tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg November 22, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm EST
our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: tom friedman is here. he is a pulitzer prize-winning author. he is known for tackling big ideas and wide-ranging subjects. he has a book out which some are calling his most ambitious yet. it is called "thank you for being late." he argues today's world is moving faster than ever and will only get esther. -- faster. i am pleased to have tom friedman at this table.
tom: it comes from meeting people for breakfast in washington, d.c.. every once in a while, somebody will come late. one day about three years ago, him,iend peter, i said to thank you for being late. because you are late, i have been eavesdropping on their conversations. i have been people watching the lobby. most importantly, i just conducted that's connected with ideas i have been struggling. people started to get into it. i washey understood, giving them to slow down and rethink and reflect. my favorite quote in the opening chapter comes from my friend. he says, when you press the pause button on a computer, it stops. when you press because you on a human being, it start.
boy, do we need to do a lot of that. charlie: what stage of acceleration? withit explains -- begins me explaining to my parking garage attendant how to write a column. if the world as a data set, this is my ogre rhythm. a new story is meant to inform. i can write about the show and inform. a column is different, it is meant to provoke. it is to produce a reaction. how do you do that? i am either stoking an emotion or illuminating something. if i do both, together, then you got a column. to produce heat and light requires a chemical reaction. you have to combine three compounds. what are your values? are you a communist, a capitalist, question what are the values you are trying to
promote? second, how do you think the machine works? that is my shorthand for what forces are shaping things. i am always carrying on a working theory of how the world works. i am trying to put my value set and push the machine. lastly, what have you learned about people and culture? the machine affects real people. stir all those together. if you do it right, you will produce heat or light. the more i explained this to my parking garage attendant, who is a blogger and wanted to understand this, the more i thought about, what is my value set after all these years? where does it come from? it comes from the town in minnesota where i grew up. how do i think the machine works and what have i learned about people and culture? i decided that is the book i wanted to write. middle of are in the
three accelerations. exponential in many ways. the three largest forces on the planet, which i call the market, mother nature, and moores law. says the speed of microchips will double every 24 months. it is a proxy for technology. the market for me is globalization, but not your grandfather's globalization. containers on ships. digital globalization. all the things globalized. you put it on a graph, it looks like a hockey stick. other nation, you put it on a graph, it looks like a hockey stick. we are in the middle of three hockey stick accelerations at the same time. the market, mother nature, and moores law. they are not just changing the world, they are reshaping it. they are reshaping politics, geopolitics.
the workplace, ethics and community. is first part of the book about these accelerations. the second part is how i think we need to reimagine these different realms. to 2007 inu point your column yesterday. which was, when you think about it, a phenomenal year. tom: i struggled on this. in 2007?hell happened steve jobs came out with the iphone. putting a small handheld ,omputer not only in the hands on the way to everyone in the planet. that was just the beginning. facebook in 2007 came out of high schools and universities. twitter started in 2006 but only went global in 2007. oop, the software no one
has ever heard of, created the foundation for the data. -- big data. software's biggest suppository. started in 2007 during the kindle, jeff bezos, came out with a candle. ingle came out with android 2007. ibm started watson in 2007. i have a graph of the cost of sequencing a human genome. a waterfall.in the bottom, 2007. silicon tooff materials. 2007 may be seen in time as one of the greatest technological inflection points ever and we completely missed it because of
2008. charlie: the beginning of the worst recession in a long time. sincehe worst recession 1929. right when our physical technologies left ahead, and we felt it to read it was like a moving sidewalk. people felt like the ground was moving under their feet. under that -- right when it happened, politics froze. america gave us the tea party. charlie: and gave us obama in 2008. after that, it really froze. the social tech elegies, when your physical technologies move ahead, new learning and regulating. new social adaptations. new managerial systems. a lot of that got froze and a lot of people got dislocated. if you think about the people who drove this last election, we
are told white working class. but noncollege educated some college educated. you think about the history of the last 50 years, i have a quote because the back part of the book is about growing up in minnesota. i have a quote from a congressman in minnesota who said in minnesota, in the 1960's and 19 entities, if you were an average worker, you needed a plan. economy.ig industrial so many blue-collar jobs. whiteustained the last educated working class. the 1980's, what help these people is the world went global, a huge expansion of credit. mortgages. house value rose, or many people who were homeowners. and then what happens in 2007, the home mortgages crash. people lose this equity.
