tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg November 22, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm EST
♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: tom friedman is here. he is a pulitzer prize-winning author. he is a columnist for the new york times. he is known for tackling big ideas and wide-ranging subjects. he has a book out which some are calling his most ambitious yet. imagine that. it is called "thank you for being late." in it he argues today's world is moving faster than ever and will only get faster. i am pleased to have tom friedman at this table. as always. let's start and talk about the book.
tom: it comes from meeting people for breakfast in washington, d.c. every once in a while, somebody will come late. they would say i am really sorry. one day about three years ago, i spontaneously said to my friend peter, i said to him, thank you for being late. because you were late, i have been eavesdropping on their conversations. i have been people-watching the lobby. most importantly, i just connected ideas i have been struggling with for a month. people started to get into it. what they understood, i was giving them to slow down and rethink and reflect. my favorite quote in the opening chapter comes from my friend. he says, when you press the pause button on a computer, it stops. but when you press because you on a human being, it starts. it reflects, re-thinks, r
e-imagines. boy, do we need to do a lot of that. charlie: what stage of acceleration? tom: the book begins with me explaining to my parking garage attendant how to write a column. the first chapter is really about how to write a column. if the world as a data set, this is my algorithm. a news story is meant to inform. i can write about the show and inform. a column is different, it is meant to provoke. it is to produce a reaction. so, how do you do that? i am either in the heating business or the lighting business. i am either stoking an emotion or illuminating something. if i do both, together, then you really got a column. to produce heat and light requires a chemical reaction. you have to combine three compounds. the first is, what is your value set? are you a communist, a capitalist, neoliberal?
what are the values you are trying to promote? second, how do you think the machine works? that is my shorthand for what forces are shaping things. as a columnist i am always carrying on a working theory of how the world works. i am trying to put my value set and push the machine. if i don't know how to push i will either not push or push in the wrong direction. lastly, what have you learned about people and culture? the machine affects real people. stir all those together, bake for 45 minutes and if you do it right, you will produce heat or light. the more i explained this to my parking garage attendant, who is a blogger and wanted to understand this, the more i thought about, what is my value set after all these years? where did it come from? it comes from the town in minnesota where i grew up. how do i think the machine works today and what have i learned about people and culture? i decided that is the book i wanted to write. so, how i think the machine works today, i think we are in
the middle of three accelerations, exponential in many ways, in the three largest forces on the planet, which i call the market, mother nature, and moore's law. that says the speed of microchips will double every 24 months. if you put it on a graph it looks like a hockey six -- st ick. it is a proxy for technology. the market for me is globalization, but not your grandfather's globalization. containers on ships. digital globalization. all the things being digitized and globalized. you put it on a graph, it looks like a hockey stick. other nation, you put it on a graph, it looks like a hockey stick. we are in the middle of three hockey stick accelerations at the same time. the three largest forces on the planet, the market, mother nature, and moore's law. they are not just changing the world, they are reshaping it. they are reshaping politics, geopolitics. they are reshaping the
workplace, ethics, and community. the first part of the book is about these accelerations. the second part is how i think we need to reimagine these different realms. charlie: talking about speeding up, you point to 2007 in your column yesterday. which was, when you think about it, a phenomenal year. tom: so, i really just stumbled on this. i looked around and i realized, what the hell happened in 2007? in 2007, steve jobs came out with the iphone. putting a small handheld computer not only in the hands -- on the way to everyone in the planet. that was just the beginning. facebook in 2007 came out of high schools and universities. it went global. twitter started in 2006 but only went global in 2007. hadoop, the software that no one has ever heard of, created the
foundation for big data by letting people connect millions of computers and have them work as one. the world's biggest software suppository. started in 2007. airbnb started in 2007. the kindle, jeff bezos, came out with the kindle in 2007. google came out with android in 2007. ibm started watson in 2007. i have a graph of the cost of sequencing a human genome. early 2000's, $100 million. then it goes down in a waterfall. what year was that? 2007. intel went off silicon to non-silicon materials. the exponential kept going. it turns out 2007 may be seen in time as one of the greatest technological inflection points ever, and we completely missed
