tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg March 19, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm EDT
from the centerleft zionist union, isaac herzog. exit polls showed herzog and netanyahu in a dead heat. completed returns showed decisive victory for netanyahu. earlier today, he pledged to work to form a new government, declaring that, " our country's everyday reality does not give us the luxury for delay." joining me now from berlin, via phone, jeffrey goldberg. he is a national correspondent for "the atlantic magazine." from jerusalem, ari shavit, a columnist and author of "my promised land." yossi halevi is a fellow and author of "like dreamers." from tel aviv, ronen bergman, a senior military correspondent. in washington, yousef manayyer a palestinian american author and executive director of the u.s. campaign to end the israeli occupation. here with me in new york, lisa
goldman. she is the israel palestine fellow at the new america foundation. i begin first, ronen, with you. tell me, because we only have 10 minutes on the satellite with you, and i want to get you an early, tell me what happened in this election. ronen: i think that this was not a vote for netanyahu. he is not a magician. i think people dislike him in israel. hishe lost much of the trust. the final result just proved that this is a right wing nation. most of the people belong to the far right or central right, and people believe after 20 years of failed peace process there is no thing at the other side. the defiance of the u.s. government, bringing iran to the top priority to the agenda,
radicalizing his views, taking off the mask for his right-wing approach, denouncing his own support for a two state solution all led to a magnified mentality and at the end of the day it is worse for him, not because of his personality, but because of his theology. charlie: what happened? ari: this was a referendum on benjamin netanyahu. he won big time. he is perceived as the only presidential figure that they have attempted to replace and failed. sadly fear one over -- won over hope. the blame is not only on netanyahu. the blame is to put on all of us because we did not address
the legitimate fears of the majority of israelis. we did not address the fact that piece attempts have failed. we wanted to believe israelis have to believe in a utopian piece, which they do not. as result of that, by not dealing with the fears of israelis, our collective traumas, we played into the hands of the extreme right and we enabled netanyahu to manipulate those fears and bring about a troubling israel. charlie: the future of israel jeffrey, from berlin following as closely as you do, what happened? jeffrey: i think netanyahu is a guy who knows what he is doing. i'm not attaching a value to that. he knows how to manipulate voters to get what he wants. he did not grow his right wing base. he cannibalized votes from other
right wing parties people who had split off with his party in frustration sometimes with him by making two moves that were bold and consequential. the first was to renounce his support for a two state solution, which is going to have enormous consequences not only in the peace process that in u.s. israeli relations. he convince people it was safe to come back to him. the second piece which is more disturbing is that he played the southern strategy, the southern card, israel style by appealing scaring his base, by literally going out and saying the arabs are voting in droves, so you better get to the polls because
the arabs are voting. that was a very kind of layout water move, the introduction of an american politics that we associate with the south in israel. that may have a longer lasting consequence. he can always walk back is the noun ch and of the two state solution and say that is not what i really meant. that is another question. but on the israeli arab front, that is going to have some long-term impact. guest: i think israelis were confronted with a very hard choice. the prospect of a narrow right-wing coalition, thoughtful israelis realized it will lead to greater isolation. on the other hand a narrow left-wing coalition would likely lead to an undermining of israel's deterrence in the
middle east a weakening of israel's position on iran especially israel's willingness to confront president obama on this imminent deal so it israelis were confronted on the one hand with isolation, on the other hand with weakness. the public chose to take the risk of isolation. charlie: ari: yossi: yousef:? yousef: a shift of the direction, parties that have been associated with the center or left, have themselves moved to the right in terms of their positions, the palestinians. but i think most importantly, what we saw confirmed by the israeli electorate not just in the results of the election but during the campaign, the
occupation is simply not a matter of concern to the average is really. this is a state that rules over the lives of 4.5 million people through military occupation. there are routine human rights abuses featured in this military occupation. the major scandals in israeli politics are about the price of cottage cheese and with the prime minister's wife did with money she had. until the israeli electric cares about -- israeli electric cares about the human rights crisis their state presides over we are unlikely to see any change from within. that has been a trend reconfirmed by this. charlie: i want to come back to that. let me get lisa. lisa: first of all, i have been saying that i was certain netanyahu would be reelected. charlie: why? lisa: the numbers were in his favor, and the primary opposition did not offer an
alternative plan. the economy is a big issue for average israelis. the most popular viral campaigns being shared on social media focused on not being able to make a living, on the cost of living and low salaries. so that was why a lot of the analysts looked at the massive positive response to the clips and said that is what the voter cares about, buying an apartment and make it through the end of the month. israel has the widest wage gaffe -- wage gap. in the end, what really happened was netanyahu launched into -- willlee atwater tactics. that is a clever point. what he did was classic populist
campaign techniques. charlie: i want to go to ronen on that point. did the prime minister win the election or did herzog lose this election because they did not make the case that they needed to make? ronen: yes. it is like playing soccer in front of an empty fields. netanyahu was vulnerable. they did not offer an alternative agenda on most of the topics. they did not put the occupation something that could threaten israel, i do not believe even if they would have run a better campaign it would change the results significantly. the only time in the recent three decades when the labour party won a clear victory was in 1992 by prime.