a lot of them from the white working class. at the same time, in 2007, machines start to be able to do incredible things. the work they were able to do, more and more is taken by machines. all of that happens under obama's presidency. it is a big part of this election. those people got hit from two directions. the recession took away the equity. suddenly they went to work and there was a robot next to them that seems to be studying their jobs. all of these things, the acceleration came because of the globalization of ideas. go to the bathroom and there is someone of another gender. they go to the grocery store and there are more immigrants. the things that anchor people in the lives, their community and workplace, both of them got disturbed in the last decade.
i think this election is partially a reflection of that. charlie: are they right to blame globalization? tom: it is certainly a part of that. charlie: even the president in europe said we have to think about it and think about what modifications are necessary. tom: i think there is no question about that. we also have to not exaggerate the impact of globalization relative to technology. the new york times used to have, we used to have a receptionist in our washington bureau. we do not anymore. we didn't replace her with a mexican, we replaced her with a microchip. technology has been taking some any more jobs than globalization. there is a part of the public hit by the sudden expansion of trade with china. benefitedeople also as well, let's not forget. all three at how
accelerations work together. last april, i did a documentary for national geographic. we went to senegal and we followed climate refugees from senegal up through niger and the border of libya. charlie: what is a climate refugee? tom: these are people, the whole terrace climate agreement was to prevent two degrees rise so to great -- centigrade. senegal is already there. they are heading for four degrees. climate change has really hammered their agriculture, population growth comes in. the land, the villages that are the anchor for all of these communities in west africa cannot support the demand. we went villages with no men. they are all gone, on the road, looking to get to europe. niger.to
for ands of them together caravan and they are coordinated by whatsapp. them,e would say to metaphorically, we will give you a live aid concert in europe. he they say, no, we can watch it right here. this is the place i want to live and work and my traffic or has promised to give me there. this problemseen in europe. the majority are from west africa. they are not from the middle east. climate economic refugees. they show up in europe. people say, wait a minute. i don't feel at home. suddenly there are strangers around me. of illegal immigration from latin america and mexico has a similar effect around america.
you have the climate pushing people north korea globalization, giving them the tools to come faster and connect. and technology. takingogy is giving -- the job of the guy who was there or he fears it is. all threeo see that are working together. to me, to go back to your question, what is the answer? trump has promised people he is going to take care of them. i will tell you, and i have worked hard on this question doing this book, i don't know with the answer is. let me start there with total humility. here is what i learned in doing this book. i don't know what is sufficient to take care of all the white working class, less educated in our country. brothers and sisters and neighbors. this is a serious question. i know what is necessary. what is necessary, you have to
be really open to read it if we are going to get the signals first and be able to adapt. pick off the best minds to create jobs we have never heard of reading at the same time, everyone has got to get more educated. those are the only way. i was at a conference with charlie rose last fall. there was a woman at this conference whose job was tagging sharks for twitter. who knew there was a job tagging sharks for twitter? tag sharks for twitter. who knew? if you keep it open, you are going to get those jobs. to need a massage at the end of the day. maybe somebody to work on her house. the worst thing we can do is close up and tell people, you are going to be ok. you don't have to work harder or learn fast. that, i cannot change. none of us can change. charlie: let me talk about other
areas, artificial intelligence and the cloud. how they are relevant. tom: i have a chapter on this. it is called, how we turn ai into ia. turn ane to learn -- intelligent in tenses -- how do we turn artificial intelligence into intelligent assistance? at&t human give, resources department. project profile in the book. they have been doing it, the ceo begins with a speech. here is where we are going. here are the skills you are going to need. these are the companies i'm going to buy. tom: that is part of the changing at&t. maybe they say, there are 10
skills you are going to need. all theirput employees on in-house -- they have charlie rose. you've got seven of the 10 skills you are going to need. but you are missing three. then they partner with the online university. they got nano degrees for all 10. toy say, we will pay you up $8,500 a year to take these courses for the skills you don't have. toone condition, you have take them on your own time. to,ou say, you don't want they have a wonderful severance package. it is a new bargain. the bargain is, you can be a lifelong employee but only if you are a lifelong learner to read that is coming. you've got to be a lifelong learner. if you do take those courses --
you got to do it on your own time. you will get the first shot at these jobs. if you do play by the new rules, we will honor our side to make sure you get a shot. i think that is a social contract coming to a neighborhood near you. if you are ready to be a lifelong learner, you can be a lifelong employee. charlie: because you are going to need new skills. nobody is telling people that. more will be on you. hillary had her way of saying, no problem. i will cut your taxes. i will give you free this or that. goinghas his thing, i am to take care of it all. frank is having that conversation, if you are lifelong learner, you can be a lifelong employee. charlie: supernova.
