tv With All Due Respect Bloomberg October 14, 2015 11:00pm-11:31pm EDT
john: and i'm john heilemann. mark: i'm mark halperin. mark: "with all due respect" to those on the debate stage tonight, thanks for the shout out. >> with all due respect-- >> with all due respect-- >> with all due respect-- ♪ mark: the exodus from the desert well underway, the candidates, their surrogates, and the media making their way out of las vegas out of what was a reckoning. clinton, beset for months by controversy, held herself on stage much like maximus the gladiator. confident and with an
unmistakable look in her eyes that said, are you not entertained? you can get your fix on hillary and our postdebate takes online. tell us john, where does last night leave clinton in the fight for the democratic nomination? john: she came into this debate, for all of her troubles, she came in the front runner, she exited a stronger frontrunner than she was the day before. she pushed bernie sanders all over the stage. the other three candidates made very little impact. she is in a better place than she was. if she can get to this benghazi hearing strong and put this e-mail behind her, she will be in a good place headed into iowa and new hampshire. mark: i gave her an "a" and i don't normally give "a" on debate performances. it was not flawless, but it was so strong. the next closest i gave was to bernie at "b-" which is generous given how bad his performance was. hillary proved that she is a great debater, as she was in 2008. she was a lot like mitt romney.
he prepares carefully, things about what she wants to say. there wasn't anybody who came in last night that had the experience and preparation that she had. she could still stumble. i do know how this will affect bernie's numbers in iowa or new hampshire, but she has a lot on the line and performed brilliantly. john: she has a lot of flaws as a candidate, we agree. but she has some real strengths, and debating is one of them. she is very good at this. the thing of having gone through 16 debates with obama, 15-16, 8-9 forums, she's gone to the point where her preparation and relentlessness, which could be a problem for other candidates -- she prepares and put it behind her. it frees her to be the best version of herself on the debate stage. mark: perhaps some people may have been looking to see if hillary clinton would stumble last night. but it was the socialist septuagenarian, bernie sanders,
who lost his footing. we will discuss this later at length, but why do you think bernie stumbled? mark: debates are two parts, preparation and performance. the first leads to the second. senators don't think they need to prepare because hey, i debate all day, that's what being a senator is about. she came after him aggressively in beginning. i don't think he ever fully recovered. if he doesn't prepare more the next time, he's not a smart man. john: sanders' people are all saying he won. i don't think there is anything about this debate that will drive anybody away who was a bernie supported. but the reason he is supposed to be introducing himself to the american people, personally, was to expand his base of support, to broaden his appeal. i didn't see a single moment where he did anything intentionally or unintentionally that would gain him any voters. that is a failure to me, and it speaks to not just a lack of preparation, but also strategy.
mark: not just unprepared to combat clinton, but he smiled only twice by my count. he told no personal stories about average americans he wants to help. he did his schtick, but he had a bad night. even though cnn made it clear that vice president biden could show up at the last minute and still get in the debate, biden didn't show. our colleague got a chance to ask the vice president today at the white house about what he thought about the debate after watching it from afar. v.p. biden: i thought they did well. you have to actually make this system work. and i thought everyone of those folks -- i thought they all did well.
mark: also today hillary clinton's campaign chair told msnbc that if biden wants to enter the race, he is running out of time. >> look, he has been through a tremendous tragedy. we have been respectful about that. i think he deserves this space time to think that through, whether it was best for him to begin this new challenge. i think the time has come for a decision. mark: an unmistakable signal from the top of the clinton campaign. is there still room and time in this race for joe biden? john: the combination of kevin mccarthy's comments undermining the legitimacy of the benghazi committee and the e-mail inquiry, not total, but a lot of it. and then this performance by hillary clinton has made the terrain a lot tougher for joe biden.
also when hillary clinton laid down the gauntlet saying, joe, if you want to come into this race and be barack obama's inheritor, the inheritor of his legacy i'm going to fight you , for that. she pulled obama close all night. you could hear her shadowboxing with him. she made it tougher for him. mark: he can still get in in february if sanders beats her in iowa and new hampshire. but things are tougher for him now. after last night, people in the party are saying, we have our candidate. the establishment knows we want to pick the first woman candidate. if joe biden gets in, he's going to have to get a huge well-crafted speech explaining the rationale for his candidacy. not just "i'm here in case hillary clinton stumbles." john: normally candidates from the other party tried to play it cool and claimed they don't even watch the other side of the debates. last night, that was not the case. frontrunner donald trump live tweeted throughout the whole thing, and even mike huckabee's
we -- tweet got some attention. the republican candidates continued to talk about what they thought about last night's showdown. mr. trump: i think she did her job. i personally thought she won the debate. i thought bernie was off, he was not doing so well. i thought the other people should not even be up there, to be honest with you. a couple of them were ridiculous. >> she got bailed out by bernie sanders, who said "enough for that!" got a big laugh, and moved on. what do you make of that? >> they may not care about it, but the people in this country do. if you watch the debate, it looked like something from the early 1980's, a liberal versus liberal debate about who will give away the most free stuff. >> it was interesting they didn't go after her on the e-mail issue. i would have taken her to task on that. if i win the nomination, trust me, this would not end. john: then we have the consensus from the conservative media estblishment, fox news and the wall street journal
editorial board, which came down on the side of the notion that hillary won the debate, only because there were no strong challengers on the stage. let's listen to that. >> the overarching message you took? >> hillary clinton is going to be the nominee. >> it showed the weakness of the democratic field. we had a crumpy old bilbo baggins leading some left caucus meeting and then we had three midgets. >> she was debating a 74-year-old independent socialist from vermont and three guys who couldn't get a front page listing in a phone book. >> can you imagine on the stage, if no one went after donald trump? you have to wonder how committed to the other four are to winning if they won't take on the leader. >> bernie doesn't care about the emails. >> okay, so a lot of democrats don't care about the e-mails, right?