the reason was a combination between the despair of the israeli public from the palestinian uprising and economic crisis. i think the only way, and i am not calling for that, but the only way that the results of the next election would change would be if the international boycott against israel would gain momentum, and the israelis would see in their own pocket, and their own financial capabilities. any other scenario, we will have benjamin netanyahu being the prime minister again and again. charlie: what do you fear most for the future of israel? ronen: we are going to witness another clash of violence because the palestinians especially after seeing these results, and becoming campaign of settlements, are going to be resolved in another eruption.
the world is fed up with occupation. and the station of israel, with economic sanctions, are going to be next while the american administration, and this is something in result for benjamin netanyahu, is going to be able to step aside and do nothing to prevent this from happening and defend israel. charlie: thank you. i know you have to go. tell me what you fear the most, we are looking now at netanyahu to build a coalition into-three weeks. where does he go? ari: let me tell you what i fear. i do fear that we will see a deterioration. we may see a great political battle and got for bid violence. right now there is no horizon for a positive process. i feel a process rather than launch a two state dynamic that
would lead to a two state state that will lead to a two state solution. we will end up in one state dynamics that are endangering israel morally and politically. i also fear for israel's own soul. this was a battle for israel's soul. we see dark forces in israel. i think they are a minority. they are energetic minority. a there is a failure to mobilize and inspire. we did not go through the process you went through with bill clinton. for a long time we did not only -- we don't have a bill clinton. we did not bring clintonianism. i think this is a challenge not only to talk about netanyahu and
the right, this is a challenge to liberal democratic israelis, and it is a challenge to the international community. only if you bring about a new kind of realistic peace process that addresses the middle east chaos, look at tunisia, and addresses the failures of the peace process and then allows and demand the israelis to bring about the benign side of our life israel is fundamentally a benign democracy. this is endangered in a serious way. i hope this will be a wake-up call, that we will not go into despair. we will see this crisis as an opportunity to relaunch a moral offensive to save israel soul. charlie: what do you think? jeffrey: he has made a number of important points. this is a volatile situation. it is a dynamic situation. israeli society is plastic.
there is no reason to think these trends are immutable. the important thing to remember out of this election is that the right didn't really expand its base. it is true the left is continuing to shrink. ari: is onto something. one of the dynamics that is so interesting to me is that a lot of what is going on is about the magnification of fear, not only of iran, but fear of barack obama, the dysfunctions and that relationship do impact on israeli voting decision-making. so, that dynamic will come to an end at a certain point. i believe that this next government is going to be a fragile government. we could be looking at elections in a year. assuming there is a narrow right-wing government. this is an unsteady coalition.
a narrow coalition. we could be looking at elections again. one of the unspoken or less talked about stories is that the labour party has come back in a strong way. 24 seats. herzog did not run a flawless campaign by any means but there is an appetite for what he was talking about. the opposition, they are not going to be make the mistake of going through a national government it seems. lisa: i don't agree there is going to be an explosion of violence in the west bank. i spent a lot of time in the west bank, and it is locked down. i just don't see it on the horizon. i also don't see any kind of positive message coming from the centerleft zionist union or zionist camp, what i do see is
something interesting, a phenomenon that we have not touched on, the third-largest party is the party represents the palestinian citizens of israel, 20% of the population is israel -- is palestinian. they currently hold 14 seats. the head of that party has been preaching very compelling lines of civil rights and democracy and equal rights for all citizens. he is a charismatic guy. a 40-year-old attorney. he has captured imaginations. this is unprecedented for the third-largest party to be a party that represents the palestinian citizens. charlie: let me go back to yousef:. yousef: we've had enough of the politics of fear. if i am concerned about anything
it is the effect of the extremely hostile rhetoric of the israeli prime minister against palestinian citizens of israel. like myself. whether that will lead to a tax of members of that community. i would disagree with others who think this is born out of an election year tactic this is really about zionism. as a palestinian citizen i have been a demographic threat to the state of israel since i was born. this is the language used to talk about not just the palestinians in the west bank and gaza palestinian citizens of israel. charlie: you know the obama administration well. what impact do you think this election will have on how they view their own options? jeffrey: this is a liberating moment for the obama administration.
