focused on writing new stuff -- nitrate. the only reason uncomfortable with playing old songs is because we still write new music. can be one of these bands that is sort of a nostalgia act and goes through the hits. we spent the last eight years making new albums and making kind of like increasingly strange left—field
from a different perspective. i'm a married man, i'm a father... a rather comfortable middle—aged man, with a big family, living in a co mforta ble with a big family, living in a comfortable house. can make us creative energy music?” comfortable house. can make us creative energy music? i think there is an oversimplification to look at someone's life and see it and think they can't write about... and to think there isn't uncomfortable moments within that life. every life has moments of paranoia and anxiety and all of these sorts of things. so what to i feel the most passionate about these days? i feel the most passionate about my family. so the last couple of albums i've written have been very much about my family and fear of losing my family. in the last album i wrote was called the blue hour. it was the narrative theme about the loss of a child. it
was songs about that narrative call. so it's about looking for these kind of motifs in different parts of your life. the last thing of want to do is to try to chase some sort of vision of myself that i had from the early 1990s, when i'm sort of trying to be who used to be. you've got to look for different versions of yourself. does it matter to you whether suede, in the end, upward by the critics, or even the public, which is more important, in that group of rock acts whose work endures, they doesn'tjust exist in the moment it was made, but actually has relevance and meaning far beyond that? i think there's always two artists, every artist eventually gets a split into two artists. there's always a that you inhabit the world that when you first appeared on the scene and is a sense that you're always... the way that
the public perceive you as a second time almost. and then there's a second artist who carries on beyond that kind of thing. so it's difficult say, really. you know, one carries on making music because it's incredibly vital and exciting to me, don't quite know how i'm going to be perceived in a wider sense. but you're not going to stop? i'm not going to stop. brett anderson, it has been a pleasure having you on. thank you very much indeed. they really enjoyed that. hello there. it was a fairly unsettled day on tuesday. we saw plenty of showers across northern and western areas. and a few got across into the east that were pretty heavy and thundering in one or two spots. but there was plenty
of sunshine too. the next few days, similar story, staying rather unsettled with low pressure nearby, and it's going to be windy for most. on wednesday, low pressure again to the north of the uk. fairly strong winds, plenty of showers blowing from west to east. and then for thursday and friday, looks like we could see more organised weather fronts pushing in to bring more persistent rain for some areas. if you were watching yesterday, like i mentioned, it's not going to be particularly cold the next few days as our air source will be coming in off the atlantic from the west or the south—west. the night shouldn't be too cold either. for wednesday then, it starts off bright, some sunshine across eastern areas. we'll have a scattering of heavy, perhaps thundery showers affecting south wales, southern counties of england through the day, and lots of showers will be piling into western scotland. and the winds strong, particularly across the west and when the showers come along, gusting 30, maybe 40mph in exposed spots. temperature wise, a few degrees down on what we had on tuesday.
that is the low teens across scotland, northern ireland, maybe 14 or 15 across the south and the east. now, through wednesday night, it stays blustery. lots of showers again across northern and western areas. some of them merging together to produce longer spells of rain here. but we could see some drier interludes or long clear spells across central and eastern part of the country. those temperatures dipping down from 7 to 10 degrees. so, on into thursday then, we've got low pressure to the north—east of the uk. next system pushing in with more active weather fronts could bring more persistent rain to parts of the country, like i mentioned. so i think we'll start off fairly cool, bright, plenty of sunshine around. to the west, thicker cloud and this front will bring more persistent rain to northern ireland and into scotland through the day but again, further south will be sunshine and showers, mainly across wales and the south—west of england. but a few spots will see some hazy sunshine. those temperatures back up again. 17 degrees will be the high. lots of weather fronts on the chart. you'll see on friday some uncertainty to where these fronts will actually be. it could be that warmer parts of the north—west of scotland to bring outbreaks of rain here. another one may move south—east across england and wales to bring a spell of persistent rain. some sunshine in between. those temperatures up a notch again,
this is the briefing, i'm sally bundock. our top stories: as the eu accuses the uk of a brexit blame game, ireland's prime minister warns finding any agreement won't be easy. the white house has officially refused to co—operate with the impeachment inquiry against president trump, claiming it's unconstitutional. in the latest in our series looking at the legacy of the soviet union, our correspondent travels to the former east germany. the new boss of the international monetary fund tells the bbc global trade tensions from the us—china row to a no—deal brexit will cost the global economy $700 billion next year.