they just don't care. it goes to honesty. john: summing this up, most republicans believe that hillary clinton did indeed win the debate, but did nothing to prove that she is a formidable general election candidate. do you think they are right? mark: republicans were right that others on the stage were weak, and she did get to the left, but they are kidding themselves if they think last night was not scary for their chances. it hillary clinton performs like this, she will win iowa and new hampshire and be the nominee in the middle of february. the republicans will be fighting makingthe convention, their chances of winning the white house go down substantially. they have to be worried, or they are in denial. john: not just that. on the specific point of debates, look at hillary clinton on the stage. she was debating, they are right. bilbo baggins and three midgets, as karl rove put it.
what has been incredible on the republican state? there are some moments, but in terms of your debating and skills, there isn't any republican among the 16 candidates who is anywhere near as good as hillary clinton is. i think one of them may be able to go at her in the fall, but they have to take her seriously as a debating opponent in addition to a general candidate. mark: even though she wasn't one-on-one and doesn't have much one-on-one presidential debate experience, she is getting honed. she can adapt. these guys are in a stage with 15 people. it's going to be hard for anyone to emerge and take her on in critical debates. when we come back, we are going to go deeper inside bernie's very very bad vegas night, after these words from our sponsors. ♪
last night was not bernie sanders's best. the clinton campaign prepared big-time for the debate. the viewers were able to see that clearly. sanders, not so much. there were times when it showed. was take a look at one of the -- let's take a look at one of the big moments last night where clinton took off the gloves and got the upper hand, and sanders on the subject of capitalism. sen. sanders: we should look to countries like denmark, sweden, and norway, and learn what they have accomplished for their working people. host: you don't consider yourself a capitalist, though. sen. sanders: do i consider myself part of the casino capitalist process, where so little have so much and so much has so little, where wall street greed and recklessness has wrecked the economy? no i don't. host: anyone else on the stage that is not a capitalist? sec. clinton: let me follow up on that. when i think about capitalism, i
think about all the small businesses started. because we have the freedom in our country to do that and to make a good living for themselves and are families. i don't think we should confuse what we have to do every so often in america, which is save capitalism from itself. i think what senator sanders is saying certainly makes sense to the terms of the inequality that we have. but we are not denmark. i love denmark. we are the united states of america. it's our job to rein in the excess of capitalism so that it doesn't run amok and doesn't cause the kind of inequities that we are seeing in our economic system. but we would be making a grave mistake to turn our backs on what has built the greatest middle-class in the history of the world. john: mark? mark i love denmark, too. : but there is hillary clinton pushing bernie sanders way off to the left. dan pfeiffer, the communications director said, is he really a socialist?