it because of 2008. charlie: because what happened in 2008 was the beginning of the worst recession in a long time. tom: the worst recession since 1929. right when our physical technologies left ahead, and we felt it. it was like on a moving sidewalk that went from five miles an hour to 35,000 hour. -- 35 miles an hour. people felt like the ground was moving under their feet. right when it happened, politics froze. america gave us the tea party. charlie: and it gave us obama in 2008. tom: it gave us two years, then after that, it really froze. the social technologies, when your physical technologies move ahead, new learning and regulating. new social adaptations. new managerial systems. a lot of that got froze and a lot of people got dislocated. charlie: with what consequences? tom: if you think about the people who drove this last
election, we are told white working class. many noncollege educated but some college educated. if you think about the history of the last 50 years, i have a quote, because the back part of the book is about growing up in minnesota, i have a quote from a congressman in minnesota who said in minnesota, in the 1960's and 1970's, if you were an average worker, you needed a plan to fail. we were big industrial economy. so many blue-collar jobs. that sustained the left white educated working class. starting in the 1980's up to the early 2000's, what help these people is the world went global, was a huge expansion of credit. mortgages. everybody's house value rose, or many people who were homeowners. that was a way for them to keep up. and then what happens in 2007, 2008, the home mortgages crash. people lose this equity.
a lot of them from the white working class. at the same time, in 2007, machines start to be able to do incredible things. so, the work they were able to do, suddenly more and more is taken by machines from blue-collar and white people -- white-collar people. all of that happens under obama's presidency and i think it is a big part of this election. those people got hit from two directions. the recession took away the equity they had built up. and suddenly they went to work and there was a robot next to them that seems to be studying their job. all of these things, the acceleration started coming because of the globalization of ideas. they go to the bathroom and there is someone of another gender there. they go to the grocery store and there are more immigrants. if you think of the two things that anchor people in the lives, their community and workplace, both of them got disturbed in the last decade.
and i think this election is partially a reflection of that. charlie: are they right to blame globalization? is certainlyation a part of it. charlie: even the president in europe said we have to think about it and think about what modifications are necessary with respect to globalization and its impact. tom: i think there is no question about that. we also have to not exaggerate the impact of globalization relative to technology. "the new york times" used to have, we used to have a receptionist in our washington bureau. we do not anymore. we didn't replace her with a mexican, we replaced her with a microchip. technology has been taking some -- so many more jobs than globalization. there was definitely a part of the public hit by the sudden expansion of trade with china. a lot of people also benefited from it as well, let's not forget. but let's look at how all three
accelerations work together. last april, i did a documentary for national geographic. we went to senegal and we followed climate refugees from senegal up through niger and the border of libya trying to get into europe. charlie: what is a climate refugee? tom: big question. question.od these are people -- the whole paris climate agreement was to prevent two degrees centigrade. senegal is already there. they are heading for four degrees. ok? what's happened is climate change has really hammered their agriculture, population growth comes in. now the land, the villages that are the anchor for all of these communities in west africa cannot support the demand. we went villages with no men. all the men are gone, on the road, looking to get to europe.
then we go to niger. every monday, thousands of them together for a caravan and they are coordinated by whatsapp. now they are using the globalization thing. we would come up to them and say -- metaphorically, we will give you a live aid concert in europe. they say, no, we can watch it right here. this is the place i want to live work and my human trafficker as promised to get me there. we haven't seen this refugee problem in europe. but the vast majority are from west africa. they are not from the middle east. these are climate economic refugees. so what happens is they show up in europe and then people say, wait a minute, i don't feel at home. suddenly there are strangers around me. the amount of illegal immigration from latin america and mexico had a similar effect around america.