what did you say, after you said, what did you bring to a chess match? tom: that was a great story out of the book, "the second machine age." a dutche a quote from grand master. he asked, -- he was asked, what would you bring to a chess match with a computer? he said, a hammer. i have a chapter called, too fas t. i trace every writing device i had as a journalist. typewriter.a and italics -- a telex. it, and what came up, antique typewriter. the device i started on was an
antique. it said, the typewriter was the main writing device from 1880 -1980. one writing device listed 100 years. then i traced every device since. in beirut, we had to write them three paragraphs at a time on paper. hand them to a telex operator. they were sent to new york. that with, i was on niger and i did a column. we had troubled around niger with the environment minister. i said, i have quoted you in my column today. about niger. he said, i know.
it is going to be a big part of this new economy. what basically happened, i think, in the early 2000's, we had a price collapse the price of connectivity. that is because the price of fiber optic cable collapsed. we built too much and we accidentally connected the world. and gave it a name, the world is flat. i could be touched by people who could never touched me before. what happened in 2007 was another price collapse. in the price of compute and storage. had millions of computers working together. we could analyze it. come up with all these new solutions. collapsesut those two
together, suddenly connectivity became fast and free. all the things you can do with one touch. think of what it was to get a cab to five years ago. uber, one touch. all of that complexity was reduced into one touch. when you put those two things together, the world became hyper connected and we could suddenly do so many complex things in a way where the complexity was made invisible, you had a huge energy release. it changed three kinds of power. the power of one, we have a president-elect who can sit in his penthouse and tweet and reach 20 million people directly. no charlie rose, no tom friedman. isis can do the same thing. it changed the power of machines. machines can think, design, they can write poetry. ibm watson recently cowrote a
song that went to number t fourn itunes. a change to the power of flow. think how quickly the idea of marriage being between a man and a woman changed. for a lot of people, it happened way too fast. charlie: is there a push back to acceleration? tom: that is a good question. i don't think there is a technological one. i don't think we are going to moore's law. i believe the proper governing the nation state. it is not going to be the single family because it is too weak to stand up against gail forces.
it is going to be the healthy community that is close enough to people and their lives, adaptive enough to help them with the lifelong learning. allow more and more people to be connected, protected, and respected. that is what the community really can do. that is what it does at its best. we have talked about this before. optimist,t to be an stand on your head. it looks so much better from the bottom up. you go to raleigh-durham, austin, there are amazing communities. i tell the story of minneapolis in the last part of the book. people are living together, they are living together with fewer right-left issues. they are solving their problems. education of the workplace. amazing stuff happening at the community level. my friend says, nothing has to
be invented. whatever you can imagine, social reform, economic reform, there is some community already doing it. it just needs to be scaled. charlie: you are an optimist. this is an optimist's guide. tom: i do a lot of drugs. i am. charlie: it is essentially because of what? tom: i tell the story of my community. chapters, always looking for minnesota. i grew up in this little suburb outside minneapolis. family is in the 1940's and 1950's, the jews in minneapolis lived in the north side. there was a lot of anti-semitism. in the mid-1950's, the vast majority of the jews moved at once like in next this, to one suburb.
st. louis park. which of the time, was 100% protestant catholic. and mostly scandinavian. it goes from this to 20% jewish. overnight, you get this explosion of sort of a wonderful sort of scandinavian pluralistic ethic and all this jewish neuroses. i tell this story because i grew up in the same suburb at the same time as the coen brothers, al franken. on wiseman. wiseman. we grew up in the same area at the same time. a lot of us went to the same hebrew school.
