tv With All Due Respect Bloomberg June 1, 2015 8:00pm-8:31pm EDT
mark: i am mark halperin. john: i am john heilemann. the rand paul government surveillance victory lap -- [whispers] rand, they are still listening. john: happy national heimlich maneuver day, sports fans. on the show tonight, a message from bernie sanders, a love note for scott walker, and rand paul's hate mail. but first, a lindsaygram. that cracked me up. he announced he is running for president. he is the ninth republican to officially enter the field.
it will get even more crowded soon. at a rally in his childhood home of central, south carolina graham talked about his roots. and a lot about the dangers of a world exploding in terror and violence. senator graham: the world is exploding in terror and violence. i am running for president because i have the experience, the judgment, and the will to deny the most radical regimes the most dangerous weapons. john: we're going to talk more about lindsey graham later in the show. but for now, here is my question. is he running for the presidency or to make a point? mark: both. his performance today was low-energy. it was less like the launch of a movement, more like a guy having a time with his community crowd. they are proud of what he is doing. i think he can be a huge factor in this race, bigger than most people do, but it would be hard to see a path to the nomination. john: i respect lindsey graham enough to think he knows he is not going to be the nominee. i think he is running to make a point.
and not just to make a single point. he has a distinctive brand of foreign policy hawkishness. he is worried about his party being pulled into an isolationist place by rand paul. witness this the debate over the patriot act this weekend. i think he wants to be a counterweight and make sure the party stays on what he sees as the true path to national security. mark: rand paul wins iowa and new hampshire. lindsey graham wins south carolina. they head into the south. the party is desperate to stop rand paul. the establishment is. lindsey graham beats him in the southern primaries. why couldn't that make him the nominee? john: i am not saying there is no scenario, but i think it is far-fetched. there are enough other establishment candidates, jeb bush, marco rubio. mark: but can they win a state? this is a guy who can win a state. john: south carolina is going to get discounted by lindsay's favored son status. mark: let's move on. topic 2, bernie sanders is now
drawing bigger crowds in iowa than any other presidential prospect of either party. a story chronicling the outbreak of bernie mania, "the new york times" says that thursday in davenport, 750 people showed up to listen to bernie sanders. compare that to around 50 people who turned out in the same town for martin o'malley on saturday the day he announced his presidential campaign. that is not the only big crowd sanders has drawn. others in iowa turning out for him, and his rise is reflected in our new "des moines register" paul. -- pole. hillary clinton is dominating the field, but look at bernie sanders. he has gone from 5% in the last poll in january, 16%, tripling his support over the course of that time when he did announce for president. o'malley clocking in at just 2%, although our survey was completed just as he was formally entering the race. look at bernie sanders, 16%, a
huge jump up. he is being touted by many people as the threat to hillary clinton. my question to you is can martin , o'malley, in iowa and nationally, become the clinton alternative, or is it sanders now? john: i hoped you were going to ask, is there anything that can stop bernie sanders from being the next president of the united states. martin o'malley is more conventionally attractive, as a candidate. younger, fantastic looking, more mainstream instead of a far left liberal. i think he could have his moment in iowa. bernie mania could burn out, and you could see how the flowering of o'malley fever before we get to january. mark: you can also easily imagine a scenario -- there are other democrats who may run, but you can imagine a scenario where sanders weakens clinton rhetorically and in the caucuses, and o'malley steps in, and democrats panic if there is a clinton controversy. i think because o'malley is a more conventional candidate, he could easily end up benefiting from sanders' strengths. in the short-term, he better
start catching on. he better move up in the polls. john: he has to have an economic message as distinctive as barney -- as bernie's, and has to start going after the clintons in a more pointed way. now for the republican side of our new iowa poll. few 2016 contenders have spent less time campaigning in the hawkeye state this cycle then an scott walker. iowans do not care. the wisconsin governor has extended his lead, pulling in 17% of the vote, followed by rand paul and ben carson at 10% each, and jeb bush and mike huckabee at 9% each. mark, what is it, if he is not showing up in the state? what accounts for walker's growing strength in iowa? mark: we have seen other people from neighboring states not do well in iowa. and walker -- john: remember tim paul nt? mark: -- pawlenty? mark: and also tommy thompson. walker is from a neighboring state.