you have the climate pushing people north, globalization, giving them the tools to come faster and connect. technology meanwhile is taking the job of the guy who was there or he fears it is. you have to see that all three are working together. to me, to go back to your question -- so what is the answer? trump has promised people he is going to take care of them. here i will tell you, and i have worked hard on this question in doing this book, i don't know with the answer is. let me start there with total humility. here is what i learned in doing this book. i don't know what is sufficient to take care of all the white working class, less educated in our country. they are our brothers and sisters and neighbors. so this is a serious question. but i know what is necessary. and i think what is necessary,
you have to be really open. if we are open we are going to get the signals first and be able to adapt. we're going to pick off the best minds to create jobs we have never heard of and at the same time, everyone has got to get more educated. those two things are the only way. i was at a conference with charlie rose last fall. there was a woman at this conference whose job was tagging sharks for twitter. now, who knew there was a job tagging sharks for twitter? you call home from college, mom, i want to tag sharks for twitter. who knew? but if you keep it open, you are going to get those jobs. by the way, she is going to need a massage at the end of the day. she will need maybe somebody to work on her house. the worst thing we can do is close up and tell people, you are going to be ok. you don't have to work harder or learn faster. that, i cannot change.
none of us can change that. charlie: let me talk about other areas, artificial intelligence and the cloud. and how they are relevant to what we're talking about in terms of this in the age of acceleration and how they would change the future. tom: i have a chapter on this. it is a chapter on the workplace. it is called, how we turn ai into ia. how do we turn artificial intelligence into intelligent assistance? also that we can help the average worker compete and drive in the age of acceleration. the example that i give, at&t human resources department. i profile in the book. the way they have been doing it, the ceo begins a year with a radical transparent speech. here is where we are going. here are the skills you are going to need. charlie: these are the companies i'm going to buy. tom: that too, but that is part of the changing at&t. maybe they say, there are 10
skills you are going to need. then they put all their employees on an in-house linked in system. charlie rose, you've got seven of the 10 skills you are going to need. but you are missing three. then they partner with an online university. they got nano degrees for all 10. they say, we will pay you up to $8,500 a year to take these courses for the skills you don't have. on one condition -- you have to take them on your own time. if you say, you don't want to, they have a wonderful severance package. but you will not be working at at&t. so they say it is a new bargain. the bargain is, you can be a lifelong employee but only if you are a lifelong learner. and i think that is the social contract that is coming. charlie: that is the contract of the future. tom: you've got to be a lifelong learner.
if you do take those courses -- you got to do it on your own time. by the other side is you will get the first shot at these jobs. if you do play by the new rules, we will honor our side to make sure you get a shot. i think that is a social contract coming to a neighborhood near you. if you are ready to be a lifelong learner, you can be a lifelong employee. charlie: because you are going to need new skills. tom: and you are going to need them more often. no one is telling people that. that more will be on you. hillary had her way of saying, no problem for you, i will cut your taxes, i will give you free this or that. trump has his thing, i am going to take care of it all. but nobody is having that frank conversation, if you are lifelong learner, you can be a lifelong employee. charlie: they don't quite know how to connect the dots. tom: it just happens to fast.
charlie: supernova? what did you say, after you said, what did you bring to a chess match? a computer? tom: that was a great story out of the book, "the second machine age." they gave a quote from a dutch grand master. he was once asked, what would you bring to a chess match with a computer? he said, a hammer. [laughter] i identify with that. i started -- it would of the ve a chapter, i ha called, just too damn fast. i trace every writing device i had as a journalist. i worked on a typewriter. and a telex. for the heck of it i googled adler typewriter, and what came up, antique typewriter. the device i started on was an antique.
i googled typewriter and it said the typewriter was the main writing device from 1880-1980. i started in 1978. but just think about that. one writing device lasted 100 years. then i traced every device since. when i was in beirut in 1979, the way we wrote our stories, we had to write them three paragraphs at a time on paper, hand them to a telex operator. then they were sent to new york. i contrasted that with, i was on in niger and i did a column. i was leaving that day and we had troubled around niger with the environment minister. he came to the airport very nicely to see us off. i said, i have quoted you in my column today about niger.
