tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg November 19, 2015 7:00pm-8:01pm EST
like nemo president obama .efended his we are not well served when it was wants to terrorist attack we defended eric fanning. on don't make good decisions hysteria or an exaggeration of wrist. like he also calls the the entry of syria e.g.. >> we will admit-year-old orphan. the political posturing. individuals say we should have a religious test and that only christians prevent christians should be admitted
that is offensive and contrary to american values. morenot think of a recruitment tool for isis than some of the rhetoric that has been coming out of during the course of this debate. the white house released a statement thing president veto screening bill. he serves as deputy natural security advisor. thank you for doing this. my eye charlie. give me a sense of what we can do that what we know about the attack that place harris. the operation as you know
is ongoing early this morning. the french undertook as i understand it in operation in paris to go after those. league we are in the are in constant communication area i've been in touch with the burlesque days with counterparts in paris. the french are going after the waters vigorous the we are working very closely with them area flex the one everyone is talking about, the ringleader. has it been confirmed that he was there? >> i will let the in.ch into the specifics we do not have any confirmation.
quite certainly that's what the french investigators in the french counterterrorism professionals are very focused on. it is a we are also working with on. this investigation of old. they certainly are not retreating friday. they will be vigilant as we are against the attempt. like you are the first person in the white house to advise the and on the issues. what you learn what is in the life but we know is terrorist act involved. we have to evolve with them. that's we've been doing in line relentless pressure against isolated leadership. against its messaging and frankly area that we are doing a rocket area. we are doing in areas or weird signs that isis might establish
another foothold is why we took theiraction against leaders in libya just last weekend. saying they've evolved and we have involved. how they involve the on the idea of strategy. >> isil presents a different type of threat than we have seen in the past with al qaeda. they are less centralized. they are using social media in a way that is very different than al qaeda has the past. they are using it to recruit to radicalize. they have a global theory of establishing a caliphate is why we are lying this is pressure on the in iraq and syria where they have tried to take territory of
wanting their momentum and pushing them i. holding territory is a reason thing and recruitment for isil. back that's aem source of going at their source of strength. sophisticated? >> it certainly the case that al was to focus on the far enemy and on public attack. and we've seen a different roach historically with isil. we talked about their use of social media older followers. paris ishat you saw in partly that. but also clearly an effort to undertake a terror rampage of the kind we have seen and trying
to extol their followers to do over the last year. benefit mainlye from the telephone was likes we will take that information. the french will take that information along with the names of the attackers. what they view as they will share that information with us and with others and we all will be information that we have built up over a decade. with our sources. we will keep together and share that information back to the french that we all collectively will have a better picture. click much is instead about the app using in the option. can you help us understand what that red is to the investigation into every occasion between
members of these terrorist? what we've seen is with the evolution of technology and the evolution of terrorist use technology in the criminal use of that technology is on the one media to use of social about the message that out to enlist through radicalize. conversation to an encrypted channel. supply the type of operational purity that is entailed in his been used to conduct the law. law enforcement and intelligence agencies cannot get at. that is what we are trying to work with companies in the avid sector on help them understand.
even as he also very strongly value privacy security benefit use of strong actions. it provides untold benefit. recognize that both of these pieces are initiatives. sure you've been off this by the president of the people. if they can do this in paris, and do this in the u.s. smart lisa: we will not be complacent we have to be vigilant. treat harris is a one-off. that's not only. i think it's also to amy. a robust architecture over the last decade of military intelligence and on expense sharing information to identify to disrupt.
we have to be right 100% of the time. terrorists and attackers only have to get it right once. that's the challenge we face but we are not living up. will be vigilant to disrupt attacks to share information to work with our partners, we will not be complacent. charlie: did you have report that an attack was about to take place in paris? lisa: i think the director spoke to this. we have been concerned and aware of their desire to attack the west. they both in blatantly. charlie: that's generally not pacific. lisa: right. we did not have pacific information about the plot. andertainly had information were aware of the desire of high school and leadership to hit at the west.