he grew up in iowa. not only do people like that fact, but they are comfortable with him culturally and know his record in wisconsin not just from hearing about it across the border, but because he has been there enough that it is starting to burn through. we heard that in our focus group. i think walker right there is in a stronger position than our poll indicates, in the sense that he has not been there much. john: there is two things to say additionally. the geography thing, if you look deep in these numbers -- a lot of his strength comes from the northwest corner of the state, which is familiar, because they get wisconsin media. the second thing is he is making himself into an iowa candidate. his positions on immigration are popular with the iowa base. he is running as an evangelical candidate, not the establishment scott walker. he is running as the base pleasing grassroots version. that is part of the appeal. he is running straight to the heart of the iowa base. mark: to be fair, he has not had much hand-to-hand combat. people have taken on other candidates. no one has taken him on yet. let's see what happens. john: 17% is a good score. michele bachmann was at 23% in the last cycle, so he could easily collapse. mark: key parts of the patriot act expired just after midnight.
provisions that once let the government seize phone records in bulk and use roving wiretaps disappeared. you can either blame or thank senator rand paul, who is being accused of blocking a new surveillance measure to help his presidential campaign. on fox news this morning, paul defended himself and lashed out at his critics. senator paul: no one questions my sincerity in defense of the fourth amendment and bill of rights. those who do are simply trying to make the debate into a tawdry debate, trying to use personal innuendo which i think is really beneath all of us. we ought to have a better debate on the facts. mark: his victory will be short-lived or at least short term. the senate is expected to pass the house bill this week that would reinstate the surveillance provisions, but put new limits on bulk data collection programs.
my question to you is, after this fight with the patriot act is over, has rand paul helped or hurt himself trying to become the nominee? john: 100% helped. after a relatively good announcement when he got into the race, he sort of disappeared for a while. this is -- he has got -- these are his issues. this is the core of his appeal. he is going to ride these to the nomination or not, but there is no other way for him. this issue put him in the spotlight. he loves that other republicans are attacking. he likes being able to draw that contrast. it is all good for him. mark: i disagree. the liberty agenda is potent and he has to appeal to people who want him to fight, but he has made it too personal. i have heard from several republicans who have said he is talking too much about himself and being attacked, not the principle. when he does that when he becomes "poor me" rand paul, the establishment turns against him in a way that will hurt his chances. john: i agree about the defensiveness, but this is a victory. it has shown the republican party has moved in his direction.