we were eight hours ahead or whatever we were. he said, i know, my kids in china already sent it to me. and i thought, holy mackerel. his kids in china read it online. they faxed or emailed it to him before my wife read it. i started on a typewriter. my life, like everyone else's, has accelerated. ♪
tom: sharing economy is going to be a big part of this new economy. what basically happened, i think, is in the early 2000's, we had a price collapse the -- in the price of connectivity. that is because the price of fiber optic cable collapsed. we built too much and we accidentally wired the world. i came along and gave it a name, i said the world is flat. suddenly we were in a world where i could be touched by people who could never touched me before. what happened in 2007 was another price collapse. it was in the price of compute and storage. suddenly we had millions of computers working together. we could store so much stuff and we could analyze it. come up with all these new solutions. when you put those two price collapses together, suddenly
connectivity became fast and free and ubiquitous. becamelving complexity fast and free and invisible. all the things you can do with one touch. think of what it was to get a cab to five years ago. today, uber, one touch. i can rate the guy, see where i am going. all of that complexity was reduced into one touch. when you put those two things together, the world became hyper connected and we could suddenly do so many complex things in a way where the complexity was all made invisible, you had a huge eney release. and it changed three kinds of power. it changed the power of one, we have a president-elect who can sit in his penthouse and tweet at 6:00 in the morning and reach 20 million people directly. no charlie rose, no tom friedman. but isis can do the same thing. it changed the power of machines. machines can think, design, they are cognitive, they can write
poetry. ibm watson recently co-wrote a song that went to number four on itunes. and it changed the power of flow. ideas now flow faster than ever. think how quickly the idea of marriage being between a man and a woman changed. blessedly so. think about how gender rights changed. blessedly so for you and me but for a lot of people, it happened way too fast. charlie: is there a push back to acceleration? tom: that is a really good question. i don't think there is a technological one. i don't think we are going to un-moore moore's law. but what i argue, and this is the last part of the book, is that i believe the proper governing unit in the 21st century is not the nation state. it is not going to be the single family because it is too weak to stand up against gail forces. many are now single-parent also
they are really too weak. it is going to be the healthy community that is close enough to people and their lives, adaptive enough to help them with the lifelong learning. allow more and more people to be connected, protected, and respected. that is what the community really can do. that is what it does at its best. and so, we have talked about this before. if you want to be an optimist about america today, stand on your head. the country looks like so much better from the bottom up than the top down. you go to raleigh-durham, austin, there are amazing communities. i tell the story of minneapolis in the last part of the book. where diverse people are living together, they are living together with fewer right-left issues. much more bipartisan politics. they are solving their problems. education of the workplace. amazing stuff happening at the community level. my friend says, nothing has to
be invented. whatever you can imagine, social reform, economic reform, there is some community in america already doing it. it just needs to be scaled. charlie: you are an optimist. this is an optimist's guide. two thriving in the age of exhilaration -- acceleration. it is essentially because of what? tom: i tell the story of my community. the last few chapters, the penultimate one is called always looking for minnesota. i grew up in this little suburb outside minneapolis. basically the story of my family is in the 1940's and 1950's, the jews in minneapolis lived in the north side together with the blacks. there was a lot of anti-semitism. in the mid-1950's, the vast majority of the jews moved at once like an exit this, including my parents, from the
north side to one suburb. st. louis park. which of the time, was 100% protestant catholic and mostly scandinavian. overnight this suburb goes from 100% protestant catholic scandinavian to 20% jewish. babynland and israel had a it would be st. louis park. [laughter] overnight, you get this explosion of sort of a wonderful sort of scandinavian pluralistic ethic and all this jewish neuroses. and i tell the story of our suburb because i grew up in the same suburb at the same time as the coen brothers, al franken, alan wiseman. we all grew up in the same basic area at the same time. a lot of us went to the same hebrew school. the cohen brothers movie "a serious man" is about our hebrew
school. and we all kind of went out into the world. we saw pluralism work, we saw inclusion work. but this was white judeo christians. while we had to work at it, we built a great community, it was a lot easier. then i come back, in the later. i go back to my high school. now it is 50% white protestant catholic. 10% hispanic, 10% jewish, 30% somalia and african american. they serve halal meals. the inclusion challenge is deeper. how are they doing? they are doing amazingly well. they have issues. we have seen police shootings. my friend says, whenever anyone asks him, are you an optimist or pessimist, i am neither. they are two forms of fatalism. i believe in applied hope.
