tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg September 30, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm EDT
announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. tonight, part two of our conversation with vladimir putin. we talked of many things, he gave us an opportunity to have an engaging conversation about him and how he sees russia and russia's role in the world. he gave us an opportunity to have a further conversation after the interview when he invited it's in for appetizers, which turned into dinner.
now, the conversation, followed visit tolysis of his the united states. our people in russia fearful of you? -- are people in russia fearful of you? pres. putin: i think not. people trust me if they vote for me. importante most thing. it places enormous responsibility on me, colossal. i'm grateful to people for this trust. i feel a huge burden. charlie: you're much talked about in america. there's much conversation. more so than any -- pres. putin: maybe they have nothing else to do in america but to talk about me. charlie: no, no, or maybe they're curious people. or maybe you're an interesting character. maybe that's what it is.
they see a strong leader who presents himself in a strong way. they know of a former kgb agent who came back and got into politics in st. petersburg and became deputy mayor and then came to moscow. and the interesting thing is they see these images of you bare-chested on a horse. and they say, there is a man who carefully cultivates his image of strength. pres. putin: you know, i'm convinced that a person in my -- a person who occupies my post must provide a positive example to people. and those areas where he can do this, he must do this. in our country, we had a very severe situation with the social
security system, a lot of problems emerged that we still cannot effectively resolve fully. care, aphere of health healthy lifestyle is extremely important. foundation of the resolution of many crucial problems, including the health of the nation. it is impossible to solve the health care problem with millions of people only by using pills. people need to have the passion. i believe this is the right thing, when not only i, but asked today,ues,
for example, they participate in the marathon races. when they attempt soccer matches, when they participate in sports competitions. this is where the love of millions of people of sports comes from. i think it is extremely important. charlie: i hear you. you do like the image that you present, bare chested on horseback, as a strong leader. that is who you want to be seen as. for your people and for the world. pres. putin: i want everybody to know that russia and the leadership of russia are something effective and properly functioning.
, healthyr, russia people, confident people, ready to cooperate with our partners, wherever they are. i think there is only positive in this. believe in awould strong leader because you believe in a strong central government and you have suggested what happens when you don't have that. are you curious about america? more than simply another nation you have to deal with. they are curious about you. are you watching the republican
political debates? i would not say i watch them daily, no. of course, we are curious about what is going on in the u.s. it is a major economic power. influenceerts great on the situation in the world in general and we are interested in what is going on. watch, but i close do not watch the internal political saga on an everyday basis. more likely, no. charlie: donald trump says -- you know who he is. he thinks the two of you would get along. that.putin: i heard we will be glad to have any contact with the next president of the united states.
any person who games the trust of the american people can count on the fact that we will work with them. marco rubio is running for the republican nomination and he said some terrible things about you. -- he said debate you were a gangster. he was attacking you because -- pres. putin: how can i be a gangster if i worked for the kgb? that has no basis in reality. mostie: what do you admire about america? i like the: creativity. charlie: creativity? pres. putin: creativity when it comes to your tackling problems.
their openness, it allows them to unleash the inner potential of their people. such great attained results in developing their country. sputnik.russia had you were there before the united states. russia has extraordinary astrophysicists and leaders in medicine and science and physics. -- do you hope that what you can do is restore that leadership and create the same kind of innovation that you just admired america for? and how will you do that? we should not lose what was created in the previous
decades. we should create the very conditions for showing the potential of our people because we are a very talented people. we have a very good basis. you said you love russian culture. i think that is a great basis for internal development. you have just mentioned are achievements in science and other areas. we must create conditions for people to develop freely, for them to feel confident they are able to realize their potential. i am confident that we will have an effect on the consistent development of science, high-tech technologies, and the economy in the country overall. charlie: in america, the supreme court -- there has been some controversy about gay rights.
the supreme court declared it a constitutional right for same-sex marriage. you will plot america -- do you applaud america? do you think that it is a good idea to make it a constitutional right for same-sex marriage? thinkputin: you know, i that is not a homogeneous group of people. some representatives of the nontraditional sexual orientation speak out against suchdoption of children by couples. the problem of sexual minorities in russia has been deliberately exaggerated by the outside for political reasons.