it at a target in europe. but we did not submit information about these targets. charlie: did we know about this group? lisa: with respect to the leader, we have certainly been focused on him. he is amongst the leadership and isil. a key figure. said, we have placed relentless pressure on them see that is a. begins jihaditive john the brutal murderer. been going have after the rest of the leadership iraq.ing the deputy in we also to them off the battlefield. again why we did the straight last weekend against the leader
of isil in libya. lisa: >> charlie: do you believe that their primary defense? place pressureto on their leadership. against an on waters and attackers were ever they are. whether iraq syria or elsewhere area you're also going after their by-line. that's the money man of materiality which is why the operation must to cut off the critical eye line between basel and rocco. those strongholds. charlie: what is the other planks? lisa: going after the leadership treating their safe haven severing the supply line denying them safe haven both visible and
digital terms of the messaging may have. and in building our partners. 15,000 iraqirained security forces. we lying are partners in the her toyria arabs are in close the border between syria and turkey. we worked very effectively with the workers to close hundreds of alum elizabeth order. we have about a hundred kilometers lap and we are working with turkey. we're putting more assets to the base in turkey. we fly missions from there to pressure. and leasable -- and lethal strike. charlie: only measures us? lisa: we will measure success by shrinking the a haven and making of a square i sold and no longer
charlie: continue our conversation about the paris attack now. robert gates joins us from philadelphia. mr. secretary thank you for joining us. robert: thank you charlie. charlie: only what reality inc. acted harris is change. robert: i think you need to look at what happens in paris alongside of the bombing of the russian airliner over the sinai and the marketplace attack in beirut. within the space of three weeks threeaunched major attack very different laces using three very different technique. i think it speaks to the way in which their ability to reach
beyond the area that they control syria and iran has expanded. we see that they are active in libya is well. made progress in establishing control of the central part of that entry. i think that this is a movement that reaching well beyond the boundaries of the territory that they conquered syria and in iraq. think that measures the magnitude of the kind of challenge that we face. charlie: the understanding of the strategy of war and strategy is now the strategy should. robert: i think that the linesgy has been ryan people in iraq and syria who are willing to take on isis with our health and the health of others.
so that we don't have troops on the ground that the arab kurds and others are out in front of this conflict. and we have been able to iraqi versus with our health have been able to take that some towns. they been able to take back the major oil refinery. although the towns in the oil refinery workers and destroyed. it has been a very gradual process and one that looks to as the administration is dead taking three to five years. think what we've seen in the last week suggest that at a minimum you need to be a significant incentive case for. personally i think the idea of introducing western true american troop on the ground is probably not a good idea.
i think it would aggravate the problem area there is no indication by the way that the iraqis would welcome those buses on the ground. she made a big picture never to put together a coalition to send in ground forces in the iraqis turn around and say thanks but no thanks and where are you smart i think the strategy needs to focus on may on an intense dictation -- intensification of the things we are already doing. will defendclients their own territories and help them and it may mean helping them directly. i think we need to loosen the rules of engagement for our's is that are already there. forces to allow special more operating space. we need to have embedded trainers and advisers.
the sunni tribes in the. i think we need to have their controllers and partners to help coalition aircraft be more precise and better targeting. one of the things we've talked about or not heard anyone talk about is the potential or what western intelligence service is polluting the i-8. infiltrating sabotage and other activities make life harder for isis. i think there are a number of things like this that we can do without spending a lot more to the man. without aggravating the situation if you will in terms of turning on the ground against because we're back in the. the president said this take a while. what we need to do is reinforced we're doing that is a clear strategy is right in the you doing.
when you say that you have special forces there, you're saying we do more of them risk by that on the embedding them but also among frontline where they can both attack their spotters is well as to the a. the president has said we are at war. war is inherently risk. we're going to do anything we will have to those are people to greater risk. both those in uniform and those working for our intelligence service is. i think in terms of the other thing we haven't talked about the potential threat here at home. there i think one thing jon runyan the cia director talked about where there ought to be a reversal of some of the constraints of the been put on the 38. i don't millions into that but i think that the president on the congress rather urgently onto
all in the director of nsa and a what capabilities do you have that you are prevented from using and if we allowed you to use them how they make a difference mark that gives you a basis on which to decide what is there is thing. the argument is made that we really need to be more and to the troops on the ground. as the former secretary of defense, what is possible you may be commitments and there was an exception -- acceptance of it on the iranians how long would it take, what would you do #will happen to the core leadership. to mark robert: first of all i think those are two to take itself truth. but i think if this thing siobhan the lace.
first it depends on how many troops want to area again the idea that you're going to get turkish unit going in there saw the units going in there saudis are pretty be occupied in yemen. the notion they are going to fight on the second run i think is highly questionable. where the arab going to come from? we've been training the iraqis. over time they seem to be getting better. as we've seen with the approach to cutting off ices and ramadi, it takes a long time get good about ied is another thing. iraqi forces are going to be there but that's to be a fairly slow process as well. if you are talking about u.s. troops presumably you are talking about tens of thousand of. that would take many months i think to organize and get their.