and we all kind of went out into the world. we saw pluralism work, we saw inclusion work. this was white judeo christians. while we had to work at it, we built a great community, it was a lot easier. back, in the penultimate chapter, 40 years later. i go back to my high school. protestant0% white catholic. 10% hispanic, 10% jewish, 30% somalia and african american. they serve whole all meals. -- halal meals. challenge is deeper. how are they doing? they are doing amazingly well. they have issues. we have seen police shootings. anyonend says, whenever asks him, are you an optimist or pessimist, i am neither. they are two forms of fatalism.
i believe in applied hope. that is what i believe in, charlie. that is not optimism. i go back to minneapolis and i see a lot of people applying hope. that is why the book does and, it does have a theme song. it is by brandi carlisle. a wonderful country singer. i did joke, if i could only by the song so the book would open the song, the main refrain of this song is, i wrapped your love around me but i was never afraid it would die in a hurricane but only if you are standing in the high. -- eye. selling aothers are wall to the hurricane. the eye is the healthy community.
i am not with the wall people, i people.the eye you said, i am lucky to have a group of friends who have been with me on the journey. helping me think through ideas. this book is dedicated to them. you list a whole group of people. michael mandelbaum, many. we just went through an election. , to the surprise of many and i think you, was elected. the polls were wrong. pundits were wrong. donald trump would say, people write. -- were right. he called it a moral 9/11.
what you mean? overlooked a norma's ormous abuses, we as a society to elect him. overlooked decent behavior. we overlooked a man who spoke about our brothers and sisters in bio ways, not to mention our women. enormous indecent behavior. he settled a suit for fraud at the university supposedly dedicated to the people who voted for him. we overlooked a lot. charlie: we overlooked, -- society wasying the ready to overlook and enormous -- charlie: but i am so, angry,
letdown. i'm going to take a chance. i know this is a flawed man. tom: that is what i meant. we are ready to overlook eno rmous flaws, like we have never done before as a country. that is what i meant. win,er predicted he would but i did not predict he was going to lose either. i covered him every day as a real possibility. i don't know what is going to happen. i wish him well, i wish the country well. the country has chosen to read it we will only have one president, he is going to be president for four years. i am not going to do what republicans did with obama and root for him to fail. my posture is what i call principled engagement. i'm not here to forgive and forget. things were said and done. are raw, i think he needs
to engage that. on the rightut place in climate, i will be applauding. if he does not, i will be a principled opponent. charlie: what do you make and of him so far? decisions he is making have to do with personnel. he has appointed people, steve bannon. i don't know this person. some people say he is a decent guy. other people point to things he has written and has overseen, said by his ex-wife that are chilling. racist and the anti-semitic quality of him. i don't know these people. i know mike flynn a little bit. i knew him from the field. i don't know this mike flynn. time, jeff sessions,
everything i read about him sets off red lights to me about things he has said in the past. i am waiting for him to fill out his cabinet. saying, i have to feed my base but then i'm going to appoint mitt romney. i think that would be a very good choice for donald trump. who knows who he will appoint at the fence or other key -- treasury. it looks like a real possibility. also a decent guy. what worries me is this. in the age of accelerations, when the world was slower, you were growing up in north carolina, if we had a governor youayor who got off track, were only going five miles per hour to read could get back on track. smallrld pixel rates,
errors in navigation have huge consequences. if we get off track, on climate for instance, education, all these other issues, getting back on track could be painful. leadership always matters. in matters even more now. small errors in navigation can have huge compounding effects. charlie: with respect to foreign isis., there is there is north korea. there is china, there is russia. says,prepared, he certainly not to support trade agreements. he wants to renegotiate. you what i tell argue any book are the foreign-policy challenges of the next president. i begin by saying, if the president elect call you and
says, i would like you to be say, i hadf state, my heart set on agriculture. foreign-policy is going to be hell on wheels. why? you have to manage four balances of power could read one of the traditional one, america and russia, china. what are the new ones? the first is the balance of tween coherent and incoherent states. we have states collapsing, teetering on the edge. during the cold war, it was a wonderful time to be a weak state. you had superpowers throwing money at you competing. they would give you foreign aid. build your army. populations were smaller. lots of young people.