or he and the base are in line. mark: he can win establishment support, but not acting like this. john: i am not sure establishment support is his way to win. mark: acting on principle is always good for presidential politics. for that, hats off to him. john: i agree 100%. by now, you have heard the tragic news that beau biden, son of joe biden and former attorney general of delaware, passed away saturday from brain cancer. he was 46. since then there has been an , ordinary outpouring of condolences from across the political spectrum and around the country from people who, whether they knew him or not could sense what a devoted public servant and good guy he was, and the connection between him and his father. beau: he is the father i have always known, the grandfather my children love and adore, and the vice president our nation needs. tonight, mr. chairman, it is my great honor to place into nomination for the office of vice president of the united states my father, my hero, joe biden. [applause]
john: there have been a lot of things said about beau biden. he is obviously a guy who did not take the easy way, who wanted to work for it, who served in the military, did all those things. but the thing is, i know that we know the two of them. we knew beau biden. we know joe biden. the bond between them is so powerful. you could not spend time with either of them without having them both gush about each other. the depth of that bond is an extraordinary -- spend 10 minutes with joe biden without him talking in the most effusive terms about his son. and the feelings were obviously mutual. it is almost the ideal father-son relationship people idealize iunveil a new
about his own credentials. senator graham: radical islam is running wild. they have more safe havens, more money, more capability, and more weapons to strike our homeland than any time since 9/11. they are large. they are rich. they are entrenched. as president, i will make them small, poor, and on the run. i have more experience with our national security than any other candidate in this race. [applause] senator graham: that includes you, hillary. mark: he takes a jab at hillary clinton but highlights the fact they are friends. our poll shows in iowa what all republican polling shows, which is that foreign policy is a big deal. is that a distinctive enough message, or is he just rand paul? john: there is a little bit of that. the issue matters a lot. his level of experience does not matter much. it matters some. but there are -- where he is on these issues is further to the right than a lot of republicans are. mark: how was he further to the
right, as projected today? john: i think the base is more in line with where rand paul is, on the issue of privacy and the nsa, but i think he is not that much further to the right on where we should be projecting strength around the world. which means it is not distinctive enough for him to set himself apart in a dramatic way from the rest of the field. mark: the one area he and john mccain have talked about is putting ground troops in lots of places. i was surprised in this speech that -- that excerpt is representative. he talked a lot about the threat, but little about specifics. did not stake out where he might go to say to the hawkish wing of the party, i am not ted cruz not jeb bush -- i am different. john: let's go onto the next piece of video and sound. lindsey graham's speech was not all tough talk. announced his aspirations not far from the pool hall and restaurant his parents once owned. graham recalled the time when after his parents died, he and his sister relied on something many republicans do not speak fondly of -- government support.
senator graham: we lost our parents when i was a young man and she was in middle school. we depended on social security benefits to survive. i have been fortunate. i have done better than i ever dreamed. if i and others like me have to take a little bit less and pay a little more to help those who need it most, so be it. and younger people, you may just have to work a little bit longer. as president, i will gladly do what it takes to save a program that once saved my family. john: so lindsey graham does care about entitlement reform, but my question is whether he is going to be seen as just a foreign policy candidate. will this message breakthrough? mark: chris christie has gotten ahead of him, talking about entitlement reform in a bold way, with a fair amount of specifics in the campaign.
i think his personal story is pretty compelling. i am surprised he did not tell more of it today. to me, the question is, can there be a narrative associated with lindsey graham? is there a story about his upbringing he can burn in with folks in iowa, in new hampshire, where he is going to make a big play? it is a heartwarming story and a heartwrenching story, but i do not know he has the capacity given his nature, to tell it in a way that will burn in for folks. john: entitlement reform is an issue people here in washington love. it is not an issue many voters get excited about. it is an issue that, when he starts to put meat on the bones, is not going to be super popular . it is not going to ignite anybody anywhere. mark: finally, graham tried to pitch himself to the nation as a guy who is willing to work with anybody, including the other party. senator graham: to my friends in the other party, on the big things, we share a common faith. i will work with you to strengthen the country we both love.
our differences are real, and we will debate them. but you are not my enemy. you are my fellow countrymen. to americans who trust neither party, i will seek the political common ground our nation so desperately needs to find. [applause] senator graham: that is what i have done before. don't take my word for it. examine my record. i got the scars to prove it. mark: this is a split in the party. graham is up there with kasich and bush in saying, we have to work with democrats to get things done. what is your sense? is that a resonant message with the base of the party, the nominating electorate? john: i applaud him for that message and do not think it is resonant. that is not going to be the ticket for him. on the one issue where he is most -- what he is best known
for and where he speaks most powerfully, he is not bipartisan at all. the positions he takes on foreign intervention and military muscle around the world are ones where democrats have no truck with it. so it is not like he can point to, on his core issue, examples of places where he has fashioned compromise. mark: he did not make a big deal about immigration and climate change today. john: which really are not popular with the base. mark: when we come back, we are going to introduce you to the selzer score. and polling will never be the same! ♪
john: we have been talking all show about the new poll, but the with the field so crowded, our next guest says the horserace numbers can only tell us so much. and she would know, because she is our pollster. joining us now is j. ann selzer with a new way to break through the polling. around here, we call it the
selzer score. great to have you back on the show, as always. tell us, what is the selzer score? ann: it is not the political equivalent of the bcs score, so let me say that off the bat. it is simple and easy to understand. our problem is, we have a group of people who are huddled at the bottom. we have a clear front runner and upper tier, and a bunch of people that one percentage point here or there could really change their position in the ranking. how could we spread the field was my goal. the first thing that was important was to get the most votes for first place. we take that score and we double it. that counts twice. second place, that is another candidate out of 16 you are saying you could support, so we are going to count that as part of your selzer score. and then finally, because you only get to votes -- two boats and there is 16 candidates nobody is going to end up with many, so we added in candidates who you said, i could see myself supporting that person.