particularly on the palestinian issue. let me address the iran issue. the relations are so dysfunctional and so confrontational, netanyahu will not get the hearing he wants to get in washington, and that is not to israel's benefit on what is coming down the pike. i get the sense, doing reporting today, what they are thinking about in the white house is more the palestinian issue than the iran issue. for several years, the obama administration has been arguing to european allies let's not internationalize this conflict let's not bring it to the u.n. the two parties have to negotiate together. now you have the prime minister repudiating the two state solution. that is a signal that it can't
help its european allies. let's move, we're going to keep this as a matter for direct negotiations. one of the parties now says it no longer wants to negotiate a two state solution. at the u.n. in the coming months it would not be surprising to see the u.s. list the diplomatic equivalent of the iron dome rocket system. the diplomatic iron dome is something that has been as effective in its own way for the past several years. it has protected israel at the u.n., a quarter of the members are local majority states. the u.s. has been the protector. i'm not sure they are going to be interested in playing protector. it's argument has been taken away. guest: this scenario will put
the obama administration in confrontation not only with netanyahu, but with a strong majority of israelis. most israelis believe several things about the middle east. one is a palestinian state, and that is very important for yousef: to hear. most believe that a palestinian state under current conditions of a disintegrating middle east would cause an existential threat. if netanyahu says yes to a state in principle, he will have a majority a strong majority of israelis with him. if at the same time the obama administration consummates a deal that formalizes iran's status as a nuclear threshold state, then we are entering into
a two-pronged confrontation tween jerusalem and washington. here again, netanyahu will have strong support. david grossman, the israeli novelist, and the conscience of the israeli left said that the obama administration's policy on iran is criminally naïve. if that is what we are hearing from david grossman, virtually across the board, there is a sense that the administration is moving in a very dangerous direction and netanyahu will enjoy the support of the public. charlie: i have to end it there. thank you very much. it is an area election. when you look ahead all of us will be fascinated to see
charlie: helen mirren is here. she is an academy award-winning actor's. -- actress. she stars on broadway as the queen. the play is called "the audience ." it offers a private conversation between queen elizabeth and her prime ministers. it is a touching portrait of power and majesty. she stars in a film called "woman in gold." she plays a woman who proclaims the art that was stolen from her family during world war ii. >> you are of the law your. how is he? i need advice from someone i can trust. can't you help me? >> there is no on the side. this is a full-time job. >> here she is. my aunt.
painted by gustav klimt. she was taken off the walls of our home by the nazis. since then she has been hanging in vienna. >> and you would like to be reunited. >> wouldn't that be lovely? >> you think the painting that ends up as a fridge magnet will leave austria? >> it would be a mistake not to take a look. >> i never thought i would come back. that is our home on my wedding night. half of the analysts here. >> welcome. >> they are going to put as many obstacles in your way as possible. >> i could have surged on my own. >> i wasn't going to miss all the fun. this is a james bond film and you are sean connery. >> the painting belongs to her family. >> she is the mona lisa of
austria. >> they destroyed my family. they killed my friends. they forced me to abandon the places i love. i will not let them humiliate me again. >> we are taking the austrian government to court. have a nice day. >> there is no way you are going to win. >> you have thwarted me and closed the doors. >> this is a moment in history. >> once the path has been put right we will not have come here in vain. people see a masterpiece by one of austria's finest artists. i see a picture of my aunt. a woman who used to talk to me about life. we should be reunited. charlie: i am pleased to have
dame helen mirren back. welcome. helen: thank you. charlie: we have much to talk about. is there any similarity between these two men women? helen: the queen and maria altmann? yes. they both have a sense -- maria more than the queen may be, a sense of refinement and elegance, and self-discipline. and fierce and is. maria may be more than elizabeth. i think there are similarities. maria would have made a great claim. -- great queen. charlie: they both know who they are. helen: yes. very different because maria was ripped away from her roots, her memories, her youth. maria altmann had her youth
taken away by the nazis. and indeed her family and her memories. that is why this klimt painting was so important. it represented family and memories. the queen of the united kingdom is exactly where she was born where she grew up charlie:. but she knows who she is, and she knows the role she has inherited. helen: absolutely. yes. that fell upon her in a way she inherited it. she wasn't born to be the queen. she was born to be the queen's niece. charlie: her father's brother was supposed to be the king. helen: exactly. her uncle abdicated. suddenly she is in the spotlight. charlie: you are busy. you have lots of opportunities. when peter morgan calls you up peter, who you know. helen: he e-mailed me.