climate change was moderate. anda was not in the wto could not take low-wage labor. those advantages are gone. is no superpower that wants to touch you. change is hammering you could read populations are bigger and there are more older people to take care of. china is in the wto. i tell the story, i am in egypt for talk your square -- tahir square. i go home. souvenirhe egyptian shop. i have to bring something home. what do they have? pyramid ashtrays. ify have a stuffed camel, you squeeze its hop, it hawks. -- honks. i buy it.
says, made in it china. countrythe lowest wage in the eastern mediterranean and they can make a cheaper camel in china. all of these accelerations are hammering these countries. they are built on slabs of cement with no foundation. accelerations are like a tornado going through a trailer park. they are creating disorder. what you see in europe, in that part of the world, the divide between the world of order and disorder. the meta-training is the dividing line to read tens of thousands of people are trying to get out of the world of disorder. that is one balance you have to manage. theyou have to manage allen's between makers and breakers. if you want to make something, you were born in the right time.
when it is good for makers, it is great for breakers. it is a great time to the isis and a 3-d printer expert. balance is integration. when the world gets this interdependent, your friends can kill you faster than your enemies. if greece goes bankrupt, we will feel that. atoece is a needle ally -- n ally. greece can kill us. your rivals that have fallen have become more dangerous than your rivals rising. if china takes more islands in the south china sea, i really don't care. if the stock market else down, everyone here will feel it. whatever qsn., mucking around, but what if he collapses? they still thousands of world nuclear scientists and weapons? our rivals falling are more
dangerous than rivals rising. managing weakness, that is so much more difficult. managing strength, that is easy. managing weakness is hell on wheels. take a: we should responsibility making sure russia does not collapse? the same time, incurs them too much and they take a bite out of ukraine. managing these balances are so complicated. his trump up to it? saycertainly not going to no. all i'm saying is, it is much harder than before. so we have got technology like no one else, a military like no one else. an economy like no one else. universities like no one else. we have all these things. so what could go wrong? obama said, our politics could go wrong. in the end, the biggest challenge to a america right now
is three or four square miles in washington dc. so how do we fix our politics? tom: my election night column begin with a story that a friend of mine, an immigrant from zimbabwe, said to me a few years ago. she said, you americans kick around this country like a football. it is not a football. it is an egg. you can drop it and break it. what triggered this book at the level, ical cover the middle east. then i came back to america. but i started to feel was we were becoming like sunnis in shiite. become like that? i don't want my kid to marry one of them, a democrat or republican. we are becoming sunnis and shiites. we are becoming tribal lysed. that is why the book ends with
this -- communities, communities that build pluralism and tolerance. you get people to work together. there is this amazing bipartisan coalition helping govern the state of minnesota and a progressive way. their simple is a dining room table -- symbol is a dining room gathersere everyone around. i table we all gather around and has no sides. we are becoming so tribal ized. if you are like me, a congenital optimist, can't we figure out a way to bridge these gaps, i wrote this book as basically a how to for how to bring the country together also. charlie: the legacy of barack obama? tom: you know, --
charlie: he wanted to give it away from the middle east. to latin america, africa and asia. it is so hard to talk about his legacy, unconnected to the legacy of mitch mcconnell. the republicans who dedicated themselves to making him fail. i am sorry, they did not say you are our only president, we don't want you to fail. i'm not going to blame it all on them every he also had his issues in terms of reaching out to people. they bear a lot of blame. charlie: even some of trumps people including obama, hillary clinton, have said, we are not going to do to you what you did to us. we ou and opportunity. an opportunity. say we go himoo, a chance.