we don't have any problem. charlie: help us understand. pres. putin: i will explain it. it is well known that in four states in america, homosexual orientation is a crime, whether that is good or bad is not the issue. we know there is a ruling of the supreme court, but this problem has not disappeared. it is not completely removed from legislation. we do not have that. charlie: so you would condemn that? pres. putin: yes, i condemn that. there should not be any criminal prosecution or any other prosecution or infringement on people's lights -- on people's rights on the basis of religion, ethnicity, or sexual orientation. that should be excluded in the modern world.
we do not have that. me,y memory does not fail we had article 120 of the criminal code which had prosecutions on the basis of homosexuality. we have abolished all of that. people of nontraditional sexual orientation live in peace, they work, they get promoted. they receive medals. i personally have awarded them medals. a ban on propaganda on homosexuality among minors. i do not see anything undemocratic about this legal act. we should leave children in peace, give them a chance to grow and to decide for themselves, who was this person? -- who is this person? do they want to live in a
normal, natural marriage or a nontraditional one? believe this has been a deliberate exaggeration with the purpose of making the group of people from russia for the purpose of making an enemy of russia for political consideration. i believe this is one of the lines of attack against russia. where?: from pres. putin: from the side of those who do that. look and see who does this. arelie: as far as you concerned, there is as much of a recognition of gay rights and gay marriage as there is in the united states? pres. putin: we do not only recognize, but we ensure their rights. equal rights are guaranteed for everyone.
ukraine, you and i have talked about ukraine before. many believe that as a result of what happened in ukraine and crimea, the united states imposed sanctions and those sanctions have hurt russia and that you believe by reemerging and trying to be a positive force around the world and in syria, that it might somehow lessen the focus on ukraine. pres. putin: do you mean that will help distract the attention from the ukrainian crisis? syria are meant distracting?
we do not want the disintegration of syria. we do not want terrorists coming back to russia. there is a whole complex city of problems -- complexity of problems. ukraine is our closest neighbor. we have always said it is our brother country. languagesonly -- our are very similar. we have common history, common culture, common religion. believe is absolutely inadmissible is the resolution of internal political issues in the former ussr republic through color revolutions, through coup d'etat, through unconstitutional removal of power.
try to conceal that. they said, yes, we did train them and we spent that much money and it now amounts to $5 billion. you are suggesting -- pres. putin: nobody is leavin -- nobody is even arguing against that. charlie: do you respect the sovereignty of ukraine? pres. putin: we want other countries to respect the sovereignty of other countries. not allow unconstitutional actions and coup d'etat, the removal of legitimate power. renewal ofw will the legitimate power take place, in your judgment? how will that come about and what role will russia play?
pres. putin: russia is not going to take part in any action removing the legitimate government. what i am saying is if somebody -- in libya, we have seen the disintegration of the state. in syria, the situation is unfolding the same way. in afghanistan, you very well know what the situation looks like. they should have gone to the elections and elected a new leader.
as for the coup d'etat, somebody supported that. but somebody did not. charlie: i repeat, what are you prepared to do? if your question is about that, i believe russia and other international actors, those who are more actively engaged in the resolution of the ukrainian crisis, germany and france, with the active engagement of the united states, and in that direction, we have intensified our dialogue. we should strive for full and unconditional implementation of the minced agreement -- minsk agreement. it must be fulfilled.
whatie: that is exactly john kerry said yesterday coming out of a meeting with the british prime minister. he mentioned after syria, ukraine. we have to have a full implementation of the agreement. u.n. john kerry are just like -- you and john kerry are just like this, you agree. pres. putin: could you please have enough patience and not interrupt me for two minutes? please present this without cuts. can you do this? do you have enough power to do this? charlie: yes. the implementation of the agreements means there are several articles.
i will speak about the main points so the situation in ukraine changes fundamentally. there should be political reform, that is first. there should be constitutional changes. important, the agreements state they should be done in coordination. principle.atter of ukraine, there are reforms introduced in the constitution, but there has been no coordination with don't ask -- thedonesk at all. stated in the agreements there should be the implementation of the law. the law was already past in
ukraine of the special self-governance status of those territories. law,have adopted this implementation has been proposed -- postponed. the minsk agreements are not fulfilled on this point. third, there should have been amnesty law. how can one engage in a dialogue with people if they are all being prosecuted? they are all being brought legal charges. a law on amnesty must be adopted, but it has not been adopted. there are other points as well. for example, conducting local elections.