he said i have written a play. i would like you to look at it. it is about the queen. i e-mailed back. [laughter] i knew that he knew. i knew that he knew. in the end, i will have to do it. i was so cross. charlie: you said no, then you said yes. you solve them in a room, the writer and director. helen: the writer, the director stephen dollar, bob croley i saw robert fox, one of the greatest producers. just be read to -- don't be ridiculous, you are in your going to walk away from this? [indiscernible] charlie: you knew peter from your previous work.
is it easier to play her on film or on stage? does it matter? helen: it does matter. doing a movie, the film was the first time that i had done it. that anybody had done on that scale. the implications of it were terrifying. how it might be received, what flak we might receive. the second time we know now, those things are accepted. maybe in a way, in film, it is a different animal anyway. on the stage they go backwards and forward in time with age. the essence of the queen may be harder on film. you have to have that working. charlie: the interesting thing
about the play, let's tell them, every week, tuesday? the queen meets with the prime minister. helen: for 20 minutes. no longer, just so the prime minister lets her know what is going on politically. but it is a completely sacrosanct space. they never talk about what they talked about. charlie: and there is no one else in the room. helen: and it is not bugged. charlie: we think. helen: we hope. but, it is completely and utterly private. it is one of the few places either of them can feel secure in the fact that no matter what they say it will not go any further. charlie: peter had to imagine. helen: peter imagines everything. but, the only thing the prime minister's have said is they thought they could say things to the queen they couldn't say to anyone else.
she is in a position of knowledge. at the same time she has to keep her mouth shut. they felt free with her in a way that became a kind of a shrink. charlie: you see her going from churchill to cameron. churchill, she was 26 years old. who had been a friend of the royal family. helen: absolutely. he must've been very present. yes, absolutely. charlie: and her attitude had to be a certain sense of awe, but she was the queen. helen: yes. of course. that early scene where she is young, she doesn't know what she is doing, and he is training her. i love that. charlie: stephen has said that the queen is the most invisible public woman in the world. helen: yes.
as we say at the end, the invisibility required to execute the most visible job in the world. it is true. that constantly on the public stage, you can't afford. in the end that was the great problem with diana. she couldn't sublimate herself. all of her emotions had to be out there. with elizabeth, she has trained her self over many years, it is not about me. it is not about me. i'm a symbol. charlie: soon she will be the longest-serving monarch succeeding overcoming queen victoria. you think she will die in office. helen: oh, she has to. yes. charlie: meaning that is how she perceives the role. helen: that is how the role is.
they don't abdicate. just because it is hard. charlie: we thought that about popes. helen: we did. but one does. charlie: speaking of another. helen: that is the sense in the royal family, you do not abdicate. you carry on until it is your time to go. and even then, it is interesting. you don't mourn the passing of the old king, you celebrate the arrival of the new monarch. charlie: how well do you know her? helen: not at all. i've met her. the little girl that is out there -- [indiscernible] i listen to an interview by whoopi goldberg. she was being interviewed and they were saying what you like at home, she said this and this.
