tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg December 7, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm EST
>> from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. charlie: growing links to international terrorism in this weeks shooting in san bernardino. one of the suspect was in communication with folks in the united states and abroad who have links to terrorism. his wife pledged allegiance on facebook prior to the attack. searches of the suspects home uncovered all making equipment, dozens of pipe bombs and thousands of rounds of ammunition. let me begin with what we know that is new.
update us on what has happened in the last 18 hours. >> the big news this morning is that facebook posting and which the young mother pledged allegiance to isis. that is important because it draws a distinction that this could have been isis inspired. federal officials are not saying if this was isis directed, and that is an important distinction. the couple had deleted some of their online presence prior to the attack. that indicates that this was premeditated. the big arsenal of weapons and ammunition they had at their home also indicates that it was premeditated. charlie: some people are asking did they have a series of attacks they wanted to make and
then something happened at the work party, and therefore they decided to pursue that and later go on to do other attacks. what is the thinking about their planning? >> that is an open question. they certainly had the ammunition to carry out multiple attacks and have the atrocities be much worse had they been able to continue carrying them out. that is the fear. we still don't know if they were planning -- perhaps the holiday party was the tipping point for the shooting. week just don't know yet. charlie: do we know whether he was radicalized -- certainly, by his wife, but also when he went
to saudi arabia? >> he went to saudi arabia to pick her up after they met on an online dating site. we know the fbi did not have him on a terror watch list. they had no record of him. they had not interviewed him, but he had contact, we believe, with people who were on that list. it still too early to draw any conclusions about what that means, but he may have had contact with them. that is the concern about homegrown terrorism. isis has been concerned with having americans carry out attacks in america instead of traveling to syria to join the fight over there. the threat of isis attacks at home, the fear of that is growing with every new piece of information we have learned today.
charlie: what exactly did she say on facebook? >> i have not seen the facebook post. it was deleted. that is why the media did not have it prior to the attack. the couple had deleted their media presence. i don't have the actual wording. i don't know anybody does at this point. charlie: have authorities released information about anyone who may have noticed their growing radicalization? >> not that i am aware of. we did hear from someone at the mosque that mr. farook attended. he was described as someone who was quiet, devoted to his faith. he went to the mosque twice a day every day.
we are learning more about that. we are learning more about his childhood. he was born in illinois. he grew up in southern california. his father was known to be prone to alcohol abuse and physical abuse. we are learning more about the childhood. that is what we have so far. charlie: and what do we know about when they took their child to the grandmother -- the mother -- the grandmother of the child? >> don't know that we know a lot more about that. yesterday when the police chief in san bernardino was talking about how he didn't know where the child was at the moment, the family is cooperating with law-enforcement. they did retain a lawyer. i would think we would be hearing perhaps more from them soon. but we don't know where that child is right now, just that it got dropped off with the grandmother and is perhaps still with her. charlie: good to see you.
the guardian called it thought-provoking, insightful, and very funny. here is a look. >> people say it's true. what it wants is a grain of truth. by opening this thing up. people hate mimes. >> a lot of jokes you get in our lampooning the sort of person who rates the new yorker. it's a society that takes itself very seriously, so it's begging for it. >> i like the idea, but not this idea, necessarily. charlie: joining us are the stars of the documentary, the
new yorker editor and the new yorker cartoonist. have you seen the movie? do you like the movie? >> i love it. she did a fantastic job. she started showing up at our office with funding from kickstarter, and i thought student production, but what the hell, let's be nice. the end result is this amazing, touching, hold area spanning -- hilarious thing. charlie: how did you do it? >> it took a long time. i said hey, bob, i just graduated from new york film school and i want to make a lm about the cartoon department. >> we have been waiting for you. >> come back in 10 years. charlie: hello, makeup? craig's he said who do you think you are that you can waltz in here out of film school and make a film about our cartoon
department? >> the caption contest was her entrée in. what happened is, over the years, i think she got to know the new yorker and new yorker cartoonists as well as anybody. >> the cast of characters is kind of interesting. charlie: made for a documentary. >> yes, all of these different spirits, intelligences, and radically different personalities. charlie: and looks. >> we are not about looks here
at the new yorker. [laughter] there is a senior generation that has been around for a while, and then this younger cast, that bob and i have been working really hard to bring in, because it's a very hard thing to rotate who is there. you only get a few shots a week. everybody wants to be in, naturally. this new cast of cartoonists, some have been around for a while. some have just waltzed in. it is astonishing. >> why, why? >> just keep watching the movie. charlie: did you have to go to his office and say guess what? they want to make a movie about us. >> in different languages. >> the new yorker opened up at one time to a lot of these things. i think we had a really
interesting story to tell. i think it's the only place that does humor that has an intergenerational range of people in their 80's and people in their 20's, and people in every single decade. in terms of that type of diversity, it's very unusual. charlie: what story did you want to tell? >> that was part of the problem. there were so many stories i could tell. it doesn't have an inherent plot. i am focusing on the institution. am i focusing on the personalities of the cartoonists? once i started meeting the cartoonists, i realized i wanted to tell the story about how this art form has persisted for generations and why there are 20-year-olds who want to be part of this.