it has been written to adopt a law on local elections upon coordination. ukraine has adopted the law on local elections. the representatives sent to their proposals on this law three times, but nobody will even talk to them. the minsk agreements say with coordination. that is why i respect and love mr. kerry. he is a very experienced diplomat. he is against star wars and it was the right thing to do because maybe if he was the one who adopted decisions, he probably would not have -- we probably would not have any conflicts right now. if one side says, we have complied with the minsk agreements, it is not true.
all of these points must be implemented in coordination. there has been no quarter nation coordination so far. as for the special self-governance of these territories, within 30 days, nothing has been done. it has postponed. the entering into force into this law has been postponed. fullis why we advocate implementation of the minsk agreements. charlie: you really believe that? pres. putin: there is nothing to believe. it is written on paper. it is written. read the document for yourself. i am telling you there has been no carbonation as law -- no quarter nation at all -- co-ordination at all.
charlie: the secretary of state also said it is important to implement the minsk agreement, but also for separatists to give up the idea of independent elections. john kerry said that yesterday. yes, i know the position of our u.s. friend. i just mentioned this. i am forced to repeat it. the minsk agreements say a law on local elections must be passed in coordination. what happened in reality? they did adopt the law on their own without any negotiations there was no dialogue at all.
they have adopted this on their in without any consultation these territories, there will not be elections at all. how are we to understand this? they have provoked the representatives of donetsk to schedule their own elections. that is all there is to it. they are ready to discuss all of this, but we need to prod both sides to implement rather than to pass off as something good what they have done on their own initiative. charlie: secretary kerry emphasized separatists elections. i did hear you. pres. putin: he is being cunning. it is quite normal for his profession and for his work. all diplomats are quite cunning. charlie: you would never do
the worst thing that happened in the last century was the collapse of the soviet empire. there are those who look at ukraine, especially ukraine and georgia, and they believe you do not want to re-create the soviet empire, but you do want to influence, sphere of which you think russia deserves because of the relationship that has existed. why are you smiling? you are making me happy because we are always suspected of some ambition and they always try to sit -- distort something or hint at something. i believe the collapse of the u.s. are was the -- ussr was a huge tragedy. first of all, in a single instant, 25 million russian
people found themselves be on the borders of the russian federation. they had been living within the borders of the unified state. the soviet union had been called russia, soviet russia. this was greater russia. all of a sudden, the ussr collapsed, overnight, in fact, right? it has turned out that in former soviet republics, there were russian people numbering 25 million. they had been living in a single country. all of a sudden, they turned out to be a broad. you can imagine how many problems arose. first of all, there were everyday problems, economic problems, social problems, the separation of families. you cannot list them all. do you think it is normal that
25 million russian people were abroad all of a sudden? russia turned out to be the largest divided nation in the world today. is that not a problem? well, not for you, but it is for me. charlie: what are you going to do about it? pres. putin: we want to preserve the common humanitarian space. to make it so that these borders do not get in the way, so that people can communicate freely among themselves, so we can develop our economies jointly. we want to take advantage of those benefits of the former ussr. joint infrastructure, unified railroad system, unified highway system, unified energy system, and finally, the great russian language which unites all former republics of the soviet union
and which gives us competitive advantages when promoting various integration projects in the territory of the post-soviet space. you probably heard we first established the customs union. when people can communicate freely, move freely, when workforces, services and capital move freely, there are no state lines when we have legal regulation in the social sphere. quite enough. people must feel free. charlie: do you have to use an show military force to accomplish that objective? pres. putin: of course not. charlie: you have a military presence on the border of
ukraine. you have a military presence in europe. the technical nuclear weapons of the united states are in europe, let's not forget that. does it mean that you have occupied germany or you renounce the occupation of germany after world war ii and you have only transformed the occupation forces into nato forces? one could put it that way, but we are not putting it that way. if we have our military forces on our border, on our territory, you believe this is a crime? charlie: i did not say a crime. in order to run these activities i have told you about, this economic, humanitarian, social integration, military force would not be needed at all.