and they said what about that? she said that is not me, that is whoopi goldberg. that is when i am being whoopi goldberg. i think it is the same with elizabeth windsor. charlie: you have said they are aliens because we know so little about them. helen: we know everything about them but we cannot possibly imagine. what it is like to be them, to have lived that life since you were born. it is impossible to imagine. the biggest rock star, the hugest, the wealthiest man or woman in the world, i can have no comprehension of what that is like. they have to be, have to have lived this life nobody will ever live, except another monarch. guest: what is it you -- charlie: what is it you admire about her? helen: i admire her
self-discipline. her incredible self-discipline. it is true, she has never not turned up because she wasn't feeling well. she is careful about her health. she never lets people down. she arrives on time. she leaves on time. she does what is needed. it is not electrifying leg siding but it is what is required. -- it is not electrifyingly exciting but it is what is required. i think she naturally had a sense of duty, you have to do the right thing, you have to. charlie: what did you learn about watching her mannerisms, the way she tilts? helen: you are a detective, digging away at little details. i found it the same with maria altmann. there are people alive who knew
her. i never had the pleasure of meeting her. all i had was filmed. you watch that film looking for little moments that you can just go i see.i thought it was interesting with the queen. there was -- not a nervousness but a neuroses, a very controlled saying, she does this with her ring. she twiddled her ring around. that one tiny thing. everything else is calm and relaxed. just her little finger going like that. little things like that you notice. she always does this when she sits down. she puts her skirt straight. she always does that. charlie: in understanding her beyond the physical manifestation, what shaped your sense of the queen? helen: i guess, you know, doing
the film before the queen was like big ben. she was there. i drove pastor regularly. that is kind of cool. i never thought about how big ben worked, or if you could go up big ben. i didn't think about it. the queen was the same. doing the film, i had to think about her. as i thought about her, oh my god, what she has done is kind of incredible. feed more research i did too deep in my respect -- the more research i did deepened my respect. i am an elizabethan. the queen is the one person who has been in my life the longest. my parents are gone.
charlie: what does that mean? helen: the queen was there from the moment i was born and she is still a part of my british -- what is the word? charlie: british being. let's talk about -- reviewers love your performance. some don't like the film as much. helen: let's hope wiser people appreciate it. it is i think, it is a truthful film. charlie: and a woman you like. helen: yes. i didn't know her. but she was quite incredible. what she did was extraordinary. i wish he was alive to see this. charlie: i do too. she died when? helen: after the klimt picture. charlie: she got it back. she was 94.
helen: she was older than me when this was happening. she was in her 80's. i think they were longing for her to die so they would not have to give it back. as we kind of say. it was an incredible journey. charlie: a story of justice. helen: of justice, of memory. and above all justice, and reclaiming your memory. your life. from the people who took it away. brutally. charlie: your costar said it is a love story. helen: it is that as well. this strange relationship between randy and the lawyer and maria altmann,, two people who come together heat rediscovers his roots, which i
have a line in the film which i wrote, i improvised. anyway, it was a wonderful script. i want to the line because people forget, especially the young. of course they do, why should they remember? you have to remember. we have all listened you set an listen to your parents going on about the second world war, do i have to hear this again? then the reality begins to hit home as you get older, and more all knowledgeable. what an incredible generation. what incredible suffering. what an amazing achievement, to get through that and come out the other side. charlie: how did you go about
preparing for it? helen: i watched maria altman but more than that. i couldn't really look like her. she has a noble face. i'm a peasant by comparison. she had this truly aristocratic face. i could do the accents where the hair, but i couldn't get inside that mind and memories. i had to remember that story again. most of my work was in reading the material again, looking at the documentary, and reminding myself of that particular unbelievably -- charlie: a movie in which someone was searching for a nazi killer. helen: "the debt."
having to remind yourself it pays to go back and remind yourself. charlie: your father was the son of immigrants. helen: yes. my father was an immigrant. he was born in russia. charlie: did that play a role? helen: i don't think so. honestly, it was different. charlie: coming to a new place where you know no one. helen: and my grandfather especially. he became a taxi driver. that sense of history coming and wiping your whole family, a certain side of your family gone. and my father embraced that and said no, you assimilate you go forward. that was his attitude. charlie: when you look at the career you have had, would you have had it any different?