there is something special about the way cartoonists' minds work and how they help those of us who are lovers of the cartoons see the world in a different way. the only place left they can publish their work is the new yorker. >> that is a tough thing. 75 years ago, there were a whole lot of magazines the published cartoons. if your cartoon was rejected by the saturday evening post, he would take it somewhere else and be able to make your way. there is a real responsibility to this form we value so much. there are political cartoons of a certain kind, but this particular form is really the new yorkers. charlie: does it include the cover? >> the cover is a different
operation. language is not involved. the cover has an editor who is working mainly with a different set of artists. there is some overlap. there you don't have a caption. there is something so touching in the film where i think they are talking about all different kinds of artists, telecasters and all of the lighting guys. for this, you need a pencil. charlie: why did you want to be a cartoonist? >> my father brought home some books of edward gorey and gain wilson and i remember saying to myself whatever this is, i want this.
they did not take the new yorker, but they brought home books now and again. charlie: so, from five on you wanted to be a cartoonist. >> it was nice. i had my path already laid out for me. [laughter] the long road. [laughter] >> we have a cartoonist who quit being a doctor to be a cartoonist. charlie: can you imagine? you could have been what? >> you did your residency? charlie: four years of medical school, two years as an internist, four or five years as a resident.
>> and he made the right decision. charlie: let's talk a little bit about the list because leah worked very hard on this. first is the origin of cartoons. >> the new yorker began as a comic weekly. the cartoons -- or the drawings, they were called, that was right there from the very first issue in february, 1925. they were to provide delight and a spirit of the magazine.
charlie: is this a solitary decision as to what goes in the magazine? do you make this decision and say i have 15 slots, show me your best 30? >> bob will say yes, but the answer is no. emily and a lot of other cartoonists will typically send in five, 10 or more what is called rough drawings. they will send them in any way, e-mail, fax, envelope. and bob and his assistants call through hundreds of roughs and get 50 or more. then we meet on a wednesday and get 15. we want to get a sense to make sure we are getting enough diverse topics, that we are
getting a lot of voices in. too many of so and so, not enough of so and so? and we want to make sure that the new yorker in the future that isn't there now happens. we have a lot of everybody writing for the new yorker, people of color and all the rest. that cartoonists are a very small bunch of people. we need to make the group more diverse. bob has a program to do so. that is very important. that is obviously not the subject of a typical weekly meeting, but it's something we are working on. charlie: cartoonists can do what that other forms of media cannot do? >> they can move quickly. they are not going to pile up on somebody's nightstand.
>> it immediately makes the point and brings together these different frames of reference. it can deal with all sorts of things. right after 9/11, it was even able to do all of that. everyone said iron he is dead and we are not going to laugh anymore. we had a cartoon of a man looking at a guy with a gerrish jacket and saying i thought it would never laugh again until i saw that jacket. they are not stand up. they are a unique form. the people in the films say you need a certain type of mind to make it happen, and make it happen 10 or 15 times a week because we do it every week. that is what we are selecting from. charlie: here is an open pitch meeting for cartoons.