that is what i believe in, charlie. that is not optimism. i go back to minneapolis and i see a lot of people applying hope. that is why the book does and, it does have a theme song. it is by brandi carlisle. a wonderful country singer. i did joke, if i could only by the song so the book would open the song, the main refrain of this song is, i wrapped your love around me but i was never afraid it would die you can dance in a hurricane but only if you are standing in the eye. trump and others are selling a wall to the hurricane. the eye is the healthy community. i am not with the wall people, i am with the eye people. charlie: you said, i am lucky to have a group of friends who have been with me on the journey.
helping me think through ideas. this book is dedicated to them. you list a whole group of people. michael mandelbaum, many. we just went through an election. donald trump, to the surprise of many and i think you, was elected. the polls were wrong. pundits were wrong. donald trump would say, people were right. you called it a moral 9/11.
what you mean? tom: we overlooked enormous abuses, we as a society to elect him. we overlooked decent behavior. we overlooked a man who spoke about our brothers and sisters in bio ways, not to mention our women. we overlooked enormous indecent behavior. he settled a suit for fraud at the university supposedly dedicated to the people who voted for him. we overlooked a lot. charlie: we overlooked -- tom: i am saying the society was ready to overlook enormous -- charlie: but i am so, angry, letdown. i'm going to take a chance. i know this is a flawed man. tom: that is what i meant.
we are ready to overlook enormous flaws, like we have never done before as a country. that is what i meant. i never predicted he would win, but i did not predict he was going to lose either. i covered him every day as a real possibility. i don't know what is going to happen. i wish him well, i wish the country well. the country has chosen. it we will only have one president, he is going to be president for four years. i am not going to do what republicans did with obama and root for him to fail. my posture is what i call principled engagement. i'm not here to forgive and forget. things were said and done. peop are raw, i think he needs to engage that.
if he comes out on the right place in climate, i will be applauding. if he does not, i will be a principled opponent. charlie: what do you make of him so far? decisions he is making have to do with personnel. tom: he has appointed people, steve bannon. i don't know this person. some people say he is a decent guy. other people point to things he has written and has overseen, said by his ex-wife that are chilling. in terms of the racist and anti-semitic quality of him. i don't know these people. i know mike flynn a little bit. i knew him from the field. i don't know this mike flynn. at the same time, jeff sessions, everything i read about him sets
off red lights to me about things he has said in the past. i am waiting for him to fill out his cabinet. i can see a guy saying, i have to feed my base but then i'm going to appoint mitt romney. i think that would be a very good choice for donald trump. who knows who he will appoint at defense or treasury. it looks like a real possibility. also a decent guy. what worries me is this. in the age of accelerations, when the world was slower, you were growing up in north carolina, if we had a governor or mayor who got off track, you were only going five miles per hour. we could get back on track. the world accelerates, small errors in navigation have huge
consequences. if we get off track, on climate for instance, education, all these other issues, getting back on track could be painful. leadership always matters. in matters even more now. small errors in navigation can have huge compounding effects. charlie: with respect to foreign policy, there is isis. there is north korea. there is china, there is russia. he is prepared, he says, certainly not to support trade agreements. he wants to renegotiate. tom: let me tell you what i argue any book are the foreign-policy challenges of the next president. i begin by saying, if the president elect call you and says, i would like you to be
secretary of state, say, i had my heart set on agriculture. i think running foreign-policy is going to be hell on wheels. why? you have to manage four balances of power. one of the traditional one, america and russia, china. what are the new ones? the first is the balance of power between coherent and incoherent states. we have states collapsing, teetering on the edge. during the cold war, it was a wonderful time to be a weak state. you had superpowers throwing money at you competing. they would give you foreign aid. build your army. populations were smaller. lots of young people. climate change was moderate. china was not in the wto and
could not take low-wage labor. those advantages are gone. now, there is no superpower that wants to touch you. climate change is hammering you. populations are bigger and there are more older people to take care of. china is in the wto. i tell the story, i am in egypt for tahir square. i go home. i am in the egyptian souvenir shop. i have to bring something home. what do they have? pyramid ashtrays. they have a stuffed camel, if you squeeze its hump, it honks. i buy it. on the bottom, it says, made in china. you are the lowest wage country in the eastern mediterranean and they can make a cheaper camel in china.
