tv With All Due Respect Bloomberg January 15, 2016 8:00pm-9:01pm EST
tok: with all due respect donald trump, nobody knows new york values like we do. ♪ mark: tgif. we have had divine and tavis smiley on the program tonight. first, let's debate the debate in the most reductive and binary way possible. last night or publicans and losers, who is up and who is down and who is hot and who is not. first, let's quickly replay that trump-cruise fireworks over the two key issues to voters everywhere. oh, canada, and new york values. my friend september,
donald said that he had his lawyers look at this from every which way. there was no issue there. nothing to this birther issue. >> were you raising this issue now? >> now he is doing a little bit better. [laughter] >> there is a big? on your head. you cannot do that to the party. my entire life defending the constitution before the u.s. supreme court and i will tell you i'm not going to be taking legal advice and donald trump. you very kindly just a moment ago offered me the vp slot. [laughter] if thisell you what, all works out, i will be happy to consider naming you as vp so if you happen to be right you can get the top job at the end of the day. not a lot of conservatives come out of manhattan. >> conservatives actually do come out of manhattan. including william f buckley and others. he insulted a lot of people. i've had more calls on that statement. when the world trade center came down, i saw something that no
place on earth could have handled more beautifully, more humanely than new york. that was a very insulting statement. mark: this morning donald trump took issue with my semiofficial or poor credit valuations of how he did at the debate. he also this morning took exception with how i scored ted cruz's performance. >> are you still willing to say that ted cruz is a nice guy like you have in the past after last night? >> i don't know about being a nice guy. i'm not sure. he came at me last night it was inappropriate. i had him very hard. i do not think you would take it that way. he is a job -- is a problem, he needs to sort that out. he may have had a couple of suits filed against him yesterday against him running. i do not know if he is a nice guy. he's a good debater -- debater but he is very strident. not a lot of people would like that. i thought ted cruz hurt himself last night very badly because he looked very strident, to me.
i think people are not going to like him based on that performance. mark: here are all of my grades. you can see the candidates at the top. donald trump and ted cruz and and so on and so forth. chris christie with a b. marco rubio with the same. john, focusing on the front runners, do you agree with donald trump that i should have bumped his grade up to a clean a, and that i gave ted cruz too high a great? john: no and no. i do not agree with donald trump. neither of this course. partly because i thought that on the question of ted cruz's birth and eligibility, i thought that ted cruz is very strong on that. i thought donald trump looked a little discombobulated and on that basis alone, i think he cannot get a clean a. i also do not think that you overrated ted cruz. i think he should have been higher in your grading than you gave it. i would square those guys both a-. i might have given crews a.
mark: you might have given ted cruz a pure a? john: probably not. i would have given him -- mark: here's the thing. toeave myself open misunderstanding because my grades are based both on performance and how it affects the candidates chances. ted cruz did not leave north charleston with a better chance of beating donald trump and when he came in. his performance was good in many ways, but i do not think that you could say that tonight ted cruz has a better chance of being the nominee than he did last night. john: really? i do. only because of this, i believe that this birth eligibility -- was starting to her ted cruz little bit. i thought he seemed a little discombobulated himself about that issue for the last week and i thought that last night he clearly dispensed with it. mark: he did not clearly dispensed with it. he had a long -- high-profile
discussion about with donald trump and donald trump is more right than wrong when he says that this is not a settled issue. john: well, i do not disagree with donald trump on that. until it has been adjudicated, it is not a settled issue. i think as a political matter, ted cruz did a very nice job -- mark: if you are scoring -- at the princeton debate club. john: i'm a charter member of that debate club. mark: they set an extended high-profile time talking about an issue which by your own account is not good for ted cruz. john: there was no way around that, mark. the issue would be a big part of the debate -- mark: crews made it higher profile. john: he handled it well. mark: ted cruz made it higher profile by attacking. that is my last word on the matter. john: moving on now. republican national committee met in north charleston around last night's debate at in the hallways, all the talk was about the degree of the parties discomfort with where the nomination contest now stands. that is a two-person race basically, involving two people whom the party establishment --