>> this is a picasso joke. my eyes are over here. >> i lost so much weight i have room for a summer intern. >> they are sumo wrestlers. >> so crazy. a little cat? in a suit. >> you have seen everything. charlie: did you know you would find so much humor, so much fun, so many people having a very good time? >> that i knew right away. i saw how much fun they had together. i think what i was surprised about was all the rest, how much they are using humor to cope with the rest of what is going on in their lives. charlie: cartoonists or other people?
>> cartoonists and the people who read the cartoons. that is what i ended up making a film about is the way we use humor to cope. why do you become a cartoon it -- well, he talks about that. why do you, cartoonist question markets because you see the world differently. we'll maybe the world has treated you a little bit differently. >> i would have teased me too, if i had been in a position to do such a thing. i think getting teased as a kid is almost a prerequisite for becoming a cartoonist. you have to look at the world a little bit differently, and there is no reason to do it unless you are forced to. you need that struggle.
charlie: there is the story of you, leah, you are right out of film school. you want to make a film. to go to the funding you went to, the confidence you must have had to do this. other people get out of film school and get a job to learn the craft. leah: i had a job. when you are an independent filmmaker, you are doing so many things and pursuing your passion project. >> did you go to hbo first? leah: of course i try to pitch the idea. the idea sells itself. charlie: so why didn't they all say let's make it so that you didn't have to go to kick starter? leah: i don't know. [laughter] charlie: what was the toughest part for you?
leah: how much my life changed as i was making the movie. it took so long, in that chapter my life. i had two kids over the course of making the film. learning to stay present as a mom and a filmmaker. i was working on the film after they went to bed at night, in between nannies and schools. that was the most challenging part was trying to incorporate my life and be an independent filmmaker. >> the film is very funny thanks to the cartoonists and bob and leah's eye, but it is also very human. all of these people are going through something. bob had a big loss in his family that happened while this film was being made. when i saw this, i thought it was going to be a can of yuks
about our weekly meeting. it is so much deeper, and more human, and more humane. charlie: because a got into the lives of the characters. >> in a nonfiction book, you can tell one story if the writer doesn't stick around for a while. when the writer stays the next week, and the next year, and things start to change, and the pat answers don't cover how they really live, and where they really are, it's an amazing thing to watch. the same thing is clearly going on in documentary filmmaking. charlie: did you actually say -- >> no. [laughter]
>> plausible deniability. charlie: i was looking for the line that you say is never clear to you. what is the line? >> a cartoon i did in 1993 which is a guy looking at his address book saying no, thursday is out. how about never? is never good for you? and now that line is on everything. i own the copyright, so any time you use that -- [laughter] >> no kidding. it's on things you can purchase on amazon. charlie: how about never? is never good for you?
[laughter] charlie: so, is there another famous line that has come out of your mouth? >> i think a lot of us say lines that come from our lives. i did once say a cartoon that neuroticy erotic -- self, a guy in a board room saying that while i don't think we should panic right now, i think it only prudent that we make preparations to panic. i think my whole life is making preparations to panic. >> in the whole history of cartooning, bob is the man who created a genre of lemmings. lemmings go over the mountain, but then they start to fall and they all go up. and the caption is what lemmings believe. >> cartoonists get fast track.
-- fact checked. and they say you know lemmings don't actually commit suicide. [laughter] >> and i say to the fact checkers "shh." charlie: could the new yorker exist without the cartoons? >> no. and it is a strange formula. you are reading a 10,000 word article about hillary clinton or the war in the sudan, but while you are turning the pages and god willing reading intently, your eye flashes to a cartoon. it's part of the odd mix that is the new yorker. when harold ross invented the magazine, that was genius, because it made sure that you made through the magazine once, and not only did you read the cartoons, because it is clearly the first thing everybody does, clearly, it also gives you a first look about how you might go about reading it, what is
there. i think if you invented it today, a magazine with no photographs on the cover, gags in the middle of long pieces, i don't think that any billionaire would necessarily bite. i think what you need is an editorial vision and readers who will love it. >> until 1972, there was no table of contents. >> he is to say it's none of the reader's business. [laughter] >> and the writers by-line at the end of the article. >> if you want to find it, search for it. is that too much to ask? >> not a bad thought. [laughter] charlie: are cartoons changing?