would you have liked more earlier? helen: yes. i would have loved to have done more movies earlier. if you really want to talk about me, charlie. [laughter] charlie: very much so. helen: do you? anyway. when i was in my golden era between 27 years old and 37 years old, you are at the top of your game, you are getting to be wiser, it was a very bad time for british film. a terrible time. confessions of a window cleaner. there were no british films at that time. it wasn't until until i came to america, prime suspect was great. charlie: 14 million viewers. helen: but i had done a lot of good tv. charlie: you would have liked to
have had more film roles. helen: british film was living on television. charlie: notwithstanding however old you are, you work all the time. helen: i do. charlie: you are in the prime of your career. you were on broadway, and a film. helen: it's been great for a long time. i have gone between film and tv. charlie: you can be in your prime for a long time. it is as good as it has been. helen: absolutely, definitely. charlie: i have toi have to say starring on broadway is wonderful. it is seeing your name in lights. it is pathetic, but it is great. charlie: look on the marquee and there it is. helen mirren about the title. [indiscernible] even now you get excited about that. helen: definitely. fantastic. charlie: did you say your
greatest guru was frantic -- francis bacon? how does the influence you? helen: he's a great painter obviously. but he -- there is interviews with francis bacon, he put forth the concept, which at that time i hadn't thought of, of the tensions between inspiration and technique. the way accident is very important in art, but you can only achieve accident in a full way after you have mastered technique. in other words, children under the age of seven are all every single one of them a genius painter. they are genius because it is instinctive. you can't be painting as a
seven-year-old when you are 14 years old. you have to move forward. you go through this painful process of learning technique. you have lost your instinct. yields lost your inspiration. -- you have lost your inspiration. you are learning. you get through that, and now you can allow accident to happen. you are open to accident. you have all the technique, you have all that deep within you don't even have to think about it. it can become thoughtless. then you can allow inspiration to come back. the master of this is al pacino. charlie: he is coming this week. i will bring that up with him. helen: he is the master of allowing -- he is totally technical. every hit he hits a mark. he never fails. he knows the cutting, the editing, and within that
structured form which film is very tight, he is utterly free and so inspiring to be around. charlie: taylor directed him. helen: he did. devils advocate. charlie: carol wilson, as left as any prime minister to have served have this special relationship with the queen. helen: he did. charlie: why? helen: she just liked him. his personality. what he says in the play is true. one will never know for sure, until we read her diaries. charlie: she keeps diaries? helen: they have to, don't they? they all keep diaries. charlie: part of being clean. helen: part of being a monarch. >> i don't imagine you ever thought you would be prime
minister. >> goodness. there is a photograph of me taken outside downing street with some people interpreted as such, but there was never any scheme or plan. [laughter] half the children where i grew up never had boots on their feet. they wore clogs because they lasted longer. as children we never had any dreams or hopes beyond survival. i nearly died from typhoid. now i am here drinkingg t with the queen of england. >>she doesn't care for the limelight, or the thrust of westminster life, doesn't care for our new home. >> downing street? >> living in the office as she calls it.
>> my husband feels the same. he loads it. we all do. >> no. >> yes. >> no. >> yes. >> what a scoop. charlie: you were laughing throughout that. helen: bill makes me laugh. in the wide shot, i look away to give him time. he knows that he needs the sugar , so you can get the sugar. i look away for a moment out of politeness. it is funny. charlie: going back to the movie, this is where maria altmann is talking to her lawyer about the idea of reclaiming the klimt paintings they had lost. here it is. >> it is quite a painting. >> it is magnificent. she was taken off the walls of our home by the knot sees -- nazis. >> and now you would like to be
reunited. >> wouldn't that be lovely? >> it would make you a rich woman. >> do you think this is what this is about? no. i have to do what i can to keep these memories alive. because people forget, you see, especially the young. then of course, there is justice. charlie: i asked what you would think as you watch that. helen: not bad. [laughter] charlie: this is what is interesting about you. follow me here. so many people come in because of the quality of the pieces they have filmed, even performances on film, they do this -- you seem to enjoy this. [indiscernible] [laughter]
helen: well, theater it is fun to see. you never see that. we never see that. i have no idea what i look like when i am doing this stuff. charlie: you could go watch it if you wanted to. helen: i might hate myself which would be so -- charlie: have you hated yourself in any performance? helen: not in totality. charlie: which gives you the most despair? [laughter] helen: thank you for asking that. good question. that's unfair. then i would be dissing the work. in theater, you can't -- you have no idea. charlie: which one are you proudest of? helen: i did love "the debt." charlie: i love that film.