all of these accelerations are hammering these countries. they are built on slabs of cement with no foundation. accelerations are like a tornado going through a trailer park. they are creating disorder. what you see in europe, in that part of the world, the divide between the world of order and disorder. the mediterranean is the dividing line. tens of thousands of people are trying to get out of the world of disorder. that is one balance you have to manage. now you have to manage the allen's between makers and breakers. if you want to make something, you were born in the right time. when it is good for makers, it is great for breakers. it is a great time to the isis and a 3-d printer expert.
the last balance is integration. when the world gets this interdependent, your friends can kill you faster than your enemies. if greece goes bankrupt, we will feel that. greece is a nato ally. greece can kill us. your rivals that have fallen have become more dangerous than your rivals rising. if china takes more islands in the south china sea, i really the south china sea, i really don't care. if the stock market else down, everyone here will feel it. russia, putin., whatever qs mucking around, but what if he collapses? they still thousands of world nuclear scientists and weapons? our rivals falling are more dangerous than rivals rising. managing weakness, that is so
much more difficult. managing strength, that is easy. managing weakness is hell on wheels. charlie: we should take a responsibility making sure russia does not collapse? tom: at the same time, incurs them too much and they take a bite out of ukraine. managing these balances are so complicated. his trump up to it? i'm certainly not going to say no. all i'm saying is, it is much harder than before. charlie: so we have got technology like no one else, a military like no one else. an economy like no one else. universities like no one else. we have all these things. so what could go wrong? obama said, our politics could
go wrong. in the end, the biggest challenge to a america right now is three or four square miles in washington dc. so how do we fix our politics? tom: my election night column begin with a story that a friend of mine, an immigrant from zimbabwe, said to me a few years ago. she said, you americans kick around this country like a football. it is not a football. it is an egg. you can drop it and break it. what triggered this book at the metaphysical level, i cover the middle east. then i came back to america. but i started to feel was we were becoming like sunnis in shiite. when did we become like that? i don't want my kid to marry one of them, a democrat or republican. we are becoming sunnis and shiites. we are becoming tribalized. that is why the book ends with
communities, communities that build pluralism and tolerance. you get people to work together. there is this amazing bipartisan coalition helping govern the state of minnesota and a progressive way. their simple is a dining room table -- symbol is a dining room table where everyone gathers around. i table we all gather around and has no sides. we are becoming so tribalized. if you are like me, a congenital optimist, can't we figure out a way to bridge these gaps, i wrote this book as basically a how to for how to bring the country together also. charlie: the legacy of barack obama? tom: you know -- charlie: he wanted to give it
away from the middle east. to latin america, africa and asia. tom: it is so hard to talk about his legacy, unconnected to the legacy of mitch mcconnell. the republicans who dedicated themselves to making him fail. i am sorry, they did not say you are our only president, we don't want you to fail. i'm not going to blame it all on them every he also had his issues in terms of reaching out to people. they bear a lot of blame. charlie: even some of trumps people including obama, hillary clinton, have said, we are not going to do to you what you did to us. we owe you an opportunity. republicans, too, say we go him a chance. tom: always the obamacare is
going to be a big issue. he was right in his instinct to say, the middle east today is contorted by the u.s. iranian cold war. let's see if we can diffuse that. i think the book is open on that. when i think of obama, my wife was for a long time a chairman -- the obamas came. came to school to visit. there was a picture taken by the white house photographer. it was a little black girl with her arms around michelle obama's legs. she was a tiny little thing. she didn't even come up to her waist. all you saw were her arms. i saw that picture and i said to myself, who of us can know what it means to a little african american girl to have michelle obama as her first lady?