i think they are when you have the generations. people. we want them to be more things for more people at more times. charlie: looking at your humor get at the friars club, you a new kind of joke but as "saturday night live" discovered when they went looking more widely, they got different kinds of jokes. thank you all. congratulations. >> thank you. rrp back in a moment. tay with us.
charlie: gloria steinem is here. she is a feminist icon. a writer. an i.n.s. frigse generations of women and men. she has led an extraordinary life of act vism and writing. my life on the road is her first book in more than 20 years. it reflects on her decades of championing women's rights. she received the presidential medal of freedom from president obama. i'm pleased to have her back at this table. gloria: thank you very much.
charlie: is there any award you have not received? loria: many. charlie: you might not have been given it by another president? gloria: fortunate. henry hyde has probably damaged more women's lives than anybody. charlie: the congressman from illinois. gloria: was given a medal of freedom. it went a lot to me because it came from president obama. charlie: how do you think he is doing? gloria: well, you know, i have such respect and empathy for him because he is dealing with an ultraright-wing wing that if they had cancer and he had the cure, they would not accept it. i have never seen -- charlie: do you believe that? gloria: i believe that. i think the hatred is so huge that although it is certainly
not the majority of the country at all, it is maybe 20% 30,% tops but it has a lot of influence. and i admire him because he is always trying to talk, trying to reach out, as some people would say too much. charlie: some people say not enough. they do. gloria: i don't know. charlie: that h he did not use the office in that way in reaching out enough. gloria: that has to do with the social criticism that -- charlie: exactly. gloria: a guy who drinks beer. charlie: the notion that ronald reagan and tip o'neill would do battle all day and then at night have a scotch and try to talk took into account world. gloria: they did. i can imagine tip o'neill doing it but i can't imagine ronald reagan doing it. he didn't care that much about
detalse tail. he was always reading off his california behavioral institute cards. charlie: reagan has some interesting traits in terms of some of the things -- he wrote a lot perfectly he used to write all of those speeches. they were not written by someone else. you can like them or not. gloria: the most -- you have resurrected an ancient memory that ronald reagan actually as president of the united states alled me in paris -- charlie: yes. as president? loria: as president. it turned out to be true. he was making calls that arguably should not have been made by a secretary in the white house. he was making them himself to ask people to do television ads about products, byproduct
turnovers space program that were important on their own. charlie: yes. gloria: so he was asking me to do one with charlton heston. charlie: would have been hard for you. gloria: i did do it. charlie: in support of the n.r.a. -- gloria: it was terrible. i called jesse jackson and said what should i do. charlie: to ronald reagan reached out to gloria steinem. gloria: i kept trying to make him laugh on the phone and he would not. he had a script and he was telling me about this fella who made western movies. you'll love him and stuff like that. it was a surrealistic experience. rrp how long did the conversation last? ? five minutes? gloria: probably more than that. he was making trivial phone calls. charlie: you're an important person. gloria: he was making all the
phone calls. charlie: i know he was making them all but to call you, first of all, you're an important person, but secondly, you seem legitimate. rp was gloria: yes, it was legitimate but extremely minor. charlie: i understand. in the scheme of things it was minor. give me your thoughts on isis. gloria: we are still considering foreign policy in a silo and the various other movements in silos. and so what we are not recognizing is that demonstratebly in a wonderful ok called "sex and world peace," the biggest indicator of whether the country will be violent inside itself or whether it will be willing to use military violence against
another country is not poverty, not access to natural resource r religion or dg degree of democracy. violence against females. charlie: the larger the -- the level of violence guest females, the more the country is -- gloria: to be violent in every other way. we call ms in which -- them patriarchal or whatever in which reproduction must be controlled in order to maintain racial separation or to maintain a particular religion. they control the body, they must control the bodies of women and that means that in our earliest years, we see a system in which it is asthumed one group is born to dominate the other.