kate is probably too strong a word, but probably not too strong. is there anything to republican establishment can do to change the -- unpleasant reality that they currently confront? mark: nothing right now. the moment of truth will come either right before right after new hampshire when there will have to be some way for the establishment to pick one or maybe even two of the four establishment governors or former governors and say, we are all in with this guy or these two guys. it will be hard to get that done unless one or two of them can come out of iowa and/or new there'se as head until above the rest. i think that is possible. you could say that chris christie a marco rubio or marco rubio and jeb bush or a combination of the two of them where establishment can say, we have to go all in because you have a lot of voices including people at paul ryan who say, i will be for donald trump who is -- if you've the nominee. i think he would step in and try to stop donald trump. john: i think it is possible
that there will be an establishment consensus, mainstream conservative that emerges. i think that is possible. it is a slightly different thing than rather the establishment can stop donald trump or ted cruz. i think the big stories of this last year have been how powerful the antiestablishment wing is and also how weak the establishment, whatever that means, is. the atrophy of their public and establishment is on display for all to see. i do not think there's anybody in a smoke-filled room or any set of people at the rnc who can do anything to stop donald trump or ted cruz, for that matter, if they get on a roll or when the nomination contest or it they will be the nominee and the party establishment will have to swallow it. mark: what we can put to rest is that the establishment fund, that is done. i do believe that one or two of these guys is going to emerge and they will get a chance to rally the establishment and it might be too late, but at least they will try. comingads are sure to be
fast and furious over the next two weeks with the run up to iowa. every day will bring you the ones that can make a difference in the contest. outcome or at least that struck our fancy. today we will start with donald trump new tv
ad. it is only the second tv commercial of his entire political career. >> we are going to take our country and we are going to fix it. we are going to make it great again. we are going to fix our --. we're going to take care of our veterans. we are going to fix our military. we are going to strengthen our borders. we are going to build a wall, but we are going to strengthen our borders. we are going to make a great again. we're going to make it greater than ever before. thank you. mark: that is a good advertisement. then another one we want to show you today. marco rubio a new ads. it is defending himself against attacks from jeb bush is super pac. >> we all see what is happening. jeb bush is desperate and
spending millions on false attacks. do not fall for it. when i'm president, there will be no amnesty. i will cancel obama's unconstitutional executive orders. i will cut century student funding and a poor criminal aliens. border agents,000 and finish all 700 miles of the border wall. if you're not 100% sure who you are and why you're coming to america, you are not getting in. i'm marco rubio, i approve this message. to
keep america safe. two big ads, john, what do you think the significance of them are? john: the donald trump at, angry with you is very strong. strong offensively saw the first donald trump ad which was kind of a dark vision of america which was very much on message at the beginning of his closing argument. this one now is the positive side of it, the make america great part. it is dumb dumb simple, but i think that is a virtue in some sense. i think that is important. the rubio ad says one thing, the immigration stuff is hurting him and jeb bush is getting to him. they the donald trump ad,
are bringing the rally experience onto the tv set. people in the early states -- his performance there. all bc they can choose which clips to use. marco rubio -- last night yet again, even know he engage with ted cruz on immigration, yet again, he did not have to give an accounting of his actions with a gain of eight on immigration. this advertisement is an attempt for him to take a position in which he will be on defense and make it kind of an offense thing. i think mattel is still going to be told. you look at marco rubio, chris christie, and john kasich, the ascension is that any of the three have success, they will be slammed by an onslaught of negative advertisements from all directions. marco rubio asserted to face that in a starting to fight back. john: do you think it's strange -- look, i think the jeb bush campaign is basically dead. because it is so much money, i do not think it is dead in one sense, which is a can inflict damage and other people. that rubio is responding to bush, who was a say right now,
most of the party thinks it's pretty much not in contention for the spot that marco rubio had -- it seems to me that indicates a kind of weird defensiveness. of all the things he could be responding to, it would be jeb bush a super pac? mark: the other campaigns think that once rubio has success, he will be dead with a gain of eight. we'll see if they are right. john: coming up, we'll talk about the other debates. the democratic debate. what we watching for in that matchup on sunday, next. ♪