we built our union not with the use of force, but through seeking a compromise. this is a complicated process, a difficult, long-standing process. exception that we would create for our people and our economies, more advantages in world markets and in the international arena. charlie: tell me about the baltic states and your intentions towards the baltic states. pres. putin: we would like to build friendly relations with them, a lot of russian people living there who remained after the soviet union. their rights have been violated. in many baltic states, they have invented some new thing.
this has been the case up until now regarding citizenship. a citizen, a foreigner, a person without citizenship, people with .ual citizenship the baltic states have invented something totally new. they call them noncitizens. they call people who have been living for decades in the territory of the baltic states and you have been to fry -- and who have been deprived of their rights, they cannot participate in elections. everyone keeps silent about this as if this is the way it is supposed to be. of course, this cannot help but
provoke an appropriate response. our colleagues in the u.s. and the european union will base on today's principles of humanitarian law and will ensure the political liberties and rights for all people. including for those people who are living in the territory of baltic states after the collapse of the ussr. ties,t comes to economic we have developed contracts with these countries. there are some things -- how can i put this more delicately? they bother me and make me sad. if we are all talking about the need to have a rapprochement and , sog our positions closer
as for the baltic states, we have a single energy system. the baltic states are naturally part of this system of the soviet union. now what are they doing? everyone is talking about rapprochement, russia, and the european union. what actually happens in practice is they plan to remove the baltic states from this unified energy system of the former soviet union and hook them up with the european system. what does that mean for us? it means among some of our regions in the russian federation, there will be some zones were there will be no electric power lines -- where there will be no electric power
lines. he four, it went to the baltic --before, it went through this means starting from scratch. why? when we are striving for some sort of integration, not in words, but in practice, why do this? this is what is happening along many lines. they say one thing, but they do something quite different. i think this comes from growing pains. i think common sense will finally prevail. , this is moretes important for them than russia itself. take one of the countries, lithuania. do you know what the population was? 3.4 million people.
and now? 1.4 million. where did the people go? country, over half the citizens left the country. can you imagine what would happen if half the u.s. population left? it would be a disaster. that tells us the links that were lost above all in the economy have a negative impact and on russia as well. that is why i am convinced we should abandon the phobias of the past and look ahead and act based on the international law to build good neighborly relations on equal footing. charlie: and eliminate sanctions. pres. putin: if someone likes to work so much through using sanctions, go ahead, you can do that. it is harmful and it goes
against international law. tell me where the policy of imposing sanctions has been effective. nowhere. i have two more questions. pres. putin: of course, you have the floor. charlie: you have been president, primus to, president -- prime minister, president. how long do you want to serve? what do you want to be your legacy? long, that: how depends on two things. there are regulations provided for by the constitution and they will never be violated by me. should exercise all of these constitutional rights. that will depend on the specific
situation in the country and the world. charlie: what do you want your legacy to be? bes. putin: russia should effective, competitive, should have a sustainable economy with a developed social and political system that is flexible in regard to changes within and around the country. charlie: and should play a major role in the world. pres. putin: it should be competitive, as i said. and should be in a position to defend its own interests and to influence those processes. charlie: many say you are all-powerful here in russia. many say you are all-powerful. and they believe you can have anything you want. anything. what do you want? tell america, tell the world,
charlie: that was part two of our conversation with president putin. we now talk about what happened at the united nations general assembly. president obama and president putin spoke on monday. they met afterwards in their first formal meeting in two years. describes then discussion as surprisingly frank. our guest is the author of the ."w book "the new czar from cbs, margaret brennan. lee.in new york, carol also in new york, neil ferguson, a professor of history and harvard. -- at harvard.
his biography of henry kissinger has just been published. carol, you have been following the story. carol: they saw each other at a lunch. putin made a brand -- grand entrance. they went into a private meeting, which lasted 90 minutes. you know, i have covered this president for six years and i have covered other meetings and this was the first time the u.s. officials came out of the meeting and felt like they were not arguing about the terms of what the problem is. they were more arguing about how to approach the problem. charlie: margaret, what can you add to what we may know?