d often this evolved -- it also involves violence. it normalizes violence in other cases. it is a root cause of violence. we have always known this in smaller, older societies, that the more polarized the gender roles, the more vie threptscote. charlie: where are gender roles least polarized? gloria: in native american cultures, africa. charlie: gender conflict in the oldest culture. why is that? gloria: their languages don't even have -- as gendered pronoun -- don't have he and she as gender pronouns. the native american, the
cherokee, their language does not have he and she, nor a word for nature because we're not separate from nature. in e original cultures, which reproduction was naturally controlled by women because it is our health concern. t is our bodies and so on. there were somewhat gender assigned tasks like women might be in charge of agriculture and men might hunt, but they were regarded as equal. so we did not start with division. saw other people -- the paradigm was a circle, not a pyramid. we saw human beings as linked rather than ranked. charlie: if you had to make one last speech and the subject was look how far we have come and
look how far we have to go, what would you say? gloria: well, to the first question, how far we have come, i would say we know we're not crazy. we know the system is crazy. this is big. [laughter] and to how far we have to go, i would say we have a long way to go because we need to stop dividing each other up by labels and -- charlie: in the culture among women? omen gloria: generally. you and i share more as human beings than separates us because of sex or gender. way more. way more. so why do we focus so much on these adjectives that are used
to divide us by gender, race, class, castein india. t is all about reproduction. charlie: so the answer as to why we do this, it is to continue the hierarchy political system. gloria: yes. you can see when some started, there is a wonderful book called exterminate all the roots, a line from "heart of darkness." it traces racism to colonialism. -- whole idea of racial charlie: justifies colonialism? gloria: where did that come from? i'm sure historians would go crazy with my overgeneralizeation. the institution of patriarchal
systems in europe caused them to and so er peems lands on. to justify that, you have to say they are inferior. you're almost doing them a favor ying they can't adapt to the world. they were utterly wrong. 100% wrong. so you know, we have to undo that. it is not easy. because as the old cultures will tell us, it takes four generations to heal one act of violence. charlie: four generations to heal one act of violence? gloria: that is their cautionary note in choosing -- they feel they have to be violent out of self-defense but you're way less likely to do it exretionly if you understand, if capriciously.
we as human beings have this enormous long period of dependency. 80% of our brains develop outside in the mother's body, in culture. so the good news is that we're adaptable and the species survive fwuss bad news is that we're adaptable so we can come to believe that that race is real and gender is real and hirkeji real. charlie: that they are real divisionses. gloria: yes. so there is a long way to go. but at least we have a voigs it and at least -- vision of it and at least we understand it only accounts for maybe 5% of human history. charlie: where is -- gloria: that is not inevitable. charlie: where is the cutting edge of change? gloria: hopefully at that table.
[laughter] charlie: we try mightily. gloria: it is a round table. charlie: right. no squares are allowed. gloria: right. charlie: where is the cutting edge of change? gloria: you know, it depend what is we're actually looking at, you know? i mean, some people would say the web. because it is a democratic network. charlie: and personalized. gloria: that skips over the divisions that we're accustomed to. charlie: and gender is not identified. gloria: we have to be cautious about the web. it is also divisive because how many people are illiterate and how many people have electricity. it is polarizings. charlie: on the other hand it is liberating because it brings knowledge to an extraordinary -- gloria: an extraordinary number of people. but here is the other -- it is
not that it is not great. it is great, but we have to understand its limitations and in addition to the fact that it leaves out, you know, million upon millions of people and polarizes to some extent, it also does not allow us to emphasize with each other. we can get information from it and this is great and we can find each other and this is great. you need to bee, -- empathize, you need to be present. charlie: to empathize? gloria: to empathize. i asked my friendly neurologist. charlie: neurologist or neuroscientist? gloria: both. to produce oxytocin, the hormone that allows us to not just know but to empathize. charlie: it allows us to
empathize and feel? can you get that and add to somebody who is not? gloria: for instance, when we male or female hold a child and take care of a child, we are flooded with oxytocin, it is what allows us to bond. it requires being present with all five senses. as much as i love books. you don't get it on the printed page and you don't get it on the screen. have i a dream. here is my dream. you should have a satellite with radio programs in every language that can be heard by somebody on the ground with a wind-up radio. don't even need electricity. you still need to be lit ral rat.