clinton on economic issues. bernie sanders putting out an ad without mentioning hillary clinton's name is greater as softer on wall street reform that he is. and hillary clinton's campaign calling a conference call with reporters to describe that tb spot as negative, even though her name was not mentioned. to understand why the debate over economic populism matter so much and has gotten so hot, take a look at our latest bloomberg politics and morning register iowa poll which shows just how far left the party's base is on this topic. with 44% describing himself as --i-wall street and poorly 43% described themselves a socialist. today, hillary clinton showed that she is supersensitive to the base field as she tried to frame herself as the candidate who cares the most about economic inequality. line, is the bottom have been working against inequality since i was right out of law school. i have worked hard to try and
level the odds for people who are often left behind and left how. that is why i have devoted a lot of my time and attention to trying to into the inequality of opportunity that poor kid's face. why i have worked hard to level the playing field for women. i could go on and on, i have a long, long record of tackling all kinds of inequality. so, mark, let's did you the following, then no one disputes bernie sanders when it comes to economic populism. that is a given. the question is, is there anyway that clinton can possibly hope to compete with him on that score? mark: i don't than she wants to or should want to can he with him -- compete with them. i think she should could be with him on economic vision of the country that would appeal to the wider nation. is,ink the problem for her -- she was asked what her messages and what irrational the
running is, and she gave would send it to my ear a pretty rambling answer rather than something tight in syria and what you and i would call a theory of the case on the economy. i think that hillary clinton would like to outflank bernie sanders on the right on some ways in the economy and the left in others. she cannot have populist. she cannot let it happen and she's not wanted to happen. john: i agree with that. as you play now, there are two different issues with the theory of the case. one, whether she has one, or why she wants to be president and another is if she has economic. the case and obviously one of the things that was strongest about bill clinton when he ran in 1992 and 1996 is that he had one. very clear and concise and compelling and forward-looking. hillary clinton has a lot of proposals and a lot of really strong policies. a great policy shop. what she has not done is knit those things together into a coherent vision. either to the left or to the right or some third way. ain't no such thing as a
theory of the case about wanting to be president that does not include a hefty dose of the economy. john: i know, it's a subset though. mark: i will say that right now, it is not unfair to the clinton campaign to say that they have had a week of scramble in. heading into this debate, bernie sanders is now as good a justdential candidate, athletes skills, political athletes goes, as he has ever been. his understanding on how to do pay hillary clinton is better than it has ever been. you see him now possibly poised as much as and maybe more than in the first debate to really present her a challenge on sunday night with martin o'malley on the stage beside them. john: i will tell you right now, i'm in burlington, vermont, and eyes and sometime around the hotel vermont this afternoon where the sender campaign is doing debate prep. i have run across senator sanders and most of his high command over the course of the day and they are a confident group right now.
they have looked at all of these attacks coming from the clinton campaign over the course of this week on economics and everything else and they look at and say, man, this is a good sign for us. we are making progress as they are behaving this way. senator sanders and his habit of this debate is for him and he spent a lot of time cramming today. coming up, what you should be doing for real on sunday night, now watching the debate, but something is much more important. we'll talk about that after this. ♪
that you many things can experience on the campaign trail, speeches, voters, good fried food, the media, and one more thing, cameras. all of those things together, deep fry them, and you have yourself a greater show on earth, and that is why we here at blumer politics are partnering with showtime to show what it is like to be on the campaign trial. the program is called "the circus." it starts this sunday night, one mingle, to get up close to reveal what the president of candidates and those around them are really like. here's a look at part of the first episode of "the circus" featuring bernie sanders in iowa. [applause] >> your hair is looking good this morning. [laughter] what we are trying to do, as you know, with this campaign, is
to make a political revolution. donald trump and i say this publicly, is a pathological liar. the answer is, we will raise taxes for millionaires and billionaires and for the largest corporations. on caucus night, we're going to win. obviously, that is something we're working very hard to do. the clinton people are getting very nervous. here in iowa, in new hampshire, nationally, almost all instances, we do a lot better against donald trump and the other republicans, sometimes a bit -- i very, very big numbers and she does for a variety of reasons. if people raise the issue, i do not want to see donald trump or ted cruz become president, that is good. that is a better reason to vote for bernie sanders. [applause] >> let me thank all of you for coming. an incredible turnout. bottom line,--