because that is not quite as important we cut that number in , half. we add those numbers together, you get your selzer score. mark: when you do that for this field of presidential candidates in iowa, who comes out on top? whose numbers divide out the way you want to, to get a sense of standings? ann: scott walker shows you just how strong he is, because he now has the most points, at 64.5. the next person up there is 51.5, and that is mike huckabee. you can see it is spreading the field. george pataki is at the bottom at 11. what it does is to create gradations within that field to better sort them out. some people end up with a better standing because of this, and some people have a worse standing once we take those three factors into consideration. john: one of the things that is most noticeable when you look at
the selzer score is that marco rubio jumps in the leaderboards and jeb bush falls back. talk about that dynamic and how you explain how this applies in this case. ann: this is where looking just at that first place is sort of -- it undercounts marco rubio's potential strengths. he has the most voters saying, he is my second choice. that helps in quite a bit. and a large number of people say, i could see myself supporting him. so he moved up. he was tied at six with santorum. he is now tied for third with huckabee, i think. yes. jeb bush, on the other hand, has a problem, in terms of his ability to generate that kind of "ever" support. among people who say he is not their first or second, there is a fair number of people who say, "and i could never support him." so he actually drops down in a tie -- he was tied for fourth and drops down to sixth.
what this does is say to you, if you are looking to the future in iowa, pay more attention to marco rubio, because he has potential momentum to take off and jeb bush is one more example of the challenges that underscore his candidacy so far. mark: obviously, this like all polls is a snapshot. where we are now. how hard is it in iowa and in general for candidates to turn people from saying, i will never vote for jeb bush, to being open to voting for him? does that happen with enough regularity that jeb bush can hope to change this? ann: all these candidates need to spend more time in the state. i am struck when i talk to people about their commitment at this point. they say, i don't really know that candidate. in particular, jeb bush, they say, i don't really know. what that means in iowa is, they have not heard his positions. they have not had a chance to see him in person. they do not feel they can take the measure of the man on the basis of what they have seen. that "ever" is most changeable by people getting to know the
candidate and getting a feel for what kind of president that person would be. john: i want to ask you something. i know we are giving attention to the selzer score, but i want to emphasize you are the gold standard pollster for america. i think what you are saying is, you believe this numerical ranking you have come up with is actually a better reflection of reality than the horserace number. is that right? ann: that is exactly what i am saying. i think the horserace all by itself gives you a bit of the picture, an important bit of the picture. but if you are looking to win nonow a field of 16, you need ways of verifying the people in the top half of that list are really the people who are going to be the ones with the greatest potential to stay in the race, and to break through with voters and and up on caucus night with a near victory. top three. mark: ann selzer, thanks very
emily: the nsa's phone dragnet remains in limbo as congress wrestles with the patriot act. does big brother deserve our big data? i am emily chang and this is "bloomberg west." intel defending its data center business by buying altera or over $16 billion. what it tells us about the growing m&a wave in the semiconductor industry. the rise of the one-stop button. i'm joined with the entrepreneur whose technology is integrating uber into foursquare with just one