literate. that would be even more democratic mean s of communications. it is one of my many dreams. arlie: tell me more, ms. steinem. demroip here is another one. -- gloria: here is another one. all the people who are talking about climate change and global warming, for which i'm very rateful. charlie: they are in paris as we speak. gloria: yes, i'm very, very grateful perfectly remember that the pressure of unwanted population is the first root at the basis of climate change. unfortunately the people in the old days who used to talk about population control -- charlie: the presence of unwanted people. gloria: overpopulation. people pre-- the women's
movement who talked about population control, unfortunately talked about it in a racist way. you know, that focused on other countries and you know, made of racial assumptions and that has given it a third rail aspect. so now we don't talk about the fact that there are 8,000 more people on earth every minute or so and then there is like, you know, hundreds of millions of women who want desperately because it is a health concern, for us, to be able to limit births but it is suppressed by religions and culture and so on and they cannot do what in old cultures was understood with herbs and so on. charlie: were you impressed with -- this has to do with male-female. were you impressed with what mark zuckerberg has done, taking
time off, paternity leave? gloria: i think that is great. charlie: someone who is as prominent as he is. the god of technology. gloria: it is great because how men get to be whole people with all of their human qualitys is being raised as children or raising children. because the qualities that are wrongly called feminine that are just human are empathy, attention to detail, patience, flexibility. that's what you need to raise kids. and men who are not raised in that way get to be hyper masculine and they -- in some of them some of them, because of the crime we have just seen in california, some of them create crimes that i would call supremacy crimes. they have no gain. nothing. they are not going to gain money when they are domesticically
violent. they are not going to gain something when they are racist cops. they are not going to gain something when they go into a theater or post office and shoot random strangers. charlie: it doesn't add anything to their value. gloria: no. in a lot of cases of domestic abuse, they kill their family and kill themselves. they are getting absolutely nothing out of it except they have become addicted to control. they are addicted to saying, you know, powerfully i can kill you. this is the ultimate proof of my control. we should call them what they are. which is extremely crimes. in this country -- charlie: control over your life. gloria: that is hyper masculinity. they got born into this culture. they didn't make it up. charlie: the interesting thing today in san bernardino is this is the first time they have
begun to see couples. gloria: yes. that is the very first time because up until now in this country at least, at least in general, the people who commit these kinds of crazed crimes of killing strangers or their own families have been like 98% -- well, 100% male up until now. white, and not poor. they are exactly the people who are most likely in a way to get hooked into -- get hooked on the drug of control. that they are not real men. they are not real people unless they control others to the degree even -- charlie: by acts of violence. gloria: right. charlie: one of the things they say all of a sudden, you realize it is not about human -- gloria: if you're a female, you're raised for self-sacrifice. you're raised -- if you say to me what movie do you want to go
to? i'm raised to say i don't know, what movie do you want to gotop to? charlie: i don't know if you do, though. gloria: i try not to. charlie: isn't that empathy? in part it is to say where do you want to go? demroip feeling it is unfemme 911 voice your opinions. by and large, the golden rule was written by a very smart guy for guys. by and large, women to need to reverse it and learn how to treat ourselves as well as we treat other people. charlie: aren't we doing better on that? dwhroip yeah, we are. at least we can -- gloria: yeah, we are. at least we can say it. charlie: why did it take you 18 years to write this? gloria: because i was doing its every summer and then going back out on the road. [laughter] and actually it got much too
long and two wonderful friend s f mine, suzanne, the editor of "ms" magazine. took machetes and cut it down. because it was too long. harlie: it is 276. gloria: these days you can put what you cut out on the web. charlie: look at this. gloria: that was a very difficult day. charlie: i'm going to read it. this book is dedicated to dr. john sharp of london, in a decade before physicians could legally perform an abortion took considerable risk of performing an abortion on a 22-year-old
american on her way to india. he said you must promise me two things. first, you will not tell anyone my name. second, you will do what you want to do with your life. this is powerful. dear dr. sharp, i don't believe you, who knew the life ones just, would not mind if i say this, so long after your death, have i done the best that i could with my life. this book is for you. charlie: good for you. charlie: now i'm gladder every day that i dedicated it that way. right? charlie: nice to have you here. gloria: thank you. charlie: gloria steinem. the book is called "my life on the road." thank you for joining us. ♪
>> an update of our totch stories. a trade service of $54 billion. imports struck for a 13th month. consumer demand hasn't picked up enough to compensate. japan receiving welcome news with revised g.d.p. showing the economy avoided a recession in the last quarter. a contraction resulted in preliminary figures.