today the united states of america is the wealthiest country in the history of the world, but most people in our country do not know it. they do not know it because they are too busy working two jobs or three jobs and they do not know because in many instances, really inflation adjusted for dollars, they are earning less than they used to. >> make it happen. [indiscernible] [applause] [applause] we have the opportunity,
here, and iowa, on caucus night, you have that special and unique opportunity to move this country forward and make a political revolution which demands that government works for all of us and not just a few. [applause] >> im am, and i say this probably, the son of an immigrant. [applause] [indiscernible] >> it's up to you, sir. >> you have and your guy right now, not that there's a good chance, but that in your hearts, i'm going to win this thing? >> we will have had meetings with close to 50,000 people coming out. that is a decent percentage of the total number people who are going to vote. i also understand i am up against a very, very formidable opponent who has a great
organization, who is spending a whole lot of money. so, i do not take her for granted. based on my feelings of the crowds and the enthusiasm and energy that is out there, based on my sense of upholding around the country, i think we have an excellent chance to win. [indiscernible] the idea of doing meetings like we have done tonight, i have done that my whole life. it was also a question of working around and seeing what the alternatives were, who is running. what i thought about was the fact that this country faces enormous crisis. i do not think that her ideas and the way that she does politics are going to bring back the kind of profound changes that this country needs. mark: on sundays, the first episode, john and i, and our colleague mark mckinnon, are
going to look at bernie sanders and ted cruz and donald trump. the three outsiders, the three candidates were disrupting america's political system. john: there has been no bigger story in this presidential cycle , as you know, than the rise of these insurgent candidates. the three just mentioned, donald trump, ted cruz, bernie sanders. they are on a roll, they all have the wind at their back, experience in searches. -- experiencing searches. on some level, they're all kind of caricatured, as two-dimensional figures even they are electrified for their supporters. one of the things are trying to to showthe show, is them in a different way than anybody has ever seen them before. humanize them and show the many different dimension. mark: one of the things in the first episode is about donald who regularly complains that coverage of his rallies do not show the full breadth of how many people are there, the excitement or energy level. we went to a donald trump rally earlier this week in pensacola, florida, and sunday night, i think people will see, if you
never been to a donald trump rally, you will see them brought to life through a lot of cameras in the hall, showing donald trump doing what he does. sure the atmosphere in and outside of the hall. those that become the signature of an of this campaign and either party and will try to bring that alive for people on sunday night. john: i also think the ted cruz and bernie sanders, we have had externally access and a been able to go really deep behind the scenes and really pull back the curtain. i guarantee that what you think of bernie sanders or ted cruz, you will see them in a different light after you watch this first episode of "the circus" on sunday. mark: it is on 8:00 on showtime this sunday. speaking of bernie sanders, will have his mastermind behind his campaign after the break. ♪
it in the general election campaign and i think it is something that will move voters as long as it is part of a broader and more conference of package of change. what a difference 24 long years makes. joining us now here in burlington, vermont, is to have divine, senior adviser to the bernie sanders for president campaign. good to see you. question,rt with this we went off on the holidays, i would think most people in offered holiday break believe that secretary clinton had a very comfortable lead. and that the bernie sanders phenomenon was may be fading. we have now come back and it is january and he is searching, purely, if you look at the numbers. what changed that suddenly has given him this new burst of energy and momentum? tad: i think it was the process of building. remember, they had three months of tv, august through november. we were not on the air. we had a longer frame that we
were building toward. we started november 4, and by the time we got to the end of year, we have a couple of things on television. we have been building great campaigns on the ground in iowa and new hampshire. in nevada and in south carolina and elsewhere. i think we went to a process where people got to see him, know his story, and that really brought him to the forefront of their voting equation. when you turn the corner after the holidays, that is when people really plugged in. and they plugged in. let's talk about iowa for a second. you are two points back. but in the margin of error. what, in these next two weeks, which is really all that it is now, what has to happen in these next two weeks for you guys to close the sale and actually win the iowa caucus? tad: we have to focus on our message. we have a very clear message, america's economy is --.