if he's deep down a democrat, why does he keep clinging to these unpopular points of view? mark: it's like the globetrotters versus the washington generals. it's a complete mismatch. he was supposed to be the titan on the stage. and he was not the least the prepared for some and -- something controversial. he said this two days ago -- she did not lift something out of his college thesis. the fact that he didn't have an answer to knock out of the park was professional malpractice. she aggressively took him on early when the door was open to do it. and he was not ready. john: she did not hesitate at all. anybody who thought she would just stay in her lane and leave bernie alone learned that hillary clinton wanted to make clear she would be firing on all cylinders. the aggressiveness came through in a lot of places. that was certainly one of them. it was right out of the gate. she set down a marker early on
that this would be how she would conduct herself. mark: because he has done no mock debate, you saw him standing there awkwardly. he has no idea how to get back and win the exchange. he lost that exchange, and i don't think he won a single confrontational exchange with her all night. john: with look at another exchange that i think we both agree that he lost. clinton got in another hit shortly after that first one on one of the few subjects that she could carve out space to the left of sanders', which is guns. >> do you want to shield gun companies or not? sen. sanders: do i think that a gun shop in vermont that legally sells a gun to somebody, that that gun shop owner should be held responsible? i don't. on the other hand, where you have manufacturers and gun shops and manufacturers knowingly giving guns to criminals or aiding and abetting, of course
we should take action. >> secretary clinton, is bernie sanders tough enough on guns? sec. clinton: no, not at all. we have to look at the fact that we lose 90 people a day from gun violence. this has gone on too long. it's time the entire country stands up against the nra. [applause] the majority of our country supports background checks and even the majority of gun owners do. senator sanders did vote five times against the brady bill. since it was passed, more than 2 million prohibited purchases have been prevented. he also did vote, as he said, for this immunity provision. i voted against it. i was in the senate at the same time. it wasn't that complicated to me. it was pretty straightforward to me that he was going to get immunity to the only industry in america. everybody else has to be accountable, but not the gun manufacturers. john: so mark, here is bernie sanders getting used to giving
speeches to big crowds and not being challenged on anything. not only was he unprepared, but defending his position on guns, he sounded like something worse than a conservative. he sounded like a senator. "the bill was complicated, there were a lot of bad parts and good parts." hillary clinton saying, you are just wrong on this. it's not complicated all. mark: again, he has an unpopular position within the party. her rhetoric is more popular. the fact that he didn't think through, practice, and execute an answer on after the capitalist thing, probably the second most obvious vulnerability -- i call that professional malpractice. look at her demeanor. she is in command. he is looking pained and confused and unprincipled in the eyes of a lot of democratic activists. john: as you say, he looked like
a combination of of exasperated, sheepish, back on his heels. he is supposed to be the outsider candidate, the antiestablishment candidate. mark: the straight talker. john: last night he sounded all too often like the classic washington senator trying to make excuses for why he voted-- mark: doublespeak. he wants to be president. he needs to convince able he is a national candidate and he's someone who is visible and can be elected. that exchange didn't prove any of that. it proved to us the opposite. when we come back, one of the top political journalist in all the united states of america, our good friend jonathan martin of the new york times will join us. ♪
mark joining us now from vegas, : jonathan martin, our friend from the "new york times." you have a story up on the website about hillary clinton's performance may have chilled the biden movement and the biden moment. how much did that change his chances of getting an? -- getting in, do you think? jonathan: if you talk to folks who know joe biden, they say he's going to do this regardless because that is just who he is. but the fact is, if you watch that debate last night, and you are a friend or advisor of joe biden. you have to be candid with him and say, it's not clear what the ideological space for you is in his primary. furthermore, if the calculation was that hillary clinton is a wounded candidate, you have to reassess that you in light of -- that view in light of her performance last night, which was commanding by any measure. now the only opening, it seems like, is that there is a some future revolution about her e-mail usage that we have not seen that could be far more
damning than what we know as of now. john: jonathan, hillary has the benghazi meeting a little more than a week from now. that was always going going to be a high-stakes opportunity for her. given what is happened over the last two weeks, and given the context of this debate, does she have a chance next thursday to slam the door shut politically on her e-mail troubles? jonathan: if not slam it shut, at least put a pretty darn close to the hinges. it's a great opportunity on the heels of what kevin mccarthy said, her performance last night -- if she turns in a solid performance on the hill next week, right before the first filing deadline comes up in the democratic primary, then she is going to enhance her prospects. again, we don't know what the fbi investigation is going to yield. we can't get too far down the
road. if we assume the current fact that we know right now, then the -- the extent of her troubles, the combination of the mccarthy comments, performance last night, and a strong performance next week could really put her in a strong position to secure her place as the unambiguous democratic front-runner. mark: let's talk republicans. two familiar trump phenomenons. polls in south carolina show him way ahead. he did at least three long television interviews. something new in trump world, ivanka in washington dc spoke on camera about her dad. >> are you happy that your father is running for president? [laughter] ivanka: that's a complicated question. [laughter] "happy" is an interesting word. i'm incredibly proud of him. it's a very difficult thing to do.
and i see now just how difficult it is. he has achieved tremendous success. he was not a politician, he is not a politician. but he is really changing the dialogue. mark: jonathan, a little news i picked up the other day. ivanka expecting a baby due right around the iowa caucuses. how formidable will she be as a surrogate? jonathan: it depends on how much she wants to do. but those those comments your heard there are so starved. a departure from the tram trump brand we know. she sounds like a poised smart capable person. she could be an asset. it depends on how much trump wants to put her out there. it's his whims and instincts. if they put her out there more, he could put more of a human face on the trump phenomenon.
but it's a question of how much he wants to turn over control of the campaign from his twitter account. from his every thought. mark: i think she will be extraordinarily strong for him. john: real quick -- yesterday we saw carly fiorina, $6.8 million raised in the third quarter, a little bit more than marco rubio. among those two, who do think is playing the hotter hand, fiorina or rubio? jonathan: in terms of the elite folks in the party, no question that it is rubio. as far as rank-and-file voters, you hear a lot of talk about fiorina. a lot of elites in the party think that at some point hp will take hold, for people will get over the fact that she can't be president. but it's october, and you are hearing her name more and more. mark: jonathan, thanks for joining us. enjoy vegas, and we will be right back. ♪ john: for more of our insights
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