the obamacare is going to be a big issue. he was right in his instinct to say, the middle east today is contorted by the u.s. iranian cold war. let's see if we can diffuse that. i think the book is open on that. my wifehink of obama, was for a long time a chairman -- the obama's came. came to school to visit. there was a picture taken by the white house photographer. it was a little black girl with her arms around michelle obama's legs. she was a tiny little thing. she didn't even come up to her waist. all you saw were her arms. i saw that picture and i said to myself, who of us can know what it means to a little african american girl to have michelle
obama as her first lady? that is part of his legacy, too. book,e: thank you, the just think about this. from beirut to jerusalem in 1989. "the lexus and the all treat" in 1999. 2005.orld is flat in 2016, "thank you for being late." think you for coming to this table. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪
charlie: we conclude this evening with the consideration potentialushner's role in a trump administration. he is married to his daughter in daughter -- trump's uvanka. ivanka. turning me now is emily jane fox from managing -- vanity fair and jonathan mahler. tell me what he has brought. emily: i think of jerod like
donald values loyalty. he offers someone who has ideas, who has a vision. who works tirelessly. at the end of the day, who he knows has his back. has earned he his ears so quickly and successfully. jonathan: that is the key point to me. all the other advisors have their own constituencies, people they are looking out for. is all about donald. he is there to protect donald. charlie: my impression is, and you can correct me, it is the idea that he has been there with an agenda other than donald trump, no personal agenda. what he has done is obviously had good judgment. donald trump is all about winning. somebody had to be contributing and adding value to what he was
doing. that is right.nk he has somehow found a way to both, by both trusting his own instincts. he has no political experience whatsoever. by trusting his own instincts and listening to donald and a echoing what donald once, he is almost surfing the donald wave. it has worked. he has had a huge role, all very much behind the scenes. charlie: doing no specific areas where he has played a role? he is credited for building up of the digital operation that helped target a voter base. that is a big win in jared's column. what he is doing in the campaign is what he has done in his life
is he has lucked into a situation. andbecause he works hard listens and hires good people, he is able to delegate the my inutua, he is able to find success. charlie: is there any problem with family members working in the white house? jonathan: huge problem. there are anti-nepotism statutes. of president has a lot constitutional authority to do whatever he wants and choose his own advisors. an unresolved question, what sort of role he is going to be allowed to play legally. there could be a legal challenge. this might get fought in the courts. the statute came in 1967 and does apply to in-laws as well. it does apply. the president does have rod,
executive powers. may take an advisory role and not take pay. it may be an informal position. charlie: with bill clinton, you had burdened jordan. emily: you also had hillary clinton. charlie: people who don't have an official position but have enormous influence. jonathan: they have been talking about having him in an official capacity. he won't take a salary. emily: he has been talking to a lawyer about making it a formal position. charlie: the idea which we have talked about, in the chaos that often seems to surround mr. uncertainty, iy have never seen much uncertainty. trump would make a decision based on what they said. has emerged as a
steadying influence. a good example is steve bannon. when steve bannon came under the, jared privately told trump team he was a good guy. bannon'sto defense. donald had made his decision and jared defended the decision. emily: another example, the data access hollywood tapes came out. donald was secluded. was to phase a crowd. he was a little nervous. d, go talk to your voters. ghostly to the people who are going to vote for you anyway. jonathan: don't worry about the other people. he is the one who got
him to go downstairs. he said, there are 2500 people. red said, those are the people who are going to make you president. hasy: there is where jared come out on top. charlie: what do you think of the controversy -- the transition so far? emily: it has been rife with controversy. time, this the same morning we had a conversation with one of the people covering the transition. and it is essentially on track. he is not that far behind. jonathan: he has picked it out. charlie: they had a transition committee. which became upside down. mike pence came head of the
transition in a public way. pushed out two of the transition advisers and that red's doing as well. christie. emily: much has been said about ared's personal relationship with chris christie. charlie: what is he saying about tweeting? donald trump. jared: he tweeted about saturday night live. did not like alec baldwin. this is obviously an ongoing issue during the campaign. him topaign staff wanted stop doing it and he did not. he did for a while. he has taken it back up. by all appearances, he is not going to stop. we could have the sitting president of the u.s. sending
>> with all due respect to donald trump who keeps trying to get ben carson to join the administration, have you considered accepted to request mark carson has interesting theories about the pyramids and storing grain. donald trump upheld his date with a very old gray lady. his off-again, on-again sitdown with the new york times was in doubt after he canceled the interview and calling the newspaper failing, nasty, and,