that is what he is talked about from the beginning and that's a we'll talk about until the end. if you can deliver that message and deliver it in his own, unique, convincing way, if we can get out to voters immobilize, particularly new voters, first time caucus-goers in, get more independence to vote in the primary caucus process, i think we would have a real shot of winning. john: this week we saw clinton and her daughter chelsea, we talked about on the show. we have seen them start to really turn a fire on bernie sanders. i talked to him a little bit earlier today, and he says that he thinks the clintons are getting desperate, do you think so? tad: i agree with bernie. if that is your question. but we have to do is not get distracted. we have to focus on him, his message. i think if he wins, it will be because of three things. one, his message is more powerful. two, he is more authentic and delivering. three, we have the resources to deliver the message. that's only to focus on. john: you are watching all of this unfolds.
the weekendswhy and has put you guys under the gun. how do you interpret this health care -- that they are making? are you surprised about the argument that they are making against senator sanders? tad: i'm very surprised. democratic caucus voters in iowa and primary voters aspire to have health care for all. bernie sanders has stood up and said things other candidates, friendly, have not said. we should have a single-payer system in america, medicare for all. i think it is appealing to democratic primary voters. hillary clinton to suggest that we would disassemble obamacare and medicare and entire health care system, i do not think it is credible. john: let's talk about guns for a second. this is an issue where most people can see, maybe you will not, that secretary clinton is in a better place with relation to the democratic electorate than with bernie sanders. do you feel as though you have done -- how will do think of the neutralizing that weakness? tad: i understand how everybody says this is a terrible weakness.
here's the truth. bernie sanders, from the beginning of his political career, has stood up on the issues of gun safety. he lost his first race here in vermont for congress probably because he stood up and said he opposed assault weapons. he is always supported back on checks and is supported other strong gun safety majors -- measures. i don't think this election will be decided on that issue. if bernie sanders was a member of the 18, and are a i think you'd be in trouble, but he is not. that heu don't dispute was not sufficiently well prepared to make the argument that he needed to make in that first debate and that he has suffered a little bit with the democratic electorate because she has the liability boat and she is hammered him on that pretty religiously for months. tad: i don't dispute that he could have done a better job in that deadly -- debate extending his position on record. john: let's talk about this ad that you guys have put out. the clinton campaign yesterday had a conference call to basically say that senator
sanders promised he would knock on negative and he is now gone negative. how your sponsor the charge that that ad which does not mention her name is pretty explicit lee negative? there's a pretty clear contest -- contrast drawn in that ad. tad: i don't see it as a negative ad. we put the other candidate enemy attack them. that is an scary. there is division on wall street. wall street democrats and bernie sanders vision of wall street. i think it was before and shares in that vision. john: do you think in the next two weeks that there is between the two of them will get appreciably more negative than it has been already? tad: i hope not. i will tell you will not from our side. if she will attack them, we will do with it. john: what do you think, what to expect? tad: i don't know what to expect. their consolation is that they need to be back bernie and attacking. if they do that, we will deal with it. we will not deal with it by attacking her. bernie sanders does not do that kind of politics. we had a real tough race for
over syrian vermont. he was expertly by his opponent. john: in the past, the clintons know how to campaign. when they need to go negative, they do with great for all city and single or focus. if you ready for that? if it comes to that, if this does really get messy and ugly over the next two weeks? candy stand that kind of onslaught? yes, he can. i have seen the way that he has dealt with powerful interests coming at him and his willingness to stand up for them. i have no doubt whether it is hillary clinton or donald trump thereafter or any of the republicans, bernie sanders is ready for it. john: what is the mode like? tad: i think it is good. john: on a scale of 1-10, in terms of crankiness -- tad: that has its own skill. [laughter] tad: he is who he is and he will not change and that is great. that is part of the recent for success in this campaign. devine you have a lot of work to do over the next
♪ if you access to electronic information sources, i bet you know already that the stock market went down again today. here to explain what happens, and why it happened, and what might happen next, as our partner in crime, the host of "bloomberg oh", ms. stephanie ruhle. let's talk about the scale of this. we knew it was the biggest
decline at the beginning of a year. we are still in the beginning of the year, what is the scale and scope historically of where we are? stephanie: at this point, it looks like this could be the worst start of any year in history. the levels were facing right now are where we were back in august and it was that point in august that pushed janet yellen not to raise rates in september. password, she did in december, she liked with the economy look like and the employment nubbers, but if the markets are predicted, either she was wrong or she was right from him moment, but we are really headed in a bad direction. mark: what is the skill of the loss, what is a comparable to? whatanie: if you look at we are facing, it is really across the board. oil has been the driver touching below 30 and iran is prepared to now put more out. opec is considered -- i don't want to say joke at this point, but it is anyone's game and nobody's being attention to the fact that demand is just not matched off with supply. there are concerns in china that the central bank said the cannot control the situation and take us to the u.s., we have earnings