i think people need to appreciate caps off did the army is particular after almost 15 years of war. equipment shortages training shortages so on. this is more complicated -- sending in a major u.s. first not only has he will asian, but just the sheer logistics of it is a major problem is well. especially the urgency is what's on your mind. do you think what you just ask the views of the top military leaders? robert: i talked to them. i would be willing to wager that it is. charlie: they are very reluctant fully engage american combat troops on the ground in order to move as fast as they can against-.
so what's the mission they are going to be given a smart is it going to be to destroy rocket? if the city of hundreds of thousands of people area how will they figure out who is ices and is smart do they think the army is madison avenue on the march formation or will they most of the population? and then what we do even if her to take the mark we're not going to defeat isis by taking that territory. i get it in terms of undermining the narrative of the caliphate. street toward military standpoint, you have not told their army. these their headquarters of their army has dissipated into the. presumably they still hold basel and other places. the idea that -- just about what
to liberate falluja the first time. for the second time. what it took to liberate some of these other iraqis are these in terms of the number of u.s. casualties in the iraq war. basel of the city of a million. matet think people under a even from a military stand point the difficulty. and then there question is what is the political side of this equation? who's going to come in and provide government? who will come in and provide the all once we've carried out this military mission. the civilian side of our efforts to we. it is not the kind of robust as it would be necessary to follow up on something that. charlie: the president said we
have to do two things. isecond that we have to do in conflict between sunni and shia in iraq. return to syria. do you think it's wise, how would you handle this demand on him of america will listen partners like the always and liked her their first intention is to over row bashar al-assad power? robert: this is one of the challenges that face us in dealing with isis. that is almost everybody in the region has their own agenda. many of them whether it is the ,alaries of the turks or others isis is not the top five.
impeding with iran in the case of the these the turks are preoccupied with her. of course as you suggested the saudis and others who say the first thing you have to do is get rid of song. we have the russians and others saying us off at stay and we will take your advice is that we will europe and. the truth is finding some way to stop area or is a critical piece feeding isis. as i said war, i do think that we should try and doubtless saving them in syria and particularly further to the east away from the so we can basically tell the russian look is not a threat to the side as the humanitarian never. we're not going to be in conflict your military. basically stay out of our way. going to try and create with the
turks and with others in the region that hopefully will feel with -- begins to ameliorate the minute. prices in europe and the rest of the region. all of these mixed agenda is different layers makes trying to go this problem just. it does not seem anybody is on the same page as anybody else. what you think about his effort? corporation to make with my charlie: robert: i think the first thing to understand about the military intervention in syria as their way back to the table after you. season is demonstrating that russia is a great power that must be reckoned with and that any solution to problems in syria involved russia at the
table and maybe even as chair. this is the reassertion of russia's role that role in the world. this is what religion is all about. syria as a mechanism to do this. exactly a sentimental fella. can find another ally. who will guarantee the russians can you that to that naval base tardis. i think he would throw us on over to the side he thought it was the russian interests. termsecies is very broad -- more broad terms and area. this is about russia's latest. how is he playing cards? playing a very we can extraordinary ill. charlie: should the u.s.