charlie: we conclude this evening with the consideration of jared kushner's potential role in a trump administration. he is married to trump's daughter ivanka. joining me now is emily jane fox from vanity fair and jonathan mahler. tell me what he has brought. emily: i think jared like donald values loyalty. he offers someone who has ideas, who has a vision. who works tirelessly. at the end of the day, who he knows has his back.
that is why he has earned his ears so quickly and successfully. jonathan: that is the key point to me. all the other advisors have their own constituencies, people they are looking out for. jared is all about donald. he is there to protect donald. charlie: my impression is, and you can correct me, it is the idea that he has been there with an agenda other than donald trump, no personal agenda. what he has done is obviously had good judgment. donald trump is all about winning. somebody had to be contributing
and adding value to what he was doing. jonathan: i think that is right. he has somehow found a way to both, by both trusting his own instincts. he has no political experience whatsoever. by trusting his own instincts and listening to donald and echoing what donald once, he is almost surfing the donald wave. it has worked. he has had a huge role, all very much behind the scenes. charlie: doing no specific areas where he has played a role? emily: he is credited for building up of the digital operation that helped target a voter base. that is a big win in jared's column. what he is doing in the campaign is what he has done in his life is he has lucked into a situation. and because he works hard and listens and hires good people, he is able to delegate the
minutua, he is able to find success. charlie: is there any problem with family members working in the white house? jonathan: huge problem. there are anti-nepotism statutes. the president has a lot of constitutional authority to do whatever he wants and choose his own advisors. this is an unresolved question, what sort of role he is going to be allowed to play legally. there could be a legal challenge. this might get fought in the courts. emily: the statute came in 1967 and does apply to in-laws as well. it does apply. the president does have rod, executive powers. jared may take an advisory role
and not take pay. it may be an informal position. charlie: with bill clinton, you had burdened jordan. emily: you also had hillary clinton. charlie: people who don't have an official position but have enormous influence. jonathan: they have been talking about having him in an official capacity. he won't take a salary. emily: he has been talking to a lawyer about making it a formal position. charlie: the idea which we have talked about, in the chaos that often seems to surround mr. trump, the daily uncertainty, i have never seen much uncertainty. trump would make a decision based on what they said. mr. kushner has emerged as a steadying influence.
jonathan: a good example is steve bannon. when steve bannon came under fire, jared privately told the trump team he was a good guy. he came to bannon's defense. donald had made his decision and jared defended the decision. emily: another example, the data access hollywood tapes came out. donald was secluded. donald was to phase a crowd. he was a little nervous. jared said, go talk to your voters. ghostly to the people who are going to vote for you anyway. jonathan: don't worry about the other people. charlie: he is the one who got him to go downstairs. jonathan: he said, there are
2500 people. jared said, those are the people who are going to make you president. emily: there is where jared has come out on top. charlie: what do you think of the transition so far? emily: it has been rife with controversy. charlie: at the same time, this morning we had a conversation with one of the people covering the transition. and it is essentially on track. he is not that far behind. jonathan: he has picked it out. charlie: they had a transition committee. which became upside down. mike pence came head of the transition in a public way. jonathan: they pushed out two of the transition advisers and that was jared's doing as well. christie. emily: much has been said about jared's personal relationship with chris christie.
charlie: what is he saying about tweeting? donald trump. jared: he tweeted about saturday night live. did not like alec baldwin. i mean, this is obviously an ongoing issue during the campaign. his campaign staff wanted him to stop doing it and he did not. he did for a while. he has taken it back up. by all appearances, he is not going to stop. we could have the sitting president of the u.s. sending out tweets at 2:00 in the morning lashing out at people or weighing in on something.