was only in the country for about seven hours. it was very much, i am here, making a statement, and i am leaving. their favorite tagline is, it is hard to get inside putin's had. -- head. this meeting went on far longer than many expected and it has stalled u.s. policy in many ways up to this point because people wanted to see, what is putin going to put on the table? he did not put much on the table. as far as hearing his vision about what to do in syria. charlie: how do you see the way putin played this? >> astonishingly well. russia is the broker of peace in
syria. that is the next ordinary -- airy -- extraordinary turn of events. he has come to new york the powerbroker and i find that an amazing achievement. charlie: stephen, what do you think his objectives are? stephen: a lot of people have looked at this at some sort of brinkmanship. he has put russia into the center of the discussion. it is way too soon to say he has achieved anything by that. they are very concerned about the fate of their biggest ally in the region. they have been involved in syria from the very beginning of this war. there is a reason why you are seeing the buildup of military involvement.
it is a sign of fear and weakness. -- assad government charlie: they have changed. margaret, how me understand where john kerry is on the of a sawed -- of assad. margaret: he has negotiated with basher al-assad directly. he has this assignment figuring out what to do put on his desk and has been pushed hard to get more done. a lot of what was done in new york can be called small ball. limiting some of the instruments of death, so to speak, that a sawed -- that assad uses.
they are not at the place of talking assad out of power. the united states has been sitting down with the saudi foreign minister and the russian foreign minister. when they say transition, they are not talking about him exiting on day one. he would not exit until isis is defeated. as you know, we are years off possibly from that happening. niall: i have been an outspoken critic to vladimir putin. if this had been a debating contest, he would have wanted hands down -- won it hands-down. his speechbama spent criticizing iran and criticizing
russia. vacuum, we left a power in libya. the holes in the arguments are enormous. putin's position was a simpler one. we allow states to disintegrate and this has had desperate consequences. charlie: from the standpoint of whether there is room for these two countries to find someplace to attack isis. the other question on the table, assad regimethe had any success in fighting isis? carol: the white house is hope in terms of whether they can reach an agreement with russia is vladimir putin is not wedded to assad as a person, but to the
regime. they can negotiate some kind of agreement where he steps down in several years. charlie: everybody is prepared to accept that idea? he can be in power for as much as two or three years as long as we're making progress in getting rid of isis. wayl: structure it in a that outlines a plan so that -- sends a message that he is on the way out. the interesting thing is that what this intervention has done, you have this president deal with the fight against the islamic state in the civil war in syria and white house officials have described that as parallel tracks. the intervention has forced them
to bring this under one umbrella. this is what the president's critics have been calling for him to do for quite some time. the other element is they have had huge failures in their approach to the islamic state and failures in their approach to handling the civil war. every president has a major crisis that hangs over them and this is barack obama's and he only has a year and change left. it is unclear whether he can really change the dynamics on the ground there. charlie: tell us who he is. suggestionse were he understood the corruption of the system, the stagnation of the system. he wants very much to restore the greatness of the state, at least the russian state on the level he knew growing up as a
young man. that gives him this incredible devotion and loyalty to the state power. it is in his blood from his service in the kgb, his understanding of what makes the country powerful, especially a country like russia, is the central security of the state and the strength of the institutions of it. to him, that is much more important than freedom of speech or democracy. when you look at the experience russia went through after the collapse of the soviet union, he has -- he considers it his greatest accomplishment is to restore the stability of the state. when he sees what the united states has done, it is in his mind having replaced the bipolar world of the cold war with the unilateral power, and he talked
about that quite strikingly during his remarks in new york. i think he is trying to say the world needs to go back to the order that recognizes the great powers like russia, like china, and not just the single superpower. when he looks at the events in iraq under president bush and the invasion of afghanistan, he sees the americans throwing their weight around the world and that has led to chaos because they have not respected russia's importance in these discussions. charlie: thank you very much. thank you for taking time for us. margaret: thank you, charlie. this makes john kerry's job this much harder to keep any
angie: anything that pain. the s&p jumps the last in three weeks as a crammed the worst carter since 2011. takes foundations china measures to bolster the economy, cutting down payments for first-time buyers. searching for a solution. google resolves the long-running patent dispute with microsoft. love them to "first up." -- welcome to "first up." i'm angie lau. we have breaking news at the