response him: robert: i think we out to the side of our strategy is how we will deal with the situation syria and with isis together. with our priority is which is our priority? getting rid of the side of the air of business with isis first. we need to decide our strategy and then decide how much of this is that. charlie: we don't have a strategy right now. robert: i think we have the strategy that the resident related on isis but i don't think we have one with this act of the middle east of the whole. or with respect to syria. think we've basically been very passive about syria. charlie: you know the jordanians
you know the egyptian. you know all these layers. what they want us to do? robert: i think they want us to leave. i think they want us to have a strategy to know that we will be there for them. that we are not leaving the middle east will have a military resident. -- i think we should have articulated a very tough around you. at the same time the nuclear deal is the gains reassure our allies. toughgoing to be very without any iranian efforts is the money that they get lifting sanctions. the metal in the region that will resist that we're going to work with our partners in the region to do that not just arms sales to the arabs and israelis, but it is military resident terry deployment intelligence operations. .n the scene
it is a comprehensive approach to dealing with iran that you release is not best clearly have not interested in changing its way. takeie: so they will not the behavior. there anything we can do to get them to change their behavior. let's i think of all the often be very careful about lifting theons to ensure that actions they are supposed to have taken they had taken. i worry that if we ignore the little things that we will end up ignoring the big. when thean by that is head of the guard went to moscow, that is a violation of the u.s. security council resolution and yet we said and did not. york elites ofew the first broken windows. when you ignore the little stuff
-- the little problems the big problem seemed, more often. i think we have to be rigorous holding the iranians to be agreement that they may in terms of the un security council resolution and not let sanctions until the early have done what they have pledged to do. that is one thing we need to do. then i think we need to just be here that we are not going to give them open field running in that region. we will not off for a relationship with iran in place of the relationship with our sunni friends friends for decades. we will resist. charlie: your judgment that we have not clear signal that we will resist kind things? with iranians and the others? robert: i do not believe we've done. clearly not. and you think they have responded? as you might ask including
russia and iran and isis? robert: the ayatollah has made very clear that iran is not going to change it strategy in the middle east one bit. they're going to continue to pursue the regional ambitions. metal in parts of the middle east. -- that they think with time that time is on their side. i think we need to be clear about that. the russians have essentially asked her lot with the iranian in terms of where we are in the area. truth, that may be a long-term problem because the ina are significant minority the islamic world. majority. by far the
charlie: former british foreign secretary kansas now. what is your responsibility as president of the international across 22nity? david: u.s. cities read that we resettle refugees u.s.. the bulk of our staff and volunteers are in war zones. where their record number of refugees. organizationtarian taking people across borders looking for some security. area area bute
also the wars like an innocent amalia. causedevents in paris problems in terms of the little debate? at least one of them had come across as a refugee. yes it has cost of a but don't fall for that allegation yet. passport is not shown to be a fake and we don't yet know that any of them were closing of refugees. it is undoubtedly the case that the horror of harris has brought a degree authorization to the politics around passion the business is. the u.s. is related significant are by its geography and partly the result of 9/11. understanding organizations like minded to resettle people in the u.s. always said an efficient and effective purity seating process is an essential part of
a successful refugee resettlement program area in the u.s. he asked the usa has an excellent one. refugees have come here to help me their lives contribute to the country. charlie: you sure those people that the u.s. has done an effective job of checking bee gees as they come in. isid: the interesting thing not just the state department is 12 to 15 different ages including the intelligence ones they do background checks and biometric checks his follow-up once here will resident the three-year. of course the seriousness with which purity screening to is one reason so few syrian rue of the last wars because the processes lt thinking to 24 month and only 2000 or so syrian u.s. of a years. charlie: should we be doing more? david: i believe so yes.
more in the region humanitarian low on countries like lebanon and jordan. remember lebanon has over a million refugees has the thousand those countries are creasing strain. in this country refugee resettlement one way of sharing the load. one way is standing with people in desperate need. that's something the u.s. has stored the been a leader on. in the leadership mantle is -- after germany at the moment. it seems the policy to recognize change area when merkel the policy in the summer she was recognize the reality that there were 300,000 or so's area and already in germany. charlie: you agree with the president and his eloquence and compassion in welcoming
refugees. david: i think that's an important part of this country also refugees have been as historian is true. lives.their the american experience is that if you teach them the language view is still get onto employment in their is cap shipment and be there is a program of integration to create productive and patriotic as an. charlie: where's your worry then that among refugees are people who need that mean harm wherever they land mark2 there is david: that's people who are seeking to develop the new athens investments in themselves among fiji's. they're not refugees they are by definition something else. the use of cover. david: you can use the title of the people is. because the geography of charter
back the vast number of people have here a plane. situation in europe is different because of thousands of miles orders much more or as a much more challenging. of course the security challenge in europe is one that we've been talking about more than three or four week. we as a nation of the money every year the pressure inside syria and the pressure inside afghanistan and the pressure and neighbors they was going to leave people to throw it all in come trying to europe. with tragic consequences for many and with an overwhelming challenge now the european union and all the first. about's the security. that undermine physical refugee resettlement. my two greatest worries are first of all my is that.
with 2000 staff and volunteers delivering health care in syria. and we have people doing started working with challenging as. the second thing i worry about is that at a time when the world is coming. global interdependence. some of them closer and closer connection across the world the danger is the country's turning off. trying to shut themselves off from the world. in the wake of paris there is always that kind of reaction. the job of leadership obvious the to show compassion for them in the way systems and managed with the integration of nations and people. of course it's my worry that 20 million refugees and the million internally to death internally with people within the country that the humanitarian commitments see.