out of intel. intel is that major today with them predicting first quarter sales are going to be down. disney, because espn bullet proofed, he is paying subscriber down. retail shelves -- throw in retail sales and show me where the good news is. mark: the international stuff, china, oil, we have had a lot of uncertainty over the last couple of years erie it -- of years. particularly china and oil prices. combination, ad conflict of many things at once, or is the oil price drop across some line that is causing markets to be more jittery? stephanie: the oil situation is bad, but it is a perfect storm, anause member, there is effective all emerging markets and those of us who said, with gas prices so low, people be shopping in stores, except they are not, because retail sales numbers are down. we are consuming a lot, but the consumer has become addicted to
discounting, so the retailers are not doing well. walmart, any situation with her closing down one of their entities, it could be putting 10,000 jobs at risk. this is a negative picture. mark: let's take it to politics. the republican nomination and the democratic nomination, we might see general election bernie sanders versus donald trump. we just had the president give the state of the union address, is it possible that either or both of those political developments is speaking markets as well? stephanie: the market is not necessarily concerned with who will be the president because we are still the cleanest of the dirty shirts. the question is, what does the real picture look like, and member, a few nights ago we heard from the president, in his speech he said, anyone claiming that america's economy is in decline is peddling fiction. well, who is right, and who is wrong? clearly, the economy is doing better than we were in the crisis. our when the president stepped into that see, but hillary clinton or bernie sanders has to
take the baton from the president and show this rosy economic picture, how do you do that? heidi did and this climate? mark: most of the people care about the fundamentals of the academy, the thing i hear most from business leaders, despite a generic call for stability, they want tax reform. some of them like deficit reduction, as well. is there anything to either of those -- neither his lap and italy have a new president have been, is there anything washington can do now that would send signals to the market that things are better in washington and therefore people can relax a little bit? it is not ending anytime soon. the election is sort of the least volatile point in the picture. from the markets perspective, i do not think that is a major focus. doing anything possible to reduce volatility, the one thing they do not like is politicians constantly going after wall street. honestly, that is just noise or a sideshow. what does it mean to stop wall street? who is wall street? mark: back to donald trump.
is this coming about his current prominence in the republican race that you think might be worrying the markets. stephanie: it is not wearing the markets. if you look at market participants, in the beginning they thought donald trump -- are you kidding me? over time, he's gaining power and strength and it is that strong voice, he is almost like a voice of stability. i do not think the political race has the market so spooked. more and more investors are simply sitting in cash because again, we are in a perfect storm. mark: i just need to know as a close that today when i was deciding what to wear, i wore my cleanest dirty shirt. stephanie: at least you're not the prettiest girl at the ugly dance. mark: stephanie ruhle. thank you very much. we come back, mr. tavis smiley, author. he'll join us after this. ♪
♪ mark: a decade ago, tavis smiley wrote "the covenant of black america." it was randy for the aged barack obama. now he is out with a new book, " the covenant with black america, 10 years later." what we are traveling in iowa, we spoke with him about what has changed over the last decade as my working day approaches on monday, we started by talking about what areas of any are better for black america now than they were before barack obama took office. tavis: i'm sad to report that in meeting, economic had it right, black america has lost ground over the last decade in every major economic category. this book comes out as you said
in 2006, so clearly, this book was out before obama shows up to win in 2008, so the book was never about barack obama. his tenure update is not about him now, but it is true that over these last 10 years, most of that on his watch, black america has lost ground in the major economic indicator categories. what accounts for the fact that so little progress, where the backsliding, what accounts for that going on under the leadership of the first african american president? has weeks plane that? tavis: i think there are a few things. i think the historians are going to have a very difficult time trying to juxtapose how in the era of the first black president, the bottom fell out for black america. that will be a hard juxtaposition to make. i hope to be around to read with their accounts will be for why they think that happened. my research in this text suggest a few things. there was too much deference to the president by black people. he got so caught up in the symbolism that we did not press hard enough on the substance. symbolism does matter, i just think that substance matters, as
well. there was too much deference in some part to the president on the part of black people and black leaders were sidelined in silence to often in favor of an invitation to the white house. more could have been done in terms of pressing an agenda. you look up again lesbian community, look at departmental movement. wall street is everything that they want. look at what other committees gained over the last decade in the cap black america. it was not just on, but the indy lost ground over the last 10 years. there was clearly indifference. no doubt about the fact that the president received the kind of headwinds that no president has ever received. there was clearly obstructionism. that is a factor. the third factor, i think, i would put as a question. historians may debate this for years to come. did barack obama not get enough done on black issues because he was obstructed, or, did he not try hard enough? did he not do enough? i think the answer is clearly both, we'll see what historians say.