that means a hell of a lot more misery around world. charlie: does the vetting process get busy? david: the important thing is always work with the fact. there is no evidence for the u.s. that the system is broken down. very important that it works well. the challenge to europe is to emulate that. charlie: you think this is political rhetoric? you allow 10,000 people in the 9999 of them are innocent bullfighting action and feeling of depression and one of them is a well-trained isis fighter. what if we get one of them wrong? just one of them wrong and mark david: i've said in the week not as an interior minister visit portman is. they're always very difficult decisions and difficult judgment. what i've learned is you. these systems that are robust. what i've seen of the u.s. 12 to
15 different ages these will simply a biometric test. no refugees has committed an act of terrorism. what i have seen is stimpmeter very diligent and very well-built. if you're in positions of authority, the key thing is to sugars well as robust and keeping up with the latest challenges. remember it's harder to get the u.s. is refugee them through any other room. suffer together as refugees and any other way. because your all caps. arab states are not following the 1951 convention. there is significant number of
union in the states. many of them in there for many years. many what does my workers gone from syria -- should they stay that the -- should the state be a bigger part of it? i would argue yes. charlie: but you probably argue everyone should. david: those who are able to show it and the richer play that role. i'm would like to see humanitarian updated with you that the modern world. the book of refugees today are not in refugee and they are in urban areas. go to lebanon. we have to update the system. when refugees arrive in lebanon turkey, what can you say about that? is desperatelyy to we. their cry is save me from hell.
i met a family last week and they said we are from aleppo. it's hell. with bombs from the afghans on one side terabytes is on the other we had generations of aleppo behind me but i had to leave everything because i had nothing left. those people, what i feared. felt there's ai lot of folks there. like a light at the end of it. .he situation in lebanon they don't do much opportunity to get to europe the u.s.. that's the image. these are middle-class lean syria.
there business people teachers. they're the people who knew middle-class life there is. the have nothing. that's what leads to death able to try and cross the aegean and terrible circumstances and terrible. charlie: that makes it even more needed to have his ire and syria and the way to her. david: to protect civilians there. the bombardment in the terror and this of civilians in syria. it's a parallel the moment. defining humanitarian caster of this century. the longer goes on the worst the options you. charlie: viewers g to combat isis? david: that's a complex question. there are obvious things is a military dimension. an ideological dimension but i think the biggest and i see when i think about iraq and where i am in lebanon and jordan, the
biggest thing is a sunni political alternative to. where i live is on the argument sunni communities of middle east that there is no additive political representation. -- without that from within the islamic world in the case of iraq and neighboring states, there needs to be an alternative. now the military and other elements around about that. without that defining little alternative is very hard. of course that dilemma. assad is the great recruiting sergeant. charlie: especially among sunnis. in the same thing the president that. if we want to combat isis to find cease-fire or pieces area.
we have to find allusions to the conflict is anything she is in iraq. engage au can really major effort to stop isis. david: i think isis is learning the next. has some publication. i think that the way i would put it is the first priority is to protect civilians and. every bomb that struck by saw it kills civilians. it's a recruiting tool crisis. i think the scale of it the structure remember it 78% in syria. charlie: their primary argument is we are against us on. david: the problem is they are the only one can represent any communities in the face of us on.
charlie: they are the most effective. david: their columnist on the process. ands obvious the structural the mental and. writes: simply syrian crisis. at minimum a regional crisis in the european crisis. the striking thing for me visiting lebanon where we now have 200 staff working to make sure refugees arrive are able to get a modicum of how. charlie: has the refugee crisis increase the amount of collectivity on the part of far right nationalist is #david: in europe was happened is the mix of the debate about refugees in the debate about migration coming together about refugees
is what is you'll a sense of anger that has in floated by all right. refugeesnk to say that fleeing persecution is different from an immigrant who simply seeking a better life. not one good and one is that they are different. charlie: you describe migration is what david: seeking an economic better life in trying to go from one place where there board to close with them i be better off. charlie: different people who are leaving area for fear of their life from oppression is my. they should be called refugees. david: and it's not to talk about it as a migrant rises. refugee isis. and it's not a matter of being clinically correct the matter being correct. the refugee has a right within international law and states receiving refugees of obligation in international law.
john: with all due respect to hillary clinton, i'm not wearing a wig either. ♪ mark: in the red corner tonight, ben carson versus donald trump. marco rubio versus ted cruz. but first, in the blue corner, clinton versus sanders. the top candidates had dueling speeches today. clinton spoke about her plan to fight isis, and sanders gave an address on democratic socialism. we will talk about both speeches in depth tonight and ask