this book is not about him, per se, it is about where black america is 10 years after that text and again, it is just not a happy report. their pockets of progress, but across the board, we have regressed. mark: i want to ask about the president, i know you say the book is not about him. consider them as some of you -- about the same issues that you talk about. do you think that when he read your book, some you will, that he will agree with your conclusions are will he take issue with them? tavis: that is a question. number one, i think it is hard to argue with the data. this is not a book that i wrote and espouse my particular point of view. there be plenty of books written about whether barack obama measured up or did not measure up were black issues were concerned. i just saw a book across my desk the other day. that is the first of many, i might even write one myself, who knows, about what he did or did not do these of a black issues. this book, again, is about the issues. i think the answer question, if you want to argue with the data,
then so be it. but this book is database. indiana university, school of public and a by mental affairs, academics and professors there, where trained in these disciplines, wrote the book and read the research. they wrote these updated chapters on where we are 10 years later. you can argue with me, but i'm not the guy who pulled the data. you can argue with the data, and i think you'll be very successful with that. john: give me her sense of whether the black lives matter movement matters. will that be and occupy wall street? it kind of flares up and disappears. leaving no real trace. or do they will be something that will be significant in the short and the long-term. tavis: one issue we can make progress on a bipartisan way, his criminal justice reform, as you both know. there's already talk. there's already bipartisan consensus on some meaningful criminal justice reforms which i look forward to. i think that can happen if we demand that.
all voters in this election season. that is something we can see a bipartisan progress on. specifically about black lives matter, they deserve great credit for the agenda that they have raised, for the issues that they put on that agenda. and i think that movements are very rare. i'm always careful to declare something a movement. , thatrts with a moment moment builds omentum, and out of momentum you can get a movement, but movements are very, very rare in our society. but it starts with a moment, momentum, and the movement. they made a significant impact on the conversation is country, whether or not it is sustainable, we shall see. i'm so heartened by these young people who understand that after living lies for have her long they have been living, so many young people -- this generation has been little commercialized, they have been economically asked later, there been such them in, and i'm glad to see that they are finally straining their backs that. a man can only write your back when it is ben's. once you strain your backup,
something has to happen. they are straining up their backs, and i think that their impact will not appreciable, but also lasting. not know the next visit is good to be. it is not that likely to be an african-american. where does black america go from here? unless ben carson surprises us all. in an open-ended way, where does black america go from here? tavis: as we approach the monolithic and holiday, that is the penultimate question. mlk wrote a book about where do we go from here? that is to the question all these years later. i think it starts with organizing with the data tells us. like donald people trump is speak off-the-cuff and have no regard for real data. we have to start by being attention to what the data is telling us. the data is telling us that black america has lost ground in every major economic category over the last 10 years. if we care about the sanctity and the humanity and the dignity of those lives, and for that
matter, all of this country, we have to take these issues here's the why do i say alawites? these issues may be black america's problems, their white america's burden i believe that when you make latin america better, you make all-america better. where we had is to the facts and the data first, to see what they tell us and then to start making demands. as i said earlier, we did not make enough demands over the last 10 years. other communities did. you have not be, -- because you ask not. to the victor goes the spoils. you cannot be the most will insurgency and not see some progress made during that tenure. let's start with the facts, and then let's start making some demands. you have to agitate, agitate, agitate. if you want the system to do anything for you. mark: that was tavis smiley. his book is a babel now, we will be right back. ♪
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